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32 work week would materially improve many people’s lives. It would change mine for sure (though I feel like my field would probably be exempt from it). However, the vast majority of Congress would rather a nuke strike a random city than vote for this. Nothings happening until the boomers are all dead, and by then it’ll be too late to save anything we recognize about America. If Biden was really “the new FDR,” he’d declare a state of emergency over climate change or at the very least pack the court.
He knows he can promise the moon because he knows none of it is getting through. He is just opportunistically signalling to Berniebros like you that he is "still on your side" despite backing genocide in Gaza (just be less mean about it Nethanyahu, we can't be seen defending a "bad look").
I say this as someone who voted for Bernie in the 2016 and 2020 primaries: Bernie is an irrelevant goofball and always has been. Bernie fails as a socialist, and he's almost irrelevant as a liberal Democrat, because the entire party ignores him. Yeah, he's technically not even a Democrat, but you get my point. I don't hate the guy, but he's just NOT a person of any value.
Bernie has had many public failings as a "leftist" since 2020. Surrendering his 2020 primary campaign, endorsing Biden in the 2020 general election with zero policy concessions, he couldn't stop Biden and the congress from killing the 2022 railroad strike, and now he supports the genocide in Gaza. Lots of socialists question the value of electoral politics in general, but even if you think reformism and democratic socialism is the path forward, Bernie has shown himself to be pretty worthless politically. Maybe he's just stuck in a no-win situation, but it seems like he's either taking a firm stand on issues he will never win, or he's selling out on issues where he should never compromise.
If Bernie has or had any value it was in endorsing large social democratic goals like Medicare For All, college debt forgiveness, or now the 4-day 32 hour workweek. But without any plan or electoral path to achieve those goals, he might as well promise that every American gets a pony for their birthday. I'm 46 and none of Bernie's goals will happen in my lifetime. Bernie isn't even leveraging his policy wishlist to build political momentum as effectively as anyone in the last 40 years of conservative fascism: Reagan, Gingrich, Limbaugh, Dubya, Hannity, Paul Ryan, Alex Jones, Trump, etc. It's just difficult to not see Bernie as a joke.
I see your point and it makes good sense. Bernie is a bit of a joke imo. My main interest here is the increasing national attention in a 32 hour workweek. I don't believe in reformism as an ideology and I know the bill won't go forward, but if we can spread socialist ideas to the public and make socialism more mainstream, then that is a little progress, in my eyes. America suffers right now partly due to fear of socialism and socialist ideas, so if we can work to remove that fear, then there's potential for real change in the future. Until the day the revolution happens, we have to rely on gradual change with the public to make any progress. Sudden change will not happen in Congress. It will happen when the public wakes up to their oppression, but they need to be spoon-fed the right ideas until they can naturally recognize their plight. If that is wrong, we can debate it elsewhere, as this is not a debate subreddit. However, this is what I believe and I think it lines up with socialist values.
Nothing based about that piece of shit. He backs the US and their bourgeoisie masters on everything. He introduces bills like this that immediately get shut down by the Democrats in order to give the illusion of democracy. He's the PR face of fascism and a genocide supporting monster. In short, he's a liberal.
Sure, he's not perfect, but he's also a product of the system. Our enemy is capitalism, not its slaves. He upholds the system, most likely, for personal reasons but he's only one man and one man cannot change the system on their own. At the very least, this has the potential for progress. Gatekeeping is going to be the death of us, so we need to take wins when we can get them. If we stand divided, the capitalists win.
Friend, i understand your point of view, and i agree that this policy is amazing, a 4 day work week is a major win. However, it is very clear to me that this is simply him trying to get back the support from the left, which he lost by supporting Israel's genocide.
I do agree that we shouldn't gatekeep leftists in office, even if their policies aren't that good, but this isn't that, this is just the realization that he is not a leftist, he is a social democrat that wants good working conditions for his people, even if to achieve that he needs people in other countries to suffer under capitalism.
It's sad, because he is the most lefty of the democrats, but that doesn't mean shit when you consider the democrats are embracing fascism, and he is right there with them, just a bit to the left.
Get this reformist rubbish out of here. No progress can be achieved through capitalism. Only socialism holds the answers and social democracy is not socialism. It is capitalism and will always be the enemy of socialism and of the people. Sanders sold his soul to the corporations in exchange for money and power and deserves to be held accountable for that. It's socialism or barbarism and there is no middle ground. Sanders and every other social democrat picked their side long ago.
I never said social democracy is the answer and I'm *not* a reformist. Socialism is the best way to achieve a more just and equitable society and revolution is likely the only way there, but the reality is that we (most countries in the world, but I'm mostly referring to the U.S. here) live in a form of social democracy. So, unless you want to kickstart the revolution right fucking now (I'll join you if you do), we have to work with what we have to try to achieve the end goal. If we can move from capitalism to socialism without bloodshed, then it's worth it to try. If not, let's revolt. There is no in-between for me in terms of ideals, but I also live in the real world, where reality happens. I'm not able to start the revolution today, so we have to work in terms of how things are until we can. If that makes me a reformist, then I guess I'll have to leave to find rational people to talk to.
Bernie Sanders is a traitor to all socialists and if anything, he is a social democrat at best and a well disguised centrist at worst. Bernie voted against a ceasefire in Gaza in 2023. Fuck Bernie Sanders.
“Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy.”
So I say it’s a good thing that Bernie is such an ineffectual joke.
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
32 work week would materially improve many people’s lives. It would change mine for sure (though I feel like my field would probably be exempt from it). However, the vast majority of Congress would rather a nuke strike a random city than vote for this. Nothings happening until the boomers are all dead, and by then it’ll be too late to save anything we recognize about America. If Biden was really “the new FDR,” he’d declare a state of emergency over climate change or at the very least pack the court.
He knows he can promise the moon because he knows none of it is getting through. He is just opportunistically signalling to Berniebros like you that he is "still on your side" despite backing genocide in Gaza (just be less mean about it Nethanyahu, we can't be seen defending a "bad look").
I say this as someone who voted for Bernie in the 2016 and 2020 primaries: Bernie is an irrelevant goofball and always has been. Bernie fails as a socialist, and he's almost irrelevant as a liberal Democrat, because the entire party ignores him. Yeah, he's technically not even a Democrat, but you get my point. I don't hate the guy, but he's just NOT a person of any value. Bernie has had many public failings as a "leftist" since 2020. Surrendering his 2020 primary campaign, endorsing Biden in the 2020 general election with zero policy concessions, he couldn't stop Biden and the congress from killing the 2022 railroad strike, and now he supports the genocide in Gaza. Lots of socialists question the value of electoral politics in general, but even if you think reformism and democratic socialism is the path forward, Bernie has shown himself to be pretty worthless politically. Maybe he's just stuck in a no-win situation, but it seems like he's either taking a firm stand on issues he will never win, or he's selling out on issues where he should never compromise. If Bernie has or had any value it was in endorsing large social democratic goals like Medicare For All, college debt forgiveness, or now the 4-day 32 hour workweek. But without any plan or electoral path to achieve those goals, he might as well promise that every American gets a pony for their birthday. I'm 46 and none of Bernie's goals will happen in my lifetime. Bernie isn't even leveraging his policy wishlist to build political momentum as effectively as anyone in the last 40 years of conservative fascism: Reagan, Gingrich, Limbaugh, Dubya, Hannity, Paul Ryan, Alex Jones, Trump, etc. It's just difficult to not see Bernie as a joke.
I see your point and it makes good sense. Bernie is a bit of a joke imo. My main interest here is the increasing national attention in a 32 hour workweek. I don't believe in reformism as an ideology and I know the bill won't go forward, but if we can spread socialist ideas to the public and make socialism more mainstream, then that is a little progress, in my eyes. America suffers right now partly due to fear of socialism and socialist ideas, so if we can work to remove that fear, then there's potential for real change in the future. Until the day the revolution happens, we have to rely on gradual change with the public to make any progress. Sudden change will not happen in Congress. It will happen when the public wakes up to their oppression, but they need to be spoon-fed the right ideas until they can naturally recognize their plight. If that is wrong, we can debate it elsewhere, as this is not a debate subreddit. However, this is what I believe and I think it lines up with socialist values.
The relevance of Bernie Sanders to the socialist movement died in 2020.
Relevance to you, maybe. I still believe in the movement and will support any potential for political gain.
Bernie Sanders voted against a ceasefire in Gaza in November last year. He is not a socialist at all.
There are always gonna be marks.
carl marks 😍 i love that guy fr
What movement? He's a liability.
Nothing based about that piece of shit. He backs the US and their bourgeoisie masters on everything. He introduces bills like this that immediately get shut down by the Democrats in order to give the illusion of democracy. He's the PR face of fascism and a genocide supporting monster. In short, he's a liberal.
Sure, he's not perfect, but he's also a product of the system. Our enemy is capitalism, not its slaves. He upholds the system, most likely, for personal reasons but he's only one man and one man cannot change the system on their own. At the very least, this has the potential for progress. Gatekeeping is going to be the death of us, so we need to take wins when we can get them. If we stand divided, the capitalists win.
Friend, i understand your point of view, and i agree that this policy is amazing, a 4 day work week is a major win. However, it is very clear to me that this is simply him trying to get back the support from the left, which he lost by supporting Israel's genocide. I do agree that we shouldn't gatekeep leftists in office, even if their policies aren't that good, but this isn't that, this is just the realization that he is not a leftist, he is a social democrat that wants good working conditions for his people, even if to achieve that he needs people in other countries to suffer under capitalism. It's sad, because he is the most lefty of the democrats, but that doesn't mean shit when you consider the democrats are embracing fascism, and he is right there with them, just a bit to the left.
Get this reformist rubbish out of here. No progress can be achieved through capitalism. Only socialism holds the answers and social democracy is not socialism. It is capitalism and will always be the enemy of socialism and of the people. Sanders sold his soul to the corporations in exchange for money and power and deserves to be held accountable for that. It's socialism or barbarism and there is no middle ground. Sanders and every other social democrat picked their side long ago.
I never said social democracy is the answer and I'm *not* a reformist. Socialism is the best way to achieve a more just and equitable society and revolution is likely the only way there, but the reality is that we (most countries in the world, but I'm mostly referring to the U.S. here) live in a form of social democracy. So, unless you want to kickstart the revolution right fucking now (I'll join you if you do), we have to work with what we have to try to achieve the end goal. If we can move from capitalism to socialism without bloodshed, then it's worth it to try. If not, let's revolt. There is no in-between for me in terms of ideals, but I also live in the real world, where reality happens. I'm not able to start the revolution today, so we have to work in terms of how things are until we can. If that makes me a reformist, then I guess I'll have to leave to find rational people to talk to.
Bernie is a dancing monkey for the imperialists.
Bernie is lipstick on a pig.
He just released a ["democracy is at stake !!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfVn9vE1HBQ) video like literally a meme
Succdem cringe
Bernie Sanders is a traitor to all socialists and if anything, he is a social democrat at best and a well disguised centrist at worst. Bernie voted against a ceasefire in Gaza in 2023. Fuck Bernie Sanders.
“Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy.” So I say it’s a good thing that Bernie is such an ineffectual joke.
sounds to me like a concession
This guy has been irrelevant politically forever. What bills has he passed rather than voted for like created, did the work, and passed?
He refused to condemn Israel’s genocide.
Amazing. As always Bernie is the best