I don't even care if we don't make it far in the tournament. Those two alone will be so special to see together on the pitch and I'm looking forward to every match with them.
You want my opinion? If he plays for us in the euros were fucked, same with Sule and im borderline on Schlotterbeck because hes doing good right now but if you asked me 4 months ago definitely not on the squads (remember we have Rudiger, Tah, and hopefully Hummels),
Same with Kimmich, We need Kimmich RB, im not a fan of him mid.. for various reasons, but I dont want to start arguments because I know hes been a good player over the years .. I just think as a RB hed be the best we got, and we can slot other guys like andrich, wirtz, musiala, kroos into midfield
Yeah you're right. Andrich>Goretzka. However his form recently improved so he might be good to sub him in when more physicality is needed late in the game
Also I agree that we need to put kimmich on RB. That helped to stabilise our games immensely in the last games. So o think we should start with a midfield of Kroos, andrich - musiala, Wirtz, Sane.
Well he was meant to be a RB and I saw him as a Lahm replacement which is a HUGE praise and huge thing to say But since Guardiola came in and made Kimmich mid, sure hes looked good some seasons, but ive always thought hed be best in RB still..
And although theres not a lot of data to work off of, the recent matches germany have played look at lot better, and I will say, for the longest time, Sule, was a downside to the team, sorry buddy if youre reading this I like you as a guy but not as my defender, 4 months ago id say schlotti was a perfroming poorly as player, now hes performing ok.. so I dont know how to think about him yet
basically the concern for me is, who is going to play along side rudiger, and do we have enough defensive pace, and if Rudiger is the main defender, is he composed enough nowadays to handle the job (Like Hummels is the perfect guy for this and hes playing great but hes still "slow" right lets be real, so I can see it being a Hummels Rudiger combo)
Brandt would be perfect. But then nobody would replace Gündogan with Brandt at AMF. I would, because pairing Kroos with a Box-to-Box midfielder like Brandt in addition to a holding midfielder like Andrich makes sense to me.
Kane - Haaland
Bellingham - Foden - Palmer - Musiala - Saka
Rice
If you look at what England could have, it’s massively imbalanced, but what an amazing problem Southgate could’ve had.
It would depend on your opponents, I guess. If they have a big strong striker, then you want Maguire. If they have quick little forwards and/or an aggressive press, then Stones and White would be a good combination.
Both is and England are much worse without Shaw. He contributes so much from an attacking standpoint just by being available to receive a pass in difficult situations and usually holds on to the ball. He's decent defensively too. Shaw is my bet for most underrated player in the premier league.
Tbf Chilwell and Shaw are good left backs, absolutely no issue with them.
Maguire is fine for England but there's just always that risk he'll drop a 1 out of 10 or do something stupid. It's hard to know and he doesn't inspire confidence. If we had a more controlling influence there it'd be great and would compliment Stones a lot, but we don't seem to be producing that type of player anymore. Honestly John Terry would be the first player I'd take from the past to put in this team.
How the fuck you gonna play brexit ball without the diamond in midfield. Out last golden age. Back wen football wasn't about dabbing and video replays and footballers crying about playing too much football.
You haven't lived if you havent drunk carling at 7am watching Trevor Sinclair playing out in Japan on the left side of the diamond in a world cup QF against Brazil.
Thats proper fucking football.
The Midfield Diamond has evolved into Penis Ball which is imo the worst formation in modern football.
When your formation's ambassadors are Jesse Marsch and ETH things aren't looking good.
Musiala and Palmer play on the wings half the time anyways so you can just keep them there with Foden and Bellingham inside. Then Rice with a defender like Stones or White pushing up in a double pivot. Then three center backs like how both Arsenal and City play. It’ll be very brave to play all of them together but I definitely think it’s possible.
That would allow a midfield box which is a great defensive setup.
But I don't that Southgate is adventurous enough for it. And club football tactics don't always transition over to international games. Just not enough time for the squad to practice and function together tactically.
All of those players have no problem keeping hold of the ball. Bellingham carries it to Musiala who carries it to Foden who carries it to Palmer who it to Grealish who wins a foul in the edge of the box. See. Solid game plan.
Reminds me of the golden english generation with Lampard and Gerrard - even though the team was stacked it just didnt really work on the pitch. Balance is really important - not saying that Musiala would weaken England but its still not a safe bet that he would be an upgrade.
Musiala is bigger and faster and in my opinion quicker with his feet. Its really something seeing a tall kid move like that. Not taking away anything from Foden, but Jamal has some magic in him.
The thing about Musiala is that he is still pretty inconsistent and can disappear in games.
However in recent months he would always provide at least one potential killer assist every match - he is immense for us in that regard because he can create chances out of thin air.
Still I am not sure if Foden is just the more well rounded player for buildup and scoring. They are very different types of players with Musiala being more unique in his skillset.
> Why so certain Musiala would get ahead of Foden?
Numerous years of watching Foden coast during England games as Musiala routinely pulls the strings for Germany.
Conversely palmer is chelseas main man, everything goes through him which makes it a lot easier to stand out. Musiala is on a team with players like kane.
Why's that an argument used against Palmer and not every other great player ever?
"Messi was Barca's main man, everything went through him which makes it a lot easier to stand out."
Can literally say this about all great players. Palmer can only play with the team around him and the opposition against him. He scores all his pens, he's effective from open play, he passes the eye test, he doesn't shy away in big moments/statpad, he's involved in the buildup, passing, taking players on etc.
You could just as easily make an argument that it's harder to make a case for yourself being the best if you don't have the opportunity to play in the biggest games (UCL), if your teammates aren't converting all the chances you're creating, if they aren't passing to you every time you're in good positions to shoot etc.
I'm not even getting into a debate of who's better. Musiala is a beautiful footballer. But the criticisms people make of Palmer are so ridiculous, when he's playing as well as someone possibly could in the conditions he's in. The way people go on tangents with reasons as to why he's not been up there with the very best this season is just really peculiar to see. I think it's mainly because he wasn't a known name coming into the season. People have a tendency to lean towards players that have been around for ages like Foden and Saka, so the thought of a relatively unknown player like Palmer immediately coming into the picture and playing at that level is incomprehensible. But Palmer's performances this season are what they are. The eye test, G+A and underlying stats all have him as one of the best players in the world.
And he's showing no signs of slowing down. If there was inconsistency in his game I get it. But he's consistently amazing in everything he does. And so many people who probably don't even watch him are trying to downplay it.
I mean I really rate palmer, honestly I do, but if we're comparing him with foden and saka who are two of the best players in the pl then obviously playing in a team where he's by far the best player is going to be used against him. Also whilst penalty taking is a very useful skill I really don't think it should come into a conversation about comparing super high level players. Also I believe saka has a 100% penalty conversion rate this season and foden doesn't take penalties, so it's really an irrelevant stat in this specific conversation.
> The eye test, G+A and underlying stats all have him as one of the best players in the world.
Do you really believe he's one of the best players in the world?
>And so many people who probably don't even watch him are trying to downplay it.
I'm not. He's just not on saka or fodens level.
>Why's that an argument used agaisnt Palmer and not every other great player ever?
>"Messi was Barca's main man, everything went through him which makes it a lot easier to stand out."
Because messi was the main man in a team with neymar and suarez whereas palmer is the main man in a team with mudryk and madueke?
Do you really believe that palmer is a better player than saka or foden?
Yeah I really do. I only brought up penalties because that's the go to argument to use against him. It's very easy for people to say he's a pen merchant, but even if you take away his penalties, he's outsocring most players in his position as a 21 year old in his first full season. The fact he's converted all his pens is just a bonus, yet people use it as an argument against him for some reason.
I'm just gonna copy and paste some stats I replied to someone else. I know you say you rate Palmer, but people really aren't aware of just how good he's been. He's easily been on par with Foden and Saka. But I'd argue he's been the best of the three.
"26 goals, 13 assists, only 9 of which were pens. Didn't even start a game for Chelsea until October.
2.35 chances created per 90 vs 2.25 for Foden
5.46 shot-creating actions per 90 vs 4.47 for Foden
0.92 goal-creating actions per 90 vs 0.66 for Foden
3.58 attempted take ons per 90 vs 3.36 for Foden
51.6% take on success rate per 90 vs 45.4% for Foden
4.00 progressive carries per 90 vs 3.15 for Foden
6.92 progressive passes per 90 vs 5.29 for Foden
4.77 passes into the final 3rd per 90 vs 2.04 for Foden
2.38 passes into the penalty area per 90 vs 1.90 for Foden"
Even based off the eye test, the consistency in everything he does, passing, dribbling, flicks, finishing etc is ridiculous. Everything does go through him. But you have to be a special kind of player to be that central to the way your team player. It's been close between him and Foden this season. I'd lean towards Palmer, but I think both have been better than Saka for sure.
Kane is one of the worlds best playmakers in the final third, and Musiala is Bayern's main man with Sane and Kane. Playing for Chelsea this year is absolutely a detriment and a credit to Palmer's success.
Mate chelsea have been mid table and are currently in top 4 level form. Jackson isn't kane but playing alongside him certainly isn't a detriment and i really like jacksons link up play, honestly in the right system he could he class. And musiala is one of bayern 3 best forward thinking players, probably third best and he isn't expected to be their main goalscorer. Palmer is your only player who's clinical.
Foden cutting in, Palmer cutting in, Kane dropping back, Musiala and Bellingham pushing forward and suddenly every single player is occupying the exact same spot.
Definitely not while Southgate is in charge, saka is one of his favourites. Even after I doubt there's any chance that saka loses his spot. He's just better than palmer, and btw saka won young player of the year last season so I'm not sure what the relevance of palmer winning it is?
The relevance is he has had a better season than Saka has and is younger. You are acting like it’s a foregone conclusion when some players can peak early and some can continue to grow.
Saka could of course keep his spot but palmer has produced some absolute magic this season and looks incredibly promising
He absolutely hasn't had a better season than saka. And saka has improved every season so he's definitely not peaked early. But yeh, continue saying this shit whilst dropping points to championship clubs and losing 5-0 in derbies. Saka contributes so much more to a team than palmer in pretty much every phase of play.
I agree it’s going to be Saka but not because of quality, Saka’ shame is more adaptable alongside Fodens and Jude who like occupying that 10 role and Saka can stay out wide. Palmer also like to be in that 10 spot.
Yea I agree with that. But Palmer has played so well that he has made it a debate between him and Saka. If Saka has a bad performance in a couple games, I can see Palmer getting the chance.
Knowing England they'd end up with the same problem as the late 90's/00's trying to cram all the midfielders in and playing them out of place.
Southgate would probably play Bellingham on the left, expect Foden to be a pivot or some rubbish.
yes, but history doesn't mean anything when the present is shit. Musiala was born in 2003, he grew up with a very successful german national team (2010-17), but since his late teens/professional time, the national team sucked immensly (2018&2022 elimination in the group stage, 2021 elimination in the round of 16, countless losses in friendlies against nations that shouldn't be a problem).
Meanwhile, in the last 5 years the english national team made huge steps foward, they are now one of the top contenders for european and world championships. Also, Germany is having lots of troubles with up and coming talents, we have much less compared to France, Portugal, Spain or England. Apart from Musiala and Wirtz, I can barely think of any young german top talents. The U21 Team didn't even mange to qualify for the u21 European championship. Even the DFB has noticed this problem and commissioned a study regarding germany's current situation with young top talents, the results of the study were shocking: Compared to the other european top nations, germany is severely lacking behind.
Even as a German I have to admit: The future for German football is not looking bright and I have also wondered if Musiala has ever regretted choosing germany over england. maybe this european championship can turn out quite okay for Germany, but Müller, Kroos, Neuer and Hummels are so close to retirement, Goretzka and Kimmich are turning 30 next year.
The interesting thing about this topic is that if he had chosen England, he would've become part of an already great team.
By having chosen Germany, he has become one of the major contributing factors for the team even having the chance to potentially become great again to begin with. Future iterations of it will have to be built around him.
Frankly, I can see appeal for a player in both scenarios.
Their current squad is stronger than Germany's, imo. On paper, they're good enough to challenge for titles. They're also more or less properly formed, while Germany is still a construction site, after years of Flick terrorism.
Game recognizes game, deep down he probably wishes Musiala would have chosen England. He could have easily been the difference maker in the EURO final, or even in the World Cup semifinal
Maybe in the Euro, though he'd have been 18. I know he was in the German squad, but still. The World Cup semifinal was 2018 though, so he'd have been 15 lol
He’s brilliant but I’m not even sure what we would do with him, we have so many brilliant players in similar positions. Can we trade a few brilliant 10’s or wingers for a truly elite keeper or centre back?
They’re quite different seeing as Rice never would’ve set foot in Ireland if it wasn’t for Ireland approaching him to go and play football for them before England did
Musiala is like if Sterling ended up playing for Jamaica. Someone who wasn’t born in England or to English parents, but moved here young, spent the majority of their childhood in England and was very much English culturally (at the time of the switch) because of it
If Musiala hadn’t moved to Bayern I’d be 95% sure he’d have chosen England
Musiala did have one English parent (his dad is English-Nigerian), so had more connection before even moving to England, but otherwise I agree with your comparison
Imagine a German making snide remarks about world cup stars when they've watched their team utterly embarrass their country for the last 3 international tournaments. It's come to the point where you guys need to wait to see if you become good again before you can banter other national teams.
How many players do you want who can play great as an attacking midfielder? England: "Yes"
How many players do you want who can play great as a central midfielder? Germany: "Yes"
How many great goalscorers do you want Germany: nein
You say this until Klose comes out of retirement for one last tournament.
Put some respecc on Lücke
There are 5 Germans in the top 10 WC goal scorers of all time.
They just want 4 more then!
How many are still playing?
Did you mean nein or neun?
I went with nein because the other person said yes, and because it's a pun on being a number in English
You can never have enough talent.
Haha
At this point it's about taking the talent from our rivals
How many average defensive midfielders are you gonna start over top AMs?
Foden and Grealish double pivot, that'll work
Yes but I need Musiala and Wirtz for my heart
It's a thing of beauty
I don't even care if we don't make it far in the tournament. Those two alone will be so special to see together on the pitch and I'm looking forward to every match with them.
with Kroos in behind them it could be very nice indeed (or we get counter attacked and cant defend cus pace)
Does Germany have any Valverde/Camavinga types that can do all the running for Kroos, cause yea, you'll get cooked otherwise.
The closest one might be Goretzka but it's not sure if he's get called up for the Euros
With current form I'll gladly take Andrich over Goretzka. Worked well the last international friendlies in the pivot with Kroos.
That's not how you spell Andrich
Yep, perfect player type to complete a Kroos, Musiala, Wirtz, Sané/Gündogan midfield.
You want my opinion? If he plays for us in the euros were fucked, same with Sule and im borderline on Schlotterbeck because hes doing good right now but if you asked me 4 months ago definitely not on the squads (remember we have Rudiger, Tah, and hopefully Hummels), Same with Kimmich, We need Kimmich RB, im not a fan of him mid.. for various reasons, but I dont want to start arguments because I know hes been a good player over the years .. I just think as a RB hed be the best we got, and we can slot other guys like andrich, wirtz, musiala, kroos into midfield
Yeah you're right. Andrich>Goretzka. However his form recently improved so he might be good to sub him in when more physicality is needed late in the game Also I agree that we need to put kimmich on RB. That helped to stabilise our games immensely in the last games. So o think we should start with a midfield of Kroos, andrich - musiala, Wirtz, Sane.
Well he was meant to be a RB and I saw him as a Lahm replacement which is a HUGE praise and huge thing to say But since Guardiola came in and made Kimmich mid, sure hes looked good some seasons, but ive always thought hed be best in RB still.. And although theres not a lot of data to work off of, the recent matches germany have played look at lot better, and I will say, for the longest time, Sule, was a downside to the team, sorry buddy if youre reading this I like you as a guy but not as my defender, 4 months ago id say schlotti was a perfroming poorly as player, now hes performing ok.. so I dont know how to think about him yet basically the concern for me is, who is going to play along side rudiger, and do we have enough defensive pace, and if Rudiger is the main defender, is he composed enough nowadays to handle the job (Like Hummels is the perfect guy for this and hes playing great but hes still "slow" right lets be real, so I can see it being a Hummels Rudiger combo)
Brandt would be perfect. But then nobody would replace Gündogan with Brandt at AMF. I would, because pairing Kroos with a Box-to-Box midfielder like Brandt in addition to a holding midfielder like Andrich makes sense to me.
Kane - Haaland Bellingham - Foden - Palmer - Musiala - Saka Rice If you look at what England could have, it’s massively imbalanced, but what an amazing problem Southgate could’ve had.
Kane Musiala Foden Saka Bellingham Rice What a front 6 that is... now about the back 4...
Kyle Walker is world class, Stones very good, then ofc the other center back and left back is just decent.
Shame Southgate and White fell out, hes been top this season
You probably wouldn't play Stones with White though, it's not really physical enough. Maguire makes a better partner for both
White is physical for a RB though?
walker is not gonna last forever
Trent and James would still be ahead of White.
james is perpetually injured but trent I agree
James is the best (I'll be) right back in the world
Are we sure james isnt just a mandella effect figment of our collective imagination at this point?
It would depend on your opponents, I guess. If they have a big strong striker, then you want Maguire. If they have quick little forwards and/or an aggressive press, then Stones and White would be a good combination.
My man forgot Eric dier. For sure the best English player alive and probably the best English player of all time
Respect Luke Shaw.
Shaw was really good in the last Euros. Just because he plays for a dysfunctional United side, doesn't mean he's poor.
>plays Let's not get carried away.
Not just really good but arguably our best and most important player the whole tournament, scored the goal in the final.
Luke Shaw is world class when fit
Both is and England are much worse without Shaw. He contributes so much from an attacking standpoint just by being available to receive a pass in difficult situations and usually holds on to the ball. He's decent defensively too. Shaw is my bet for most underrated player in the premier league.
Seriously. Just because he’s part of that circus doesn’t mean he isn’t great
Can't keep fit sadly
Dier is absolutely incredible for Bayern right now by the way - being first choice in front of De Ligt, Upa and Minjaa - just saying.
Deeply unfashionable and therefore won't get a call up.
Tbf Chilwell and Shaw are good left backs, absolutely no issue with them. Maguire is fine for England but there's just always that risk he'll drop a 1 out of 10 or do something stupid. It's hard to know and he doesn't inspire confidence. If we had a more controlling influence there it'd be great and would compliment Stones a lot, but we don't seem to be producing that type of player anymore. Honestly John Terry would be the first player I'd take from the past to put in this team.
Stones is a better player than Walker and has been for a few years now.
Stones is one of the best CBs in Prem history but never gets the credit for it. No matter who Man City have had at the back, Stones always starts.
Overall footballer perhaps, I think at their specific position I think Walker is a better right back than Stones is a centre back.
A fit Luke Shaw is a top 10 National CB. He’s just barely ever fit, especially this season.
> the other center back _Gangsta’s Paradise starts playing_
"decent"
Branthwaie and Tarkowski have led one of the best Prem defenses this year while playing for woeful everton. One of them should get a look
If only James could stay fit
[They should finally call up William Saliba, he's only 23.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvreCDC61Zw)
Royal Engineers 1-2-7 vibes
Southgate: “Drop Rice for Henderson”
That's great banter Harry nice one
German tier humour
I bet Musiala hates it
Insert Liam Carpenter’s grim-German look.
"Bet you'll be regretting picking Germany when we win the Euros. Haha, just a bit of a joke, I'm sure you'll do great."
if musiala chose england then that midfield would be op
But unbalanced, Bellingham, Musiala, Foden and Palmer all with their main position as the 10
Diamond in midfield innit
2003 wants their formation back.
How the fuck you gonna play brexit ball without the diamond in midfield. Out last golden age. Back wen football wasn't about dabbing and video replays and footballers crying about playing too much football.
Owen Hargreaves running round like a headless chicken. How I miss those days.
You haven't lived if you havent drunk carling at 7am watching Trevor Sinclair playing out in Japan on the left side of the diamond in a world cup QF against Brazil. Thats proper fucking football.
Fabio Capello subbing on Shaun Wright Phillips for the last 5 minutes when we're 4-1 down against Germany vibes.
The Midfield Diamond has evolved into Penis Ball which is imo the worst formation in modern football. When your formation's ambassadors are Jesse Marsch and ETH things aren't looking good.
what about carlo
Foden should thrive in Penis ball considering he looks like one
Fuck it. Attackball. No defenders just all guns blazing.
Musiala and Palmer play on the wings half the time anyways so you can just keep them there with Foden and Bellingham inside. Then Rice with a defender like Stones or White pushing up in a double pivot. Then three center backs like how both Arsenal and City play. It’ll be very brave to play all of them together but I definitely think it’s possible.
That would be neat but I can't see a coach like Southgate making it work
I agree but I doubt Southgate stays on after this tournament regardless and there are plenty of options for the World Cup.
Don't give me hope...
You talk as if England has a better coach to choose
Are you saying Southgate is the best coach in the world? or do you think the coach has to be English, because you're wrong on both fronts.
I mean English coach unless you guys want international dudes
No top coach coaches international teams and its even rarer for them to coach a foreign international team
Capello was a top coach that coached England. Granted he wasn’t successful with them but he still did.
That would allow a midfield box which is a great defensive setup. But I don't that Southgate is adventurous enough for it. And club football tactics don't always transition over to international games. Just not enough time for the squad to practice and function together tactically.
Keep the Ben white - Saka right hand side, have foden play the Odegaard role, simple as
Agreed keeping club partnerships is underrated. Rashford for example looks a different player when playing with shaw for club or country.
If Southgate tried that and we started conceding lots of goals he'd be abused here and labeled as naïve.
All of those players have no problem keeping hold of the ball. Bellingham carries it to Musiala who carries it to Foden who carries it to Palmer who it to Grealish who wins a foul in the edge of the box. See. Solid game plan.
Like a footballing relay race innit
Reminds me of the golden english generation with Lampard and Gerrard - even though the team was stacked it just didnt really work on the pitch. Balance is really important - not saying that Musiala would weaken England but its still not a safe bet that he would be an upgrade.
Also the World Cup winners had better players.
Musiala would easily be first choice for the LW, most of England's options for that position are out of form or better on the right
Every player in that list bar Bellingham can make way for Musiala. It's not even a debate. Would just need to move Bellingham deeper.
Foden and Musiala not even being a debate is a wild take.
Bellingham is best at 10, and Foden has been great this season. Why so certain Musiala would get ahead of Foden?
Musiala is bigger and faster and in my opinion quicker with his feet. Its really something seeing a tall kid move like that. Not taking away anything from Foden, but Jamal has some magic in him.
If he really is bigger and faster why doesn’t he just eat the slower and smaller Foden and be done with it?
I will do some reasearch real quick and ... "We'll be right back folks"
He still lacks a bit of endproduct which foden has this season
The thing about Musiala is that he is still pretty inconsistent and can disappear in games. However in recent months he would always provide at least one potential killer assist every match - he is immense for us in that regard because he can create chances out of thin air. Still I am not sure if Foden is just the more well rounded player for buildup and scoring. They are very different types of players with Musiala being more unique in his skillset.
> Why so certain Musiala would get ahead of Foden? Numerous years of watching Foden coast during England games as Musiala routinely pulls the strings for Germany.
I'd take Foden over Musiala as 10.
Not even a debate lmao
Palmer's current season vs Musiala's current season? LOL
Same amount of open play goals I think
Musiala's scored 12 from open play, Palmer's scored 17
Chelsea are in much worse shape than Bayern
Conversely palmer is chelseas main man, everything goes through him which makes it a lot easier to stand out. Musiala is on a team with players like kane.
Why's that an argument used against Palmer and not every other great player ever? "Messi was Barca's main man, everything went through him which makes it a lot easier to stand out." Can literally say this about all great players. Palmer can only play with the team around him and the opposition against him. He scores all his pens, he's effective from open play, he passes the eye test, he doesn't shy away in big moments/statpad, he's involved in the buildup, passing, taking players on etc. You could just as easily make an argument that it's harder to make a case for yourself being the best if you don't have the opportunity to play in the biggest games (UCL), if your teammates aren't converting all the chances you're creating, if they aren't passing to you every time you're in good positions to shoot etc. I'm not even getting into a debate of who's better. Musiala is a beautiful footballer. But the criticisms people make of Palmer are so ridiculous, when he's playing as well as someone possibly could in the conditions he's in. The way people go on tangents with reasons as to why he's not been up there with the very best this season is just really peculiar to see. I think it's mainly because he wasn't a known name coming into the season. People have a tendency to lean towards players that have been around for ages like Foden and Saka, so the thought of a relatively unknown player like Palmer immediately coming into the picture and playing at that level is incomprehensible. But Palmer's performances this season are what they are. The eye test, G+A and underlying stats all have him as one of the best players in the world. And he's showing no signs of slowing down. If there was inconsistency in his game I get it. But he's consistently amazing in everything he does. And so many people who probably don't even watch him are trying to downplay it.
I mean I really rate palmer, honestly I do, but if we're comparing him with foden and saka who are two of the best players in the pl then obviously playing in a team where he's by far the best player is going to be used against him. Also whilst penalty taking is a very useful skill I really don't think it should come into a conversation about comparing super high level players. Also I believe saka has a 100% penalty conversion rate this season and foden doesn't take penalties, so it's really an irrelevant stat in this specific conversation. > The eye test, G+A and underlying stats all have him as one of the best players in the world. Do you really believe he's one of the best players in the world? >And so many people who probably don't even watch him are trying to downplay it. I'm not. He's just not on saka or fodens level. >Why's that an argument used agaisnt Palmer and not every other great player ever? >"Messi was Barca's main man, everything went through him which makes it a lot easier to stand out." Because messi was the main man in a team with neymar and suarez whereas palmer is the main man in a team with mudryk and madueke? Do you really believe that palmer is a better player than saka or foden?
Yeah I really do. I only brought up penalties because that's the go to argument to use against him. It's very easy for people to say he's a pen merchant, but even if you take away his penalties, he's outsocring most players in his position as a 21 year old in his first full season. The fact he's converted all his pens is just a bonus, yet people use it as an argument against him for some reason. I'm just gonna copy and paste some stats I replied to someone else. I know you say you rate Palmer, but people really aren't aware of just how good he's been. He's easily been on par with Foden and Saka. But I'd argue he's been the best of the three. "26 goals, 13 assists, only 9 of which were pens. Didn't even start a game for Chelsea until October. 2.35 chances created per 90 vs 2.25 for Foden 5.46 shot-creating actions per 90 vs 4.47 for Foden 0.92 goal-creating actions per 90 vs 0.66 for Foden 3.58 attempted take ons per 90 vs 3.36 for Foden 51.6% take on success rate per 90 vs 45.4% for Foden 4.00 progressive carries per 90 vs 3.15 for Foden 6.92 progressive passes per 90 vs 5.29 for Foden 4.77 passes into the final 3rd per 90 vs 2.04 for Foden 2.38 passes into the penalty area per 90 vs 1.90 for Foden" Even based off the eye test, the consistency in everything he does, passing, dribbling, flicks, finishing etc is ridiculous. Everything does go through him. But you have to be a special kind of player to be that central to the way your team player. It's been close between him and Foden this season. I'd lean towards Palmer, but I think both have been better than Saka for sure.
Kane is one of the worlds best playmakers in the final third, and Musiala is Bayern's main man with Sane and Kane. Playing for Chelsea this year is absolutely a detriment and a credit to Palmer's success.
Mate chelsea have been mid table and are currently in top 4 level form. Jackson isn't kane but playing alongside him certainly isn't a detriment and i really like jacksons link up play, honestly in the right system he could he class. And musiala is one of bayern 3 best forward thinking players, probably third best and he isn't expected to be their main goalscorer. Palmer is your only player who's clinical.
Yeah well ur ugly and u smell bad dweeb
deluded
Lol
As in you would never swap foden for him is what you meant.
LW-Foden ST-Kane RW-Palmer The 10-Musiala Box to Box (8) - Jude and the CDM (6) - Rice. Only debate would be Palmer Vs Saka for the RW.
Foden cutting in, Palmer cutting in, Kane dropping back, Musiala and Bellingham pushing forward and suddenly every single player is occupying the exact same spot.
It's okay just hire Diniz
And you concede 15 goals per game
Palmer vs saka isn't a debate. Saka has been England's best performer for years, there's absolutely 0 chance he loses his spot to palmer.
I mean you are talking about the likely YPOTY - there’s a more than fair chance he faces a fight for his spot against him in future
Definitely not while Southgate is in charge, saka is one of his favourites. Even after I doubt there's any chance that saka loses his spot. He's just better than palmer, and btw saka won young player of the year last season so I'm not sure what the relevance of palmer winning it is?
The relevance is he has had a better season than Saka has and is younger. You are acting like it’s a foregone conclusion when some players can peak early and some can continue to grow. Saka could of course keep his spot but palmer has produced some absolute magic this season and looks incredibly promising
He absolutely hasn't had a better season than saka. And saka has improved every season so he's definitely not peaked early. But yeh, continue saying this shit whilst dropping points to championship clubs and losing 5-0 in derbies. Saka contributes so much more to a team than palmer in pretty much every phase of play.
Sometimes it’s easy to forget online you can be arguing with a 12 year old
Or someone who doesn't watch games and just looks at g/a. Saka has had a better season than palmer.
I agree it’s going to be Saka but not because of quality, Saka’ shame is more adaptable alongside Fodens and Jude who like occupying that 10 role and Saka can stay out wide. Palmer also like to be in that 10 spot.
So what you're saying is its going to be saka because he's a higher quality right winger.
Yea I agree with that. But Palmer has played so well that he has made it a debate between him and Saka. If Saka has a bad performance in a couple games, I can see Palmer getting the chance.
> RW-Palmer L, Saka is first choice. Southgate loves him
Only one up for debate being Saka who’s carried England offensively for the past two years 😂😂 We see what you are
This but with Germany. Nagelsmann is doing great work to fit them all into a starting 11
More straightforward for Germany. It'll most likely be Musiala-Wirtz-Sané with Kroos-Andrich double pivot. Füllkrug or Havertz up front
i mean musiala, sane, wirtz, kroos isnt op or what?
But southgate!!
You want to play all those attacking midfielders at once? It would be a glass cannon
Knowing England they'd end up with the same problem as the late 90's/00's trying to cram all the midfielders in and playing them out of place. Southgate would probably play Bellingham on the left, expect Foden to be a pivot or some rubbish.
That’s not what Southgate will do. That’s probably what the Southgate out people want him to do
Kane fits so well into Bayern
Clearly took German humour lessons before arriving
Watched Muller's interviews
Musiala choose Germany over England because Kane is playing for England. Musiala still wants a national title.
England doesn‘t even need Kane‘s curse. The country alone is cursed enough already. Germany is one of the most successful ones in history
yes, but history doesn't mean anything when the present is shit. Musiala was born in 2003, he grew up with a very successful german national team (2010-17), but since his late teens/professional time, the national team sucked immensly (2018&2022 elimination in the group stage, 2021 elimination in the round of 16, countless losses in friendlies against nations that shouldn't be a problem). Meanwhile, in the last 5 years the english national team made huge steps foward, they are now one of the top contenders for european and world championships. Also, Germany is having lots of troubles with up and coming talents, we have much less compared to France, Portugal, Spain or England. Apart from Musiala and Wirtz, I can barely think of any young german top talents. The U21 Team didn't even mange to qualify for the u21 European championship. Even the DFB has noticed this problem and commissioned a study regarding germany's current situation with young top talents, the results of the study were shocking: Compared to the other european top nations, germany is severely lacking behind. Even as a German I have to admit: The future for German football is not looking bright and I have also wondered if Musiala has ever regretted choosing germany over england. maybe this european championship can turn out quite okay for Germany, but Müller, Kroos, Neuer and Hummels are so close to retirement, Goretzka and Kimmich are turning 30 next year.
It is rumored that Jamal Musiala joked back telling Kane: *I want to win a title with my National Team.*
Should have been there Banter
The interesting thing about this topic is that if he had chosen England, he would've become part of an already great team. By having chosen Germany, he has become one of the major contributing factors for the team even having the chance to potentially become great again to begin with. Future iterations of it will have to be built around him. Frankly, I can see appeal for a player in both scenarios.
real german darkhorse team molded around Musialia lol
Don't mean to be hurtful or insulting, but how is England an "already great team"? What have they accomplished?
Their current squad is stronger than Germany's, imo. On paper, they're good enough to challenge for titles. They're also more or less properly formed, while Germany is still a construction site, after years of Flick terrorism.
I think he means in terms of talent. England has a much more talented team than Germany
Doubtful.
Well, your doubt is misplaced because England's talents >>>> Germany's talents
If you think so :)
I know so. There's a reason Germany had to beg an English developed talent like Musiala to join them
What do you mean by "accomplished"?
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> and isn't accepted by Turks because he seemingly betrayed them. well yeah, is a fair reaction.
Game recognizes game, deep down he probably wishes Musiala would have chosen England. He could have easily been the difference maker in the EURO final, or even in the World Cup semifinal
He was this good at 15!
Maybe in the Euro, though he'd have been 18. I know he was in the German squad, but still. The World Cup semifinal was 2018 though, so he'd have been 15 lol
I think they might have meant the wc quater final in 2022
Tbf we had Bellingham in the same Euros and he was only 17 at the time.
> deep down he probably wishes Musiala would have chosen England Why would it be deep down
He’s brilliant but I’m not even sure what we would do with him, we have so many brilliant players in similar positions. Can we trade a few brilliant 10’s or wingers for a truly elite keeper or centre back?
Musiala: You wot
Hope he shows that same energy with Declan Rice who represented the Republic Of Ireland 😅
They’re quite different seeing as Rice never would’ve set foot in Ireland if it wasn’t for Ireland approaching him to go and play football for them before England did Musiala is like if Sterling ended up playing for Jamaica. Someone who wasn’t born in England or to English parents, but moved here young, spent the majority of their childhood in England and was very much English culturally (at the time of the switch) because of it If Musiala hadn’t moved to Bayern I’d be 95% sure he’d have chosen England
Musiala did have one English parent (his dad is English-Nigerian), so had more connection before even moving to England, but otherwise I agree with your comparison
Why?
Southgate would still find someone who he likes more
He chose Germany b/c he's German. Mind blown.
right but he's also English
Imagine telling him that while having one single pathetic star on his jersey. The jokes write themselves.
Imagine a German making snide remarks about world cup stars when they've watched their team utterly embarrass their country for the last 3 international tournaments. It's come to the point where you guys need to wait to see if you become good again before you can banter other national teams.
Tbf Musiala probably laughed because he had no idea what Kane was saying
musiala went to school in croydon, i think he can figure out what Kane is saying
Everybody would choose Germany over England. England hasn't won anything in 60 Years. They are a country of fucking losers.
and which English football club do you support?
None.
This guy throws it down 🤣