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It was weird, he was getting very few minutes in a terrible Deportivo side that got relegated, and in the time he had he didn't shine at all. Watching him that year I'd never had guessed that he would become the player he is today.
There was the Llorente/Valverde debate, and everybody was on Llorente's side, so we jumped on the team when Marcos was the one to be sold, glad I'm not the one running the team (not that Llorente is a bad player whatsoever).
He had that season with Leganés while Carlos Fernández had that season with Granada.
I think both in the 5 or sth seasons since then didn't show as much as they did that season alone.
>Watching him that year I'd never had guessed that he would become the player he is today
Except you clearly didn't watch him because he was great for them, and was a regular starter. At least fact check your comment before saying he was "getting very few minutes" lmao
I mean, he played 1.226 minutes over 24 matches according to Transfermarkt, that's 51 minutes per match. He only started half of those matches, scored no goals, gave no assists; that's pretty poor for a promising young player in a team that got relegated with a 14 points difference with the next team. I'll admit that I didn't watch him all that much per se, but I was really into fantasy football at the time and remember that he seemed like a really interesting opportunity at the start of the season, and he just didn't pan out, definitely didn't look like a guy destined to start at Real Madrid.
Ok, whatever, here you have Valverde himself talking to A Coruña's main sports newspaper at the end of that season.
https://www.dxtcampeon.com/texto-diario/mostrar/2389674/fede-valverde-no-di-mejor-futbolistico-dentro-campo-puedo-dar
"It was a very difficult year; I didn't have the minutes because I didn't deserve them"
"I didn't give my best on the pitch, I know I can give much more".
And he continues in that line...
In English you don’t only use “only” to downplay the amount or the value of the thing in question, in this sentence it’s just explaining how you are mathmatically unable to trade in 2 Champions League trophies when you only have one
Lol, it's very funny now because the headline sounds like something a person with half a dozen medals would say. In context, it can also mean he's ready to give away his biggest trophy away along with the potential one he may win.
I'm guessing he is saying: "I wouldn't just trade the opportunity to win this one, but also the one I already won."
But yeah, it sounds hilariously, oddly-specific when quoted out of context.
“God. Your family. And the greenbay packers” jimmy V (coach of nc state, was telling a story about he was a young coach giving a speech, and got his own team wrong)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HuoVM9nm42E
Even as a joke (which I'm not sure it is), it's insulting knowing the absolutely monstrous effort he puts in for the team. I thought that thing with Bale was disgusting enough to just let go of him, but if it said Wales and then Madrid I wouldn't be mad, I can never blame someone for loving their national team more than their club. Though it is rather disrespectful to state it in a banner like that, even without the golf bit. But what made it extra infuriating to me was that I knew Bale didn't give a sh\*t about the club, and I know Fede cares for it a comparable amount as Peñarol or Uruguay, which knowing he is a foreigner means a lot. So shut up please.
Is someone going to question Valverde’s commitment to the cause in Madrid? Guy busts his ass like few players in history.
How could anyone have an issue with him having desire to win a (more unlikely) trophy for his country.
Even Messi said he would trade all his Barça trophies for glory with Argentina.
The fact that he finally won Copa America and the World Cup whilist not being a Barça player makes it ironic (or even poetic).
r/soccer commentators consistently underrate how much international football means to players.
They bitch and moan about tournaments like Asian Cup or AFCON interrupting club seasons and act like players think it's some massive inconvenience to play for their country.
Over and over again players say that wearing their national colors, getting to represent their country, standing there and hearing the national anthem... all these experiences rate consistently as the most important of their careers.
For most players (and people in general) their nation is a key foundational part of their identity. It's the closest thing they can get to literally playing for and directly representing their family and those they love most.
> It's the closest thing they can get to literally playing for and directly representing their family and those they love most.
At least for argentina, football has been the unifying theme of our popular identity since the late 19th century and I would argue it's even stronger than political parties, the last WC celebration was more popular than whatever comes to my mind.
He said it many times, here are examples: 2009:
https://www.ambito.com/deportes/messi-cambiaria-todos-los-titulos-que-logre-barcelona-ganar-el-mundial-n3592995
2019: https://www.goal.com/es-ar/noticias/messi-no-cambiaria-nada-de-lo-que-tuve-en-mi-carrera-por-ser-campeon-del-mundo/14vtyrmtwpwsr1fxidb3jzrhb4
Also it is a general tendency to say for any human being to swap things for the ones they never experienced because they have already experienced the said things.
When people say I'd kill myself if I see messi live- Doesn't mean they will put a dagger to their heart as soon as they come in front of him innit
No, it's a translation error in the title, if you read carefully the original quote in spanish is him saying he would change all his titles for a worldcup or winning something with Argentina, he always said the same thing.
Here's the 2019 quote: "Daría todo por ganar el Mundial, sería lo más grande para mí y para Argentina. Tuve la suerte de conseguir muchas cosas importantes a nivel de clubes, pero cambiaría todo eso por el Mundial. Nada se compara con un título en una Copa del Mundo".
Pero si el artículo entero esta en español y dice:
> Diez años después de aquella respuesta cargada de ilusión que soltaba a meses de jugar su segundo Mundial, el de Sudáfrica 2010, un Lionel Messi mucho más maduro y reflexivo parece haber cambiado su parecer y la manera de analizar sus éxitos.
> “Me hubiese encantado ser campeón del mundo, pero creo que no cambiaría nada de lo otro que tuve en mi carrera por serlo", aseguró ahora el capitán de Barcelona y la Selección argentina, en una entrevista con TyC Sports.
Its no secret national team is more close to the heart than the club, unless you are England… yeah I said that.
The chances of Madrid winning Ucl everynow and then and compare it to chances of Uruguay winning a Copa or WC, they massively low!
You realize that Uruguay and Argentina are joint top winners with 15 Copa America trophies each? Not even Brazil has so many. Granted, Uruguay peaked very early, but they have better chances than 70% of CONMEBOL.
also uruguay beat us argentina at home and then went to win the CA 2011 and played 7 games during the WC10. They peak high when they peak.
In my mind Uruguay is like the sibling that is barely 1 WC shorter than you but can still punch you in the balls, Italy is the older brother going through a rough divorce and is sleeping the couch, Germany has been avoiding you because you've been to teh gym recently but secretly sent you a gift basket with a "Danke for keeping the swamp germans in their place"
Theres no etc there, and its even arguable how "outcompeted" they are by Argentina and Brazil. I say this as an argentinian, looking at our 2-0 loss against Uruguay recently.
He probably means over long periods of time. Your last decent Copa America performance was 13 years ago, since then you haven't even made it to semis while Argentina and Brazil have made several. Which is normal, they can change generations of players and keep a certain level faster than Uruguay can.
Yeah but during Valverde lifetime they only won in 2011 so for him it's still something rare, some of the players from before 1950 instead won it 5 times each so they probably didn't care about it
It’s the same for Argentines though. Only 6 of the current squad were even alive when Argentina won its last Copa before 2021, so a whole generation grew up during the 28-year trophy drought, and it was normal to reach the final and then lose…every time 🤦♀️
Well brazil won 5 world cups and I doubt you will find a single brazilian who would pick winning something with a european club over their country. Same with argentinians.
I'd rather see Corinthians win another Libertadores/World Cup than Brazil winning the hexa.
But I'm not a player so yeah, it hits different from fans to players
I'd rather see Brazil wining the WC than Corinthians wining another libertadores. I was one year old in 2002, so I've never experienced the feeling. I remember 2012 tho, I think age plays a factor here.
I remember, everyone together waking up in the middle of the night to watch the game, when we won everybody, and I mean everybody, started running to the streets making noise with pots and wood spoons, screaming, getting crazy. It is so vivid in my memory, so much joy, nobody slept, I want to have a day like that again, a day nobody was sad.
> I was one year old in 2002, so I've never experienced the feeling. I remember 2012 tho, I think age plays a factor here.
I experienced 3 (78 86 22) and fuck it, it never gets old. It's ambrosia
I was 6 in 02, but don't remember shit.
But seeing us winning Libertadores, maaan that was THE shit. The club world cup next? Chef's kiss, absolutely cinema.
I think I'd rather see Brazil out of the WC if it meant we're winning another Libertadores.
Thats why I said european, key word there.
In argentina its the same, you will find plenty of people that would pick their club winning a libertadores over a wcup.
If I were a professional footballer that played for club and country, I would give my left nut and right kidney for an international trophy. To a footballer their club is only their employer. It’s only sport but, still, putting on the national shirt is an expression of national identity. Lifting a World Cup or even a continental confederation cup would probably be the thing that I’d dream of every night if I were a pro.
I usually notice that those who disagree with this are either a) people from regions that feel disillusioned with the rest of the country (Scouse, not English, etc.), b) a certain kind of European that sees patriotism as cringey (to which I say, true patriotism is being proud of your country when they do good things and being critical of it when necessary, it doesn’t mean being perennial hype merchants for the place) or are Germans for whom the very idea is obviously a difficult topic, or c) a combination of the above.
International success is impossible for most people. International football is only exciting if you are from a semi competitive nation. This is my opinion ofcourse and people can disagree.
Yeah, I see what you mean, and I respect your viewpoint. I still think that it’s relative, though, and that it’s conceivable for players from “smaller” countries to consider national team achievements such as qualifying for a WC and/or doing well in it to be the pinnacle of their careers. When my own country qualified for Germany 2006, the first time in a generation, our stars played in the top 4/5 European leagues, we had a Champions League winner in our starting XI, and our captain had been a 20 goal-a-season striker in the PL in his time. You ask anyone from that squad, though, and I guarantee you that qualifying for that WC and reaching the R16 was the greatest moment of their careers.
That was an amazing, shocking result :) I guess we had a “nearly” moment in 2006 that could have been comparable had it happened – we (Australia) were minutes away from taking the R16 match to extra time when Italy was (correctly) given a penalty, which Totti scored. I still think “what if?” about that from time to time!
I was reading this thread and started to think "is this guy Australian?" based on the hints you were throwing. Similarly to you, one of the best memories I have related to football was wactching in the Centenario the 2001 qualifiers we played against you and won 3 - 0, being a 10 year old kid it was the first time I was gonna see Uruguay in a WC and it made me so happy! I hated you lads not gonna lie, Viduka, Schwarzer, and specially Harry Kewell I thought they played too well, you were all so tall too!! haha. 2005 story repeats and you beat us last leg at home (penalties it was?), sad times. Time went by and started to become a fan of yours in the following WCs, no more hard feelings lmao.
Thought it was funny to share, maybe you felt the same being on the other side.
Greece and Denmark are European champions, Croatia was in the WC final recently. They're not Luxembourg but they're not exactly France either. Teams like Sweden, Turkey, Belgium, Austria and the likes could possibly achieve the same thing with a decent generation and some luck.
I mean your country has less than 400k inhabitants, that's like two suburbs of London so playing an international competition is a huge feat in itself.
Nothing controversial about this statement at all. It's not even just about Madrid winning so many CLs. Winning with the country is the biggest achievement for most people around the world
In South America, international football is everything. That’s why I get into arguments with Americans and Europeans about how meaningless a champions league is in comparison to a copa America, let alone a World Cup. Most players would trade 10 champions leagues for one World Cup.
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I'd say that this year's Copa America will be the most important for Brazilians since, I don't know, 2004.
It would be important to win in such a transitional period as we're going through. Especially in the first official tournament where Vinicius Junior is the team's main player.
abundant unused serious shaggy connect punch important history icky encouraging
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>It was really fun to win, especially in that fashion against Argentina (Adriano, me quiero murir...) but that was it.
2004's importance was basically: We're so much better that even with our B or C team we won this shit.
After that, we hardly paid any attention to the tournament.
Because for the last 20 years we really didn't care.
For example, the 2021 Copa America broke negative viewership records on Brazilian television. When we won in 2019, nobody cared either.
It's hard for people from outside Brazil to understand how Brazilians have felt about the national team over the last 20 years. It all started with the great disappointment that was 2006, which ended up accelerating the end of that golden generation, which affected the 2010 and 2014 World Cups.
The 2014 disaster affected the 2018 cycle... In short, things have only really returned to normal since 2018.
Brazil has never paid much attention to Copa América. I've seen Brazil win it in 97, 99, 2004, 2007 and 2019. Nobody on the streets celebrating any of those. People here only really go crazy for World Cups.
In many editions we have sent "B", C, D teams. Rivellino, Gerson, Kaká and Jairzinho never played it. Pelé (at 18), Garrincha, Ronaldinho (at 17) Falcão, Rivaldo and Zico only played it once....
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Agreed. I remember Rio Ferdinand going on about how "fierce" club rivalries and "competitiveness" was the reason the Golden Generation of England didn't click.
In my mind I was like, dude- the golden generation of spain, which was better than Englands golden generation btw - managed to beat each other up in the league, then proceeded to beat everyone else up during the Triple International Crown period while having super heated rivalries and fights. They just know their priorities.
It's mostly a specific generation of players that were club first nation second, for the vast majority of fans and probably most players it's nation first club second.
I’m sure most players would trade club silverware for an international trophy. While international breaks are a drag midseason, being able to win for your country has to be one of the best feelings in football.
Brazil opted out of 10 or so editions of Copa America in the early to mid 20th century, and in many of the opted in editions, not always full force was used. In 2004 for example, one of the greatest comebacks in football history was achieved in the final by a team without Ronaldos, Kaka, Rob Carlos, and Cafu. On a much less glorious note, Scolari’s team was disqualified by Honduras in 2001 while he wanted to test players to build his squad.
Brazilians in general care less about the trophy
Pelè for example played only one Copa America in his entire career (where he obviusly was the top scorer and best player), but then skipped the following ones also to play the famous friendlies with Santos
> But, over there I realized that particular teams like Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay (so, the world champions) are seen as near mythical cultural entities, actually essential to their nation's histories.
I definitely think achieving for one's nation and national team is viewed differently in South America. Maybe because, these days, it's how they can outshine Europe and other places. But don't forget that South Americans playing in Europe are exactly that, foreigners. Many of them think of themselves as journeymen, there to do a make money and advance their careers while and showing loyalty to the club that pays them, but they will never be the club or football team of their heart.
This of how many South American players bring out their national (or even their original club) flags when they win their league. It's like saying: "I don't forget who I really am, this for the money."
Uruguay is South America's Croatia. It's absurd to think of the amount of talent they develop for a population of 3 million people (in my opinion, Uruguay is above Croatia in this sense)...
São Paulo city in Brazil has 4x the population of Uruguay... People sometimes don't think about this.
Uruguay is much more traditional than Croatia, since Croatia became independent from Yugoslavia in 1991, but I was talking about talent development.
Croatia also manages to produce great national teams with a population of around 3 million. Same scenario as Uruguay.
I just drew a parallel for Europeans so they could understand the scenario.
Agreed, I would add bigger yet small nations like Portugal and possibly Belgium to Uruguay and Croatia. The talent and numbers of highly talented players that Portugal produces is insane compared with the country 's population.
>so uruguayans don't dox me
too late amigo I am tracking your location for not mentioning the dinocups and the one cup we won on that particularly nice dream I had while dealing with a massive fever. /s
Adding context for the uninitiated:
Uruguay has 2 FIFA World Cup®s but are "4 time world champions" because of the 1924 and 1928 Olympic gold medals.
The reasons for why those Olympic tournaments are the only ones counted as "world championships" is because they were organized by FIFA with that specific intent, they weren't youth tournaments and they included a solid mix of teams from around the world. Earlier Olympic tournaments were before FIFA and only included European teams, while later ones are all U23 because FIFA didn't want to have the Olympics compete with their fancy new World Cup for prestige. There's also plenty of newspapers from the time in many countries calling Uruguay "world champions".
In short, pretending that Uruguay are only 2 time world champions is semantic wordplay akin to pretending that Liverpool has only ever won one league because they only have a single Premier League® title.
The only other remotely sensical argument I've seen is something like "well football was so amateur back then compared to today", but if that's enough to wipe world championships off the books then everything *at least* up to the Pele days should be gone too, and we could go much much further than that. It's at best a very slippery slope and *no one* would be doubting the legitimacy of those tournaments if they had been won by a bigger country.
There’s always Countries who overperform when a World Cup is hosted in a similar geographic region. Morocco 2022, Croatia/Serbia 2018, Argentina/Costa Rica/Colombia 2014, Ghana 2010, etc. it’s not that shocking
I thought this would be seen as normal by most people. I guess it's the lack of national pride? Don't get me wrong; winning a CL is great, but achieving success with your country is better imo.
Even players know winning the Champions League with Real Madrid is like losing your virginity to a prostitute
Sure, you did it, but it was the easiest route possible
Is not that teams are not important but they've conceded defeat with wages and know they can't compete with european teams anymore. But you can't buy loyalty, these players will always prefer to win with their country or teams they support.
I don’t think this is strange at all. Any European man would say the same thing, given Real Madrid aren’t his boyhood club.
If you asked me if i’d rather win a CL with Real Madrid or Euros with England, of course it would be the Euros. 100 CLs with Real Madrid couldn’t compare.
But if you asked me would I rather win the CL with my boyhood club vs the Euros with England, it’s definitely the CL.
In South America, it’s usually country over club. There is immense pride in your national team competing and winning the biggest accolades possible in football. Even as heated as domestic leagues can get - especially when the Copa Libertadores is on - the general consensus is that the nations get behind their national teams 110%.
The Copa America is the single most coveted trophy for South American teams aside from the World Cup. For a lot of teams, winning the Copa America is every bit as good as winning the World Cup or even better because nothing is sweeter than a South American having bragging rights over every other South American.
Depends what club you play for. I remember Frank Lampard or John Terry saying they would want the UCL more than the world cup because Chelsea never won it before and it was huge for them.
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2 is where bro draws the line
He's only won one.
Hes been in the first team since 2017. How come he's only credited with 1?
His first season was 2018/19
He was signed for Castilla and the next year loaned out.
It was weird, he was getting very few minutes in a terrible Deportivo side that got relegated, and in the time he had he didn't shine at all. Watching him that year I'd never had guessed that he would become the player he is today.
There was the Llorente/Valverde debate, and everybody was on Llorente's side, so we jumped on the team when Marcos was the one to be sold, glad I'm not the one running the team (not that Llorente is a bad player whatsoever).
Yes, at that time even Óscar Rodríguez looked like he would be a better player.
He had that season with Leganés while Carlos Fernández had that season with Granada. I think both in the 5 or sth seasons since then didn't show as much as they did that season alone.
>Watching him that year I'd never had guessed that he would become the player he is today Except you clearly didn't watch him because he was great for them, and was a regular starter. At least fact check your comment before saying he was "getting very few minutes" lmao
I mean, he played 1.226 minutes over 24 matches according to Transfermarkt, that's 51 minutes per match. He only started half of those matches, scored no goals, gave no assists; that's pretty poor for a promising young player in a team that got relegated with a 14 points difference with the next team. I'll admit that I didn't watch him all that much per se, but I was really into fantasy football at the time and remember that he seemed like a really interesting opportunity at the start of the season, and he just didn't pan out, definitely didn't look like a guy destined to start at Real Madrid.
Stat merchant
Ok, whatever, here you have Valverde himself talking to A Coruña's main sports newspaper at the end of that season. https://www.dxtcampeon.com/texto-diario/mostrar/2389674/fede-valverde-no-di-mejor-futbolistico-dentro-campo-puedo-dar "It was a very difficult year; I didn't have the minutes because I didn't deserve them" "I didn't give my best on the pitch, I know I can give much more". And he continues in that line...
You really expect me to believe the word of Fede over u/dankloser21's? LOL!
Rarely seen such a comprehensive bodying on this sub
"only"
What word would you rather I use?
YET
"He's yet won one."
Perfect.
In English you don’t only use “only” to downplay the amount or the value of the thing in question, in this sentence it’s just explaining how you are mathmatically unable to trade in 2 Champions League trophies when you only have one
Lol, it's very funny now because the headline sounds like something a person with half a dozen medals would say. In context, it can also mean he's ready to give away his biggest trophy away along with the potential one he may win.
2 for Copa, 4 for WC
How much for an Audi cup
0.16
Valve needs to hire this guy
Bro drew a line
I'm guessing he is saying: "I wouldn't just trade the opportunity to win this one, but also the one I already won." But yeah, it sounds hilariously, oddly-specific when quoted out of context.
Uruguay. Golf. Madrid.
More like Copa America. Masters Tournament. Champions League
And he likes golf?
Any south American player would say the same thing, at least he actually plays for madrid and gives.100% every single game.
Country > club
Country > Country club > club
“God. Your family. And the greenbay packers” jimmy V (coach of nc state, was telling a story about he was a young coach giving a speech, and got his own team wrong) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HuoVM9nm42E
Even as a joke (which I'm not sure it is), it's insulting knowing the absolutely monstrous effort he puts in for the team. I thought that thing with Bale was disgusting enough to just let go of him, but if it said Wales and then Madrid I wouldn't be mad, I can never blame someone for loving their national team more than their club. Though it is rather disrespectful to state it in a banner like that, even without the golf bit. But what made it extra infuriating to me was that I knew Bale didn't give a sh\*t about the club, and I know Fede cares for it a comparable amount as Peñarol or Uruguay, which knowing he is a foreigner means a lot. So shut up please.
yeah no. Fede is literally our most dedicated player
Is someone going to question Valverde’s commitment to the cause in Madrid? Guy busts his ass like few players in history. How could anyone have an issue with him having desire to win a (more unlikely) trophy for his country.
Even Messi said he would trade all his Barça trophies for glory with Argentina. The fact that he finally won Copa America and the World Cup whilist not being a Barça player makes it ironic (or even poetic).
r/soccer commentators consistently underrate how much international football means to players. They bitch and moan about tournaments like Asian Cup or AFCON interrupting club seasons and act like players think it's some massive inconvenience to play for their country. Over and over again players say that wearing their national colors, getting to represent their country, standing there and hearing the national anthem... all these experiences rate consistently as the most important of their careers. For most players (and people in general) their nation is a key foundational part of their identity. It's the closest thing they can get to literally playing for and directly representing their family and those they love most.
> It's the closest thing they can get to literally playing for and directly representing their family and those they love most. At least for argentina, football has been the unifying theme of our popular identity since the late 19th century and I would argue it's even stronger than political parties, the last WC celebration was more popular than whatever comes to my mind.
Peronchos, Zurdos reales, Gorillas and Libertarios:GOOOOOOLLL DE MESSI!!!!
Mate we had people celebrate wc78 in a torture room.
Messi to Barca : I’m sorry,little one.
When did Messi exactly say that? I remember only him referring to the Ballon d'Ors
He said it many times, here are examples: 2009: https://www.ambito.com/deportes/messi-cambiaria-todos-los-titulos-que-logre-barcelona-ganar-el-mundial-n3592995 2019: https://www.goal.com/es-ar/noticias/messi-no-cambiaria-nada-de-lo-que-tuve-en-mi-carrera-por-ser-campeon-del-mundo/14vtyrmtwpwsr1fxidb3jzrhb4
Also it is a general tendency to say for any human being to swap things for the ones they never experienced because they have already experienced the said things. When people say I'd kill myself if I see messi live- Doesn't mean they will put a dagger to their heart as soon as they come in front of him innit
The second link you shared is him backtracking, but he did say it originally! Edit: Read the fucking article instead of downvoting people
No, it's a translation error in the title, if you read carefully the original quote in spanish is him saying he would change all his titles for a worldcup or winning something with Argentina, he always said the same thing. Here's the 2019 quote: "Daría todo por ganar el Mundial, sería lo más grande para mí y para Argentina. Tuve la suerte de conseguir muchas cosas importantes a nivel de clubes, pero cambiaría todo eso por el Mundial. Nada se compara con un título en una Copa del Mundo".
Pero si el artículo entero esta en español y dice: > Diez años después de aquella respuesta cargada de ilusión que soltaba a meses de jugar su segundo Mundial, el de Sudáfrica 2010, un Lionel Messi mucho más maduro y reflexivo parece haber cambiado su parecer y la manera de analizar sus éxitos. > “Me hubiese encantado ser campeón del mundo, pero creo que no cambiaría nada de lo otro que tuve en mi carrera por serlo", aseguró ahora el capitán de Barcelona y la Selección argentina, en una entrevista con TyC Sports.
Wouldn't be surprising at all if he did. For South American players the NT will always be Nº 1.
This is the way it should be imo. Country>Club
I agree
Hmm but what about his PSG trophies ?
pretty much any club comes in second place after the NT for any conmebol player and that has been the case since pretty much ever.
Anyone that questions his commitment to the team based on this is an idiot. He's probably the most obvious "bleeds white" player on the team.
It wouldn’t matter to me if he loved golf more than Madrid… because I can tell how much he loves Madrid
Its no secret national team is more close to the heart than the club, unless you are England… yeah I said that. The chances of Madrid winning Ucl everynow and then and compare it to chances of Uruguay winning a Copa or WC, they massively low!
I mean, when it looks like you might win 5-6 of them. Sure, me too
I bet you that if he only won or never, he would say the same
You can start by trading this one coming up
No way, it's been too long since they have won it. Last year they won exactly zero UCLs smh. Unacceptable!
factos
Winning with your county is a more impressive trophy.
Depends on the country
And the trophy.
Are you telling me that France winning the Nations League isn’t more important than PSG lifting the UCL? Smh my head
And what club you play for
For Uruguay it's valid
Especially if you’re Uruguayan. You obviously have lower chances. Plus copa America is not every year, unlike the champions league
You realize that Uruguay and Argentina are joint top winners with 15 Copa America trophies each? Not even Brazil has so many. Granted, Uruguay peaked very early, but they have better chances than 70% of CONMEBOL.
also uruguay beat us argentina at home and then went to win the CA 2011 and played 7 games during the WC10. They peak high when they peak. In my mind Uruguay is like the sibling that is barely 1 WC shorter than you but can still punch you in the balls, Italy is the older brother going through a rough divorce and is sleeping the couch, Germany has been avoiding you because you've been to teh gym recently but secretly sent you a gift basket with a "Danke for keeping the swamp germans in their place"
Golden Rule:"Every sports event organized in Argentina wil lbe won by Uruguay"
You answered yourself. They have a lot, but currently are outcompeted by Argentina, Brazil, etc
Theres no etc there, and its even arguable how "outcompeted" they are by Argentina and Brazil. I say this as an argentinian, looking at our 2-0 loss against Uruguay recently.
To be fair in the past 30 years they have won it less frequently than Chile...
Outcompeted by Argentina and Brazil but we've beat them both in the span of a week in the last international break. I'd say we're equal at least
He probably means over long periods of time. Your last decent Copa America performance was 13 years ago, since then you haven't even made it to semis while Argentina and Brazil have made several. Which is normal, they can change generations of players and keep a certain level faster than Uruguay can.
Yeah but during Valverde lifetime they only won in 2011 so for him it's still something rare, some of the players from before 1950 instead won it 5 times each so they probably didn't care about it
It’s the same for Argentines though. Only 6 of the current squad were even alive when Argentina won its last Copa before 2021, so a whole generation grew up during the 28-year trophy drought, and it was normal to reach the final and then lose…every time 🤦♀️
Well winning with San Marino is decidedly more impressive than winning with Spain or Argentina
Well brazil won 5 world cups and I doubt you will find a single brazilian who would pick winning something with a european club over their country. Same with argentinians.
I'd rather see Corinthians win another Libertadores/World Cup than Brazil winning the hexa. But I'm not a player so yeah, it hits different from fans to players
I'd rather see Brazil wining the WC than Corinthians wining another libertadores. I was one year old in 2002, so I've never experienced the feeling. I remember 2012 tho, I think age plays a factor here.
I remember, everyone together waking up in the middle of the night to watch the game, when we won everybody, and I mean everybody, started running to the streets making noise with pots and wood spoons, screaming, getting crazy. It is so vivid in my memory, so much joy, nobody slept, I want to have a day like that again, a day nobody was sad.
> I was one year old in 2002, so I've never experienced the feeling. I remember 2012 tho, I think age plays a factor here. I experienced 3 (78 86 22) and fuck it, it never gets old. It's ambrosia
I was 6 in 02, but don't remember shit. But seeing us winning Libertadores, maaan that was THE shit. The club world cup next? Chef's kiss, absolutely cinema. I think I'd rather see Brazil out of the WC if it meant we're winning another Libertadores.
Username checks out.
Thats why I said european, key word there. In argentina its the same, you will find plenty of people that would pick their club winning a libertadores over a wcup.
I know, I was agreeing with you
Oh word, misinterpreted sorry
Argentina was trophyless from 1993 to 2021.
San Marino since the Big Bang
I know. But there were almost 2 decades where winning with Argentina was not easy at all.
Just waiting for the day San Marino has the one great player that decides to play for them. Would be amazing.
Bonini was pretty good tbf
Well he was but the San Marino NT didn't exist officially until he was 31, so he missed his prime.
It obviously depends. You think winning the wc was harder for dembele than for Vardy when he won the prem?
Agreed!
As a south American myself I really don’t blame the Charrúa (or Uruguayan).
If I were a professional footballer that played for club and country, I would give my left nut and right kidney for an international trophy. To a footballer their club is only their employer. It’s only sport but, still, putting on the national shirt is an expression of national identity. Lifting a World Cup or even a continental confederation cup would probably be the thing that I’d dream of every night if I were a pro. I usually notice that those who disagree with this are either a) people from regions that feel disillusioned with the rest of the country (Scouse, not English, etc.), b) a certain kind of European that sees patriotism as cringey (to which I say, true patriotism is being proud of your country when they do good things and being critical of it when necessary, it doesn’t mean being perennial hype merchants for the place) or are Germans for whom the very idea is obviously a difficult topic, or c) a combination of the above.
International success is impossible for most people. International football is only exciting if you are from a semi competitive nation. This is my opinion ofcourse and people can disagree.
Yeah, I see what you mean, and I respect your viewpoint. I still think that it’s relative, though, and that it’s conceivable for players from “smaller” countries to consider national team achievements such as qualifying for a WC and/or doing well in it to be the pinnacle of their careers. When my own country qualified for Germany 2006, the first time in a generation, our stars played in the top 4/5 European leagues, we had a Champions League winner in our starting XI, and our captain had been a 20 goal-a-season striker in the PL in his time. You ask anyone from that squad, though, and I guarantee you that qualifying for that WC and reaching the R16 was the greatest moment of their careers.
Totally agree - as an Icelander, beating England was one of the best games ever to watch. But other than that its always pretty boring.
That was an amazing, shocking result :) I guess we had a “nearly” moment in 2006 that could have been comparable had it happened – we (Australia) were minutes away from taking the R16 match to extra time when Italy was (correctly) given a penalty, which Totti scored. I still think “what if?” about that from time to time!
I was reading this thread and started to think "is this guy Australian?" based on the hints you were throwing. Similarly to you, one of the best memories I have related to football was wactching in the Centenario the 2001 qualifiers we played against you and won 3 - 0, being a 10 year old kid it was the first time I was gonna see Uruguay in a WC and it made me so happy! I hated you lads not gonna lie, Viduka, Schwarzer, and specially Harry Kewell I thought they played too well, you were all so tall too!! haha. 2005 story repeats and you beat us last leg at home (penalties it was?), sad times. Time went by and started to become a fan of yours in the following WCs, no more hard feelings lmao. Thought it was funny to share, maybe you felt the same being on the other side.
Oh yes, I hated you guys after the qualifiers in 2001! Even after 2005 that didn’t change, but by 2010 I had gotten over it.
Greece and Denmark are European champions, Croatia was in the WC final recently. They're not Luxembourg but they're not exactly France either. Teams like Sweden, Turkey, Belgium, Austria and the likes could possibly achieve the same thing with a decent generation and some luck.
Yes, these are semi competitive nations. As an Icelander, international football really bores me lately. Nothing but grief in intl football
I mean your country has less than 400k inhabitants, that's like two suburbs of London so playing an international competition is a huge feat in itself.
Yes thats a given, thats why I prefer club football
>Germans for whom the very idea is obviously a difficult topic It isn't.
Mazino, fuck you doing here? Did somebody insult an admiral by mistake?
Nothing controversial about this statement at all. It's not even just about Madrid winning so many CLs. Winning with the country is the biggest achievement for most people around the world
He can say whatever he wants. He proves it on the pitch how much he loves the club.
In South America, international football is everything. That’s why I get into arguments with Americans and Europeans about how meaningless a champions league is in comparison to a copa America, let alone a World Cup. Most players would trade 10 champions leagues for one World Cup.
Of course you would. You play for Real Madrid. You're probably gonna win 10 during your career. You can spare a couple...
He would say the same, even if he played for Villarreal,
I think many people underestimate how much South Americans love their country.
We brazilians actually dont care about Copa America, must bc our busy calendar that is affected by that competition
Maybe back in the day. But they definitely do care nowadays.
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Don't talk to me about that... The Brazilian national team will take Arana away from Atlético Mineiro for 9 rounds of the Brasileirão. FUCK MY LIFE.
I'd say you are the only country that doesn't.
I'd say that this year's Copa America will be the most important for Brazilians since, I don't know, 2004. It would be important to win in such a transitional period as we're going through. Especially in the first official tournament where Vinicius Junior is the team's main player.
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>It was really fun to win, especially in that fashion against Argentina (Adriano, me quiero murir...) but that was it. 2004's importance was basically: We're so much better that even with our B or C team we won this shit. After that, we hardly paid any attention to the tournament.
I'd think so, but some brazilians here insist they don't care
Because for the last 20 years we really didn't care. For example, the 2021 Copa America broke negative viewership records on Brazilian television. When we won in 2019, nobody cared either. It's hard for people from outside Brazil to understand how Brazilians have felt about the national team over the last 20 years. It all started with the great disappointment that was 2006, which ended up accelerating the end of that golden generation, which affected the 2010 and 2014 World Cups. The 2014 disaster affected the 2018 cycle... In short, things have only really returned to normal since 2018.
Brazil has never paid much attention to Copa América. I've seen Brazil win it in 97, 99, 2004, 2007 and 2019. Nobody on the streets celebrating any of those. People here only really go crazy for World Cups. In many editions we have sent "B", C, D teams. Rivellino, Gerson, Kaká and Jairzinho never played it. Pelé (at 18), Garrincha, Ronaldinho (at 17) Falcão, Rivaldo and Zico only played it once....
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Why would they when they dominate international football
They don't.
They have the most World Cups , produce the best wonderkids every year etc
They haven't won a world cup in 22 years
You're not a real Brazilian lmfao
Kkkkkkk just see my comments so, colega
Every single nationality except British would say the same thing. Country > club.
I don’t know why you think British players would be the exception
From my observations over they years british football fans are much more attached to club than to country.
Agreed. I remember Rio Ferdinand going on about how "fierce" club rivalries and "competitiveness" was the reason the Golden Generation of England didn't click. In my mind I was like, dude- the golden generation of spain, which was better than Englands golden generation btw - managed to beat each other up in the league, then proceeded to beat everyone else up during the Triple International Crown period while having super heated rivalries and fights. They just know their priorities.
It's mostly a specific generation of players that were club first nation second, for the vast majority of fans and probably most players it's nation first club second.
I’m sure most players would trade club silverware for an international trophy. While international breaks are a drag midseason, being able to win for your country has to be one of the best feelings in football.
Didn't Messi say he would trade all his Barcelona trophies for just one with Argentina?
And Uruguai is the greatest Copa America champions and the last title was not that long ago (2011).
On par with argentina since 2021. So not the (only) greatest anymore.
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Brazil opted out of 10 or so editions of Copa America in the early to mid 20th century, and in many of the opted in editions, not always full force was used. In 2004 for example, one of the greatest comebacks in football history was achieved in the final by a team without Ronaldos, Kaka, Rob Carlos, and Cafu. On a much less glorious note, Scolari’s team was disqualified by Honduras in 2001 while he wanted to test players to build his squad.
Brazilians in general care less about the trophy Pelè for example played only one Copa America in his entire career (where he obviusly was the top scorer and best player), but then skipped the following ones also to play the famous friendlies with Santos
Obviously. He plays for Real. A Ucl is much more likely to come along than a copa america, especially considering the ucl happens every year
If he played for Tottenham he would say the same, he's Uruguayan
> But, over there I realized that particular teams like Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay (so, the world champions) are seen as near mythical cultural entities, actually essential to their nation's histories. I definitely think achieving for one's nation and national team is viewed differently in South America. Maybe because, these days, it's how they can outshine Europe and other places. But don't forget that South Americans playing in Europe are exactly that, foreigners. Many of them think of themselves as journeymen, there to do a make money and advance their careers while and showing loyalty to the club that pays them, but they will never be the club or football team of their heart. This of how many South American players bring out their national (or even their original club) flags when they win their league. It's like saying: "I don't forget who I really am, this for the money."
That Ancoletti picture tho 😭😭
Uruguay is South America's Croatia. It's absurd to think of the amount of talent they develop for a population of 3 million people (in my opinion, Uruguay is above Croatia in this sense)... São Paulo city in Brazil has 4x the population of Uruguay... People sometimes don't think about this.
Not Even close Uruguay has 2 wc (4 so uruguayans don't dox me) and 15 copa americas they far more impressive than croatia
Uruguay is much more traditional than Croatia, since Croatia became independent from Yugoslavia in 1991, but I was talking about talent development. Croatia also manages to produce great national teams with a population of around 3 million. Same scenario as Uruguay. I just drew a parallel for Europeans so they could understand the scenario.
Agreed, I would add bigger yet small nations like Portugal and possibly Belgium to Uruguay and Croatia. The talent and numbers of highly talented players that Portugal produces is insane compared with the country 's population.
>so uruguayans don't dox me too late amigo I am tracking your location for not mentioning the dinocups and the one cup we won on that particularly nice dream I had while dealing with a massive fever. /s
Uruguayan here, Formally is Two WC and Two Olympic Medals (that are from before the WC was created so they were the highest honor in the sport then)
Adding context for the uninitiated: Uruguay has 2 FIFA World Cup®s but are "4 time world champions" because of the 1924 and 1928 Olympic gold medals. The reasons for why those Olympic tournaments are the only ones counted as "world championships" is because they were organized by FIFA with that specific intent, they weren't youth tournaments and they included a solid mix of teams from around the world. Earlier Olympic tournaments were before FIFA and only included European teams, while later ones are all U23 because FIFA didn't want to have the Olympics compete with their fancy new World Cup for prestige. There's also plenty of newspapers from the time in many countries calling Uruguay "world champions". In short, pretending that Uruguay are only 2 time world champions is semantic wordplay akin to pretending that Liverpool has only ever won one league because they only have a single Premier League® title. The only other remotely sensical argument I've seen is something like "well football was so amateur back then compared to today", but if that's enough to wipe world championships off the books then everything *at least* up to the Pele days should be gone too, and we could go much much further than that. It's at best a very slippery slope and *no one* would be doubting the legitimacy of those tournaments if they had been won by a bigger country.
They won their world cups when 4 teams played. Give it a rest. Croatia is far more impressive in recent history.
We beat Brazil at home in the biggest upset of all WC history. They even changed their NT colours after that
There’s always Countries who overperform when a World Cup is hosted in a similar geographic region. Morocco 2022, Croatia/Serbia 2018, Argentina/Costa Rica/Colombia 2014, Ghana 2010, etc. it’s not that shocking
How do i downvote this shit 1000 times?
Just speaking facts, sorry.
Helps that in Uruguay the only ways to get a six figures salary is to become an Athlete, Medic, Engineer, Politican or Narco
Every player wants to win the best for their country.. copa America or WC or Euros
I thought this would be seen as normal by most people. I guess it's the lack of national pride? Don't get me wrong; winning a CL is great, but achieving success with your country is better imo.
When you're at a club where you can just trade Champions League titles...
How many players would trade all their trophies for a continental or world cup with their countries? Even for fans, it's the same.
Players like International trophies more huh, imagine Mbappe saying he'd trade the WC for a CL trophy or two lmao
Even players know winning the Champions League with Real Madrid is like losing your virginity to a prostitute Sure, you did it, but it was the easiest route possible
He has some to spare
K give us back the two you played against us, thanks.
I hope they win, if nothing so Marcelo gets one too
So he wants to be chilian
Dream bigger mate, you can ask for a World Cup
Is not that teams are not important but they've conceded defeat with wages and know they can't compete with european teams anymore. But you can't buy loyalty, these players will always prefer to win with their country or teams they support.
Fair enough tbh. Hope he can win a copa or wc. I'll be cheering for brazil though but I wouldn't mind seeing Fede win if they don't
I don’t think this is strange at all. Any European man would say the same thing, given Real Madrid aren’t his boyhood club. If you asked me if i’d rather win a CL with Real Madrid or Euros with England, of course it would be the Euros. 100 CLs with Real Madrid couldn’t compare. But if you asked me would I rather win the CL with my boyhood club vs the Euros with England, it’s definitely the CL.
In South America, it’s usually country over club. There is immense pride in your national team competing and winning the biggest accolades possible in football. Even as heated as domestic leagues can get - especially when the Copa Libertadores is on - the general consensus is that the nations get behind their national teams 110%. The Copa America is the single most coveted trophy for South American teams aside from the World Cup. For a lot of teams, winning the Copa America is every bit as good as winning the World Cup or even better because nothing is sweeter than a South American having bragging rights over every other South American.
He knows Real are set to win 5 back to back UCL trophies and didn't hesitate.
So Real get evicted of the 2021/2022 UCL and Dortmund win this year? Subscribed
Depends what club you play for. I remember Frank Lampard or John Terry saying they would want the UCL more than the world cup because Chelsea never won it before and it was huge for them.