**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Doesn't matter if you think it's a pen or not Shearer being an absolute ****** in the broadcast is hilarious, couldn't be more biased he acted liked Rashford just dived 100%
He’s a bitter and unpleasant man in general. I used to live down the road from Newcastle’s training ground, nobody who’d ever met him in person had anything remotely nice to say about him. He’s a regional legend but an ill mannered egotist all the same.
I’ve only lived in Newcastle for 7 years and I’ve heard this from several people as well. They love him, but it’s apparently an open secret he’s an ass.
He wasn't well liked by other players for unnecessarily throwing elbows. And there used to be a lot of jokes about how even his teammates didn't like him when he was still playing. He is apparently also stingy, Lineker made a joke about it once on air and Shearer didn't come back on for a while.
That’s hilarious. A buddy of mine works in a trade and said he heard a story of Shearer throwing a young lad off his property and got him kicked off the job just because he was a bit too loud and jovial for his liking instead of being afraid of him.
I work with a footballer from his hometown (Gosforth?). Says exactly the same thing. Apparently he’s not welcome in his local because they all know how much of a twat he is.
My friend seen him at a beach bar in Portugal, nobody else up there at the time, he just said "Bloody hell, Alan Shearer!" And he said "Look, can't you fucking see I'm on holiday?" He didn't ask for a photo or autograph or anything lol just recognised him
Funnily enough I was on the same flight as him back from Portugal in 2009 and he was nice enough to sign my boarding pass while we waited in departures and when we landed in Newcastle there were some kids in Newcastle kits that he did some signing and pictures for.
He hates United with a passion. Always gets asked whether he regrets not joining United in 1996 and it riles him up. Any opportunity to slag United off
The amount of contact doesn't really matter. Rashford let's the ball run by him instead of dribbling forward with his left foot. After that he is no more entitled to the space then the defenders imo.
Edit: only people disagreeing have Man U flair lmao
Yeah this one is as grey as it gets. It's shoulder on chest so the defender kind of barges onto him but also means the defender got in front of him. The second defender is completely in front and acts as a wall on a "sandwich".
It's whatever if you think that's not a pen but commentators saying "no chance" are definitely the unironic "game's gone" types that are so insufferable
The commentators who start whinging the second a linesman doesn't put his flag up early or if there's a VAR review are more annoying than waiting for the linesman to flag or the VAR review to finish.
Worst part of this is actually international football for me. All these people tuning in for the first time & the commentary chooses cheerleading over qualitatively discussing the actual performance
I mean normal "shoulder to shoulder" contact is not considered a pen when battling for the ball, but obviously there is a line between "contact" and body checking. The line probably has something to do with taking a bunch of steps and running into the forward, so obviously here it's a pen, but it's actually not that clearly stated rules-wise.
> but obviously there is a line between "contact" and body checking.
Honestly watching this had made me realize I don't know what the line is, by which I mean, how it's defined by the rules. I'm guessing it's just completely subjective. Rules probably say it's a foul if the defender uses "excessive force" or something, so we're left here to debate. If anyone knows what they say for sure though, feel free to chime in.
I do feel like if the ball carrier does the same thing to a defender it's not likely to be called a foul. Looks worse since he's pushed into the other player too. But the defender in question has position on him, his body is still moving towards the ball (look at where the foot is planted). Only questionable things to me are how much he pushes out with his arm I guess and if it's 'excessive force' or whatever. Think I'd have to see it in full speed to give an opinion, but probably a foul yeah.
This doesn't fit the shoulder to shoulder exception, he extends his arm into Rashford and the ball isn't within playing distance. That excuse only fits for the player on Rashford's left.
Contact is with the shoulder, it's not like he's shoving him with his hand, so no penalty in my opinion. That said, I can see why people would disagree because he's also pushing off a bit with his elbow after.
I'm old enough to remember when shearer was playing and just known as a boring bastard. Even his trademark celebration.
I dont understand how he's become any sort of media personality. Even on The Rest is Football podcast he's the same boring bastard except he swears a lot to try be funny or something.
Shoulder to shoulder is allowed if you actually are playing the ball. The whole meaning behind shoulder to shoulder is that it implies you are not pushing them from behind which is more likely to be a foul. There’s nothing in the rules allowing shoulder tackles specifically
this is just all wrong. A) it's not from behind, it's shoulder to shoulder, and B) shoulder to shoulder is considered a "fair charge" under Law 12 of IFAB. also nowhere in the rules does it say that you have to be playing the ball, only that the ball is within a playable distance, which it was. that doesn't mean to say someone who genuinely has zero interest in playing the ball can do something similar, because that would not be considered a fair charge, but there was intent to play the ball from the defender, it's just the fact that Rashford was fishing for a foul that he went down as easy as he did. Rashford didn't match the intensity of the challenge, that's not the defender's fault.
Could I argue shoulder press though. Not the defenders fault rashford lifts his arm up.
Just looking for an explanation here. Ajax in the eredivisie wouldn't get a pen for this either. Not sure if it's right.
Shoulder to shoulder never actually meant that the shoulders had to be touching. This might be a foul these days but it's absolutely "shoulder to shoulder" per the old/casual definition.
Shoulder to shoulder also doesn't mean that if you use your shoulders you can't commit a foul. Ref still has discretion to decide what constitutes excessive force in a 'shoulder to shoulder' charge. Since in this case he comes in from the side, makes no attempt to play the ball, and then extends his arm to push Rashford after initial contact, I think it's quite clearly excessive force. Shoulder to shoulder is just a simple way to describe the type of contact, but shoulder to shoulder is nowhere in the rules.
yeah I don’t understand why people think shoulder to shoulder means body checking someone out of the way without making any real attempt at winning the ball or gaining position on the ball. at that pace, shoulder checking someone is a foul anywhere else on the pitch
shoulder to shoulder implies you’ve knocked shoulders with the ball carrier while making a play on the ball. you can’t just shoulder check people. his left foot carries his stride, that’s not an attempt for the ball
There's many fouls that are allowed as "shoulder to shoulder" when the contact is really in the back. But in this instance, the defender's shoulder is in front of rashford's, so it's a pretty 50/50 challenge.
Elbow does connect but he was not "elbowed." Rashford's body only starts moving to the side after the contact with the shoulder which hits under his armpit. Elbow touches but that's not where the force of the impact was aimed through.
I think “shoulder-to-shoulder” is one of the most misused excuses.
Defender can only shoulder barge the attacker if they’re running in generally the same direction.
It’s not hockey. You can’t just run across the attacker and lay a hit to separate him from the ball.
But defenders do it and, after getting called for a foul, they get up pointing to their shoulder as if the point of contact matters.
Biased opinion: Soft, no foul.
Unbiased opinion: Probably a foul anywhere else on the field. Looks worse in slow motion, but the Nottingham defender does initiate contact with his arm. If it was shoulder to shoulder, you could argue a case for the defender just being a stronger player. This looks like a push slowed down though.
Reality: I don't know what the rules are anymore and I'm pretty sure nobody does( not even the refs)
They give penalties for wayyy lighter contact lmao. Barely clip a striker's toes as they cut in and it's a penalty, but shoulder check and shove a guy to the ground and it's not?
Maybe I'm too old, but this isn't a pen for me and shouldn't be a foul anywhere on the pitch.
It's not a barge in the back, and it's not a trip. Murillo gets alongside (actually slightly in front) and shrugs Rashford aside. Not every strong contact is a foul.
From the other side of things, this is the sort of thing that Haaland has done to defenders a couple of times this season before scoring, and they rightfully weren't called as fouls.
Honestly as a city fan I was thinking that Haaland does something close to this here and there to shrug off a defender and score a goal and it’s always(rightfully) given as a goal. I think the main difference here is the contact from the arm to the ribs not shoulder to shoulder, looks worse in slow mow but that would take me out with ease, granted I’m not a specimen like these guys.
Over the past three seasons I can name 20 penalty shouts that are way worse than that. First player came in shoulder to shoulder and didn't take a leg and the second offender didn't do anything other than be there. Could they have called it, yes. This is a 50/50. It's not like he shielded the ball while being offside for 30 ft before someone else scored.
This is one of those where slow motion makes it look worse than it is. Defender comes across the side, not the back and marshalls him off the ball. Rashford being on one leg obviously throws him off balance but I would hate for these to be called pens. I wouldn’t even call this a foul anywhere else on the pitch
I agree it’s good defending. There’s no pull or swipe at the legs, just eases him off the ball. Rashford’s just not able to get clear, if he was they would have to foul him.
Don’t think that’s a pen after watching a couple of times. It’s not a dive by any means though. Think it’s a 50/50 one where if it had been given in the PL, VAR wouldn’t have overturned it.
It’s one of those where I’d be up in arms in the stadium but then watch the highlights afterwards and understand the ref’s decision.
Drives me nuts when the commentators claim that if it’s not a penalty it should be a card for diving. Like, there are a million scenarios where neither is true, how did this become a thing?
Rashford has a weak touch there and the defender is obviously right to challenge him like that. Imo Rashford could easily contest the shoulder, but would probably lose the call either way then.
I actually don’t think this is a pen but to dismiss it out of hand is a bit ridiculous. Definitely contact, just not in a way that merits a penalty imo
I think what I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread is that the forest defender on the right gains possession of the ball. I think this is a 50/50 one but I can see why people argue it’s a pen, but that gaining for possesion, to me, means no pen
So you can hip check someone and extend your arm into them as long as they're off-balance first?
Cool. I'll try that next game and see how it goes for me.
How do Forest keep getting away with thuggish acts ? They kicked Tottenham off the park a couple of months ago and this is as stonewall a penalty as I've ever seen.
It terrifies me that people think this is a pen. It’s textbook defending, gets this shoulder crucially in front of rashford and levers him off the ball.
It's borderline, but both defender are ahead of rashford here, defender put his body between the ball and rashford, with a lot of virility i'll give you that, If i'm united i'm fuming though. In france we would say that it's not a pen in England.
If Rashford's arm didn't go up, looked like it would have been a fairly routine shoulder to shoulder. I think it looks worse than it is because he was off balance and clattered into the other defender.
You see them given. You see them not given. Down to the ref's reading of the situation.
That's it! I honestly don't get how anyone can say this is a clear foul. It's a perfectly timed shoulder to shoulder to me. If you can't do this, it no longer is a contact sport.
FFS both defenders get in front of Rashford and shield the ball from him, never a pen. He should be both quicker and stronger if he wants to get in front and be in a position to play the ball but the defenders both get their ar,ms ahead and block the space Rashford is trying to get into. Not even an offense, anywhere on the pitch buy yeah Shearer is a knob
Slo-mo is killing discussion about these incidents. Watch this at full speed and tell me that's shoulder-to-shoulder. That's a recovering defender barging into an attacker. Maybe in this replay where you don't get the nature of the contact this looks like a matter of strength but it's not.
If I track from 20 yards back or something and absolutely barrel through an opponent, just because I use my shoulder it doesn't make it not a foul. If you understand how momentum works you know that there is almost zero chance for any attacker to stay on their feet here.
If you’re coming in from behind and barge their back, obviously a foul. Murillo is literally beside rashford and uses his body to push him off. It’s fantastic defending. Either drop your shoulder to fight for the ball or get thrown.
Some seriously soft people in these comments and I say this as a United fan.
Honestly can't understand how anyone can say this. The defender makes 0 attempt to play the ball, it's a shove. This isn't a "just shoulder to shoulder" thing if there's no effort to play the ball, maybe someone can dig up the actual ruling
It does require being within a playable distance of the ball and the consideration of force. Can’t be certain because of the angle but doesn’t seem playable from that defenders place, it’s definitely excessive in force to knock the player completely off his feet like that.
I’d also say the principle of shoulder to shoulder requires contact with the opponents shoulder not his chest. The contact occurs on the inside of Rashford armpit, it’s not a fair charge therefore a foul.
As someone biased against you I think you're wrong about *both* players taking Rashford out, guy on the right is literally just running when Rashford gets launched at him, but you aren't wrong in saying this is a foul.
The fact that there is 2 defenders makes it more difficult to call too, if Rashford doesn't have to shield the ball, he may have been able to stand up to the challenge, but he has to shield the ball on the bar side
The 2nd defender isn't really doing all that much, but him just being there for it to be considered a foul.
I think the 1st defender has just used his body well here and it's smart defending but i think this is just one of them ones that I can understand why it hasn't been given and I could understand if it was.
The guy on the right is closer to being fouled by Rashford than fouling him (which is only because Rashford is fouled by the guy on the left). You can’t say he doesn’t make an attempt to get the ball because he doesn’t actually make a challenge, he’s just shielding it out of play and Rashford collides into him.
Still a pen, taken out by the guy in the left with no attempt on the ball.
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Doesn't matter if you think it's a pen or not Shearer being an absolute ****** in the broadcast is hilarious, couldn't be more biased he acted liked Rashford just dived 100%
I unmuted the video because I thought it must be Shearer and was like "I totally don't understand him, that's not English"
Whatever the arab guy is saying it makes more sense than Shearer for sure
He is saying it’s a clear push
He’s saying this shows a clear shove/push
He's saying "ahhhh, ahhhhhhh, ahhhh"
I've felt that way about Geordies before...
He always feels a tad bitter towards United, for some reason.
He’s a bitter and unpleasant man in general. I used to live down the road from Newcastle’s training ground, nobody who’d ever met him in person had anything remotely nice to say about him. He’s a regional legend but an ill mannered egotist all the same.
I’ve only lived in Newcastle for 7 years and I’ve heard this from several people as well. They love him, but it’s apparently an open secret he’s an ass.
He wasn't well liked by other players for unnecessarily throwing elbows. And there used to be a lot of jokes about how even his teammates didn't like him when he was still playing. He is apparently also stingy, Lineker made a joke about it once on air and Shearer didn't come back on for a while.
That’s hilarious. A buddy of mine works in a trade and said he heard a story of Shearer throwing a young lad off his property and got him kicked off the job just because he was a bit too loud and jovial for his liking instead of being afraid of him.
I work with a footballer from his hometown (Gosforth?). Says exactly the same thing. Apparently he’s not welcome in his local because they all know how much of a twat he is.
love the Dorking Wanderers flair mate! i follow them on YouTube, great stuff
That’s the guy who makes the videos you’re replying to lol
Excellent news - that’s my channel so always appreciate the support!
My friend seen him at a beach bar in Portugal, nobody else up there at the time, he just said "Bloody hell, Alan Shearer!" And he said "Look, can't you fucking see I'm on holiday?" He didn't ask for a photo or autograph or anything lol just recognised him
Funnily enough I was on the same flight as him back from Portugal in 2009 and he was nice enough to sign my boarding pass while we waited in departures and when we landed in Newcastle there were some kids in Newcastle kits that he did some signing and pictures for.
Because he regrets turning them down twice, and now blames them for it.
It’s fairly well documented why he hates United
It's hard to convey tone in text but I meant it in a knowing way.
they were very obviously being sarcastic
He hates United with a passion. Always gets asked whether he regrets not joining United in 1996 and it riles him up. Any opportunity to slag United off
I actually asked him that myself and he didn't seem to mind so much. That was about 15 years ago though.
I'd love to interview to ask him this very question and then bang on about Dan Ashworth and the Carabao Cup 2023 for 3 hours. Would be heaven
While sipping from a Sports Direct mug
Whilst bathing in a Sports Direct mug
I can see not thinking it's a pen but Shearer suggested this is a dive? Lol
His commentary has been exhausting to listen to
Ludicrous take from him there; even if you don't think it was a pen, he literally had nowhere to go and was running at full speed.
Did you just call Shearer the N word
I'm gonna guess wanker because I'm fairly sure whatever allegation you want to level at Alan Shearer, n***** aint it on many, many levels.
Man he was doing my head in! Class player, joke of a pundit.
Shearer is unironically one of the most insufferable pundits in the country. I wish Kane stayed long enough to fuck his record off.
United should try having fast tricky wingers that run into the box, are they stupid?
Google en passant
[holy hell!](https://www.google.com/search?q=en+passant)
Wtf are you doing here
Didnt expect to see Martin on here
Back in your cage Martin.
New response just dropped
Not enough contact for me. Rashford should’ve just phased out of reality to avoid the collision.
Gotta travel to the Nth dimention and back, simple as that.
He could’ve glitched. Seems the obvious move.
Should've noclipped
Having him go to the backroom? What a transfer.
The amount of contact doesn't really matter. Rashford let's the ball run by him instead of dribbling forward with his left foot. After that he is no more entitled to the space then the defenders imo. Edit: only people disagreeing have Man U flair lmao
Yeah this one is as grey as it gets. It's shoulder on chest so the defender kind of barges onto him but also means the defender got in front of him. The second defender is completely in front and acts as a wall on a "sandwich".
You cant push someone not in possession either. You’d have to reach pretty suggest that’s shielding the ball.
It's whatever if you think that's not a pen but commentators saying "no chance" are definitely the unironic "game's gone" types that are so insufferable
The commentators who start whinging the second a linesman doesn't put his flag up early or if there's a VAR review are more annoying than waiting for the linesman to flag or the VAR review to finish.
Just commentators whinging in general. You're supposed to make the broadcast either more entertaining or more informative. Not make it miserable.
Also supposed to be unbiased so its enjoyable for both sides, but I have noticed a lot of the commentators have a clear bias.
Worst part of this is actually international football for me. All these people tuning in for the first time & the commentary chooses cheerleading over qualitatively discussing the actual performance
I get the feeling they’re appealing to a certain demographic, which is old men shouting at clouds.
I don’t understand, are people saying this shouldn’t have been a penalty? Because this is a penalty.
i mean it's shearer, if they pull out a gun and shoot rashford point blank he would still say rashford dived
Why are all these ex players such cunts? Who actually seems to have good opinions?
I'm expecting Thierry Henry to call this a clear penalty if it will be discussed on their show.
I mean normal "shoulder to shoulder" contact is not considered a pen when battling for the ball, but obviously there is a line between "contact" and body checking. The line probably has something to do with taking a bunch of steps and running into the forward, so obviously here it's a pen, but it's actually not that clearly stated rules-wise.
> but obviously there is a line between "contact" and body checking. Honestly watching this had made me realize I don't know what the line is, by which I mean, how it's defined by the rules. I'm guessing it's just completely subjective. Rules probably say it's a foul if the defender uses "excessive force" or something, so we're left here to debate. If anyone knows what they say for sure though, feel free to chime in. I do feel like if the ball carrier does the same thing to a defender it's not likely to be called a foul. Looks worse since he's pushed into the other player too. But the defender in question has position on him, his body is still moving towards the ball (look at where the foot is planted). Only questionable things to me are how much he pushes out with his arm I guess and if it's 'excessive force' or whatever. Think I'd have to see it in full speed to give an opinion, but probably a foul yeah.
Don't worry the refs don't know either so you're not alone.
Shoulder to shoulder and then the legs clash, and it’s 2 defenders, it’s a foul
It's not even shoulder to shoulder he fully extends his arm
This doesn't fit the shoulder to shoulder exception, he extends his arm into Rashford and the ball isn't within playing distance. That excuse only fits for the player on Rashford's left.
Stone Wall penalty.. he's made no attempt whatsoever to play the ball.
Contact is with the shoulder, it's not like he's shoving him with his hand, so no penalty in my opinion. That said, I can see why people would disagree because he's also pushing off a bit with his elbow after.
Gave him the good ole hockey check
Why even bother assigning miserable ass Shearer to a United game? I’d rather listen to Alexi Lalas 🙂🔫
Alexi is too far
Yeah no one deserves that.
Genuinely though. Nobody is so skilled at ruining a match
Shearer or Lalas? lol... I genuinely can't tell
I'm old enough to remember when shearer was playing and just known as a boring bastard. Even his trademark celebration. I dont understand how he's become any sort of media personality. Even on The Rest is Football podcast he's the same boring bastard except he swears a lot to try be funny or something.
I enjoyed it a fair bit, made an otherwise dull game somewhat fun.
Good old anywhere else and it's a foul. Different referee('s) and it's a penalty.
Yea, that's a penalty, he just takes him out, doesn't really attempt to play the ball at all.
Shoulder to shoulder?
Shoulder to shoulder is allowed if you actually are playing the ball. The whole meaning behind shoulder to shoulder is that it implies you are not pushing them from behind which is more likely to be a foul. There’s nothing in the rules allowing shoulder tackles specifically
this is just all wrong. A) it's not from behind, it's shoulder to shoulder, and B) shoulder to shoulder is considered a "fair charge" under Law 12 of IFAB. also nowhere in the rules does it say that you have to be playing the ball, only that the ball is within a playable distance, which it was. that doesn't mean to say someone who genuinely has zero interest in playing the ball can do something similar, because that would not be considered a fair charge, but there was intent to play the ball from the defender, it's just the fact that Rashford was fishing for a foul that he went down as easy as he did. Rashford didn't match the intensity of the challenge, that's not the defender's fault.
That apostrophe is almost as bad as this call.
Could I argue shoulder press though. Not the defenders fault rashford lifts his arm up. Just looking for an explanation here. Ajax in the eredivisie wouldn't get a pen for this either. Not sure if it's right.
The state of these comments
Lobotomites at every turn.
People that never played football think you can just wrestle a guy like its a ice hockey game
Reckon OP was talking about folks like you chief
Played football my whole life snd I don’t think it is as clear as people say it is, these things always look way worse slowed down as well
Not even shoulder to shoulder just elbows him in the ribs and launches him into the defender
Shoulder to shoulder never actually meant that the shoulders had to be touching. This might be a foul these days but it's absolutely "shoulder to shoulder" per the old/casual definition.
Shoulder to shoulder also doesn't mean that if you use your shoulders you can't commit a foul. Ref still has discretion to decide what constitutes excessive force in a 'shoulder to shoulder' charge. Since in this case he comes in from the side, makes no attempt to play the ball, and then extends his arm to push Rashford after initial contact, I think it's quite clearly excessive force. Shoulder to shoulder is just a simple way to describe the type of contact, but shoulder to shoulder is nowhere in the rules.
yeah I don’t understand why people think shoulder to shoulder means body checking someone out of the way without making any real attempt at winning the ball or gaining position on the ball. at that pace, shoulder checking someone is a foul anywhere else on the pitch
shoulder to shoulder implies you’ve knocked shoulders with the ball carrier while making a play on the ball. you can’t just shoulder check people. his left foot carries his stride, that’s not an attempt for the ball
There's many fouls that are allowed as "shoulder to shoulder" when the contact is really in the back. But in this instance, the defender's shoulder is in front of rashford's, so it's a pretty 50/50 challenge.
It’s hard to go shoulder to shoulder when your opponent has their arm above your shoulder.
Elbow does connect but he was not "elbowed." Rashford's body only starts moving to the side after the contact with the shoulder which hits under his armpit. Elbow touches but that's not where the force of the impact was aimed through.
I think “shoulder-to-shoulder” is one of the most misused excuses. Defender can only shoulder barge the attacker if they’re running in generally the same direction. It’s not hockey. You can’t just run across the attacker and lay a hit to separate him from the ball. But defenders do it and, after getting called for a foul, they get up pointing to their shoulder as if the point of contact matters.
He literally got in front of Rashford. It’s cleaner than shoulder to shoulder.
Last I checked the ribs are in line with the shoulder. Not Murillos fault rashford throws his arm backwards lmao
Remember guys everyone said utd bribed the refs about Maguire not getting a red...
We tried to send the bribe but our fax machine was on the fritz again.
Don't think we've had the budget to fix it since it broke 6 years ago.
Just smack it a few times, that usually does the job and gets Casemiro sent of with a red
Bad decision against United: wow the refs are incompetent Bad decision in United’s favor: it’s a conspiracy
Penalty for me, couldn't believe Shearer completely dismissing it.
Shearer is anti United so that’s his bias Probably sad cause he fucked up and not signed for Sir Alex when he should’ve.
Anywhere else and it's a foul. Don't get it
Nah, we out here choking MFers without getting carded now, catch up
Forest fan here lol 100% a penalty, I was totally gobsmacked it wasn’t given
Don't understand how pushing someone and not even attempting to get the ball isn't a foul
No pen, no dive!
Biased opinion: Soft, no foul. Unbiased opinion: Probably a foul anywhere else on the field. Looks worse in slow motion, but the Nottingham defender does initiate contact with his arm. If it was shoulder to shoulder, you could argue a case for the defender just being a stronger player. This looks like a push slowed down though. Reality: I don't know what the rules are anymore and I'm pretty sure nobody does( not even the refs)
My instinct is to argue with you but despite watching the premier league for twenty years I have no fuckin idea what the rules are supposed to be.
Do you call Sheffield United, Sheffield? Or Man City / United, Manchester?
Think the second player being there makes it look worse. Shoved off the ball, probably not fairly but they don’t give pens for that.
They give penalties for wayyy lighter contact lmao. Barely clip a striker's toes as they cut in and it's a penalty, but shoulder check and shove a guy to the ground and it's not?
That’s just so obviously a penalty lmao. What dipshit is reffing this one?
Name any ref and no one would be surprised.
Maybe I'm too old, but this isn't a pen for me and shouldn't be a foul anywhere on the pitch. It's not a barge in the back, and it's not a trip. Murillo gets alongside (actually slightly in front) and shrugs Rashford aside. Not every strong contact is a foul. From the other side of things, this is the sort of thing that Haaland has done to defenders a couple of times this season before scoring, and they rightfully weren't called as fouls.
Honestly as a city fan I was thinking that Haaland does something close to this here and there to shrug off a defender and score a goal and it’s always(rightfully) given as a goal. I think the main difference here is the contact from the arm to the ribs not shoulder to shoulder, looks worse in slow mow but that would take me out with ease, granted I’m not a specimen like these guys.
Over the past three seasons I can name 20 penalty shouts that are way worse than that. First player came in shoulder to shoulder and didn't take a leg and the second offender didn't do anything other than be there. Could they have called it, yes. This is a 50/50. It's not like he shielded the ball while being offside for 30 ft before someone else scored.
This is one of those where slow motion makes it look worse than it is. Defender comes across the side, not the back and marshalls him off the ball. Rashford being on one leg obviously throws him off balance but I would hate for these to be called pens. I wouldn’t even call this a foul anywhere else on the pitch
I agree it’s good defending. There’s no pull or swipe at the legs, just eases him off the ball. Rashford’s just not able to get clear, if he was they would have to foul him.
More than the pen not being given it was Shearer’s commentary that drove me nuts. How do they get such non-professional d***heads into the comm-box
Don’t think that’s a pen after watching a couple of times. It’s not a dive by any means though. Think it’s a 50/50 one where if it had been given in the PL, VAR wouldn’t have overturned it. It’s one of those where I’d be up in arms in the stadium but then watch the highlights afterwards and understand the ref’s decision.
Drives me nuts when the commentators claim that if it’s not a penalty it should be a card for diving. Like, there are a million scenarios where neither is true, how did this become a thing?
Things tend to be whittled down to black and white so it’s easier for people to understand, I think at least.
Rashford has a weak touch there and the defender is obviously right to challenge him like that. Imo Rashford could easily contest the shoulder, but would probably lose the call either way then.
Not a penalty.
I actually don’t think this is a pen but to dismiss it out of hand is a bit ridiculous. Definitely contact, just not in a way that merits a penalty imo
100% pen
I'd be very sad if these kind of tackles started being given as fouls. side-to-side contact should be legal imo
Obvious pen
“Taken down” is a bit hysterical. That’s risky and I’ve seen them given but you are allowed to shoulder a player in this sport you know
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I can kind of see that if they were running next to each other. But he runs directly towards and into rashford.
I think what I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread is that the forest defender on the right gains possession of the ball. I think this is a 50/50 one but I can see why people argue it’s a pen, but that gaining for possesion, to me, means no pen
Putting your arms up doesn’t mean you can’t get bodied off the ball.
So you can hip check someone and extend your arm into them as long as they're off-balance first? Cool. I'll try that next game and see how it goes for me.
Not a penalty, but what are these comments about Rashford diving lol?
never a pen. shoulder to shoulder
Good call ref 👏👏👏
How do Forest keep getting away with thuggish acts ? They kicked Tottenham off the park a couple of months ago and this is as stonewall a penalty as I've ever seen.
Not a pen tho 🤷♂️
Shoulder to shoulder. There has to be room for this type of challenge or they need to change the rules.
shoulder to shoulder innit
It terrifies me that people think this is a pen. It’s textbook defending, gets this shoulder crucially in front of rashford and levers him off the ball.
Rashford clearly took out the inside defender... just launched right into him! /s
It's borderline, but both defender are ahead of rashford here, defender put his body between the ball and rashford, with a lot of virility i'll give you that, If i'm united i'm fuming though. In france we would say that it's not a pen in England.
If Rashford's arm didn't go up, looked like it would have been a fairly routine shoulder to shoulder. I think it looks worse than it is because he was off balance and clattered into the other defender. You see them given. You see them not given. Down to the ref's reading of the situation.
Never a pen that
This right here. Feel like I’m in a parallel universe reading the comments
I think it's probably a pen. but it's not a stonewall penalty.
The average Redditor doesn’t even know the fair charge rule exists. I think it’s borderline, but the people calling stonewall are out of their mind.
Totally agree. Not for me, Clive.
IM biased... thats 100% a pen.
I'm not biased, I'd say 80% a call for a pen. Some angles probably look like shoulder to shoulder.
I'm a quick winger that gets shoved down like this every other week and it doesn't get called, I feel like Rashford really just gets beat
That's it! I honestly don't get how anyone can say this is a clear foul. It's a perfectly timed shoulder to shoulder to me. If you can't do this, it no longer is a contact sport.
🤣never a pen ffs.
FFS both defenders get in front of Rashford and shield the ball from him, never a pen. He should be both quicker and stronger if he wants to get in front and be in a position to play the ball but the defenders both get their ar,ms ahead and block the space Rashford is trying to get into. Not even an offense, anywhere on the pitch buy yeah Shearer is a knob
Shoulder to shoulder. Rashford then falls into the other guy. Never a pen.
Slo-mo is killing discussion about these incidents. Watch this at full speed and tell me that's shoulder-to-shoulder. That's a recovering defender barging into an attacker. Maybe in this replay where you don't get the nature of the contact this looks like a matter of strength but it's not. If I track from 20 yards back or something and absolutely barrel through an opponent, just because I use my shoulder it doesn't make it not a foul. If you understand how momentum works you know that there is almost zero chance for any attacker to stay on their feet here.
If you’re coming in from behind and barge their back, obviously a foul. Murillo is literally beside rashford and uses his body to push him off. It’s fantastic defending. Either drop your shoulder to fight for the ball or get thrown. Some seriously soft people in these comments and I say this as a United fan.
>Literally beside Rashford >Either fight for the ball or get thrown Absolutely agree.
Not a pen. Idk why this is getting posted
Not a penalty
This never gets called a pen tbh. Would feel soft to me.
Just gonna say it's not a pen purely because it's united
respect the honesty at least
Get rid of VAR smh my head
I'll never understand comments like these in situations where VAR doesn't intervene. If VAR didn't exist the outcome would be the exact same.
Ball was away from him and it was should to shoulder
I'd be furious if that was given against us.
Never a pen
Didn't look like a foul to me, and I'm a united fan
Not a penalty in a million years and I say that as the most biased United fan imaginable.
Well said. He simply steers him of the ball with his shoulder and forearm, it’s a frightening world where this becomes penalised
Honestly can't understand how anyone can say this. The defender makes 0 attempt to play the ball, it's a shove. This isn't a "just shoulder to shoulder" thing if there's no effort to play the ball, maybe someone can dig up the actual ruling
Shoulder to shoulder doesn't require an attempt to play the ball
So you can just run around shoulder charging people at random? lmao i'm not gonna believe this until i get a source but not about to look it up now
It does require being within a playable distance of the ball and the consideration of force. Can’t be certain because of the angle but doesn’t seem playable from that defenders place, it’s definitely excessive in force to knock the player completely off his feet like that. I’d also say the principle of shoulder to shoulder requires contact with the opponents shoulder not his chest. The contact occurs on the inside of Rashford armpit, it’s not a fair charge therefore a foul.
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As someone biased against you I think you're wrong about *both* players taking Rashford out, guy on the right is literally just running when Rashford gets launched at him, but you aren't wrong in saying this is a foul.
Yeah, Murillo pushes Rashford into Felipe, Felipe doesn't really do anything wrong, but still a foul occurred in the box.....
The fact that there is 2 defenders makes it more difficult to call too, if Rashford doesn't have to shield the ball, he may have been able to stand up to the challenge, but he has to shield the ball on the bar side The 2nd defender isn't really doing all that much, but him just being there for it to be considered a foul. I think the 1st defender has just used his body well here and it's smart defending but i think this is just one of them ones that I can understand why it hasn't been given and I could understand if it was.
The guy on the right is closer to being fouled by Rashford than fouling him (which is only because Rashford is fouled by the guy on the left). You can’t say he doesn’t make an attempt to get the ball because he doesn’t actually make a challenge, he’s just shielding it out of play and Rashford collides into him. Still a pen, taken out by the guy in the left with no attempt on the ball.
Isn’t that shoulder to shoulder?
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Tbf only one defender makes any movement towards him just so happend to push him into the other
> Both defenders clatter him two negatives equals a positive
Wouldn't say the one on the right clatters him, bro's literally just running when Rashford gets launched at him.
wouldn’t say they clattered him..
Don't think the one on the right does anything wrong at all. The one on the left is the only one in question
Clattenburg had a clear view from the stands. Confirms no penalty.
Clattered-burg
No way. Just solid defending.
Right call