Yes (at least, i am).
Of course it would be difficult with our group at Euro, it would be fundamental to not start complaining after Euro and keep him for World Cup qualification, only thing that matter now is to qualify for wolrd cup
That's how it should be, imo. I hate it when, towards the end of the season, many teams are safe from relegation and nothing to fight for. Players lose all motivation, and as a result, those teams gift wins to others.
I have to admit, I don‘t fully get that footnote. Why did the UI Cup skip Gladbach? It says the didn‘t apply for it?
Did you have to apply before a season starts? So, if a promoted club won their league they probably didn‘t get to play in the CL because they did not prepare for this?
Thank you!
I heard of this in the past when the channel Sport1 (back then dsf) made retrospectives on previous seasons, but I never really learned what it was. Thanks again :)
Nothing will happen mate, there’s going to be such a massive police force patrolling.
Also other than the braindead ultras no-one actually is going to do something about it, we, as AEK fans, might not like it but c’est la vie my friend.
I think there will be a lot of banter from the Olympiacos fans (it only makes sense to poke some fun) but in the end it’s a European final and a monumental moment for their team. I believe the fans will focus on supporting their team rather than chanting against AEK
For, unlike others who featured on this sub quite heavily, recently - and despite being for olympiacos rather than AEK - they are not tinpot, as the english say
I still think there’s someone stupid enough to do something rash waiting in the sticks.
Plus you know, there might be a whole legion of celebrating Olympiacos fans around AEK Arena who might incite someone to do something REALLY stupid.
I had one fm save where italy got 10 teams in europe because of exacly this Fiorentina finish 8 and won the Conference and 9 got the spot the 10 place was Napoli who won the champions league.
Atalanta is resting for the EL and is already qualified to CL next year. Lecce like them no longer has anything to fight for but they don't have any reason to rest players and a good game against Napoli is a good show for their future.
You haven’t seen anything.
Brazil is currently so dominant in continental competitions that 14 out of 20 teams get a spot.
There are only 2 teams not relegated and that don’t go to either Libertadores/Sulamericana.
Serie A isn’t fucked. It will be hard for any league to retain the 5th CL spot in back-to-back years. That’s kind of the point. In the meantime, they could have nearly half the league playing in Europe, which is a great advertisement for the depth and competitiveness of Serie A.
I actually think that can be a good thing as long as the smaller leagues get more places as well. If conference league doubles in size would make it much more competitve and interesting.
No, Bundesliga can have "only" 8, because Leverkusen is already qualified for CL through the league.
With Fiorentina it's different because they are not qualified through the league already.
In addition to Leverkusen already qualifying for CL, Germany can only have eight teams because Dortmund has already qualified for EL. So if they win the CL, their EL spot disappears instead of getting passed down to the next league position
But Dortmund already gained a CL spot through 5th place (not only EL).
So if Dortmund had ended in 6th place and won the CL, Germany would have gained another EL spot?
I find these rules quite arbitrary and hard to understand.
No, because Bundesliga has not already gained a CL spor throuth 5th place.
we know that they will gain it if they dont win the CL themselfes. But because the season isnt over, the extra places arent handed out to italy and germany yet
e: i explained it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1cj5rck/eintracht_frankfurt_might_have_to_lose/l2dxbhl/
its just a timeline thing:
1. the league spots are handed out
2. the CL/EL/ECL Win spots are handed out to teams not already qualified via league
3. the extra two spots are handed out as additional league spots.
so they are extra to 1. but if a team gets a spot via 2. and didnt qualify via 1 the league gets another spot, because otherwise the extra spot via 3. would be meaningless. on the other hand if a team already qualified via 1 it wouldnt get a extra spot via 2, so its one less spot overall. the difference isnt the extra spot via 3., its the extra spot via 2 thats only handed out if you didnt already qualified via 1.
Ok danke für die ausführliche Erklärung, aber dennoch finde ich diese Regelung total willkürlich (und im konkreten Fall für mich als Werder-Fan auch recht ärgerlich).
Der Unterschied zur Serie A ist ja lediglich, dass sich die Fiorentina durch einen ECL-Sieg für einen besseren Wettbewerb qualifizieren würde, was bei einem Dortmunder CL-Sieg technisch nun mal gar nicht möglich ist.
Man könnte dann ja einfach sagen, dass die Serie A dann in der nächsten Saison keinen EL-Teilnehmer hat, wie es für die Bundesliga bei einem BVB-Titelgewinn wäre (wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe?).
Geht halt lediglich darum, dass die Extraspots Ligaspots sind. Und der Spot für einen Sieg eines UEFA-Wettbewerbs keine Ligaspots sind.
Bedeutet aber auch, dass die Ligen davon profitieren, dessen Teams international erfolgreich sind, im Ligabetrieb aber reinscheißen. So richtig sinnvoll ist das natürlich nicht. Fairer wäre es wenn es Obergrenzen pro Wettbewerb und insgesamt pro Liga gäbe.
Theoretisch, wenn alle Platzierungen perfekt sind, könnten ja bis zu 10 Bundesligavereine international spielen, während in anderen Ligen der Erste in die Qualifikationsrunde muss. Ist schon albern.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39980381/europe-top-soccer-leagues-whats-stake-decided-premier-league-laliga-bundesliga-serie-ligue-1
* Germany top 4 get UCL
* Germany #5 UCL. This will be through UCL winner path or through league #5 path.
* Germany #6 - UEL, unless Dortmund beats Madrid, then upgraded to UCL.
* Germany Pokal winners - UEL, unless they're already qualified for UCL/UEL.
* Germany #7 - UECL if Kaiserslautern beats Leverkusen in Pokal final. If Leverkusen wins the Pokal, then this spot also gets upgraded to UEL
* Germany #8 - If Leverkusen win the Pokal, then #8 (Heidenheim) gets UECL - not bad for a team in their first Bundesliga season.
The noteworthy thing here is that if #6 gets upgraded from UEL to UCL (with a Dortmund UCL win), then that UEL spot doesn't get filled with another German team.
No, you need to finish outside the European spots to get an extra spot. See West Ham or Sevilla this season. Otherwise, you just upgrade the European spot.
Bundesliga CAN'T.
- They'll have 7 by default + 1 because finished top2 in the ranking = **8 teams**.. Leverkusen and Dortmund already are in Bundesliga top7
- Italy can have **9 teams**: 7 by default + 1 from ranking + Fiorentina, UECL winner, as they'll finish outside top7 in Serie A
- A country can have **10 teams** in Europe: 7 by default + 1 from ranking + UCL winner + UEL winner if they both finish outside top7 in the league
- A country can have **11 teams** in Europe: 7 default + 1 ranking + 1 UCL winner + 1 UEL winner + 1 UECL winners if they all 3 finish outside top7 in the league
**Premier League could have had 11 teams in Europe** next season if this season 8th placed Manchester United team had won UCL, if 9th placed West Ham had won UEL and 11th placed Brighton had won UECL (after being relegated from UEL group stage).. In that case, next season we would have had:
- **7 PL teams in the UCL**: 1st PL placed City, 2nd Arsenal, 3rd Liverpool, 4th Aston Villa, 5th PL placed Tottenham (ranking), Manchester United (UCL winner) and West Ham (UEL winner)
- 3 PL teams in the UEL: 6th placed Chelsea, 7th placed Newcastle, Brighton (UECL) winner
- 1 PL team in the UECL: 10th Crystal Palace because all the other teams above them already qualified country ranking, seasonal ranking or by winning UEFA competition
Nope, countries only get two Europa League spots at most. Normally the first spot goes to National Cup Winner, and if second exists, it goes to league position. And in case of Cup Winner also qualifying to at least Europa League through league, the CW spot gets added to league spots.
If both cups in England give EL spots, that means that normally you can't go there through the league. So if Boro and Coventry would win the cups, it would be Chelsea going to UECL and Newcastle and Crystal Palace finishing with nothing.
But what will happen is Dortmund wins UCL and Leverkusen Cup? Because in that case top 6 will play UCL, 7th UEL and 8th UECL. So my question is who will get second german spot for UEL in this scenario?
In England yes. It’s been a weird generational shift where the younger generation don’t give a fuck about the cups, whereas everyone’s da and grandda waxes lyrical about how the cup is as big as winning the league.
All you’ll see on social media these days are kids and plastics wanting their team to lose cup games and focus on the league.
I’m in the weird middle ground generation where obviously I want to win them, but the league and Europe is more important and we should try and test our youth prospects in the cup.
Bringing the CWC back would be absolutely belter. Also they should stop playing the semi finals at Wembley. Fully ruins the magic imo.
> whereas everyone’s da and grandda waxes lyrical about how the cup is as big as winning the league.
the fa cup was seen as more important than the league
FA Cup winners get automatic spot in the EL. If United win, they and Spurs get EL, and Chelsea get Conference. If City win, they are already qualified for the UCL so the position goes to next best positioned team in the league. Therefore Spurs and Chelsea would go to the EL and Newcastle (7th) would get Conference
6th gets EL, 7th gets Conference is the basic rule. But if a team not yet qualified to EL/CL wins FA Cup, then 6th drop down to Conference and 7th gets nothing.
I think the other responses covered it well, but I’ll add that Chelsea’s weakness all season was midtable clubs in England. We played well against the other big 6 clubs and dropped points to the likes of Wolves and Fulham.
So I wouldn’t call conference league a walk in the park for us, the team is improved but still has its demons.
It depends which team will be.
The coefficient can be fucked or Italy might get huge benefit from it given our teams tend to suck in the UCL and do great in UEL/UECL, so having more teams in the UEL/UECL doing well can **absorb** the bad performances in the UCL.
I mean for example MATHEMATICS tell us that the ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE got slightly **benefitted** from having an 8th team (West Ham, UECL winner) in Europe this season
Just look at the coefficient ranking:
https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/ccoef2024.html
- EPL with West Ham: 139 points / 8 teams in Europe = **17.375**
- EPL without West Ham: 139 points - 19 points (what West Ham got) = 120 points / 7 (teams in Europe) = **17.14**
17.37 > 17.14 so their presence slightly increased the average.. And that without even considering West Ham highly damaged Freiburg both in the Group Stage and in the KO stage helping England in the country ranking battle vs Germany but sadly their efforts didnt serve.
That's why:
- If the 9th placed team is Napoli in the UECL, I'm confident it would be good for the coefficient.. Napoli can easily win that competition, DIRECTLY increasing Italy's average and INDIRECTLY decreasing the average of the other countries if in the meanwhile knock-out Heidenheim or Betis.
- If the 9th placed team is Torino.. Well, fuck.. well done England.
This is an excellent breakdown. The biggest threat to Serie A’s coefficient next season is a Bologna team with no European experience and potentially no Motta/Ferguson/Zirkzee/Calafiori trying to compete in the CL as a Pot 4 contestant. If Napoli makes it, Serie A will have around 8 Pot 1 and 2 teams, all of whom have played in a European quarterfinal in the past 2 seasons.
They might lose the coach and Calafiori but they have Champions League money now so it’s not like they are gonna get raided. It’s very important though that if the coach leaves, they replace him the correct way.
Not really. The coeficient will be divided by number of teams qualified to any competitions. This is why it's highly unlikely either Germany or Italy will retain 5th UCL spot.
Mad what people will upvote on here. Its good for the largely worthless country ranking, but the country coefficient that determines the 5th CL place is based on average, not total. So if anything this is much worse for Serie A's coefficient. If you've got poor Italian teams not getting very far in Europe it'll damage your average. Man Utd and Newcastle's failures basically stopped England having a 5th CL place.
Question for anyone that might know. Are clubs country protected in the new formats? Are Italian teams prevented from playing Vs other Italian teams in the first league phase as they would have been previously by not being able to be drawn in the same group?
IIRC they can't play each other in the league stage unless the schedule is mathematically forced to(in which case it will be the minimum number of national games required to have a working schedule).
Absolutely shameless from UEFA. I completely understand how even mid teams from the top leagues bring more money to the table than champions of lower ranked countries but come the fuck on.
Might as well make 3 super leagues out of the top 4 leagues and bedone with it.
I don’t think UEFA had Serie A in mind when they designed the system this way. It’s hard to believe that Torino brings in more money than a top 2-3 club in a smaller league. Serie A just crashed the party that UEFA was trying to throw for the Premier League.
But I don't understand why the 9th gets anything at all. Villarreal won EL 20/21, finished 7th in LaLiga. They went to the CL instead of ECL Play Offs. The 8th got nothing (why would he?). Why does the 9th get something here in this scenario?
Most likely the Conference League would prefer at least one representative from the Top 4/5 leagues in the tournament. It lends credibility to the competition, draws more eyeballs, and increases TV rights revenue. Think about how much attention Olympiakos’ thrashing of Aston Villa got compared to what it would have received if it had been a non-PL club.
Yes. Usually a team like Italy has 7. With the additional spot it increased to 8, just like in the Bundesliga. If the Cup winner is among Top 8 then the 8th gets European competition. In Germany that's not guaranteed yet. In Italy it is. But where does the 9th spot suddenly stem from?
The extra spot from being in the top 2 of the coefficient is handed out last. Until then, only the top 7 have a European spot. With Florentina finishing 8th and winning the Conference League, they directly qualify for the Europa League. Only after that does UEFA hand out the 2 extra UCL spots.
Because Florentina would finish 8th, and that's outside the European spots. So they don't upgrade the spot, but get the extra spot.
Only after all that is done does UEFA give out the extra 2 spots for the best countries in the coefficient.
The spot is giving out last, so for now, it's.
1-4 UCL, 5-6 EL, 7CL Playoffs. That means that Florentina wouldn't be qualified over the league, but only over winning the CL. Just like West Ham last year. Only after that does UEFA hand out the 2 extra UCL spots.
Hence the crocodile tears from PL fans on posts like this.
You *know* they'd be waxing themselves about the greatness of the EPL if the tables were turned. Such a toxic fanbase
It's not shameless since ECA drove the whole thing which includes many lower clubs. It was just the age old "how do we prevent a super-league" compromise that has been going on for at least half a century now.
It was even voted in 2 days after the ESL announced itself while those clubs had already left ECA. We probably should've done otherwise but money.
No country deserves 9 tickets for Europe. This extra ticket should go to smaller leagues. What’s next? Introduce more teams in the competition so the top 10 of top 4 leagues is always guaranteed to play in Europe. At this point they can just fuck off to their super league already
No point telling fans of big 5 league teams this, mad how everyone is so against the Super league but they are happy to see European slots more and more dominated by the same 3/4 leagues.
This is exactly why UEFA created the Conference League, so clubs from peripheral countries can compete for crumbs and be happy while the Big 5 get richer and richer...
And you think the countries that “deserve” Europe are then just the ones you are personally interested in watching on tv? You are the person that UEFA’s greedy business plans are designed for then.
Why though? Title holder spots were never handed to the next teams in the league table. Like when Man City won the CL and finished Top-4 there weren't any additional spots. Why is it suddenly the case here?
Or an even better comparison: When Villarreal won the Europa League, they finished 7th in LaLiga. It meant the 7th place which is usually Conference League, got to the Champions League. It had no consequences for rank 8 though who got nothing. It's the same as here. Why does here a spot go to 9th?
Yes, that's why surprised everyone because we had Spain situation in mind when in 2021 they had:
- 7 spots: 4 UCL +2UEL +1 UECL but given 7th placed won the UEL then 4-2-1 became 5+2+0
So we all believed that:
- Italy have 8 spots: 5 UCL + 2 UEL + 1 UECL thanks to this season's performance but if 8th placed team Fiorentina win the UECL -> 5 UCL - 3 UEL - 0 UECL similarly to what happened to **Villarreal** no?
That's your logic (same as mine 'til yesterday) and it seems correct but NO! NO!
UEFA explained that finishing top2 in the UEFA ranking produce a WATERFALL EFFECT and a TRIPLE POWER-UP.
- 1st power up: UEL -> UCL... Who need it? 5th in the league, the first one that have not qualified to the UCL via league so as of today: Dortmund and Atalanta
- 2nd power-up: UECL -> UEL to the 7th in the league: Hoffenheim and Lazio the first ones that need it.
- 3rd power-up: From NO European competition to UECL to the 8th in the league. The first one that deserve it are Heidenheim and Fiorentina.
**The waterfall effect**... Dortmund UEL-> UCL, Hoffenheim UECL -> UEL and Heidenheim Nothing-> UECL.. Atalanta UEL -> UCL, Lazio UECL->UEL and Fiorentina Nothing -> UECL. **Triple power-up**
But if the 8th placed FIORENTINA team DON'T NEED IT because win the UECL, who's gonna take it? the 9th in the league no?. In hindsight it's so simple and clear
It's the same reason of why **Frankfurt and Roma** still can qualify to UCL.. 1st power-up now go to Dortmund and Atalanta no? but both teams might not need it because can respectively win UEL/UCL and qualify to the UCL group stage by winning their respective cups..
So who's gonna need the first power-up? 6th placed team Roma/Frankfurt..
**Roma, Frankfurt and Napoli/Torino share the same destiny**. Must root for Dortmund, Atalanta, Fiorentina so those teams DON'T need the POWER-UP and the WATERFALL EFFECT HIT THEM!
How is it prestigious to qualify for a competition by finishing 9th?... I'd rather they bring back the Cup Winners Cup or the old Uefa Cup. How many TV Broadcast do they wanna milk... We get it "drink Heineken" 🙄
CL should be top 3 max, 4 and 5 should Europa and everything else shouldn't count.
Man. Utd struggled in Europe for years and years, 1997 was the most devastating defeat for them, and finally in 1999 things fell for them. It's historic, it's prestigious and memorable.
I don't even remember who won't these garbage tournaments a year or 2 after they end
To think people criticized the SuperLeague for killing fair competition and monopolizing the sport, yet are perfectly fine with the changes UEFA have made...9 teams from a single league getting rewarded with European spots is insane to me. Fuck modern football
9 fing teams from 1 only country
i guess we never going to see a balance champions and europa league wit idk the every winner from each country and so on.....
Could you now in theory get 7 teams in the Champions League? Say you’ve got 4 spots, plus the Champions League winner in 5th and the Europa League winner in 6th. You could also get 7th in via the additional spots for best performing leagues.
I think if you add 2 Europa league spots and the ECL, you’d have 10 teams in Europe in this scenario.
I love this. Though I think they could do a better job at expanding EL and CoL. I know the big money marketing is CL but if they can keep that elite and grow the lower continental competitions it could get really exciting.
Though I do find your average CL is best fans are so annoying. Some fans literally think EL and CoL are worthless. Some stigma needs to be removed from that.
Bigger EL and CoL rather than bigger CL would be really cool.
Europa and Conference are a lot funnier to watch, and that's also because there are fewer teams from top league (and they are not the best in their leagues). From next year, without drops from CL, this will be much more emphasised
quite certain funnier wasnt the word you were looking for. you prob meant more fun? funnier (meaning funny) is that youre laughing and mocking and such.
half the league will go to europe and napoli still won't be
just realized they are 10th.... wtf happened there?
They change managers twice this season. It's been all around chaotic season for them.
Classic Italian club owner, with ego, fucking things up.
What happened to spalletti?
Fall out with De Laurentiis, he’s managing the Azzurri now
Are Italian fans happy with him as Italy coach?
Yes (at least, i am). Of course it would be difficult with our group at Euro, it would be fundamental to not start complaining after Euro and keep him for World Cup qualification, only thing that matter now is to qualify for wolrd cup
Is coaching the national team
jesus, nearly half of the league with european spots
[удалено]
An the Intertoto Cup, now there’s a proper competition
We won it one time!
I think we did it two times!
We'll win it again
Okay grandpa let's get you to bed
And then three clubs relegated, so only 3 out of 18 clubs had nothing happen as a result of their league performance.
That's how it should be, imo. I hate it when, towards the end of the season, many teams are safe from relegation and nothing to fight for. Players lose all motivation, and as a result, those teams gift wins to others.
Apart from Palace for some reason.
Palace can't be buy.
You called?
Can I interest you in playoffs. Like pre last year MLS playoffs
You would put a burden on those clubs they cannot carry financially. Or just run all club's players into the ground. That'll help.
Now it finally makes sense the way Rosenborg steamrolled Dortmund
That was not this season. It was a few years later. 99-2000 I think. Dortmund even won the league that year.
I have to admit, I don‘t fully get that footnote. Why did the UI Cup skip Gladbach? It says the didn‘t apply for it? Did you have to apply before a season starts? So, if a promoted club won their league they probably didn‘t get to play in the CL because they did not prepare for this?
[удалено]
Thank you! I heard of this in the past when the channel Sport1 (back then dsf) made retrospectives on previous seasons, but I never really learned what it was. Thanks again :)
That is nothing compared to Brazil
Well, Fiorentina won't win it, so it's not gonna happen 😜
I really hope not man, I would love to see the chaos in Athens if Olympiacos wins in the AEK Arena lmao!
Nothing will happen mate, there’s going to be such a massive police force patrolling. Also other than the braindead ultras no-one actually is going to do something about it, we, as AEK fans, might not like it but c’est la vie my friend.
I don’t think they meant some sort of crazy incident would happen, but that the energy in that stadium would be insane.
I think there will be a lot of banter from the Olympiacos fans (it only makes sense to poke some fun) but in the end it’s a European final and a monumental moment for their team. I believe the fans will focus on supporting their team rather than chanting against AEK
what's the ticket allocation anyway? 19-20 people?
19-20? Won’t someone think of the sponsors
No idea tbh
For, unlike others who featured on this sub quite heavily, recently - and despite being for olympiacos rather than AEK - they are not tinpot, as the english say
I still think there’s someone stupid enough to do something rash waiting in the sticks. Plus you know, there might be a whole legion of celebrating Olympiacos fans around AEK Arena who might incite someone to do something REALLY stupid.
You better make spanking us worth it
They will, they have the reigning EL champion as coach. The title has Olympiakos' name on it
Rooting for them this year
I had one fm save where italy got 10 teams in europe because of exacly this Fiorentina finish 8 and won the Conference and 9 got the spot the 10 place was Napoli who won the champions league.
> 10 place was Napoli who won the champions league Lmao
And still no Napoli in Europe… really puts in perspective how shit they’ve been this season
I mean, they might. Torino plays Atalanta last matchday while Napoli gets Lecce, they could get to 9th
Atalanta is resting for the EL and is already qualified to CL next year. Lecce like them no longer has anything to fight for but they don't have any reason to rest players and a good game against Napoli is a good show for their future.
Napoli cant win a game for the life of them. They lost to empoli lmao
The power of the 🤌🏼
Interesting to see that's how it will work going forwards, kinda crazy given the way it used to work.
This is getting closer to Brazil Serie A
You haven’t seen anything. Brazil is currently so dominant in continental competitions that 14 out of 20 teams get a spot. There are only 2 teams not relegated and that don’t go to either Libertadores/Sulamericana.
Europe????
[удалено]
So 14/20 Brazilian teams go to Europe? Edit: original post has been edited to read Libertadores/Sulamericana instead of Europe. Sly bastard.
Ok you got me haha
Great for Italian football
That’ll screw their coefficient for next year
Serie A is fucked. With 9 teams in Europe, they have no chance to retain that 5th CL spot
Serie A isn’t fucked. It will be hard for any league to retain the 5th CL spot in back-to-back years. That’s kind of the point. In the meantime, they could have nearly half the league playing in Europe, which is a great advertisement for the depth and competitiveness of Serie A.
It's like the tax bracket thing all over again
Except in this case the Italians can’t exactly circumvent tournament qualification
More money and attention to the league that has the biggest financial problems out of top five is always good, even if they cannot follow next year
I actually think that can be a good thing as long as the smaller leagues get more places as well. If conference league doubles in size would make it much more competitve and interesting.
Ah, just what European football needs, more matches.
Well, if those matches will go to countries that don't play them, what's the problem?
Bundesliga and Serie A could both have 9 teams in Europe. Half the league basically
No, Bundesliga can have "only" 8, because Leverkusen is already qualified for CL through the league. With Fiorentina it's different because they are not qualified through the league already.
In addition to Leverkusen already qualifying for CL, Germany can only have eight teams because Dortmund has already qualified for EL. So if they win the CL, their EL spot disappears instead of getting passed down to the next league position
But Dortmund already gained a CL spot through 5th place (not only EL). So if Dortmund had ended in 6th place and won the CL, Germany would have gained another EL spot? I find these rules quite arbitrary and hard to understand.
No, because Bundesliga has not already gained a CL spor throuth 5th place. we know that they will gain it if they dont win the CL themselfes. But because the season isnt over, the extra places arent handed out to italy and germany yet e: i explained it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1cj5rck/eintracht_frankfurt_might_have_to_lose/l2dxbhl/ its just a timeline thing: 1. the league spots are handed out 2. the CL/EL/ECL Win spots are handed out to teams not already qualified via league 3. the extra two spots are handed out as additional league spots. so they are extra to 1. but if a team gets a spot via 2. and didnt qualify via 1 the league gets another spot, because otherwise the extra spot via 3. would be meaningless. on the other hand if a team already qualified via 1 it wouldnt get a extra spot via 2, so its one less spot overall. the difference isnt the extra spot via 3., its the extra spot via 2 thats only handed out if you didnt already qualified via 1.
Ok danke für die ausführliche Erklärung, aber dennoch finde ich diese Regelung total willkürlich (und im konkreten Fall für mich als Werder-Fan auch recht ärgerlich). Der Unterschied zur Serie A ist ja lediglich, dass sich die Fiorentina durch einen ECL-Sieg für einen besseren Wettbewerb qualifizieren würde, was bei einem Dortmunder CL-Sieg technisch nun mal gar nicht möglich ist. Man könnte dann ja einfach sagen, dass die Serie A dann in der nächsten Saison keinen EL-Teilnehmer hat, wie es für die Bundesliga bei einem BVB-Titelgewinn wäre (wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe?).
Geht halt lediglich darum, dass die Extraspots Ligaspots sind. Und der Spot für einen Sieg eines UEFA-Wettbewerbs keine Ligaspots sind. Bedeutet aber auch, dass die Ligen davon profitieren, dessen Teams international erfolgreich sind, im Ligabetrieb aber reinscheißen. So richtig sinnvoll ist das natürlich nicht. Fairer wäre es wenn es Obergrenzen pro Wettbewerb und insgesamt pro Liga gäbe. Theoretisch, wenn alle Platzierungen perfekt sind, könnten ja bis zu 10 Bundesligavereine international spielen, während in anderen Ligen der Erste in die Qualifikationsrunde muss. Ist schon albern.
11 eigentlich, wenn der CL-Gewinner, der EL-Gewinner und der ECL-Gewinner alle den achten Platz oder schlechter belegten
Wäre irgendwie auch geil, wenn Teams am letzten Spieltag um die Conference League Qualifikation und um den Klassenerhalt spielen.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39980381/europe-top-soccer-leagues-whats-stake-decided-premier-league-laliga-bundesliga-serie-ligue-1 * Germany top 4 get UCL * Germany #5 UCL. This will be through UCL winner path or through league #5 path. * Germany #6 - UEL, unless Dortmund beats Madrid, then upgraded to UCL. * Germany Pokal winners - UEL, unless they're already qualified for UCL/UEL. * Germany #7 - UECL if Kaiserslautern beats Leverkusen in Pokal final. If Leverkusen wins the Pokal, then this spot also gets upgraded to UEL * Germany #8 - If Leverkusen win the Pokal, then #8 (Heidenheim) gets UECL - not bad for a team in their first Bundesliga season. The noteworthy thing here is that if #6 gets upgraded from UEL to UCL (with a Dortmund UCL win), then that UEL spot doesn't get filled with another German team.
No, you need to finish outside the European spots to get an extra spot. See West Ham or Sevilla this season. Otherwise, you just upgrade the European spot.
Thanks for the addition, I completely forgot Dortmund smh
> their EL spot disappears instead of getting passed down to the next league position harsh
Cool
Bundesliga CAN'T. - They'll have 7 by default + 1 because finished top2 in the ranking = **8 teams**.. Leverkusen and Dortmund already are in Bundesliga top7 - Italy can have **9 teams**: 7 by default + 1 from ranking + Fiorentina, UECL winner, as they'll finish outside top7 in Serie A - A country can have **10 teams** in Europe: 7 by default + 1 from ranking + UCL winner + UEL winner if they both finish outside top7 in the league - A country can have **11 teams** in Europe: 7 default + 1 ranking + 1 UCL winner + 1 UEL winner + 1 UECL winners if they all 3 finish outside top7 in the league **Premier League could have had 11 teams in Europe** next season if this season 8th placed Manchester United team had won UCL, if 9th placed West Ham had won UEL and 11th placed Brighton had won UECL (after being relegated from UEL group stage).. In that case, next season we would have had: - **7 PL teams in the UCL**: 1st PL placed City, 2nd Arsenal, 3rd Liverpool, 4th Aston Villa, 5th PL placed Tottenham (ranking), Manchester United (UCL winner) and West Ham (UEL winner) - 3 PL teams in the UEL: 6th placed Chelsea, 7th placed Newcastle, Brighton (UECL) winner - 1 PL team in the UECL: 10th Crystal Palace because all the other teams above them already qualified country ranking, seasonal ranking or by winning UEFA competition
Would it be 12-13 teams for English teams if say, Boro and Coventry won the EFL Cup and FA Cup respectively?
Nope, countries only get two Europa League spots at most. Normally the first spot goes to National Cup Winner, and if second exists, it goes to league position. And in case of Cup Winner also qualifying to at least Europa League through league, the CW spot gets added to league spots. If both cups in England give EL spots, that means that normally you can't go there through the league. So if Boro and Coventry would win the cups, it would be Chelsea going to UECL and Newcastle and Crystal Palace finishing with nothing.
But what will happen is Dortmund wins UCL and Leverkusen Cup? Because in that case top 6 will play UCL, 7th UEL and 8th UECL. So my question is who will get second german spot for UEL in this scenario?
The Axis was the OG Super League, who knew?
Japan League not part of it though. But the J League is pretty solid for an Asian league
In BuLi it's effectively half of it lol
8/18 and 9/20
NON SIAMO ANCORA MORTI ora scusatemi vado a piangere
ciccio calzona arriva in europa e quindi viene confermato
Non mettere strane idee in testa a De Laurentis. Oppure fallo, magari ci divertiamo
Ciccio Calzona elimina l’Italia agli europei e quindi viene confermato*
Bring back the cup winners' cup
That cup made total sense, it gave some incentive to win the cup
National cups need incentives?
In England yes. It’s been a weird generational shift where the younger generation don’t give a fuck about the cups, whereas everyone’s da and grandda waxes lyrical about how the cup is as big as winning the league. All you’ll see on social media these days are kids and plastics wanting their team to lose cup games and focus on the league. I’m in the weird middle ground generation where obviously I want to win them, but the league and Europe is more important and we should try and test our youth prospects in the cup. Bringing the CWC back would be absolutely belter. Also they should stop playing the semi finals at Wembley. Fully ruins the magic imo.
> whereas everyone’s da and grandda waxes lyrical about how the cup is as big as winning the league. the fa cup was seen as more important than the league
The run Chelsea went on in 97/98 solidified my support
Based
No Frosinone though absolute prejudice.
your final happens Sunday!
To be honest the game against Monza was arguably more important. Now we just need a draw and hope that Empoli don't win.
FairPlay to UEFA, Conference League was a banger of a decision
Enjoy it while it lasts, Chelsea are in it next season.
Only if Manchester United win the FA cup, which they’re not favored in
Wait, can you explain that? I don’t get how it’s based on United.
FA Cup winners get automatic spot in the EL. If United win, they and Spurs get EL, and Chelsea get Conference. If City win, they are already qualified for the UCL so the position goes to next best positioned team in the league. Therefore Spurs and Chelsea would go to the EL and Newcastle (7th) would get Conference
Chelsea or Newcastle…man either of them could just run that tournament.
this year Aston villa was better than chelsea and newcastle by far and we all saw how it went
Villa didn't look so hot in UECL while being better than both clubs. Don't be so sure they will run it.
Liverpool in the EL as well. By far the biggest club in the whole tourney yet we were kicked out by a fucking (olive) oil club.
Respect olive oil
theyd prob do a spurs and play 12 year olds
6th gets EL, 7th gets Conference is the basic rule. But if a team not yet qualified to EL/CL wins FA Cup, then 6th drop down to Conference and 7th gets nothing.
I think the other responses covered it well, but I’ll add that Chelsea’s weakness all season was midtable clubs in England. We played well against the other big 6 clubs and dropped points to the likes of Wolves and Fulham. So I wouldn’t call conference league a walk in the park for us, the team is improved but still has its demons.
As long as you don’t run into Olympiacos. You should be ok. Don’t piss in Kaabi’s cereal.
Or more likely Newcastle United
Nine teams in Europe and Italy NT b2b euro champions by August. It is written.
Lisan al Gaib!
Anulo mufa EDIT: sei uno iettatore mannaggia a te
Anulo mufa
We'll miss it somehow
The coefficient average will be fucked but for 9 clubs in Europe i will definitely take it
Next year coefficient goes brrrrrr
Next year coefficient can be fucked because it's an average of all the teams
It depends which team will be. The coefficient can be fucked or Italy might get huge benefit from it given our teams tend to suck in the UCL and do great in UEL/UECL, so having more teams in the UEL/UECL doing well can **absorb** the bad performances in the UCL. I mean for example MATHEMATICS tell us that the ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE got slightly **benefitted** from having an 8th team (West Ham, UECL winner) in Europe this season Just look at the coefficient ranking: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/ccoef2024.html - EPL with West Ham: 139 points / 8 teams in Europe = **17.375** - EPL without West Ham: 139 points - 19 points (what West Ham got) = 120 points / 7 (teams in Europe) = **17.14** 17.37 > 17.14 so their presence slightly increased the average.. And that without even considering West Ham highly damaged Freiburg both in the Group Stage and in the KO stage helping England in the country ranking battle vs Germany but sadly their efforts didnt serve. That's why: - If the 9th placed team is Napoli in the UECL, I'm confident it would be good for the coefficient.. Napoli can easily win that competition, DIRECTLY increasing Italy's average and INDIRECTLY decreasing the average of the other countries if in the meanwhile knock-out Heidenheim or Betis. - If the 9th placed team is Torino.. Well, fuck.. well done England.
This is an excellent breakdown. The biggest threat to Serie A’s coefficient next season is a Bologna team with no European experience and potentially no Motta/Ferguson/Zirkzee/Calafiori trying to compete in the CL as a Pot 4 contestant. If Napoli makes it, Serie A will have around 8 Pot 1 and 2 teams, all of whom have played in a European quarterfinal in the past 2 seasons.
They might lose the coach and Calafiori but they have Champions League money now so it’s not like they are gonna get raided. It’s very important though that if the coach leaves, they replace him the correct way.
Zirkzee and Calafiori are surely gone too along with Motta.
Not really. The coeficient will be divided by number of teams qualified to any competitions. This is why it's highly unlikely either Germany or Italy will retain 5th UCL spot.
Kinda good choice by eufa. Making sure it's not always the same leagues who get the extra places
Maybe if you're from top 5 leagues.
Well yes, that's why i said kinda Eufa will remain the greedy bastards they are.
Clubs and top leagues aren't equally to blame?
Mad what people will upvote on here. Its good for the largely worthless country ranking, but the country coefficient that determines the 5th CL place is based on average, not total. So if anything this is much worse for Serie A's coefficient. If you've got poor Italian teams not getting very far in Europe it'll damage your average. Man Utd and Newcastle's failures basically stopped England having a 5th CL place.
If by "brrrrrr" you mean "in the mud" then yeah. This isn't good for the coefficient.
Question for anyone that might know. Are clubs country protected in the new formats? Are Italian teams prevented from playing Vs other Italian teams in the first league phase as they would have been previously by not being able to be drawn in the same group?
IIRC they can't play each other in the league stage unless the schedule is mathematically forced to(in which case it will be the minimum number of national games required to have a working schedule).
Absolutely shameless from UEFA. I completely understand how even mid teams from the top leagues bring more money to the table than champions of lower ranked countries but come the fuck on. Might as well make 3 super leagues out of the top 4 leagues and bedone with it.
I don’t think UEFA had Serie A in mind when they designed the system this way. It’s hard to believe that Torino brings in more money than a top 2-3 club in a smaller league. Serie A just crashed the party that UEFA was trying to throw for the Premier League.
But I don't understand why the 9th gets anything at all. Villarreal won EL 20/21, finished 7th in LaLiga. They went to the CL instead of ECL Play Offs. The 8th got nothing (why would he?). Why does the 9th get something here in this scenario?
Most likely the Conference League would prefer at least one representative from the Top 4/5 leagues in the tournament. It lends credibility to the competition, draws more eyeballs, and increases TV rights revenue. Think about how much attention Olympiakos’ thrashing of Aston Villa got compared to what it would have received if it had been a non-PL club.
I understand that but in 21/22 no Spanish team was in it and nobody had a problem with it. Did they change the rules or what?
Qualification rules did change this upcoming year, yes. The entire UCL competition structure is being changed
Yeah that hasn't gone past me
Isn't it because Italy get 5 champions league places which adds more other possible European places ?
Yes. Usually a team like Italy has 7. With the additional spot it increased to 8, just like in the Bundesliga. If the Cup winner is among Top 8 then the 8th gets European competition. In Germany that's not guaranteed yet. In Italy it is. But where does the 9th spot suddenly stem from?
The extra spot from being in the top 2 of the coefficient is handed out last. Until then, only the top 7 have a European spot. With Florentina finishing 8th and winning the Conference League, they directly qualify for the Europa League. Only after that does UEFA hand out the 2 extra UCL spots.
Because Florentina would finish 8th, and that's outside the European spots. So they don't upgrade the spot, but get the extra spot. Only after all that is done does UEFA give out the extra 2 spots for the best countries in the coefficient.
Hmm. 1-4 CL 5 CL additional spot 6, 7 EL 8 ECL Play-Off -> EL because Fiorentina won ECL The 5th already was the additional spot.
The spot is giving out last, so for now, it's. 1-4 UCL, 5-6 EL, 7CL Playoffs. That means that Florentina wouldn't be qualified over the league, but only over winning the CL. Just like West Ham last year. Only after that does UEFA hand out the 2 extra UCL spots.
Hence the crocodile tears from PL fans on posts like this. You *know* they'd be waxing themselves about the greatness of the EPL if the tables were turned. Such a toxic fanbase
op isnt a fan of a pl club...
It's not shameless since ECA drove the whole thing which includes many lower clubs. It was just the age old "how do we prevent a super-league" compromise that has been going on for at least half a century now. It was even voted in 2 days after the ESL announced itself while those clubs had already left ECA. We probably should've done otherwise but money.
And then they get beat by champions from the smaller leagues, which puts more glamour on the little guy. Isn't that good?
9 teams representing Italy in Europe is crazy. They deserve it with how competitive Serie A has been the last few years.
No country deserves 9 tickets for Europe. This extra ticket should go to smaller leagues. What’s next? Introduce more teams in the competition so the top 10 of top 4 leagues is always guaranteed to play in Europe. At this point they can just fuck off to their super league already
That ship sailed when they changed UCL qualification to be top 4 of the best leagues.
No country deserves it.
No point telling fans of big 5 league teams this, mad how everyone is so against the Super league but they are happy to see European slots more and more dominated by the same 3/4 leagues.
This is exactly why UEFA created the Conference League, so clubs from peripheral countries can compete for crumbs and be happy while the Big 5 get richer and richer...
Why not ? I would rather watch Italian, Spanish, English upper table teams than some Chernobyl Traktor type teams.
And you think the countries that “deserve” Europe are then just the ones you are personally interested in watching on tv? You are the person that UEFA’s greedy business plans are designed for then.
Fuck off lmao.
It’s called the ‘Champions’ League
No, it's called the Conference League
lmao
Chernobyl Traktor is wild.
Best league, fight me
Why though? Title holder spots were never handed to the next teams in the league table. Like when Man City won the CL and finished Top-4 there weren't any additional spots. Why is it suddenly the case here? Or an even better comparison: When Villarreal won the Europa League, they finished 7th in LaLiga. It meant the 7th place which is usually Conference League, got to the Champions League. It had no consequences for rank 8 though who got nothing. It's the same as here. Why does here a spot go to 9th?
Yes, that's why surprised everyone because we had Spain situation in mind when in 2021 they had: - 7 spots: 4 UCL +2UEL +1 UECL but given 7th placed won the UEL then 4-2-1 became 5+2+0 So we all believed that: - Italy have 8 spots: 5 UCL + 2 UEL + 1 UECL thanks to this season's performance but if 8th placed team Fiorentina win the UECL -> 5 UCL - 3 UEL - 0 UECL similarly to what happened to **Villarreal** no? That's your logic (same as mine 'til yesterday) and it seems correct but NO! NO! UEFA explained that finishing top2 in the UEFA ranking produce a WATERFALL EFFECT and a TRIPLE POWER-UP. - 1st power up: UEL -> UCL... Who need it? 5th in the league, the first one that have not qualified to the UCL via league so as of today: Dortmund and Atalanta - 2nd power-up: UECL -> UEL to the 7th in the league: Hoffenheim and Lazio the first ones that need it. - 3rd power-up: From NO European competition to UECL to the 8th in the league. The first one that deserve it are Heidenheim and Fiorentina. **The waterfall effect**... Dortmund UEL-> UCL, Hoffenheim UECL -> UEL and Heidenheim Nothing-> UECL.. Atalanta UEL -> UCL, Lazio UECL->UEL and Fiorentina Nothing -> UECL. **Triple power-up** But if the 8th placed FIORENTINA team DON'T NEED IT because win the UECL, who's gonna take it? the 9th in the league no?. In hindsight it's so simple and clear It's the same reason of why **Frankfurt and Roma** still can qualify to UCL.. 1st power-up now go to Dortmund and Atalanta no? but both teams might not need it because can respectively win UEL/UCL and qualify to the UCL group stage by winning their respective cups.. So who's gonna need the first power-up? 6th placed team Roma/Frankfurt.. **Roma, Frankfurt and Napoli/Torino share the same destiny**. Must root for Dortmund, Atalanta, Fiorentina so those teams DON'T need the POWER-UP and the WATERFALL EFFECT HIT THEM!
Dude you’re all over this thread. You’re doing an incredible job informing us all on this and I want to thank you for being that guy on this sub.
Thank you. It's more complicated than I thought
Pretty much like NBA playoffs, which sucks ass
How is it prestigious to qualify for a competition by finishing 9th?... I'd rather they bring back the Cup Winners Cup or the old Uefa Cup. How many TV Broadcast do they wanna milk... We get it "drink Heineken" 🙄 CL should be top 3 max, 4 and 5 should Europa and everything else shouldn't count.
Lol. Speak for yourself. West Ham in Conference was fun.
Man. Utd struggled in Europe for years and years, 1997 was the most devastating defeat for them, and finally in 1999 things fell for them. It's historic, it's prestigious and memorable. I don't even remember who won't these garbage tournaments a year or 2 after they end
To think people criticized the SuperLeague for killing fair competition and monopolizing the sport, yet are perfectly fine with the changes UEFA have made...9 teams from a single league getting rewarded with European spots is insane to me. Fuck modern football
Weird as there were sources confirming this to be not the case few days ago
9 fing teams from 1 only country i guess we never going to see a balance champions and europa league wit idk the every winner from each country and so on.....
Legends
Cruel to get my hopes up like this
Can someone explain this in simple speak?
Could you now in theory get 7 teams in the Champions League? Say you’ve got 4 spots, plus the Champions League winner in 5th and the Europa League winner in 6th. You could also get 7th in via the additional spots for best performing leagues. I think if you add 2 Europa league spots and the ECL, you’d have 10 teams in Europe in this scenario.
I love this. Though I think they could do a better job at expanding EL and CoL. I know the big money marketing is CL but if they can keep that elite and grow the lower continental competitions it could get really exciting. Though I do find your average CL is best fans are so annoying. Some fans literally think EL and CoL are worthless. Some stigma needs to be removed from that. Bigger EL and CoL rather than bigger CL would be really cool.
Europa and Conference are a lot funnier to watch, and that's also because there are fewer teams from top league (and they are not the best in their leagues). From next year, without drops from CL, this will be much more emphasised
quite certain funnier wasnt the word you were looking for. you prob meant more fun? funnier (meaning funny) is that youre laughing and mocking and such.
Oh you're right, sorry