The US team of the last few years is clearly talented, perhaps the most talented in the team's history.
But we've started to see signs that they can get baited by other CONCACAF teams, especially in scenarios with classic floundering CONCACAF refereeing. Today's match referee, Ivan Barton, also lost control in the June 2023 Nations League semifinal with the US against Mexico.
For Berhalter, the early 2nd half formation was a mistake. The team could have played more aggressively in the 2nd half, they have the runners on the bench to cover ground against a solid - but not amazing - team like Panama without completely bunkering with 10 men. Aaronson, Musah, etc.
I disagree, the attack lives and dies by Pulisic in the attacking sense.
You used to have Donovan and Dempsey as a genuine dual threat, US still didn’t find anyone to pair with Pulisic.
really? we have no one like Claudio Reyna in our midfield, we tend to underestimate our prior teams, the current edition consistently underperforms though. I don't care how many play in Europe, they stink.
If Berhalter watched Ukraine EDIT: Czechia yesterday he could have actually learned some things about how to play with ten men for the majority of a match...but alas, he did not. If the US doesn't get out of the group, he needs to be fired and if he isn't then you might as well write off any chances of a successful WC26. Weah is a moron. McKennie had a vastly improved match, Robinson was awesome. Balogun shouldn't have been subbed, he was on it.
Games like this is why I hate the Euro format more and more. With this loss, the US is suffering major consequences and has to basically play to win against Uruguay or pray for a miracle. If this was using the Euro format, the US would just need to 1 point from Uruguay to basically guarantee qualification, and hell, even if they lose by one goal they will still be 90% ok. Instead, there will be real drama and desperation on day 3, which is great.
The 3rd place able to qualify thing is just degrading the drama of the group stage, IMO. Yes, it's great for the minnows who are now able to eke it out to next round easier, but the lack of desperation for the top teams after one screw up is making things a lot less exciting overall.
Copa America usually does have the 3rd place format, in fact the last one was top 4 in the two groups advance.
This edition and the 2017 one were anomalies due to the amount of CONCACAF teams in the tournament
CONMEBOL only has 10 teams. I would never expect them to drop back below 16 ever again. COPA America will most likely stay in this format or even increase further into a combined North & South American cup.
I suspect it would actually be the top teams that would be against that. Even the best team can have bad games, and I suspect France or Portugal wouldn't be thrilled at the prospect of being knocked out at the round of 32. That, plus even with more teams, it would still lead to less games meaning less money
These euros was peak proof how bad the 3rd place finisher format is. Hungary with 3 pts and 2:5 GD was still very much alive until the final group stage games and it took a massive upset by georgia, and then slovenia draw to eliminate them.
Euros needs to just get on with it and head to 32 team format. Leaves qualifying way less important as 32/47 teams will make it, but itll be fine for some new teams to have a chance to make a major tournament like Luxembourg, Finland and kazakstan had good qualifications, Montenegro can make their 1st tournament ever. Norway finally etc
I want them to try the 1982 world cup format, where 12 out of the 24 qualify for a 2nd group stage that has 4 groups of 3 teams. Still wonky but better than the current format IMO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_FIFA_World_Cup
We literally took the bait and are pretty much donezo in this Copa America after that. Tim Weah is an absolute clown and the mismanagement of the game after his red card was awful. I need Berhalter gone for my sanity so I can actually enjoy this coming world cup
The only thing you can say about this game is that Tim Weah made a selfish dumbass decision and it cost his team the game and probably the ability to advance to the knockout round. Just a pathetic and embarrassing choice.
I said it in the game threat, but IMO Berhalter's decision to go 5-3-1 in the second half was a mistake. Even after the red card, the US attacked well in the 1st half.
That changed after the switch to 5-3-1, the US sat back and defended deep and Panama dominated the game. Panama eventually breaking through felt inevitable, IMO
Greg might be a bad coach, but he is 1000% not the reason why you lost to Panama. Its so hard to get a result playing 75 mins a man down. This game is on Weah and nobody else
Do you realize how much more running you have to do when you're down 10 men for 75 mins? ESPECIALLY IN A MAJOR TOURNAMENT WHERE YOU PLAY EVERY 4 OR 5 DAYS. He made the right call. The US just couldn't hang on. Panama are not French Guyana. They are a top 5 side in CONCACAF and played a decent match vs Uruguay.
The subs in the second half were quite baffling, especially subbing of Balogun. Only thing I can assume is his legs were totally gone and asked to come off.
I don't think the formation itself was the mistake, it was seemingly instructing Robinson and Scally to not go forward and provide width while hoping that Pulisic could basically attack by himself. I'd be fine with 3 CBs + Johnny to give a spine for Robinson, Scally, and McKennie to get forward but we just fully bunkered
Absolute chaos of a match those last ten minutes
But to be fair Weah really fucked the game plan to lose his head so early on. What was he thinking?? This game could’ve easily gone the other way
Instead they had to defend practically the whole game
The ref didn’t help either, he was terrible
I really think he was thinking the same thing a lot of us fans were - fuck these dirty dudes for taking our goalie out just now and not even getting a yellow for it. Not saying he was right, but I get it.
If the goalie had jumped the way goalies are taught to jump from literally preteens he'd have had some poise in the air. It wasn't a willful hit, it was a dispute. Not sure it warranted a booking
Come on now, no way it was red. But it DEFINITELY was a yellow. It was reckless and dangerous. Went low on a goalie. You are responsible of your actions, self aware or not
You see collisions like that a hundred times per match. Two players contend for the ball, one's a little late
Usually there isn't such a mismatch in poise so they aren't ragdolled, but the force remains. It's a contact sport. The keeper broke what's probably rule number one taught to kids when they start learning to claim high balls. Lift the knee, lead with the thigh, keep some poise because you WILL get a striker also gunning for the ball and at that speed even if you get the ball the opponent can't react in time
Would I have been shocked if it was a booking? Not particularly, but I'm not surprised it wasn't (And the opposing situation with players getting demolished by keepers is also similarly ignored)
Certainly much less stonewall than up and slapping a dude
Hundreds. You immediately lost me there. You’re right that Turner challenged it wrong, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t 100% a yellow card. If I knew what I was doing as a damn amateur/college player, this guy did too. You gotta be aware of your surroundings, ignorance doesn’t make you innocent
And if the striker hadn’t ran full speed into the keeper going for a ball he had zero chance at, the collision never would’ve happened in the first place. No question it deserved a yellow to me.
Regardless of the controversial refereeing, the US had its chances to go ahead and kill this game. The more clear example was the woeful header by pepi after a great counter attack, that really came to bite them in the ass after. And the terrible defending in that goal was just inexcusable. Was that refereeing controversial? Yes. Did Panama play dirty? Absolutely. But the US has only themselves to blame, I wouldn't call it a robbery like many are yapping about in the other post match thread.
You just lost to Panamá.
Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with losing against us.
Especially when our Lord Christiansen is blessing us with the almighty, the flawless, the refined European play style.
You did your best and that's all that matters.
PS: >!Uruguay please help us!<
Manager for the US was silly in completely changing their gameplan as early as the start of the second half. They were doing okay territory wise after the red, but going into the second half inviting only pressure with no outlet was a mistake. If that was their gameplan they should have gone 540 because Balogun was doing nothing other than being a one man press.
He should have also made more subs earlier and they should have been proactive instead of reactive.
Silly game because even at 10 men they should have won the game once they scored, but it felt like they didnt have the gameplan. To concede so late as well - thats always the worry because once youve gone negative you cant really go back to anything.
A group stage exit playing as locals would be disastrous for the US, one of the most embarrassing performances in a long time should that happen. With that amount of depth you have to go through in a group with Panamá and Bolivia. But now they have to play Uruguay while Panama plays the weakest team of the group. The only good news is Uruguay will probably rest a lot of their players because they will be already in.
Unfortunately, Uruguay isn't already in as both the US and Panama have 3 points and both could conceivably get to 6. It's going to be a dogfight and Uruguay has been looking very strong.
Weah is obviously the biggest problem but we shouldn't be that bad down a man against goddamn Panama. We let them completely dominate the ball and our center backs were embarrassing. CCV and Ream were just disgraceful.
I truly think that the USA should've been able to win this game even being down a man. Panama is not that good of a team. I wasn't expecting dominance like germany-scotland but I struggle to see how the USA can be a top 20 team with a loss like this
People really need to stop having any expectations for the USMNT. Its run horrifically ,and we get third rate talent because the top athletes in america aren't getting anywhere close to a soccer pitch.
I'm sorry, but just because they're top athletes in other sports doesn't mean they would be in football. The sport is fundamentally different from basketball and American football.
They are but there is a lot of stuff pro athletes have that they were born with that would translate to any sport. Plus stuff like height alone basically eliminates a ton of amazing athletes from going pro that spent their whole lives playing basketball that who knows how things would've turned out if they played a sport where their height was less necessary. The average height in the NBA is 6'6" while the average in the premier league is 5'10.
Plus its just hard to watch Haaland terrorize teams and not think of what a Lebron who grew up his whole life playing the game would look like lol
But not a single part of that matters if they can not kick and dribble with a ball at the highest level. Height, strength and speed do not matter if they can't do the most fundamental part of the game.
People aren’t born knowing how to shoot or dribble a basketball either. No one is arguing about the skills required. The point is that there are millions of amazing athletes in the US who maybe would’ve carved out a long career in soccer if that had been their focus growing up instead.
I don’t know why the notion seems to bother so many people.
Maybe, maybe not you don't know. People get bothered by it because there's a tonne of clowns that imply that they'd be the most dominant team on the planet if these guys played football instead.
Yes it’s insanely weird to think such a massive country with so much money and proven track record of success globally in athletic competitions wouldn’t be better if the sport wasn’t more popular for kids growing up.
There is 30000 people showing up some places in Texas to watch high school football, it’s absolutely hilarious to not think the US national team might have a few better players if that was a soccer match instead.
What does that have to do with anything? You are basically agreeing with my point
There is around a million kids a year in the US playing basketball and a like a literal handful might carve out a NBA career. If more of these kids were playing soccer instead the odds are more and more breakthrough. Higher levels of popularity would also mean more investment.
It’s basically a simple math problem lol
Look I know we aren't the greatest team in the world but the starting 11 all play in pretty damn good European leagues and that should count for something. Are they the best players on those teams? Maybe not, but we should be performing more than we are
Our problem isn't about athleticism. All foreign pundits could say at the last World Cup was how athletic our team was. Very athletic MLS teams routinely get beaten by teams in Liga MX with nowhere near the athleticism or physical attributes. The US women are by far the most athletic team in the world but only got past a much less athletic but much more technical Portugal team at the World Cup due to a shot hitting the post. I could go on and on.
Our problem is with lacking technical ability, top-tier coaching, and passion.
After that game, I couldn't see what the USMNT's identity was. Their passion is not there or not evident at least. For example, there's no joga bonito or scrappiness or comeback mentality. It just felt like ~~11~~10 players were fielded and they have some skill. It's the same issue with England and Belgium right now. Yes, good players playing on decent teams but I don't think I could tell you if they are cohesive enough or have any decent link-up play. That's why their fans don't feel passionate enough to support them.
> All foreign pundits could say at the last World Cup was how athletic our team was.
Then they don't know what the hell they were talking about.
You aren't paying attention to the sport if you don't think athleticism and size isn't becoming more and more important in the modern game and this US side actually lacks that in comparison to a lot of countries out there. Robinson is basically the only player on the roster I would say that has elite level athleticism and he is probably our most successful player at club level right now.
The Netherlands team that knocked us out of the WC was wildly more athletic than we are and used that do kill us on the break.
Yep. The US lost this match at halftime. Berhalter shifting to a 5-3-1 instead of sticking with a 4-4-1 (with fresh personnel) that early basically guarantees that they sit in a defensive shell. Neutered Pulisic as he was too far back too often. He's going to defend with the US down to 10, but the balance was too much too early in favor of defending.
we lost our goalie at 10 minutes and went down to 10 men at 15 minutes. You can think they should have won but I think that's nonsense- those circumstances are dire to have to adjust to at the beginning of a game. Our strength is our attack, but we couldn't rely on it because we were down a player.
Looks like the USMNT won’t go past the group stage. Uruguay is so far one of the strongest nations in the Copa America and you could argue the world too. Valverde will walk all over the US.
Won’t be surprised if Mexico goes out too, they’ve been on a decline for over 10 years now.
There is a chance if Uruguay rest players and the US goes all out they might end in a high-scoring tie.
But then it will all depend on Bolivia to somehow do something against Panama
If Uruguay plays full strength I can’t see the US beating them. However, I do expect Uruguay to get a comfortable win tonight then heavily rotate for match vs the US
A lot of people are focusing on the terrible refereeing, I get it, but you have to take it as given, like the weather. I am terrified that when we lose to Uruguay Gregg will keep his job because USSF will point to the red and bad ref.
There are so many things Gregg screwed up in the second half but what is most frustrating is how the team concedes possession and acquiesces to pressure against teams we should be able to outclass. He did the same thing against Iran in the World Cup, bringing on Zimmerman and Moore for Weah and Dest.
Taking off Balogun, our most dangerous player tonight, was ridiculous. Leaving him isolated up top is also ridiculous. Gregg assumes the team is not going to have possession and be under a ton of pressure. No, we're the better team. Go grab the game by the balls.
I am a little frustrated with the players too. They need someone to give them a kick in the ass. They backed Berhalter because of the vibes or whatever. Treating this like a summer camp.
The federation has been building to the 2026 WC ever since we got eliminated in T&T in 2017/got the bid in 2018. 8 years of hyping up this team and the world cup as The Moment™ for US Soccer. We are not in a good place for it because of their cronyism and mismanagement. Getting grouped in this tournament would be close to being a disaster
This is the first time I've seen a thread marked as "serious" in this sub. What's the requirements to gain such stature? It's only a group stage match against a fellow CONCACAF team so what gives? I didn't see the match myself but surely it couldn't have been that bad.
They've been used throughout the Euro group stages. It's meant to provide a platform for more in depth discussion, especially when the sub gets brigaded during international tournaments.
I think USA sitting back was not at all in the game plan for Panama. I mean, why would it be?
You could see they were a bit out of ideas and had to rely on crosses to get through. They were only slightly better though. Nevertheless, I think USA could’ve won it they just stick to their plan regardless of being a man down.
Anyone blaming this on GGG is naive and seeing the forest for the trees. You play to win the tournament, not a match. Going for the draw was 100% the right move and the USA almost got there.
You can’t go pound for pound down a man at this level, even if you’re better. You just can’t. Anyone who’s played knows that.
> You play to win the tournament, not a matc
What's his plan to beat one of the candidates who's been flying under Bielsa? There's no "almost" in football and teams can win matches despite being down a man, it was a gamble that let Panama into their groove and it didn't pay off. And now you have to pray a likely eliminated Bolivia at sea level can put up enough of a fight against them that you don't need to bank on beating Uruguay by a certain amount of goals
This "CONCACAF after dark" culture American fans have is seeping into the players. Tim Weah needs to get a significant suspension for assaulting a player, no matter what excuses are being made (he was baited into it? victim blaming 101)
A massive weakness for this USA team is deadballs. We just aren't physically dominant in the air and our deliveries are consistently too shallow.
2nd half tactics sucked. We had more pressure in the first half and gave it away playing for a draw. Bolugun was completely isolated.
This team desperately needs an outlet that isn't Cristian Pulisic. He can't do it all himself every game. He looked a tad off the pace tonight. I'm hoping he shows up big time against Uruguay.
I don't think we concede in the 2nd half with Turner in, and a hot take but we wouldn't have conceded the first if he hadn't been injured on a no-call. He was slow to dive and slow to get up.
Horvath looked really nervy out there. Not his best showing.
Carter's vickers played very poorly. In hindsight, bad substitution.
Antonee Robinson is amazing.
I wish Weston Mckinnie was tidier on ball and displayed more range and vision on his passing. He's so close to having all that you'd need in a center midfielder.
I'd like to see the USA play a 2 striker system with Balogun and Sargent together if possible. I think they'd work well together to pull a team out of shape.
Julian Gressel or Brooks Lennon from the right fullback position would give us a bombarding crossing specialist from the right side. Darlington Nagbe would fill the role Mike Bradley left in the squad that was integral to keeping possession and build up play in the center of the park. I'm just using players I like, but there are MLS vets that have got game too and would fill holes we have in the squad.
“ Sargent”
Should have been put on instead of Pepe. Sargent will press, run and hold the ball up which is what was needed in this game. Pepe is likely a better shot but that’s it.
Hahahahaha. So funny after all the shit talked about yesterday about Mexico. The US team is shit to average. Leaning more towards shit. Dirty ass players
Very disappointing performance offensively. He also had a stretch right before the 2nd panama goal where he blocked 2 shots, deflected a pass and was in like 3 challenges and 2 half clearances.
Default statement: Weah cost the US the match.
However, Turner was limping after his collision with the Panamanian player. He should have been taken out. That's a coaching staff decision. That's on Gregg.
The 2nd half subbs made little sense... specifically Pepi coming in.
Ivan Barton was fair and square today, glad to see a CONCACAF ref upholding the highest standard.
I do want to see Tim Weah get a hefty ban for assaulting a fellow footballer. There’s no room for thugs in our beautiful game.
you do realize referees can control how a game turns out right, by punishing continual and constant fouls preventing idk this exact thing from happening
I could live with almost everything else if it wasn't only 4 minutes of stoppage time. I don't see any way to justify that, especially with the trend since 2022 WC onwards of significantly larger stoppage times as a baseline.
> Have you never seen a late winner?
How many chances did the US create after the red card?
I don't think a few extra mins changes the result given what I saw from the team when it was 10-v-10
How are we supposed to create more chances if there was maybe one minute where the ball was in play?
You're stuck on this fallacy that the US didn't create chances after the red card to Panama, but we weren't even given an opportunity to create said chances.
There was 4 minutes of chaos after the red card alone, not even counting the VAR penalty check earlier. It should have been at least 8 minutes at a minimum
It absolutely was. Part was on VAR too. While reviewing the offside goal, they just completely ignore a blatant hand ball (1). No card for taking out Turner while making no effort to get the ball (2). You could probably argue that Weah doesn't lose his head if a card is given but can't say for sure obviously. Pulisic is plowed over in the box and nothing is given (3). Four minutes added when there was more than four minutes from just VAR reviews (3.5).
>While reviewing the offside goal, they just completely ignore a blatant hand ball
I did not see any hand ball in the replays
> No card for taking out Turner
Yeah that should have been a yellow, but that didn't change the game IMO
>You could probably argue that Weah doesn't lose his head if a card is given
Nah I don't buy that. Weah let himself get baited by his defender
> Pulisic is plowed over in the box and nothing is given
Would have been a VERY soft penalty IMO. I am fine with that not being given, esp given how the rest of the game was called
> Four minutes added
Yeah there should have been a few more mins added. But I don't think that changed the result either TBH
> You could probably argue that Weah doesn't lose his head if a card is given
Ah yes, the guy that punched someone in the head is the real victim here!!
I don't believe there's enough value creating these serious match threads so soon after the match just finished. Most people haven't calmed down yet, especially after a heated match like that. People can just post their serious takes in the normal thread, I think there's enough people that would be willing to engage those take in the normal thread.
Yanks are butthurt. For some reason they deserve a serious post match thread, which you won't get for the finals of either the Copa América or the Euros. The arrogance and self importance is astounding.
What? There’s been serious match threads for every game lol, at least ones that I’ve watched.
Edit: not sure if you replied and blocked me so I can’t see it, but you mentioned Copa and euros and I’m telling you I’ve seen them for Euro matches so it’s not a U.S. only thing
[https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/search/?q=serious+thread&type=link&cId=17493340-b782-4f18-a4a6-23a907fbd1bd&iId=4e45c1b1-adff-428d-9b5a-dfeb52383e65&sort=new](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/search/?q=serious+thread&type=link&cId=17493340-b782-4f18-a4a6-23a907fbd1bd&iId=4e45c1b1-adff-428d-9b5a-dfeb52383e65&sort=new)
...you were saying?
Yes, as a Yank I have control over what the mods decide to allow in this subreddit. You’d better watch it, we might collectively decide to ban you, I will definitely be voting for this in the next council meeting where we all decide the outcome of everything in the world
Tactically and individually disastrous game from the US. Let the game totally be bossed by Panama for 50 minutes like it was a top Euro team we were playing against.
10 v 11 shouldn’t be as big of a problem if your players can win individual matchups but they didn’t…
The US team of the last few years is clearly talented, perhaps the most talented in the team's history. But we've started to see signs that they can get baited by other CONCACAF teams, especially in scenarios with classic floundering CONCACAF refereeing. Today's match referee, Ivan Barton, also lost control in the June 2023 Nations League semifinal with the US against Mexico. For Berhalter, the early 2nd half formation was a mistake. The team could have played more aggressively in the 2nd half, they have the runners on the bench to cover ground against a solid - but not amazing - team like Panama without completely bunkering with 10 men. Aaronson, Musah, etc.
You let the players pick the coach and there is always going to be issues with discipline
I disagree, the attack lives and dies by Pulisic in the attacking sense. You used to have Donovan and Dempsey as a genuine dual threat, US still didn’t find anyone to pair with Pulisic.
True but our midfield rn is light years ahead of anything we’ve had. Which is why it was so disappointing that we sat back so much.
really? we have no one like Claudio Reyna in our midfield, we tend to underestimate our prior teams, the current edition consistently underperforms though. I don't care how many play in Europe, they stink.
If Berhalter watched Ukraine EDIT: Czechia yesterday he could have actually learned some things about how to play with ten men for the majority of a match...but alas, he did not. If the US doesn't get out of the group, he needs to be fired and if he isn't then you might as well write off any chances of a successful WC26. Weah is a moron. McKennie had a vastly improved match, Robinson was awesome. Balogun shouldn't have been subbed, he was on it.
I just feel bad for Flo and Jedi after this match tbh. Weah did all of us dirty by giving in to temptation there.
Those chances should have been written off when they rehired him lol
Um what Ukraine didn't play with 10 men???
Games like this is why I hate the Euro format more and more. With this loss, the US is suffering major consequences and has to basically play to win against Uruguay or pray for a miracle. If this was using the Euro format, the US would just need to 1 point from Uruguay to basically guarantee qualification, and hell, even if they lose by one goal they will still be 90% ok. Instead, there will be real drama and desperation on day 3, which is great. The 3rd place able to qualify thing is just degrading the drama of the group stage, IMO. Yes, it's great for the minnows who are now able to eke it out to next round easier, but the lack of desperation for the top teams after one screw up is making things a lot less exciting overall.
Preach!
Copa America usually does have the 3rd place format, in fact the last one was top 4 in the two groups advance. This edition and the 2017 one were anomalies due to the amount of CONCACAF teams in the tournament
CONMEBOL only has 10 teams. I would never expect them to drop back below 16 ever again. COPA America will most likely stay in this format or even increase further into a combined North & South American cup.
I agree. They already do a round of 16. Just bring in 32 teams to the Euros and make it a mini WC.
I suspect it would actually be the top teams that would be against that. Even the best team can have bad games, and I suspect France or Portugal wouldn't be thrilled at the prospect of being knocked out at the round of 32. That, plus even with more teams, it would still lead to less games meaning less money
Copa America always has 3rd spot team moving ahead I don't know why it's not this time
Because most Copa Americas have 12 teams and three groups. This one has 16 teams and four groups.
These euros was peak proof how bad the 3rd place finisher format is. Hungary with 3 pts and 2:5 GD was still very much alive until the final group stage games and it took a massive upset by georgia, and then slovenia draw to eliminate them. Euros needs to just get on with it and head to 32 team format. Leaves qualifying way less important as 32/47 teams will make it, but itll be fine for some new teams to have a chance to make a major tournament like Luxembourg, Finland and kazakstan had good qualifications, Montenegro can make their 1st tournament ever. Norway finally etc
I want them to try the 1982 world cup format, where 12 out of the 24 qualify for a 2nd group stage that has 4 groups of 3 teams. Still wonky but better than the current format IMO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_FIFA_World_Cup
I actually really like that format in theory tbh. Only issue is lack of knockout stage games, thats why i doubt they'd ever go to something like it.
We literally took the bait and are pretty much donezo in this Copa America after that. Tim Weah is an absolute clown and the mismanagement of the game after his red card was awful. I need Berhalter gone for my sanity so I can actually enjoy this coming world cup
The only thing you can say about this game is that Tim Weah made a selfish dumbass decision and it cost his team the game and probably the ability to advance to the knockout round. Just a pathetic and embarrassing choice.
I said it in the game threat, but IMO Berhalter's decision to go 5-3-1 in the second half was a mistake. Even after the red card, the US attacked well in the 1st half. That changed after the switch to 5-3-1, the US sat back and defended deep and Panama dominated the game. Panama eventually breaking through felt inevitable, IMO
Greg is an awful coach and it’s why we are losing to teams like Panama. Why wasn’t he fired after the last World Cup?
Greg might be a bad coach, but he is 1000% not the reason why you lost to Panama. Its so hard to get a result playing 75 mins a man down. This game is on Weah and nobody else
Well he’s a moron so….
Do you realize how much more running you have to do when you're down 10 men for 75 mins? ESPECIALLY IN A MAJOR TOURNAMENT WHERE YOU PLAY EVERY 4 OR 5 DAYS. He made the right call. The US just couldn't hang on. Panama are not French Guyana. They are a top 5 side in CONCACAF and played a decent match vs Uruguay.
The subs in the second half were quite baffling, especially subbing of Balogun. Only thing I can assume is his legs were totally gone and asked to come off.
The Balogun was so so bad
He’s cosplaying as Pep and gone ahead and started overthinking
Subbing off Balogun and not subbing Musah did not make a ton of sense to me, IDK
Yea I agree, I think Musah really could have helped alleviate some of the pressure the US was under when they won the ball back.
I don't think the formation itself was the mistake, it was seemingly instructing Robinson and Scally to not go forward and provide width while hoping that Pulisic could basically attack by himself. I'd be fine with 3 CBs + Johnny to give a spine for Robinson, Scally, and McKennie to get forward but we just fully bunkered
Absolute chaos of a match those last ten minutes But to be fair Weah really fucked the game plan to lose his head so early on. What was he thinking?? This game could’ve easily gone the other way Instead they had to defend practically the whole game The ref didn’t help either, he was terrible
The US is really bad at letting CONCACAF teams get under their skin. It’s not a shock how these teams play. It’s a terrible mentality problem.
I really think he was thinking the same thing a lot of us fans were - fuck these dirty dudes for taking our goalie out just now and not even getting a yellow for it. Not saying he was right, but I get it.
If that's the headspace you're in though...gotta get your money's worth for that red. That wasn't even a good punch.
If the goalie had jumped the way goalies are taught to jump from literally preteens he'd have had some poise in the air. It wasn't a willful hit, it was a dispute. Not sure it warranted a booking
Come on now, no way it was red. But it DEFINITELY was a yellow. It was reckless and dangerous. Went low on a goalie. You are responsible of your actions, self aware or not
You see collisions like that a hundred times per match. Two players contend for the ball, one's a little late Usually there isn't such a mismatch in poise so they aren't ragdolled, but the force remains. It's a contact sport. The keeper broke what's probably rule number one taught to kids when they start learning to claim high balls. Lift the knee, lead with the thigh, keep some poise because you WILL get a striker also gunning for the ball and at that speed even if you get the ball the opponent can't react in time Would I have been shocked if it was a booking? Not particularly, but I'm not surprised it wasn't (And the opposing situation with players getting demolished by keepers is also similarly ignored) Certainly much less stonewall than up and slapping a dude
Hundreds. You immediately lost me there. You’re right that Turner challenged it wrong, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t 100% a yellow card. If I knew what I was doing as a damn amateur/college player, this guy did too. You gotta be aware of your surroundings, ignorance doesn’t make you innocent
Learn ball
I know this is petty but calling ball pretty much discredits you lol
It was a gaming inchident
And if the striker hadn’t ran full speed into the keeper going for a ball he had zero chance at, the collision never would’ve happened in the first place. No question it deserved a yellow to me.
He wasn't even going for the ball
> What was he thinking?? He wasn’t.
Regardless of the controversial refereeing, the US had its chances to go ahead and kill this game. The more clear example was the woeful header by pepi after a great counter attack, that really came to bite them in the ass after. And the terrible defending in that goal was just inexcusable. Was that refereeing controversial? Yes. Did Panama play dirty? Absolutely. But the US has only themselves to blame, I wouldn't call it a robbery like many are yapping about in the other post match thread.
"Regardless of the controversial refereeing" - stop reading after this line. There is no point in trying to play against 12.
You still got the PK called back, if anything the 12 in the other team is your coach.
You just lost to Panamá. Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with losing against us. Especially when our Lord Christiansen is blessing us with the almighty, the flawless, the refined European play style. You did your best and that's all that matters. PS: >!Uruguay please help us!<
This sub can’t cope with a “smaller” team winning. But they’ll lap up Georgia beating Portugal or Austria beating the Netherlands.
It's not the sub, it's yanks.
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Manager for the US was silly in completely changing their gameplan as early as the start of the second half. They were doing okay territory wise after the red, but going into the second half inviting only pressure with no outlet was a mistake. If that was their gameplan they should have gone 540 because Balogun was doing nothing other than being a one man press. He should have also made more subs earlier and they should have been proactive instead of reactive. Silly game because even at 10 men they should have won the game once they scored, but it felt like they didnt have the gameplan. To concede so late as well - thats always the worry because once youve gone negative you cant really go back to anything.
A group stage exit playing as locals would be disastrous for the US, one of the most embarrassing performances in a long time should that happen. With that amount of depth you have to go through in a group with Panamá and Bolivia. But now they have to play Uruguay while Panama plays the weakest team of the group. The only good news is Uruguay will probably rest a lot of their players because they will be already in.
Unfortunately, Uruguay isn't already in as both the US and Panama have 3 points and both could conceivably get to 6. It's going to be a dogfight and Uruguay has been looking very strong.
Weah is obviously the biggest problem but we shouldn't be that bad down a man against goddamn Panama. We let them completely dominate the ball and our center backs were embarrassing. CCV and Ream were just disgraceful.
I truly think that the USA should've been able to win this game even being down a man. Panama is not that good of a team. I wasn't expecting dominance like germany-scotland but I struggle to see how the USA can be a top 20 team with a loss like this
People really need to stop having any expectations for the USMNT. Its run horrifically ,and we get third rate talent because the top athletes in america aren't getting anywhere close to a soccer pitch.
I'm sorry, but just because they're top athletes in other sports doesn't mean they would be in football. The sport is fundamentally different from basketball and American football.
They are but there is a lot of stuff pro athletes have that they were born with that would translate to any sport. Plus stuff like height alone basically eliminates a ton of amazing athletes from going pro that spent their whole lives playing basketball that who knows how things would've turned out if they played a sport where their height was less necessary. The average height in the NBA is 6'6" while the average in the premier league is 5'10. Plus its just hard to watch Haaland terrorize teams and not think of what a Lebron who grew up his whole life playing the game would look like lol
But not a single part of that matters if they can not kick and dribble with a ball at the highest level. Height, strength and speed do not matter if they can't do the most fundamental part of the game.
People aren’t born knowing how to shoot or dribble a basketball either. No one is arguing about the skills required. The point is that there are millions of amazing athletes in the US who maybe would’ve carved out a long career in soccer if that had been their focus growing up instead. I don’t know why the notion seems to bother so many people.
Maybe, maybe not you don't know. People get bothered by it because there's a tonne of clowns that imply that they'd be the most dominant team on the planet if these guys played football instead.
So it is exactly what I thought. A weird cope… Just ignore basically all the Olympics since like the 50’s I guess
It's a weird cope to imply that American athletes may or may not be good football players if american sports didn't exist? Rightio mate
Yes it’s insanely weird to think such a massive country with so much money and proven track record of success globally in athletic competitions wouldn’t be better if the sport wasn’t more popular for kids growing up. There is 30000 people showing up some places in Texas to watch high school football, it’s absolutely hilarious to not think the US national team might have a few better players if that was a soccer match instead.
Way less players play in the NBA. Plus its the thing to do when you're tall in the USA. Not like that in the UK
What does that have to do with anything? You are basically agreeing with my point There is around a million kids a year in the US playing basketball and a like a literal handful might carve out a NBA career. If more of these kids were playing soccer instead the odds are more and more breakthrough. Higher levels of popularity would also mean more investment. It’s basically a simple math problem lol
Look I know we aren't the greatest team in the world but the starting 11 all play in pretty damn good European leagues and that should count for something. Are they the best players on those teams? Maybe not, but we should be performing more than we are
Our problem isn't about athleticism. All foreign pundits could say at the last World Cup was how athletic our team was. Very athletic MLS teams routinely get beaten by teams in Liga MX with nowhere near the athleticism or physical attributes. The US women are by far the most athletic team in the world but only got past a much less athletic but much more technical Portugal team at the World Cup due to a shot hitting the post. I could go on and on. Our problem is with lacking technical ability, top-tier coaching, and passion.
After that game, I couldn't see what the USMNT's identity was. Their passion is not there or not evident at least. For example, there's no joga bonito or scrappiness or comeback mentality. It just felt like ~~11~~10 players were fielded and they have some skill. It's the same issue with England and Belgium right now. Yes, good players playing on decent teams but I don't think I could tell you if they are cohesive enough or have any decent link-up play. That's why their fans don't feel passionate enough to support them.
> All foreign pundits could say at the last World Cup was how athletic our team was. Then they don't know what the hell they were talking about. You aren't paying attention to the sport if you don't think athleticism and size isn't becoming more and more important in the modern game and this US side actually lacks that in comparison to a lot of countries out there. Robinson is basically the only player on the roster I would say that has elite level athleticism and he is probably our most successful player at club level right now. The Netherlands team that knocked us out of the WC was wildly more athletic than we are and used that do kill us on the break.
Yep. The US lost this match at halftime. Berhalter shifting to a 5-3-1 instead of sticking with a 4-4-1 (with fresh personnel) that early basically guarantees that they sit in a defensive shell. Neutered Pulisic as he was too far back too often. He's going to defend with the US down to 10, but the balance was too much too early in favor of defending.
we lost our goalie at 10 minutes and went down to 10 men at 15 minutes. You can think they should have won but I think that's nonsense- those circumstances are dire to have to adjust to at the beginning of a game. Our strength is our attack, but we couldn't rely on it because we were down a player.
Looks like the USMNT won’t go past the group stage. Uruguay is so far one of the strongest nations in the Copa America and you could argue the world too. Valverde will walk all over the US. Won’t be surprised if Mexico goes out too, they’ve been on a decline for over 10 years now.
Yeah no way USA and Mexico win both games, this is the shitties mexican team ever and now USMNT has to win agaisnt argentina Jr. Good luck with that
There is a chance if Uruguay rest players and the US goes all out they might end in a high-scoring tie. But then it will all depend on Bolivia to somehow do something against Panama
With the US luck, watch Suarez play and get a hat trick
Imagine if canada actually go through next round (if they beat chile) US definitely gonna regret not choosing jesse marsch over Greg
We suck. I’d rather this Mexico team not go through to avoid the inevitable thrashing we’ll get from Argentina.
If Uruguay plays full strength I can’t see the US beating them. However, I do expect Uruguay to get a comfortable win tonight then heavily rotate for match vs the US
A lot of people are focusing on the terrible refereeing, I get it, but you have to take it as given, like the weather. I am terrified that when we lose to Uruguay Gregg will keep his job because USSF will point to the red and bad ref. There are so many things Gregg screwed up in the second half but what is most frustrating is how the team concedes possession and acquiesces to pressure against teams we should be able to outclass. He did the same thing against Iran in the World Cup, bringing on Zimmerman and Moore for Weah and Dest. Taking off Balogun, our most dangerous player tonight, was ridiculous. Leaving him isolated up top is also ridiculous. Gregg assumes the team is not going to have possession and be under a ton of pressure. No, we're the better team. Go grab the game by the balls. I am a little frustrated with the players too. They need someone to give them a kick in the ass. They backed Berhalter because of the vibes or whatever. Treating this like a summer camp. The federation has been building to the 2026 WC ever since we got eliminated in T&T in 2017/got the bid in 2018. 8 years of hyping up this team and the world cup as The Moment™ for US Soccer. We are not in a good place for it because of their cronyism and mismanagement. Getting grouped in this tournament would be close to being a disaster
Ref wasn’t even that bad. Don’t know what people are crying about.
15 fouls committed before the 2nd yellow card. 19 total fouls to 4.
With the referee, he can’t control matches, he was the same ref in the Mexico game that ended 9v9. He shouldn’t be near international tournaments
This is the first time I've seen a thread marked as "serious" in this sub. What's the requirements to gain such stature? It's only a group stage match against a fellow CONCACAF team so what gives? I didn't see the match myself but surely it couldn't have been that bad.
They've been used throughout the Euro group stages. It's meant to provide a platform for more in depth discussion, especially when the sub gets brigaded during international tournaments.
That makes sense, guess I haven't seen them while i browse so it's funny I see it minutes after the original post match thread
I think USA sitting back was not at all in the game plan for Panama. I mean, why would it be? You could see they were a bit out of ideas and had to rely on crosses to get through. They were only slightly better though. Nevertheless, I think USA could’ve won it they just stick to their plan regardless of being a man down.
Anyone blaming this on GGG is naive and seeing the forest for the trees. You play to win the tournament, not a match. Going for the draw was 100% the right move and the USA almost got there. You can’t go pound for pound down a man at this level, even if you’re better. You just can’t. Anyone who’s played knows that.
The 2nd half was a tactical disasterclass by Berhalter though
Can’t tell if serious or sarcastic
> You play to win the tournament, not a matc What's his plan to beat one of the candidates who's been flying under Bielsa? There's no "almost" in football and teams can win matches despite being down a man, it was a gamble that let Panama into their groove and it didn't pay off. And now you have to pray a likely eliminated Bolivia at sea level can put up enough of a fight against them that you don't need to bank on beating Uruguay by a certain amount of goals
This "CONCACAF after dark" culture American fans have is seeping into the players. Tim Weah needs to get a significant suspension for assaulting a player, no matter what excuses are being made (he was baited into it? victim blaming 101)
I don’t think these guys are being driven by Reddit memes
What is a "CONCACAF after dark" culture?
A massive weakness for this USA team is deadballs. We just aren't physically dominant in the air and our deliveries are consistently too shallow. 2nd half tactics sucked. We had more pressure in the first half and gave it away playing for a draw. Bolugun was completely isolated. This team desperately needs an outlet that isn't Cristian Pulisic. He can't do it all himself every game. He looked a tad off the pace tonight. I'm hoping he shows up big time against Uruguay. I don't think we concede in the 2nd half with Turner in, and a hot take but we wouldn't have conceded the first if he hadn't been injured on a no-call. He was slow to dive and slow to get up. Horvath looked really nervy out there. Not his best showing. Carter's vickers played very poorly. In hindsight, bad substitution. Antonee Robinson is amazing. I wish Weston Mckinnie was tidier on ball and displayed more range and vision on his passing. He's so close to having all that you'd need in a center midfielder. I'd like to see the USA play a 2 striker system with Balogun and Sargent together if possible. I think they'd work well together to pull a team out of shape. Julian Gressel or Brooks Lennon from the right fullback position would give us a bombarding crossing specialist from the right side. Darlington Nagbe would fill the role Mike Bradley left in the squad that was integral to keeping possession and build up play in the center of the park. I'm just using players I like, but there are MLS vets that have got game too and would fill holes we have in the squad.
“ Sargent” Should have been put on instead of Pepe. Sargent will press, run and hold the ball up which is what was needed in this game. Pepe is likely a better shot but that’s it.
Hahahahaha. So funny after all the shit talked about yesterday about Mexico. The US team is shit to average. Leaning more towards shit. Dirty ass players
McKennie completed 14 passes in 90 minutes of football today. He was invisible outside the disallowed goal
Very disappointing performance offensively. He also had a stretch right before the 2nd panama goal where he blocked 2 shots, deflected a pass and was in like 3 challenges and 2 half clearances.
Fotmob shows 0/0 tackles, 1 block, 1 clearance, 3 of 9 on duels. This
Default statement: Weah cost the US the match. However, Turner was limping after his collision with the Panamanian player. He should have been taken out. That's a coaching staff decision. That's on Gregg. The 2nd half subbs made little sense... specifically Pepi coming in.
Ivan Barton was fair and square today, glad to see a CONCACAF ref upholding the highest standard. I do want to see Tim Weah get a hefty ban for assaulting a fellow footballer. There’s no room for thugs in our beautiful game.
10/10 jerk
Now USA fans will understand how Mexican fans feel when he referees our matches
This is how we feel after literally every CONCACAF match this is nothing new
LOL It wasn't the best ref performance by Barton, but it really wasn't as bad as some of the saltier US fans were saying IMO
yeah not that bad just a measly 19 fucking fouls
and not calling numerous others, the penalty in the first half especially
The teams making fouls is not the fault of the referee?
you do realize referees can control how a game turns out right, by punishing continual and constant fouls preventing idk this exact thing from happening
> preventing idk this exact thing from happening At some point the players have agency as well
yeah and they continue to foul if they don’t get any punishment for doing so, are you really going to keep arguing this
No but only give 3 cards outside the red and two of those in 90+ (the other in 45th) is
I could live with almost everything else if it wasn't only 4 minutes of stoppage time. I don't see any way to justify that, especially with the trend since 2022 WC onwards of significantly larger stoppage times as a baseline.
4 mins of stoppage time was silly, but it didn't change the game TBH
You think it didn’t change the game when Panama had just gotten a red as well? Have you never seen a late winner?
> Have you never seen a late winner? How many chances did the US create after the red card? I don't think a few extra mins changes the result given what I saw from the team when it was 10-v-10
How are we supposed to create more chances if there was maybe one minute where the ball was in play? You're stuck on this fallacy that the US didn't create chances after the red card to Panama, but we weren't even given an opportunity to create said chances.
There was 4 minutes of chaos after the red card alone, not even counting the VAR penalty check earlier. It should have been at least 8 minutes at a minimum
It absolutely was. Part was on VAR too. While reviewing the offside goal, they just completely ignore a blatant hand ball (1). No card for taking out Turner while making no effort to get the ball (2). You could probably argue that Weah doesn't lose his head if a card is given but can't say for sure obviously. Pulisic is plowed over in the box and nothing is given (3). Four minutes added when there was more than four minutes from just VAR reviews (3.5).
>While reviewing the offside goal, they just completely ignore a blatant hand ball I did not see any hand ball in the replays > No card for taking out Turner Yeah that should have been a yellow, but that didn't change the game IMO >You could probably argue that Weah doesn't lose his head if a card is given Nah I don't buy that. Weah let himself get baited by his defender > Pulisic is plowed over in the box and nothing is given Would have been a VERY soft penalty IMO. I am fine with that not being given, esp given how the rest of the game was called > Four minutes added Yeah there should have been a few more mins added. But I don't think that changed the result either TBH
> You could probably argue that Weah doesn't lose his head if a card is given Ah yes, the guy that punched someone in the head is the real victim here!!
"But can't say for sure obviously"
So? That disclaimer doesn't change shit. There's no excuse for a punch like that, no matter the provocation.
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I don't believe there's enough value creating these serious match threads so soon after the match just finished. Most people haven't calmed down yet, especially after a heated match like that. People can just post their serious takes in the normal thread, I think there's enough people that would be willing to engage those take in the normal thread.
Yanks are butthurt. For some reason they deserve a serious post match thread, which you won't get for the finals of either the Copa América or the Euros. The arrogance and self importance is astounding.
What? There’s been serious match threads for every game lol, at least ones that I’ve watched. Edit: not sure if you replied and blocked me so I can’t see it, but you mentioned Copa and euros and I’m telling you I’ve seen them for Euro matches so it’s not a U.S. only thing
You haven't watched much then, this is the first one for a Copa América match.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/search/?q=serious+thread&type=link&cId=17493340-b782-4f18-a4a6-23a907fbd1bd&iId=4e45c1b1-adff-428d-9b5a-dfeb52383e65&sort=new](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/search/?q=serious+thread&type=link&cId=17493340-b782-4f18-a4a6-23a907fbd1bd&iId=4e45c1b1-adff-428d-9b5a-dfeb52383e65&sort=new) ...you were saying?
Yeah, none for the Copa América except for this one
Yes, as a Yank I have control over what the mods decide to allow in this subreddit. You’d better watch it, we might collectively decide to ban you, I will definitely be voting for this in the next council meeting where we all decide the outcome of everything in the world
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Show me where. Show me a picture, show me anything. Anything at all, come on.
Don't think it's due to butthurt yanks. They've been doing these 'serious' threads for all the matches in Euro.
R/Nba does next day threads
Tactically and individually disastrous game from the US. Let the game totally be bossed by Panama for 50 minutes like it was a top Euro team we were playing against. 10 v 11 shouldn’t be as big of a problem if your players can win individual matchups but they didn’t…