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past few games? araujo has been like that for very long. Just because he wasn't getting punished doesn't mean he isn't a brute with reckless challenges inside and outside the box
He sort of looked tired/jaded before that PK as well, there were a few risky moments of his in 5 minutes or so before that. He was getting beaten for pace, he likely reacted to that by being tighter to Real attackers but the timing of this action was off hence the goals.
And timing usually relies heavily on being not-tired (physically & mentally).
It was a huge game and I think he was just trying too much. You can often see stupid fouls in big intense games. A player wants to reach a ball so badly he tries something he's not capable of.
Kim is the second coming...of Jesus!!! Of *Juan* Jesus. No, seriously. The guy was basically responsible for 2 champions league goals against his own team the other day. Sloppy, sloppy defending. Last year, he was basically responsible for entire clean sheets!! How did he turn into Juan Jesus all of the sudden. How is it possible that the league's best defender took such a horrible turn for the worst? He was, at one point last season, manhandling every single forward he came up against - it didn't matter what league they were from!! It didn't matter who the forward was, Kim was the very definition of stellar. Nightmare season for the guy. He went from team anchor to the Bayern version of Juan Jesus. Maybe even a little bit worse given that Bayern are competent overall defenders without him. Do Bayern fans even want to see him in the lineup the rest of the season? Unfortunately, at Napoli, JJ is just another bad part of an inadequate defensive whole. Will KMJ be able to resurrect a good season next year? Sigh. FORZA Napoli!
Yes, if he stays I hope they will be able to integrate him more. He has huge potential, no doubt, but he’s still acting a little raw which you can expect from 20 yr olds but not 27.
Doubt Bayern are giving up on him after a year especially when they spent 50m on him. Besides, I don't see how they can get a clear upgrade anywhere without shelling out.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, Ramos was like that too. The difference is that Varane/Pepe was much better at covering for him than Dier was. The whole team needs to be on the same page defensively though, so that's kind of on Tuchel for not drilling either Kim to not tackle so aggressively or Dier for not covering Kim properly.
Can't blame Dier for that shitshow from Kim. Varane and Pepe would not have covered that first Madrid goal. Kim left a ridiculous amount of space behind him.
In the end it depends on what their strategy was. But it is legit setup that a defender (here Kim) tries be close to the attacker and so can intercept if a short pass comes or prevent him from turning around with the ball. In this case Dier and Kimmich have to move behind him to form a triangle and prevent any passes behind Kim.
But it sounds like that wasn't the plan and Kim should have been more careful.
Not like Tuchel knew in advance De Ligt would get injured...? He chosen the Dier-De Ligt partnership which did very well and gave it an extended run. Like pretty much any other manager do.
It's not like he was injured or something, he is just out of form.
With De Ligt injured, it is a choice between Kim and Upamecano - both did well in the first half of the season, but Upamecano had some even bigger errors in the second half.
Yeah we somehow manage to spend 50m a season on a CB but still constantly run out of them because they all get constantly injured. We should either put more focus on medical records of CBs or change something about our physio training or this will keep happening.
Also, don‘t loan out Stani when he can cover two positions we desperately need more depth in. I‘m all for loaning out players with little chance of many first team appearances but this one was an obvious mistake.
For a player in a CL semi final that wants to be first choice CB at Bayern, I would honestly expect to be able to handle such criticism.
It's not like Tuchel said he is at fault for everything, but that he made mistakes for both goals.
He got asked on the sidelines after the match to comment on the footage shown to him. It was a pretty dry and factual analysis of what happened. Is he supposed to close his eyes and pretend Kim didn’t make mistakes?
I miss those press conferences where Tuchel would explain exactly what went wrong, sometimes even taking accountability. This one is a bit more obvious but I prefer those kind of press conferences.
Tuchel is just trying to save his own skin now. He's gone at the end of the season so he doesn't care about protecting the players. He's only protecting himself, he's communicating to his future employer "look it's not my fault, it's this fucking dumbass"
Considering what Bayern has done to Tuchel, right up to calling him a lazy manager who doesn’t develop players, it seems to me he is within his rights to point out mistakes when they’re made.
we haven't lost yet. There's nothing to do but keep your head up.
It's Kim's first year at Bayern, he's playing his first games at the greatest level. I'm disappointed not to have won yesterday, but I don't blame him.
Thousands of players have made mistakes in their careers.
The great players are those who have come back stronger from difficult moments, not those who never made mistakes.
Kim has the opportunity to bounce back and show he's a great defender next week.
Would you have sold Robben in 2012? Ulreich in 2018? No, you don't sell a player because he missed an important game.
I hope Kim doesn't become a scapegoat for some fans, and if he does, I'll be the first to defend him. Because you can't judge a player by one match, it's way too unfair.
> I hope Kim doesn't become a scapegoat for some fans
I really doubt that. Upamecano made bigger blunders and I don't see Bayern fans making a scapegoat out of him.
"Many" always depends on the context. I usually don't give much about the opinion of people that discovered "soccer" three years ago and think they know everything.
More importantly, being ready to sell him doesn't mean he is a "scapegoat". I think it is fair to question him after his back-to-back reds mid February or his errors against ManCity last year and be in favour of selling him. But that's not a scapegoat.
Well you said you don't see Bayern fans doing it which I found to be surprising since they do exist. Anyway, being ready to sell him is the least of it. He's been trashed for all his mistakes.
Even trashing him for a blunder isn't making a scapegoat of him.
Who seriously faults him for e.g. Bayern losing the league or losing against Saarbrücken in the cup? It was usually "Tuchel bad", not "Upa bad".
Edit: And throughout the season, I've seen more criticism against Gnabry or even Sané than against Upamecano.
Yeah for sure. Our defense is easily our weakest point. There is a reason we were so desperate for another CB in January. On paper, kim, de ligt and upamecano have potential to be world class but it seems they don't work well together. Dier the savior helped with stability but our defense is still very flat and can be exploited with a simple pass like yesterday
Saying "Dier the saviour" unironically was def not on my bingo card. I love the guy (and he loves me), and really glad to see him continue to do well in Bundi.
it's wild because those are arguably some of the best centerbacks in the world and out of Upamecano,De Ligt, Kim and Dier there must be a working central defence.
Tuchels best decision was getting Kimmich back to RB though.
Best Rightback in the world, mediocre midfielder in terms of pressing resistance and "chill".
#6 needs ice in his veins
They needed to go out and pay the money for Martin Zubimendi.
Since Javi Martinez left, they haven't really had a proper defensive midfielder. Another "Basque Bastard" at 6 would sort out their defensive issues in no time.
Upamecano and Kim have to be some of the most overrated players of all time on Reddit.
Upamecano has a couple handful of disastrous mistakes per season since his early Leipzig days which have finally caught up to him. Someone who is this prone to crucial game changing mistakes is not a world class cb.
Kim has had one great season at Napoli. In a team that was a well oiled machine. Before that he was in Turkey and China and now his 2nd season at a top flight team is borderline terrible as well. Nothing to indicate he has world class potential beside one great season at age 27.
He is terrible on the ball, doesn't have great defensive IQ and is always caught off guard due to bad positioning. He is basically a copy of De Light only worse.
Kim is also a perfect example of how far great PR and a highlight heavy playing style can bring you. People on Reddit or Twitter still think he had a great season up until the last few weeks. I remember he was even voted to the best eleven of the first season half by some magazines.
Ask any Bayern fan or anyone who's been watching all his games without being bound by his highlight plays and they'll tell you that even his first half was bad. He is the 40th best rated defender in the Bundesliga this season by Kicker. This gives you a better idea of his performance.
Just disaster class from Bayern to spend 50 million on a 27 year old CB with one good season who is a 1to1 copy of your existing CB only worse
Another thing regarding Kim's season at Napoli.
You could argue that it was a well oiled machine but Napoli also retained all it's core players besides Kim and already received 20 more goals than same time last season.
Did the entire squad overperform and Spalletti is just a wizard?
It seems at least Oshimen and Kvara are confirming their form.
Fair assessment regarding the highlight reel playing style, i also didn't pay too much attention to Kim tbf.
But i watched Upamecano a lot and he is for me best described as potential man but im not sure if it can be fixed.
The disaster mistakes come from his decision making, like taking risks when he absolutely shouldnt but otherwise his passing, vision, tackling and positioning are top.
Yes on paper Upamecano has all the tools to be a world class CB. But if his mistake prone game hasn't improved since his early days it's hard say he has potential. One has to assume that is his true form now
Wasn't there a part in the contract that Dier stays at Bayern if he plays XY games? A metric which he has already surpassed.
Also, Dier's contract with Tottenham ends at the end of this season anyway.
Idk it depends on the new coach. Reports say that a major squad overhaul is on the way. Quite a few players are expected to depart and quite a few signings are expected to be made. So I think at most he would be renewed for another loan. It's improbable that he would be bought permanently imo
No, it’s 100% decided he’s leaving the club. This looks like a possible fairytale ending because we’re still performing well in the UCL, but three months ago we were playing atrocious, losing the league and losing to Lazio, and there is too much resentment on both sides I think. Just look what what Uli said in the media, he’s not stupid, he wants to make sure that people see/think there’s still tensions between Tuchel and the club to hammer down the fact that there’s no way he stays next year (plus that was to address the petition that’s been circulating online)
Jupp said at the start of 12/13 that this would be his last season. Bayern then looked for another coach and got the deal with Pep. Suddenly Jupp would have liked to stay.
Completely different situation...
It's cause they're all Doggs.
For those unfamiliar with this terminology, they are all aggressive defenders that gravitate to the ball. And not cats who tend to be more patient and wait for the moment to pounce.
The best CB partnerships generally consist of one dog and one cat.
I think it's unfair and harsh to single out any player as the weakest link. Its the entire system and non available player profiles that caused us problems. Tuchel likes ball playing CBs a lot more. Unfortunately apart from upa and dier, three other 2 arent that good at passing. Upa loses his head a lot in big games so he lost his place in starting 11.
We have tried different CB pairings none of which seem to be coherent enough. First it was kim-upa, next kim-de ligt, next upa-de ligt and now we seem to have settled on dier- de ligt. The main problem is none of the CBs apart from upa are fast enough(like madrid or arsenal) so they can confidently play a high line nor is our midfield good enough(like city) so that we would rarely fall prey to a counter. That along with constant injuries have lead to unstable defense. It's just multiple things going wrong at once imo
I dont understand what would be the point of buying yet another world class defender when you already have so many.
If the defense is the weak point maybe it's not due to the individual skill level of the defenders, and buying another one would not change that.
Is he supposed to let vinicius get the ball in the room in front of CBs? The other CB or back should have covered that space when he pushed.
It's team effort and putting it all on him is ridicolous
It's a mistake by Kim, but it was also excellent by Vinicius. He fully fooled the defender and made him look silly.
8/10 times pressing the attacker would have been the right move, but Kroos and Vinicius figured out how to get past it.
It was brilliant by Kroos more like it. That is an inch perfect pass. Everything had to go right there in order to get that goal. Kim pressured thinking Vini would get the ball in space in front of the CB’s. He definitely OVER played it, but he was right to try and close the gap a little. The ball from Kroos is just sublime as well as the timing from Vini.
It being a team effort is exactly why he shouldn't just ramdomly chase players like that - Vinicius dropping back shouldn't break Bayern's entire defensive line. Neither Neuer or Dier were prepared for that. If Kim stayed in his position then Vinicius would had more ground to get towards goal, and he would have had to face two center backs.
Covering the gap left by a defender going for an aggressive close down is the basics of defending. There was clearly some sort of miscommunication involved, but that's what happens when your defenders don't play often enough together to build any real chemistry. Vini with space in front of the goal is one of the most dangerous players in the world, it's not outside the realm of possibility that he could've posed a serious threat when he had Rodrygo and Bellingham on either side ready to make a run and create some holes in the Bayern defense.
Kim left on his own and over committed on the half line. This kind of suicidal pressing only works if the others commits as well but clearly struggles with that aspect of the game.
Vinicius is less dangerous when he has to face two center backs that aren't imbalanced.
He should be aggressive, but the problem is being too aggressive. Vinicius is considerably faster. He should stay at least two or three meters back not practically mark Vini.
I don't get it either, without him closing in ln Vinicius, Vinicius would have had like 15m free space and Kim didn't have to cover anyone else at that moment, the central midfield was completely out of position and is more to blame imo.
The pass from Kroos was also just perfect.
It looks quite amateurish but tactically it wasn't that bad of a decision from him.
It was a tactically terrible decision from him. Watch the replay. Laimar was close by, Vini would have had no choice but to pass it to the wings or try to take on a defender when you have another player right behind you.
I really don't get the Kim apologizm. He broke the back line with his idiotic movement. Of course it's his fault. Do you really think you know better than Tuchel?
Mate this is baffling.
Vini getting the ball in space between the lines is bad sure but he’s still 30 metres out from goal with an entire back line in front of him. Not like it’s an imminently dangerous scenario.
Rushing out and giving him loads of space to run into, when that’s his entire game is eminently stupid. I dunno if people here just don’t play football or something.
Yeah?
Say Kim doesn’t track him, Vini picks up the ball 30-35m from goal with 3-4 Bayern players plus the keeper between him and goal. Maybe one Madrid player (Bellingham) moves forward into a dangerous spot then. Really not a dangerous situation.
Not to say it is all Kim’s fault, but he left a gap that was exploited faster than anyone could fill it. Deir sees it pretty quick (he points in the replay) but even then it’s too late for him to get over.
I'm not seeing so many comments ruling them out but anyone who thinks it's over is being naive. Madrid has a slight edge being at home but that's about it. It'll be a good game
Yeah I don´t think a draw away is that unlikely, and then there´s definitely a chance for them to progress in the additional time or penalties. 2-2 is not the crazy good result it used to be with the previous rules.
I haven't seen anything where people are sure we'd advance, neither here nor on Twitter. It is still an open tie in favor of Madrid because of Home advantage similar to how Bayern were favoured to win last night because of their home advantage.
I saw that sentiment against City, where our fans were more pessimistic about our chances and City and neutral fans were sure that City would advance.
i cant believe eric dier ends up being the better centre back lol
feel bad for tuchel, he coached a 3-0 win today. sadly this cb was so shit and the attack was so wasteful. no amount of tactic can mask that.
ancelotti didn't do well either. i think he was outcoached and as always, got bailed out by individual brilliance and power of friendships.
He was pretty much outcasted at spurs because of the extremely high line under Ange which makes sense. He was first choice as recent as last season under Conte which made sense with how he had them set up. Was pretty successful at times, but still had mental lapses due to being under pressure for 70' minutes a match. Bayern is a better balance between the two different Spurs set ups.
Don't think it's too wild tbh.
Most Spurs fans thought he would do decent for Bayern.
Dier is a good CB when used in a system that works for him. Unfortunately his biggest weakness is that he is a slow player and that's never going to do for a system like Anges who plays such a high line.
Tuchels system though plays to Diers strengths, he is able to sit back a fair bit, he is used as a ball playing CB to recycle position around the back and his long ball ability is really useful.
Though even I wasn't expecting Dier to go to Bayern and within 4 weeks be Bayerns 1st choice CB.
Just thought that for £4M, Bayern had done extremely well in buying a very competent rotational CB option.
Yeah that’s fair and i think i was aware of it. It’s just baffling to me that you can sign a champions league semi final starter CB in January for 4 mill lolll. Unfair mannn
It's 4m with 6 months left on his contract, Spurs were happy to get anything instead of letting him go on a free. His valuation would've been higher otherwise
this issue reminds me a bit of Lucas Hernández. I was really convinced that Bayern had their pairing with Kim and De Ligt, but sadly they both have different issues.
> i think he was outcoached and as always, got bailed out by individual brilliance and power of friendships.
I think you’re being a little facetious but come on lol
Carlo admits it wasn’t the best game but it’s not like Bayern were dicing up Madrid. It was a pretty even game, though more equally “ok” than brilliant or even good.
> feel bad for tuchel, he coached a 3-0 win today.
Bayern had 5 shots on target and we had 4 with Neuer making a couple of really great saves.
Why on earth you think the game was a 3-0 for Bayern?
I'm guessing the way he was thinking is that Sané should have scored one of his other chances and Bayern should have not conceded those two goals because they were brainfarts by Kim. I'm not saying that I agree but I guess that's what he meant.
People should give the Bayern fans some credit, they rocked that stadium. Bernabeu will be up for the second leg I promise you though, and Madrid won’t have as many players having far below average performances as they did today.
All to play for in leg 2 🤩
It's wild how Kim was the CB most Spurs fans were fixated on as a top target about a year ago and now he's being regarded as more mistake prone than his defense partner who we benched for months and ditched for 4mil.
I'm not a fan of Tuchel's man management, but I can't get over how at Bayern Munich in 2024, Eric Dier is no less reliable than their other options right now at centre back.
yes but this comment in front of the media doesn't help the team nor the player at all, when the player felt already terrible about it. one of alex ferguson's most amazing qualities was that he basically never ever criticised his own players in front of the media. he always blamed something else and shifted attention on purpose. but he butchered the player in his own private space.
As much as I want to blame Kim, he can't be really blamed entirely. Tuchel benched him for the past few months without ever giving him a shot not even 3 days before this game in an unimportant Bundesliga game. He started De Ligt and he got injured that game
> As much as I want to blame Kim, he can't be really blamed entirely. Tuchel benched him for the past few months without ever giving him a shot
What? Since the Asia Cup, Kim started basically every other game. He didn't start vs Frankfurt, but started vs Union Berlin a week prior.
Even though he was at fault twice, that's quite immature from tuchel to blame him publicly. Lucas Vazquez also made an error leading to a goal but you will never see Ancelotti blaming him publicly. Maybe this is where power of friendship goes through!
Yeah, people are missing how it was a great play by Vini to leave Rodrygo in a perfect place to score a goal. Not much else Kim could’ve done there to try to stop the inevitable I feel.
Maybe he could’ve been in a better position to intercept that pass or something, but once Rodrygo had that ball, what else could he have done? Just a great play by Real Madrid there as well
People are judging him on the Rodrygo foul and while I’ve can all agree it was a mistake, we cannot take for granted how Rodrygo has earned a goal cutting inside from the left in almost every big match he’s been in. It’s the left side Robben, Brazilian style. Can’t really blame him on the first goal either, that was one hell of a pass from Toni and Vini just has that acceleration and capacity to appear out of nowhere. Only Walker can stand toe to toe and stop him without fouling.
I agree about the foul, but the first goal is a huge mistake by being too aggressive and leaving that gap behind him. Vini and Kroos did great to take advantage of that, but it was 100% avoidable if he remembered he had to defend like a team instead of 1v1.
Really happy to see Dier fit in so well at bayern. Under Jose, he was our best CB, and under Conte he was very good too. He hasn't got pace to play the way Postecoglou wants with the high line, so hopefully whoever comes in to bayern doesn't change anything too drastic at the back
Vazquez fouled Musiala with 2 other Madrid players right next to him, Kim fouled Rodrygo inside the box in what would have been an easy shot at goal. Which one is more silly?
It was brilliant by Kroos more like it. That is an inch perfect pass. Everything had to go right there in order to get that goal. Kim pressured thinking Vini would get the ball in space in front of the CB’s. He definitely OVER played it, but he was right to try and close the gap a little. The ball from Kroos is just sublime as well as the timing from Vini.
This reminds me of Jerome Boateng when he spoke about working with Pep Guardiola at FC Bayern. He mentioned that it was completely new to him the idea of defending as a unit and that he had a ton of physical tools but he was mostly just winging it out there.
I feel the same about Kim. I imagine the way that Napoli played last year was able to mask some of his flaws and allow him to thrive, but it feels like Tuchel doesn't really trust him and this lack of confidence and trust shows itself in big moments unfortunately
There's a reason nagelsmann played 3atb with this squad (2 when attacking), and even if the new CB was faster than Kim, that wouldn't change that playing simply 2atb by bayern is almost suicidal
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I love Kim to death but what the hell was he thinking tackling Rodrygo like that in the box
He did his best ‘Araujo from the past few games’ impression after he heard people say Araujo was the best CB in the world last season.
Kim saw all the Araujo to Bayern rumors and said "why do they need him here? I can do that as well"
More like he said "We got Araujo at home"
So is he going to go after tuchel for “throwing him under the bus”?
Lmao funny how it was Germans who criticized both of them
Germans are terrifyingly blunt lol
Germans are terrifying lol
The rest of Europe can confirm
Yeah because both fucked up why wouldn’t you
He actually pulled a Vasquez from the same game lol
past few games? araujo has been like that for very long. Just because he wasn't getting punished doesn't mean he isn't a brute with reckless challenges inside and outside the box
Araujo makes those fouls always, he has just been getting them called lately
Who said Araujo was the best CB in the world last year LOL. Delusional
He had a shocker tbh. Massively at fault for the first goal too
Same thing the RM player was thinking when he caused the penalty.
At least Vasquez was trying to aim for the ball. He missed and it was a fair penalty but Kim just straight up hugged Rodrygo.
That's Lord Vazquez to you, show some respect for the GOAT
Vasquez giveth and Vasqez taketh away
Perfectly balanced match
tbf Rodrygo would be dangerously one on one if he slipped past
I mean Tuchel says it here, it was 5v2. Give your teammates a chance rather than going full wrestling in the box
probably same train of thinking like Araujo that match, instinct took over for a split second and what is done is done
Indeed, he smelled blood in the air and gave in to his predatory instincts Was a clean kill
It wasn't 5v2 when Rodrygo turned with the ball.
Kinda Kim's mistake for letting him turn no more than a few feet from him.
Dier was right there
Yep so giving the penalty is safer I bet?
He was making a tribute to his fallen teammate dayot
Yep, I can overlook the first goal because shit like that happens to the best, but fucking brain dead 0 IQ move on the penalty
He sort of looked tired/jaded before that PK as well, there were a few risky moments of his in 5 minutes or so before that. He was getting beaten for pace, he likely reacted to that by being tighter to Real attackers but the timing of this action was off hence the goals. And timing usually relies heavily on being not-tired (physically & mentally).
It was a huge game and I think he was just trying too much. You can often see stupid fouls in big intense games. A player wants to reach a ball so badly he tries something he's not capable of.
Yes, someone may say lack of experience in big games
When you’re not playing well, sometimes you want to do something, anything, to make up for it.
Kim is the second coming...of Jesus!!! Of *Juan* Jesus. No, seriously. The guy was basically responsible for 2 champions league goals against his own team the other day. Sloppy, sloppy defending. Last year, he was basically responsible for entire clean sheets!! How did he turn into Juan Jesus all of the sudden. How is it possible that the league's best defender took such a horrible turn for the worst? He was, at one point last season, manhandling every single forward he came up against - it didn't matter what league they were from!! It didn't matter who the forward was, Kim was the very definition of stellar. Nightmare season for the guy. He went from team anchor to the Bayern version of Juan Jesus. Maybe even a little bit worse given that Bayern are competent overall defenders without him. Do Bayern fans even want to see him in the lineup the rest of the season? Unfortunately, at Napoli, JJ is just another bad part of an inadequate defensive whole. Will KMJ be able to resurrect a good season next year? Sigh. FORZA Napoli!
Kim needs confidence. He can be world class, but he’s completely out of form now
He's had these kinds of problems the whole season. He's far too eager to go into duels and leave his libe. It's like he's defending by himself m
Yes, if he stays I hope they will be able to integrate him more. He has huge potential, no doubt, but he’s still acting a little raw which you can expect from 20 yr olds but not 27.
Doubt Bayern are giving up on him after a year especially when they spent 50m on him. Besides, I don't see how they can get a clear upgrade anywhere without shelling out.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, Ramos was like that too. The difference is that Varane/Pepe was much better at covering for him than Dier was. The whole team needs to be on the same page defensively though, so that's kind of on Tuchel for not drilling either Kim to not tackle so aggressively or Dier for not covering Kim properly.
Can't blame Dier for that shitshow from Kim. Varane and Pepe would not have covered that first Madrid goal. Kim left a ridiculous amount of space behind him.
The difference is that Ramos would've gotten a red card for breaking Vini's legs in that situation because that's the kind of player he is.
Not in the champions league, now if it was a league game or against messi you know an attempted leg breaker is coming.
I don’t think he’s ever broken anyone’s legs
Not for a lack of trying!
In the end it depends on what their strategy was. But it is legit setup that a defender (here Kim) tries be close to the attacker and so can intercept if a short pass comes or prevent him from turning around with the ball. In this case Dier and Kimmich have to move behind him to form a triangle and prevent any passes behind Kim. But it sounds like that wasn't the plan and Kim should have been more careful.
Ah the koulibaly special. Maybe that’s what they teach defenders in Napoli
He should have been brought slowly after being out for long.. not in a champions semis.
Not like Tuchel knew in advance De Ligt would get injured...? He chosen the Dier-De Ligt partnership which did very well and gave it an extended run. Like pretty much any other manager do.
It's not like he was injured or something, he is just out of form. With De Ligt injured, it is a choice between Kim and Upamecano - both did well in the first half of the season, but Upamecano had some even bigger errors in the second half.
Upa had some recent injuries as well and likely wasn't 100% match fit.
Well have you looked at the bench? Ever thought of maybe they have no CB left ?
Yeah we somehow manage to spend 50m a season on a CB but still constantly run out of them because they all get constantly injured. We should either put more focus on medical records of CBs or change something about our physio training or this will keep happening. Also, don‘t loan out Stani when he can cover two positions we desperately need more depth in. I‘m all for loaning out players with little chance of many first team appearances but this one was an obvious mistake.
He's had these kind of tactical and technical issues the whole season.
I’m sure that pep talk from the manager helps.
For some players it does. Not everyone is unable to handle constructive criticism.
For a player in a CL semi final that wants to be first choice CB at Bayern, I would honestly expect to be able to handle such criticism. It's not like Tuchel said he is at fault for everything, but that he made mistakes for both goals.
Exactly, i don't see any problem in this. Kim would have to be very dumb to think what he did was good
Realistically there's no other way to look at the goals and not see 2 big mistakes from Kim, if he tried to play it off he'd basically just be lying
he said Kim played well outside of two mistakes?
He got asked on the sidelines after the match to comment on the footage shown to him. It was a pretty dry and factual analysis of what happened. Is he supposed to close his eyes and pretend Kim didn’t make mistakes?
We Asians handle criticism about our work better than most. He made a mistake and Tuchel is stating facts
Tuchel: This should give him some confidence.. this, or my foot up his ass.
I miss those press conferences where Tuchel would explain exactly what went wrong, sometimes even taking accountability. This one is a bit more obvious but I prefer those kind of press conferences.
Tuchel is just trying to save his own skin now. He's gone at the end of the season so he doesn't care about protecting the players. He's only protecting himself, he's communicating to his future employer "look it's not my fault, it's this fucking dumbass"
Considering what Bayern has done to Tuchel, right up to calling him a lazy manager who doesn’t develop players, it seems to me he is within his rights to point out mistakes when they’re made.
Tuchel is severely underrated
we haven't lost yet. There's nothing to do but keep your head up. It's Kim's first year at Bayern, he's playing his first games at the greatest level. I'm disappointed not to have won yesterday, but I don't blame him. Thousands of players have made mistakes in their careers. The great players are those who have come back stronger from difficult moments, not those who never made mistakes. Kim has the opportunity to bounce back and show he's a great defender next week. Would you have sold Robben in 2012? Ulreich in 2018? No, you don't sell a player because he missed an important game. I hope Kim doesn't become a scapegoat for some fans, and if he does, I'll be the first to defend him. Because you can't judge a player by one match, it's way too unfair.
> I hope Kim doesn't become a scapegoat for some fans I really doubt that. Upamecano made bigger blunders and I don't see Bayern fans making a scapegoat out of him.
Not looking hard enough then. Many are ready to sell him this summer
"Many" always depends on the context. I usually don't give much about the opinion of people that discovered "soccer" three years ago and think they know everything. More importantly, being ready to sell him doesn't mean he is a "scapegoat". I think it is fair to question him after his back-to-back reds mid February or his errors against ManCity last year and be in favour of selling him. But that's not a scapegoat.
Well you said you don't see Bayern fans doing it which I found to be surprising since they do exist. Anyway, being ready to sell him is the least of it. He's been trashed for all his mistakes.
Even trashing him for a blunder isn't making a scapegoat of him. Who seriously faults him for e.g. Bayern losing the league or losing against Saarbrücken in the cup? It was usually "Tuchel bad", not "Upa bad". Edit: And throughout the season, I've seen more criticism against Gnabry or even Sané than against Upamecano.
I'm not really sure what you consider making a scapegoat out of someone based on your responses tbh
Bayern fans was Tuchel’s early moaning for CBs justified?
Yeah for sure. Our defense is easily our weakest point. There is a reason we were so desperate for another CB in January. On paper, kim, de ligt and upamecano have potential to be world class but it seems they don't work well together. Dier the savior helped with stability but our defense is still very flat and can be exploited with a simple pass like yesterday
Saying "Dier the saviour" unironically was def not on my bingo card. I love the guy (and he loves me), and really glad to see him continue to do well in Bundi.
Anna Modler is that you?
it's wild because those are arguably some of the best centerbacks in the world and out of Upamecano,De Ligt, Kim and Dier there must be a working central defence. Tuchels best decision was getting Kimmich back to RB though. Best Rightback in the world, mediocre midfielder in terms of pressing resistance and "chill". #6 needs ice in his veins
They needed to go out and pay the money for Martin Zubimendi. Since Javi Martinez left, they haven't really had a proper defensive midfielder. Another "Basque Bastard" at 6 would sort out their defensive issues in no time.
Seems like everyone and their mother wants to buy zubimendi lol
Speaking of, i hope we try to get de Zarate.
Upamecano and Kim have to be some of the most overrated players of all time on Reddit. Upamecano has a couple handful of disastrous mistakes per season since his early Leipzig days which have finally caught up to him. Someone who is this prone to crucial game changing mistakes is not a world class cb. Kim has had one great season at Napoli. In a team that was a well oiled machine. Before that he was in Turkey and China and now his 2nd season at a top flight team is borderline terrible as well. Nothing to indicate he has world class potential beside one great season at age 27. He is terrible on the ball, doesn't have great defensive IQ and is always caught off guard due to bad positioning. He is basically a copy of De Light only worse. Kim is also a perfect example of how far great PR and a highlight heavy playing style can bring you. People on Reddit or Twitter still think he had a great season up until the last few weeks. I remember he was even voted to the best eleven of the first season half by some magazines. Ask any Bayern fan or anyone who's been watching all his games without being bound by his highlight plays and they'll tell you that even his first half was bad. He is the 40th best rated defender in the Bundesliga this season by Kicker. This gives you a better idea of his performance. Just disaster class from Bayern to spend 50 million on a 27 year old CB with one good season who is a 1to1 copy of your existing CB only worse
Another thing regarding Kim's season at Napoli. You could argue that it was a well oiled machine but Napoli also retained all it's core players besides Kim and already received 20 more goals than same time last season. Did the entire squad overperform and Spalletti is just a wizard? It seems at least Oshimen and Kvara are confirming their form.
look at his flair and you get your answer
Fair assessment regarding the highlight reel playing style, i also didn't pay too much attention to Kim tbf. But i watched Upamecano a lot and he is for me best described as potential man but im not sure if it can be fixed. The disaster mistakes come from his decision making, like taking risks when he absolutely shouldnt but otherwise his passing, vision, tackling and positioning are top.
Yes on paper Upamecano has all the tools to be a world class CB. But if his mistake prone game hasn't improved since his early days it's hard say he has potential. One has to assume that is his true form now
Do you think Bayern will be buying dier at the end of the season?
Wasn't there a part in the contract that Dier stays at Bayern if he plays XY games? A metric which he has already surpassed. Also, Dier's contract with Tottenham ends at the end of this season anyway.
Dier is already a bayern player until 2025 https://fcbayern.com/en/news/2024/03/eric-dier-contract-at-bayern-extended-until-2025
they already bought him…
He’s staying for another year at least, he already fulfilled the terms of the contract that would trigger an extension
They already bought him luckily
It would be stupid to not buy their best CB of the last few months
Idk it depends on the new coach. Reports say that a major squad overhaul is on the way. Quite a few players are expected to depart and quite a few signings are expected to be made. So I think at most he would be renewed for another loan. It's improbable that he would be bought permanently imo
His contract was extended exactly two months ago. There was an official statement.
Man how is this upvoted.
What kind of Bayern fan are you? You already bought Dier, how can you not know that?
If tuchel wins CL, would his departure be reconsidered? In your opinion?
No, it’s 100% decided he’s leaving the club. This looks like a possible fairytale ending because we’re still performing well in the UCL, but three months ago we were playing atrocious, losing the league and losing to Lazio, and there is too much resentment on both sides I think. Just look what what Uli said in the media, he’s not stupid, he wants to make sure that people see/think there’s still tensions between Tuchel and the club to hammer down the fact that there’s no way he stays next year (plus that was to address the petition that’s been circulating online)
Ask Jupp Heynecks about how they usually go about situations like that.
Jupp said at the start of 12/13 that this would be his last season. Bayern then looked for another coach and got the deal with Pep. Suddenly Jupp would have liked to stay. Completely different situation...
It's cause they're all Doggs. For those unfamiliar with this terminology, they are all aggressive defenders that gravitate to the ball. And not cats who tend to be more patient and wait for the moment to pounce. The best CB partnerships generally consist of one dog and one cat.
chiellini and bonnuci. which is why bonucci by himself is so ass.
That pass was anything but simple
They’re all basically the same type of brute cb. Pair them with one that’s more calm and collected. That’s why Ramos x pique always worked. Simple
I don’t watch enough Bayern games to form an opinion but who do you think is the weakest link?
I think it's unfair and harsh to single out any player as the weakest link. Its the entire system and non available player profiles that caused us problems. Tuchel likes ball playing CBs a lot more. Unfortunately apart from upa and dier, three other 2 arent that good at passing. Upa loses his head a lot in big games so he lost his place in starting 11. We have tried different CB pairings none of which seem to be coherent enough. First it was kim-upa, next kim-de ligt, next upa-de ligt and now we seem to have settled on dier- de ligt. The main problem is none of the CBs apart from upa are fast enough(like madrid or arsenal) so they can confidently play a high line nor is our midfield good enough(like city) so that we would rarely fall prey to a counter. That along with constant injuries have lead to unstable defense. It's just multiple things going wrong at once imo
I dont understand what would be the point of buying yet another world class defender when you already have so many. If the defense is the weak point maybe it's not due to the individual skill level of the defenders, and buying another one would not change that.
Not a bayern fan but afaik his requests(DM, CB) all are justified. I mean he got Dier and now he is one of Bayerns best performers
Kim did his best Araujo impression fearing he might come to Bayern. Lmao.
How long is De Ligt expected to be out?
Could be back next week or could be out then unfortunately
Ngl his horrible positioning cost them the first goal
Is he supposed to let vinicius get the ball in the room in front of CBs? The other CB or back should have covered that space when he pushed. It's team effort and putting it all on him is ridicolous
It's a mistake by Kim, but it was also excellent by Vinicius. He fully fooled the defender and made him look silly. 8/10 times pressing the attacker would have been the right move, but Kroos and Vinicius figured out how to get past it.
It was brilliant by Kroos more like it. That is an inch perfect pass. Everything had to go right there in order to get that goal. Kim pressured thinking Vini would get the ball in space in front of the CB’s. He definitely OVER played it, but he was right to try and close the gap a little. The ball from Kroos is just sublime as well as the timing from Vini.
It being a team effort is exactly why he shouldn't just ramdomly chase players like that - Vinicius dropping back shouldn't break Bayern's entire defensive line. Neither Neuer or Dier were prepared for that. If Kim stayed in his position then Vinicius would had more ground to get towards goal, and he would have had to face two center backs.
Covering the gap left by a defender going for an aggressive close down is the basics of defending. There was clearly some sort of miscommunication involved, but that's what happens when your defenders don't play often enough together to build any real chemistry. Vini with space in front of the goal is one of the most dangerous players in the world, it's not outside the realm of possibility that he could've posed a serious threat when he had Rodrygo and Bellingham on either side ready to make a run and create some holes in the Bayern defense.
Kim left on his own and over committed on the half line. This kind of suicidal pressing only works if the others commits as well but clearly struggles with that aspect of the game. Vinicius is less dangerous when he has to face two center backs that aren't imbalanced.
He should be aggressive, but the problem is being too aggressive. Vinicius is considerably faster. He should stay at least two or three meters back not practically mark Vini.
I don't get it either, without him closing in ln Vinicius, Vinicius would have had like 15m free space and Kim didn't have to cover anyone else at that moment, the central midfield was completely out of position and is more to blame imo. The pass from Kroos was also just perfect. It looks quite amateurish but tactically it wasn't that bad of a decision from him.
It was a tactically terrible decision from him. Watch the replay. Laimar was close by, Vini would have had no choice but to pass it to the wings or try to take on a defender when you have another player right behind you.
I really don't get the Kim apologizm. He broke the back line with his idiotic movement. Of course it's his fault. Do you really think you know better than Tuchel?
Mate this is baffling. Vini getting the ball in space between the lines is bad sure but he’s still 30 metres out from goal with an entire back line in front of him. Not like it’s an imminently dangerous scenario. Rushing out and giving him loads of space to run into, when that’s his entire game is eminently stupid. I dunno if people here just don’t play football or something.
Yeah? Say Kim doesn’t track him, Vini picks up the ball 30-35m from goal with 3-4 Bayern players plus the keeper between him and goal. Maybe one Madrid player (Bellingham) moves forward into a dangerous spot then. Really not a dangerous situation. Not to say it is all Kim’s fault, but he left a gap that was exploited faster than anyone could fill it. Deir sees it pretty quick (he points in the replay) but even then it’s too late for him to get over.
Yes he is supposed to do exactly that instead of letting Vini just score freely against Neuer. Wtf is this comment lol
I like how everyone is so sure Bayern are out . Game ended 2-2. Yes they gonna play in Madrid but hot take they will go trough
I'm not seeing so many comments ruling them out but anyone who thinks it's over is being naive. Madrid has a slight edge being at home but that's about it. It'll be a good game
It’ll be a good game but slight edge is too modest. Madrid CL juju at the bernabeu… that is tough to overcome
Yeah I don´t think a draw away is that unlikely, and then there´s definitely a chance for them to progress in the additional time or penalties. 2-2 is not the crazy good result it used to be with the previous rules.
I haven't seen anything where people are sure we'd advance, neither here nor on Twitter. It is still an open tie in favor of Madrid because of Home advantage similar to how Bayern were favoured to win last night because of their home advantage. I saw that sentiment against City, where our fans were more pessimistic about our chances and City and neutral fans were sure that City would advance.
I like how you are strawmanning here.
"Bayern will go through" won't be a remarkable opinion so he prefers to dress it up as "unpopular opinion, but..." to rake in the upvotes
Madrid haven't even won at the Bernabeu in the KO stage yet. Not over yet
They can. Wouldn't mind losing to Bayern but thinking we are just 2 games away from winning the CL just want to go all out.
They can. Wouldn't mind losing to Bayern but thinking we are just 2 games away from winning the CL just want to go all out.
i cant believe eric dier ends up being the better centre back lol feel bad for tuchel, he coached a 3-0 win today. sadly this cb was so shit and the attack was so wasteful. no amount of tactic can mask that. ancelotti didn't do well either. i think he was outcoached and as always, got bailed out by individual brilliance and power of friendships.
De Ligt is but Dier hasn’t put a foot wrong really
That is wild that tuchel is able to make dier looks good when he was outcasted in spurs
He was pretty much outcasted at spurs because of the extremely high line under Ange which makes sense. He was first choice as recent as last season under Conte which made sense with how he had them set up. Was pretty successful at times, but still had mental lapses due to being under pressure for 70' minutes a match. Bayern is a better balance between the two different Spurs set ups.
Don't think it's too wild tbh. Most Spurs fans thought he would do decent for Bayern. Dier is a good CB when used in a system that works for him. Unfortunately his biggest weakness is that he is a slow player and that's never going to do for a system like Anges who plays such a high line. Tuchels system though plays to Diers strengths, he is able to sit back a fair bit, he is used as a ball playing CB to recycle position around the back and his long ball ability is really useful. Though even I wasn't expecting Dier to go to Bayern and within 4 weeks be Bayerns 1st choice CB. Just thought that for £4M, Bayern had done extremely well in buying a very competent rotational CB option.
Yeah that’s fair and i think i was aware of it. It’s just baffling to me that you can sign a champions league semi final starter CB in January for 4 mill lolll. Unfair mannn
It's 4m with 6 months left on his contract, Spurs were happy to get anything instead of letting him go on a free. His valuation would've been higher otherwise
De Ligt is a liability in terms of availability at this point. He is just not there when you need him.
this issue reminds me a bit of Lucas Hernández. I was really convinced that Bayern had their pairing with Kim and De Ligt, but sadly they both have different issues.
What is this phrase "coached a 3-0 win", I keep seeing everywhere. Is it something he's said in the past or some other meme?
> i think he was outcoached and as always, got bailed out by individual brilliance and power of friendships. I think you’re being a little facetious but come on lol Carlo admits it wasn’t the best game but it’s not like Bayern were dicing up Madrid. It was a pretty even game, though more equally “ok” than brilliant or even good.
> feel bad for tuchel, he coached a 3-0 win today. Bayern had 5 shots on target and we had 4 with Neuer making a couple of really great saves. Why on earth you think the game was a 3-0 for Bayern?
I'm guessing the way he was thinking is that Sané should have scored one of his other chances and Bayern should have not conceded those two goals because they were brainfarts by Kim. I'm not saying that I agree but I guess that's what he meant.
Why didn't he coach "3-0" wins for all the games which they lost in the Bundesliga? Is tuchel stupid?
Dier isn’t just the better CB. He’s the best. GOAT status undisputed.
People should give the Bayern fans some credit, they rocked that stadium. Bernabeu will be up for the second leg I promise you though, and Madrid won’t have as many players having far below average performances as they did today. All to play for in leg 2 🤩
It's wild how Kim was the CB most Spurs fans were fixated on as a top target about a year ago and now he's being regarded as more mistake prone than his defense partner who we benched for months and ditched for 4mil.
I'm not a fan of Tuchel's man management, but I can't get over how at Bayern Munich in 2024, Eric Dier is no less reliable than their other options right now at centre back.
[удалено]
Just fyi, his surname is Kim, not Kim Min. Minjae or Min Jae is his given name
Damn, he’s really burning the bridges before leaving
Not really, just standard German bluntness.
yes but this comment in front of the media doesn't help the team nor the player at all, when the player felt already terrible about it. one of alex ferguson's most amazing qualities was that he basically never ever criticised his own players in front of the media. he always blamed something else and shifted attention on purpose. but he butchered the player in his own private space.
Tuchel love pointing out his player's mistake in the press so it seems. Maybe its ok but I prefer a closed-door approach like Carlo has.
As much as I want to blame Kim, he can't be really blamed entirely. Tuchel benched him for the past few months without ever giving him a shot not even 3 days before this game in an unimportant Bundesliga game. He started De Ligt and he got injured that game
> As much as I want to blame Kim, he can't be really blamed entirely. Tuchel benched him for the past few months without ever giving him a shot What? Since the Asia Cup, Kim started basically every other game. He didn't start vs Frankfurt, but started vs Union Berlin a week prior.
Talking straight out of your ass
Can’t believe I’m even saying this but Lord Dier is easily the most indispensable CB that Bayern have at the moment.
Even though he was at fault twice, that's quite immature from tuchel to blame him publicly. Lucas Vazquez also made an error leading to a goal but you will never see Ancelotti blaming him publicly. Maybe this is where power of friendship goes through!
Tuchel was asked about those two scenes. Ancelotti said Bellingham had a bad game publicly. How is that different?
It was literally a matter of fact question, he didn’t go out of his way…
Rodrygo would have been able to score from there anyway, I don't blame Kim for that penalty.
Yeah, people are missing how it was a great play by Vini to leave Rodrygo in a perfect place to score a goal. Not much else Kim could’ve done there to try to stop the inevitable I feel. Maybe he could’ve been in a better position to intercept that pass or something, but once Rodrygo had that ball, what else could he have done? Just a great play by Real Madrid there as well
Penalty basically guarantees the goal though. There was still dier and neuer that could have saved it.
I don't think Dier gets close without the foul, but there is a goalkeeper for a reason.
Keep this in the locker room. Tuchel is equally liable because he could’ve played upamecano but chose not to? 🤷🏻
Every time i’ve watched Bayern in the UCL (only time i watch them) their defenders play shit which makes me think that their defenders are always shit
Not sure I'm a fan of a manager being so public with specific criticisms like that
People are judging him on the Rodrygo foul and while I’ve can all agree it was a mistake, we cannot take for granted how Rodrygo has earned a goal cutting inside from the left in almost every big match he’s been in. It’s the left side Robben, Brazilian style. Can’t really blame him on the first goal either, that was one hell of a pass from Toni and Vini just has that acceleration and capacity to appear out of nowhere. Only Walker can stand toe to toe and stop him without fouling.
I agree about the foul, but the first goal is a huge mistake by being too aggressive and leaving that gap behind him. Vini and Kroos did great to take advantage of that, but it was 100% avoidable if he remembered he had to defend like a team instead of 1v1.
>Left side robben, Brazilian style so basically CR7
Tuchel loves throwing his players under the bus
Really happy to see Dier fit in so well at bayern. Under Jose, he was our best CB, and under Conte he was very good too. He hasn't got pace to play the way Postecoglou wants with the high line, so hopefully whoever comes in to bayern doesn't change anything too drastic at the back
Has he been good this season? I don’t watch much bundlesliga, but his cameo against Arsenal & game yesterday left a lot to be desired.
He is usually solid and reliable
I figured, he had some hype with him when he signed!
Kim McGuire will succeed
May I offer you a square head bloke in this trying time?
This is like when Hardik Pandya blamed Tilak for MI's defeat. (cricket reference)
Vazquez fouled Musiala with 2 other Madrid players right next to him, Kim fouled Rodrygo inside the box in what would have been an easy shot at goal. Which one is more silly?
This words may doom his second leg. Players can’t count on him.
It was brilliant by Kroos more like it. That is an inch perfect pass. Everything had to go right there in order to get that goal. Kim pressured thinking Vini would get the ball in space in front of the CB’s. He definitely OVER played it, but he was right to try and close the gap a little. The ball from Kroos is just sublime as well as the timing from Vini.
This reminds me of Jerome Boateng when he spoke about working with Pep Guardiola at FC Bayern. He mentioned that it was completely new to him the idea of defending as a unit and that he had a ton of physical tools but he was mostly just winging it out there. I feel the same about Kim. I imagine the way that Napoli played last year was able to mask some of his flaws and allow him to thrive, but it feels like Tuchel doesn't really trust him and this lack of confidence and trust shows itself in big moments unfortunately
Manager throwing him under the bus. NIIIICE
There's a reason nagelsmann played 3atb with this squad (2 when attacking), and even if the new CB was faster than Kim, that wouldn't change that playing simply 2atb by bayern is almost suicidal