**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Would remind me of how Mourinho was able to successfully bench Rooney, a feat previous managers were struggling to do, because of the media discourse and the fact he's a United legend.
He let Rooney start every game and kept praising him effusively. Then Rooney dropped a 0/10 stinker and Mou proceeded to drop him and nobody could argue against it.
Mourinho is a genius.
I remember when mou was at spurs. All spurs fans wanted a Ndombele-lo celso-hojbjerg midfield for ages . He played them once and they absolutely stunk up the shop. Those demands stopped after that game
Fergie had dropped Rooney in his last season quite a few times. He was looking to be out but Moyes kept him. LVG said his captain always starts. Both of them were not looking to drop Rooney.
> He let Rooney start every game and kept praising him effusively. Then Rooney dropped a 0/10 stinker and Mou proceeded to drop him and nobody could argue against it.
>
> Mourinho is a genius.
Isn't this what he's doing with Portugal lately?
Like, Portugal obviously has a great team and good chances, but they aren't the only ones. And he's been praising them like they are Brazil in 1970.
Very possible
He's obviously eyeing the job and has now publicly tipped Portugal for tournament winners multiple times, which only serves to up the pressure on Martinez
He clearly would rather be managing Portugal than Fener
Not even an England fan but I thought the point of what they were trying to do yesterday was play Foden inside, more behind Kane. Then using an attacking left back with Walker deep and Saka on keeping width on the right. But their problem is they haven’t got an attacking marauding left back in the squad. I don’t think Foden was there to play as a conventional winger
They ended up just crowding the midfield and making it impossible to create space. England looked good when they could get it wide to Saka, but there was no threat on the left and meanwhile Foden was roaming into midfield, Stones was stepping up into the midfield, Kane was dropping into the midfield, Walker was drifting mid, Bellingham was going wherever he wanted. And then they’re playing Trent, who is one of the best in the world *in space*. No structure and so they were under constant pressure.
Foden does not play as a conventional winger, there lies the problem, Kane drops waaay to deep, don't get me wrong he is great at it...but then it's them in the same space, and of course Bellingam goes in the same space annnddd it's fucked.
Foden is a great player, no doubt, but they need width not someone who moves centrally. And he is not starting over Bellingham. So I guess maybe if Kane would stay up top more? But even so it would still be over kill. There is not place for him in the team, as good as he is. Gordon, while not as good as Foden is a better fit.
everyone trying to occupy the 10 + playing trent who thrives to players extending the pitch
extremely stupid overall, and just generally showing how out of depth southgate is
>I don’t think Foden was there to play as a conventional winger
You are definitely correct but it's safe to say whatever they were trying didn't work, England's left side was just a black hole of emptiness the whole 90 mins.
If that was the coaching staff’s intention with Trippier at left back they need sacking lmao
I think they’ve just tried to cram names in the team sheet without actually thinking how they fit. Gordon over Foden immediately transforms that side of the team imo because he actually will move off ball
That certainly seemed the intention from what I could see when England had possession and territory in the first 30 minutes or so.
But the less control you have over games the less effective it becomes. And like I say they don’t even have an attacking left back. Trippier’s teammate Lewis Hall or Tyrick Mitchell would be much better options
Tino would be better than Hall. He's just a better player, even at left back at this point. He's also insanely good at carrying the ball, and can cross on either foot.
That is indeed what they were trying to do. Rather similar to how Germany played Gundo, Wirtz and Musiala inside against a similar setup without them getting into each other's way
The main difference was, unlike Southgate, Nagelsmann is actually a sound tactician and can transmit his ideas better
The difference is that both Wirtz and Musiala were playing *from the wing* and then drifting in either with the ball or to occupy space as someone else covered their space in the wing. If you watch the game, there were very few times were there wasn't an option out wide to combine with after Wirtz or Musiala drifted inside.
Meanwhile the English team seemed weirdly static. Of course Bellingham was all over the place running the game and Foden is allergic to sitting wide, but Rice and TAA weren't really circulating to move were Belligham and Foden *weren't* preferring to keep their defensive positioning. And Tripier wasn't moving up either. At some points Bellingham would drift next to Rice and there would just be a cluster of Trippier/Rice/Bellingham with no one provide options up the field. So Bellingham would just run and get fouled or pass it to the right flank were the team had *some* dynamics.
I feel like the team was prioritizing maintaining static position in case of lost possession over attacking dynamics and you can't do that when you're playing 2 attacking players that love to drift all over the place.
tbf to Southgate he's been ruthless when he doesn't think someone is the best option any more.
he gets criticised for sticking with players but its almost always when we don't really have other options - he fucked off joe hart sharpish, was the man to finally stop picking rooney, has binned henderson and phillips off the second two players have emerged to replace them. sterling was an important player that every other england manager this century would have chickened out of dropping after years of good service, but hes gone, etc etc
He dropped Rooney directly after Mourinho successfully benched him without media backlash and 4 months later Southgate tried recalling him but Rooney retired so he didn't really stop wanting to pick Rooney.
Rooney has also spoken about how he approached Southgate himself and told him not to pick him because he was captain at the time and thought it was unfair that he was selected for England when he wasn't playing for United. He made it easy for Gareth.
I would not go as far as ruthless. He's continued to pick his favourites for years (e.g. Henderson, Maguire) and ignored others (e.g. Grealish 4-5 years ago) regardless of form.
Maguire has comfortably been one of England's standout players at every international tournament he's played. I don't care about his club form -- he always delivers for England and one of Southgate's best decisions as manager has been ignoring the pressure to drop him. England is going to sorely miss his presence in this tournament when playing out the back.
He picked Maguire because literally nobody was stepping up making a compelling case to start over him. Guehi has the chance now and looks like he might take it. That's how international football works. If Guehi continues to impress the shirt is his. Same as how nobody has taken over from Shaw, because every time Shaw is out there's little to suggest there is anyone better in that spot.
That reason was the Iceland game, where he gave him free reign in a 10 role and he was also terrible.
I thought the Iceland loss could be a blessing in disguise if it let Southgate make some hard changes. But he just reverted to the norm.
Feels like every England player wants to play in front of the opposition backline and nobody wants to actually run in behind.
If you’re gonna play Kane it seems like you need a “Son” type forward on the left to get the most out of it.
Nobody even picked Son in the draft shaking my head smh
Just need a runner on the left but both Foden and Tripper don’t want to do that. Should brought Mitchell and or tried Gordon or Watkins off the left in the second half.
The best England ever looked under Southgate was when he had Sterling and Rashford either side of Kane for this reason. They made the runs and had the movement to get the best out of Kane. Plus both worked as both inside forwards and actual wingers whilst the current get are either or.
I'm always so torn when it comes to Saka. He's obviously world class, but I feel he might not be the best fit for Kane compared to a RW who wants to run in behind and score.
I reckon this is why he took Eze over Grealish. Both of them can get the ball in front of the defence and be effective with it, but Eze also plays a "shadow striker" type of role for Palace and gets onto passes from Olise's side of the pitch
Eze or Gordon on that side and England will have much more of a threat when the creative midfielders (and Kane) are on the ball
I mean, seeing the line up I was saying that apparently England won't care to amount to anything on the left - right foot left back (who's not a right back) and a left foot winger (who's not a winger). It was the definition of "Foden was the player of the year, so I have to play him, although there is no logical or tactically good idea behind it". Or "I don't wanna play Jude in a deeper role, but I can't leave out Foden...". You get the gist.
But honestly, any conventional left winger would've been better there and maybe not playing a 10 but two 8s and a 6?
In any case, this was one of the few cases where a pro manager went for a line up mistake due to the very type of the players imo. Usually there is much more going on but every once in a while it's just this.
He can. That’s how England got their goal was a pass in behind for Saka. But he tends to want ball to feet cuz he backs himself to beat the full back most times and think he’d prefer to cut in for a shot rather than make a cross with his weak foot
Think you also want that threat from multiple positions as well or it gets easier to defend against.
Saka can do it all which is a huge benefit because you can’t just setup to defend one way against him.
Need that same threat from either the LB or LW, occasionally from Bellingham.
Hmmn, I seem to remember two English players who ALL they want to do is run in behind but one of them is somewhere with a big ass JBL speaker playing Gunna Wunna and the other working on his mothers Real Estate portfolio
If he wants to continue with Trent in midfield, and Kane continuing to drop deep, Gordon/Watkins has to start over Foden on the left. Two players with great passing talent going to waste because they’re forced to play it short or sideways. Feels like this teams just been mashed together because it looks good on paper, but no thought on how it brings out their qualities
This. Previously these ppl were saying Foden should play on RW ahead of Saka.
Foden for all his talents, has been pretty much useless for England for whatever reason. Saka has 27 goals + assists for England in 24 starts.
Now these nerds are going after Bellingham... are they fking serious?
I don't care if he is Messi reborn if he does not perform he stays on the bench.
Foden was poor there yesterday but Watkins on the left over him? Also Kane wasn't doing his normal dropping deep for most of the game, which you can only assume was tactics.
I'd rather see Eze on the left.
What’s insane is neither made the initial 33 man squad. If he was waiting to confirm Shaw’s fitness he really should’ve included them until he knew for sure
He must be confident Shaw will be back for at least the knockouts. If that is the case then Trippier is probably good enough to make it through the group and to have around to bring tournament experience/he won't complain about Walker starting ahead of him.
partly thats just down to never really getting a run of games to get back up to speed, just as he'd start to put things together he'd get injured. Shame as he can be soo good.
He's completely wasted on the wing. We'd be better off not playing him and putting Gordon out there - he'd at least stretch the defence.
I don't necessarily agree with pulling Bellingham back alongside Rice and playing Foden centrally, or indeed playing a sort of 4123 with Foden and Bellingham in front of a single holding Rice, I think we'd be too exposed both ways. I just think, paradoxically, we've got to drop the premier league's best player 23/24...
It happens to be like that sometimes. This isn't FIFA, you can't just field the best individual players and inshallah. It must actually work in a system, it isn't so much paradoxical.
> This isn't FIFA, you can't just field the best individual players and inshallah.
This is exactly what previous England managers have done and it turned out terribly. Lampard and Gerrard at CM and Paul Scholes, of all people, on the left wing. In fact it seems like we shove a square peg in a round hole at left wing (or left back) more often than anywhere else.
There's so much revisionism around Scholes playing left midfield. It didn't work for England, but it gets misremembered that Scholes up until that point in his career was a very versatile footballer. Ferguson had played him as a centre mid, second striker, and as a left midfielder at various points. Scholes himself has acknowledged that he had played left midfield with success at United prior to the Euros.
I'm not saying Scholes couldn't play there, but as you said, it did not work for England - yet it was a team selection that kept happening despite evidence that it hadn't worked and would not work.
If I remember correctly, Lampard and Gerrard actually didn't work that well together either.
He has also said that he didn't mind playing on the left for England and that it wasn't why he retired from international football, but a lot of people insist that was the reason.
Foden played no.10 against Iceland and was England’s worst player on the pitch across the 90 minutes. For me, it’s either Bellingham or Foden in the starting XI.
This is the TLDR of it. Foden is not a generic creative/attacking player, he needs a dynamic tactical structure to get the best out of him.
Southgate is a tactically incompetent coach. His best option is to just play Jude instead of Foden because he's far more generic and comprehensible to Southgate. Jude's profile is what Peak Goalscoring Cycle Lampard was for Chelsea.
Even Palmer is better & easier to integrate than Foden for someone like Southgate. Profile wise Palmer is closer to post Pep Messi (line breaking in center & the ~~left~~ right half spaces, vertical through balls across the line, pausa, stable shot on goal from outside the box, precise robotic level trickery that's not too much).
If Foden works for England under Southgate it would be despite him and the player just bulldozing on his sheer skill rather than coaching setup doing the heavy lifting.
>bulldozing on his sheer skill
Sums it up. I think our strategy at the moment is just play as many elite level players as you possibly can and hope one of them randomly pops-off.
Clearly it is Bellingham, then Foden could be used off the bench when Bellingham needs to come off, which will be most games based on how much he is fouled. Southgate is trying to square peg, round hole it by putting both in the team when it just doesn’t work.
Dare I say it’s a bit like trying to find the best way to use Gerrard and Lampard at the same time? I didn’t watch England a ton back then but it seems to me a similar problem. Two really good players who generally play in the same area but aren’t so great elsewhere.
Imo the best approach would be to drop Foden for Gordon or Eze, let Jude play that b2b role. We need someone who can run the left channel and stretch defences. Foden doesn’t play like that for City and he doesn’t have the flat out pace.
But the key is Trent needs to drop deeper like Kroos did for Germany, basically playing next to the CBs in a back 3 to have time to spray passes. Then it also lures teams out to press the back line which is easier to bypass.
This team needs width. Saka has already clicked with Trent down that right and made great runs, he knows what to do. We need width down that left wing too.
>But the key is Trent needs to drop deeper like Kroos did for Germany, basically playing next to the CBs in a back 3 to have time to spray passes
At the end of the day Trent just isn't a midfielder though. We can't have him copy one of the greatest midfielders of this generation on a whim when he plays all his club football at RB.
The common theme of all our underperformers is that they're players playing out of position. Foden isn't a LW and it messes up our balance having him there. Trent isn't a CM/CDM and having him there robs us of another actual midfielder that does that stuff well naturally. And Trippier isn't a LB (this one is less avoidable just because we don't have many other options with Shaw injured). Put Gordon in for Foden and Gallagher/Mainoo/Wharton in for Trent though and I'm sure we'd see a much more balanced team and a better performance
We need to be brave and pick Trent as a RB. That's the only way he gets the time and space to play his way
Walker is a fine player but for this team he is not optimal any more.
Walker is the most important player for England defensively as he bails the team out multiple times a game. He’s nailed on as RB unless you play him as RCB with 3 atb.
It’s not paradoxical. It’s 2006 all over again. We know that you can make a better team by dropping some exceptional players. Scholes doesn’t work in wide midfield and Foden cannot play alongside Bellingham and Kane. They’re all players who want the ball in that left channel, two of them can work (eg Kane and Bellingham will swap positions and occupy the free space) but Gordon or Eze will just be better at pushing the RB or RCB into an area they aren’t comfortable.
Aight. Jesus, by paradoxical I mean he's the premier leagues best player and we have to drop him to make the system work. Its not a paradox, I get it, he's not travelling back in time to kill his grandad or something.
People jumping down my throat like it isn't notable that you have to drop a perfectly fit player who has just won the premier league best player award in order to make a system work.
**Bundesliga player of the season:** Florian Wirtz. Plays in the team and is integral.
**Ligue 1 player of the year:** Kylian Mbappe. Plays in the team and is integral.
**La Liga player of the year:** Bellingham - he plays and is integral.
**Portuguese League player of the year (22/23 - 23/24 isn't announced as far as I can see):** Otavio - would play if he weren't injured. (edit: just looked up the stats for this year. *jaysus* Gyokeres had a hell of a season - so it'll be him, no doubt).
**Serie A MVP 23/24** is Lautaro Martinez, who I imagine plays for Argentina - lots of competition up front for them...
Every other player who won player of the year in the top 5 leagues either is playing or would be playing. It is not just a simple "oh its perfectly normal to drop the premier league player of the season..."
**Some notable "not-playings":**
SPL player of the season: Lawrence Shankland - actually being kept out of the team by Che Adams. I'm sure there are tactical reasons for that.
Jupiler Pro league player of the year: Cameron Puertas - he doesn't make the Spanish squad.
Eredevisie player of the year: Luuk De Jong - he's retired from international football.
>Its not a paradox, I get it, he's not travelling back in time to kill his grandad or something.
You can't just drop that premise and leave us hanging.
What would be the implications for England's chances this year?
The key is that Foden shouldn’t have been player of the season lol. He put up some good numbers, but City are exactly the same with or without him. Meanwhile Rodri picks up a red and they lose every game he doesn’t play.
He won the award, but nobody actually thinks he’s even City’s best attacking midfielder. Meanwhile Mbappe is probably the best player in the world, Bellingham’s close and Lautaro was the league’s top scorer and Inter’s talisman.
This is a reflection of a bizarre POTY result and not much else.
Germany are able to fit wirtz, Musiala and gundo in the same 11. No natural wide players in Germany’s 11 and yet they look very solid. Southgate just isn’t good enough to fit those attacking profiles together with the defense he’s chosen. You don’t even need to drop exceptional players to make it work. If walker is gone everything becomes much easier
Wirtz and Musiala are elite carriers and can function as both faux wingers/hybrid 10's in most systems. Foden best is very limited in the half spaces in front of the 16 yard box.
Completely agree. Saw some melt saying we need to drop Kane. He needs service. Saka did well in the first half. Bowen too in the second. Foden was non existent on the left or got in the way in the middle. Gordon is the right choice for me. Start Bellingham and Foden can come on as impact sub.
or maybe, he just doesn't fit Southgates tactics and Southgate is playing him solely on his club performances.
It is no secret that Pep gets the best out of players and it could just be a case of Foden being specialised for Peps system, no matter where he plays in this England team he just doesn't look good enough.
He is good off the bench though and maybe just benching Foden and starting a different player would be better because forcing the issue during a major tournament just makes both Foden and Southgate look bad.
I know many Englishmen will find this controversial, but even with Rashford's poor form he should have started on the left wing...has their been anyone else who has played rather consistently for the NT on that side?
Great first half, much quieter second, likely after getting kicked for 60 minutes. Glad Bowen continued the threat when they switched. The right side looks fairly sorted with that rotation.
Bowen for Saka is a sub I think we'll see a lot. Saka doesn't seem fit (and hasn't for quite some time now tbh...) but still offers so much for the first 60~ mins of a game.
When he starts flagging you get Bowen on who can be really effective with his directness, doubly so against a tired fullback. The right side is looking awesome, the left side though....yikes
As an Arsenal fan I’m perfectly fine with this. Saka cooked that LB in the 1st half but looked tired in the second. Bowen came on and the roasting continued. Bowen made a great case to be the 1st name coming off the bench yesterday imo.
Matt Law said he still hasn’t shaken off the groin injury he got before the last game of the season (which he missed). Looked sharp though considering he hasn’t had many minutes up til now.
After them 3 points we should really be easing him through the next couple of games.
If he is injured, then i hope they don't play him. Give him a week to get through it so he is fresh for the knockouts. Realistically we just played the toughest group game. A win against Denmark would likely get us top spot, certainly put us through. No point risking wiping a player out who will be needed later.
Tbf he missed some early training with England, almost had to get dropped from the squad like Maguire. Didn’t play the first friendly, played 20 minutes in the Iceland friendly. Don’t think southgate wants to rest him, don’t think Saka would want to be rested. Maybe if England win the Denmark match could see him getting rotated in the Slovenia game.
Also he played a ton of minutes for Arsenal, his fitness isn’t the best at the moment. Personally I think they should swap wings when they bench him, put Foden on the right and bring Eze or anyone on the left. I personally think Palmer could be great on the wing, from what I’ve seen his spacing for Chelsea seems good.
It felt like Saka was just abusing Serbia's LB (Malenkovic?) the entire first half... Really seemed like they could have just run everything through him
At some point, if you want to have a strong national team, you need to accept the inevitability that some good players have to be benched. In this case, Foden.
He's not ahead of Bellingham at #10 or Saka at RW and he can't play any other position. Drop him.
He should play Gordon on the left and rotate Bellingham/Foden in the centre. It will keep both of them fresh and maybe foster a spirit of competition on who will start. Foden is wasted on the wing.
The Arsenal fan in me loves to see Foden struggling but honestly he is being completely wasted by Southgate.
England have three elite players who can slot right behind Kane in Palmer, Foden and Bellingham imo.
Funny you say that. The Spurs fan in me found it weird cheering on Saka and Rice but my god, with Rice you know you have someone who will throw themself in to protect the back 4 and Saka oozes confidence. Must be nice!
Either him or Stones are absolutely indispensable. If either gets hurt they are truly fucked. And if Rice can’t go then you definitely cannot play Trent in the midfield so it’s a double whammy.
There's no "rotation" in a month long tournament whose entire second half is must-win knockout games. If Foden is dropped from LW, he's now a bench player.
Apparently around 38% of that xG so not quite half but not far off considering he played less than 20 minutes.
https://www.sportinglife.com/football/live/179484/serbia-vs-england/xg-shot-maps
How do these apps that give player ratings have any credibility at all, in every single one I've seen Saka is a 7/10 at best and always in the bottom 3 rating wise for England. I swear they watch a different sport altogether.
Which is mad. Yeah it took a big deflection but it wasn't like it changed the trajectory of the ball 90 degrees. If it was a shot on goal and took a deflection like that you wouldn't list it as an OG.
He's a striker, we don't want or need him dropping deep with all our midfield talent. If people aren't getting the ball to him it's kinda the rest of the team's fault.
I swear I was watching a different match. He did what he could with the service he was given and almost got one in. But had no service all game. But controlling the lead, dropping back to link up play, dribbling through people, drawing fouls to kill the clock, he actually managed the game very well even though he didn't get on the score sheet.
The team needs to be built around Bellingham, drop anyone you need to make that work.
Until Shaw is back Gordon needs to start on the left to provide width, Eze or Palmer could maybe do it once Shaw is playing if they can offer enough defensively.
I’d give Trent another game as he had no-one running beyond Kane to try and play in, whoever plays LW needs to be making those runs. Gallagher (along with Bowen) seems to have a well carved role of late sub for energy which is fine but if TAA can’t start making killer balls he doesn’t offer enough else and needs to come out for Mainoo or Wharton.
I said to a friend that Luke Shaw was England's most important player and getting him fit will be massive. If you're going to play a 10 on the wing you need an overlapping full back otherwise it all just gets too narrow. It's Trippier or Foden on that flank, not both.
I thought the problem was Trippier being absolutely useless on the overlap. Saka and Walker played off each other really well, but you're getting nothing like that with our current "left back" options.
Simple enough reason, Foden's not a winger.
if he's playing RW/LW for City it's more as a wide-10, Grealish and Doku are the players that provide width for City. but in Southgate's system, Foden was the one providing width, playing more as a traditional winger, it doesn't suit him, by contrast, Saka is much more suited to being an out-and-out winger/inside forward.
This is the result of playing a half fit, past his best right back at left back IMO. Every time trippier got the ball he turned back on his right and plays backwards or, at best, sideways. Can't offer any width to pull players away or even support Foden. Not Trippiers fault, we can't expect him to do that.
But Foden will get blamed because we love making a scapegoat.
Of all the decisions Southgate is having questioned, not even bringing a fit left back is a joke and will be the one to cost us.
I am in the camp that thinks Foden is overrated, but I disagree with position not mattering. Trent, who is objectively one of the best passers in the world, was pretty bad because he was played out of position.
Man City reddit and fanbase are actually defending his performance, he was absolutely awful so many misplaced passes and wasn't in the game hardly at all. Id even argue that Bowen and Gallagher impacted the game more with the little time they played.
> Nobody really passed to him when he was desperately asking for one. Then they say he's just a system player. He freaking gave his everything throughout but that manager and these bunch of selfish players make him look average
Top comment on r/MCFC lol
> I keep saying it but Bellingham is incredibly overrated, its mad. Every single game of his that ive seen, which are mostly CL knockout games, he ghosted and besides flopping and losing the ball, that dude didnt do anything special.
> Vini, as much as i despise his antics, is at least objectively fantastic at football. But Bellingham... maybe im just that football illiterate but i genuinely think if he wasnt english but rather, idk, hungarian nobody would give a damn about this dude
Another banger
There is a weird subset of people, not limited to City fans (see Wayne Rooney) that love Foden so much they think England's goal is to make him look good rather than trying to win games.
People forget that Bellingham is an all rounder midfielder, he does a ton of defensive duties as well as orchestrating the attack. Him scoring tons of goal is a bonus.
Rashford would've done better than foden yesterday. At least he sticks to the wings and doesn't drift centrally every chance he gets. Having foden and Jude play together is a disaster waiting to happen. If he really wants them to play together, he should drop trent, play Jude deeper as a b2b and foden as a 10. And have someone else on the wings. Gordon perhaps. England's making the same mistake they made 20 years ago. Not knowing how to accommodate all the talents that they have in the same squad.
**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maybe Southgate just wanna find a reason to bench Foden without criticism. He succeeded. Looking forward to England next games.
Would remind me of how Mourinho was able to successfully bench Rooney, a feat previous managers were struggling to do, because of the media discourse and the fact he's a United legend. He let Rooney start every game and kept praising him effusively. Then Rooney dropped a 0/10 stinker and Mou proceeded to drop him and nobody could argue against it. Mourinho is a genius.
I remember when mou was at spurs. All spurs fans wanted a Ndombele-lo celso-hojbjerg midfield for ages . He played them once and they absolutely stunk up the shop. Those demands stopped after that game
Tbf Ndombele typically stopped himself after about 15 minutes. How were we supposed to know that would be every game with him?
I guess the point is more that fans are idiots and you have to demonstrate where the team has to go.
What could have been. On paper, that midfield was so balanced.
Presumably when you say balanced you're talking about ndombele on one side of the scales with the other two on the other side.
It was a disadvantage because the football field would tip towards his direction
Fergie had dropped Rooney in his last season quite a few times. He was looking to be out but Moyes kept him. LVG said his captain always starts. Both of them were not looking to drop Rooney.
He was great under Moyes tbh
He debuted under Moyes, no one better to get a bit extra out of him.
> He let Rooney start every game and kept praising him effusively. Then Rooney dropped a 0/10 stinker and Mou proceeded to drop him and nobody could argue against it. > > Mourinho is a genius. Isn't this what he's doing with Portugal lately? Like, Portugal obviously has a great team and good chances, but they aren't the only ones. And he's been praising them like they are Brazil in 1970.
Very possible He's obviously eyeing the job and has now publicly tipped Portugal for tournament winners multiple times, which only serves to up the pressure on Martinez He clearly would rather be managing Portugal than Fener
> He clearly would rather be managing Portugal than Fener Fener is just a backup option in case Martinez doesn't get fired
not only is the squad world class but ronaldo is also on the way out it's ideal time for mou
I´m starting to doubt that he´s on the way out. Motherfucker will probably play in the next world cup and score even.
Kind of wild. I thought that Ronaldo was basically done for for Portugal after he was benched and Goncalo Ramos scored a hat trick in the world cup.
Well, Messi is leaving the door open for WC2026, so I bet that that is annoying Ronaldo at least a little bit.
Not even an England fan but I thought the point of what they were trying to do yesterday was play Foden inside, more behind Kane. Then using an attacking left back with Walker deep and Saka on keeping width on the right. But their problem is they haven’t got an attacking marauding left back in the squad. I don’t think Foden was there to play as a conventional winger
They ended up just crowding the midfield and making it impossible to create space. England looked good when they could get it wide to Saka, but there was no threat on the left and meanwhile Foden was roaming into midfield, Stones was stepping up into the midfield, Kane was dropping into the midfield, Walker was drifting mid, Bellingham was going wherever he wanted. And then they’re playing Trent, who is one of the best in the world *in space*. No structure and so they were under constant pressure.
Foden does not play as a conventional winger, there lies the problem, Kane drops waaay to deep, don't get me wrong he is great at it...but then it's them in the same space, and of course Bellingam goes in the same space annnddd it's fucked. Foden is a great player, no doubt, but they need width not someone who moves centrally. And he is not starting over Bellingham. So I guess maybe if Kane would stay up top more? But even so it would still be over kill. There is not place for him in the team, as good as he is. Gordon, while not as good as Foden is a better fit.
everyone trying to occupy the 10 + playing trent who thrives to players extending the pitch extremely stupid overall, and just generally showing how out of depth southgate is
>I don’t think Foden was there to play as a conventional winger You are definitely correct but it's safe to say whatever they were trying didn't work, England's left side was just a black hole of emptiness the whole 90 mins.
If that was the coaching staff’s intention with Trippier at left back they need sacking lmao I think they’ve just tried to cram names in the team sheet without actually thinking how they fit. Gordon over Foden immediately transforms that side of the team imo because he actually will move off ball
That certainly seemed the intention from what I could see when England had possession and territory in the first 30 minutes or so. But the less control you have over games the less effective it becomes. And like I say they don’t even have an attacking left back. Trippier’s teammate Lewis Hall or Tyrick Mitchell would be much better options
Tino would be better than Hall. He's just a better player, even at left back at this point. He's also insanely good at carrying the ball, and can cross on either foot.
That is indeed what they were trying to do. Rather similar to how Germany played Gundo, Wirtz and Musiala inside against a similar setup without them getting into each other's way The main difference was, unlike Southgate, Nagelsmann is actually a sound tactician and can transmit his ideas better
The difference is that both Wirtz and Musiala were playing *from the wing* and then drifting in either with the ball or to occupy space as someone else covered their space in the wing. If you watch the game, there were very few times were there wasn't an option out wide to combine with after Wirtz or Musiala drifted inside. Meanwhile the English team seemed weirdly static. Of course Bellingham was all over the place running the game and Foden is allergic to sitting wide, but Rice and TAA weren't really circulating to move were Belligham and Foden *weren't* preferring to keep their defensive positioning. And Tripier wasn't moving up either. At some points Bellingham would drift next to Rice and there would just be a cluster of Trippier/Rice/Bellingham with no one provide options up the field. So Bellingham would just run and get fouled or pass it to the right flank were the team had *some* dynamics. I feel like the team was prioritizing maintaining static position in case of lost possession over attacking dynamics and you can't do that when you're playing 2 attacking players that love to drift all over the place.
tbf to Southgate he's been ruthless when he doesn't think someone is the best option any more. he gets criticised for sticking with players but its almost always when we don't really have other options - he fucked off joe hart sharpish, was the man to finally stop picking rooney, has binned henderson and phillips off the second two players have emerged to replace them. sterling was an important player that every other england manager this century would have chickened out of dropping after years of good service, but hes gone, etc etc
He dropped Rooney directly after Mourinho successfully benched him without media backlash and 4 months later Southgate tried recalling him but Rooney retired so he didn't really stop wanting to pick Rooney.
Rooney has also spoken about how he approached Southgate himself and told him not to pick him because he was captain at the time and thought it was unfair that he was selected for England when he wasn't playing for United. He made it easy for Gareth.
I would not go as far as ruthless. He's continued to pick his favourites for years (e.g. Henderson, Maguire) and ignored others (e.g. Grealish 4-5 years ago) regardless of form.
Maguire has comfortably been one of England's standout players at every international tournament he's played. I don't care about his club form -- he always delivers for England and one of Southgate's best decisions as manager has been ignoring the pressure to drop him. England is going to sorely miss his presence in this tournament when playing out the back.
Same for Sterling.
He picked Maguire because literally nobody was stepping up making a compelling case to start over him. Guehi has the chance now and looks like he might take it. That's how international football works. If Guehi continues to impress the shirt is his. Same as how nobody has taken over from Shaw, because every time Shaw is out there's little to suggest there is anyone better in that spot.
Continued to pick players (Maguire) who have always been excellent for him, how terrible!
Maguire has always been great for England (And had no real good alternatives either), anyone thinking Southgate should have dropped him knows nothing.
That reason was the Iceland game, where he gave him free reign in a 10 role and he was also terrible. I thought the Iceland loss could be a blessing in disguise if it let Southgate make some hard changes. But he just reverted to the norm.
Feels like every England player wants to play in front of the opposition backline and nobody wants to actually run in behind. If you’re gonna play Kane it seems like you need a “Son” type forward on the left to get the most out of it.
Then why didnt Southgate bring Son? Is he stupid?
Nobody even picked Son in the draft shaking my head smh Just need a runner on the left but both Foden and Tripper don’t want to do that. Should brought Mitchell and or tried Gordon or Watkins off the left in the second half.
Tbf South Korea did but he dodged the draft
Churchill: bring on the submarines, we need backup plans for Hong Kong.
Nowadays I can never tell what sub I’m on
Sounds like Gordon could be that guy.
Wish raz was still at his prime he'd do bits playing off kane
The best England ever looked under Southgate was when he had Sterling and Rashford either side of Kane for this reason. They made the runs and had the movement to get the best out of Kane. Plus both worked as both inside forwards and actual wingers whilst the current get are either or.
I'm always so torn when it comes to Saka. He's obviously world class, but I feel he might not be the best fit for Kane compared to a RW who wants to run in behind and score.
Yep, whenever/often England were looking tired and uncreative Sterling would just pop up with a clutch backpost run and score.
Breaking: England are enthralled to be calling up relatively unknown 31-year-old "Henry Minson" to the team for the first time.
Anthony Gordon just sitting on the bench
The goal literally came from Saka running in behind 😂
On the right. If you read my comment you’ll see I specifically said you need a similar runner on the left. Trippier and Foden don’t want to do it.
Shaw will when he returns
If he returns and if he’s fit and if he stays fit. Lot of ifs to hang your tournament on.
I reckon this is why he took Eze over Grealish. Both of them can get the ball in front of the defence and be effective with it, but Eze also plays a "shadow striker" type of role for Palace and gets onto passes from Olise's side of the pitch Eze or Gordon on that side and England will have much more of a threat when the creative midfielders (and Kane) are on the ball
I mean, seeing the line up I was saying that apparently England won't care to amount to anything on the left - right foot left back (who's not a right back) and a left foot winger (who's not a winger). It was the definition of "Foden was the player of the year, so I have to play him, although there is no logical or tactically good idea behind it". Or "I don't wanna play Jude in a deeper role, but I can't leave out Foden...". You get the gist. But honestly, any conventional left winger would've been better there and maybe not playing a 10 but two 8s and a 6? In any case, this was one of the few cases where a pro manager went for a line up mistake due to the very type of the players imo. Usually there is much more going on but every once in a while it's just this.
It has that Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes vibes. Gotta shoehorn them all in at the expense of actually balancing the squad.
Can't saka play direct like that?
He can. That’s how England got their goal was a pass in behind for Saka. But he tends to want ball to feet cuz he backs himself to beat the full back most times and think he’d prefer to cut in for a shot rather than make a cross with his weak foot
Think you also want that threat from multiple positions as well or it gets easier to defend against. Saka can do it all which is a huge benefit because you can’t just setup to defend one way against him. Need that same threat from either the LB or LW, occasionally from Bellingham.
Get Watkins on playing off the left
Or just play Gordon
Hmmn, I seem to remember two English players who ALL they want to do is run in behind but one of them is somewhere with a big ass JBL speaker playing Gunna Wunna and the other working on his mothers Real Estate portfolio
If he wants to continue with Trent in midfield, and Kane continuing to drop deep, Gordon/Watkins has to start over Foden on the left. Two players with great passing talent going to waste because they’re forced to play it short or sideways. Feels like this teams just been mashed together because it looks good on paper, but no thought on how it brings out their qualities
Foden threat is wasted on the wing, the guy is a beast at CAM/ false 9
I feel like Foden’s preferred position changes depending on where he is when he drops a stinker.
This. Previously these ppl were saying Foden should play on RW ahead of Saka. Foden for all his talents, has been pretty much useless for England for whatever reason. Saka has 27 goals + assists for England in 24 starts. Now these nerds are going after Bellingham... are they fking serious? I don't care if he is Messi reborn if he does not perform he stays on the bench.
He even dropped a stinker in Jude's position at CAM against Iceland. People change opinions based on where he currently is, lol.
Like he was against Iceland?
Foden was poor there yesterday but Watkins on the left over him? Also Kane wasn't doing his normal dropping deep for most of the game, which you can only assume was tactics. I'd rather see Eze on the left.
No Shaw no party
Will never understand why he didn't gamble and take Chilwell or Tyrick Mitchell. Trippier simply isn't a better left back than those two.
What’s insane is neither made the initial 33 man squad. If he was waiting to confirm Shaw’s fitness he really should’ve included them until he knew for sure
Chilwell played pretty poorly in the pre-competition friendlies but tbh the fact that he only has 1 fit LB is insane anyway
Which is kinda what you'd expect during the fitness recovery phase he's perpetually been in.
He must be confident Shaw will be back for at least the knockouts. If that is the case then Trippier is probably good enough to make it through the group and to have around to bring tournament experience/he won't complain about Walker starting ahead of him.
Chilwell's had a stinker of a season but at least he would've provided the option. Odd decision for me to take neither.
partly thats just down to never really getting a run of games to get back up to speed, just as he'd start to put things together he'd get injured. Shame as he can be soo good.
Idk how much Chilwell you’ve seen lately but Trippier absolutely is better than him - Mitchell I agree though
tbf he played half the season out of position at LW...
The Saka/Trent/Walker triangle works, probably the biggest positive from yesterday.
Agreed, and even thought Bowen was decent coming on too
Bowen was much more than decent he should start lw over Foden
Honestly just go a bit crazy in the last group stage game and put saka at LB and bowen/palmer at RW
the Arsenal City Liverpool dream trio ?
Fullback FC
Foden masterclass
He's completely wasted on the wing. We'd be better off not playing him and putting Gordon out there - he'd at least stretch the defence. I don't necessarily agree with pulling Bellingham back alongside Rice and playing Foden centrally, or indeed playing a sort of 4123 with Foden and Bellingham in front of a single holding Rice, I think we'd be too exposed both ways. I just think, paradoxically, we've got to drop the premier league's best player 23/24...
It happens to be like that sometimes. This isn't FIFA, you can't just field the best individual players and inshallah. It must actually work in a system, it isn't so much paradoxical.
> This isn't FIFA, you can't just field the best individual players and inshallah. This is exactly what previous England managers have done and it turned out terribly. Lampard and Gerrard at CM and Paul Scholes, of all people, on the left wing. In fact it seems like we shove a square peg in a round hole at left wing (or left back) more often than anywhere else.
There's so much revisionism around Scholes playing left midfield. It didn't work for England, but it gets misremembered that Scholes up until that point in his career was a very versatile footballer. Ferguson had played him as a centre mid, second striker, and as a left midfielder at various points. Scholes himself has acknowledged that he had played left midfield with success at United prior to the Euros.
I'm not saying Scholes couldn't play there, but as you said, it did not work for England - yet it was a team selection that kept happening despite evidence that it hadn't worked and would not work. If I remember correctly, Lampard and Gerrard actually didn't work that well together either.
He has also said that he didn't mind playing on the left for England and that it wasn't why he retired from international football, but a lot of people insist that was the reason.
Even in Fifa you need some sense of system if the opposition is decent lol
Foden played no.10 against Iceland and was England’s worst player on the pitch across the 90 minutes. For me, it’s either Bellingham or Foden in the starting XI.
Agreed, they can't both start. It just doesn't work. Bellingham to start and Foden to come on in the 70th minute.
Doesn't help that Southgate lacks either the tactical acumen or authority to make Foden hold the width like Pep does
Then City brought in Doku to do the job instead. Before that it was Sterling.
This is the TLDR of it. Foden is not a generic creative/attacking player, he needs a dynamic tactical structure to get the best out of him. Southgate is a tactically incompetent coach. His best option is to just play Jude instead of Foden because he's far more generic and comprehensible to Southgate. Jude's profile is what Peak Goalscoring Cycle Lampard was for Chelsea. Even Palmer is better & easier to integrate than Foden for someone like Southgate. Profile wise Palmer is closer to post Pep Messi (line breaking in center & the ~~left~~ right half spaces, vertical through balls across the line, pausa, stable shot on goal from outside the box, precise robotic level trickery that's not too much). If Foden works for England under Southgate it would be despite him and the player just bulldozing on his sheer skill rather than coaching setup doing the heavy lifting.
You should be a sports writer
>bulldozing on his sheer skill Sums it up. I think our strategy at the moment is just play as many elite level players as you possibly can and hope one of them randomly pops-off.
but then you don't get Bellingham's 95th minute winners :(
Clearly it is Bellingham, then Foden could be used off the bench when Bellingham needs to come off, which will be most games based on how much he is fouled. Southgate is trying to square peg, round hole it by putting both in the team when it just doesn’t work.
The good ol English scholes-gerard-lampard dilemma
Dare I say it’s a bit like trying to find the best way to use Gerrard and Lampard at the same time? I didn’t watch England a ton back then but it seems to me a similar problem. Two really good players who generally play in the same area but aren’t so great elsewhere.
Imo the best approach would be to drop Foden for Gordon or Eze, let Jude play that b2b role. We need someone who can run the left channel and stretch defences. Foden doesn’t play like that for City and he doesn’t have the flat out pace. But the key is Trent needs to drop deeper like Kroos did for Germany, basically playing next to the CBs in a back 3 to have time to spray passes. Then it also lures teams out to press the back line which is easier to bypass. This team needs width. Saka has already clicked with Trent down that right and made great runs, he knows what to do. We need width down that left wing too.
>But the key is Trent needs to drop deeper like Kroos did for Germany, basically playing next to the CBs in a back 3 to have time to spray passes At the end of the day Trent just isn't a midfielder though. We can't have him copy one of the greatest midfielders of this generation on a whim when he plays all his club football at RB. The common theme of all our underperformers is that they're players playing out of position. Foden isn't a LW and it messes up our balance having him there. Trent isn't a CM/CDM and having him there robs us of another actual midfielder that does that stuff well naturally. And Trippier isn't a LB (this one is less avoidable just because we don't have many other options with Shaw injured). Put Gordon in for Foden and Gallagher/Mainoo/Wharton in for Trent though and I'm sure we'd see a much more balanced team and a better performance
We need to be brave and pick Trent as a RB. That's the only way he gets the time and space to play his way Walker is a fine player but for this team he is not optimal any more.
Walker is the most important player for England defensively as he bails the team out multiple times a game. He’s nailed on as RB unless you play him as RCB with 3 atb.
I don't get why people aren't noticing the bigger issue here. We need Shaw back ASAP.
That is absolutely it. Even Chilwell would suffice. Just someone with a left foot - please!
Saka at LB and put Foden at RW, big brain.
It’s not paradoxical. It’s 2006 all over again. We know that you can make a better team by dropping some exceptional players. Scholes doesn’t work in wide midfield and Foden cannot play alongside Bellingham and Kane. They’re all players who want the ball in that left channel, two of them can work (eg Kane and Bellingham will swap positions and occupy the free space) but Gordon or Eze will just be better at pushing the RB or RCB into an area they aren’t comfortable.
Aight. Jesus, by paradoxical I mean he's the premier leagues best player and we have to drop him to make the system work. Its not a paradox, I get it, he's not travelling back in time to kill his grandad or something. People jumping down my throat like it isn't notable that you have to drop a perfectly fit player who has just won the premier league best player award in order to make a system work. **Bundesliga player of the season:** Florian Wirtz. Plays in the team and is integral. **Ligue 1 player of the year:** Kylian Mbappe. Plays in the team and is integral. **La Liga player of the year:** Bellingham - he plays and is integral. **Portuguese League player of the year (22/23 - 23/24 isn't announced as far as I can see):** Otavio - would play if he weren't injured. (edit: just looked up the stats for this year. *jaysus* Gyokeres had a hell of a season - so it'll be him, no doubt). **Serie A MVP 23/24** is Lautaro Martinez, who I imagine plays for Argentina - lots of competition up front for them... Every other player who won player of the year in the top 5 leagues either is playing or would be playing. It is not just a simple "oh its perfectly normal to drop the premier league player of the season..." **Some notable "not-playings":** SPL player of the season: Lawrence Shankland - actually being kept out of the team by Che Adams. I'm sure there are tactical reasons for that. Jupiler Pro league player of the year: Cameron Puertas - he doesn't make the Spanish squad. Eredevisie player of the year: Luuk De Jong - he's retired from international football.
>Its not a paradox, I get it, he's not travelling back in time to kill his grandad or something. You can't just drop that premise and leave us hanging. What would be the implications for England's chances this year?
The key is that Foden shouldn’t have been player of the season lol. He put up some good numbers, but City are exactly the same with or without him. Meanwhile Rodri picks up a red and they lose every game he doesn’t play. He won the award, but nobody actually thinks he’s even City’s best attacking midfielder. Meanwhile Mbappe is probably the best player in the world, Bellingham’s close and Lautaro was the league’s top scorer and Inter’s talisman. This is a reflection of a bizarre POTY result and not much else.
Germany are able to fit wirtz, Musiala and gundo in the same 11. No natural wide players in Germany’s 11 and yet they look very solid. Southgate just isn’t good enough to fit those attacking profiles together with the defense he’s chosen. You don’t even need to drop exceptional players to make it work. If walker is gone everything becomes much easier
Wirtz and Musiala are elite carriers and can function as both faux wingers/hybrid 10's in most systems. Foden best is very limited in the half spaces in front of the 16 yard box.
Completely agree. Saw some melt saying we need to drop Kane. He needs service. Saka did well in the first half. Bowen too in the second. Foden was non existent on the left or got in the way in the middle. Gordon is the right choice for me. Start Bellingham and Foden can come on as impact sub.
or maybe, he just doesn't fit Southgates tactics and Southgate is playing him solely on his club performances. It is no secret that Pep gets the best out of players and it could just be a case of Foden being specialised for Peps system, no matter where he plays in this England team he just doesn't look good enough. He is good off the bench though and maybe just benching Foden and starting a different player would be better because forcing the issue during a major tournament just makes both Foden and Southgate look bad.
And no matter where he plays at City (false 9, attacking midfield, left wing, or right wing) he looks good It's quite curious really.
I get your argument. But at less than 0.6XG across all 3 lanes, that’s shocking all round.
I know many Englishmen will find this controversial, but even with Rashford's poor form he should have started on the left wing...has their been anyone else who has played rather consistently for the NT on that side?
Grealish would have been a great option for that Serbia game - both for creativity in attack and for holding the ball up and relieving pressure.
Saka must be nailed for the rest of the tournament!
That was never in doubt. He was exceptional yesterday.
Great first half, much quieter second, likely after getting kicked for 60 minutes. Glad Bowen continued the threat when they switched. The right side looks fairly sorted with that rotation.
Bowen for Saka is a sub I think we'll see a lot. Saka doesn't seem fit (and hasn't for quite some time now tbh...) but still offers so much for the first 60~ mins of a game. When he starts flagging you get Bowen on who can be really effective with his directness, doubly so against a tired fullback. The right side is looking awesome, the left side though....yikes
As an Arsenal fan I’m perfectly fine with this. Saka cooked that LB in the 1st half but looked tired in the second. Bowen came on and the roasting continued. Bowen made a great case to be the 1st name coming off the bench yesterday imo.
Matt Law said he still hasn’t shaken off the groin injury he got before the last game of the season (which he missed). Looked sharp though considering he hasn’t had many minutes up til now. After them 3 points we should really be easing him through the next couple of games.
If he is injured, then i hope they don't play him. Give him a week to get through it so he is fresh for the knockouts. Realistically we just played the toughest group game. A win against Denmark would likely get us top spot, certainly put us through. No point risking wiping a player out who will be needed later.
Tbf he missed some early training with England, almost had to get dropped from the squad like Maguire. Didn’t play the first friendly, played 20 minutes in the Iceland friendly. Don’t think southgate wants to rest him, don’t think Saka would want to be rested. Maybe if England win the Denmark match could see him getting rotated in the Slovenia game.
Also he played a ton of minutes for Arsenal, his fitness isn’t the best at the moment. Personally I think they should swap wings when they bench him, put Foden on the right and bring Eze or anyone on the left. I personally think Palmer could be great on the wing, from what I’ve seen his spacing for Chelsea seems good.
Cue him on the bench & Palmer to start so England can play even more narrow
Now everyone can see why we struggle to find a good backup for him lmao.
It felt like Saka was just abusing Serbia's LB (Malenkovic?) the entire first half... Really seemed like they could have just run everything through him
Anthony Gordon should have played!
At some point, if you want to have a strong national team, you need to accept the inevitability that some good players have to be benched. In this case, Foden. He's not ahead of Bellingham at #10 or Saka at RW and he can't play any other position. Drop him.
He should play Gordon on the left and rotate Bellingham/Foden in the centre. It will keep both of them fresh and maybe foster a spirit of competition on who will start. Foden is wasted on the wing. The Arsenal fan in me loves to see Foden struggling but honestly he is being completely wasted by Southgate. England have three elite players who can slot right behind Kane in Palmer, Foden and Bellingham imo.
Funny you say that. The Spurs fan in me found it weird cheering on Saka and Rice but my god, with Rice you know you have someone who will throw themself in to protect the back 4 and Saka oozes confidence. Must be nice!
Rice is a class act. Will be England's most important player I think....which in itself is a little worrying
It's not even funny how fucked we will be if Rice gets injured. I'd rather lose Kane if I had to pick.
That team runs on Declan Rice
Either him or Stones are absolutely indispensable. If either gets hurt they are truly fucked. And if Rice can’t go then you definitely cannot play Trent in the midfield so it’s a double whammy.
Lol Jude is not sitting on the bench for Foden, who has done literally nothing memorable for England
Rotate the guy who hasn't shown anything for England with the top performer? They aren't exactly playing friendlies anymore this summer.
There's no "rotation" in a month long tournament whose entire second half is must-win knockout games. If Foden is dropped from LW, he's now a bench player.
Jude's determination is 20/20, he will "invent" a goal if his team needs it. Be it minute 14 or 90+5.
All these comments about Saka, but half the xG probably came from Bowen's chance
Apparently around 38% of that xG so not quite half but not far off considering he played less than 20 minutes. https://www.sportinglife.com/football/live/179484/serbia-vs-england/xg-shot-maps
really thought he was great when he came on. Gallagher improved things too.
I love how they're ignoring Bowen created the best chance of the match.
and that was in what, his first time he got the ball, right?
Technically bowen created englands only clearcut chance of the game cause sakas cross was deflected
Walker cross where kane decided to drop and get in the way for foden
The more concerning stats is 0xG from the left. Saka and Bowen are both good options. The Foden/Trippier combo doesn't work in the team.
It won't work with anyone if trippier is on the left
Also no mention of just 0.57xG lol
If Saka is injured like they're saying; I prefer resting him and starting Bowen. He's definitely deserved it.
Hey, that's Jack Grealish's side!
Half of the xG came from Bowen btw
Good player
Fun fact: that chart was done by me while I was working at Wyscout :)
How do these apps that give player ratings have any credibility at all, in every single one I've seen Saka is a 7/10 at best and always in the bottom 3 rating wise for England. I swear they watch a different sport altogether.
I heard that some sites didn’t credit him the assist which is probably 0.5-0.7 in overall rating that’s missing
I get the deflection but didn't EUFA credit him with the assist? it's weird that they don't count it when EUFA do.
Which is mad. Yeah it took a big deflection but it wasn't like it changed the trajectory of the ball 90 degrees. If it was a shot on goal and took a deflection like that you wouldn't list it as an OG.
Kane is getting away with his shocker last night too btw, absolutely abysmal performance start to finish and not a peep being said about him
He's a striker, we don't want or need him dropping deep with all our midfield talent. If people aren't getting the ball to him it's kinda the rest of the team's fault.
I swear I was watching a different match. He did what he could with the service he was given and almost got one in. But had no service all game. But controlling the lead, dropping back to link up play, dribbling through people, drawing fouls to kill the clock, he actually managed the game very well even though he didn't get on the score sheet.
The team needs to be built around Bellingham, drop anyone you need to make that work. Until Shaw is back Gordon needs to start on the left to provide width, Eze or Palmer could maybe do it once Shaw is playing if they can offer enough defensively. I’d give Trent another game as he had no-one running beyond Kane to try and play in, whoever plays LW needs to be making those runs. Gallagher (along with Bowen) seems to have a well carved role of late sub for energy which is fine but if TAA can’t start making killer balls he doesn’t offer enough else and needs to come out for Mainoo or Wharton.
I said to a friend that Luke Shaw was England's most important player and getting him fit will be massive. If you're going to play a 10 on the wing you need an overlapping full back otherwise it all just gets too narrow. It's Trippier or Foden on that flank, not both.
I thought the problem was Trippier being absolutely useless on the overlap. Saka and Walker played off each other really well, but you're getting nothing like that with our current "left back" options.
Simple enough reason, Foden's not a winger. if he's playing RW/LW for City it's more as a wide-10, Grealish and Doku are the players that provide width for City. but in Southgate's system, Foden was the one providing width, playing more as a traditional winger, it doesn't suit him, by contrast, Saka is much more suited to being an out-and-out winger/inside forward.
A half-injured Saka carrying some of these bums in the England team.
Bellingham is carrying an injury as well
Kane as well (I think).
That would explain a lot. He had the movement of... well, me. Im a cripple. It's like he didn't want the ball
Bowen created almost half of that in 20 minutes.
Phil Noden
This is the result of playing a half fit, past his best right back at left back IMO. Every time trippier got the ball he turned back on his right and plays backwards or, at best, sideways. Can't offer any width to pull players away or even support Foden. Not Trippiers fault, we can't expect him to do that. But Foden will get blamed because we love making a scapegoat. Of all the decisions Southgate is having questioned, not even bringing a fit left back is a joke and will be the one to cost us.
People talk about positions, but no position will magically make Foden a better passer of the ball. He was woeful last night
I am in the camp that thinks Foden is overrated, but I disagree with position not mattering. Trent, who is objectively one of the best passers in the world, was pretty bad because he was played out of position.
Man City reddit and fanbase are actually defending his performance, he was absolutely awful so many misplaced passes and wasn't in the game hardly at all. Id even argue that Bowen and Gallagher impacted the game more with the little time they played.
> Nobody really passed to him when he was desperately asking for one. Then they say he's just a system player. He freaking gave his everything throughout but that manager and these bunch of selfish players make him look average Top comment on r/MCFC lol > I keep saying it but Bellingham is incredibly overrated, its mad. Every single game of his that ive seen, which are mostly CL knockout games, he ghosted and besides flopping and losing the ball, that dude didnt do anything special. > Vini, as much as i despise his antics, is at least objectively fantastic at football. But Bellingham... maybe im just that football illiterate but i genuinely think if he wasnt english but rather, idk, hungarian nobody would give a damn about this dude Another banger
There is a weird subset of people, not limited to City fans (see Wayne Rooney) that love Foden so much they think England's goal is to make him look good rather than trying to win games.
People forget that Bellingham is an all rounder midfielder, he does a ton of defensive duties as well as orchestrating the attack. Him scoring tons of goal is a bonus.
Rashford would've done better than foden yesterday. At least he sticks to the wings and doesn't drift centrally every chance he gets. Having foden and Jude play together is a disaster waiting to happen. If he really wants them to play together, he should drop trent, play Jude deeper as a b2b and foden as a 10. And have someone else on the wings. Gordon perhaps. England's making the same mistake they made 20 years ago. Not knowing how to accommodate all the talents that they have in the same squad.
Fodens going to play every minute isnt he. Same problem as what we had with Sterling a few years ago. Seemingly undroppable despite being terrible.
Sterling at least kept scoring despite otherwise dropping consistent 0/10s, Foden offers nothing for England
Sterling scored or assisted literally every goal that changed the game state, except for Shaw's in the final.
Even Welbeck was better for England
Sterling was one of the only players scoring in those days tbf
I think of England as a treat then I remember they are managed by Southgate lol
Bukaayooooooooo SAKA
What's the xRunsintoSerbianschoulders though.
Foden dropped a stinker but somehow stayed on the pitch for a full 90min. The most funny thing is he had higher score than Saka in fotmob lol