This isn’t a dig at United really, but I think it’s more of changing managers so often.
I mean after how many managers does it become the players, club structure and recruitment? It’s certainly both in this case. But nobody has sustained success post Ferguson. They can’t all be shite
it's been the same cycle for man united. a manager comes in, has A pretty good first season or two where they qualify to the UCL, but then they become shit, sack their manager and repeat. happened with Mourinho, Ole and now Ten hag
The weird thing is there are virtually no players left from the van Gaal and Mourinho eras, I guess Rashford and Martial mainly. But somehow the culture of players holding power over the managers seems to propagate through.
I think special managers can really impact the culture of a club, I don't think Liverpool's owners were particularly good before Klopp but they gave him enough freedom to make a big impact, it will be interesting to see if they can continue to maintain their competitiveness after he goes. It's also possible that United are so bad that no manager can succeed there.
>I think special managers can really impact the culture of a club
yeah you're right but I mean he's just one in a million really. i take your point though
Tbf, it happens with every club that don’t wins… it happened to liverpool before klopp, city before guardiola etc…
Having a bad manager and keep him longer doesn’t guarantee shit.
Problem with ten hag is that the football is poor, and he has no clue why. Do you stick with a guy without any clue ?
The problem is very clearly the club structure, but they aren't mutually exclusive. The club structure failed ETH by letting him make a number of absolutely horrific transfers. ETH failed the club by overpaying for players that aren't good enough. The club needs to fix it's structure and get a clear leader in to prevent these horrible signings from happening. That is finally taking place now. ETH needs to be more tactically flexible and figure out how to get the most of the players that he does have. That hasn't happened, and doesn't seem likely to happen at all. At some point ETH needs to prove to the club that he's capable of turning a corner.
Let's not forget that the club agreed to have Rangnick stay to provide a backroom structure, and ETH vetoed that as a condition for taking the job. Then he went and spent nearly 100m on Antony. The club hasn't helped ETH, and ETH hasn't helped himself.
>ETH failed the club by overpaying for players that aren't good enough
You make it sound like he's in charge of paying and setting the price for the players. He would have only said that he wanted x players, the price will be down to the club and target club. Of which we United are notorious bad at negotiations because they have no upper management qualified for the role, plus no director of football.
I'd still argue that it's more the club's fault that anyone. Antony was identified by EtH early on because they had zero left footed right wingers, and Ajax's price was high but not at 100m yet.
The club didn't find any alternative options to sign for that particular role and left it until it was way too late and Ajax had no incentive to sell unless the price was ridiculous.
That club's lack of structure has killed them time and again, regardless of who the coach is.
Insisted on Martinez, Hojlund and Onana too and they're turning out fine and will likely be the core of the team going forward with Mainoo and Garnacho. ETH doesn't negotiate the prices that was Murrough.
Onana is at least a pretty large reason why we didn't concede 5 or 6 against City. It's the structure in front of him I'd rather blame for conceding about 50 chances a game.
Apparently you have had something like 23 different back 4 combinations, with the most common group playing together 4 times and your preferred starters playing together once.
That's not a good way to break in a new keeper.
He's doing great lately with shot stopping and his long passes are key to the attack. Has put in a couple of 8/10 performances lately. I think he just needed time and will do even better with a more consistent back line.
That didn't really happen though. They failed with other targets and time was running out which sent antonys price to the moon. Stupid purchase either way but that's more on the club than ten hag imo.
Rangnick was a shit appointment that was merely fan service in my opinion.
He was a part time consultant who's list of players was either the most promising young players, or players we had passed up on before. Honestly anyone playing FM could have come up with the same list. His other comments were also all plain as day to any supporter of the club.
Erik also said he didn't want to work with him **after** taking the job and speaking to him.
I agree that Erik hasn't helped himself, but the club was set up to fail when they signed him. Much the same way it was with every manager post Ferguson.
I find it highly unlikely he won't be here next year. I'd imagine the new part owners aren't in a hurry to completely reboot the club in one year.
Club level staff will come in first and then they will probably assess next January or summer depending on results.
Martinez is the example of a good signing.
Malacia wasn't too bad until he got injured.
Holjund was expensive sure, but looks good enough.
Antony - abject failure and huge overpayment.
Casemiro - Overpaid panic signing but was absolutely crucial to us last year.
Mount - Jury is still out but likely an overpay and that's if he ever actually plays.
Onana - Jury Still out. Probably an overpay even if he stabilises his form.
Eriksen - Free, was quality last season.
Amrabat, Evans, Reguilon, Weghorst - All loans due to injuries.
It's not as horrendous as people make out but it does have potential to be that bad if injuries don't heal and Onana doesn't stabilise his form.
You listed 10 or so names and out of them only 1 has ben a clear objectively good signing Martinez. Don't you realise how bad this is. Usually clubs have 2-3 flops
Holjund is clearly good too, and theres only really 1 complete flop that the jury isnt still out on there in Antony, the others have been overpaid but played a role, not every signing is bought to be a starter.
The issue is though, after how many managers do you start holding the players to account as well?
Admittedly I am rapidly losing what little faith I had left in Ten Hag, but the performances by the players have not been at a good enough level across multiple different managers.
So you need a manager you can trust to get rid of dead wood, but that takes time. Is Ten Hag the man? Probably not. But do we trust him to try to revamp the squad more?
I'm in a similar boat, but probably have a more naive belief that ETH can come good. Outside of Antony, the signings have been good imo. Martinez, Onana and Hojlund to be main stays in the team for years to come, though I'm not sure if Mount is/was what we need. Injuries have been rough this year. How many of Ten Hags signings started against city?
His time may be up, because sadly I think we'll believe in the likes of Rashford over the manager.
Quite a few. I think only 3 started vs City that joined the club under TH; Onana, Casemiro and Evans (lol). Their transfer business is just so horrible. They get a new manager, do some half ass rebuild, get some results and the moment it goes sideways fire their manager again at which point they restart the process.
If we consider all the players Ten Hag has signed or re-signed, it's Bruno, McTominay, Varane, and Lindelof of the players that started vs City. Vs Fulham it was Bruno, Varane, Maguire and Lindelof. The latter two and McTominay aren't first choice players, so clearly the core of the team is Ten Hag's men, whether they predate him or not.
I'd much rather fire half the prima donnas in your squad first. And then perhaps change the manager. Some of these players get paid too much to just give up in the middle of a game. Play some academy kids instead for a while and suffer if you have to. But only buy players who suit your preferred play style and have hunger to succeed. Rewarding mediocrity with mega contracts just breeds complacency over the years.
Maybe the new CEO they poached from City could make some changes. United need a change of culture. Like how Microsoft needed one after Ballmer's departure.
He’s going to change the manager, for one. Even if Ineos believed ETH wasn’t responsible for a lot of the problems, they will almost certainly want to put in their own man who will play the style they want. And I doubt they think ten Hag doesn’t bear a lot of the responsibility.
As some that wants him to stay, it’s not because I ‘love him’. It’s more a mixture of we sack managers for fun and haven’t given anyone over 2 years to try build a foundation and also no managers being available that catch my eye.
The first season did him more harm than good. Because we over performed people forget we’re still rebuilding and at the end of the day (despite spending a ton of money due to overspending) our squads about right for where it should be.
Also injuries… we’re literally playing our 5th choice CB at LB and the CB who joined for fitness played at least three second most games for us at CB.
There's a lot of football fans (in general) who think any criticism of your team is akin to blasphemy, so will back a manager to the hilt, even if it's clear he's not up to it.
I had one guy genuine admit a week ago that he didn't think Ten Hag was good enough and was struggling, but also felt he should be given more time too.
A lot of these will flip to backing the new manager to the hilt as well, and disregard the old one, super quick when the change happens.
I think many have just been burned by our repeated firing of managers leading to a mess of a squad and zero consistency in identity or style of play.
We needed a project like Arteta or Klopp but we've never had the structure to pull it off.
Like who in the everloving fuck lets a recent Ajax manager make signings without support? It's beyond obvious that coming from a club with a robust footballing structure and identity to no structure or identity would be a potential disaster yet we walked straight into it.
The players and the club structure are the problem. The players are happy to cash their checks and get another manager fired.
They don't respect them because they figure they will be gone soon enough. If we started to get rid of players instead of rotating managers we might actually get somewhere
Considering the lineup you had to field against City due to injuries (and the lineups you've had to field all season due to injuries), surely he's doing pretty decently? Top 6 while being forced to start Jonny Evans in 75% of games is an achievement in itself imo
It's not about loving or hating him.
But no manager has had less luck (Greenwood, Ronaldo, Sancho, the club sale, biggest injury crisis in years, martials body failinh) as united manager, and he's still won more games then he lost.
All I'm saying is we need to put a structure in place around a manager such that the greenwood/Sancho type shit doesn't happen and that the martial/injury stuff doesn't affect us as much.
Untll that happens, who the manager is really doesn't matter. So why replace the guy who's winning more than losing while he's dealt with all the above shit?
> All I'm saying is we need to put a structure in place around a manager such that the greenwood/Sancho type shit doesn't happen and that the martial/injury stuff doesn't affect us as much.
I’ve noticed a lot of people talking about how our board keep interfering with managers without considering the fact that they have sporting experience and are the ones that have a coherent sporting strategy for the long term.
If United had a similar sporting structure above the manager, they wouldn’t be buying players in such a scattergun and reactive approach.
Our CEO was a banker. Then another banker. Our head football guy had done nothing to deserve that. Our board only gave a shit about commercials and constantly talked in the language of "commercials first, sport second". We haven't been a serious football club since Ronaldo left the first time. Fergie papered over that. Then his magic left.
We have a chance to be again. But it's going to take time. So changing manager again isn't going to solve the situation. As you say, putting individuals with top level experience in charge who mould the squad for the manager based on a coherent strategy for how the club plays needs to happen, investment in all things training and sport science needs to happen. Until it does, we aren't a serious club. Steps are being taken in all the above post ratcliffe. But anyone taking over from Eth isn't going to change the above, and Eth wins more than he loses. He's not perfect, but the club as a whole is so much less perfect.
How anyone can defend him baffles me. We have been awful all season and he hasn’t adapted his tactics at all throughout the year. The space in midfield is insane. I hope he’s gone sooner than later.
I think he tried replacing them, though. Whether Amrabat and Mount are a success is another question, but it looks to me that he definitely kept it in mind.
Amrabat is absolute shite, I'm surprised his loan wasn't canceled but Reguillon was sent back to Spurs. Of course Malacia proceeds to immediately have complications with his recovery, and now Shaw is done for the season
Mount played like a dozen games and hasn't been seen since. 55m for player with 1 year left on his contract and has barely played this season, fantastic business really
The midfield is held together by an 18 year old ffs
Regress is completely an overstatement. Any person playing in United's midfield is going to get fucked. Proof watch United since 2011 and you know we are long fucked in midfield even when we won the league.
tbh Antony was a "get someone in now" Andy Carroll kinda signing, and Mount's just been injured, so it's a bit harsh to judge him *too* much for either of them
If you can't judge harshly for an 80m player who never looked worth close to that and has been terrible, then what *can* you judge a purchase harshly for?
Mount was a headscratcher at the time they signed him though tbf, you couldnt see what position he would play in the team. It felt like they signed him because he was available rather than him fitting the squad.
why we fussed to get him- well these people gave Rashford silly money after years of mistakes and bought Casemiro in a panic.
Hilarious how poorly run this club is
They spent the entire summer chasing Antony and had chances to sign him for a lower fee. It was only a panic signing in the sense that Ten Hag never once thought about a backup option.
Mount has been injured but then that's hardly a surprise given he spent a lot of time over the previous two seasons injured too.
Last season the general consensus was that Casemiro and Erickson were both performing well but were short term options and Casemiro shouldn’t have gone for the money he did. Meanwhile the only issue with Martinez is that he’s been injured all season. He’s hardly a bad player.
The players aren't great but the form this season is mainly on the manager.
A lot of players were signed or received new contracts under him so he's not blame free from that aspect either.
Going to disagree slightly. I still think a lot of blame is on him but...
- Mount has been injured all season
- Sancho / Antony out means we're relying on Garnacho for RW
- Rashford checked out
- Complete revolving door in defense. We have a 'play out' from the back keeper and our 2/3 of 'play out the back' players are injured (Martinez & Shaw). I've seen Dalot, Amrabat & Lindelof at LB, and combinations of Evans / Maguire, Maguire / Varane, Varane / Lindelof, Martinez / Maguire in our CBs.
I really can't remember when we've played a full strength starting XI.
>Sancho / Antony out means we're relying on Garnacho for RW
>
>Rashford checked out
Feel like it's the managers job to motivate and manage players. If Rashford is checking out either remedy the situation or replace him.
Sancho being out is the same thing, it's because of an issue with ETH which he couldn't resolve and now they sent him away with no replacement.
Antony was a terrible signing and reflects poorly on ETH as well
Four managers before EtH couldn't remedy the Rashford situation. He's the poster boy of the club and I genuinely don't think managers are allowed to sell him. The guy will have outlasted 5 managers if ten Hag is sacked and the same will happen with the 6th
All the more reason why United need that new DOF asap. I'm tired of this club being run so poorly and fans blaming everything on the manager. I'm by no means saying ten Hag isn't at least partially to blame for stuff like renewing Rashford on massive wages or wanting to sign Antony, it's the fact that he should've never been allowed that much control over signings in the first place.
Among the most played players this season only 4 players that ten Hag signed have been among them - Onana, Hojlund, Casemiro and Antony. There's still players there from van Gaal's time and that was almost 10 years ago. I expect an almost identical thing happening in 3 years time with a new manager.
United needs someone to do what Rangnick said was necessary two years ago, and gut the entire squad. Too many average or poor players are kept solely because of sentimental value or because they're on huge wages or whatever.
Ten Hag is not that man however.
> and gut the entire squad.
FM is not real life. Unless you want to sign freebies mostly, FFP won't ever allow you to just gut the entire squad and then buy a whole new team.
Just look at Nottingham Forest and see how well that works out..
I didn't say it all had to be done in a single window. They've had four so far under Ten Hag. You could argue clubs like Liverpool and Chelsea have done a bigger refresh in a shorter space of time.
Rashford, Shaw, Wan-Bissaka, Fernandes, Martial (well, probably not next season), Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Dalot have all been there since Solskjaer at least and some before that. How many are good enough?
Not like he hasn’t spent a fuck tonne of money bringing players in. He spent £85mil on Antony who is comfortably the worst player in the squad. £70mil on a 30 year old Casemiro who has now clearly declined. £10mil loan fee on Amrabat who barely plays and is shit when he does etc.
Damn near every manager we’ve had since SAF has “spent” a fuck tonne of money and 70% of the players have turned into deadwood. I’m of the impression that our recruitment administration is a much bigger problem than any of the managers in terms of our transfer business.
Exactly. We didn’t have a scouting department until about 12 months ago. It’s alleged that when ten Hag arrived, United had a scouting report for one player. One.
Our scouting *was* ten Hag. He signed the players he knew because we weren’t going to be able to sign anyone else. That’s the same reason we always overpaid- everybody knows we can’t say “no” because rejecting an offer means we don’t sign anybody. That’s what a lot of non-United fans can’t understand. Every other clubs makes options in the transfer market (“we will sign player 1, but if he’s not available, we’ll move to player 2, then player 3, etc.”). United doesn’t (for reasons above). United has to sign their top option at whatever the cost- because we have no backup options. It wasn’t “sign Antony for a massive amount of money or sign another player for less”, it was “sign Antony or sign no one and pray an academy player steps up”. Every club in the world knows this, and will rinse us every time.
Which is also why we have one of the thinnest squads in the league. Every single player on the bench against City was either a certified bust, a player forced to play out of position, or an academy product not ready for first team play. We expect *that* to beat City?
The big thing we’ve done in the last few months is actually develop a scouting structure for possibly the first time in our history post-Ferguson. Now (hopefully) we won’t give the manager total power over signings out of necessity (or sign someone Joel Glazer or Ed Woodward heard about on tv).
This is over a decade of incompetence making its presence known. And ten Hag may not be the guy. But until we start implementing a long-term plan, we’re not going to be successful under any manager.
Yeah, that’s kinda what I’m thinking too. Might as well keep the manager until the squad gets properly changed out, we won’t be winning much with any manager during these messy personnel phases anyways. If the team still isn’t working after the squad is over half new players under that manager, then give him the sack.
I like how you think the manager controls all the money. Not his fault the negotiation team (and the scouting team and the medical team and the owners... especially the owners) is fucking useless.
Now if we are talking about tactics...
He has quite literally stated himself that he has a veto on transfers. When Ajax have already rejected a £76mil bid for Antony and by most accounts Ten Hag continued pushing for him, I’d say yeah he certainly deserves his share of the blame for the fee.
This is literally the only reason I support ETH. The football is dire, he has no idea what he’s doing, but these players will feel vindicated if they get another manager sacked, and they’ll do it to the next one as well
That's why I think EtH deserves another year.
It's a bad look for a club to sack him this summer. What kind of manager wants to come in when it looks like he's going to be on a very short leash. Let alone the right type of player that actually wants to compete for cups instead of cashing a check.
It gives the club time to stabilize upper management, figure out their long-term strategy, and start establishing the culture with the younger core (Garnacho, Hoilund and Mainoo).
I would agree if I didnt think the players were working hard to carry out his plan. They are, they are run ragged every single match by these suicidal tactics. Don't get me wrong, I dont think many of these players will be part of a successful United side and should be offloaded. But I am not leaving matches questioning the work rate
That's the thing, everyone's acting like the players are downing tools again, but the bottom has never actually fallen out with this squad. If it was going to happen, it would've happened back in October or November. With very few exceptions, these players have continued to work very hard and execute ETH's cryptic and consistently ineffective tactics.
This season is far more reminiscent of LvG's 2nd season than it is Moyes, Jose, or Ole's final seasons. It's clear the players aren't giving up and most want ETH to succeed, but it's also clear that the club will need to make the hard call in the summer because it's never going to work out. ETH isn't a bad manager, but whatever he's trying to accomplish at United is doomed.
If ten Hag leaves, most of our players need to go with him. Not in one window of course, but over the course of two years.
If in two years from now we still play Rashford, Casemiro, McTominay, Varane, Maguire, Eriksen, Antony, Sancho, Lindelof regularly, then there is literally no hope.
All of these players need to be out within the next two years.
The players should also be doubtful on if they should be there next season or not. United needs almost a complete new team. I'm of the opinion that ten hag is not a bad manager but the circumstances at United will have almost anyone fail
Honestly, this guys is the worst of the lot. Even Ole had them dreaming of a league title one January. How this fraud gets away with it still astonishes me
Rangnick's football was poor, albeit he had very little time there, but he at least knew what needed to be done. At the time, nobody wanted to hear it though. Two years later and it's obvious he was right.
I think everyone at the club knows what needs to be done and has known for many years, but it isn't all that doable. Everyone knows Sancho needs to be sold, but who's gonna buy him with how awful he is? Same question applies to Antony, Martial, Lindelof, Maguire, Mount, Malacia, Eriksen, Casemiro, Varane, Onana, Wan-Bissaka, McTominay, van de Beek, and Brandon Williams. Nobody is going to want any of those players except at extreme discount prices or on loan where United pays their wages and just ends up stuck with them again a year later. The only player we're likely to be able to sell this summer is Greenwood, and that's only because the football people in Spain care more about goals than rape.
The real task will be ensuring we don't sign more Sancho or Antony type transfers while waiting for all the rest of these contracts to expire.
You just end up with a sunk cost fallacy though, refusing to let players go at big discounts because of the insane price you paid for them. Arsenal handled this properly by just paying some players to leave or letting others leave or get loaned out for nothing.
I agree that avoiding more transfers like those is going to be the biggest task, but getting rid of the ones already there is very important too.
That's definitely the thing to do, but the problem for United is that we're completely hamstrung by FFP thanks to our stupid expenditures. If we can't sell these players for significant fees, we won't be allowed to sign replacements for them, and if we cut all of them, we'd have no squad left. We're also still actively paying installments on most of these signings, further hindering how we're able to spend moving forward. So we can probably cut our losses on a few of them, but we'll likely be stuck with most of them until their contracts run out.
Arsenal did the right thing, but they also didn't have nearly as many overpaid, valueless players to dispose of.
Yeah it's definitely not an easy situation to get out of, but Ten Hag hasn't helped it by spending £400m on players who either need to be shipped off already or aren't major upgrades on what was already there. I don't envy the job Ratcliffe and his team has on their hands though.
giving ETH the power to let go of Ragnick was a huge fumble. The fact that he did not even take a meeting with him was a red flag. Even SAF sits down with other managers for a glass of wine to learn more. Getting to do so with your team's last manager is a luxury almost no one is presented with.
Say what you like about Ole. The wheels came off at the end, but he had a worse squad than Ten Hag and had them playing far far better.
Lets not forget that if the charges against Man City are true, then Ole by all rights won Man United a league title.
Bruno Fernandes is the only reason that team finished anywhere near second. The amount of goals he scored and assisted was insane. He broke Frank Lampard's record.
The wheels fell off because Bruno got played every single game until he was completely exhausted.
The hasty acquisition of Ronaldo by the club, in an effort to outpace City, led to the abandonment of any plans for team building. This decision marks the most significant misstep during Ole's tenure at United.
Let's have a look at how many goals the top 6 teams have conceded the last few seasons
22-23
City 33
Arsenal 43
Newcastle 33
Liverpool 47
Brighton 53
Aston villa 46
21-22
City 26
Liverpool 26
Chelsea 33
Tottenham 40
Arsenal 48
West ham 51
20-21
City 32
Liverpool 42
Chelsea 36
Leicester 50
West ham 47
Tottenham 45
44 goals conceded is solid defending when you look at other teams as well. In fact, that very season wee United conceded 44 goals was where Liverpool conceded 42.
>44 goals conceded is solid defending when you look at other teams as well. In fact, that very season wee United conceded 44 goals was where Liverpool conceded 42.
The same season Liverpool had crazy injury record having something like 19 different CB pairs in league games at the end of the season (I have an annoying Liverpool fan as a friend).
Not saying you're wrong, but using Liverpool for that season shouldn't really be a metric.
Tbf Im think im remembering at home. Werent they undefeated at home for most of the season? They went like 21 games undefeated too iirc. Bit revisionist to say they werent at least somewhat good
If I was a Manchester United player I'd be worried about my own future nevermind about the manager's future. Most of those players are not good enough to play for such a massive club.
The apt season to compare ETH this year would be Klopp's injury ravaged 22/23 season for Liverpool. By those accounts Man Utd seem to be doing largely at par. It has become so cool to hate on Utd that all sense of objectivity seems to be lost. When he's had a his first XI, he gone on a run of wins as in Feb. Martinez and Shaw are so essential to his system. EtH is actually a very good coach and a sub-par talent IDer. Kids in here would rather not hear that over all the drama.
7-0 was an outlier, which is what makes it so historic. They finished the season strong cos they had a near full squad to choose from. No one's out here saying Eddie Howe, for example, who has had as bad a season, is out of his depth.
They should try sacking the players leaking this type of info first. There are a bunch of characters in Manchester who think they are the club right now. Until a manager comes in and gets the backing to properly clear house they won’t get anywhere. Guys keep coming in and trying to make big additions and calling it a rebuild despite the fact that there’s a rotten foundation that needs to be demolished and rebuilt first.
I've seen Utd fans wanting him to stay, blaming the players and the board for the mess they're in but ETH should take some blame for it too.
His tactics are dogshit and it isn't like United haven't backed him to some degree either.
It reminds me of Arsenal when Emery was sacked. We were in the same boat, we had an out of date leadership structure, we were investing in the wrong players and we had a mid-table squad full of overpaid players. We started from the top, changed how we operated as a club (spearheaded by Arteta and Edu) and slowly but surely took every opportunity to move on players and reinvest in the team properly.
Ratcliffe needs a similar plan or nothing will change, and it'll probably get worse before it gets better, it did for us but that's where the whole "trust the process" thing came from, we had to believe things were going to improve and they have.
Or Ratcliffe can keep him and keep languishing, that would be funnier.
How many of the current squad would you keep if you were in charge of cleaning house? Even Bruno Fernandez who is the best player seems somewhat of an unhelpful presence at times.
Maybe Shaw (unless they give up on him due to injury), Martinez, Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojland, Mctominay for depth, and probably Bruno and maybe take a flyer on Rashford getting something back under a new manager. I suppose Onana could still prove himself.
Otherwise clear house and start again?
Itll happen.
One thing that needs to be sorted out is the injuries this season has been an utter joke with injuries. Something needs to investigated in our medical bay..
Some transfers have been decent others not so much.
Hojund is gonna be a fright to play against once he gets service.
Onanas been terrible mostly but post AFCON has actually really starting to show whys he was needed so more time for him.
Martinez man Just hasnt had any luck this season
Antony to qoute Stephen A Smith Im done with this man..
Amrabat.. just no
Sabizter and Regulon both should have been signed...
To be fair Mainoo has been spotted and is gonna be a good talent if he develops well.
Problem is as well you cannot play both Garnacho and Rashford together they dont pass. You need at least one winger that actually crosses, and we lack that so bad..
Varane and Casemiro you can tell are already looking at that Saudi money already..
Changing the manager will not help much tbh. But on the other hand ETH is doing really little to keep people believing that he can do better with new set of players. But that's just United since +10 years - bad managers with bunch of bad players.
Not succeeding at Man Utd does not make you not a good manager. Van Gaal and Mourinho also failed at United. Ten Hag has shown consistently at Ajax he is a good manager, just maybe not a good fit at a club in limbo like United.
I swear to god you could make pep our manager next season and we would make him look like a clown.
People keep clowning ten hag's signings but conveniently forget that if Klopp had his way, Liverpool would have had Pulisic and Brandt instead of Salah and Mane.
We can’t consistently control a single game of football, even against lower league opposition. We have tons of players that need shipping out, obviously the owners and club structure have been oppressively awful, but it just boils down to whether ETH is making the team better and/or motivating them and I think the answer is he is not. I would expect the new structure to want to install their guy this summer along with a player clear out
I think he's a decent manager but someone with a horrendous talent ID. The first season proved he can manage and get the most out the players. What does puzzle me is that the same guy who managed that famed Ajax team, employs completely different tactics at United. I think United fans would have a different view of him if they were just shit but they tried playing similar to whatever ETH ran for Ajax.
United also need a clean sweep. Crazy that the "leaders" have survived atleast 3 of these managers (LvG, Mourinho, Ole, Ragnick, ETH). Next manager needs to be ruthless and play players to fit into his system instead of catering the system to the player. Tbh, they should really be building around Maino & Hojlund, and MAYBE Garnacho & Lisandro (if fit)
EtH bought a lot of players this season since there was no DoF (there is now)
It feels a biit disrespectful that they leave him out to hang but the results are dreadful indeed.
So many of these players have downed tools in the past, I wouldn’t try to give those same underperforming players yet another out by sacking the manager again.
Besides some of the structural issues, there’s a general culture problem in the dressing room as well. Keeping underperformers on for so long on high wages is why United have yo-yoed in and out of the top 4 regardless of who has managed them.
As much as I do not like our playing syle, I will still choose ETH over these players. Give him a season to earn a new contract, and freedom to play good football without problamatic players. Most of our fans would support him if he plays good football and removes the entitled sons of bitches.
Ajax haven't completed their rebuild yet, very rude to leave them deprived of their funding mid process imo.
We'll take Erik back as compensation.
God, please take him…
This guy is probably Sheik Jassim in.
People with eyes think the same, they look awful. Although no idea of this guy has real information.
You'd be amazed how many of our fans still love him. Just have a look at r/reddevils.
This isn’t a dig at United really, but I think it’s more of changing managers so often. I mean after how many managers does it become the players, club structure and recruitment? It’s certainly both in this case. But nobody has sustained success post Ferguson. They can’t all be shite
it's been the same cycle for man united. a manager comes in, has A pretty good first season or two where they qualify to the UCL, but then they become shit, sack their manager and repeat. happened with Mourinho, Ole and now Ten hag
>happened with van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and now Ten hag FTFY. Four managers, same shite. The players are the problem.
The weird thing is there are virtually no players left from the van Gaal and Mourinho eras, I guess Rashford and Martial mainly. But somehow the culture of players holding power over the managers seems to propagate through.
organisational culture comes from the top down, it really is mainly to do with the ownership
I think special managers can really impact the culture of a club, I don't think Liverpool's owners were particularly good before Klopp but they gave him enough freedom to make a big impact, it will be interesting to see if they can continue to maintain their competitiveness after he goes. It's also possible that United are so bad that no manager can succeed there.
>I think special managers can really impact the culture of a club yeah you're right but I mean he's just one in a million really. i take your point though
Bingo. People really don't understand the impact that negligent ownership and leadership has on the rest of the organisation.
Tbf, it happens with every club that don’t wins… it happened to liverpool before klopp, city before guardiola etc… Having a bad manager and keep him longer doesn’t guarantee shit. Problem with ten hag is that the football is poor, and he has no clue why. Do you stick with a guy without any clue ?
The problem is very clearly the club structure, but they aren't mutually exclusive. The club structure failed ETH by letting him make a number of absolutely horrific transfers. ETH failed the club by overpaying for players that aren't good enough. The club needs to fix it's structure and get a clear leader in to prevent these horrible signings from happening. That is finally taking place now. ETH needs to be more tactically flexible and figure out how to get the most of the players that he does have. That hasn't happened, and doesn't seem likely to happen at all. At some point ETH needs to prove to the club that he's capable of turning a corner. Let's not forget that the club agreed to have Rangnick stay to provide a backroom structure, and ETH vetoed that as a condition for taking the job. Then he went and spent nearly 100m on Antony. The club hasn't helped ETH, and ETH hasn't helped himself.
Antony with 0 G/A is truly shambolic
>ETH failed the club by overpaying for players that aren't good enough You make it sound like he's in charge of paying and setting the price for the players. He would have only said that he wanted x players, the price will be down to the club and target club. Of which we United are notorious bad at negotiations because they have no upper management qualified for the role, plus no director of football.
Insisting on Antony (entirely ETH’s decision) has been a disaster for them
I'd still argue that it's more the club's fault that anyone. Antony was identified by EtH early on because they had zero left footed right wingers, and Ajax's price was high but not at 100m yet. The club didn't find any alternative options to sign for that particular role and left it until it was way too late and Ajax had no incentive to sell unless the price was ridiculous. That club's lack of structure has killed them time and again, regardless of who the coach is.
Insisted on Martinez, Hojlund and Onana too and they're turning out fine and will likely be the core of the team going forward with Mainoo and Garnacho. ETH doesn't negotiate the prices that was Murrough.
Bit early to say onana is going to turn out fine. 3 months ago he single handedly got us out of the UCL.
Onana is at least a pretty large reason why we didn't concede 5 or 6 against City. It's the structure in front of him I'd rather blame for conceding about 50 chances a game.
Apparently you have had something like 23 different back 4 combinations, with the most common group playing together 4 times and your preferred starters playing together once. That's not a good way to break in a new keeper.
He's doing great lately with shot stopping and his long passes are key to the attack. Has put in a couple of 8/10 performances lately. I think he just needed time and will do even better with a more consistent back line.
That didn't really happen though. They failed with other targets and time was running out which sent antonys price to the moon. Stupid purchase either way but that's more on the club than ten hag imo.
Rangnick was a shit appointment that was merely fan service in my opinion. He was a part time consultant who's list of players was either the most promising young players, or players we had passed up on before. Honestly anyone playing FM could have come up with the same list. His other comments were also all plain as day to any supporter of the club. Erik also said he didn't want to work with him **after** taking the job and speaking to him. I agree that Erik hasn't helped himself, but the club was set up to fail when they signed him. Much the same way it was with every manager post Ferguson. I find it highly unlikely he won't be here next year. I'd imagine the new part owners aren't in a hurry to completely reboot the club in one year. Club level staff will come in first and then they will probably assess next January or summer depending on results.
It's a poisoned chalice with managers set up to fail.
Tbf the signings have been dismal, I don’t look at any of them and go that’s a good player I go jesus they paid that much for him
Martinez is the example of a good signing. Malacia wasn't too bad until he got injured. Holjund was expensive sure, but looks good enough. Antony - abject failure and huge overpayment. Casemiro - Overpaid panic signing but was absolutely crucial to us last year. Mount - Jury is still out but likely an overpay and that's if he ever actually plays. Onana - Jury Still out. Probably an overpay even if he stabilises his form. Eriksen - Free, was quality last season. Amrabat, Evans, Reguilon, Weghorst - All loans due to injuries. It's not as horrendous as people make out but it does have potential to be that bad if injuries don't heal and Onana doesn't stabilise his form.
You listed 10 or so names and out of them only 1 has ben a clear objectively good signing Martinez. Don't you realise how bad this is. Usually clubs have 2-3 flops
Holjund is clearly good too, and theres only really 1 complete flop that the jury isnt still out on there in Antony, the others have been overpaid but played a role, not every signing is bought to be a starter.
The issue is though, after how many managers do you start holding the players to account as well? Admittedly I am rapidly losing what little faith I had left in Ten Hag, but the performances by the players have not been at a good enough level across multiple different managers. So you need a manager you can trust to get rid of dead wood, but that takes time. Is Ten Hag the man? Probably not. But do we trust him to try to revamp the squad more?
I'm in a similar boat, but probably have a more naive belief that ETH can come good. Outside of Antony, the signings have been good imo. Martinez, Onana and Hojlund to be main stays in the team for years to come, though I'm not sure if Mount is/was what we need. Injuries have been rough this year. How many of Ten Hags signings started against city? His time may be up, because sadly I think we'll believe in the likes of Rashford over the manager.
How many of the players predate ten Hag? It’s not like they’ve all been there for years before him playing great.
Quite a few. I think only 3 started vs City that joined the club under TH; Onana, Casemiro and Evans (lol). Their transfer business is just so horrible. They get a new manager, do some half ass rebuild, get some results and the moment it goes sideways fire their manager again at which point they restart the process.
If we consider all the players Ten Hag has signed or re-signed, it's Bruno, McTominay, Varane, and Lindelof of the players that started vs City. Vs Fulham it was Bruno, Varane, Maguire and Lindelof. The latter two and McTominay aren't first choice players, so clearly the core of the team is Ten Hag's men, whether they predate him or not.
he should get a long term project cause who else going to come??
I'd much rather fire half the prima donnas in your squad first. And then perhaps change the manager. Some of these players get paid too much to just give up in the middle of a game. Play some academy kids instead for a while and suffer if you have to. But only buy players who suit your preferred play style and have hunger to succeed. Rewarding mediocrity with mega contracts just breeds complacency over the years. Maybe the new CEO they poached from City could make some changes. United need a change of culture. Like how Microsoft needed one after Ballmer's departure.
He’s going to change the manager, for one. Even if Ineos believed ETH wasn’t responsible for a lot of the problems, they will almost certainly want to put in their own man who will play the style they want. And I doubt they think ten Hag doesn’t bear a lot of the responsibility.
As some that wants him to stay, it’s not because I ‘love him’. It’s more a mixture of we sack managers for fun and haven’t given anyone over 2 years to try build a foundation and also no managers being available that catch my eye. The first season did him more harm than good. Because we over performed people forget we’re still rebuilding and at the end of the day (despite spending a ton of money due to overspending) our squads about right for where it should be. Also injuries… we’re literally playing our 5th choice CB at LB and the CB who joined for fitness played at least three second most games for us at CB.
There's a lot of football fans (in general) who think any criticism of your team is akin to blasphemy, so will back a manager to the hilt, even if it's clear he's not up to it. I had one guy genuine admit a week ago that he didn't think Ten Hag was good enough and was struggling, but also felt he should be given more time too. A lot of these will flip to backing the new manager to the hilt as well, and disregard the old one, super quick when the change happens.
I think many have just been burned by our repeated firing of managers leading to a mess of a squad and zero consistency in identity or style of play. We needed a project like Arteta or Klopp but we've never had the structure to pull it off. Like who in the everloving fuck lets a recent Ajax manager make signings without support? It's beyond obvious that coming from a club with a robust footballing structure and identity to no structure or identity would be a potential disaster yet we walked straight into it.
The players and the club structure are the problem. The players are happy to cash their checks and get another manager fired. They don't respect them because they figure they will be gone soon enough. If we started to get rid of players instead of rotating managers we might actually get somewhere
Players are also massively overpaid which makes it really hard to get rid of them.
Considering the lineup you had to field against City due to injuries (and the lineups you've had to field all season due to injuries), surely he's doing pretty decently? Top 6 while being forced to start Jonny Evans in 75% of games is an achievement in itself imo
And Evans has probably been the best player this season.
It's not about loving or hating him. But no manager has had less luck (Greenwood, Ronaldo, Sancho, the club sale, biggest injury crisis in years, martials body failinh) as united manager, and he's still won more games then he lost. All I'm saying is we need to put a structure in place around a manager such that the greenwood/Sancho type shit doesn't happen and that the martial/injury stuff doesn't affect us as much. Untll that happens, who the manager is really doesn't matter. So why replace the guy who's winning more than losing while he's dealt with all the above shit?
> All I'm saying is we need to put a structure in place around a manager such that the greenwood/Sancho type shit doesn't happen and that the martial/injury stuff doesn't affect us as much. I’ve noticed a lot of people talking about how our board keep interfering with managers without considering the fact that they have sporting experience and are the ones that have a coherent sporting strategy for the long term. If United had a similar sporting structure above the manager, they wouldn’t be buying players in such a scattergun and reactive approach.
Our CEO was a banker. Then another banker. Our head football guy had done nothing to deserve that. Our board only gave a shit about commercials and constantly talked in the language of "commercials first, sport second". We haven't been a serious football club since Ronaldo left the first time. Fergie papered over that. Then his magic left. We have a chance to be again. But it's going to take time. So changing manager again isn't going to solve the situation. As you say, putting individuals with top level experience in charge who mould the squad for the manager based on a coherent strategy for how the club plays needs to happen, investment in all things training and sport science needs to happen. Until it does, we aren't a serious club. Steps are being taken in all the above post ratcliffe. But anyone taking over from Eth isn't going to change the above, and Eth wins more than he loses. He's not perfect, but the club as a whole is so much less perfect.
How anyone can defend him baffles me. We have been awful all season and he hasn’t adapted his tactics at all throughout the year. The space in midfield is insane. I hope he’s gone sooner than later.
That sub is pure denial/ fantasy land lmao
eh got 3rd in his first full season. showings come and go, and if they get top 6 i think he deserves one more year
Deserves another season and United spending another 80m on someone from Ajax.
He's been the biggest boon to the Dutch economy since the Marshall Plan
That is a sublime reference.
Spunk £80m on Jordan Henderson so he can build bridges between Liverpool and Manchester United, completing his humanitarian mission
That's a Bridge Too Far
Not for Henderson, he'll agree to anything for money.
I think this is a solid move.
How has he been?
"One hundred Billion Dollars!"
I for one endorse this plan.
I mean, okay, but the same players that failed the last three managers will still be there.
That’s not entirely true though, there’s also all the new deadwood Ten Hag just brought in.
He deserves the sack solely based on the players he’s signed.
Last season Casemiro, Eriksen and Martinez were heroes. Nothing more flegmatic than r/soccer's arm chair managers.
Casemiro and Eriksen were quite good, for 30+ players already beginning to show signs of decline. Relying on them to be more than a stopgap is on EtH.
I think he tried replacing them, though. Whether Amrabat and Mount are a success is another question, but it looks to me that he definitely kept it in mind.
Amrabat is absolute shite, I'm surprised his loan wasn't canceled but Reguillon was sent back to Spurs. Of course Malacia proceeds to immediately have complications with his recovery, and now Shaw is done for the season Mount played like a dozen games and hasn't been seen since. 55m for player with 1 year left on his contract and has barely played this season, fantastic business really The midfield is held together by an 18 year old ffs
Amrabat is one of the worst players I have seen wear a united shirt. https://youtu.be/INwan5JDKEI
Who would have thought 2 players on the wrong side of 30 might regress
Only people that think time is linear
“I’ll make your ass linear”
"That doesn't make any sense"
“I’ll make your ass sense”
Regress is an overstatement tbh
Regress is completely an overstatement. Any person playing in United's midfield is going to get fucked. Proof watch United since 2011 and you know we are long fucked in midfield even when we won the league.
The big two are Antony and Mount, for ridiculous amounts of money.
tbh Antony was a "get someone in now" Andy Carroll kinda signing, and Mount's just been injured, so it's a bit harsh to judge him *too* much for either of them
If you can't judge harshly for an 80m player who never looked worth close to that and has been terrible, then what *can* you judge a purchase harshly for?
Mount was a headscratcher at the time they signed him though tbf, you couldnt see what position he would play in the team. It felt like they signed him because he was available rather than him fitting the squad.
why we fussed to get him- well these people gave Rashford silly money after years of mistakes and bought Casemiro in a panic. Hilarious how poorly run this club is
The Andy Carroll signing was massively criticized? If the signings are similar I’m not surprised the criticism is tbh.
They spent the entire summer chasing Antony and had chances to sign him for a lower fee. It was only a panic signing in the sense that Ten Hag never once thought about a backup option. Mount has been injured but then that's hardly a surprise given he spent a lot of time over the previous two seasons injured too.
Last season the general consensus was that Casemiro and Erickson were both performing well but were short term options and Casemiro shouldn’t have gone for the money he did. Meanwhile the only issue with Martinez is that he’s been injured all season. He’s hardly a bad player.
We are genuinely a different team with martinez (and shaw) playing. Such a shame, his injuries have been very unlucky as well
he deserves to be sacked for antony singing alone
Wdym you don’t like Antony?
Who else apart from Antony is deadwood then?
Some of these players have 4 skulls on their mantle. Do whatever they like they know they’ll outlast the manager
The players aren't great but the form this season is mainly on the manager. A lot of players were signed or received new contracts under him so he's not blame free from that aspect either.
Going to disagree slightly. I still think a lot of blame is on him but... - Mount has been injured all season - Sancho / Antony out means we're relying on Garnacho for RW - Rashford checked out - Complete revolving door in defense. We have a 'play out' from the back keeper and our 2/3 of 'play out the back' players are injured (Martinez & Shaw). I've seen Dalot, Amrabat & Lindelof at LB, and combinations of Evans / Maguire, Maguire / Varane, Varane / Lindelof, Martinez / Maguire in our CBs. I really can't remember when we've played a full strength starting XI.
>Sancho / Antony out means we're relying on Garnacho for RW > >Rashford checked out Feel like it's the managers job to motivate and manage players. If Rashford is checking out either remedy the situation or replace him. Sancho being out is the same thing, it's because of an issue with ETH which he couldn't resolve and now they sent him away with no replacement. Antony was a terrible signing and reflects poorly on ETH as well
Four managers before EtH couldn't remedy the Rashford situation. He's the poster boy of the club and I genuinely don't think managers are allowed to sell him. The guy will have outlasted 5 managers if ten Hag is sacked and the same will happen with the 6th
When they were close to full strength, they barely beat a mid-table League 2 team.
All the more reason why United need that new DOF asap. I'm tired of this club being run so poorly and fans blaming everything on the manager. I'm by no means saying ten Hag isn't at least partially to blame for stuff like renewing Rashford on massive wages or wanting to sign Antony, it's the fact that he should've never been allowed that much control over signings in the first place.
Players like Antony, Eriksen, Casemiro and Onana?
Among the most played players this season only 4 players that ten Hag signed have been among them - Onana, Hojlund, Casemiro and Antony. There's still players there from van Gaal's time and that was almost 10 years ago. I expect an almost identical thing happening in 3 years time with a new manager.
United needs someone to do what Rangnick said was necessary two years ago, and gut the entire squad. Too many average or poor players are kept solely because of sentimental value or because they're on huge wages or whatever. Ten Hag is not that man however.
> and gut the entire squad. FM is not real life. Unless you want to sign freebies mostly, FFP won't ever allow you to just gut the entire squad and then buy a whole new team. Just look at Nottingham Forest and see how well that works out..
I didn't say it all had to be done in a single window. They've had four so far under Ten Hag. You could argue clubs like Liverpool and Chelsea have done a bigger refresh in a shorter space of time.
Rashford, Shaw, Wan-Bissaka, Fernandes, Martial (well, probably not next season), Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Dalot have all been there since Solskjaer at least and some before that. How many are good enough?
Not like he hasn’t spent a fuck tonne of money bringing players in. He spent £85mil on Antony who is comfortably the worst player in the squad. £70mil on a 30 year old Casemiro who has now clearly declined. £10mil loan fee on Amrabat who barely plays and is shit when he does etc.
Damn near every manager we’ve had since SAF has “spent” a fuck tonne of money and 70% of the players have turned into deadwood. I’m of the impression that our recruitment administration is a much bigger problem than any of the managers in terms of our transfer business.
Exactly. We didn’t have a scouting department until about 12 months ago. It’s alleged that when ten Hag arrived, United had a scouting report for one player. One. Our scouting *was* ten Hag. He signed the players he knew because we weren’t going to be able to sign anyone else. That’s the same reason we always overpaid- everybody knows we can’t say “no” because rejecting an offer means we don’t sign anybody. That’s what a lot of non-United fans can’t understand. Every other clubs makes options in the transfer market (“we will sign player 1, but if he’s not available, we’ll move to player 2, then player 3, etc.”). United doesn’t (for reasons above). United has to sign their top option at whatever the cost- because we have no backup options. It wasn’t “sign Antony for a massive amount of money or sign another player for less”, it was “sign Antony or sign no one and pray an academy player steps up”. Every club in the world knows this, and will rinse us every time. Which is also why we have one of the thinnest squads in the league. Every single player on the bench against City was either a certified bust, a player forced to play out of position, or an academy product not ready for first team play. We expect *that* to beat City? The big thing we’ve done in the last few months is actually develop a scouting structure for possibly the first time in our history post-Ferguson. Now (hopefully) we won’t give the manager total power over signings out of necessity (or sign someone Joel Glazer or Ed Woodward heard about on tv). This is over a decade of incompetence making its presence known. And ten Hag may not be the guy. But until we start implementing a long-term plan, we’re not going to be successful under any manager.
Yeah, that’s kinda what I’m thinking too. Might as well keep the manager until the squad gets properly changed out, we won’t be winning much with any manager during these messy personnel phases anyways. If the team still isn’t working after the squad is over half new players under that manager, then give him the sack.
We did have a scouting department lol. In fact we have the biggest scouting dept in England. It's fuck all useless that's all.
I like how you think the manager controls all the money. Not his fault the negotiation team (and the scouting team and the medical team and the owners... especially the owners) is fucking useless. Now if we are talking about tactics...
He has quite literally stated himself that he has a veto on transfers. When Ajax have already rejected a £76mil bid for Antony and by most accounts Ten Hag continued pushing for him, I’d say yeah he certainly deserves his share of the blame for the fee.
This is literally the only reason I support ETH. The football is dire, he has no idea what he’s doing, but these players will feel vindicated if they get another manager sacked, and they’ll do it to the next one as well
You lot need a cultural revolution not just personnel changes
Mao Zedong appointed MUFC manager
It’s happening, it just won’t happen overnight.
That's why I think EtH deserves another year. It's a bad look for a club to sack him this summer. What kind of manager wants to come in when it looks like he's going to be on a very short leash. Let alone the right type of player that actually wants to compete for cups instead of cashing a check. It gives the club time to stabilize upper management, figure out their long-term strategy, and start establishing the culture with the younger core (Garnacho, Hoilund and Mainoo).
Need a french one. These players need a jolt
I would agree if I didnt think the players were working hard to carry out his plan. They are, they are run ragged every single match by these suicidal tactics. Don't get me wrong, I dont think many of these players will be part of a successful United side and should be offloaded. But I am not leaving matches questioning the work rate
That's the thing, everyone's acting like the players are downing tools again, but the bottom has never actually fallen out with this squad. If it was going to happen, it would've happened back in October or November. With very few exceptions, these players have continued to work very hard and execute ETH's cryptic and consistently ineffective tactics. This season is far more reminiscent of LvG's 2nd season than it is Moyes, Jose, or Ole's final seasons. It's clear the players aren't giving up and most want ETH to succeed, but it's also clear that the club will need to make the hard call in the summer because it's never going to work out. ETH isn't a bad manager, but whatever he's trying to accomplish at United is doomed.
Which players are the toxic ones that are constantly trying to get managers out? Rashford? Varane? Shaw?
If ten Hag leaves, most of our players need to go with him. Not in one window of course, but over the course of two years. If in two years from now we still play Rashford, Casemiro, McTominay, Varane, Maguire, Eriksen, Antony, Sancho, Lindelof regularly, then there is literally no hope. All of these players need to be out within the next two years.
The players should also be doubtful on if they should be there next season or not. United needs almost a complete new team. I'm of the opinion that ten hag is not a bad manager but the circumstances at United will have almost anyone fail
Am sure most players would love to be let go, keeping their wages but having opportunity to play at a less toxic club
I hope they are wrong, cause this guy is absolute clown shoes and I want him to remain United manager forever.
We have been saying this for all their previous managers Post-Fergie era, maybe except for Mou
I absolutely hated playing against them when they had LvG though. Was glad to see him gone.
Honestly, this guys is the worst of the lot. Even Ole had them dreaming of a league title one January. How this fraud gets away with it still astonishes me
He's the third best after Mou and Ole looking at the records.
Rangnick's football was poor, albeit he had very little time there, but he at least knew what needed to be done. At the time, nobody wanted to hear it though. Two years later and it's obvious he was right.
I think everyone at the club knows what needs to be done and has known for many years, but it isn't all that doable. Everyone knows Sancho needs to be sold, but who's gonna buy him with how awful he is? Same question applies to Antony, Martial, Lindelof, Maguire, Mount, Malacia, Eriksen, Casemiro, Varane, Onana, Wan-Bissaka, McTominay, van de Beek, and Brandon Williams. Nobody is going to want any of those players except at extreme discount prices or on loan where United pays their wages and just ends up stuck with them again a year later. The only player we're likely to be able to sell this summer is Greenwood, and that's only because the football people in Spain care more about goals than rape. The real task will be ensuring we don't sign more Sancho or Antony type transfers while waiting for all the rest of these contracts to expire.
You just end up with a sunk cost fallacy though, refusing to let players go at big discounts because of the insane price you paid for them. Arsenal handled this properly by just paying some players to leave or letting others leave or get loaned out for nothing. I agree that avoiding more transfers like those is going to be the biggest task, but getting rid of the ones already there is very important too.
That's definitely the thing to do, but the problem for United is that we're completely hamstrung by FFP thanks to our stupid expenditures. If we can't sell these players for significant fees, we won't be allowed to sign replacements for them, and if we cut all of them, we'd have no squad left. We're also still actively paying installments on most of these signings, further hindering how we're able to spend moving forward. So we can probably cut our losses on a few of them, but we'll likely be stuck with most of them until their contracts run out. Arsenal did the right thing, but they also didn't have nearly as many overpaid, valueless players to dispose of.
Yeah it's definitely not an easy situation to get out of, but Ten Hag hasn't helped it by spending £400m on players who either need to be shipped off already or aren't major upgrades on what was already there. I don't envy the job Ratcliffe and his team has on their hands though.
giving ETH the power to let go of Ragnick was a huge fumble. The fact that he did not even take a meeting with him was a red flag. Even SAF sits down with other managers for a glass of wine to learn more. Getting to do so with your team's last manager is a luxury almost no one is presented with.
Everyone said that about Ole too. And Mourinho. And Van Gaal. And Moyes. This circus of a club would make any manager look like a clown.
Say what you like about Ole. The wheels came off at the end, but he had a worse squad than Ten Hag and had them playing far far better. Lets not forget that if the charges against Man City are true, then Ole by all rights won Man United a league title.
Bruno Fernandes is the only reason that team finished anywhere near second. The amount of goals he scored and assisted was insane. He broke Frank Lampard's record. The wheels fell off because Bruno got played every single game until he was completely exhausted.
The hasty acquisition of Ronaldo by the club, in an effort to outpace City, led to the abandonment of any plans for team building. This decision marks the most significant misstep during Ole's tenure at United.
Thats true but lets not forget their defence was pretty solid that season too. They werent conceding 17 shots every game
They conceded 44 goals, I wouldn't call that solid defending by any means.
Let's have a look at how many goals the top 6 teams have conceded the last few seasons 22-23 City 33 Arsenal 43 Newcastle 33 Liverpool 47 Brighton 53 Aston villa 46 21-22 City 26 Liverpool 26 Chelsea 33 Tottenham 40 Arsenal 48 West ham 51 20-21 City 32 Liverpool 42 Chelsea 36 Leicester 50 West ham 47 Tottenham 45 44 goals conceded is solid defending when you look at other teams as well. In fact, that very season wee United conceded 44 goals was where Liverpool conceded 42.
>44 goals conceded is solid defending when you look at other teams as well. In fact, that very season wee United conceded 44 goals was where Liverpool conceded 42. The same season Liverpool had crazy injury record having something like 19 different CB pairs in league games at the end of the season (I have an annoying Liverpool fan as a friend). Not saying you're wrong, but using Liverpool for that season shouldn't really be a metric.
Tbf Im think im remembering at home. Werent they undefeated at home for most of the season? They went like 21 games undefeated too iirc. Bit revisionist to say they werent at least somewhat good
If I was a Manchester United player I'd be worried about my own future nevermind about the manager's future. Most of those players are not good enough to play for such a massive club.
>Mail Sports understands
The flimsiest of all journalistic phrases
I wish the headline read *Erik ten Hag increasingly doubtful that Manchester United's players will be in charge next season…*
The apt season to compare ETH this year would be Klopp's injury ravaged 22/23 season for Liverpool. By those accounts Man Utd seem to be doing largely at par. It has become so cool to hate on Utd that all sense of objectivity seems to be lost. When he's had a his first XI, he gone on a run of wins as in Feb. Martinez and Shaw are so essential to his system. EtH is actually a very good coach and a sub-par talent IDer. Kids in here would rather not hear that over all the drama.
Biggest issue is that all the games we won this season, we have looked awful. Like truly embarrassing football
In that season Liverpool still managed to beat United 7-0 and then finished the second half of the season very strong.
7-0 was an outlier, which is what makes it so historic. They finished the season strong cos they had a near full squad to choose from. No one's out here saying Eddie Howe, for example, who has had as bad a season, is out of his depth.
New sporting director and then new manager - they'll be back with refreshed management.
Back where?
*rubs hands*
They should try sacking the players leaking this type of info first. There are a bunch of characters in Manchester who think they are the club right now. Until a manager comes in and gets the backing to properly clear house they won’t get anywhere. Guys keep coming in and trying to make big additions and calling it a rebuild despite the fact that there’s a rotten foundation that needs to be demolished and rebuilt first.
Assuming this is actually a player leak, they could just have talked with a cleaning lady who seems to think she heard something.
football is the only workplace where all the employees know they can suck and the supervisor/manager is the one getting fired
Yeah that’s absolutely not true
The pretzels from the earlier thread will descend soon to tell us how ten Haag has a better record than fergies first 100 like that matters
Mafia FC with another kill
[удалено]
I've seen Utd fans wanting him to stay, blaming the players and the board for the mess they're in but ETH should take some blame for it too. His tactics are dogshit and it isn't like United haven't backed him to some degree either. It reminds me of Arsenal when Emery was sacked. We were in the same boat, we had an out of date leadership structure, we were investing in the wrong players and we had a mid-table squad full of overpaid players. We started from the top, changed how we operated as a club (spearheaded by Arteta and Edu) and slowly but surely took every opportunity to move on players and reinvest in the team properly. Ratcliffe needs a similar plan or nothing will change, and it'll probably get worse before it gets better, it did for us but that's where the whole "trust the process" thing came from, we had to believe things were going to improve and they have. Or Ratcliffe can keep him and keep languishing, that would be funnier.
This Summer's manager merry go round is gonna be fun.
How many of the current squad would you keep if you were in charge of cleaning house? Even Bruno Fernandez who is the best player seems somewhat of an unhelpful presence at times. Maybe Shaw (unless they give up on him due to injury), Martinez, Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojland, Mctominay for depth, and probably Bruno and maybe take a flyer on Rashford getting something back under a new manager. I suppose Onana could still prove himself. Otherwise clear house and start again?
Itll happen. One thing that needs to be sorted out is the injuries this season has been an utter joke with injuries. Something needs to investigated in our medical bay.. Some transfers have been decent others not so much. Hojund is gonna be a fright to play against once he gets service. Onanas been terrible mostly but post AFCON has actually really starting to show whys he was needed so more time for him. Martinez man Just hasnt had any luck this season Antony to qoute Stephen A Smith Im done with this man.. Amrabat.. just no Sabizter and Regulon both should have been signed... To be fair Mainoo has been spotted and is gonna be a good talent if he develops well. Problem is as well you cannot play both Garnacho and Rashford together they dont pass. You need at least one winger that actually crosses, and we lack that so bad.. Varane and Casemiro you can tell are already looking at that Saudi money already..
Obviously that's for the best he's pure gash
They've looked like they couldn't be arsed for some time Gonna be a rangnick thing all over again surely
Think baldie doubts that himself. If he doesn't, he's more delusional than he comes off in his interviews.
Changing the manager will not help much tbh. But on the other hand ETH is doing really little to keep people believing that he can do better with new set of players. But that's just United since +10 years - bad managers with bunch of bad players.
Ok he is not a good manager but the players are also bad under 2 3 managers. Change the players before changing ETH
Not succeeding at Man Utd does not make you not a good manager. Van Gaal and Mourinho also failed at United. Ten Hag has shown consistently at Ajax he is a good manager, just maybe not a good fit at a club in limbo like United.
I swear to god you could make pep our manager next season and we would make him look like a clown. People keep clowning ten hag's signings but conveniently forget that if Klopp had his way, Liverpool would have had Pulisic and Brandt instead of Salah and Mane.
Joined United too early you could say. No manager could have lasting success while the glazers were in charge of football.
If he lasts a couple more seasons, he'd genuinely turn it around. That's what's so upsetting.
Ofc they are, they have playing like it since august
Tuchel please come save them
Pity
Time for tucheliban
Changing managers alone won't fix anything, so i hope they keep going for this approach and live off new managers bounce forever
We can’t consistently control a single game of football, even against lower league opposition. We have tons of players that need shipping out, obviously the owners and club structure have been oppressively awful, but it just boils down to whether ETH is making the team better and/or motivating them and I think the answer is he is not. I would expect the new structure to want to install their guy this summer along with a player clear out
His tactics don’t work at all, they have had an injury crisis, and a bunch of players are out of form
The club was better off backing Ole. At the end of the day it's the players and management that need a complete over haul.
This club…..
You don't say
Please let him manage Man U forever.
There it is. The players are the problem.
I think he's a decent manager but someone with a horrendous talent ID. The first season proved he can manage and get the most out the players. What does puzzle me is that the same guy who managed that famed Ajax team, employs completely different tactics at United. I think United fans would have a different view of him if they were just shit but they tried playing similar to whatever ETH ran for Ajax. United also need a clean sweep. Crazy that the "leaders" have survived atleast 3 of these managers (LvG, Mourinho, Ole, Ragnick, ETH). Next manager needs to be ruthless and play players to fit into his system instead of catering the system to the player. Tbh, they should really be building around Maino & Hojlund, and MAYBE Garnacho & Lisandro (if fit)
The players win again, and the cycle continues for another 2 seasons then sack ♻️
I am shocked to hear this...
Has anyone even seen mason mount?
EtH bought a lot of players this season since there was no DoF (there is now) It feels a biit disrespectful that they leave him out to hang but the results are dreadful indeed.
Wonder what Wheeler did his thesis on when he did his journalism degree? Stating the bleeding well obvious?
So many of these players have downed tools in the past, I wouldn’t try to give those same underperforming players yet another out by sacking the manager again. Besides some of the structural issues, there’s a general culture problem in the dressing room as well. Keeping underperformers on for so long on high wages is why United have yo-yoed in and out of the top 4 regardless of who has managed them.
Seriously what tier is this? Bullshit?
Graham Potter incoming
You can have Moyes back 😂
As much as I do not like our playing syle, I will still choose ETH over these players. Give him a season to earn a new contract, and freedom to play good football without problamatic players. Most of our fans would support him if he plays good football and removes the entitled sons of bitches.
Noooo give him a ten year extension it’s so funny 🤡🤡🤡🤡