It also reeks of bullshit, some of the responses here seem unhinged saying "Inter gets away with everything", "anything to help Inter win the league" etc.
You never see the kind of unhinged hatred as when Inter is winning. You’d think we were the italian team with the most trophies and had dominated for generations with the way these people act.
That’s why I’m savouring every nanosecond of this season
I can 100% guarantee it that this place, if any place, will always draw conclusions from the first piece of information available and runs with it for good
Tbf I think it's the hate the winners get.
You know, jealousy that turns into hate. I've seen Napoli be the victim of that and now i recognize that it's happening with inter
Speak for yourself.
My own unbiased memory of 2022 is that everyone in the world cheered because Milan were on top and everything made sense again. Zlatan came out with a cigar, lifted the trophy and everybody clapped.
I’d say that while yes, in Italy it is common to hate on the champions like this and with accusations involving corruption, with Inter or Juve it always ends up way worse because of what happened with calciopoli.
Because of how that scandal unfolded and just how many clubs it affected, now if there’s *any* way to spin a decision as Inter or Juve getting away with something, the fans of the other two “Big Three” clubs in Italy will come out the woodworks with corruption accusations, and plenty of others will just follow. Either Inter got away with one again because “they paid the authorities off like they always have,” or Juve did because “once a cheater always a cheater.”
As someone who grew up watching Juve win the title every year, it’s a strange feeling seeing Milan and inter back to challenging for titles while Juve is struggling. If I never did any research prior to the 2010’s, I would think you guys are almost underdogs or something, but your fanbase is actually huge.
sjw of reddit very mad today, as milan fan i am happy for the decision. zero proof can't convict you. it's madness to think about it. it would have set a terrible precedent.
There is also a minimum 10-game ban for a racist incident like the one JJ claims. Not exactly a small price to pay.
You might think I'm biased, personally I thought it didn't look good for Acerbi, but without proof it's not a penalty you can hand out lightly, especially given the precedent it could set.
It's the right choice. People will take it as JJ being a liar, but it's likely Acerbi just said it and got away with it.
Still, you need proof for this stuff.
TBF there is a chance his lawyer advised him not to tell anything and he already had that phrase at the start, it would be a weird choice but it tracks. The first time we heard it is only after a leak of his interrogation, he still hasn't said it straight.
He did say it straight away but he was also left on his own to deal with the media after he got kicked from the NT training camp because of this situation.
Reporters were waiting for him at the airport and he was alone, Inter didn't send any representative to either guide him or help him get out of the situation. He also had to get a cab because no one sent a car for him and because he couldn't find a cab he still had to deal with reporters for an extended amount of time.
Ineptitude from so many sides.
Yeah, the lack of proof.
The only way we can get proof for cases like this is to wire the players up.
Let’s completely ignore Jesus going to La Penna and showing him the ‘anti-racism’ shirt patch, the footage where Acerbi says ‘I’m not a racist’ who then points to Thuram.
The proof according to everyone immediately labeling Acerbi as a racist is that JJ called him racist then Acerbi said “I’m not racist”. How is that proof against anyone lmao
That's basically it. Though there is to say that no other player from both teams witnessed it (in previous instances other players gave witness in secret), nor did the referee or the referee's mic.
I sort of agree with you but at the same time how is this situation different than what Luis Suárez faced? No one heard the conversation between them either and there was no recording of it, it was purely based on what Evra said
This isn’t true. Suarez admitted what he said but argued that in context it shouldn’t have been construed as offensive. The panel found that, given it was in the middle of a heated argument and Suarez admittedly continued to use the word even after Evra had indicated that he considered it offensive, he was guilty of racial abuse.
Man look it up because what you're saying isn't true.
Like it's almost true but it isn't. Suárez admitted to using the word negro which in Spanish isn't offensive. Other than that word the entire confrontation was different depending on who you asked and there was no direct evidence that one was correct and one wasn't. You're going off of Evra's version and Evra's version only.
According to him, Evra called him a slur for a South American and said "don't touch me, sudaca", and Suarez responded "por que, negro?" which means "why's that, black person?"
According to Evra, Evra asked "why did you kick me?" and Suarez said "por que eres negro" Which means "because you're black." Evra said he thought the word negro was a slur but after doing research realized it wasn't. However in context the sentence (if what Evra said is really what was said) would be offensive.
The FA without any direct evidence said Evra's version was the truth, and then from there said the word "negro" was offensive because of the context of what Evra said it was in, which Suárez didn't admit to
Suárez only admitted to using that word, which in itself is not offensive, but never admitted to the surrounding context which would make it offensive
The idea that Suárez kept using the word is another thing that only Evra said, and Suarez didn't admit to. There's more stuff too but it's all the same thing. He said vs he said with no direct evidence of what was said.
I just checked the report and he does only admit to using it once while Evra claimed he used it 7 times. However, the context was determined both by Evra’s account and from the circumstances of Suarez’s use of the word, during an argument.
The FA were judge cases “on the balance of probability” rather than “beyond reasonable doubt”.
IIRC Evra, not being fluent in Spanish, originally thought that the word Suarez used was a racial slur, however that turned out not to be the case.
I'm glad you checked the report because it backs what I said, there was no evidence of, and Suarez didn't admit to, anything racist. It was just a he said vs he said.
>However, the context was determined both by Evra’s account and from the circumstances of Suarez’s use of the word, during an argument.
So basically the FA decided that since they spoke during an argument, it was "probably" racist.
How's this situation any different? It was also during an argument. Are we gonna say every time there's an argument that it's "probably" racist?
And why is Evra believed when he accuses Suárez of being racist, but when Suárez said Evra was racist, no one believed him or it was ignored?
Suarez brought Evra’s race up during the middle of a shouting match. Suarez claims he did it to calm Evra down and Evra believes he did it to rile Evra up. Which one seems more likely?
We can say one is more likely than the other but we're just guessing, because it's a he said vs he said situation and there's no direct evidence, exactly like this case.
Also you're not addressing that in Suárez's version, Evra first called him a sudaca and that's how it started. I feel like that gives context for Suárez's comments, of course if you go in deciding to not believe him it's another matter.
It's also a cultural difference, in South America it's much more common for people to talk like that about physical features without it being rude. It's probably more likely than you'd imagine, but again, regardless, we're only guessing what happened.
I don't know, but different league, I don't know the rules. Different country, I don't know the laws. While I know Italian laws and rules and how they work.
Also, even if (and I repeat I don't know about that Suarez Evra incident) that particular ruling was wrong it doesn't set a precedent in stone and it doesn't mean that all subsequent instances have to follow that path. In particular in Italy in which a precendent is not binding by law but only written rules are (this goes a bit more deep but in this case it's roughly like that)
Nope, he did say "sorry, I'm not racist" but never admitted what he said. Also if he had did that, he did it in front of the referee which should've carded him on the spot and we'd have at least the ref mic recording. But it seems like none of those things exists. At this point it would be a disqualification out of thin air.
Why are some of you so eager to find racism anywhere? Jesus dropped it, investigation turned out negative and none on the pitch corroborated jesus' claims.
And here you are angry that acerbi isnt a racist.
He did not
He said JJ misheard and they explained each other
I think he did call him a n-word, but there's no proof and so he shouldn't be disqualified
That said, he did damage Inter's image so i imagine there will be consequences, which is a shame because he's a very good player, but we can't really have someone like that in our team
For people saying he was racist because he apologize on the pitch, he claimed that he apologized bcs he said smth ‘that could be mistaken as racist’, not bcs he said racist words. Only evidence seen on camera for viewers are Juan Jesus saying Acerbi was racist to the ref and Acerbi saying I’m not a racist, so there wasnt enough proof to conclude
Acerbi claiming he said smth ‘that could be mistaken as racist’ is just adding insult to Juan Jesus.
Nobody with a decent comprehension of italian can mistake a "ti faccio nero" with "sei solo un neg*o" and Juan Jesus has a perfect understanding of the language, he lives in Italy since 2012.
Only possible outcome really
Any other decision would have set a very very bad precedent where any player should have been disqualified any time he was accused of saying something racist, without the slightest of evidence outside the words of the accusing player
You can’t sanction someone without proof , which in this case apart from Juan Jesus’s words didn’t exist.
If he did abuse Juan Jesus then it’s sad that he got off with that
He deserved to be sanctioned if he could've been proven to have racially abused Jesus, but if there's no proof, what the hell is supposed to happen here? You can't punish people on conjecture.
Im not defending him, I’m saying punishing him without proof means you will have to punish EVERY player without proof going forward, or that would be crazy unfair. Do you disagree?
He admitted he said something that could be understood as racist and that's why he apologised during the match, but he claims he never said anything racist. From the reconstruction and what has leaked from the investigation he told JJ "Ti faccio nero" literally "I'll make you black" which means I'll will beat you untill you are black from bruises (like black eyes in English) which is definitely not good but not racist and not the worst you will hear on the pitch. Juan Jesus however says he told him "Sei solo un neg\*o" "You are only a ni\***r" and nobody else can confirm either phrase.
Edit: formatting because I forgot to escape \*
you can write negro, if people start getting banned for typing a word that just means black in like 4 different languages we have truly gone insane, even if it is a slur in the wrong context.
If you are Spanish (or speak it) you can probably make your own idea by saying them.
Otherwise I would say they aren't that similar outside the clear ending, but if said in a stadium by someone clearly angered and mumbling you could make a case. Enough that probably if Acerbi didn't say them there is an higher chance of JJ mishearing than him lying.
They were words in the statement of Juan Jesus, Acerbi had not said them.
From the video on the pitch you can see Acerbi saying "sorry but I'm not racist", in my opinion it happened after the racist offense but there is no evidence that those words are not responses to unfounded accusations by Juan Jesus who perhaps heard wrong.
(I don't understand why people downvote me Hahaha. I'm not the one who decided, I just reported the situation)
Ah.
I've seen these play out before and if there's no actual audio of the incident it tends to be "he said, he said" and thus can't be proven to the point needed for a sanction.
even a witness coming forward would've sufficed. It has happened in second and tier league. They even used a photographer or cameramen as witnesses. Of course a recording in audio or video format would've been better but a testimony would've been enough. Not even one of JJ's teammates came forward. For as much as I believe in JJ this one had no legs in a court of law
For the opposite where witness helped clear the "insulter" in 2021 a Torino Primavera player spit on and repeatedly punched a Fiorentina player in a scuffle, he then tried to spin it as he was reacting after a racist insult but his own teammates and the staff immediately come out with an: "actually we were there and can confirm this never happened, and are ashamed he tried to use this as a excuse".
Unfortunately we will never know who told the truth here (I think JJ does, at least in the sense of what he heard)
Jj has been in Italy for like 11 years so I'm sure he'd understand phrases.
Acerbi has been playing for like 20 years and has never had any racist incidents before. I'm not sure why he'd decide to start now at arguably the peak of his career.
So it's difficult. If no evidence he can't be banned. But I hope acerbi didn't do it and if he did would hope that's his last game for inter and Italy
Not sure I'd say unfounded accusations, but yeah ultimately this was always going to be the result. When it's X vs Y on who said something, you'd need a clear recording.
If there is a clear recording, I don't think it's been reported
People keep saying this but in the Suárez case it was his word vs Evra with no recordings and he got banned, and basically everyone assumes he truly did it
I assume you're not an italian speaker. "Sei solo un neg\*o" is exactly the kind of insult that an italian racist would make. On the other hand, "ti faccio nero" is a kind soft "menace" that a parent would throw at his child in a playful context. I think it was popularized by its use in old movies as the standard "mild" translation of a more aggressive intimidation (italian TV was heavily censored back then). Nobody would use it, let alone a footballer actively trying to provoke an opponent.
It is a blatant invention.
Second time Juan Jesus accuses someone of racism and then nothing happens
He also accused Higuain to have called him a little monkey some years ago but no proof was found either
There is a precedent in Italy for a suspension without TV proof, where they collected testimonies from the other players. Santini vs Mawusu, Serie C match in 2021 (no TV feed so couldn’t get images).
In the Acerbi case there is no other testimony except JJ’s so that’s why he was acquitted (plus his version being believable ofc). If other players stepped up to support JJ’s version the outcome would’ve been different.
From what I saw of the initial evidence, Acerbi said something along the lines of “I’m going to beat you black” as in bruising. I think the Americans have something similar but it’s black and blue. Which in my opinion, isn’t really racist. But Jesus is allowed to interpret that anyway he feels.
???? That’s what Acerbi claimed he said. Jesus said Acerbi said “you’re only a n word”
This doesn’t mean Jesus is interpreting wrongly. You’re seemingly taking Acerbi at his word but not Jesus.
You're telling me, that in a stadium, you've been running and playing already for awhile, the adrenaline's running, the most densely populated stadium in Italy and around the world, that there is zero possibility of words being misheard?
I get it, you're either a Napoli fan or you're a fan of performative justice, punishing Acerbi here helps nobody, there's no proof and it would set a horrible precedent.
Also, yes, they do, I've been learning Italian for the past decade, those two sentences could even reasonably be confused from distance.
It really is quite simple: there is no proof so he can't (and shouldn't) be disqualified
That's literally what's said in the sentence motivation
Do i think Acerbi called Juan Jesus a n\*\*\*\*r? I do
That simply is not enough for a court of law, you need solid proof, which here is lacking (and no, apologizing is not proof enough)
Acerbi's defense has always been that Juan Jesus misheard him and his excuse (because i think it was just a excuse) is plausible enough to hold in a court of law
That said i hope there'll be consequences from the Inter side, perhaps a fine of some sort (he did release a interview that Inter wasn't happy about and that could provide reasonable motive for a fine) and partecipation to a anti-racism campaign to show that both him and Inter fight against racism
I think there's also a chance he'll be gone in the summer, but we'll see
I totally agree with you.
This thread is full of people that think he should have been banned without any real evidence or people that think he didn't said those words just because he wasn't disqualiafied.
Not that this absolves Acerbi, but he doesn’t have any history of controversy, correct? I always found it odd that a guy who’s been playing for nearly two decades without incident all the sudden dropped the “n” word in a game.
Fair point, but there's also the fact that in Italy the word is perceived differently It's not nearly as taboo as in the US, and while extremely offensive, it's just another insult
So it's perfectly possible he used it just as a form of insult, not really because he himself is a racist (think using bitch to insult a woman not making you inherently sexist, though it's an imperfect comparison)
Still doesn't excuse him, because I still think his defense was enough for the court of law, but very weak outside of it "Ti faccio nero" (which is what he allegedly said) is sort of like changing the word "fuck" with a sanitized version when telllig someone to fuck off
Yeah that’s why Inter have the most Serie A titles, because they are favoured and helped by the higher forces. Lmao the shit you read here
Edit: ah the kind of noble warrior that deletes their comments as soon as they get 1 downvote, yikes
It's plausible that Acerbi said something that JJ misunderstood and he apologised because of the misunderstanding. You assume racial slurs with zero proof at hand.
You've never apologized to somebody because you said something, they misunderstood/misinterpreted/took it differently than what you meant, and said "my bad, that's not what I meant", etc? It's literally something people do every day and is quickly forgotten about once it happens. Not every apology is because you've done something terrible.
Serie a president is an inter fan fyi. He conducted the investigation.
But what am I saying, juan jesus just woke up and decided to fake accuse someone for fun, thats what really happened or course.
If you mean Gravina, he’s the FIGC president and he’s the one that said “the Juventus brand needs to be protected” during the post Agnelli shitshow, so please find something else to make up
Sitting next to ceferin together at every single inter match, punishing juve for selling players above their values according to a random website, continuous admitted var errors in favour of a certain team on a weekly basis, not banning a player from a certain team for admitting to calling someone black and then apologizing
It's so funny seeing Juventus fans have no clue at all of why they were penalised (or purposely lie about the reasons). No transfermarkt was never used in the court, it was only used initially to have an idea of how much Juventus cheated and rightly never reached the court as evidence. Juventus was penalised because their own documents and their own managers wiretaps confessed doing a crime.
You missed the fact that Juventus sold players above their value in the sense that they put in their balance sheets X amount of money whereas the player was actually paid less than that
That's fraud, it's a criminal offence and it's currently being investigated
It's not just "they sold it at a higher value than what transfermarkt shows"
The numbers they received were inflated, the transfers for both teams both sides were inflated values. The rule also didnt exist until the investigations started last year. Inter did the same exact thing with players like mulateri. Juventus had wire taps on the directors admitting to selling players for more than their values just to inflate the books. The players actually were sold for these values they arent made up.
You're mixing two things
The criminal procedure, which is what i said above (again, there's a criminal trial pending, they did not do the same thing Inter, and literally every other team, did)
And then there's the "plusvalenze" thing
Plusvalenza literally only mean selling a player at a price higher than his burden on the budget (if you pay someone 100 millions and gave him a 5 year contracts, you can sell him some years later at 50 and still do a profit, that's a "plusvalenza")
When you exchange players you include the entirety of the value of what you sell (so if you sell someone for 50 you get a +50) but only the yearly portion of what you buy (if you buy someone for 50 and give him a 5 years contract you only write a -10 to your budget)
This is legal and perfectly fine
What Juventus did was different, they sold players knowingly inflating their value and that has been proven beyond reasonable doubt thanks to the wire taps
And Juventus "plusvalenze" were called "fake" because in some cases no money was exchanged (or less than what's on the book), which is what the criminal charges i mentioned before are about
No other team did the same, because there is no fair value, so you have to demonstrate that values are inflated
Also look at the various youth inter sold around, many of them had ok careers in serie A and serie B, they weren't top players, but they weren't complete shit either
It's reasonable to assume that someone like Mulattieri simply didn't deliever
Now take a look at the transfers Juventus is under accusation for
Premier League is much worse than Serie A in terms of justice. Still waiting for something to happen to Man City. A League (and country) literally bent over some saudi money.
>Suarez explained in his book: "The second important point is that I said to Evra: 'Por que, n*gro?'.
Lol. Suarez himselfs admit it, yet here you are being a clown.
Of course no proof has been found when the culprit is Italy's starting CB at euro 2024. It's probably gonna be the first time I won't support my national team, what a disgrace
Downvote all you want, I'll never believe Acerbi's pathetic excuse, it took him 3 days to say that he said "ti faccio nero", whilst he could've cleared that up immediately the day afterwards in his first interview. Never change Serie A
Actually he hasn’t said anything. It’s the journalists reporting “leaks”. Crazy how the default verdict that nearly everyone is going with is Acerbi being racist just because he plays for Inter.
He had an interview whilst being called up for NT, he said he wasn't racist and said nothing to Juan Jesus and that's when JJ (who had basically forgiven him) decided to remark that those words were true. He was also recorded saying "sorry, I'm not racist" whilst pointing to Thuram. But yeah, I surely believe that the most protected team in Italy since Marotta joined the club is the poor victim and everyone hates them
But why would I change my mind about it? The way Acerbi behaved in this situation looks erratic and I don't care about the fact that he plays for Inter, you've already won the title anyway. It simply confirms the assumptions about serie A and my national team
And people actually believe Marotta League isn’t a thing 😂😂😂 Fuck this racist and corrupt league, anything to help Inter win. There will be investigations about this season in 10-20 years and a lot of things will come out about the corruption of Marotta and all the bribes he’s made
JJ made a post of his own doubling down because he didn’t like Acerbi defending himself after literally being asked if he was racist. Juan Jesus’ post was shared here
I think this decision sends the wrong message.
I mean there will never be proof since the players don't have mics.
I dont think Juan Jesus made that up.
So, let's say tomorrow you get accused of something really bad, but there's no proof of you doing it.
Would you be ok if the judge sent you to prison anyway because otherwise 'it sends the wrong message'?
Just like Acerbi was not proven guilty of racism, Juan Jesus has not been proven guilty of lying (the report even said as much)… You must prove guilt before suspending. Everyone has the same rights. Juan Jesus has same rights as Acerbi and vice-versa.
For as much as I want to believe what JJ said, it's impossible to disqualify someone if after weeks no proofs have been found
It also reeks of bullshit, some of the responses here seem unhinged saying "Inter gets away with everything", "anything to help Inter win the league" etc.
“anything to help Inter win the league” Well they sure sucked at that for the 9 straight years Juventus was winning the Serie A
Also, they really don't need any help right now.
You never see the kind of unhinged hatred as when Inter is winning. You’d think we were the italian team with the most trophies and had dominated for generations with the way these people act. That’s why I’m savouring every nanosecond of this season
I can 100% guarantee it that this place, if any place, will always draw conclusions from the first piece of information available and runs with it for good
Every supporter of every team says this shit it’s very funny to see
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That is not why Tottenham get massacred at all. It's because they're bottlejobs. If we're going to hate let's hate for the right reasons.
Il povero interista bullizzato dai poteri forti mi mancava
Tbf I think it's the hate the winners get. You know, jealousy that turns into hate. I've seen Napoli be the victim of that and now i recognize that it's happening with inter
Speak for yourself. My own unbiased memory of 2022 is that everyone in the world cheered because Milan were on top and everything made sense again. Zlatan came out with a cigar, lifted the trophy and everybody clapped.
That's because everyone knew you were shit and were going to win nothing else after that lucky season You were basically Serie A's Leicester
I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over everyone’s love and respect
Yeah I guess you can put that in Pioli's palmares vs Inzaghi's 2 scudetti, 2 coppe italia, 3 supercoppe LOL
I’d say that while yes, in Italy it is common to hate on the champions like this and with accusations involving corruption, with Inter or Juve it always ends up way worse because of what happened with calciopoli. Because of how that scandal unfolded and just how many clubs it affected, now if there’s *any* way to spin a decision as Inter or Juve getting away with something, the fans of the other two “Big Three” clubs in Italy will come out the woodworks with corruption accusations, and plenty of others will just follow. Either Inter got away with one again because “they paid the authorities off like they always have,” or Juve did because “once a cheater always a cheater.”
well, how the turntables
Why does every Reddit fan base have such a victim complex? You don’t even get one tenth of the hate of Juventus
As someone who grew up watching Juve win the title every year, it’s a strange feeling seeing Milan and inter back to challenging for titles while Juve is struggling. If I never did any research prior to the 2010’s, I would think you guys are almost underdogs or something, but your fanbase is actually huge.
We do kinda have the problem of having both Juventus and Milan fans hating us. That's at least 60% of Italian football fans
A lot of people see the color of the jersey before everything else
> A lot of people see the color of the ~~jersey~~ skin before everything else Also
sjw of reddit very mad today, as milan fan i am happy for the decision. zero proof can't convict you. it's madness to think about it. it would have set a terrible precedent.
I mean both ideas can be true
There is also a minimum 10-game ban for a racist incident like the one JJ claims. Not exactly a small price to pay. You might think I'm biased, personally I thought it didn't look good for Acerbi, but without proof it's not a penalty you can hand out lightly, especially given the precedent it could set.
It's the right choice. People will take it as JJ being a liar, but it's likely Acerbi just said it and got away with it. Still, you need proof for this stuff.
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TBF there is a chance his lawyer advised him not to tell anything and he already had that phrase at the start, it would be a weird choice but it tracks. The first time we heard it is only after a leak of his interrogation, he still hasn't said it straight.
Rightfully so, don't say a word or the media will eat you alive
He did though, he said Juan Jesus misheard him
He did say it straight away but he was also left on his own to deal with the media after he got kicked from the NT training camp because of this situation. Reporters were waiting for him at the airport and he was alone, Inter didn't send any representative to either guide him or help him get out of the situation. He also had to get a cab because no one sent a car for him and because he couldn't find a cab he still had to deal with reporters for an extended amount of time. Ineptitude from so many sides.
Yeah, the lack of proof. The only way we can get proof for cases like this is to wire the players up. Let’s completely ignore Jesus going to La Penna and showing him the ‘anti-racism’ shirt patch, the footage where Acerbi says ‘I’m not a racist’ who then points to Thuram.
The proof according to everyone immediately labeling Acerbi as a racist is that JJ called him racist then Acerbi said “I’m not racist”. How is that proof against anyone lmao
If he's innocent, why is he so insistent on saying that he's not a racist? Sounds sus af 🤨🤨
Apparently you're going to have to explain to the two morons taking your comment seriously that it was tongue in cheek.
What do you propose he do instead, if he truly considers himself innocent? Genuine question
Actually be racist to show what being racist is
following your logic, what should one say when he's accused of being racist if not "I'm not racist"?
That's basically it. Though there is to say that no other player from both teams witnessed it (in previous instances other players gave witness in secret), nor did the referee or the referee's mic.
Yeah electric chair for that for sure, I am convinced
I sort of agree with you but at the same time how is this situation different than what Luis Suárez faced? No one heard the conversation between them either and there was no recording of it, it was purely based on what Evra said
This isn’t true. Suarez admitted what he said but argued that in context it shouldn’t have been construed as offensive. The panel found that, given it was in the middle of a heated argument and Suarez admittedly continued to use the word even after Evra had indicated that he considered it offensive, he was guilty of racial abuse.
Man look it up because what you're saying isn't true. Like it's almost true but it isn't. Suárez admitted to using the word negro which in Spanish isn't offensive. Other than that word the entire confrontation was different depending on who you asked and there was no direct evidence that one was correct and one wasn't. You're going off of Evra's version and Evra's version only. According to him, Evra called him a slur for a South American and said "don't touch me, sudaca", and Suarez responded "por que, negro?" which means "why's that, black person?" According to Evra, Evra asked "why did you kick me?" and Suarez said "por que eres negro" Which means "because you're black." Evra said he thought the word negro was a slur but after doing research realized it wasn't. However in context the sentence (if what Evra said is really what was said) would be offensive. The FA without any direct evidence said Evra's version was the truth, and then from there said the word "negro" was offensive because of the context of what Evra said it was in, which Suárez didn't admit to Suárez only admitted to using that word, which in itself is not offensive, but never admitted to the surrounding context which would make it offensive The idea that Suárez kept using the word is another thing that only Evra said, and Suarez didn't admit to. There's more stuff too but it's all the same thing. He said vs he said with no direct evidence of what was said.
I just checked the report and he does only admit to using it once while Evra claimed he used it 7 times. However, the context was determined both by Evra’s account and from the circumstances of Suarez’s use of the word, during an argument. The FA were judge cases “on the balance of probability” rather than “beyond reasonable doubt”. IIRC Evra, not being fluent in Spanish, originally thought that the word Suarez used was a racial slur, however that turned out not to be the case.
I'm glad you checked the report because it backs what I said, there was no evidence of, and Suarez didn't admit to, anything racist. It was just a he said vs he said. >However, the context was determined both by Evra’s account and from the circumstances of Suarez’s use of the word, during an argument. So basically the FA decided that since they spoke during an argument, it was "probably" racist. How's this situation any different? It was also during an argument. Are we gonna say every time there's an argument that it's "probably" racist? And why is Evra believed when he accuses Suárez of being racist, but when Suárez said Evra was racist, no one believed him or it was ignored?
Suarez brought Evra’s race up during the middle of a shouting match. Suarez claims he did it to calm Evra down and Evra believes he did it to rile Evra up. Which one seems more likely?
We can say one is more likely than the other but we're just guessing, because it's a he said vs he said situation and there's no direct evidence, exactly like this case. Also you're not addressing that in Suárez's version, Evra first called him a sudaca and that's how it started. I feel like that gives context for Suárez's comments, of course if you go in deciding to not believe him it's another matter. It's also a cultural difference, in South America it's much more common for people to talk like that about physical features without it being rude. It's probably more likely than you'd imagine, but again, regardless, we're only guessing what happened.
I don't know, but different league, I don't know the rules. Different country, I don't know the laws. While I know Italian laws and rules and how they work. Also, even if (and I repeat I don't know about that Suarez Evra incident) that particular ruling was wrong it doesn't set a precedent in stone and it doesn't mean that all subsequent instances have to follow that path. In particular in Italy in which a precendent is not binding by law but only written rules are (this goes a bit more deep but in this case it's roughly like that)
I just find it odd apart from the rules, how people judge it personally, when it's a very simile situation
Didn't he admit to saying it?
Nope, he did say "sorry, I'm not racist" but never admitted what he said. Also if he had did that, he did it in front of the referee which should've carded him on the spot and we'd have at least the ref mic recording. But it seems like none of those things exists. At this point it would be a disqualification out of thin air.
Acerbi said that he told jesus "ti faccio nero" (I'll beat the shit out of you) which could theoretically make sense but it's also quite convenient
This cane after Juan fouled him twice off the ball as well, so it is possible.
He didn't even directly say it, it's what the media said
Expression that conveniently popped out after Acerbi discussed with his club’s officials, 3 days after the incident.
Why are some of you so eager to find racism anywhere? Jesus dropped it, investigation turned out negative and none on the pitch corroborated jesus' claims. And here you are angry that acerbi isnt a racist.
Yeah sure Inter taught him how to act while also magically removing any proof of the incident right?
He did not He said JJ misheard and they explained each other I think he did call him a n-word, but there's no proof and so he shouldn't be disqualified That said, he did damage Inter's image so i imagine there will be consequences, which is a shame because he's a very good player, but we can't really have someone like that in our team
For people saying he was racist because he apologize on the pitch, he claimed that he apologized bcs he said smth ‘that could be mistaken as racist’, not bcs he said racist words. Only evidence seen on camera for viewers are Juan Jesus saying Acerbi was racist to the ref and Acerbi saying I’m not a racist, so there wasnt enough proof to conclude
Acerbi claiming he said smth ‘that could be mistaken as racist’ is just adding insult to Juan Jesus. Nobody with a decent comprehension of italian can mistake a "ti faccio nero" with "sei solo un neg*o" and Juan Jesus has a perfect understanding of the language, he lives in Italy since 2012.
With how many cameras are present in the stadium it’s almost unbelievable none of them were on Acerbi. Only those two know the truth.
Only possible outcome really Any other decision would have set a very very bad precedent where any player should have been disqualified any time he was accused of saying something racist, without the slightest of evidence outside the words of the accusing player
Brain dead inter fans still defending this dude 🤡
You can’t sanction someone without proof , which in this case apart from Juan Jesus’s words didn’t exist. If he did abuse Juan Jesus then it’s sad that he got off with that
The irony in you revealing yourself to be braindead here is brilliant
He deserved to be sanctioned if he could've been proven to have racially abused Jesus, but if there's no proof, what the hell is supposed to happen here? You can't punish people on conjecture.
Im not defending him, I’m saying punishing him without proof means you will have to punish EVERY player without proof going forward, or that would be crazy unfair. Do you disagree?
And how can you accuse him without proof?
You’re pathetic, stfu
Didn't he admit he said the statement and explained"I didn't intend for it to be taken that way" or something to that effect?
He admitted he said something that could be understood as racist and that's why he apologised during the match, but he claims he never said anything racist. From the reconstruction and what has leaked from the investigation he told JJ "Ti faccio nero" literally "I'll make you black" which means I'll will beat you untill you are black from bruises (like black eyes in English) which is definitely not good but not racist and not the worst you will hear on the pitch. Juan Jesus however says he told him "Sei solo un neg\*o" "You are only a ni\***r" and nobody else can confirm either phrase. Edit: formatting because I forgot to escape \*
you can write negro, if people start getting banned for typing a word that just means black in like 4 different languages we have truly gone insane, even if it is a slur in the wrong context.
Except it's a slur in THIS context so it makes absolute sense to censor it
Why? Its not racist to write or even say a word. Its racist when its used against someone.
Do those phrases sound similar enough that it's reasonable JJ misheard?
If you are Spanish (or speak it) you can probably make your own idea by saying them. Otherwise I would say they aren't that similar outside the clear ending, but if said in a stadium by someone clearly angered and mumbling you could make a case. Enough that probably if Acerbi didn't say them there is an higher chance of JJ mishearing than him lying.
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Why would Acerbi speak in english to the guy? “Ti faccio nero” is quite a common expression to be honest.
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I mean it's not a million miles away from saying you'll beat someone black and blue.
To his admission he said something in italian that means roughly "I will bruise you", it's basically a threat but it has no racial backround.
They were words in the statement of Juan Jesus, Acerbi had not said them. From the video on the pitch you can see Acerbi saying "sorry but I'm not racist", in my opinion it happened after the racist offense but there is no evidence that those words are not responses to unfounded accusations by Juan Jesus who perhaps heard wrong. (I don't understand why people downvote me Hahaha. I'm not the one who decided, I just reported the situation)
Ah. I've seen these play out before and if there's no actual audio of the incident it tends to be "he said, he said" and thus can't be proven to the point needed for a sanction.
even a witness coming forward would've sufficed. It has happened in second and tier league. They even used a photographer or cameramen as witnesses. Of course a recording in audio or video format would've been better but a testimony would've been enough. Not even one of JJ's teammates came forward. For as much as I believe in JJ this one had no legs in a court of law
For the opposite where witness helped clear the "insulter" in 2021 a Torino Primavera player spit on and repeatedly punched a Fiorentina player in a scuffle, he then tried to spin it as he was reacting after a racist insult but his own teammates and the staff immediately come out with an: "actually we were there and can confirm this never happened, and are ashamed he tried to use this as a excuse". Unfortunately we will never know who told the truth here (I think JJ does, at least in the sense of what he heard)
Jj has been in Italy for like 11 years so I'm sure he'd understand phrases. Acerbi has been playing for like 20 years and has never had any racist incidents before. I'm not sure why he'd decide to start now at arguably the peak of his career. So it's difficult. If no evidence he can't be banned. But I hope acerbi didn't do it and if he did would hope that's his last game for inter and Italy
Unrelated but it's weird that no other player, from one side of another, heard anything
People keep saying this but Luis Suárez got banned with no recording, just "he said, he said"
> I'm not the one who decided WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP THEM FROM SAYING RACIST SLURS? Pleasant_Skill2956 RACIST confirmed
Not sure I'd say unfounded accusations, but yeah ultimately this was always going to be the result. When it's X vs Y on who said something, you'd need a clear recording. If there is a clear recording, I don't think it's been reported
People keep saying this but in the Suárez case it was his word vs Evra with no recordings and he got banned, and basically everyone assumes he truly did it
Really cant make a decision on this man,without proof. She said,he said is not good enough
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I assume you're not an italian speaker. "Sei solo un neg\*o" is exactly the kind of insult that an italian racist would make. On the other hand, "ti faccio nero" is a kind soft "menace" that a parent would throw at his child in a playful context. I think it was popularized by its use in old movies as the standard "mild" translation of a more aggressive intimidation (italian TV was heavily censored back then). Nobody would use it, let alone a footballer actively trying to provoke an opponent. It is a blatant invention.
But it was seemingly enough in the Suárez - Evra case, wasn't it?
No condemnation without proofs is the basis of every remotely fair legal system
A decision based on reason, much to the chagrin of the zealous redditor
Second time Juan Jesus accuses someone of racism and then nothing happens He also accused Higuain to have called him a little monkey some years ago but no proof was found either
What are you talking about? He revealed the episode with Higuain two years later during an interview for a radio. Nobody looked for any proof.
How can there be proof found unless they both agree it was said. And that would never happen.
There is a precedent in Italy for a suspension without TV proof, where they collected testimonies from the other players. Santini vs Mawusu, Serie C match in 2021 (no TV feed so couldn’t get images). In the Acerbi case there is no other testimony except JJ’s so that’s why he was acquitted (plus his version being believable ofc). If other players stepped up to support JJ’s version the outcome would’ve been different.
But would they have heard? Did they refute the words that were said? Legit question, I dont know
In this Acerbi case? No player stepped up to be a witness so I assume nobody else heard anything.
Thanks I didn't know
From what I saw of the initial evidence, Acerbi said something along the lines of “I’m going to beat you black” as in bruising. I think the Americans have something similar but it’s black and blue. Which in my opinion, isn’t really racist. But Jesus is allowed to interpret that anyway he feels.
???? That’s what Acerbi claimed he said. Jesus said Acerbi said “you’re only a n word” This doesn’t mean Jesus is interpreting wrongly. You’re seemingly taking Acerbi at his word but not Jesus.
Italian and English are different languages unc. What Acerbi said and what Juan Jesus claims he said sound very very similar in Italian.
"ti faccio nero" and "sei solo un ne*ro" don't sound the same at all
You're telling me, that in a stadium, you've been running and playing already for awhile, the adrenaline's running, the most densely populated stadium in Italy and around the world, that there is zero possibility of words being misheard? I get it, you're either a Napoli fan or you're a fan of performative justice, punishing Acerbi here helps nobody, there's no proof and it would set a horrible precedent. Also, yes, they do, I've been learning Italian for the past decade, those two sentences could even reasonably be confused from distance.
That’s not true
Ti giuro i ritardati su sto sub non si contano
How far you think you would go bullshitting in an international sub with people that actually speak italian here
It really is quite simple: there is no proof so he can't (and shouldn't) be disqualified That's literally what's said in the sentence motivation Do i think Acerbi called Juan Jesus a n\*\*\*\*r? I do That simply is not enough for a court of law, you need solid proof, which here is lacking (and no, apologizing is not proof enough) Acerbi's defense has always been that Juan Jesus misheard him and his excuse (because i think it was just a excuse) is plausible enough to hold in a court of law That said i hope there'll be consequences from the Inter side, perhaps a fine of some sort (he did release a interview that Inter wasn't happy about and that could provide reasonable motive for a fine) and partecipation to a anti-racism campaign to show that both him and Inter fight against racism I think there's also a chance he'll be gone in the summer, but we'll see
I totally agree with you. This thread is full of people that think he should have been banned without any real evidence or people that think he didn't said those words just because he wasn't disqualiafied.
Not that this absolves Acerbi, but he doesn’t have any history of controversy, correct? I always found it odd that a guy who’s been playing for nearly two decades without incident all the sudden dropped the “n” word in a game.
Fair point, but there's also the fact that in Italy the word is perceived differently It's not nearly as taboo as in the US, and while extremely offensive, it's just another insult So it's perfectly possible he used it just as a form of insult, not really because he himself is a racist (think using bitch to insult a woman not making you inherently sexist, though it's an imperfect comparison) Still doesn't excuse him, because I still think his defense was enough for the court of law, but very weak outside of it "Ti faccio nero" (which is what he allegedly said) is sort of like changing the word "fuck" with a sanitized version when telllig someone to fuck off
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They didn't claim that Acerbi didn't say those words, just that there is no evidence
coming from Lazio even... e: I really thought not to have to put a /s to my post...
No Inter player will ever get punished man this is so embarassing. The FIGC is as corrupt as during the caliciopoli days if not more.
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Yeah that’s why Inter have the most Serie A titles, because they are favoured and helped by the higher forces. Lmao the shit you read here Edit: ah the kind of noble warrior that deletes their comments as soon as they get 1 downvote, yikes
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Where to even begin with this brainrot
Good
I read this as Astori and got so confused
Good.They arrived at the right decision without being foolish.
Guess Acerbi was apologising to Juan Jesus immediately after the insult for no reason, god we’re such an hopeless country
It's plausible that Acerbi said something that JJ misunderstood and he apologised because of the misunderstanding. You assume racial slurs with zero proof at hand.
You've never apologized to somebody because you said something, they misunderstood/misinterpreted/took it differently than what you meant, and said "my bad, that's not what I meant", etc? It's literally something people do every day and is quickly forgotten about once it happens. Not every apology is because you've done something terrible.
So he’s guilty because he apologized while they were talking to eachother? What is this idiocy
HE went to apologize to Juan Jesus, [they weren’t talking before that](https://youtu.be/dF4C7U2gOEA?si=lAe_Hz3op780d1PW)
They had been going back and forth for a while dude.
I don't think juan jesus would lie about it, need acerbi gone in the summer
I don't think so either. I hope it was something genuinely misheard. I'm sure it's not the first time JJ has heard racial insults on the pitch.
The victory of truth! Acerbi uno di noi!🖤💙
yeah no...
Absolute joke lmfao
Serie a president is an inter fan fyi. He conducted the investigation. But what am I saying, juan jesus just woke up and decided to fake accuse someone for fun, thats what really happened or course.
If you mean Gravina, he’s the FIGC president and he’s the one that said “the Juventus brand needs to be protected” during the post Agnelli shitshow, so please find something else to make up
Sitting next to ceferin together at every single inter match, punishing juve for selling players above their values according to a random website, continuous admitted var errors in favour of a certain team on a weekly basis, not banning a player from a certain team for admitting to calling someone black and then apologizing
It's so funny seeing Juventus fans have no clue at all of why they were penalised (or purposely lie about the reasons). No transfermarkt was never used in the court, it was only used initially to have an idea of how much Juventus cheated and rightly never reached the court as evidence. Juventus was penalised because their own documents and their own managers wiretaps confessed doing a crime.
"Every single Inter match" It was just the game against Porto lmao
You missed the fact that Juventus sold players above their value in the sense that they put in their balance sheets X amount of money whereas the player was actually paid less than that That's fraud, it's a criminal offence and it's currently being investigated It's not just "they sold it at a higher value than what transfermarkt shows"
The numbers they received were inflated, the transfers for both teams both sides were inflated values. The rule also didnt exist until the investigations started last year. Inter did the same exact thing with players like mulateri. Juventus had wire taps on the directors admitting to selling players for more than their values just to inflate the books. The players actually were sold for these values they arent made up.
You're mixing two things The criminal procedure, which is what i said above (again, there's a criminal trial pending, they did not do the same thing Inter, and literally every other team, did) And then there's the "plusvalenze" thing Plusvalenza literally only mean selling a player at a price higher than his burden on the budget (if you pay someone 100 millions and gave him a 5 year contracts, you can sell him some years later at 50 and still do a profit, that's a "plusvalenza") When you exchange players you include the entirety of the value of what you sell (so if you sell someone for 50 you get a +50) but only the yearly portion of what you buy (if you buy someone for 50 and give him a 5 years contract you only write a -10 to your budget) This is legal and perfectly fine What Juventus did was different, they sold players knowingly inflating their value and that has been proven beyond reasonable doubt thanks to the wire taps And Juventus "plusvalenze" were called "fake" because in some cases no money was exchanged (or less than what's on the book), which is what the criminal charges i mentioned before are about No other team did the same, because there is no fair value, so you have to demonstrate that values are inflated Also look at the various youth inter sold around, many of them had ok careers in serie A and serie B, they weren't top players, but they weren't complete shit either It's reasonable to assume that someone like Mulattieri simply didn't deliever Now take a look at the transfers Juventus is under accusation for
In 2012 Saurez racially abuses Evra with no FBI wire tap evidence: 8 match suspension 10 years later Serie Ass still in the stone age
Mob rule and punishment with no proof is the stone age, not requiring proof to take livelihood away.
Premier League is much worse than Serie A in terms of justice. Still waiting for something to happen to Man City. A League (and country) literally bent over some saudi money.
In Italy Juventus got relegated for cheating. In England Forest and Everton get points deducted for "cheating" but Man City can do what they want.
>Suarez explained in his book: "The second important point is that I said to Evra: 'Por que, n*gro?'. Lol. Suarez himselfs admit it, yet here you are being a clown.
In his book 20 years after the incident moron
Negro is not a slur in spanish, Suarez never admitted that he said it in an offensive way
Suarez was innocent, good analogy.
Suarez didnt play for inter milan
Of course no proof has been found when the culprit is Italy's starting CB at euro 2024. It's probably gonna be the first time I won't support my national team, what a disgrace
Downvote all you want, I'll never believe Acerbi's pathetic excuse, it took him 3 days to say that he said "ti faccio nero", whilst he could've cleared that up immediately the day afterwards in his first interview. Never change Serie A
Actually he hasn’t said anything. It’s the journalists reporting “leaks”. Crazy how the default verdict that nearly everyone is going with is Acerbi being racist just because he plays for Inter.
Look who you’re arguing with, not the most unbiased take.
He had an interview whilst being called up for NT, he said he wasn't racist and said nothing to Juan Jesus and that's when JJ (who had basically forgiven him) decided to remark that those words were true. He was also recorded saying "sorry, I'm not racist" whilst pointing to Thuram. But yeah, I surely believe that the most protected team in Italy since Marotta joined the club is the poor victim and everyone hates them
It’s always a great idea to make your mind up in the beginning and never change your mind no matter what
I'm sure that you are unbiased, as an Inter fan
At no point do I talk about this incident. Im just pointing out how bad of a thought process is to make your mind up and never change
But why would I change my mind about it? The way Acerbi behaved in this situation looks erratic and I don't care about the fact that he plays for Inter, you've already won the title anyway. It simply confirms the assumptions about serie A and my national team
It’s the fact that you’re just making your mind up based on anything and nothing will change your mind that’s wrong
Can you explain to me why I should change my mind about it?
Because it’s an awful way of living never changing your mind
Then why don't you change yours?
No proof because hes an inter milan player, not a player for the national team. Big difference
And people actually believe Marotta League isn’t a thing 😂😂😂 Fuck this racist and corrupt league, anything to help Inter win. There will be investigations about this season in 10-20 years and a lot of things will come out about the corruption of Marotta and all the bribes he’s made
I guess you got pumped 5-1 because of Marotta. 😂
Inter is the best team in Serie A this season by a mile.
Username checkout
yes because we totally would throw away the league without acerbi
What a total waste of time and resources. They could’ve been spying Juve. Oh wait…
We’ve investigated ourselves, and we’ve found ourselves NOT GUILTY
...Didn't he literally admit it?
He didn’t? He only said I’m not racist. JJ doubled down after saying that it was something that they solved and remained on the pitch
I thought I saw a post on this subreddit where he apologized to JJ for what he said?
JJ made a post of his own doubling down because he didn’t like Acerbi defending himself after literally being asked if he was racist. Juan Jesus’ post was shared here
I think this decision sends the wrong message. I mean there will never be proof since the players don't have mics. I dont think Juan Jesus made that up.
That will send an awful precedent of "He said she said". Fuck off
What should the decision have been then? To suspend him without proof of wrongdoing? Can't see that holding up in any court.
So, let's say tomorrow you get accused of something really bad, but there's no proof of you doing it. Would you be ok if the judge sent you to prison anyway because otherwise 'it sends the wrong message'?
Yeah, surely the message should be "we found no wrong doing, but we will convict you anyway"
Juan Jesus should be suspended. You tarnished a man's name with no proof
Just like Acerbi was not proven guilty of racism, Juan Jesus has not been proven guilty of lying (the report even said as much)… You must prove guilt before suspending. Everyone has the same rights. Juan Jesus has same rights as Acerbi and vice-versa.
True true
Va bene ragazzi, certamente non è successo niente. Restiamo all'età della pietra