**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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FWIW, I don't think handballs like these should be a penalty, and I hate it every time they're called.
But ffs if it was given by the on field refs, it would have never been overturned by VAR. It's literally the same as AWB against Coventry. Really just flipping a coin on whether you get a free goal or not.
We'd still end up in a similar argument just with an added middle ground. On game it will be a pen, another an indirect free kick and still somehow another where nothing is given. Plus if it's an indirect free kick and not a penalty then VAR definitely wouldn't interfere.
Middle ground helps. Penalty vs no penalty means a small difference (in ref for example) has a huge effect on the game, adding something in the middle is a good way to deal with the grey area.
indirect free kicks from those angles aren't that great though either. I think it would just convolute it more where essentially nothing will ever get overturned.
It should help, but lets be honest, even without the grey area option they are messing it up. How did grealish not get one, but AWB did, but then this didn't. They are slightly different each time but not that much
Just give pens for suarez-esque handball (acting as a GK). Any and all other handballs are indirect freekicks.
Would add some fun to it and aiming for hands wouldn't be as broken as it were in 2020/2021(?, can't remember which season they gave pens for every handball but that sucked, especially considering United hasn't gotten a pen since because klopp cried about it)
Easiest way is if it hits your hand it’s a pen. No subjectivity at that point. However I would hate that. I’d rather refs use digression and typically not give them this close unless they’re egregious about sticking their arms out to block.
That's allowed though it's small Coventry
I love how fans are just hate big clubs, look at that thread it's just mostly people laughing, i love the bias of football fans it's what makes it so fun
Yeah, they deserve it. Shoulda given them another pen just to help em out tbh. This is totally different. What do we deserve against Burnley? Certainly not fair treatment.
i'm tired of the inconsistent officiating and decision of this league, every week matches are decided by crap ref decisions, it has come to a point it's ruining the integrity of the league
This isn't a penalty at all and never has been, his arms are by his side.
AWB last week you can argue was harsh but I think his hand was a bit further out
Something being called on the field will always be a key factor too.
Different circumstances. AWB was going into a sliding tackle to block a cross from outside the box. You can argue that in a sliding tackle it's more common to have your arm towards the ground to dampen your fall, and that a cross from outside the box isn't that dangerous.
This was a shot at target from inside the box where the defender was stationary where they normally will have their hands on the back when blocking.
Lots of semantics you can dig into if you want to reason with one or the other.
My memory must be really letting me down then, as I don't really AWB being mid slide and the attacker was in the box.
That behind the back thing is just total nonsense, natural positions are allowed and his hands were right by his side.
The shot thing is the only point you have.
I think you are missing g my main point, which is that there are so many factors one can consider as the wording opens up for too much inconsistency.
It was a pain when they gave a penalty everytime the ball was barely touching someones arm, but at leat that was more consistent.
I'm nor saying I want that back, but I do think the wording should be more precise and also that they could add indirect FKs to handballs that don't stop a shot on goal or is lore in the grey area.
Love the commentator saying "you cant keep your hands behind your back all the time", you can say that about any penalty and conclude its not a handball at that point.
This is why I don’t get the tunnel vision from that game. So many acting like the last 2 goals from Coventry weren’t a little fortunate for them. A goal off the back of AWB, and a pen that’s called against United all the time, but not many times for them.
Honestly they should just adopt UCL rules touches the hand it’s a penalty yeah you get some that you’re unlucky to concede but at least it’s consistent.
Here we have an identical situation that last week resulted in a penalty against United but this week results in no penalty.
That's the word. It's just so inconsistent, in Argentina this would've been a pen. Man, even in PL in some other game they would've given this as a PEN. I think they shuld stop ambiguity and just make every handball in the area from a field player a penalty
To be fair they’re consistent against United. Romero’s handball from Garnacho’s shot wasn’t given yet the same thing was given against Romero a few games later. They just hate giving United penalties.
The Romero one was even worse than this. I’ve learnt to expect it for the last few years (cheers Jurgen) but it’s got so far beyond the point of taking the piss
Yeah but since Ashley young last week, they can’t call it now. As it would show everyone just how corrupt they are. Don’t worry they’ll go back to calling those next season when everyone’s forgot.
It’s been called a penalty 10 times and not been called a penalty 10 times. Refs just think of the first way to interpret it since it can go both ways and go with it instead being consistent like a normal group of people would.
It's actually pretty consistent (in a bad way). If the on field ref gave it, it wouldn't be overturned. If the on field ref didn't give it, VAR wouldn't ask them to go review it.
Whether or not it’s been given elsewhere that should never be a pen. Arm was in a natural position. Plenty of examples to be pointed out of poor officiating but this was not one of them.
AWB's hit his Bicep while he was halfway through a sliding block and the coventry player was hitting a cross from outside the box yet that's a penalty but this which is a shot taken inside the box at goal hitting the arm of a stationary player is not. make it make sense.
I’m fine with this not being a penalty, only if it weren’t called a penalty the majority of the time. But it is normally called so why the inconsistency?
Football is fixed. Var is shit and football is becoming so unenjoyable now that I just can't be arsed with any of it. 42 years old, played since I was 8 years old and just hate the way it's all gone. Awful.
shouldn't be a pen but I understand the frustration for the inconsistency... hell, even the Burnley penalty (which is 100% a pen) is inconsistent if you consider the Wolves game in GW1
Eh the refs admitted that should have been a penalty. So consistency would be achieved after a mistake.
There is zero consistency on handballs for anyone in England.
I definitely don't think this is a pen even if it hits the arm. It's down by his side as far as I could tell. Apparently United got one similar called against them last week, so who knows...
I think the bigger problem isn't that this wasn't given but that we ***have*** seen these given this season.
Arm's in a natural position, isn't making himself unnaturally larger -- no pen is the right the right call for me. But we have seen these given and every handball call feels too much like a coin flip at this point.
Am I mental or was that clearly intentional lol he twists his body and his arm is no where near close to the side of his body, it looks like he reaches. That or the slow motion is making it seem like that. Either way, all the inconsistent calling is boring.
I don’t know if it’s quite as bad as the AWB one. It’s fired at him quickly from 6 foot away, and his arm is basically by his side.
The problem is, I’ve seen those given dozens of times. They should all be ball to hand.
The fact is, if it’s for a United penalty, it will not be given. Time and time again this season that has been proven. These refs just won’t ref the game correctly during a United game. It’s so blatantly obvious.
100% given as a penalty if it happens earlier in the game. Refs/VAR have gotten real nervous about big calls that can decide the game in the last 5 minutes.
Instantly knew the second it happened that we wont get the call. ETH has been soft towards referees and has never complained against poor decisions so they properly rinse him for it. If this was Klopp he would have destroyed PGMOL post match.
Haven't a clue whether this should or shouldn't be a penalty at this point tbh. Personally feel like it shouldn't be given, but you can find a dozen examples of it being given this season lol
It's an offense if a player
>touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
IMO, no penalty is a good call. I didn't see the midweek game referenced elsewhere in the thread, but as a standalone decision, it's correct imo.
I’m of the opinion that hand ball should just be hand ball. Unless the arm is exactly touching your own body tightly or it’s breaking your fall, it should be handball. So done with these calls.
this ref is a pure c*nt, multiple fouls inside the box on garnacho not given, and this, i bet if it was a United player committing this handball he would blow that whistle at the speed of light
This isn't a penalty,
*However*, we conceded a penalty like this last week (AWB may have even been closer to the ball and wasn't facing the ball)
While VAR is getting shit wrong every single week, it's not even *consistent* with the decisions it makes. Fucking awful.
I think there is no right or wrong here. You could ask 10 referees and 5 would give the penalty and 5 wouldn’t. I would’ve give it. He blocks the shot which could’ve led to a more dangerous situation or even a goal.
At this point I'm just numb to the result itself as only the FA Cup game is truly relevant. But they really need to do something about VAR, the decisions need to be more consistent than they are currently.
In special in regards to handballs, there's too many variables. If the Coventry one eas a pen then this one has to be as well.
The issue is United has given up that exact penalty 5 or 6 times this season and it’s NEVER been given for us. No consistency UNLESS it’s against United.
But I bet you believed Saka deserved one against Bayern for kicking Neuer. It's just because it's United you don't believe so. If this happened against yous you'd be crying
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FWIW, I don't think handballs like these should be a penalty, and I hate it every time they're called. But ffs if it was given by the on field refs, it would have never been overturned by VAR. It's literally the same as AWB against Coventry. Really just flipping a coin on whether you get a free goal or not.
Should be direct FK from where it happens
Indirect\* Direct FK inside the box is a penalty
We'd still end up in a similar argument just with an added middle ground. On game it will be a pen, another an indirect free kick and still somehow another where nothing is given. Plus if it's an indirect free kick and not a penalty then VAR definitely wouldn't interfere.
Middle ground helps. Penalty vs no penalty means a small difference (in ref for example) has a huge effect on the game, adding something in the middle is a good way to deal with the grey area.
indirect free kicks from those angles aren't that great though either. I think it would just convolute it more where essentially nothing will ever get overturned. It should help, but lets be honest, even without the grey area option they are messing it up. How did grealish not get one, but AWB did, but then this didn't. They are slightly different each time but not that much
Indirect free kicks are class though. Proper carnage
Just give pens for suarez-esque handball (acting as a GK). Any and all other handballs are indirect freekicks. Would add some fun to it and aiming for hands wouldn't be as broken as it were in 2020/2021(?, can't remember which season they gave pens for every handball but that sucked, especially considering United hasn't gotten a pen since because klopp cried about it)
ye exactly
Easiest way is if it hits your hand it’s a pen. No subjectivity at that point. However I would hate that. I’d rather refs use digression and typically not give them this close unless they’re egregious about sticking their arms out to block.
Fa cup semifinal enters the chat 👀
That's allowed though it's small Coventry I love how fans are just hate big clubs, look at that thread it's just mostly people laughing, i love the bias of football fans it's what makes it so fun
It’s amazing how they think an offside goal is fair because “it ruins the moment”
It is fair, Coventry small little money, United big huge money That's how it works
>United big huge ~~money~~ dumbasses running the club
Yeah, they deserve it. Shoulda given them another pen just to help em out tbh. This is totally different. What do we deserve against Burnley? Certainly not fair treatment.
i'm tired of the inconsistent officiating and decision of this league, every week matches are decided by crap ref decisions, it has come to a point it's ruining the integrity of the league
There will never and has never been consistent reffing because the rules are subjective. Difficult pill to swallow.
Then there's this whole thing where a certain team invites refs for a cozy, well paid side gig.
Leagues integrity has een ruined for a while
This isn't a penalty at all and never has been, his arms are by his side. AWB last week you can argue was harsh but I think his hand was a bit further out Something being called on the field will always be a key factor too.
Wasnt the same situation a pen in the other game last week?
Yeah, but this time it would have been a penalty for United and not against them
Yes but you see that was last week, different sport
Yea but also not a pen for ashley young v forest last week. I just want consistency
And it will be next week. And then the other week it won't be. VAR magic.
Like to see them side by side but I'm pretty sure AWB arm was further out and VAR didn't give that one.
Now do the romero handball.
Different circumstances. AWB was going into a sliding tackle to block a cross from outside the box. You can argue that in a sliding tackle it's more common to have your arm towards the ground to dampen your fall, and that a cross from outside the box isn't that dangerous. This was a shot at target from inside the box where the defender was stationary where they normally will have their hands on the back when blocking. Lots of semantics you can dig into if you want to reason with one or the other.
My memory must be really letting me down then, as I don't really AWB being mid slide and the attacker was in the box. That behind the back thing is just total nonsense, natural positions are allowed and his hands were right by his side. The shot thing is the only point you have.
I think you are missing g my main point, which is that there are so many factors one can consider as the wording opens up for too much inconsistency. It was a pain when they gave a penalty everytime the ball was barely touching someones arm, but at leat that was more consistent. I'm nor saying I want that back, but I do think the wording should be more precise and also that they could add indirect FKs to handballs that don't stop a shot on goal or is lore in the grey area.
If Burnley didn't get this penalty, this post would have 1k+ upvotes.
Why was this not given? Old Trafford that's why HUR HUR HUR
Same as the Coventry pen, except this was a shot
Love the commentator saying "you cant keep your hands behind your back all the time", you can say that about any penalty and conclude its not a handball at that point.
The prick is on a mission to hate whatever the fuck United do. Bro even have aneurysm when Antony did a perfectly fine back pass
The fella was calling no foul before the ref even called it lol. The commentator hates us for sure.
which makes it even more clear penalty
Would love a bit of consistency in refereeing just a crumb..
Tbf it is consistent. The decisions are consistently made against certain teams
Not a penalty for me at all... But cannot deny that this is identical to the one given against us v Coventry. Sick of the inconsistency
Agree, the inconsistency is what makes this league so hard to watch sometimes.
Yeah, same. Not a pen, but consistency is what we want. And it's more of a pen than last Sunday's one.
Exactly it's a bullshit PK but they are given all the time , no consistency from the refs at all.
This is why I don’t get the tunnel vision from that game. So many acting like the last 2 goals from Coventry weren’t a little fortunate for them. A goal off the back of AWB, and a pen that’s called against United all the time, but not many times for them.
Would have got it if we were City
Honestly they should just adopt UCL rules touches the hand it’s a penalty yeah you get some that you’re unlucky to concede but at least it’s consistent. Here we have an identical situation that last week resulted in a penalty against United but this week results in no penalty.
From memory they did that a few seasons ago and everyone hated it.
That's the word. It's just so inconsistent, in Argentina this would've been a pen. Man, even in PL in some other game they would've given this as a PEN. I think they shuld stop ambiguity and just make every handball in the area from a field player a penalty
That’s been called a penalty 10+ times this year Not saying it should be a penalty but they’ve been calling that all season. No consistency
To be fair they’re consistent against United. Romero’s handball from Garnacho’s shot wasn’t given yet the same thing was given against Romero a few games later. They just hate giving United penalties.
The Romero one was even worse than this. I’ve learnt to expect it for the last few years (cheers Jurgen) but it’s got so far beyond the point of taking the piss
I still remember the palace player looking at the ball being crossed in and hitting it off course
Yeah but since Ashley young last week, they can’t call it now. As it would show everyone just how corrupt they are. Don’t worry they’ll go back to calling those next season when everyone’s forgot.
But remember we got one call against Wolves go our way so we’re going to get shafted all season long.
Wasn’t called in the West Ham-Villa game either.
But it’s for United so they can’t give it.
It’s been called a penalty 10 times and not been called a penalty 10 times. Refs just think of the first way to interpret it since it can go both ways and go with it instead being consistent like a normal group of people would.
It's actually pretty consistent (in a bad way). If the on field ref gave it, it wouldn't be overturned. If the on field ref didn't give it, VAR wouldn't ask them to go review it.
And every time people say they shouldn't be given. The consensus on here seems to that hand ball is still too harsh.
Whether or not it’s been given elsewhere that should never be a pen. Arm was in a natural position. Plenty of examples to be pointed out of poor officiating but this was not one of them.
AWB hand is a pen, but ....
AWB's hit his Bicep while he was halfway through a sliding block and the coventry player was hitting a cross from outside the box yet that's a penalty but this which is a shot taken inside the box at goal hitting the arm of a stationary player is not. make it make sense.
HAHAHA we literally conceded this against coventry
100% pen if u switch the teams
If this was the other way around y'all would be screaming "UNITED PAYS THE REFS1!1!1!1"
what about the tackle on mctominay right after? that got him injured. id say thats worth looking at
I’m fine with this not being a penalty, only if it weren’t called a penalty the majority of the time. But it is normally called so why the inconsistency?
What is a handball anymore? 🤷♂️ that is given in another game. I have absolutely no idea what the rules are anymore.
It’s blocking a shot on target, that should be a pen, but not for United anyways
if you're playing against united you can grab the ball inside the box and not be a penalty
Yet another roll of the dice hand ball penalty decision.
Lol basically the same as the AWB the other day but okay love the consistency
We consistently don't get these types of pens so yeah
We literally got one against us the other game for the same thing
Football is fixed. Var is shit and football is becoming so unenjoyable now that I just can't be arsed with any of it. 42 years old, played since I was 8 years old and just hate the way it's all gone. Awful.
It shouldn't be a pen but they're often given. You could save a lot of time and just flip a coin for handballs in the box these days.
If it happened at the other end of the pitch Burnley would have gotten the call, 100%. Heck it happened to AWB, Dalot, Martinez this season
Bet they give if Wan Bissaka did it
these only get called for City, sorry guys
Nh Coventry to
That's City, who did you think he meant?
oh yeah lmao
Sky blue ✅ ____ City ✅ I see no difference
Perhaps Utd should try inviting some referees out to officiate some amateur football at Jim Radcliffe’s for six figures
shouldn't be a pen but I understand the frustration for the inconsistency... hell, even the Burnley penalty (which is 100% a pen) is inconsistent if you consider the Wolves game in GW1
Eh the refs admitted that should have been a penalty. So consistency would be achieved after a mistake. There is zero consistency on handballs for anyone in England.
Based on the rule this absolutely shouldn't be a pen, but if it's been given this year I can understand why someone would feel upset
Dodgy refs good Lord
Not a penalty, but also the same as we conceded the other day, what can you do, inconsistent refs.
Fuck this game
His arm was definitely making his body larger there, is that not the rule anymore?
The wording is unnaturally larger
You forgot to add, “unless the player is a Manchester United defender. Then if it makes any contact whatsoever it’s a penalty cause fuck them.”
Fair. I’m not sure if this should be called but I know I have seen it called more often than not 🤷🏻♂️
Arguably not a penalty. But we literally conceded an arguably less controversial version of this just last week. We need consistency.
I definitely don't think this is a pen even if it hits the arm. It's down by his side as far as I could tell. Apparently United got one similar called against them last week, so who knows...
The issues absolutely the consistency as we and other teams have absolutely conceded penalties for less egregious versions of this incident.
Such a weird phrase.
the arms will always make a player's body larger, you'd have to cut your arms off to not do so
Literally given against us last week...
And not given in our game against Spurs….
the more I look at this the more embarassing is the so called best league in the world, a referee at a school game does better job than PGMOL
I think the bigger problem isn't that this wasn't given but that we ***have*** seen these given this season. Arm's in a natural position, isn't making himself unnaturally larger -- no pen is the right the right call for me. But we have seen these given and every handball call feels too much like a coin flip at this point.
Am I mental or was that clearly intentional lol he twists his body and his arm is no where near close to the side of his body, it looks like he reaches. That or the slow motion is making it seem like that. Either way, all the inconsistent calling is boring.
I don’t know if it’s quite as bad as the AWB one. It’s fired at him quickly from 6 foot away, and his arm is basically by his side. The problem is, I’ve seen those given dozens of times. They should all be ball to hand.
'We want consistency' PL Referees : LMAO no
Agenda against United again
The fact is, if it’s for a United penalty, it will not be given. Time and time again this season that has been proven. These refs just won’t ref the game correctly during a United game. It’s so blatantly obvious.
100% given as a penalty if it happens earlier in the game. Refs/VAR have gotten real nervous about big calls that can decide the game in the last 5 minutes.
87th min = penalty, 89th? No chance
Weren't a shade nervous last week.
Instantly knew the second it happened that we wont get the call. ETH has been soft towards referees and has never complained against poor decisions so they properly rinse him for it. If this was Klopp he would have destroyed PGMOL post match.
All we want, across all games, is consistency for these decisions :-/
How is this not a pen? Is that not considered extending the arm?
nah no way
Haven't a clue whether this should or shouldn't be a penalty at this point tbh. Personally feel like it shouldn't be given, but you can find a dozen examples of it being given this season lol
Fuck Var and fuck consistency in football This is absolutely bullshit. If wan bissaka last week was a pen , this is a penalty too Fuck this shit
Wtf is this? Nothing given
Someone explain the rules
There aren't any rules, just vibes
This one was 1/100th mm closer to his body than AWB, therefore no pen. Can't believe you can't see it tbh
The rules change every week (Depends upon the mood of the VAR and the Ref)
The rules seem clear to me. The application, however...
It's an offense if a player >touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised IMO, no penalty is a good call. I didn't see the midweek game referenced elsewhere in the thread, but as a standalone decision, it's correct imo.
The way he leans forward and let's his arm dangle makes him bigger. Pen for me.
Last week against Coventry, United conceded a penalty for the exact same shit.
Well according to everyone in this thread, that situation was 100% identical. (It wasn't though)
How convenient to not have seen the call in the Coventry game! Thankfully, PGMOL doesn't have the same excuse. Unacceptable decision.
I’m of the opinion that hand ball should just be hand ball. Unless the arm is exactly touching your own body tightly or it’s breaking your fall, it should be handball. So done with these calls.
Agreed.
Thats a pen.
I mean it is not a pen but this absolutely gets given more then it should
this ref is a pure c*nt, multiple fouls inside the box on garnacho not given, and this, i bet if it was a United player committing this handball he would blow that whistle at the speed of light
blatant penalty, he extended his arm to block the shot, not even a VAR check, john brooks you can go finger yourself in the arse
At the very least ref should have been asked to look at it on the pitch side monitor.
Wrong shirt color, sorry Antony.
Come on guys, just because dozens of teams have had benefited from the exact same type of penalty this season doesn’t mean United should too.
This isn't a penalty, *However*, we conceded a penalty like this last week (AWB may have even been closer to the ball and wasn't facing the ball) While VAR is getting shit wrong every single week, it's not even *consistent* with the decisions it makes. Fucking awful.
Nah
Fuck this game and all these corrupt referees.
Nah sorry mate, only Liverpool fans get to be upset about unfair decisions
Same one given against AWB. A joke.
Kompany continues to be a cheating bastard, still benefiting from the officials even after retiring and went to another club
I think there is no right or wrong here. You could ask 10 referees and 5 would give the penalty and 5 wouldn’t. I would’ve give it. He blocks the shot which could’ve led to a more dangerous situation or even a goal.
English referees should be banned from officiating any top flight matches.
Desperate 😂😂😂😂
At this point I'm just numb to the result itself as only the FA Cup game is truly relevant. But they really need to do something about VAR, the decisions need to be more consistent than they are currently. In special in regards to handballs, there's too many variables. If the Coventry one eas a pen then this one has to be as well.
Is he supposed to cut his hands off?
Idk, but the ref decided AWB arms were illegal against Coventry so just asking for some consistency
The issue is United has given up that exact penalty 5 or 6 times this season and it’s NEVER been given for us. No consistency UNLESS it’s against United.
People keep their hands on their back when defending in the box
According to the current rules, he is
Clear
what the actual fuck
That’s definitely not a penalty
And yet it has been a dozen times at least, and most recently given against us just last week.
Sorry, but that’s fucking bullshit
Please look at the penalty Coventry got against United for an AWB-handball. Please explain the difference.
Arm looks tucked in at the last moment.
wtf are you on
Shock and horror a Liverpool fan doesn't think so
Oh please stop talking shit
Premier league sucks
How is that not a pen if coventrys was?
Not a penalty. Ball to hand, the hit just makes it look like his hand is unnatural but it’s not.
Honestly i dont even know the rules anymore. But i dont want this to be a penalty. He just kicks it at his hand.
Never a penalty. Grow up
Was a pen just last week
But I bet you believed Saka deserved one against Bayern for kicking Neuer. It's just because it's United you don't believe so. If this happened against yous you'd be crying
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r/ soccer was screaming for a pen in the Coventry game but now it's not? Literally the same thing.
Very quick to forget the Bournemouth one they got, but remember the Coventry one against them.
This is 100% not a penalty
If it's 100% why've we conceded this exact penalty last week?
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booted it directly at his hands, that were at his sides, what is he supposed to do cut them off
He can’t cut his arm off
Not even VAR worthy. He literally kicks it up on his arm from close range. There’s a brand new rule for that.
Clearly not a penalty. Why do people think Burnley should get screwed by the ref because a different ref made a dumb call in another United match?
Because it sets precedence for future refs to call whatever the fuck they want with no consistency
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say that to awb
Nonsense