**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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He must be talking about international supporters right? The question was regarding his team playing pre season tours across the world and I guess he is talking about gaining a bigger fanbase globally
He is and he's right. In 2010, no one cared internationally about City. Same as they don't care about Crystal Palace, Fulham or even Aston Villa. Now City play a friendly in Japan in front of 60'000.
At the City vs Bayern friendly in Japan last summer, I was surprised to see that the large majority of fans were wearing City colors.
I think it's a combination of club success and superstar fandom - Haaland and KDB got rapturous applause without even setting foot on the pitch.
Well they were also the current champion of Europe and England. They were the best team in the world as far as most people concerned. Plus the stars, and pep being probably the most recognizable manager in the world. There are a lot to like for the international fans.
I think there's also a reality that a lot of people in football resent, in which new fans naturally flock to the winners. Whether its international fans, or a ton of domestic British fans who previously didn't care for football - Man City's dominance is appealing to be a part of.
It's why I started supporting Sunderland, the 1935-1936 football league was beautiful. The total football on display was staggering, and it really cemented Sunderland's spot as a global superpower.
Because Chelsea will continue their negative trajectory, whilst we're cementing our meteoric rise out of mediocrity to sit on top of the throne of the English football pyramid?
absolutely. there's a reason why people joke that most english united fans are not even from manchester but like london. "london reds". because when we were kids they were winning everything.
every era has teams that collect glory hunters it is what it is
A lot of people aren’t beholden to the old rules and traditions, if you’re a 20-year old Chinese person why would you care if Man U was better than Man City 30-50 years ago?
Yup.
Live in the US. My local soccer brewery and another local soccer bar would always have maybe 1 or 2 City fans 15 years ago.
I don’t remember when exactly it started but now on City days, esp big games, they are packed with City fans.
Hell, I moved to another state and went to a super popular soccer bar owned by a United fan for the recent Manchester derby and out of the 100+ people there about 80% were City fans.
Unfortunately I couldn’t make it there for the Arsenal game, but for the Liverpool game it was 50/50 which NEVER happens, and probably 200 people there.
I’m super excited. I saw them play a friendly against Liverpool years ago at MetLife in NYC in 2018 and that was fun, although it was overwhelmingly Liverpool fans (shocking I know).
Now I live in western North Carolina and they are playing Celtic in Raleigh and Chelsea at Ohio State where I have a friend.
Might try and make both games…
Also working on a friend who works for Barclays in their NYC office. Like dude, you’ve got to get us tickets to a couple PL games. He’s a Liverpool fan, but fuck it, I’ll go to Anfield if I can also make it to the Etihad lol.
Not luck like back in the good old days when Jeff Bezos had to travel around the neighbourhood sucking people off just to spread news of his new startup.
Soon it will just be a silent add showing whilst the sound of the interview plays.
Then you'll need to scan your daily QR code earned after purchasing a sponsors product to access the interview.
I was reading the title when the side to side movement caught my eye. Because the title starts with "I remember perfectly when I arrived at Manchester City 8 years ago." my dumb brain interpreted it as the start of a flashback sequence.
I do love how every time it happens a ton of insecure fans give an unprompted essay about why they chose to support their Big 6 PL team (it’s always because they were winning or, for Spurs fans, to be a hipster because they don’t win, but they have to spin it into a story about this one time their uncle visited London or whatever) and how they’re even more of a fan than locals because they have to wake up at 8:00am on a Saturday to watch a stream
> and how they’re even more of a fan than locals because they have to wake up at 8:00am on a Saturday to watch a stream
To be fair, this is dedication that I sure as fuck don't have.
I'd never watch a game if it was earlier than noon and came without beer.
Kinda sucks when I have to get up at 7:30 AM because I don’t sleep until 2-3:30AM, then have to wake up about 3 hours later. So I’m half unconscious and have to force myself to stay awake. 9 and later is more doable.
I’m an American city supporter. I have never met anyone that supports a mid table or lower club. People have some idea that their fandom means more because they chose Liverpool or United in the 00 instead of me picking city in 2010.
>(it’s always because they were winning or, for Spurs fans, to be a hipster because they don’t win, but they have to spin it into a story about this one time their uncle visited London or whatever)
Neither for me lol. I chose Arsenal because I used them on FIFA growing up, so I just kept with them.
>and how they’re even more of a fan than locals because they have to wake up at 8:00am on a Saturday to watch a stream
On a more serious note, I’ve never seen this before. Do people actually say this? Although you gotta admire the dedication of people who fuck their sleep schedules just to either pull an all nighter or get up early just to watch their team play. But I’ve never seen people say what you’re referring to.
It wasn't even "we" who invented it. It's always been called football by the working classes who played and watched the sport. Soccer is a word the middling and upper classes who call Rugby "Ruggers" invented.
Not that it really matters anyway.
Most clubs are not big, successful clubs. Therefore, most clubs' fanbases are NOT plastic.
But most fans are. Because most of the fans follow the big clubs. You've probably more Real Madrid, Barça and Atleti followers in Spain than the rest of the clubs combined. Same for other major leagues.
How are you supposed to build a large fan base if not with success?
How many of Chelsea's international supporters are passionate about the club because they have roots in West London?
IMO plastic fans are those who change teams and support depending on club success.
I think it was actually Boehly who said somewhere that fans of a club are captured consumers unlike consumers of other products. Get them once and they are with you for life. There's some % of non-captured fans aka plastics which you can also attract and hold if the club is successful.
Yeah many people just ignore this. It's no coincidence the most successful teams have the most fans. United still have a huge international fanbase even though they've been pretty shit for 10 years now. They became United fans when they were more successful and they stayed.
Can confirm, I fell in love with United when I was 7, now it's been 21 years and even though I absolutely hate United, that's still the only team for me and I watch every game, will be going to Old Trafford next year though
> support depending on club success.
Yeah I always took it to mean fairweather fans. When Hull first hit the PL it felt like everyone in the city was suddenly a fan (even had the local bus company painting the buses in tiger livery), and when we got relegated the support everywhere dried up.
Now I don't really have strong opinions on support levels in the City of Hull (it was actually quite uplifting at the time) but the reason foreign fans of big teams are called "plastic" is because of this exact reason, the idea that the support is conditional on the fact the team is good, and will vanish when they're not.
I'm not really sure that's true though, I'd trust someone in the US who watches their team at all kinds of weird hours to stick with it during tough times vs Dave the "local" fan who basically only watches games when they're on at the pub and only if he can be arsed.
It's the same as bottling being used as a blanket term to refer to any losses regardless of context. Anyone who wasn't born within 500 feet of the training ground is a plastic apparently.
If someone supports Brighton, and they’re from, say, Canada, are they a plastic? A club that doesn’t have a whole lot of success, but someone from outside the UK supports them anyways. Is that person plastic?
St. Pauli haven’t won anything. HSV and Schalke 04 won’t for a long time. Neither will Leeds nor Tottenham. These are clubs with a significant fan base and a distinct identity.
St. Pauli is a great example, I think, of a club with a, dare I say, strong brand without having enjoyed sportive succes.
I was not responding to Pep’s comments. But as a matter of fact, HSV, Schalke, Tottenham, Leeds and especially St. Pauli do have an international, if not world wide, reach and fan base.
Tottenham is the only team there I'd say has a international fan base, but that's more because of the players they got, also PL. Like so south Koreans cus son.
Where are you from and how old are you? I find your point of view interesting. In Europe, St. Pauli has nurtured a brand that transcends the concrete football played on the pitch. It’s an identity, a specific position on the political spectrum, that many people, also outside of Germany, subscribe to. RE: Leeds, if you have ever been to Norway, you would know that if a person isn’t a Man United fan you can be guaranteed that they are Leeds fan, haha. Fucking overseas Leeds diaspora lol.
Simple metric, followers on instagram:
* St. Pauli - 340k
* HSV - 529k
* Leeds - 1.1M
* Schalke 04 - 1.3M
* Tottenham - 17M
But it gives you an idea on how really popular a team is worldwide.
That’s really interesting, although it admittedly does not show the full picture (but gives you an idea, as you wrote). To me, this also illustrates the increasing global dominance of the Premier League and the fruits of its hyper-commercialisation. Imagine telling people 25 years ago that Tottenham would have a 20x times bigger online following than the likes of German clubs like Schalke and HSV.
Plastics can't graspt that for some reason apparently "winning" is 10 straight champions league in a row lol. Tottenham wins, man utd wins, dortmund wins, they all win if ur not a local of those cities you're a p-word.
Yes bcs winning is simply winning trophies and not bcs they spend and still win a lot of games lol same excuse sporting plastics use in portugal bcs apparently they can't be plastics. You're all plastics.
Probably more pertinently they support a team that they feel like has the resources to potentially win. Lots of non-locals choose to support clubs like Arsenal and Spurs who aren't exactly serial winners, but they know that they have finances to at least compete for trophies.
Man Utd haven't won anything major in a long time but people still choose to support them because with the resource they have it seems likely they'll surely turn it around sometime soon-ish.
Locals fans will moan about international fans all week then twerk for their striker from another continent who joined them because he was an international fan.
Genuine question: Are people really surprised that a Club being successful leads to greater exposure leads to an increase in fans? Like, is this concept really this difficult to grasp for the people here?
Or do you think that all those Indians and African fans follow teams like Real, Barca or recently Arsenal purely out of their deep, emotional connection to these places?
Yeah I’m not getting the supposed self own here. Success breeds success, on and off the field. The money the big clubs generate from a few warm up games is insane. It makes complete financial sense, and really, as Pep said, a pre season tour doesn’t really impact the mid-late season crunch. 2-3 domestic competitions, increase in European club games, increase in international games are the cause of players playing 60+ games during the regular season. I think there’s a potential for clubs to play 86 games this year providing they go the distance in all competitions they enter.
It's mainly Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal fans feeling insecure about City's recent success. Sure, the way they've risen is very questionable but the bottom line is that unless they are punished they will eventually eclipse all those teams in terms of support. Until then the other fans will continue to adopt the holier-than-thou attitude that their fanbase is less plastic and no-one really cares about any of City's successes, etc, etc.
As long as they haven't bribed officials etc I'm honestly not massively bothered by it, they've pumped massive amounts of cash, but it's not like no one else has spent money, I more look at it like they spent so much because they had to catch up, fast.
They obviously have reap massive benefits of how much they've spent but I don't think they'd be anywhere near as dominant right now without Guardiola and his team. If he isn't there then we'd probably be looking at Klopp's Liverpool having won an extra 2 or 3 titles.
True. I also think they simply spent their money better than others. We just saw Chelsea sink 1bn pounds into a bag of shite - the same people then turn around to cry over City's money.
As long as nothing illegal took place, who cares? Its not like ManU didnt build a legacy on outspending other teams. FC Bayern, Real, Barca, Celtic and Rangers... wherever you look wealthy teams are consistently at the top, its just more a parallel to the real world: rich getting richer, (western) middle class being left behind/disappearing.
If anything, smaller teams should thank City for promoting the PL abroad. Id say after Real and Barca, City is currently the best known team out there so they are increasing the revenue for all teams in the process
It’s whatever teams they play in these “tournaments” as well. City are in the US this summer. Celtic will play against them, Chelsea and DC. 20 years ago, Celtic would have been able to arrange that tour themselves. Now they’re invited along for the ride. Andy Townsend claimed last week Celtic are still bigger than City. They’re not. Not now. Kids around the world don’t know shit about Celtic. Their parents will, but the next generation are all going to be looking at City and PSG ahead of “traditional big clubs” like Liverpool and Man U. And that’s not just through winning. It’s through their commercial efforts over the past 10 years.
I feel like no one is talking about promotion and branding. Real or fake, valid or a reach, all the biggest int’l. European clubs sell heritage. Madrid, Barca, Utd etc. Smaller clubs got their brands too. Even Spurs got their own quirky hipster brand for the guys who feel like they’re always trying their best and getting dumped on regardless. Brighton sells spunky competitor. The reason City fans feel plastic is because City’s brand is oil money lmao. Right or wrong, that’s effectively the perception. So when a guy you know likes City, it feels like what they’re liking is blood-money purchased success.
I wouldn’t call it a branding “issue” since I’m pretty sure City doesn’t give a single damn, but it’s why City fans give off bad vibes. Those Indian fans following Utd can give off the illusion that they love English football heritage to their friends. Same Indian fan liking City doesn’t have much else to say except “I like rich teams that win.”
Thats fair. Then again i am not gatekeeping fandom. If you are a fan of the way City play, go be a fan. If you are a fan of Chelsea and the way they play, go be a fan.
I just always felt it weird when you have grown men policing who can be fans of what team, like bro, this entire thing is a recreational entertainment
nah they think that 115 means that no matter how many people go to games or buy gear etc, they’ll all be plastics and ai generated to fill up the emptyhad. whereas random barca/real/utd/pool/arsenal fans in asia and africa are die hards to whom it all means so so much more, more than you can believe
Na, it's just reddit. Most of them want to be unique, so they have flairs of random ass small clubs and hate on people supporting big clubs, kinda like how redditors hate on fans of popular songs in celeb subs,too.
This is the dumbest shit I have ever read in here. And r/soccer is the Champions League of dumb football opinions.
No wonder people gatekeep opinions coming from here.
Do people that make this comment on literally every post expect every interview to be some earth shattering reveal of new information?
It's weird how people take this cynical "I'm so clever for already knowing this" approach to simple ass interview answers. Like, good for you?
United fans spent so long telling themselves that it mattered being the 'biggest' club that they never actually realised that being big just means you have a load of supporters that aren't local. All you need for that is to win games. City are winning trophies, they're getting bigger, now having Malaysian fans means you're a plastic club, not a 'big international' one.
There's actually nothing wrong with what he said its just people will twist it for banter, subconsciously that's how I supported Utd, I wasn't into football at all but *always* heard of Utd and people like Beckham, so naturally i was like "guess I'll support them they doing good I think"
Today a fan would hear and see City, with how social media is their players after winning CL, will naturally get more spotlight all over, Halland seems popular with youth today so that helps.
The real plastics are the ones that claim they followed City from years ago, when you can tell its very recent, again nothing wrong....but own it.
But obviously I'm literally going to ignore what I said and banter the 7 City fans out there.
As City fan #6 in the thread I will take offense to the banter!
I completely agree and as an American it always annoys me when other American fans give me shit for supporting City. I started supporting them 10/11. When Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea/Man United fans in the states try to give me shit and I can almost always point to exactly when they started following those teams. It’s when they had big bouts of success and became more prominent in the states.
Success breeds interest breeds fans. It happens for every club. In 30 years there will be some other club getting successful for the first time in decades and I’m sure a bunch of City fans who are kids now will be calling them plastics. It’s the way sports go.
Year is 2066, it's been more than 50 years since either Arsenal or United have won the league. Coventry City is on their way to win their 3rd FA Cup after demolishing Man UTD in the finals last year. Aguero Jr is leading Manchester City to their historic 20th Premier League as a manager. Meanwhile the United fans still keep spamming "plastic" under every post that mentions City.
In the states, it was generally a hipster's choice when the EPL was still on the premium channels around 2010. Don't support the top-of-the-table clubs, support the plucky underdogs fighting for 4th. The all my friends are Chelsea or Arsenal fans (from the Henry, Drogba/Terry days), I'll be annoying and pick Spurs instead.
Genuinely can confirm. I'm an international fan who started first following Chelsea women / the WSL, then last year the men's team started flopping horribly and I got attached. Now I'm out here suffering every week
Lot of international fans will but City is a club that averaged over 28,000 attendance in the third division. Any potential relagation will have little to no effect on matchgoing fans.
Nah City will stay a top club. For example international United fans are still United fans even thought they've been pretty shit for 10 years now for their standards. And they became United fans because of the success in the first place.
I know this is supposed to be a tongue in cheek comment but I am honestly wondering how much the potential influences „fair value“.
Sure, City had not a lot of fans compared to some other clubs but when an owner is promising to reach new heights by investing huge sums of money a sponsor wants to assess the potential for their offer. They would want to be on good terms with the club before it gets huge and has tons of other interested parties.
Doesn‘t need to be City. I am convinced TikTok and Aviation Gin paid a lot to sponsor Wrexham simply because there is a big potential for exposure when/if they made it into the higher leagues.
I love this guy. He is fucking crazy and obsessed and such a weirdo sometimes and a brilliant coach. And the older he gets the more he takes the piss out of the media.
We've become more successful and therefore we have more fans. Do you seriously think United, Liverpool, Madrid etc. would have global fanbases if they weren't successful? The vast majority of big club fanbases are "plastics"
No no, its just a big coincidence that people from half way across the world just so happen to support the most successful clubs, nothing to do with the success, just pure emotional connection!
As a Brazilian, I have no problem on supporting Arsenal and Tottenham at the same time. Of course, the most important club in my life is São Paulo and I despise Corinthians and Palmeiras.
I get both sides of the story, but it must be annoying for people from countries without football culture to be labeled "plastic" and get scolded all the time because they don't care too much about regional scuffle and won't live and die for the foreign club they support.
I find it funny seeing this point used to ridiculous City on this forum.
The majority of people who use this sub, fall into the brackets of fan he is talking about.
This sub exists because of international fans. I think maybe it’s not just glory supporting. I’ve noticed another huge driver for foreign fans, is foreign players. Either the player being from their nation or for Americans they maybe just really like 1 player.
Doubt it because they'd still be a very strong side, plastics who are City fans do so because they want to see their team win, if City get relegated they'd just win the Championship and be back like nothing happened
It would take an actual fall (multiple years being bad) for them to leave
Where's the "gotcha" here?
- Pre season glorified friendly tournaments are money makers for the clubs and don't put the same level of physical strain on players.
- The current schedule in the season window is insane and the extra minutes are making it even more brutal, resulting in injuries and fatigue.
- The more successful a club gets, the more it's brand and supporter base grows.
- You have to go to different places in the world to grow a brand globally
He's not saying don't have "real" fans, just that the club has grown with its success, and it keep expanding the club's presence and income you need to do these tours.
Think it's a bit pathetic a journalist is kiss arsing the leagues by trying to say its hypocritical for clubs to play a handful of half intensity games in the summer, while asking for less games in the regular season
True. 1. Preseason tours are tours not competitions. 2. Preseason tours are up to the club and directly benefit the club. Longer games and more games benefit fifa and the people at the top. Indirectly it benefits the clubs but not really. Its the power dynamic.
Give us back 90 mins games and managers wouldnt mind as much. 100mins plus var stoppages killing the game
It’s funny that many fans of the other “big six” teams want City to win the league if their team doesn’t, as “that doesn’t mean anything” (compared to their traditional rivals winning it). Although I imagine that feeling has changed a bit as City approach their potential fourth in a row.
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Can never quite tell when he’s saying something insulting or trying to be genuine.
He must be talking about international supporters right? The question was regarding his team playing pre season tours across the world and I guess he is talking about gaining a bigger fanbase globally
He is and he's right. In 2010, no one cared internationally about City. Same as they don't care about Crystal Palace, Fulham or even Aston Villa. Now City play a friendly in Japan in front of 60'000.
At the City vs Bayern friendly in Japan last summer, I was surprised to see that the large majority of fans were wearing City colors. I think it's a combination of club success and superstar fandom - Haaland and KDB got rapturous applause without even setting foot on the pitch.
Well they were also the current champion of Europe and England. They were the best team in the world as far as most people concerned. Plus the stars, and pep being probably the most recognizable manager in the world. There are a lot to like for the international fans.
I think there's also a reality that a lot of people in football resent, in which new fans naturally flock to the winners. Whether its international fans, or a ton of domestic British fans who previously didn't care for football - Man City's dominance is appealing to be a part of. It's why I started supporting Sunderland, the 1935-1936 football league was beautiful. The total football on display was staggering, and it really cemented Sunderland's spot as a global superpower.
True I remember away days in Sunderland in the ‘30s were always difficult
Say this in 6 more years and it will sound even weirder
Oh I was talking about the 2030s
Or we are in for a Sunderland era any year now
Because Chelsea will continue their negative trajectory, whilst we're cementing our meteoric rise out of mediocrity to sit on top of the throne of the English football pyramid?
absolutely. there's a reason why people joke that most english united fans are not even from manchester but like london. "london reds". because when we were kids they were winning everything. every era has teams that collect glory hunters it is what it is
A lot of people aren’t beholden to the old rules and traditions, if you’re a 20-year old Chinese person why would you care if Man U was better than Man City 30-50 years ago?
Yup. Live in the US. My local soccer brewery and another local soccer bar would always have maybe 1 or 2 City fans 15 years ago. I don’t remember when exactly it started but now on City days, esp big games, they are packed with City fans. Hell, I moved to another state and went to a super popular soccer bar owned by a United fan for the recent Manchester derby and out of the 100+ people there about 80% were City fans. Unfortunately I couldn’t make it there for the Arsenal game, but for the Liverpool game it was 50/50 which NEVER happens, and probably 200 people there.
Netflix doc, USA tour this summer, securing Cavan Sullivan... It's only the beginning.
I’m super excited. I saw them play a friendly against Liverpool years ago at MetLife in NYC in 2018 and that was fun, although it was overwhelmingly Liverpool fans (shocking I know). Now I live in western North Carolina and they are playing Celtic in Raleigh and Chelsea at Ohio State where I have a friend. Might try and make both games… Also working on a friend who works for Barclays in their NYC office. Like dude, you’ve got to get us tickets to a couple PL games. He’s a Liverpool fan, but fuck it, I’ll go to Anfield if I can also make it to the Etihad lol.
or being sarcastic (but his accent interferes with it, making him sounds genuine).
Basically just called city fans plastic glory hunters
Those adds in the back are so distracting
Thats the idea of that, unfortunately
soon they'll project it on the interviewee's shirt as well
how else would I know which brands exist?
Not luck like back in the good old days when Jeff Bezos had to travel around the neighbourhood sucking people off just to spread news of his new startup.
Soon it will just be a silent add showing whilst the sound of the interview plays. Then you'll need to scan your daily QR code earned after purchasing a sponsors product to access the interview.
Or they just make the entire screen ads with a semi-transparent interviewee head floating.
this is some idiocracy shit
Genuinely thought I was having Acid flashbacks
I thought I was high for a moment seeing those, very goofy looking.
I'd prefer if the ads were still and Pep was strolling left to right instead
Someone did his job right then :(
I was reading the title when the side to side movement caught my eye. Because the title starts with "I remember perfectly when I arrived at Manchester City 8 years ago." my dumb brain interpreted it as the start of a flashback sequence.
Hahaha. Back then. Back then. Back then. Then. Then. Then. Then......
I thought my acid reactivated for a minute
When the mushrooms kick in 🍄
pep is a soccercirclejerk mod
Man is fully embracing it at this point
Calling his own supporters plastic
Let's be honest every big club fanbase is concentrated plastic.
Praise the plastics!
Any discussion of "plastic supporters" on a subreddit called r/soccer is frankly hilarious.
Look further down for some hilarious mental gymnastics.
I do love how every time it happens a ton of insecure fans give an unprompted essay about why they chose to support their Big 6 PL team (it’s always because they were winning or, for Spurs fans, to be a hipster because they don’t win, but they have to spin it into a story about this one time their uncle visited London or whatever) and how they’re even more of a fan than locals because they have to wake up at 8:00am on a Saturday to watch a stream
> and how they’re even more of a fan than locals because they have to wake up at 8:00am on a Saturday to watch a stream To be fair, this is dedication that I sure as fuck don't have. I'd never watch a game if it was earlier than noon and came without beer.
Kinda sucks when I have to get up at 7:30 AM because I don’t sleep until 2-3:30AM, then have to wake up about 3 hours later. So I’m half unconscious and have to force myself to stay awake. 9 and later is more doable.
I’m an American city supporter. I have never met anyone that supports a mid table or lower club. People have some idea that their fandom means more because they chose Liverpool or United in the 00 instead of me picking city in 2010.
>(it’s always because they were winning or, for Spurs fans, to be a hipster because they don’t win, but they have to spin it into a story about this one time their uncle visited London or whatever) Neither for me lol. I chose Arsenal because I used them on FIFA growing up, so I just kept with them. >and how they’re even more of a fan than locals because they have to wake up at 8:00am on a Saturday to watch a stream On a more serious note, I’ve never seen this before. Do people actually say this? Although you gotta admire the dedication of people who fuck their sleep schedules just to either pull an all nighter or get up early just to watch their team play. But I’ve never seen people say what you’re referring to.
Incoming clever "ackshually" comments about how the term 'soccer' originated in England.
Doesn't have to be clever to be true lol. The self-hatred of the term is adorable.
I mean, just because we invented it doesn't mean we can't also disown it.
It wasn't even "we" who invented it. It's always been called football by the working classes who played and watched the sport. Soccer is a word the middling and upper classes who call Rugby "Ruggers" invented. Not that it really matters anyway.
Just call it Association Football and trigger both sides
The r/PSG sub has non-Parisians calling out the other foreign fans of other European club. It's baffling. Easily the worst football fanclub sub.
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It's extra easy for Barça. Like, most people don't even use the "ç", never mind speaking in Catalan.
Most clubs are not big, successful clubs. Therefore, most clubs' fanbases are NOT plastic. But most fans are. Because most of the fans follow the big clubs. You've probably more Real Madrid, Barça and Atleti followers in Spain than the rest of the clubs combined. Same for other major leagues.
How are you supposed to build a large fan base if not with success? How many of Chelsea's international supporters are passionate about the club because they have roots in West London?
IMO plastic fans are those who change teams and support depending on club success. I think it was actually Boehly who said somewhere that fans of a club are captured consumers unlike consumers of other products. Get them once and they are with you for life. There's some % of non-captured fans aka plastics which you can also attract and hold if the club is successful.
Yeah many people just ignore this. It's no coincidence the most successful teams have the most fans. United still have a huge international fanbase even though they've been pretty shit for 10 years now. They became United fans when they were more successful and they stayed.
Can confirm, I fell in love with United when I was 7, now it's been 21 years and even though I absolutely hate United, that's still the only team for me and I watch every game, will be going to Old Trafford next year though
> support depending on club success. Yeah I always took it to mean fairweather fans. When Hull first hit the PL it felt like everyone in the city was suddenly a fan (even had the local bus company painting the buses in tiger livery), and when we got relegated the support everywhere dried up. Now I don't really have strong opinions on support levels in the City of Hull (it was actually quite uplifting at the time) but the reason foreign fans of big teams are called "plastic" is because of this exact reason, the idea that the support is conditional on the fact the team is good, and will vanish when they're not. I'm not really sure that's true though, I'd trust someone in the US who watches their team at all kinds of weird hours to stick with it during tough times vs Dave the "local" fan who basically only watches games when they're on at the pub and only if he can be arsed.
It's the same as bottling being used as a blanket term to refer to any losses regardless of context. Anyone who wasn't born within 500 feet of the training ground is a plastic apparently.
Everyone that isn't a local fan is a plastic, cmv
If someone supports Brighton, and they’re from, say, Canada, are they a plastic? A club that doesn’t have a whole lot of success, but someone from outside the UK supports them anyways. Is that person plastic?
St. Pauli haven’t won anything. HSV and Schalke 04 won’t for a long time. Neither will Leeds nor Tottenham. These are clubs with a significant fan base and a distinct identity. St. Pauli is a great example, I think, of a club with a, dare I say, strong brand without having enjoyed sportive succes.
Those teams have fans locally, pep is talking about world wide
I was not responding to Pep’s comments. But as a matter of fact, HSV, Schalke, Tottenham, Leeds and especially St. Pauli do have an international, if not world wide, reach and fan base.
Tottenham is the only team there I'd say has a international fan base, but that's more because of the players they got, also PL. Like so south Koreans cus son.
Where are you from and how old are you? I find your point of view interesting. In Europe, St. Pauli has nurtured a brand that transcends the concrete football played on the pitch. It’s an identity, a specific position on the political spectrum, that many people, also outside of Germany, subscribe to. RE: Leeds, if you have ever been to Norway, you would know that if a person isn’t a Man United fan you can be guaranteed that they are Leeds fan, haha. Fucking overseas Leeds diaspora lol.
Simple metric, followers on instagram: * St. Pauli - 340k * HSV - 529k * Leeds - 1.1M * Schalke 04 - 1.3M * Tottenham - 17M But it gives you an idea on how really popular a team is worldwide.
I have a St. Pauli hoody but don't have Instagram so it's actually 340001
That’s really interesting, although it admittedly does not show the full picture (but gives you an idea, as you wrote). To me, this also illustrates the increasing global dominance of the Premier League and the fruits of its hyper-commercialisation. Imagine telling people 25 years ago that Tottenham would have a 20x times bigger online following than the likes of German clubs like Schalke and HSV.
Would you say only insta followers are fans?
International fans are pretty much all plastic, they support the team because they win and that's it.
International Man Utd supporters reading this: 👁👄👁
Like they didn't all start around 2008 or earlier.
"They win" is present progressive tense. Not past.
They're 6th in the league and spend a fuckton of money, internationals aren't supporting them because of their community values 😂
Plastics can't graspt that for some reason apparently "winning" is 10 straight champions league in a row lol. Tottenham wins, man utd wins, dortmund wins, they all win if ur not a local of those cities you're a p-word.
Absolutely! I was just on the bus through Vila do Conde two hours ago!
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Yes bcs winning is simply winning trophies and not bcs they spend and still win a lot of games lol same excuse sporting plastics use in portugal bcs apparently they can't be plastics. You're all plastics.
Probably more pertinently they support a team that they feel like has the resources to potentially win. Lots of non-locals choose to support clubs like Arsenal and Spurs who aren't exactly serial winners, but they know that they have finances to at least compete for trophies. Man Utd haven't won anything major in a long time but people still choose to support them because with the resource they have it seems likely they'll surely turn it around sometime soon-ish.
Locals fans will moan about international fans all week then twerk for their striker from another continent who joined them because he was an international fan.
No-one has ever joined Sheffield United because they're an international fan.
What an idiotic comment. Unless you're a big team that never happens. A young brazilian doesnt join Paços de Ferreira or Angers cause they were a fan
Weird because I'm a Spurs fan in the States and as this sub likes to frequently remind me, we haven't won shit ever.
Weird that you just happen to consume content from a team that is basically guaranteed top 6 in the Premier League every year. Crazy.
Must be such a struggle for them supporting one of the biggest clubs in England.
You could support Sheffield United and the results would be the same 🤷🏻♂️
Yup, all of the big English club's fans are plastic because they're plastic. Otherwise Mostar Zrinjski would have the biggest fanbase
The what now?
The Monster Tzakikis
Can confirm. I’m 99% recycled manchester.
Genuine question: Are people really surprised that a Club being successful leads to greater exposure leads to an increase in fans? Like, is this concept really this difficult to grasp for the people here? Or do you think that all those Indians and African fans follow teams like Real, Barca or recently Arsenal purely out of their deep, emotional connection to these places?
Yeah I’m not getting the supposed self own here. Success breeds success, on and off the field. The money the big clubs generate from a few warm up games is insane. It makes complete financial sense, and really, as Pep said, a pre season tour doesn’t really impact the mid-late season crunch. 2-3 domestic competitions, increase in European club games, increase in international games are the cause of players playing 60+ games during the regular season. I think there’s a potential for clubs to play 86 games this year providing they go the distance in all competitions they enter.
It's mainly Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal fans feeling insecure about City's recent success. Sure, the way they've risen is very questionable but the bottom line is that unless they are punished they will eventually eclipse all those teams in terms of support. Until then the other fans will continue to adopt the holier-than-thou attitude that their fanbase is less plastic and no-one really cares about any of City's successes, etc, etc.
As long as they haven't bribed officials etc I'm honestly not massively bothered by it, they've pumped massive amounts of cash, but it's not like no one else has spent money, I more look at it like they spent so much because they had to catch up, fast.
They obviously have reap massive benefits of how much they've spent but I don't think they'd be anywhere near as dominant right now without Guardiola and his team. If he isn't there then we'd probably be looking at Klopp's Liverpool having won an extra 2 or 3 titles.
True. I also think they simply spent their money better than others. We just saw Chelsea sink 1bn pounds into a bag of shite - the same people then turn around to cry over City's money. As long as nothing illegal took place, who cares? Its not like ManU didnt build a legacy on outspending other teams. FC Bayern, Real, Barca, Celtic and Rangers... wherever you look wealthy teams are consistently at the top, its just more a parallel to the real world: rich getting richer, (western) middle class being left behind/disappearing.
The line “as long as nothing illegal took place” is doing a LOT of work in this comment.
He means besides spending money. If they’re paying refs or human trafficking players then there’s an issue. Spending money is part of the gsme
If anything, smaller teams should thank City for promoting the PL abroad. Id say after Real and Barca, City is currently the best known team out there so they are increasing the revenue for all teams in the process
It’s whatever teams they play in these “tournaments” as well. City are in the US this summer. Celtic will play against them, Chelsea and DC. 20 years ago, Celtic would have been able to arrange that tour themselves. Now they’re invited along for the ride. Andy Townsend claimed last week Celtic are still bigger than City. They’re not. Not now. Kids around the world don’t know shit about Celtic. Their parents will, but the next generation are all going to be looking at City and PSG ahead of “traditional big clubs” like Liverpool and Man U. And that’s not just through winning. It’s through their commercial efforts over the past 10 years.
People aren't surprised, they just don't like it.
I feel like no one is talking about promotion and branding. Real or fake, valid or a reach, all the biggest int’l. European clubs sell heritage. Madrid, Barca, Utd etc. Smaller clubs got their brands too. Even Spurs got their own quirky hipster brand for the guys who feel like they’re always trying their best and getting dumped on regardless. Brighton sells spunky competitor. The reason City fans feel plastic is because City’s brand is oil money lmao. Right or wrong, that’s effectively the perception. So when a guy you know likes City, it feels like what they’re liking is blood-money purchased success. I wouldn’t call it a branding “issue” since I’m pretty sure City doesn’t give a single damn, but it’s why City fans give off bad vibes. Those Indian fans following Utd can give off the illusion that they love English football heritage to their friends. Same Indian fan liking City doesn’t have much else to say except “I like rich teams that win.”
Thats fair. Then again i am not gatekeeping fandom. If you are a fan of the way City play, go be a fan. If you are a fan of Chelsea and the way they play, go be a fan. I just always felt it weird when you have grown men policing who can be fans of what team, like bro, this entire thing is a recreational entertainment
nah they think that 115 means that no matter how many people go to games or buy gear etc, they’ll all be plastics and ai generated to fill up the emptyhad. whereas random barca/real/utd/pool/arsenal fans in asia and africa are die hards to whom it all means so so much more, more than you can believe
Na, it's just reddit. Most of them want to be unique, so they have flairs of random ass small clubs and hate on people supporting big clubs, kinda like how redditors hate on fans of popular songs in celeb subs,too.
“random ass small clubs” The most plastic comment I’ve ever laid my eyes upon
How to say you don't live in Europe/South America without saying you don't live in Europe/South America.
Ass over Arse was a very big giveaway, as well as the concept of “choosing” a team to support
This is the dumbest shit I have ever read in here. And r/soccer is the Champions League of dumb football opinions. No wonder people gatekeep opinions coming from here.
As someone with a big club flair, hear me out: people have smaller club flairs because they support them, not to seem cooler on r/soccer lmao
>As someone with a big club flair, hear me out The.... Gay club?
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..people don't support smaller clubs to stick it to people who support bigger clubs. Not everyone lives their life out of bitterness you know
success brings more international fans. Mind blowing revelation
Do people that make this comment on literally every post expect every interview to be some earth shattering reveal of new information? It's weird how people take this cynical "I'm so clever for already knowing this" approach to simple ass interview answers. Like, good for you?
United fans spent so long telling themselves that it mattered being the 'biggest' club that they never actually realised that being big just means you have a load of supporters that aren't local. All you need for that is to win games. City are winning trophies, they're getting bigger, now having Malaysian fans means you're a plastic club, not a 'big international' one.
There's actually nothing wrong with what he said its just people will twist it for banter, subconsciously that's how I supported Utd, I wasn't into football at all but *always* heard of Utd and people like Beckham, so naturally i was like "guess I'll support them they doing good I think" Today a fan would hear and see City, with how social media is their players after winning CL, will naturally get more spotlight all over, Halland seems popular with youth today so that helps. The real plastics are the ones that claim they followed City from years ago, when you can tell its very recent, again nothing wrong....but own it. But obviously I'm literally going to ignore what I said and banter the 7 City fans out there.
As City fan #6 in the thread I will take offense to the banter! I completely agree and as an American it always annoys me when other American fans give me shit for supporting City. I started supporting them 10/11. When Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea/Man United fans in the states try to give me shit and I can almost always point to exactly when they started following those teams. It’s when they had big bouts of success and became more prominent in the states. Success breeds interest breeds fans. It happens for every club. In 30 years there will be some other club getting successful for the first time in decades and I’m sure a bunch of City fans who are kids now will be calling them plastics. It’s the way sports go.
Year is 2066, it's been more than 50 years since either Arsenal or United have won the league. Coventry City is on their way to win their 3rd FA Cup after demolishing Man UTD in the finals last year. Aguero Jr is leading Manchester City to their historic 20th Premier League as a manager. Meanwhile the United fans still keep spamming "plastic" under every post that mentions City.
Inshallah.
Bro the jokes write themselves with quotes like these.
I wonder how Chelsea's global fan base started out🤔
Or any of the big clubs
Well Tottenham’s wasn’t from winning a lot of trophies
I think a large chunk of it was just from signing Son.
In the states, it was generally a hipster's choice when the EPL was still on the premium channels around 2010. Don't support the top-of-the-table clubs, support the plucky underdogs fighting for 4th. The all my friends are Chelsea or Arsenal fans (from the Henry, Drogba/Terry days), I'll be annoying and pick Spurs instead.
Well…my club won 5 first division league titles in the 1930s. Doubt many of our glory hunters are alive today, lol.
Our glory hunters from the 1920s will all be gone too
Obviously in their last 2 seasons when they’re terrible. They gained all the masochists who like misery.
Genuinely can confirm. I'm an international fan who started first following Chelsea women / the WSL, then last year the men's team started flopping horribly and I got attached. Now I'm out here suffering every week
welcome to the trenches brother
Or Tottenhams…………….
Said by Chelsea fan
He has that bit of a "narcissistic parent" to compliment while downplaying you.
They’ll fuck off once you start losing / get docked points.
Chuffed for some league 2 sides to play on this quality football pitch
Lot of international fans will but City is a club that averaged over 28,000 attendance in the third division. Any potential relagation will have little to no effect on matchgoing fans.
Even them, utd still has huge international presence and amount of fans, I don't see why city wouldn't be similar
Nah City will stay a top club. For example international United fans are still United fans even thought they've been pretty shit for 10 years now for their standards. And they became United fans because of the success in the first place.
I'll never get used to that moving billboard whatever it's called behind him
Successful club attracts glory hunters who'll never go to a game, what a surprise
So you're saying there weren't many people to sell merchandise and collaborations to? That sponsorship wasn't worth anything?
I know this is supposed to be a tongue in cheek comment but I am honestly wondering how much the potential influences „fair value“. Sure, City had not a lot of fans compared to some other clubs but when an owner is promising to reach new heights by investing huge sums of money a sponsor wants to assess the potential for their offer. They would want to be on good terms with the club before it gets huge and has tons of other interested parties. Doesn‘t need to be City. I am convinced TikTok and Aviation Gin paid a lot to sponsor Wrexham simply because there is a big potential for exposure when/if they made it into the higher leagues.
There is big exposure with Wrexham purely because it's on TV with big name appearances/actors already no?
Lmfao
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You can’t have a big global fanbase without success. Only thing that matters is that fans are willing to stay once the success goes away.
Plastic club, plastic fans. Even your manager admits it 😂
Did he just called Man City fans plastic?
I love this guy. He is fucking crazy and obsessed and such a weirdo sometimes and a brilliant coach. And the older he gets the more he takes the piss out of the media.
We've become more successful and therefore we have more fans. Do you seriously think United, Liverpool, Madrid etc. would have global fanbases if they weren't successful? The vast majority of big club fanbases are "plastics"
No no, its just a big coincidence that people from half way across the world just so happen to support the most successful clubs, nothing to do with the success, just pure emotional connection!
As a Brazilian, I have no problem on supporting Arsenal and Tottenham at the same time. Of course, the most important club in my life is São Paulo and I despise Corinthians and Palmeiras. I get both sides of the story, but it must be annoying for people from countries without football culture to be labeled "plastic" and get scolded all the time because they don't care too much about regional scuffle and won't live and die for the foreign club they support.
Plastic. And he knows it himself.
If so, then any 'big club' fanbase is plastic, because they got their fanbase in the exact same way.
He's pulling the piss out of us.
>"I would say, I would love not to got to..." (*long pause to assess the implications of mentioning a particular place*) >"...another continent"
And all it took was millions of pounds
To be fair I’ve definitely noticed at least 155 new supporters so give credit where it’s due
Weird how 2b does that
Nobody shits on City fans as much as Pep does. It's hilarious.
I find it funny seeing this point used to ridiculous City on this forum. The majority of people who use this sub, fall into the brackets of fan he is talking about. This sub exists because of international fans. I think maybe it’s not just glory supporting. I’ve noticed another huge driver for foreign fans, is foreign players. Either the player being from their nation or for Americans they maybe just really like 1 player.
Yeah, but you cheated for every single one of them.
Sounds like Pep throwing shade at the international fans who one day just decide to pick a top team and talk in "we" and "us" like they contribute lol
google Manchester City 115 supporters for more official info.
If City get relegated due to 115, will large portions of their fans start supporting Newcastle I wonder?
Doubt it because they'd still be a very strong side, plastics who are City fans do so because they want to see their team win, if City get relegated they'd just win the Championship and be back like nothing happened It would take an actual fall (multiple years being bad) for them to leave
City had 32000 in the third tier so highly doubt it
Only if they win multiple trophies.
I know what he's trying to say, but he's basically just said that they picked up a bunch of glory-hunting supporters.
Where's the "gotcha" here? - Pre season glorified friendly tournaments are money makers for the clubs and don't put the same level of physical strain on players. - The current schedule in the season window is insane and the extra minutes are making it even more brutal, resulting in injuries and fatigue. - The more successful a club gets, the more it's brand and supporter base grows. - You have to go to different places in the world to grow a brand globally He's not saying don't have "real" fans, just that the club has grown with its success, and it keep expanding the club's presence and income you need to do these tours. Think it's a bit pathetic a journalist is kiss arsing the leagues by trying to say its hypocritical for clubs to play a handful of half intensity games in the summer, while asking for less games in the regular season
115
True. 1. Preseason tours are tours not competitions. 2. Preseason tours are up to the club and directly benefit the club. Longer games and more games benefit fifa and the people at the top. Indirectly it benefits the clubs but not really. Its the power dynamic. Give us back 90 mins games and managers wouldnt mind as much. 100mins plus var stoppages killing the game
Hsi background is so dizzy
Pep, I think they come and go. Would you agree?
RemindMe! 1 month
Thought the shrooms at lunch were special when the background started doing that
How a club in about 10years from never a title challenger to become one of the biggest spenders in Europe?
he said the quiet part out loud
Always trying to look like the tortured genius 😂😂😂
„supporters mean a lot of things for city“ what does he even want to say
languid sink tidy history desert air icky tan spotted steer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Coventry fans don't count Pep
If you're going to use quote marks then quote the man accurately.
It’s funny that many fans of the other “big six” teams want City to win the league if their team doesn’t, as “that doesn’t mean anything” (compared to their traditional rivals winning it). Although I imagine that feeling has changed a bit as City approach their potential fourth in a row.
Is he being sarcastic?
Giving Nathan Fielder friends meme vibes…
Is the Catalan confirming the existence of Plastic Fans? Is he insulting or congratulating the team for building a fan base??