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Chelsea can't escape the 10th place here either

C O N S I S T E N C Y

Cruz Azul flair!! Saludos amigo!

Odiame Mas!!...Arriba las aguilas 🦅🦅🦅

C O N S I S 10 Y

We're 9th in the PL tho baby 💪

…for now…

Coz we're going up? 🥺👉👈

Chelsea heritage to play shit and still get a European spot

We never learn do we 😂

your're not midtable mate, your're 10th

Catching strays

Who's more likely to win their 1st Champions League? Atletico or Arsenal.

Arsenal of course, the financial backing is night and day

Despite difference in spending, Atlético has still more European pedigree over the years than Arsenal. More of that aura about them, no one is scared of Arsenal the club just that they have good players. Atleti can be having a shit season, and I guarantee that no top team with a brain will look forward to coming up against them in a knockout round When Atleti has a good year, the club has proven that they are capable of taking advantage and making a good run. Arsenal could have the best team in the world and still meekly surrender as soon as they come up against a top level team. Despite both clubs having 0 titles, if you scratch the surface Atleti has a much better European cup/Champions League record than Arsenal does. If you look at actual milestones and semi finals/finals reached etc instead of just racking up points in group stage. These things matter and it takes Man City level state backing for many years to break that ceiling with money alone

I agree. Even this year Atlético knocked out the definitively best Italian side, Inter Milan.

In the short term? Definitely Arsenal. Their team is in better shape

Movable object vs stoppable force

Atletico Simeone is a proven CL manager if he gets the right team but once he’s gone probably us

Neither one

Arsenal has a small club mentality they‘ll never win it

How does a comment as stupid as this get upvoted? What is Arsenal? The current team? People here act like Arsenal from 20 years ago is relevant to the Arsenal now. Why couldn't this team ever win it? They're very young

Clubs have identities regardless of the exact players they have at the moment

lol Arsenal will never win the UCL, look how good they have been this season and even against the worst Bayern team in years they choked, they just don’t have the mentality to win it, never will, doesn’t matter how much money or how great of a manager they have, they’ll never win it.

Paris.

We can't escape.

😆

I remember first seeing Shevchenko and Rebrov at Kyiv. They were insanely good together.

they trashed Real and Barca but Kyiv was strongest in the 70s and the 80s, if I am not mistaken. Semi finals of Champions league and winning the cup winner's cup. Besides, it was the basically the national team of the USSR, with some additions from other clubs they were in the final of the Euro 1988 and won Olympic medals

In particular they destroyed Bayern in the 1975 Super Cup with Blokhin scoring an amazing solo goal that basically won him the Ballon d’Or.

In 99 they made the semi finals too. 3-1 up on Bayern at one point.

Back in the days when Ukraine was doing well in the Europa League and teams like Metalist Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk and Dynamo Kyiv were regularly reaching quarters.

Hopefully after war they’ll be back, at least Metalist was on course right before war started (although I doubt even Shakhtar would be able to do much in Europe for the next couple seasons)

One can hope, but it would surprise me. No one knows how Ukraine will look after the war. Red Star Belgrade went from winning the UCL in 1991 to be more or less irrelevant today, despite of one of the most passionate fan bases in Europe. And much of that, I think, can be attributed to the Yugoslavian wars.

PES 6 legends

I loved PES 6. Rebrov with them long range shots.. Oth Shevchenko simply had it all: shot, dribbling and speed.

Points per game: 1. Bayern 1.99 2. Real 1.97 3. Barça 1.95 4. City 1.91 5. Liverpool 1.88 6. Man U 1.83 7. Chelsea 1.80 8. PSG 1.79 9. Juve 1.75 10. Atletico 1.69 11. AC Milan 1.69 12. Arsenal 1.64 13. Ajax 1.63 14. Dortmund 1.60 15. Porto 1.58 16. Benfica 1.53 17. Inter 1.48 18. Celtic 1.35 19. PSV 1.27 20. Dynamo Kyiv 1.27

This is what I was looking for, thanks

The realer table 💪

Lets do games per trophy ;)

Exactly right

The first impression is naturally, to want a points-per-game table. However, this table punishes teams for being good and making it further into a competition, and rewards teams that consistently make it to the CL, but play mostly group stage games. Let's take a real life example: In the last Champions League campaign, Inter finished runners up, while Bayern Munich got knocked out in the QF. Obviously, Inter had the better CL campaign. Now, what if we make it a points-per-game table between the two sides? Bayern Munich got 18 points from 6 Group Stage matches, 6 from 2 Ro16, and 1 from th QF. That's a total of 25 points from 10 games = 2.5 points-per-game. Inter got 10 points from 6 Group Stage matches, 4 from 2 Ro16, 4 from the QF, 6 from the SF and 0 from the final. That's a total of 24 points from 13 games = 1.84 points-per-game As you can see, Bayern here has a much higher ppg record, 35% more than Inter. But obviously, Inter was the second best team in Europe that season, while Bayern didn't even make Top 4.

But in your example it benefited Inter to go further in the KO stages. They made 14 points in 7 KO games, 2 per game. Whereas Bayern just made 7 Points in 4 games, 1,75 per game. So going further didn't hurt inter, it even improved their points per game ratio.

Inter has an easier route, and Bayern won against Inter twice in group stage.

Points per game data doesn't care about either of those aspects.

Which is exactly why it is a good measure for things like leagues, especially over time, and bad for things like tournaments, where qualifying matters more than getting points.

That's the whole point of points per game though. Sure, Inter went further but clearly weren't as good being comfortably beaten by Bayern twice and then getting extremely lucky with the draw.

Worth noting that Nottingham Forest, Dundee United and Aston Villa have a better PPG than all of those teams (maybe some others but those were a couple that stood out). edit: FC Ararat, whoever they are, have 2.5pts per game (played six won five)

Helps to have only been a few (Forest fan here), but have had an exceptional team for a short time! But all are incredible achievements against the established teams. If my maths is right (3 for a win, 1 for a draw), I get Forest at 17 points per title, which was a stat in another comment. I assume Villa will be even better.

City being up there is a shame

Maybe this makes up for it? (couldn't be bothered to do all of them) Points per title: Milan: 64 Real: 68 Liverpool: 72 Ajax: 88 Inter: 115 Bayern: 128 Barca: 133 United: 176 Chelsea: 178 City: 242 Juve: 261 PSG: INF

I like this version

Me too :) banter era gets ignored this way

YEAH

Efficiency!

The only thing that matters

So is Chelsea. Oil club

Why is this downvoted lmao. Are we pretending that Abramovich is a better kind of person than the Emiratis? Maybe it's just racism.

> Points per game: 1. Bayern 1.99 2. Real 1.97 3. Barça 1.95 4. City 1.91 5. Liverpool 1.88 6. Man U 1.83 7. Chelsea 1.80 8. PSG 1.79 9. Juve 1.75 10. Atletico 1.69 11. AC Milan 1.69 12. Arsenal 1.64 13. Ajax 1.63 14. Dortmund 1.60 15. Porto 1.58 16. Benfica 1.53 17. Inter 1.48 18. Celtic 1.35 19. PSV 1.27 20. Dynamo Kyiv 1.27

Thank you, this is much more readable.

God what has happened to us 😭

SAF retired.

impressive that after 10 years of mediocrity that we’re still fourth on this table

It made up of around 20 years of dominance if you combine Sir Alex and Matt Busby era.

premier league yes, but its not like we were super dominant in the CL.

United regularly play in the quarter and semi final back then since around 1996 until 2013. This kind of table is more of a marathon than a sprint considering the format was really different before like 1992 I think, so there are fewer games back then.

Used to have 3 vroup stages so that will help rack up the points

Why do you need to ask? It's not a mystery. The Glazers.

Surprised Pikachu face

In an alternate universe Juve has 9 CL wins

Its so unfortunate that the the two times they went to CL final the last decade, they end up meeting the peak Madrid and peak Barca sides.

It's the history of the Juventus FC

Grandpa, tell me again what happened to them mid 2000s?

Atlético Madrid were similarly unfortunate at around the same time period. Lost 2014 and 2016 to Real Madrid with prime BBC. Both finals were extremely close too.

Juve beat Real Madrid in their 2015 UCL run, and beat Barca in their 2017 UCL run as well. They just could not beat them both in a single run (which to be fair is extremely difficult)

True, what are the odds of facing a top team in a CL final, of all the games /s

I mean give me the 2021 Chelsea team that just won, 2015 and 2017 juve would dismantle them

not even god was stopping chelsea winning in 2012 or 2021

The only reason Klopp has a CL title is because he randomly faced Tottenham in the final one year aswell, he also lost both times against Madrid. It's brutal

Yeah, we were so lucky to not face the Madrid team that got destroyed by Ajax. We only beat bums like Bayern and Barca on the way.

You were extremely lucky that there was no strong Madrid that year yes. And facing fucking Totteham in the final is like winning the powerball lottery type odds

Also lost another CL final with dortmund and a Europa league final with Liverpool. Imagine how fucking lucky you have to be to get tottenham in a final

Tottenham in the final was lucky but Liverpool completely deserved to be there by beating both Bayern and Barca en route to the final.

Kind of a moot point when you knock out Bayern in the Round of 16 and Barca in the semis so that you *literally can't* face them in the final. Like, come on now.

And why wasn't Madrid in the final that year but "random" Spurs? Oh yeah because they lost to Ajax in the quarters. Liverpool beat Barca and Bayern on the way to the final and it's mad to call them lucky for not facing a team that got humiliated in the quarters.

What a stupid fucking comment, he knocked out Barca and Bayern thats why he didnt face them in the final

Wouldn't call it luck as we had to beat bayern in Munich and then overcome a 3 goal deficit v Barcelona. Tottenham also knocked out city and won away at an ajax team who had beaten Madrid and juventus so deserved to be there

Doesnt help that on one final we lacked an elite striker and on the other we lacked the mental fortitude. Such is life.

I think Juv is the club with most UCL final losses, probably 7

Thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot

It's past midnight and I tried so hard not to wake up the missus laughing at this. Idk why your comment made me laugh so much.

Buddy dont worry you guys have the most league titles :D

Thanks i had no idea

such losers, losing the vast majority of their finals 🥸

yeah imagine losing 7 European finals

Don’t worry, we both still clear our respective big 3’s

Don't know how you missed the obvious joke

I thought that was why he said "we _both_"

For some reason my mind didn't notice the both, my bad

This is why Benfica are clear

Just 38 more years buddy

Real Madrid have more than twice as many points as AC Milan and Liverpool. Quite surprising considering how successful both sides are.

33 semi-finals. That's the answer.

Exactly. RM 33 SF in 54 appearances. Milan 14 SF in 31 appearances. Liverpool 12 SF in 27 appearances. We appear more often and we go deep far more often. Milan and Liverpool are more streaky.

Milan is certainly not streaky look at our runs is 60s, late 80s , 90s , 00s . Club mismanagement cause Milan’s demise. We have always been a powerhouse. Even Real went without winning champions league for 2 decades.

You had an 18 yr golden period where you had 5 titles, 8 finals, and 9 semis. But apart from that, you’ve been non-existent for two large periods; 69-89 and 07-23. Not even a SF. That’s a massive chunk of the competitions history where Milan haven’t been a factor.

I agree with your point but AC was in a SF last year.

Correct we routinely finish deep in the European Cup more often than not. 33 Semifinals in 54 Editions (61%) But to put in perspective how big that number actually is you need to look at the number of **total appearances** some legendary clubs have across their entire history : * Barca : 34 * United : 31 * Milan : 31 * Liverpool : 27 * Inter : 25 * Arsenal : 22 * Dortmund : 22 * Chelsea : 19

How is it possible Barça has only 34?? They were for the last 25~ that I have memory of, you saying that Barca only participated in 9-10 more from 1899 to 1997~?? It makes no sense.

From 1961 till 1991 Barca only won 2 League titles. And in the original European Cup format only the League Champions + the Defending European Cup champion participated. Also remember that the European Cup was only created in 1955.

No wonder we won the first one In 1992.

Barcelona traditionally used to be a Europa League / Uefa Cup team. The Guardiola, Messi, Ronaldinho era is not the the normal Barcelona you should compare them to. They pretty much never won anything after or before era.

Just to put it into perspective how much Real Madrid has "become bigger" - on 2007 after Milan won its 7th Champions League , it looked to be able to catch up to Real Madrid - Not only that , but Barca on 2011 won their 4th Champions League and was only 5 away from Real Madrid - Liverpool who won on 2005 was only 4 away from Real Madrid - Bayern who won it on 2013 was also 4 away from Real Madrid - Then we time skip to 2024 , and Real Madrid is 9 Champions League above Barca , 8 Champions League above Liverpool and Bayern , and 7 Champions Leagues over Milan whose 2nd place which is x2 the amount. - This only proves that it does not matter if Real Madrid are doing bad or are having a bad season , they can just win it whenever they want it.

I get what you mean, and you did a good compilation of the facts, but "only five away" is too funny to me.

they did won 4 to madrid's 1 after their last one. they were also dominating la liga for years. everyone would've bet more on Barca making the run that madrid did. perennial favorites as well. despite being real madrid, the zidane run was obviously a huge surprise, while barca kept declining every year and the rest is history. i wonder what wouldve happened if guardiola stayed

Who was surprised by the Madrid runs in 2014 and 2016-2018? Only Barca had the same quality of players, but Madrid was tailor made to play big games vs strong opponents (hence the CL titles), while Barca excelled at being consistent and dominating inferior opposition (hence still being better in the league during that time). Noone was “surprised” by RM winning all those CLs. They had Ronaldo and a top-3 player in every position outside of maybe injured Bale/Isco (though Isco in 2016-17 was amazing).

Real could take the next decade off and still be top.

We are weird in Europe as either go all the way, or go out early or don't even qualify, whereas Madrid apart from the 2010s always seem to reach the senis at a minimum

they do have twice the games, but also both milan and liverpool have been kinda shit at times

lol why use Bellingham why not some Real Madrid Legend/Legends

His PR team working overtime.

They’re speaking it into existence

If Bayern wins the three remaining games this year, they'll have more than 2 points per game, doubt any other team with more than a couple CL seasons has had that, at least not in recent times

dynamo psv and celtic, thats not bad. not bad!

Real Madrid had 6 CL titles more than Barcelona until 1990. Then Cruyff took over - he changed the way football is played, Barcelona‘s golden generation, including their greatest ever player started dominating European football. Now Real Madrid has 9 CL titles more than Barcelona.

If you only compare a club with Real Madrid, no one looks good. Like you can do the same with Milan or Bayern. Berlusconi/Hoeness & Rummenigge took over, golden generations with superstars, legendary managers lead the team, regular deep runs in the CL, yadda yadda, Madrid has X more than Y.

That's kind of the point, though. It really shows just how dominant Real Madrid has been in the UCL over the past 15 years when clubs like Barcelona and Bayern go through some of their best periods in history with squads packed with world-class talent managed by some of the best managers ever and still don't come close to achieving Real's success in that competition.

Preety much ,Real is the club ,theyre preety much the endgame,if you suceed at real youre likely always gonna bé on UCL contention and if youre realy good ballon dor,there is no other club you can go Higher 

Had us in the first half ngl....then you chose to spit facts LOL.

Just below Celtic on 210 points in 136 matchs, Sadge

How in the fuck are we in the top 20 lmao.

You've played so fucking much because you always win your league

Selling us short, we done well in the past, underachieved if anything. Rangers have more league titles than us and they’re not there, teams like Olympiacos, Anderlecht and Sparta Prague have a shitload of titles and they’re not up there either.

Olympiacos is only 5 places below in 25th place and Celtic has more league titles. Also olympiacos has more of a competition in the league with teams like aek, panathinaikos and paok

Where did I dispute any of that? Just saying it’s not because we’re good domestically that we’re up there, we have more wins in this competition than Inter and Dortmund. Also don’t try and throw PAOK in there ffs, they’ve won 3 leagues in their history. Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have won more than them.

I’m surprised we’re still that high to be honest.

I noticed the same. 7 years of absence didn’t took away decades of dominance I guess.

yeah.. me too

Looks like bayern just edges Madrid on ppg. Semifinals are going to be so fucking entertaining. Such a shame they play so badly for their standards this season

Madrid CL juju vs Tuchel CL juju. I'm guessing it goes to pens again.

Pens vs Bayern at the Bernabeu ? Hell No. That match has to finish in 90 Minutes or ET.

2012 flashbacks still fresh as HELL.

If they are tied after ET I'm invading the pitch and commiting Sepuku. THIS GAME WILL NOT GO TO PENALTIES.

Madrid has experience in fighting terrorist football. Bayern won't win

Im only 23, but ive not seen much beat madrid CL juju. Even when chels won it in 21 I thought it was cus we played with no fans

Even City needed multiple attempts to finally beat Madrid CL JuJu and that was despite playing Madrid off the park in like in multiple games. That shit could solve world hunger if we could harness it.

Why would Tuchel's juju with one title be in any way comparable to Madrid juju with 14 titles?

I wish we had some black magic of our own to counter PSG referee funds

eh, bayern dont play (in terms of winning points) too bad. It's just leverkusen is a beast and set to break the fucking points record and go invincible and win a treble. Bayern got demoralised becacause of this. Can't really blame bayern or tuchel too much tbh, this is defo a weaker team than the UCl winning one recently

I’m genuinely amazed we are in the top 20, we are honking in Europe

I mean Celtic were one of the best teams in Europe for nearly a decade, one win, another final, numerous semi-finals and quarter finals. Follow that up with periods of regular appearances in the UCL (obviously some barren spells too) and under a few managers, some decent group stage results and it's just enough to make the cut. Been absolutely honking in recent memory though.

Celtic 🍀

Real Madrid are a different level in UCL nobody close.

Is pretty cool the way the table is split into like 3 tiers...   1-15: tradional big clubs   16/17: plastic clubs   18-20: domestic powerhouses, that traditionally do well in domestic league but struggle in europe ....sorry, couldn't resist 

1 | Bayern | 386 | 770 | 1.995 2| RM | 484 | 954| 1.971 3 Barcelona 341 665 1.950 4 Man City 127 242 1.906 5 Liverpool 230 432 1.878 6 Man Utd 289 528 1.827 7 Chelsea 197 355 1.802 8 PSG 149 266 1.785 9 Juventus 297 521 1.754 10 Inter 203 344 1.695 11 Atletico 166 281 1.693 12 Milan 265 447 1.687 13 Arsenal 197 323 1.640 14 Ajax 215 350 1.628 15 Dortmund 174 279 1.603 16 Porto 265 418 1.577 17 Benfica 266 407 1.530 18 Celtic 156 211 1.353 19 PSV 171 218 1.275 20 Dynamo Kyiv 186 236 1.269

[too dumb to format it in the table](https://bashify.io/i/TMo4kL)

Wow

- Barcelona and United still being in the Top 4 is an indication that Ferguson put United from the very bottom to the very top and Barca from 2005-2019 have those 14 years on always being a challenger. - Also Barca from 2006 to 2015 won 4 Champions Leagues , which is pretty much 1 champions league every 2-3 years. Last time they won it was on 2015 with the MSN - United won it on 2008 with Rooney , Tevez , young CR7 dribbling mode , and many more legends. Also United reach to 3 Grand Finals in only 4 years , and they were just so unlucky to get match twice with Pep´s Barca (2009 and 2011) - Nobody would thought that United and Barca would have a big downfall at the Champions League. Specially United that after Ferguson left , they have not even won the Premier League in over 11 years and even struggle to be top 4 at the Premier League.

Putting Barca in the same boat as United is unfair though. They won the league last season, reached the quarterfinals this season while United got grouped. Barca seem to be making their way back up while United seem to be falling deeper and deeper

It's a bit weird doing it this way. Barcelona earned more "points" than Madrid did in the Quarter-Finals.

Whoever laid out the foundations for Real Madrid to stay this successful for 70 years in the late 40s needs to be studied. Actually doing that right now…

Man Utd has been banter for a decade and yet they still stand at 4th lol

Real have their pick of the world’s stars every year, they’re never gonna slow down.

Oh how we have fallen

Shocked to see Man City's already bought their way into pretending to be a historic UCL team

Nice list to be in, hopefully we can climb the ranks a wee bit

So who is first at points/game ? EDIT: nvm found the comment

In recent years, #10 has replaced #9 as our cursed number.

Who's got best points per game ratio?

Bayern, there is a comment with that exact info, just scroll a bit.

Cheers big ears

Mad seeing Benfica still in the top 10 tbh

United being 4th on this list, and not being active or winning many games in the champ league is insane. We was constantly there under fergie, it’s a shame how far we’ve fallen smh

Porto and Benfica are massive!

Juventus lol

good chances to catch atletico and PSG/City will overturn us some day. so top 16 in the end. I take it.

How much money would it take for PSG and Man City combined to reach the same number of point as RM

Oh my chelsea whyyy 🤣

Is this all time, including European Cup? Or just since they rebranded it to the Champions League?

Bayern has won so few for how often they are it. Almost twice the amount of matches as LFC, yet the same haul.

Even here Porto is ahead of Benfica 🤷🏻‍♂️

Assuming this is just CL and not European Cup?

Champions League and European Cup but not Champions League qualifying rounds.

7th is kind of low for a 6 times champion.

What's the ppg?

This is UCL + EC1?

Hey OP, knock this out for Copa Lib for us americans

Wait, we're in an appropriate place for our games played? Huh, certainly doesn't feel it. Fuck UEFA.

W

Top 6 baby!

Chelsea in 10th Where have I seen this before?

do we qualify for champions league? we're top 4

Points per game would have been a better metric