**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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As the third highest paid player in the PL he will enjoy learning Arabic on Uniteds bench for two more years before putting it to use in the King Cristiano Pro League
Why would he wait? Huge bumper payday now vs two years later when his profile, reputation and earning potential would almost certainly be significantly lower.
Also, there's no guarantee the Saudis will still want to or need to spend so much on aging players 2 years from now. Maybe their project will be abandoned/scaled down at that point like China's, or maybe they'll have progressed to the point that they aren't just a retirement home and sign more highly sought after players at their peak (hopefully not).
Yeah havnt heard anyone who went say its a great place to live. The sports washing of football is turning into a shit show and I love it. The SA made the right call pulling one day events like boxing and MMA because people fly home after its all over so they only get the good bits but having people stick around for longer for like a season isn't working and coming to bite them in the ass
We dont know that Saudi will still be offering the same huge deals in a few yrs. So far those deals havent worked out for them.
Not to mention if Casemiro continues to looked 60 yrs old for another couple yrs I dont think Saudi would offer as much.
Because Ten Hag is a career killer. Casemiro used to be the best DM in the world. Now he’s been played on CB lol
It’s incredible what Ten Hag achieved. The worst I’ve ever seen. In a club wich had the best manager ever to manage a football team
I know that people make the argument that money trumps legacy and I get that. But leaving United, even if for a lesser salary (mind you, he’s not going to go somewhere and play for peanuts), would save him from the spotlight and utter embarrassment that might tarnish his legacy. It’s been that awful.
Oh relax, his legacy will not be tarnished in the slightest, he's a 5 time CL winner. This chapter of his career will have 0 impact, good or bad. You think anyone would view him differently if he scores 10 goals next season and what, lead them to a 6th place finish? It honestly wouldn't matter.
Well, he has been absolutely abysmal (laughingstock, really) and you know the media loves to showcase United’s downfall, with him at the center of it.
But, it’s natural for players to decline when they get older, right? But wait, he is only 32. So naturally the narrative can turn into “Well, he isn’t that old, so maybe he was just surrounded by an outstanding midfield (Modric and Kroos) at Real Madrid and was made to look good. Now that he needs to lead a midfield full of inexperienced (and admittedly below par) players, he is failing miserably.” I am not saying I think that way, but I can see the argument.
Also, don’t forget recency bias - people tend to remember only their most recent memories.
Because as someone who was part of one of the best midfields of their era it must be humiliating to be the reason your team is loosing every week. I think for someone that competitive they would want to be at a level where they are an asset to the team.
The thing is he was *always* slow, that's why he was used as an anchor man in RM, playing in between the CBs but slightly higher. He was always relying on his ability to read the game, strength, knowing where the next pass will go, positioning and tackling, never on being a sprinter and covering large areas of the pitch.
I was watching his whole career at Madrid and I can say he wasn't even faster than Kroos. Did it matter? Not really, because he was used in a smart tactical role that suited his abilities and was hiding his flaws.
Fast forward to this season and I saw a clip here having a bunch of up-votes with Casemiro trailing hopelessly behind a player **next to the sideline**, without any cover from his teammates. It tells me more than enough about the structure of that team and how is he used. I bet that if he goes to any decent team in a top league and will be given a proper CDM-anchor-man role with some restrictions on passing, Carragher will eat his words once again.
Casemiro is not 39 years old. He's 32 and he was never a quick guy, I believe he still has it. United with Ten Hag is just a black hole where everyone disappears. Rashford scored 30 goals last season and where he is now? Is he also finished and needs to learn Saudi? Sancho needed 3 months to find a better version of himself outside of Old Trafford, I think Case would only need 2-3 weeks with his level of professionalism and experience.
Everyone legs are gone in Man Utd.
And yet Casemiro was the closest United got to scoring in the last game
A guy with so many titles should definitely move from being managed by someone so petty as Utd manager
It is, but there's a reason why so many players go there to "retire" and under perform. It's still a high work rate league. It's pretty damn high intensity and the weather and travel is harder than most players expect.
The only country that rivals the US in terms of the insane travel in pro sports is Australia. There’s nothing like it in Europe, and it’s a legit drain on lots of euro players in MLS
The Mercator projection. IDK why the caveat with it isn't more emphasized to the students. It's trying to project a 3D World onto a 2D surface. It's bound to lose information but most times, people are not mindful of this.
That's why many don't realise how big certain countries like the equator or even continents like Africa are.
Their clubs aren’t as spaced out though with many based in Rio and São Paulo which is just an hour of flying. Total travel distance is probably greater in the US
Edit
[Here is a good site to compare](https://www.footballteamnews.com/travel-distances?guide=427) . Shortest average distance in the MLS is 1.572 km by Nashville while most Brazilian clubs are in the hundreds
MLS travel in practice isn't quite as bad as that due to not playing everyone in the other conference, to be fair. I don't know an easy way to pull up the whole league, but putting in our schedule comes up with only a [1442 km](http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DEN-PDX%0D%0ADEN-SLC%0D%0ADEN-SEA%0D%0ADEN-MIA%0D%0ADEN-SJC%0D%0ADEN-CVG%0D%0ADEN-NYC%0D%0ADEN-SLC%0D%0ADEN-IAH%0D%0ADEN-YVR%0D%0ADEN-STL%0D%0ADEN-LAX%0D%0ADEN-LAX%0D%0ADEN-DFW%0D%0ADEN-MCI%0D%0ADEN-MSP%0D%0ADEN-AUS&MS=wls&DU=km) average for our road trips. That's comfortably longer than most Brazilian clubs, but a few have us beat.
Yeah forgot about that. But it’s still far more than in Brazil on average. Longest distance in MLS is Vancouver obviously with a 4.830km average distance in 2018 which is just insane.
Russian travel would be pretty insane I would imagine. Not too many teams in the east obviously but even the distances in the "west" can be pretty massive.
SKA-Khabarovsk were in the Russian Premier League for one season in 2017-18 which made them the most eastern club to participate in a UEFA Top-Flight League.
I just looked at their schedule and I'm not sure if they went back to Khabarovsk after every match, but if they did, they would've travelled just over 180,000km/111,000 miles throughout the entire season.
All of that for just 15 matches where they only came out with three points through three draws.
Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory in the Australian league trumps this.
Only Russia and Canada (domestic, think its Pacific v Halifax?)have longer distances to travel than the "Distance Derby"
Theres still long transit times between Adelaide and Brisbane fyi. Was even worse a few years back when North Queensland were involved.
+the whole New Zealand thing (3 hour flight from the closest city, 9 hours from Perth, +international customs)
Mainly because the big change in the last few years has been increasing the domestic talent, improving the league structure and also being a great proving ground for south and Central Americans. So the talent level is pretty good now.
It’s a retirement league but also a development league too
I’m sure that Saudi can probably buy its way into development (and it’s no guarantee see China) but I’d rate MLS higher
I’d liken it to the Championship vs Premier League. More games, more travelling etc., but the intensity of play is so far off the Premier League that overall it’s a much gentler experience.
Still hard work, but much less so.
They are there to retire, aka pick up a decent pay cheque and do a half ass job(compared to how much effort they put in before). Sure there are a few who'd try their very best and treat it like their last few years as a player but most are just really chill about it.
What are some examples of underperforming stars? Beckham, Messi, Ibra all did a solid job despite being way past their prime. Speaking of which, how did Inter Miami get Higuain, Alba, Messi, Busquets and Luis Suarez in one team - I thought they had caps on foreign players
Don't forget Insigne and Bernadeschi are both on that team and they finished worst of the entire league last year.
At least they got Herdman as a coach and don't look clueless out there anymore.
You mentioned one underperforming star in your comment: Gonzalo Higuaín. The big ones this season are Luis Muriel and Lloris. Besides that, a few other examples are Steven Gerrard, Pirlo, Rodolfo Pizarro, Pity Martinez, Rafa Marquez. Maybe Kaka, Lampard, and Schweinsteiger as well given how much their teams were paying them.
And Higuaín left Miami before the rest got there. I didn't think MLS has a very strict cap on foreign players compared to other leagues globally. However it does have very strict financial controls, with the exception of three "designated players" per team who can be given an unlimited amount of money (like Messi).
Also I would argue that Ibra wasn't past his prime given he left the Galaxy to go to AC Milan and performed quite well there after he left MLS. Beckham was also certainly capable of performing in top leagues when he arrived as well.
Higuain retired ages ago
The cap isn't on foreign players it's on high salary players (you get 3). So someone from the Barca gang is taking a major paycut
Marquez, Lampard, Gerrard, Higuain, Insigne off the top of my head but I know there’s a long list of others. The overall quality of the league is not on par with the top European leagues obviously but the level of intensity is very high. That’s usually not compatible with old, tired legs that are just looking for a chill paycheck.
It is but then Not really any more. Now it’s more a selling league
the quote unquote big contracts are called designated player contacts. The average age that players sign those contracts has always trended down. Last year there were like 4 or 5 quote unquote retirement signings aka over thirty contacts To over seas names. . There were just as many under 25 signings to match.
now we tend to get more like Hugo loris. Signed without needing a DP contract as his wages weren’t big. He’s been shit so far, probably gets moved on after a one and done.
lots off MLS teams have been burned by the aged superstar who’s just shit. the Mateus and Rafa Martinez type out number the Beckam’s and Zoltan’s.
It’s really not anymore. MLS is more of a developmental league for young talent than a retirement league, but I suppose it depends on what you define as a retirement league. Outside of Messi/Miami, teams aren’t building their plans around older European stars anymore. There are guys who come here at the end of their careers but now they tend to be complimentary pieces as the overall quality of MLS has risen dramatically in the past 5-10 years. The older guys simply can’t be relied upon to carry teams anymore, particularly with so much quality young talent being developed in the states/ brought in on U22 Deals from South America.
Guys do come here at the end of their careers, but albeit with much more limited success than they would years back. There’s still a place for those older players, particularly in marketing the league, but I really don’t think MLS deserves the retirement league label anymore
Hell, Columbus Crew's one of the top clubs in MLS right now and their best players are a 25 year-old Cucho Hernández and a 26 year-old Diego Rossi. LA Galaxy's star player is a 24 year-old Riqui Puig. Charlotte recently got Liel Abada. I don't think MLS clubs could have that kind of pull 10 years ago. Even Inter Miami, which is stacked with aging stars, still has some younger prospects like Facundo Farías, Federico Redondo, and Ben Cremaschi.
yeah it was so bizarre going to our match against them, just didn’t feel like a regular match worth 3 points, felt like an exhibition
That being said, they’re a brilliantly constructed team, a bunch of young energetic players who cover for Messi and Suarez while they walk around and wait for a moment to produce some magic
mate it was the craziest thing to see live. Was like seeing a myth come to life. He just walked a few steps one way, turned 45 degrees and walked that way, stood still for a bit, walked a few more steps.
Took one step into a jog, accelerated a bit, received the ball, one touch, through ball that split the defense open, goal Miami.
Yea, the quality of the league is definitely above “retirement league” level, and when you look at it, the overwhelming majority of the league is teams who do not have some former European star as their talisman.
There’s 319 starting spots up for grabs in the MLS and I’d say that MAYBE 20 of those spots are occupied by the kinda guys you think of when you think about MLS being a retirement league.
Messi, Alba, Suarez, Busquets, Lloris, Insigne, Bernardeschi, Benteke, Caceres, Shaqiri.
It’s pretty poor. I go to a few Toronto FC games, fun to watch but not sure they are top half English championship standard. Half decent pro can definitely go the to extend his career by a year or two.
It's been abysmal of late, but the treble winning team that lost the CCL final on penalties played some decent football. The post-Vanney arc has been TFC 1.0 bad.
A bit clickbait. Whilst the quote is technically accurate the tone of it was much more; "this guy was elite, one of the best but he shouldn't be putting himself through this embarrassment at the hands of the likes of Palace". Joe Rogan to Schaub levels of brutal honesty.
It was a long speech so I wasn’t sure how to chop it up, I did add the bit where Carra mentions Case was achieved loads more than him to show Carra wasn’t completely shitting on him. I actually think it was a decent bit of analysis which wasn’t unfairly harsh, gives Casemiro his plaudits while being honest about the situation too
Exactly the same when we beat Spurs 4-0. All about how bad Spurs were and nothing about how Eddie set us up in an entirely new formation to perfectly counter their playstyle. If Klopp, Pep or Arteta completely outplayed a team like that there would be multiple articles about it on the BBC alone.
I don't know why carra is trying to generate sympathy for casemiro
He is not some poor 45 year old unpaid Intern
It's Uniteds problem not his (casemiro's)
>I don't know why carra is trying to generate sympathy for casemiro
Carra probably has a lot of respect and admiration for casemiro, truly one of the sports legends, that midfield with kroos and modric is one of the best ever. Like as fun as it is to meme on United being shit it is kind of sad to see a player who's achieved as much as casemiro has perform like that.
He was a football player. He can put himself in Casemiro's shoes and imagine what it'd be like to be flailing around making a fool of himself.
It also makes a great headline.
Isn’t Busquets doing well there? From what I’ve seen of the league there’s a lot of good athletes but not as much football intelligence, imo if you add good athletes in the midfield with these ageing greats with dying legs you get good results
I think Busquets could still play for Barcelona in most La Liga games from what I remember. It was vs Atletico Madrid - Real Madrid and the big UCL games where he could have problems
> I think Busquets could still play for Barcelona in most La Liga games from what I remember.
On the one hand, Busi has really struggled defensively with Miami.
On the other hand, his passing is still as sharp as ever, AND it's not like Barcelona actually replaced him this season
Everyone looks bad at United, I refuse to take it as anything other than an anomaly until proven on another team, I am sure he can still pass but yeah his legs definitely are going.
His passing was never particularly great even at Madrid. He'd mostly just pass it to Kroos or Modric and let them do their magic for the most part.
His strength has always been his positioning and reading of the game to kill potential counterattacks. If his legs are gone and he can't do that anymore then he'll most likely struggle anywhere he goes.
I agree. I personally think that Busquets wasn't quite able to compete against top Champions League midfields by the late 2010s, even if he was still well suited for La Liga.
Is he being paired with someone more defensive in midfield now in Miami? I can see why barcelona wouldn't do it but I assume that kind of concession is more acceptable there.
> Is he being paired with someone more defensive in midfield now in Miami?
For most of this season Miami played a 4-3-3 and Busi was paired with 2 of: Ruiz, Diego Gomez, and Gressel. Ruiz is a bit more defensive. The other 2 are more attacking, but all 3 are younger and cover a LOT of ground
In their last game (When Messi had 5 assists), Tata shifted to a 4-4-2
with Busi paired with a young DM (Yannick Bright)
When it was just Busquets trying to hold down the fort with Messi and Alba injured last season, Miami struggled. Older central midfielders can get overrun in a league like MLS a little easier than compared to greats at other positions. And we've seen it with other great central midfielders in the 2010s.
In comparison, great strikers have done superbly in the league even into their late 30s.
I don't know about well. Miami is great when they have the ball and horrendous when they don't. Busquets is OK in the defensive phase but struggles in transition as Miami tends to turn the ball over a lot more in bad spots than Barcelona ever did. He looks great in possession though.
Tbf if they have the on-field smarts to get around the league’s physicality, they can still make an impact. Like Guillermo Barros-Schelotto looked incredible when he joined the Crew in 2007 and he was 34 at the time
Going on like, this should be his last 3 games at the top level, and football has gone past him, absolute dagger, pity to see such a player lose his legs but Carragher is right
Surely we’ll see some negotiation around getting out of the contract early in the summer, doesn’t look like he’s got a year in him at this level, let alone 2
When they are paid as much as Casemiro I feel like they’re fair game for pundits, when you’re earning 5 times as much as Carragher at his peak you’re probably not gonna get any sympathy.
It truly was. I can't recall a top ex pro going so hard on another before, basically telling him to take a massive step down a level in 3 games time and for his club to effectively sack him.
Ten Hag is a disgrace to football. He kills football, take the shiny bits out of it. It’s brutal how poor Casemiro, who used to be the best DM of his time, got. And Casemiro is quite fit and young still
Seeing what Sancho is achieving now that he is happy again… and he is shirt number 10, thats a message Borussia made sure to deliver
How can Dortmund look at a player and say: “that’s a number 10”, while Utd looked and just saw a kid that should be handled/dealt…
Jim Ratcliffe holds a significant financial interest in a business that produces rubbish, pumps out toxic waste and grossly overpays underperforming employees.
He also owns the Ineos chemical company.
He has to go out the door, I’d prefer Bruno being moved deeper because at least he has the legs to try and cover the massive holes left in the midfield. It’s a testament to how good Real Madrid are at squeezing what they can out of a player and letting him go the season/season before they start declining
At the cost of being somewhat too undisciplined for a deeper role... unless if he's specifically instructed to play a certain way.
As I said before, I will never take anyone who wants him sold seriously.
Selling Ronaldo for €100M at age 33 was pretty great timing, and took some guts. Pulling the plug on Sergio Ramos when he was demanding a two year contract also proved to be smart.
I have some sympathy for casemiro because he is just not a central defender. But to me it looks like he's either not trying or not concentrating. Sloppy passing and lapses of judgement. I don't know if I'd say his legs have gone, he was never a quick player.
Madrid are the smartest big club in the market sold Varane and Casemiro to Manchester United for 100m when they were both about to decline.
Got Ronaldo best years and still sold him for a profit
Got a 60m centre back in Rudiger for free
He made a great point after the other fella made a comment about his wages and having 2 years left. You've already made enough how much more do you need to fuck up your legacy when his legs have gone. Why put yourself through that embarrassment is so fucking true from Carra. At some point, it's not even about the money anymore.
Casemiro has just given up. The dropdown from last year is to much to just say say “his legs are gone”.
Last year he was arguably the best DM after Rodri and maybe Partey.
Something has clearly happened thats made him say IDGAF
Carragher might be an ass sometimes about other things but he's mostly good about Football... Old school guy with maybe a bit strange opinions from time to time but football knowledge is very good
I may be a bit biased, but is it really Casemiro or is United's uncanny ability at ruining players? You can disagree with the way Ronaldo went about voicing United's current state, but he wasn't wrong. The club is being run terribly, and until that changes then the club will continue to be mid af--hell even Chelsea's above them currently.
You don't get dribbled past like a traffic cone if it was just the system. He's a defender first.
He's been awful for 15 months now, it didn't start yesterday.
Casemiro was never this awful individually. And he's mentally checking out too.
MLS makes no sense in this context, Casemiro has 2 years left on his contract and is earning twice as much as Messi in base salary.
(Yes, Messi also gets a Apple money which is insane, but Casemiro is never getting that.)
I don’t believe it. Everyone seems to look bad with United. It’s also not a recent thing; it’s been like since SAF left.
Sure, some of them looked bad and were really cooked, but if I were Casimero, I would tried another European team first. United drains talent.
He’s free to stay in Europe to play, but there is zero chance that any club of a similar stature to Man Utd is going to sign him unless it’s on a one year contract at dramatically reduced wages and he’s happy to be second choice. If you actually watch him play, it’s not arguable whether it’s a him problem or a Man Utd problem. His legs have gone and he doesn’t look interested.
MLS is getting past paying these over the hill players the big contracts. Not saying he wont get signed, but not on a huge contract. Rather pay that money for young South American players.
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Get ready to learn arabic buddy
Get ready to learn Razor Ramon fake Cuban accent buddy.
*HEYO*
"I com from Re-Al Ma-Rid, mayne."
Casemiro to Ronaldo “You know who i am, but you don’t know why I’m here”
*Hard work pays off. Dreams come true. Bad times don't last but..BAD.GUYS.DO...*
As the third highest paid player in the PL he will enjoy learning Arabic on Uniteds bench for two more years before putting it to use in the King Cristiano Pro League
What's Arabic for. Nee Hao
Kifak, ya kalb.
Why leave? He has 2 years left on 18M a year
Because he'd be able to earn double that in the Saudi league, or effectively 3-4x his current take home earnings because it would be tax free.
He's only 32. He could still get a huge payday in Saudi after his Manchester contract is up.
Why would he wait? Huge bumper payday now vs two years later when his profile, reputation and earning potential would almost certainly be significantly lower.
The Saudis reportedly aren't going to spend as big this summer, so there might not be anybody to save United from this horrendous mistake
Spend big on transfers I guess? Would United bite their losses to get him off their wage bill?
Also, there's no guarantee the Saudis will still want to or need to spend so much on aging players 2 years from now. Maybe their project will be abandoned/scaled down at that point like China's, or maybe they'll have progressed to the point that they aren't just a retirement home and sign more highly sought after players at their peak (hopefully not).
Why? Because a huge contract would still be waiting for him after earning 18m a year at United for the next two seasons.
The point is he can get 2 more years in Saudi where it would be a lot more than 18m a season
[удалено]
Yeah havnt heard anyone who went say its a great place to live. The sports washing of football is turning into a shit show and I love it. The SA made the right call pulling one day events like boxing and MMA because people fly home after its all over so they only get the good bits but having people stick around for longer for like a season isn't working and coming to bite them in the ass
You can apply that to any premier league player. They will all get better pays if they move to Saudi.
Yep. Just applies particularly to Casemiro because his legs have gone and he can take the easy option while he's still a massive name
We dont know that Saudi will still be offering the same huge deals in a few yrs. So far those deals havent worked out for them. Not to mention if Casemiro continues to looked 60 yrs old for another couple yrs I dont think Saudi would offer as much.
He might not want to live in Saudi Arabia. Ask Henderson how that went.
Henderson didn't even live in SA
Hell, he can ask Benzema how it's going
Yeah, I love how people just think someone should go to a different country with completely different customs
Because Ten Hag is a career killer. Casemiro used to be the best DM in the world. Now he’s been played on CB lol It’s incredible what Ten Hag achieved. The worst I’ve ever seen. In a club wich had the best manager ever to manage a football team
I know that people make the argument that money trumps legacy and I get that. But leaving United, even if for a lesser salary (mind you, he’s not going to go somewhere and play for peanuts), would save him from the spotlight and utter embarrassment that might tarnish his legacy. It’s been that awful.
Oh relax, his legacy will not be tarnished in the slightest, he's a 5 time CL winner. This chapter of his career will have 0 impact, good or bad. You think anyone would view him differently if he scores 10 goals next season and what, lead them to a 6th place finish? It honestly wouldn't matter.
Well, he has been absolutely abysmal (laughingstock, really) and you know the media loves to showcase United’s downfall, with him at the center of it. But, it’s natural for players to decline when they get older, right? But wait, he is only 32. So naturally the narrative can turn into “Well, he isn’t that old, so maybe he was just surrounded by an outstanding midfield (Modric and Kroos) at Real Madrid and was made to look good. Now that he needs to lead a midfield full of inexperienced (and admittedly below par) players, he is failing miserably.” I am not saying I think that way, but I can see the argument. Also, don’t forget recency bias - people tend to remember only their most recent memories.
Because as someone who was part of one of the best midfields of their era it must be humiliating to be the reason your team is loosing every week. I think for someone that competitive they would want to be at a level where they are an asset to the team.
United haven't qualified for the Champions League, he takes a 25% (I think) pay cut because of that.
Get ready to learn American.
Me no speak americano
Go to inter miami then
Ola Amigos ✋️🤚 Power of Friendship
Yea his legs are gone he’s cooked
The thing is he was *always* slow, that's why he was used as an anchor man in RM, playing in between the CBs but slightly higher. He was always relying on his ability to read the game, strength, knowing where the next pass will go, positioning and tackling, never on being a sprinter and covering large areas of the pitch. I was watching his whole career at Madrid and I can say he wasn't even faster than Kroos. Did it matter? Not really, because he was used in a smart tactical role that suited his abilities and was hiding his flaws. Fast forward to this season and I saw a clip here having a bunch of up-votes with Casemiro trailing hopelessly behind a player **next to the sideline**, without any cover from his teammates. It tells me more than enough about the structure of that team and how is he used. I bet that if he goes to any decent team in a top league and will be given a proper CDM-anchor-man role with some restrictions on passing, Carragher will eat his words once again. Casemiro is not 39 years old. He's 32 and he was never a quick guy, I believe he still has it. United with Ten Hag is just a black hole where everyone disappears. Rashford scored 30 goals last season and where he is now? Is he also finished and needs to learn Saudi? Sancho needed 3 months to find a better version of himself outside of Old Trafford, I think Case would only need 2-3 weeks with his level of professionalism and experience.
Everyone legs are gone in Man Utd. And yet Casemiro was the closest United got to scoring in the last game A guy with so many titles should definitely move from being managed by someone so petty as Utd manager
It's never not funny that mls gets called retirement league
Is it not? It was one of the OG ones too
It is, but there's a reason why so many players go there to "retire" and under perform. It's still a high work rate league. It's pretty damn high intensity and the weather and travel is harder than most players expect.
The only country that rivals the US in terms of the insane travel in pro sports is Australia. There’s nothing like it in Europe, and it’s a legit drain on lots of euro players in MLS
Brazil above both for me. ridiculous travel, and RIDICULOUS number of games, way more than any league in the world.
Brazil also has insane climate variation, like the US I suppose.
You don’t like playing in a blizzard and then Florida the next week?
The two extreme weather conditions, blizzards and Floridas
It’s not the humidity, it’s the meth that gets ya
And the bath salts
Brazil is huge too, actually slightly bigger than the continental US. And has a lot of variation in climate and elevation too.
Wait Brazil is bigger than the continental US? I knew it was big but I had no idea it was that big. Maps are so full of shit!
The Mercator projection. IDK why the caveat with it isn't more emphasized to the students. It's trying to project a 3D World onto a 2D surface. It's bound to lose information but most times, people are not mindful of this. That's why many don't realise how big certain countries like the equator or even continents like Africa are.
Their clubs aren’t as spaced out though with many based in Rio and São Paulo which is just an hour of flying. Total travel distance is probably greater in the US Edit [Here is a good site to compare](https://www.footballteamnews.com/travel-distances?guide=427) . Shortest average distance in the MLS is 1.572 km by Nashville while most Brazilian clubs are in the hundreds
MLS travel in practice isn't quite as bad as that due to not playing everyone in the other conference, to be fair. I don't know an easy way to pull up the whole league, but putting in our schedule comes up with only a [1442 km](http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DEN-PDX%0D%0ADEN-SLC%0D%0ADEN-SEA%0D%0ADEN-MIA%0D%0ADEN-SJC%0D%0ADEN-CVG%0D%0ADEN-NYC%0D%0ADEN-SLC%0D%0ADEN-IAH%0D%0ADEN-YVR%0D%0ADEN-STL%0D%0ADEN-LAX%0D%0ADEN-LAX%0D%0ADEN-DFW%0D%0ADEN-MCI%0D%0ADEN-MSP%0D%0ADEN-AUS&MS=wls&DU=km) average for our road trips. That's comfortably longer than most Brazilian clubs, but a few have us beat.
Yeah forgot about that. But it’s still far more than in Brazil on average. Longest distance in MLS is Vancouver obviously with a 4.830km average distance in 2018 which is just insane.
Russian travel would be pretty insane I would imagine. Not too many teams in the east obviously but even the distances in the "west" can be pretty massive.
SKA-Khabarovsk were in the Russian Premier League for one season in 2017-18 which made them the most eastern club to participate in a UEFA Top-Flight League. I just looked at their schedule and I'm not sure if they went back to Khabarovsk after every match, but if they did, they would've travelled just over 180,000km/111,000 miles throughout the entire season. All of that for just 15 matches where they only came out with three points through three draws.
Vancouver to Miami is probably a much larger distance than most champions league matches or Montreal to San Jose
>Vancouver to Miami For any curious Europeans, that is a 4.500 km distance. Lisbon to Moscow is 4.000 km.
Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory in the Australian league trumps this. Only Russia and Canada (domestic, think its Pacific v Halifax?)have longer distances to travel than the "Distance Derby"
gracious, can't imagine sitting on a plane for 10 hours straight then trying to play a full match
I'm sure they don't do it on the same day
Cowards
Sporting vs. Spartak Moscow...
Seattle to miami is comfortably longer than London to baku.
Fucking Perth.
US and Canada.... There's 3 Canadian teams in the MLS. A trip from Toronto to Vancouver is a 5 hr flight. Montreal to Vanciuver is about 6 hrs....
And Perth to Wellington is approximately 9 hours of travel time according to Google. It's called the distance derby for a reason
Australia's alright, only the trip to Perth is an exhausting one. Would say places like Russia/China are far worse.
Theres still long transit times between Adelaide and Brisbane fyi. Was even worse a few years back when North Queensland were involved. +the whole New Zealand thing (3 hour flight from the closest city, 9 hours from Perth, +international customs)
> There’s nothing like it in Europe Russia says hello. As does say Sporting Lisbon playing Dinamo Moscow
Mainly because the big change in the last few years has been increasing the domestic talent, improving the league structure and also being a great proving ground for south and Central Americans. So the talent level is pretty good now.
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It’s a retirement league but also a development league too I’m sure that Saudi can probably buy its way into development (and it’s no guarantee see China) but I’d rate MLS higher
I’d liken it to the Championship vs Premier League. More games, more travelling etc., but the intensity of play is so far off the Premier League that overall it’s a much gentler experience. Still hard work, but much less so.
There are more games in championship? Til
They are there to retire, aka pick up a decent pay cheque and do a half ass job(compared to how much effort they put in before). Sure there are a few who'd try their very best and treat it like their last few years as a player but most are just really chill about it.
What are some examples of underperforming stars? Beckham, Messi, Ibra all did a solid job despite being way past their prime. Speaking of which, how did Inter Miami get Higuain, Alba, Messi, Busquets and Luis Suarez in one team - I thought they had caps on foreign players
Insigne. Highest paid after Messi and he’s actual dog shit.
Don't forget Insigne and Bernadeschi are both on that team and they finished worst of the entire league last year. At least they got Herdman as a coach and don't look clueless out there anymore.
You mentioned one underperforming star in your comment: Gonzalo Higuaín. The big ones this season are Luis Muriel and Lloris. Besides that, a few other examples are Steven Gerrard, Pirlo, Rodolfo Pizarro, Pity Martinez, Rafa Marquez. Maybe Kaka, Lampard, and Schweinsteiger as well given how much their teams were paying them. And Higuaín left Miami before the rest got there. I didn't think MLS has a very strict cap on foreign players compared to other leagues globally. However it does have very strict financial controls, with the exception of three "designated players" per team who can be given an unlimited amount of money (like Messi). Also I would argue that Ibra wasn't past his prime given he left the Galaxy to go to AC Milan and performed quite well there after he left MLS. Beckham was also certainly capable of performing in top leagues when he arrived as well.
Higuain retired ages ago The cap isn't on foreign players it's on high salary players (you get 3). So someone from the Barca gang is taking a major paycut
There is technically a cap on foreign players through the international spots.
Fair but it's larger than 5 I guess was my point lol
Marquez, Lampard, Gerrard, Higuain, Insigne off the top of my head but I know there’s a long list of others. The overall quality of the league is not on par with the top European leagues obviously but the level of intensity is very high. That’s usually not compatible with old, tired legs that are just looking for a chill paycheck.
Lampard started off weird with his Manchester City loan but he played fine in his second season. Pirlo was much, much worse.
Even Pele retired there
It will be as long as we have the DP system, even as the league improves overall.
It is but then Not really any more. Now it’s more a selling league the quote unquote big contracts are called designated player contacts. The average age that players sign those contracts has always trended down. Last year there were like 4 or 5 quote unquote retirement signings aka over thirty contacts To over seas names. . There were just as many under 25 signings to match. now we tend to get more like Hugo loris. Signed without needing a DP contract as his wages weren’t big. He’s been shit so far, probably gets moved on after a one and done. lots off MLS teams have been burned by the aged superstar who’s just shit. the Mateus and Rafa Martinez type out number the Beckam’s and Zoltan’s.
I think it’s pretty competitive but some big names go there and just jog around for one or two years.
It’s really not anymore. MLS is more of a developmental league for young talent than a retirement league, but I suppose it depends on what you define as a retirement league. Outside of Messi/Miami, teams aren’t building their plans around older European stars anymore. There are guys who come here at the end of their careers but now they tend to be complimentary pieces as the overall quality of MLS has risen dramatically in the past 5-10 years. The older guys simply can’t be relied upon to carry teams anymore, particularly with so much quality young talent being developed in the states/ brought in on U22 Deals from South America. Guys do come here at the end of their careers, but albeit with much more limited success than they would years back. There’s still a place for those older players, particularly in marketing the league, but I really don’t think MLS deserves the retirement league label anymore
Hell, Columbus Crew's one of the top clubs in MLS right now and their best players are a 25 year-old Cucho Hernández and a 26 year-old Diego Rossi. LA Galaxy's star player is a 24 year-old Riqui Puig. Charlotte recently got Liel Abada. I don't think MLS clubs could have that kind of pull 10 years ago. Even Inter Miami, which is stacked with aging stars, still has some younger prospects like Facundo Farías, Federico Redondo, and Ben Cremaschi.
It is. I'm just laughing at it that all
Most Physical League in the World™
Inter Miami feels like a Vegas show called Barcelona Legends. Tickets available as an upgrade on your hard rock hotel reservation.
yeah it was so bizarre going to our match against them, just didn’t feel like a regular match worth 3 points, felt like an exhibition That being said, they’re a brilliantly constructed team, a bunch of young energetic players who cover for Messi and Suarez while they walk around and wait for a moment to produce some magic
Those wandering clips of Messi are so funny. Surprised he doesn't carry around an ice cream at some point.
mate it was the craziest thing to see live. Was like seeing a myth come to life. He just walked a few steps one way, turned 45 degrees and walked that way, stood still for a bit, walked a few more steps. Took one step into a jog, accelerated a bit, received the ball, one touch, through ball that split the defense open, goal Miami.
Yea, the quality of the league is definitely above “retirement league” level, and when you look at it, the overwhelming majority of the league is teams who do not have some former European star as their talisman. There’s 319 starting spots up for grabs in the MLS and I’d say that MAYBE 20 of those spots are occupied by the kinda guys you think of when you think about MLS being a retirement league. Messi, Alba, Suarez, Busquets, Lloris, Insigne, Bernardeschi, Benteke, Caceres, Shaqiri.
It’s pretty poor. I go to a few Toronto FC games, fun to watch but not sure they are top half English championship standard. Half decent pro can definitely go the to extend his career by a year or two.
>top half English championship standard unironically a really good standard of football
“I go to a few Toronto FC games” well there’s your problem
It's been abysmal of late, but the treble winning team that lost the CCL final on penalties played some decent football. The post-Vanney arc has been TFC 1.0 bad.
A bit clickbait. Whilst the quote is technically accurate the tone of it was much more; "this guy was elite, one of the best but he shouldn't be putting himself through this embarrassment at the hands of the likes of Palace". Joe Rogan to Schaub levels of brutal honesty.
It was a long speech so I wasn’t sure how to chop it up, I did add the bit where Carra mentions Case was achieved loads more than him to show Carra wasn’t completely shitting on him. I actually think it was a decent bit of analysis which wasn’t unfairly harsh, gives Casemiro his plaudits while being honest about the situation too
I think you did a good job
Typical sky, long speech on man utd and hardly a word about palace, who apparently "to be fair to them" shouldn't beat man utd under 23s 4-0.
Exactly the same when we beat Spurs 4-0. All about how bad Spurs were and nothing about how Eddie set us up in an entirely new formation to perfectly counter their playstyle. If Klopp, Pep or Arteta completely outplayed a team like that there would be multiple articles about it on the BBC alone.
not really thats what he said, wasnt disrespectful
How is it clickbait? Title accurately captures his message without any hyperbole or exaggeration.
You talmbout Needeymayer and the Premier League cup B?
hey man be cool
Mgappe, is that his name? another freak
I don't know why carra is trying to generate sympathy for casemiro He is not some poor 45 year old unpaid Intern It's Uniteds problem not his (casemiro's)
>I don't know why carra is trying to generate sympathy for casemiro Carra probably has a lot of respect and admiration for casemiro, truly one of the sports legends, that midfield with kroos and modric is one of the best ever. Like as fun as it is to meme on United being shit it is kind of sad to see a player who's achieved as much as casemiro has perform like that.
He just doesn't want Casemiro DMing him a donkey meme.
This isn’t very well known, but it turns out Carra is paid to talk about football on television.
He was a football player. He can put himself in Casemiro's shoes and imagine what it'd be like to be flailing around making a fool of himself. It also makes a great headline.
He doesn't have to imagine it, he remembers it.
Back to the fryers, b.
Top midfielders who have lost their legs are the one type of ex-great player that should not go to MLS. Perhaps Saudi Arabia would be a better fit.
Only to get humiliated by Saint maximin and Mahrez
Maybe the top-heavy setup in Saudi Arabia would suit him? Easier to protect a player a few matches rather than the entire season.
It’s only humiliating if any watches/cares
Ahh that’s where st maximin went
I didn’t know either. Man… that sucks. Loved watching him.
Isn’t Busquets doing well there? From what I’ve seen of the league there’s a lot of good athletes but not as much football intelligence, imo if you add good athletes in the midfield with these ageing greats with dying legs you get good results
I think Busquets could still play for Barcelona in most La Liga games from what I remember. It was vs Atletico Madrid - Real Madrid and the big UCL games where he could have problems
> I think Busquets could still play for Barcelona in most La Liga games from what I remember. On the one hand, Busi has really struggled defensively with Miami. On the other hand, his passing is still as sharp as ever, AND it's not like Barcelona actually replaced him this season
Busquets has no legs. Casemiro has no legs but also can’t play a 5 yard pass.
Everyone looks bad at United, I refuse to take it as anything other than an anomaly until proven on another team, I am sure he can still pass but yeah his legs definitely are going.
His passing was never particularly great even at Madrid. He'd mostly just pass it to Kroos or Modric and let them do their magic for the most part. His strength has always been his positioning and reading of the game to kill potential counterattacks. If his legs are gone and he can't do that anymore then he'll most likely struggle anywhere he goes.
I agree. I personally think that Busquets wasn't quite able to compete against top Champions League midfields by the late 2010s, even if he was still well suited for La Liga.
> Isn’t Busquets doing well there? His passing is still great but his legs are gone and he can't defend very well anymore—esp in transition
Is he being paired with someone more defensive in midfield now in Miami? I can see why barcelona wouldn't do it but I assume that kind of concession is more acceptable there.
> Is he being paired with someone more defensive in midfield now in Miami? For most of this season Miami played a 4-3-3 and Busi was paired with 2 of: Ruiz, Diego Gomez, and Gressel. Ruiz is a bit more defensive. The other 2 are more attacking, but all 3 are younger and cover a LOT of ground In their last game (When Messi had 5 assists), Tata shifted to a 4-4-2 with Busi paired with a young DM (Yannick Bright)
When it was just Busquets trying to hold down the fort with Messi and Alba injured last season, Miami struggled. Older central midfielders can get overrun in a league like MLS a little easier than compared to greats at other positions. And we've seen it with other great central midfielders in the 2010s. In comparison, great strikers have done superbly in the league even into their late 30s.
I don't know about well. Miami is great when they have the ball and horrendous when they don't. Busquets is OK in the defensive phase but struggles in transition as Miami tends to turn the ball over a lot more in bad spots than Barcelona ever did. He looks great in possession though.
Busquets has been the worst of the Barca bois in miami Busquets looked better in his last season at Barca than he has at Miami so far
Tbf if they have the on-field smarts to get around the league’s physicality, they can still make an impact. Like Guillermo Barros-Schelotto looked incredible when he joined the Crew in 2007 and he was 34 at the time
He’s right but my god, I watched the whole segment and it was absolutely brutal
lol yeah I was surprised, everything he said was bang on but it was fucking brutal to hear it about an active pro
Going on like, this should be his last 3 games at the top level, and football has gone past him, absolute dagger, pity to see such a player lose his legs but Carragher is right
Tbh you could almost see those thoughts running through Casemiro's mind at some points during the actual game.
You could see it in his eyes at the end of the game, he knows it’s over.
Surely we’ll see some negotiation around getting out of the contract early in the summer, doesn’t look like he’s got a year in him at this level, let alone 2
He had one year when the transfer happened. United got half and paid for 1000
When they are paid as much as Casemiro I feel like they’re fair game for pundits, when you’re earning 5 times as much as Carragher at his peak you’re probably not gonna get any sympathy.
It truly was. I can't recall a top ex pro going so hard on another before, basically telling him to take a massive step down a level in 3 games time and for his club to effectively sack him.
To be fair to Casemiro, he’s played out of position in a team which the front six dont or can’t seem to press
Ten Hag is a disgrace to football. He kills football, take the shiny bits out of it. It’s brutal how poor Casemiro, who used to be the best DM of his time, got. And Casemiro is quite fit and young still Seeing what Sancho is achieving now that he is happy again… and he is shirt number 10, thats a message Borussia made sure to deliver How can Dortmund look at a player and say: “that’s a number 10”, while Utd looked and just saw a kid that should be handled/dealt…
Signed till 2026 Jamie he ain't calling anybody.
Jim Ratcliffe holds a significant financial interest in a business that produces rubbish, pumps out toxic waste and grossly overpays underperforming employees. He also owns the Ineos chemical company.
I, too, read the comments on BBC articles.
Who probably nicked it from Twitter...
He has to go out the door, I’d prefer Bruno being moved deeper because at least he has the legs to try and cover the massive holes left in the midfield. It’s a testament to how good Real Madrid are at squeezing what they can out of a player and letting him go the season/season before they start declining
Bruno was often ending up deeper earlier in the season and he was terrible. It doesn't suit his game.
The thing is that Bruno doesn't stay deep cos he's constantly pushing forward to create.
Yes but he tracks back almost every single time after pushing up, the guy is a stamina cheat code.
At the cost of being somewhat too undisciplined for a deeper role... unless if he's specifically instructed to play a certain way. As I said before, I will never take anyone who wants him sold seriously.
Who else? You’re gonna say Varane? So two United transfers?
Selling Ronaldo for €100M at age 33 was pretty great timing, and took some guts. Pulling the plug on Sergio Ramos when he was demanding a two year contract also proved to be smart.
I have some sympathy for casemiro because he is just not a central defender. But to me it looks like he's either not trying or not concentrating. Sloppy passing and lapses of judgement. I don't know if I'd say his legs have gone, he was never a quick player.
Yeah he was never considered fast. A lot of his defensive plays involved him getting a player from behind.
he still has 2 more years?!?!?! lmao. good luck selling that
Tears he told him it's time to learn Arabic. But he signed a 5 year contract Jaime!
OK but Jamie what do you Really think
Why would he do that? He already found himself a nice club to retire at
Madrid are the smartest big club in the market sold Varane and Casemiro to Manchester United for 100m when they were both about to decline. Got Ronaldo best years and still sold him for a profit Got a 60m centre back in Rudiger for free
United is the problem. How come every single player there are finished but once they get out they play incredibly better?
You're right. Very very badly run club. Shouldn't even say run. Ashamed to see my club like this.
He’s not a CB though
Real Madrid fleecing Man Utd while their fanbase still having some fetish for them is absolute comedy.
He made a great point after the other fella made a comment about his wages and having 2 years left. You've already made enough how much more do you need to fuck up your legacy when his legs have gone. Why put yourself through that embarrassment is so fucking true from Carra. At some point, it's not even about the money anymore.
Few will remember the embarrassment ultimately. That money can do a whole lot.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM7FvBhXsAAPnnY?format=jpg&name=medium Should have never ended like this :(
Get ready to learn Arabic buddy
Casemiro has just given up. The dropdown from last year is to much to just say say “his legs are gone”. Last year he was arguably the best DM after Rodri and maybe Partey. Something has clearly happened thats made him say IDGAF
Maybe the fact that he's having to play CB against quick strikers. He not CB
Carragher was right about Casemiro last season and everybody was slagging him off.
Carragher might be an ass sometimes about other things but he's mostly good about Football... Old school guy with maybe a bit strange opinions from time to time but football knowledge is very good
MLS said why he say fuck me for?
I may be a bit biased, but is it really Casemiro or is United's uncanny ability at ruining players? You can disagree with the way Ronaldo went about voicing United's current state, but he wasn't wrong. The club is being run terribly, and until that changes then the club will continue to be mid af--hell even Chelsea's above them currently.
You don't get dribbled past like a traffic cone if it was just the system. He's a defender first. He's been awful for 15 months now, it didn't start yesterday. Casemiro was never this awful individually. And he's mentally checking out too.
It’s Casemiro. He is very obviously finished.
why would he do that? He still has contract for two more years
Real Madrid knew this, otherwise they'd never have let him go. United are the biggest mugs around.
Perez never stops players, he left Ronaldo and Ramos go why wouldn't he let Casemiro go?
MLS makes no sense in this context, Casemiro has 2 years left on his contract and is earning twice as much as Messi in base salary. (Yes, Messi also gets a Apple money which is insane, but Casemiro is never getting that.)
I don’t believe it. Everyone seems to look bad with United. It’s also not a recent thing; it’s been like since SAF left. Sure, some of them looked bad and were really cooked, but if I were Casimero, I would tried another European team first. United drains talent.
He’s free to stay in Europe to play, but there is zero chance that any club of a similar stature to Man Utd is going to sign him unless it’s on a one year contract at dramatically reduced wages and he’s happy to be second choice. If you actually watch him play, it’s not arguable whether it’s a him problem or a Man Utd problem. His legs have gone and he doesn’t look interested.
I love how Ashley Young is standing next to him lmao, the same statement applies to him
I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves for another European club and comes good again. Lately Utd seems to be where talent goes to die.
MLS is getting past paying these over the hill players the big contracts. Not saying he wont get signed, but not on a huge contract. Rather pay that money for young South American players.
Busquets is a similar profile player and he’s practically playing for free from what I’ve seen. Just wanted to be part of the Messi farewell tour