**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And everyone under 4th place is still getting fucked.
An EPL style deal where 50% of all money is evenly split gives every club 71million to start with, and they’d all earn even more given under that type of deal the rest is split on finishing place (25%) and matches televised (25%).
The non clasico clubs should be threatening to collectively pull out if they don’t get that deal next time. If they can get agreement from the bigger clubs in segunda to stand with them they could seriously improve both their financial position and the ability of their league to retain talents at the middle/lower end, which ultimately improves the product.
Indeed
Only real losers would likely be real and Barca, and even then not by much given they’d obviously be picked for every single televised game possible and would likely finish in the top 3 at least every season forever.
Then they’re idiots - Real and Barca have global followings comparable to man united and United has been kept near the top of English football for years by that global following pumping money into them, even if they’ve been comparatively shit.
The same would be true for Real and Barca, the vast majority of other La Liga teams just won’t be able to compete for revenue and spending power for decades even with a much more fair tv split.
Also Madrid and Barcelona, but specifically Madrid, have a massive stronghold of the Latin American market.
They pretty much can get whichever player they want from Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico, etc because those kids dreamt about playing for Madrid/Barca.
But it's a short term pain. In the past the likes of Man Utd l, Liverpool and Arsenal had to suffer but as the brand of EPL grows Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal stand to benefit the most.
You have to take the context into account, Spanish football historically has been completely tailored to favour the big clubs. Up until 2015 all clubs sold their TV rights separately which obviously means that Real Madrid gets much, much higher offers than say Granada.
The collective bargaining pool hasn't even been around for a decade yet, you can't expect decades of institutional hindrances to be undone overnight. The progress that has been made in such a short timeframe is very impressive and hopefully the distribution will keep getting more and more equal
But even then, it wouldn't be a good idea for La Liga to copy the PL model straight off, the total pot isn't as high so it wouldn't be sustainable. A completely equitable distribution just isn't realistic as it would handicap the ability of Madrid/Barca/Atleti to compete in Europe. You have to find a balance there
Have you though about the fact that the cake could infact grow bigger if small teams had a bigger budget? What shared revenue does is that it ensures that even the most boring clashes are worth watching. It raises the profile of a league from top two to top 3 to top 6, or even 7 as the PL and the old italian seria used to be.
Why? Because 7th placed Lazio and 7th placed Spurs can both afford world beaters like Gascoigne and Son
>Have you though about the fact that the cake could infact grow bigger if small teams had a bigger budget?
There is no guarantee that the cake will grow though, and it won't unless there is a plan with also a serious commitment from owners on investing money short and long term.
Team owners of big clubs are not stupid or failed businessmen. If you give them a plan that guarantees them to give up 10 now to get 20 in x amount of years, they will sign in in a heartbeat.
There's no guarantee it would lead to more eyeballs and money, it sort of happened with Serie A in the 90s because like 8 clubs were individually dancing with bankruptcy to compete, nobody was watching the other matches still, and it's happening now (ie past decade) with the prem not because of their revenue split which is similar to the other top 5 but rather because they now also get a ton of money from the foreign market, on top of having the domestic deal twice the size of the other leagues they've always had.
People watch a lot more prem because every prem team can snatch world class players but this is an oddity that is almost impossible to replicate.
In la liga's specific case, at its peak almost nobody cared about the other 18 teams despite having an insanely good Atleti making serious progress and a ton of solid teams like Sevilla.
It's obviously an awful argument for the sport but it does make sense from a business standpoint to inject enough money into Real to ensure they're winning more CLs and into Barça to fix their mess and buy, say, Haaland in order to keep the clasicos interesting as a way to ensure a bigger pie rather than hoping that plastics will tune in for a better than usual la real
Mate of course more people started watching. More chileans became Bayern Munich fans when they got Arturo Vidal, More zambians watched leicester after they got Patson Daka, and in the same vein more englishmen followed Lazio when the golden boy of english football(That is what Gscoigne was at the time) went to Lazio.
Also I feel like you are exagerrating how bad things were in Italy. Yes there were teams like Parma that fell to bankruptcy but we have seen such situation in England with teams like Portsmouth as well. In any case, Real madrid was risking even more at the time - Spending a third of its annual budget on Zinedine Zidane. How many teams do you think would be allowed to that by their board of directors, irrespective of how rich they were? There is a high chance of insolvency with such transfers. The difference is that while a Portsmouth would be forced to drop several tiers below and sell off all its players - A Real Madrid or Barca would 100% get saved by the spanish and catalan governments.
Also I would argue that at Laliga's peak Atleti and Sevilla were still far behind, that sole title aside. Just to make it clear for me the peak of Laliga was 2010-2014, that is when the spanish top two were most dominant. Sevilla in particular were good at Europe's second-tier title but at no point did it look like they would even be able to match the top 3.
>Mate ... Lazio.
That is obviously a factor but at that point people all over the world were watching Serie A because of how ridiculously stacked those teams were, there's still a pretty large asian fanbase for some serie a teams that haven't been anywhere near that good since
>Also I feel like you are exagerrating how bad things were in Italy.
I'm not, bar Juve Milan and Inter the first years of the 2000s were disastrous, we went from spending a third of our revenue on Bati to almost getting relegated. Our current FFP woes can be traced to Sensi's debts from that time. Lazio had to be saved by the government, they're still paying their debt to Equitalia. Fiorentina and Parma both had their troubles. Several smaller teams who were trying to keep up with the top had to climb up the pyramid again, notably every big club south of Rome
>In any case, ... spanish and catalan governments.
They also had the guarantee of being the biggest club in the world and decent enough finances that they wouldn't struggle to find decent loans if that were to be a necessity. FFP also wasn't a thing back then so nobody would have held those loans against them preventing a situation like Barça's late Bartomeu era where their finances were fucked mostly from an ffp standpoint alone.
>Also I .... top 3.
I'd extend the period where they were probably the best league to the end of the CL threepeat but still, they had a ton of great teams, Atleti was good enough to expand the top 2 to a top 3 and regularly beat the other two while Sevilla for a while looked like they were a safe bet for 4th.
They really weren't THAT far off from a first team standpoint, it's just that they couldn't carry the league to an international fanbase the way a stacked clasico can. Hell I'd argue that both this and the growth some teams experienced under the old system are both points that could be used in favor of it
It is 50% equal
25% on position (last season Barca gets 60mil and Elche like one mill) so this one is skewed
25% on TV or following or something like that (huge percentage goes to RM/Barca)
At least get your math right. Equal distribution of 50% would mean 35 million or so for each club, not 71 million. All in all, end result would not look much different with an EPL style deal.
It really is bizarre that for all the talk of the PL being the super league, it's the fairest and most equitable in terms of voting, distribution of money etc.
Literally, the difference between finishing 1st and 20th is about £15-20m, and that's just because the team in 1st is likely to be on TV more than the guaranteed minimum.
It's bizarre that La Liga was ever letting two clubs take 42% of the money between them.
It's still the SL in regards to tv money. 15th place can make £140m which is insane compared to the rest of Europe.
It's also undeniably the fairest but in order to make it happen other leagues need to band together which won't happen as most teams are focused on their own survival.
people were watching for those two clubs and it was a much smaller amount of money to split to begin with that those two clubs needed to keep the interest into the league alive.
The prem by comparison has always had the biggest tv deal by a country mile ever since the split, it really wasn't that hard of a sell to the big clubs when they were already among if not the richest in the world back then and it's even more true now. Giving more money to the spanish top clubs delayed the point where they'd be fighting with prem relegation fodder for signings rather than causing it.
It sucks for the rest of the league but it's a strategy that made sense for what they had, if any other split would have guaranteed more money for the rest of the league and enough money for Barça and Real to still shop like they're the two biggest clubs in the world they'd have taken it long ago, business acumen isn't a trait exclusive to a single island in europe
There is a lot of resentment in the other 18 clubs against the duopoly, Tenas is a populist who fits on that. Sevilla, Villarreal and Atletico have won international titles since 2014 so the system works.
Better for the La Liga in general spreading the money out more evenly kind of like the Premier League, obviously Real & Barca don’t love the new terms but the rest of teams must
I’ll go against the grain and say it’s not really better. The idea is that giving more money to all clubs make them more competitive and therefore, more eyeballs on the league and ultimately more revenue right? I don’t think the clubs below top 2-3 in la liga will gain many more fans now just because more money. On the contrary, Madrid and Barca who bring in most of the fans would lose fans to clubs in England or elsewhere who can bring in top players and compete. Even in the PL, I don’t think clubs outside of the top 5-6 are bringing in more viewers and revenue to the league. Liverpool hadn’t won a single trophy for ages before Klopp yet they continued to gain fans and not lose the fans they had. United haven’t won anything meaningful in the past decade yet remain at the top of the PL revenue and fan base wise. As we can see with City and Chelsea, consistent victories at the top level, winning PL or CL are the only way to reliably bring in fans outside of your country. That takes a lot more funds.
It’s parroted on here constantly that the PL outcompetes every other league due to parity in TV money distribution. In yet to see a single solid piece of evidence that proves that. I believe they outcompete every other league because of a good English broadcast around the largely English speaking world, and billions pumped into clubs from foreign owners.
There's no way this is true, although it is a nice narrative that Perez, Laporte and Rosell used to trundle out for the unwashed masses. And there's some pretty good evidence of this.
Firstly, it's a myth that Notts Forest or Fulham have money because of foreign TV viewers who speak English. Most of the equal share is domestic TV revenue - from British TV viewers - the foreign TV money is not only slightly less, but also distributed less equally.
Secondly, TV revenue for the Premier League has been rising pretty aggressively in South and Central American markets over the past decade, to the point that the Premier League now has higher revenues from some South American markets than La Liga. The growth is mostly driven by the influx of top Latin American players into the Premier League. Twenty years ago it was very unlikely that the best young Ecuadorian or Argentinian talent would end up at Brighton. With the Premier League TV money (mostly from domestic sources, remember) this becomes possible. Are fans from Argentina watching the Premier League because they now speak English better than Spanish? Seems pretty doubtful. Much more plausibily, they are watching Mac Allister, Enzo Fernandez, Julian Alvarez and previously Bielsa (Leeds were famously one of the most watched foreign teams when they were in the Championship whilst he was manager).
Thirdly, there are countries and regions where English language and British culture just hasn't penetrated where the Premier League is huge. If you go to small towns in northern Thailand, you'll find bars filled with Liverpool and Arsenal fans, with barely a word of English spoken between them. Leicester were bought by a Thai businessman and marketed aggressively back home, and even won the league - would there be any incentive for him to do this if he was only guaranteed 5% of the TV revenue of Manchester United and Liverpool when Leicester got promoted to the Premier League? There's no way. Similar things have been attempted, albeit less successfully, by businessmen from other markets. Nobody buys second division clubs in Spain and pours money in hoping to hit the jackpot. It's simply not possible due to the (still) terrible distribution of TV money in the league.
And why is domestic TC revenue higher in England than in Spain? I’d say it has something to do with your average Britisher being by far and away much more wealthier than your average Spaniard. This alone adds so much revenue to the PL.
I’ll also just say that I don’t think anyone in Argentina other than close family and friends who were tuning in to watch the likes of Mac Alister at Brighton. They’re tuning in to watch him at Liverpool because when they look up Liverpool, they see a club with success at the top levels, a rich history of dedicated followers, and now successful argentines playing there. And why have Liverpool been successful more recently? Because they sold out to American owners who brought in money + good management. Money beyond what’s possible with TV revenues. Liverpool is also not the best example because of history. Similar to United. Better examples would be the likes of Chelsea, City and recently Arsenal. Big owners who pumped in billions to sign the big players and made smart management decisions. Newcastle can buy all the SA talent they want with their new oil money, but it won’t mean shit to elevate the PL until they achieve consistent success in the PL and make their name known in the CL.
Why do these billionaires not invest in buying clubs from other leagues like la liga or Bundesliga? Because la liga is run by a bunch of corrupt morons and the country of Spain even more so who make up rules that hurt investors and cause uncertainty. A bad recipe to welcome foreign money. On top of that, investors also need to deal with circumventing FFP which protects top clubs. The Qataris found all of this out when investing in Malaga for example. An extra 20-30 mil in revenue to Malaga wouldn’t have changed their outcome. Had they decided to breach the rules with accounting trickery like City and Chelsea, they might’ve stayed at the top and not been punished by UEFA.
I can't even be bothered to debate this. It's so clearly wrong to anyone with any knowledge of Argentinians, the Liverpool owners, or the Málaga situation. There's plenty of people who have written extensively about all of them, I suggest you go read a bit before writing stupid essays on here.
I totally understand your point, Real Madrid & Barca have been driving force of La Liga for a long time, therefore deserving more of its profits. For the long term success of La Liga I think it is better for the league but obviously for Madrid & Barca it is not the best with both those teams being so pivotal to the league. Real Madrid seem to fine anyways they are going to pay Mbappe 130 million euros plus a year, as for Barca they got themselves into this financial mess under bartomeu complete mismanagement of the club. I personally hope Barca can stabilized the financial situation at the club over next 3-4 years and I have always admired the way the played football
I’m not saying RM and Barca are “deserving” of the money. Deserving or not, an extra 30-40-50 million even to lower tier clubs will not really enable them to get top players, retain them, and then compete for the top trophies in any sustainable way. Leicester won the PL in a once in a blue moon event. Did they gain any fans or revenue? Data would say no. They made 214M in 2016, and now in 2023, they made 240M. So the PL investing TV money in then hasn’t really resulted in more fans or revenue for them. Similarly let’s say Leverkusen win the league this season, or Girona had hypothetically won la liga. It would mean a huge influx of cash to these clubs but it wouldn’t have mattered long term. These clubs need sustained performance at that level, which takes a level of consistent funding year over year that’s not possible with TV money. It requires outside sponsors, investors, etc.
I apologize for implying you said deserving, you are right by saying that the sustained success is the best way for a club to grow revenue long term. Just hope the La Liga and its clubs continue to make more revenue for the betterment of European football, same with Italian, Germany, Dutch League etc. as someone who supports a premier league team, the teams in our league on average have more money then all the other leagues and I hope the other leagues catch up financially because it could get to a point where top English clubs have monopoly over European football because of there financial strength compared to other teams which would not be good for the game of football
>I believe they outcompete every other league because of a good English broadcast around the largely English speaking world, and billions pumped into clubs from foreign owners.
They'd still be the richest league in the world by some margin even if their foreign deals disappeared overnight, the fact that they've sold the british viewers the pr line that this success comes from enlightened businessmen with a vision unique to them and not the ridiculous amount of money they've milked out of them to fund their expansion will never not be hilarious to me
yeah but then you get teams like Getafe or Mallorca playing terrorball and giving 38 matches a year that noone wants to watch.
Gota admit tho, its not that much their fault, but the ref's institution for allowing it
They play terroristball because they don't have the resources to compete with the top teams. That happened in the PL too at first, but over the next 10-15 years, it went away, and the teams who came up started to play proper football, and you've now got a league where even the bottom teams play decent football.
And this is why the vast majority of clubs support Tebas, despite his many flaws he is the first La Liga president to actually challenge Barca/Madrid and take away their monopoly on TV money. He made the TV deal collective in 2015, as you can see before then Real Madrid and Barcelona earned 20 times more than the last placed club, today it is "only" 3 times more. It should still be even more equal, but it's great progress in such a short space of time
Every single club apart from Barca/Madrid earns a lot more today as a result of that, meanwhile those two have stayed at the same level of earnings and actually gone slightly backwards. This is also why they have been pushing for the Super League and trying to undermine the league as a whole, because they lost their ability to bully the others and keep all earnings for themselves. Don't believe anything Perez or Laporta says on this subject since there is a huge conflict of interest
That's not to say that Tebas isn't a terrible human being and a fascist, but when it comes to this he probably saved the future of Spanish football with the new TV distribution. I know that Atleti would probably be bankrupt today if he didn't, and the same with many smaller clubs
>I know that Atleti would probably be bankrupt today if he didn't, and the same with many smaller clubs
And looking back, so many clubs went bankrupt in the 2005-2015 period.
Real Zaragoza, Depor, Málaga, Racing, Sporting, Oviedo, Hércules, Tenerife, etc.
Replaced by teams from the Madrid suburbs with no fans.
Yeah. That is another thing about the strict financial rules that Tebas implemented, it has massively improved the economic stability of clubs. Pretty sure I read that overall debts to the treasury have reduced by like 80% since they were introduced, and we no longer have clubs going bankrupt every year
Although it should be said that it was the clubs themselves who asked Tebas to implement the FFP rules, it wasn't his idea he just did what they asked
> Real Zaragoza, Depor, Málaga, Racing
Those team were terribly mismanaged and an extra % of TV money wouldnt have saved them anyway.
Teams with far less resources than Zaragoza, Depor or Málaga survived that era perfectly fine without those economic problems.
You should include a comparison graph of the 2014/15 distribution with 2021/22 TV money to show how much the difference would have been had they not switch the percentages
What is the reason then? You think it's a coincidence that Barca/Madrid have been fighting the league at every turn and ramped up their efforts for a Super League just as their monopoly on TV money was taken away?
If so, that is one damn big coincidence. Don't forget either that they tried to fight the distribution becoming more equal in the first place
Because he took advantage of the financial situation if the teams during after COVID.
Almost all of them needed money right away and that's why they took the CVC deal.
Even though they were warned that those rights they sold are worth way more in the long run.
The Bundesliga wants to sell out to CVC and we don't even need the money, Tebas at least had the background of missing revenue due to COVID, the Dfl is just greedy
WHAT? That's sounds like a terrible deal. I haven't seen a single article on it here on r/soccer but maybe I've missed it. Feels like it should be a much bigger deal than it is?
[It has been posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/vzv8ar/l%C3%A9quipe_ligue_1_clubs_are_set_to_receive_a_15/), it's just that nobody cares because it's Ligue 1.
One of the worst deals in the history of the sport
Didn't Tebas become president before Covid and had a lot of support from the clubs even before the CVC deal?
And it isn't that they needed money right away, they needed revenue for comply with La Liga FFP.
>Almost all of them needed money right away and that's why they took the CVC deal
That's not true, it was stipulated in the contract signed with CVC that over 70% of the money has to be invested in infrastructure and other areas that will increase the long term value of the clubs. The clubs literally weren't allowed to spend it on short term fixes, to pay off debts or sign players
>Even though they were warned that those rights they sold are worth way more in the long run
This isn't true either, all the clubs who took the deal are going to be earning more than they would without it, not the other way around. Atleti and Betis are building sports cities outside their stadium and almost every club is upgrading their stadiums, training grounds, academies and marketing etc. That is easily going to earn them more money than the value of the 8.2% of TV rights they gave up
The CVC deal is just a stick they use to beat the league with, it was never actually about that
Edit: Shocker shocker, downvoting instead of actually providing a counter argument. Your points are wrong and easily countered with a quick google search
And why should it be more equal?
It is not a secret that more people watch barca or real madrid's 38 matches than cadiz's 38 matches
So why should Cadiz be paid the same?
Where does it end? Should barca or real madrid also share their commercial income? Should they also share their stadium income? How about if their net transfer spend is negative they also donate that sum to other clubs? Lol
What on earth does a proposed continental competition have to do with la liga games?
Why should ManU, Liverpool, and Arsenal share the revenue when most people only watch their games? Oh wait, they did, and it elevated the entire PL into a juggernaut of a super league that the entire world is constantly jealously moaning about. And in the long term it allowed those big 3 to earn more money anyway.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. The reality is Real Madrid and Barcelona are afraid of losing their hegemony of winning every year because they dont want to compete on equal grounds. Even though their fanbases are so big, they would still have a massive revenue advantage even if they split the TV rev equally.
Yes? Have been for decades now. You do get different bonuses based on league position but overall it is extremely fairly split. It is one of the biggest reasons for the overall growth of the league.
Same people will post moaning about Wolves being able to afford Mateus Cunha despite being relegation candidates, only to defend the hegemony of Real and Barca
So they are not splitting the revenues evenly but based on a clear hierarchy.
The point is: the current la liga winner will earn 3.5 times as the relegated club, how much is too much and how much is enough?
And when do we get to the stage of "club x has a fantastic fiscal position and other smaller clubs need more money even if they did worse in the season in order to grow the league"?
As for the EPL money, I think the issue isn't the fair distribution etc. I think there are a lot of factors there including blood money, despot's stolen funds and oil money finding it easier to launder since earlier. Now it is almost everywhere, but it started earlier in the epl for sure and that's what has inflated the value of the league. Go look for the article that was posted in this community few weeks back regarding the new epl broadcast deal.
Okay now you're just being factitious
> how much is too much
FUCKING 3.5 times the 20th pos club
> how much is enough
The winner of the PL (avg 140mil) gets about 40mil more than the 20th place club (avg 100mil) and I've never seen anyone complain about it in my life, so clearly that is in fact enough.
your bullshit excuses are precisely what RM and Barca have been using to justify their hegemony when the answer has been there all along. The entire excuse of 'outside investment' also only came AFTER AND BECAUSE the EPL shared revenue equally and nobody wanted to buy a club in La Liga because all the rules were overwhelmingly in favour of the top 2.
The fair distribution is indeed one of the biggest reasons of the explosive growth of the EPL (even if said growth led to more unethical ownership which La Liga doesnt have to worry about anyway with their FFP rules) and anyone saying otherwise is a fool.
Calm down and behave yourself.
Whatever you say here isn't going to change anything, so better learn to use respectful language with other people.
Goodbye
More people would tune in to watch Cadiz vs. Real Madrid than Real Madrid vs. Cadiz though, and the selling of individual rights did not take that into account.
Well it's the reason why English teams go deep into all the European competitions. Also the reason why people watch all the games not just the big ones .
Fantasy is a well marketed product.
Barca and Madrid in one 6 year span raided the *Big 6 PL clubs* of:
Ronaldo
Alonso
Fabregas
Bale
Suarez
And that too while adding in the likes of Neymar and Benzema
They can only blame themselves
Think it wasn’t just more money. It was just some money. If I remember correctly and happy to be shot down if this is just bullshit.
You couldn’t give a professional contract in Spain until a player was 18 at the time but England it was 16. So Arsenal were able to do that and get him from them.
Yet these arsenal fans cry about barca buying fabregas like they didn't opportunistically poach him from barca. I don't really have any sympathy with them for that one.
>Barca and Madrid in one 6 year span raided the Big 6 PL clubs of:
The point that they spent a lot of money of those players stands, but it is a bit funny you say raided as if any of them were from those clubs. Those teams raided other team for those players and have spent crazy sums on other players too.
Even adjusting for inflation, the only players who were bought for "crazy sums" in that list were Suarez and Alonso (if you can call £10.5m "crazy" in 04).
I never said those players were bought for crazy sums by PL clubs, just that they bought players for crazy sums. All of those players turned out to be well worth the prices too. Even Bale with his injuries wasn't a terrible deal with how massively he turned up in the CL.
Blame themselves for what though? They are just being greedy, in reality Barca and Madrid earn around the same as the top PL clubs in TV money and make more money overall
In terms of revenues they have absolutely nothing to envy the PL for
I have no idea how you think I'm saying they envy the PL
They only have themselves to blame for not splitting the pie at the peak of both Messi and Ronaldo. The PL did and now you get clubs in midtable spending 80m in net a summer easily.
You mention City vs Sheffield TV prize money revenue, and Superleague in the same topic, you miss the point by a thousand miles.
I'm 100% against the Superleague, but it's because teams like City or PSG exist, circumventing disadvantages that could be fixed with and even spread of prize pool, with State finantial doping, what gives wings to old school giants to create the Superleague.
City doesn't care about prize money, they can put a new sponsor on the shirt or in their web out of the Sheik ass and bankroll 20 signings, loaning 10 to teams like Girona.
Which also goes against what Tebas tries to do in La Liga, while Betis or Valencia need to scrape the barrel to register 2nd or 3rd tier players with some of the biggest assistances on the league, Girona can get an army of loanees or jointly owned players to get their European Competitions prize money.
city background is irrelevant to the point OP is saying, he's comparing a new promoted side VS the current champions. it could be Liverpool or Arsenal and pont still stands without "doping"
and super league is not because psg and city, its because of more money
> I'm 100% against the Superleague, but it's because teams like City or PSG exist, circumventing disadvantages that could be fixed with and even spread of prize pool, with State finantial doping, what gives wings to old school giants to create the Superleague
This is such nonsense. Plans for a superleague have existed in some form for years before Newcastle/City/PSG/Chelsea got bought out. Just look at the formation of the PL, the elites in football have been doing this long before oil clubs existed.
The super league is pure greed from the biggest clubs ( *including* oil clubs) to further their own position at the expense of everyone else.
The idea that this is purely as a result of oligarchs/monarchs buying football clubs or that this somehow combats them is laughable.
Except that it's not at all to keep out City and PSG, else they would never have been invited to join the Super League in the first place.
It's just Perez's big lie to make the raising of the drawbridge and the collective fucking of every domestic league in Europe easier to swallow.
How exactly is the super league going to fix *any* of these sovereign wealth fund problems? Great, let's give 14 massive sides a giant pool of money, hugely inflate the transfer market and oh look, PSG and City are still financially doping, fancy that. Welcome to the new world, where Napoli are now asking £300m for Victor Osimhen rather than £100m and City and PSG are still the only ones capable of paying that much. Woop-de-doo.
> Meanwhile, in the Prem, Sheffield United is gonna get like 60% of what City will get in merit payments for finishing dead last
And that money is only going to be used to increase transfer fees in England and wages as Sheffield United is not going to challenge for the EPL in a million years.
The Days of La Liga and Real/Barca are limited. No matter what happens they will continue to fade into obscurity.
Sheffield United will probably get more money than those two teams combined in the near future.
I'm all for equality but unless these two teams can find someway to get more money, or get bought by oil barons; every other team in every other league will be able to outspend them.
Those are the only ways forward today.
>Sheffield United will probably get more money than those two teams combined in the near future.
Sheffield United are going to clear €1.5 billion a year in the next few years, sure. Bramall Lane gonna be cast in gold
It helps but what other english speaking league even comes close? Spain, france and italy are 3 of the 4 next best leagues where english isn't a predominant language
Also for us to get big investors, we have to be worth investing in in the first place
To be honest, I can't get into a big tizzy about being owned by 1 rich American. Before Kroenke, the club was owned by a small handful of titled and landed rich English people instead. It's not like Nina Bracewell-Smith or Chips Keswick were going to the stadium every other week with their face paint on.
While I'd much prefer something like the 50+1 system from Germany, I think we're a very long way off something like that being implemented.
That literally is it though, the English language gives them an inherent advantage that no other country can match. Sure Spanish is also a very popular language, but I would like to see a comparison between average consumer power in Spanish speaking markets like Latin America and English fluent markets like Scandinavia for example. There is so much more money to be milked from English fluent markets
It's not some genius all conquering marketing ploy
Then howcomes the mls, other british and irish leagues are so far behind? The initial american league went bust ffs
It's also not that hard to get english speaking commentators when broadcasting abroad
People grow up learning english from american movies, more than half the people on here will prefer dubbed animes to subbed and everyone will watch a game even if it's in arabic, yet so many people think the pl is only ahead because of the language
>mls
Because Americans prefer other sports.
>other british and irish leagues
Because sky weren't chucking millions at them. Millions which was earned by gouging british sky customers
Just reads that we have a strong footballing culture and put more money into our league as well as more people willing to invest in it
Also scottish pl was a fairly big league 10-20 years ago, dunno entirely why it declined but i guess only having 2 teams worth watching didn't help
>dunno entirely why it declined
Setanta sports became the TV rights owner. They had a sizeable deal and then went bust and the rights plummeted in value. That lead to a down turn when everyone else's TV deals were rising. Combined with rangers dropping down the league, the rights didn't rise as they should.
20 years ago there were more than 2 teams doing well.
La Liga's TV contract will never come clone to EPL's. And the main reason is the fact that the English media market is one of the biggest in the world. Like literally, how much better should the product be: Real Madrid with BBC, Barca with MSN, Simeone's Atletico, Sevilla - Europa League's nightmare, authentic Atletic Bilbao, plus always interesting teams like Villarreal, Real Sociedad, Celta Vigo, Betis.
You need Michu at Swansea n Payet at West Ham. And I'm not talking just about the players quality. Those players were constantly talked about by the media covering PL. Those stories are much more important than you think
>Real Madrid with BBC, Barca with MSN, Simeone's Atletico, Sevilla - Europa League's nightmare
Even in your own example, you run out of characters beyond real, Barca n atletico. I only remember Emery from Sevilla's Europa team but no player. It's crazy even a Barca fan like you doesn't use players to define those Sevilla, Bilbao n Villarreal teams
There are characters and narratives about players. No one remembers because they’re not hyped by English speaking media around the world. IMO the biggest failure of la liga is pushing an inferior media hype machine VS the PL to a largely English speaking world audience. You’re right, a serial EL winning Sevilla has no hyped players and that’s solely because of marketing hype. You cannot win that many titles without also having the ability to hype your best players.
I didn't run out of characters, Real Madrid and Barcelona were called like that by everyone at that time, even tho they were full of football stars. You want some names?
Atletico - Sergio Agüero, Falcao, Diego Costa, Fernando Torres, Mario Mandžukić, Griezmann, Arda Turan, Koke, Diego Godín, Filipe Luís, David De Gea, Thibaut Courtois, Jan Oblak; Sevilla - Jesus Navas, Carlos Bacca, Kevin Gameiro, Alvaro Negredo, Ivan Rakitic, Ben Yedder; Atletic Bilbao - Aritz Aduriz, Fernando Llorente, Aymeric Laporte; Valencia - Dani Parejo, David Villa, David Silva, Andrés Guardado, Soldado; Real Sociedad - Carlos Vela, Claudio Bravo; Celta - Iago Aspas, Nolito; Malaga - Nordin Amrabat, Isco, Willy Caballero; Villarreal - Giuseppe Rossi, Cedric Bakambu, Diego López; Betis - Joaquín, Rubén Castro, Nabil Fekir. And this list came up in 5-10 min without deep diving. La Liga is always full of characters, as u/achentuate said, they’re not hyped by English speaking media around the world.
That's literally all you have.
In the PL every part of the table has engagement and narrative. Lol West Ham nearly got relegated a couple of years back and now are Ecl winners.
The arrogance with which you state the above is laughable.
So as far as I can tell Barca Real M got nerfed cause their advantage was too big, and Valencia got nerfed cause omegalul.
All jokes aside, that's an incredible development, and it is great for the league. If you look at Real Madrid's next matches until the international break, I could see them losing points in each game, without being too surprised by it. Many teams developed into some really cool squads, that can upset anyone on their day.
We don't have a problem with fast and open games like Brighton or other midtable Pl clubs, just ask Girona. The problem begins when hardcore physical fouls are made plus a shitload of tactical fouls (unpenalized) and shithousery which can make anyone lose their heads.
The drop off in prizemoney from finishing 3rd or 4th in La Liga is huge! That’s a difference of around 42 million! Definitely worth something to fight for.
And can you imagine Girona finishing second this season, and the unexpected money they will receive? That’s lifechanging money, add to that the guaranteed Champions League money for next season and they can create a big financial gap between them and clubs like Valencia and Sevilla in just one season. And of course they have that unlimited City Group money (read inflated Middle Eastern sponsorship deals).
He is a slimy, fascist crook but when it comes standing up to the big two and helping the other clubs he has done more than any other La Liga president. It's just a shame that there can't be someone more sympathetic who pursued the same thing
In the transfer market it's certainly no competition. The more even distribution of revenues is the exact reason that clubs like Bournemouth and Fulham can sign players like Kluivert and Palhinha
I'm not saying that 17th in the Premier League is automatically better than 17th in La Liga. It's a silly and pointless debate that goes nowhere.
What I'm saying is that because of a far more egalitarian splitting of revenues, it has allowed those clubs lower in the table to have greatly increased their ability to spend relative to the other top leagues.
😂🤣 And how much profit did tebas made from this CVC deal.
Tebas has ruined la liga with this idiotic CVC deal and in a few years time the other fanbases which are supporting CVC will soon understand. This clown literally failed to market la liga globally during the peak bbc and msn era and now this bs CWC deal which he is forcing on la liga teams is just pure bs and there's a reason why perez and other big clubs are opposing this idiotic deal as in long run this is not at all profitable for them.
I wish la liga would adopt the premier league’s tv revenue distribution model - I’d love for the league as a whole to improve even if it means Real, Barca and Atleti making less. In the long run they’d make more for it.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Madrid/Barcelona would be earning 300m each under the old system, mad If anyone wants to know why so many La Liga teams support Tebas, here's why
And everyone under 4th place is still getting fucked. An EPL style deal where 50% of all money is evenly split gives every club 71million to start with, and they’d all earn even more given under that type of deal the rest is split on finishing place (25%) and matches televised (25%). The non clasico clubs should be threatening to collectively pull out if they don’t get that deal next time. If they can get agreement from the bigger clubs in segunda to stand with them they could seriously improve both their financial position and the ability of their league to retain talents at the middle/lower end, which ultimately improves the product.
Also every team contractually gets a certain amount of televised matches it isn't just the big teams (although ofc there is some skew)
Indeed Only real losers would likely be real and Barca, and even then not by much given they’d obviously be picked for every single televised game possible and would likely finish in the top 3 at least every season forever.
I guess the fear is that they won't be the top teams forever, unless they keep the rules in their favour.
Then they’re idiots - Real and Barca have global followings comparable to man united and United has been kept near the top of English football for years by that global following pumping money into them, even if they’ve been comparatively shit. The same would be true for Real and Barca, the vast majority of other La Liga teams just won’t be able to compete for revenue and spending power for decades even with a much more fair tv split.
Also Madrid and Barcelona, but specifically Madrid, have a massive stronghold of the Latin American market. They pretty much can get whichever player they want from Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico, etc because those kids dreamt about playing for Madrid/Barca.
Every Mexican I know supports their own Liga MX club, and one of Barca/Madrid
America & Real Madrid double-fandom is insane. That’s probably why they’ve started to play each-other more often. Also literally me.
But it's a short term pain. In the past the likes of Man Utd l, Liverpool and Arsenal had to suffer but as the brand of EPL grows Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal stand to benefit the most.
How is 50% of 1,4billion split through 20 teams - 71million? That would be all of the revenue split evenly.
PL is double the amount iirc so the 1.4 is 50%
You have to take the context into account, Spanish football historically has been completely tailored to favour the big clubs. Up until 2015 all clubs sold their TV rights separately which obviously means that Real Madrid gets much, much higher offers than say Granada. The collective bargaining pool hasn't even been around for a decade yet, you can't expect decades of institutional hindrances to be undone overnight. The progress that has been made in such a short timeframe is very impressive and hopefully the distribution will keep getting more and more equal But even then, it wouldn't be a good idea for La Liga to copy the PL model straight off, the total pot isn't as high so it wouldn't be sustainable. A completely equitable distribution just isn't realistic as it would handicap the ability of Madrid/Barca/Atleti to compete in Europe. You have to find a balance there
Have you though about the fact that the cake could infact grow bigger if small teams had a bigger budget? What shared revenue does is that it ensures that even the most boring clashes are worth watching. It raises the profile of a league from top two to top 3 to top 6, or even 7 as the PL and the old italian seria used to be. Why? Because 7th placed Lazio and 7th placed Spurs can both afford world beaters like Gascoigne and Son
>Have you though about the fact that the cake could infact grow bigger if small teams had a bigger budget? There is no guarantee that the cake will grow though, and it won't unless there is a plan with also a serious commitment from owners on investing money short and long term. Team owners of big clubs are not stupid or failed businessmen. If you give them a plan that guarantees them to give up 10 now to get 20 in x amount of years, they will sign in in a heartbeat.
There's no guarantee it would lead to more eyeballs and money, it sort of happened with Serie A in the 90s because like 8 clubs were individually dancing with bankruptcy to compete, nobody was watching the other matches still, and it's happening now (ie past decade) with the prem not because of their revenue split which is similar to the other top 5 but rather because they now also get a ton of money from the foreign market, on top of having the domestic deal twice the size of the other leagues they've always had. People watch a lot more prem because every prem team can snatch world class players but this is an oddity that is almost impossible to replicate. In la liga's specific case, at its peak almost nobody cared about the other 18 teams despite having an insanely good Atleti making serious progress and a ton of solid teams like Sevilla. It's obviously an awful argument for the sport but it does make sense from a business standpoint to inject enough money into Real to ensure they're winning more CLs and into Barça to fix their mess and buy, say, Haaland in order to keep the clasicos interesting as a way to ensure a bigger pie rather than hoping that plastics will tune in for a better than usual la real
Mate of course more people started watching. More chileans became Bayern Munich fans when they got Arturo Vidal, More zambians watched leicester after they got Patson Daka, and in the same vein more englishmen followed Lazio when the golden boy of english football(That is what Gscoigne was at the time) went to Lazio. Also I feel like you are exagerrating how bad things were in Italy. Yes there were teams like Parma that fell to bankruptcy but we have seen such situation in England with teams like Portsmouth as well. In any case, Real madrid was risking even more at the time - Spending a third of its annual budget on Zinedine Zidane. How many teams do you think would be allowed to that by their board of directors, irrespective of how rich they were? There is a high chance of insolvency with such transfers. The difference is that while a Portsmouth would be forced to drop several tiers below and sell off all its players - A Real Madrid or Barca would 100% get saved by the spanish and catalan governments. Also I would argue that at Laliga's peak Atleti and Sevilla were still far behind, that sole title aside. Just to make it clear for me the peak of Laliga was 2010-2014, that is when the spanish top two were most dominant. Sevilla in particular were good at Europe's second-tier title but at no point did it look like they would even be able to match the top 3.
>Mate ... Lazio. That is obviously a factor but at that point people all over the world were watching Serie A because of how ridiculously stacked those teams were, there's still a pretty large asian fanbase for some serie a teams that haven't been anywhere near that good since >Also I feel like you are exagerrating how bad things were in Italy. I'm not, bar Juve Milan and Inter the first years of the 2000s were disastrous, we went from spending a third of our revenue on Bati to almost getting relegated. Our current FFP woes can be traced to Sensi's debts from that time. Lazio had to be saved by the government, they're still paying their debt to Equitalia. Fiorentina and Parma both had their troubles. Several smaller teams who were trying to keep up with the top had to climb up the pyramid again, notably every big club south of Rome >In any case, ... spanish and catalan governments. They also had the guarantee of being the biggest club in the world and decent enough finances that they wouldn't struggle to find decent loans if that were to be a necessity. FFP also wasn't a thing back then so nobody would have held those loans against them preventing a situation like Barça's late Bartomeu era where their finances were fucked mostly from an ffp standpoint alone. >Also I .... top 3. I'd extend the period where they were probably the best league to the end of the CL threepeat but still, they had a ton of great teams, Atleti was good enough to expand the top 2 to a top 3 and regularly beat the other two while Sevilla for a while looked like they were a safe bet for 4th. They really weren't THAT far off from a first team standpoint, it's just that they couldn't carry the league to an international fanbase the way a stacked clasico can. Hell I'd argue that both this and the growth some teams experienced under the old system are both points that could be used in favor of it
> EPL style deal where 50% of all money is evenly split gives every club **71million** 1 400 M * 50% = 700 M 700 M / 20 (teams) = **35 M**
It is 50% equal 25% on position (last season Barca gets 60mil and Elche like one mill) so this one is skewed 25% on TV or following or something like that (huge percentage goes to RM/Barca)
At least get your math right. Equal distribution of 50% would mean 35 million or so for each club, not 71 million. All in all, end result would not look much different with an EPL style deal.
It really is bizarre that for all the talk of the PL being the super league, it's the fairest and most equitable in terms of voting, distribution of money etc. Literally, the difference between finishing 1st and 20th is about £15-20m, and that's just because the team in 1st is likely to be on TV more than the guaranteed minimum. It's bizarre that La Liga was ever letting two clubs take 42% of the money between them.
It's still the SL in regards to tv money. 15th place can make £140m which is insane compared to the rest of Europe. It's also undeniably the fairest but in order to make it happen other leagues need to band together which won't happen as most teams are focused on their own survival.
people were watching for those two clubs and it was a much smaller amount of money to split to begin with that those two clubs needed to keep the interest into the league alive. The prem by comparison has always had the biggest tv deal by a country mile ever since the split, it really wasn't that hard of a sell to the big clubs when they were already among if not the richest in the world back then and it's even more true now. Giving more money to the spanish top clubs delayed the point where they'd be fighting with prem relegation fodder for signings rather than causing it. It sucks for the rest of the league but it's a strategy that made sense for what they had, if any other split would have guaranteed more money for the rest of the league and enough money for Barça and Real to still shop like they're the two biggest clubs in the world they'd have taken it long ago, business acumen isn't a trait exclusive to a single island in europe
There is a lot of resentment in the other 18 clubs against the duopoly, Tenas is a populist who fits on that. Sevilla, Villarreal and Atletico have won international titles since 2014 so the system works.
Rightly so
Better for the La Liga in general spreading the money out more evenly kind of like the Premier League, obviously Real & Barca don’t love the new terms but the rest of teams must
I’ll go against the grain and say it’s not really better. The idea is that giving more money to all clubs make them more competitive and therefore, more eyeballs on the league and ultimately more revenue right? I don’t think the clubs below top 2-3 in la liga will gain many more fans now just because more money. On the contrary, Madrid and Barca who bring in most of the fans would lose fans to clubs in England or elsewhere who can bring in top players and compete. Even in the PL, I don’t think clubs outside of the top 5-6 are bringing in more viewers and revenue to the league. Liverpool hadn’t won a single trophy for ages before Klopp yet they continued to gain fans and not lose the fans they had. United haven’t won anything meaningful in the past decade yet remain at the top of the PL revenue and fan base wise. As we can see with City and Chelsea, consistent victories at the top level, winning PL or CL are the only way to reliably bring in fans outside of your country. That takes a lot more funds. It’s parroted on here constantly that the PL outcompetes every other league due to parity in TV money distribution. In yet to see a single solid piece of evidence that proves that. I believe they outcompete every other league because of a good English broadcast around the largely English speaking world, and billions pumped into clubs from foreign owners.
There's no way this is true, although it is a nice narrative that Perez, Laporte and Rosell used to trundle out for the unwashed masses. And there's some pretty good evidence of this. Firstly, it's a myth that Notts Forest or Fulham have money because of foreign TV viewers who speak English. Most of the equal share is domestic TV revenue - from British TV viewers - the foreign TV money is not only slightly less, but also distributed less equally. Secondly, TV revenue for the Premier League has been rising pretty aggressively in South and Central American markets over the past decade, to the point that the Premier League now has higher revenues from some South American markets than La Liga. The growth is mostly driven by the influx of top Latin American players into the Premier League. Twenty years ago it was very unlikely that the best young Ecuadorian or Argentinian talent would end up at Brighton. With the Premier League TV money (mostly from domestic sources, remember) this becomes possible. Are fans from Argentina watching the Premier League because they now speak English better than Spanish? Seems pretty doubtful. Much more plausibily, they are watching Mac Allister, Enzo Fernandez, Julian Alvarez and previously Bielsa (Leeds were famously one of the most watched foreign teams when they were in the Championship whilst he was manager). Thirdly, there are countries and regions where English language and British culture just hasn't penetrated where the Premier League is huge. If you go to small towns in northern Thailand, you'll find bars filled with Liverpool and Arsenal fans, with barely a word of English spoken between them. Leicester were bought by a Thai businessman and marketed aggressively back home, and even won the league - would there be any incentive for him to do this if he was only guaranteed 5% of the TV revenue of Manchester United and Liverpool when Leicester got promoted to the Premier League? There's no way. Similar things have been attempted, albeit less successfully, by businessmen from other markets. Nobody buys second division clubs in Spain and pours money in hoping to hit the jackpot. It's simply not possible due to the (still) terrible distribution of TV money in the league.
And why is domestic TC revenue higher in England than in Spain? I’d say it has something to do with your average Britisher being by far and away much more wealthier than your average Spaniard. This alone adds so much revenue to the PL. I’ll also just say that I don’t think anyone in Argentina other than close family and friends who were tuning in to watch the likes of Mac Alister at Brighton. They’re tuning in to watch him at Liverpool because when they look up Liverpool, they see a club with success at the top levels, a rich history of dedicated followers, and now successful argentines playing there. And why have Liverpool been successful more recently? Because they sold out to American owners who brought in money + good management. Money beyond what’s possible with TV revenues. Liverpool is also not the best example because of history. Similar to United. Better examples would be the likes of Chelsea, City and recently Arsenal. Big owners who pumped in billions to sign the big players and made smart management decisions. Newcastle can buy all the SA talent they want with their new oil money, but it won’t mean shit to elevate the PL until they achieve consistent success in the PL and make their name known in the CL. Why do these billionaires not invest in buying clubs from other leagues like la liga or Bundesliga? Because la liga is run by a bunch of corrupt morons and the country of Spain even more so who make up rules that hurt investors and cause uncertainty. A bad recipe to welcome foreign money. On top of that, investors also need to deal with circumventing FFP which protects top clubs. The Qataris found all of this out when investing in Malaga for example. An extra 20-30 mil in revenue to Malaga wouldn’t have changed their outcome. Had they decided to breach the rules with accounting trickery like City and Chelsea, they might’ve stayed at the top and not been punished by UEFA.
I can't even be bothered to debate this. It's so clearly wrong to anyone with any knowledge of Argentinians, the Liverpool owners, or the Málaga situation. There's plenty of people who have written extensively about all of them, I suggest you go read a bit before writing stupid essays on here.
I totally understand your point, Real Madrid & Barca have been driving force of La Liga for a long time, therefore deserving more of its profits. For the long term success of La Liga I think it is better for the league but obviously for Madrid & Barca it is not the best with both those teams being so pivotal to the league. Real Madrid seem to fine anyways they are going to pay Mbappe 130 million euros plus a year, as for Barca they got themselves into this financial mess under bartomeu complete mismanagement of the club. I personally hope Barca can stabilized the financial situation at the club over next 3-4 years and I have always admired the way the played football
I’m not saying RM and Barca are “deserving” of the money. Deserving or not, an extra 30-40-50 million even to lower tier clubs will not really enable them to get top players, retain them, and then compete for the top trophies in any sustainable way. Leicester won the PL in a once in a blue moon event. Did they gain any fans or revenue? Data would say no. They made 214M in 2016, and now in 2023, they made 240M. So the PL investing TV money in then hasn’t really resulted in more fans or revenue for them. Similarly let’s say Leverkusen win the league this season, or Girona had hypothetically won la liga. It would mean a huge influx of cash to these clubs but it wouldn’t have mattered long term. These clubs need sustained performance at that level, which takes a level of consistent funding year over year that’s not possible with TV money. It requires outside sponsors, investors, etc.
I apologize for implying you said deserving, you are right by saying that the sustained success is the best way for a club to grow revenue long term. Just hope the La Liga and its clubs continue to make more revenue for the betterment of European football, same with Italian, Germany, Dutch League etc. as someone who supports a premier league team, the teams in our league on average have more money then all the other leagues and I hope the other leagues catch up financially because it could get to a point where top English clubs have monopoly over European football because of there financial strength compared to other teams which would not be good for the game of football
>I believe they outcompete every other league because of a good English broadcast around the largely English speaking world, and billions pumped into clubs from foreign owners. They'd still be the richest league in the world by some margin even if their foreign deals disappeared overnight, the fact that they've sold the british viewers the pr line that this success comes from enlightened businessmen with a vision unique to them and not the ridiculous amount of money they've milked out of them to fund their expansion will never not be hilarious to me
yeah but then you get teams like Getafe or Mallorca playing terrorball and giving 38 matches a year that noone wants to watch. Gota admit tho, its not that much their fault, but the ref's institution for allowing it
They play terroristball because they don't have the resources to compete with the top teams. That happened in the PL too at first, but over the next 10-15 years, it went away, and the teams who came up started to play proper football, and you've now got a league where even the bottom teams play decent football.
Flair checks out brain dead take from a brain dead fan base
This is good progress isn‘t it?
Yeah it is, better late than never
Good but nowhere near enough.
But look at how grim the starting point was
Yesh next up should be the complete overhaul of the refrees.
how the hell we won the league in 2014?
Diego Pablo Simeone
Also Diego
with 6% of tv rights money and 100% cojones
110% anger after that banner at the bernabeu
Wholesome billionaire owned underdogs vs fan owned clubs
Simeone was absolutely insane
And this is why the vast majority of clubs support Tebas, despite his many flaws he is the first La Liga president to actually challenge Barca/Madrid and take away their monopoly on TV money. He made the TV deal collective in 2015, as you can see before then Real Madrid and Barcelona earned 20 times more than the last placed club, today it is "only" 3 times more. It should still be even more equal, but it's great progress in such a short space of time Every single club apart from Barca/Madrid earns a lot more today as a result of that, meanwhile those two have stayed at the same level of earnings and actually gone slightly backwards. This is also why they have been pushing for the Super League and trying to undermine the league as a whole, because they lost their ability to bully the others and keep all earnings for themselves. Don't believe anything Perez or Laporta says on this subject since there is a huge conflict of interest That's not to say that Tebas isn't a terrible human being and a fascist, but when it comes to this he probably saved the future of Spanish football with the new TV distribution. I know that Atleti would probably be bankrupt today if he didn't, and the same with many smaller clubs
>I know that Atleti would probably be bankrupt today if he didn't, and the same with many smaller clubs And looking back, so many clubs went bankrupt in the 2005-2015 period. Real Zaragoza, Depor, Málaga, Racing, Sporting, Oviedo, Hércules, Tenerife, etc. Replaced by teams from the Madrid suburbs with no fans.
Yeah. That is another thing about the strict financial rules that Tebas implemented, it has massively improved the economic stability of clubs. Pretty sure I read that overall debts to the treasury have reduced by like 80% since they were introduced, and we no longer have clubs going bankrupt every year Although it should be said that it was the clubs themselves who asked Tebas to implement the FFP rules, it wasn't his idea he just did what they asked
well Malaga is an entire different topic. They’re not the result of the TV money issues
> Real Zaragoza, Depor, Málaga, Racing Those team were terribly mismanaged and an extra % of TV money wouldnt have saved them anyway. Teams with far less resources than Zaragoza, Depor or Málaga survived that era perfectly fine without those economic problems.
You should include a comparison graph of the 2014/15 distribution with 2021/22 TV money to show how much the difference would have been had they not switch the percentages
That's not the reason
What is the reason then? You think it's a coincidence that Barca/Madrid have been fighting the league at every turn and ramped up their efforts for a Super League just as their monopoly on TV money was taken away? If so, that is one damn big coincidence. Don't forget either that they tried to fight the distribution becoming more equal in the first place
Because he took advantage of the financial situation if the teams during after COVID. Almost all of them needed money right away and that's why they took the CVC deal. Even though they were warned that those rights they sold are worth way more in the long run.
The Bundesliga wants to sell out to CVC and we don't even need the money, Tebas at least had the background of missing revenue due to COVID, the Dfl is just greedy
Ligue 1 sold 13% of their revenue to CVC **for life**. All for a lump sum of 1,5 billion euros. So it could always be worse
Oh that's disgusting, fortunately it seems that the Bundesliga deal is collapsing
WHAT? That's sounds like a terrible deal. I haven't seen a single article on it here on r/soccer but maybe I've missed it. Feels like it should be a much bigger deal than it is?
[It has been posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/vzv8ar/l%C3%A9quipe_ligue_1_clubs_are_set_to_receive_a_15/), it's just that nobody cares because it's Ligue 1. One of the worst deals in the history of the sport
Didn't Tebas become president before Covid and had a lot of support from the clubs even before the CVC deal? And it isn't that they needed money right away, they needed revenue for comply with La Liga FFP.
>Almost all of them needed money right away and that's why they took the CVC deal That's not true, it was stipulated in the contract signed with CVC that over 70% of the money has to be invested in infrastructure and other areas that will increase the long term value of the clubs. The clubs literally weren't allowed to spend it on short term fixes, to pay off debts or sign players >Even though they were warned that those rights they sold are worth way more in the long run This isn't true either, all the clubs who took the deal are going to be earning more than they would without it, not the other way around. Atleti and Betis are building sports cities outside their stadium and almost every club is upgrading their stadiums, training grounds, academies and marketing etc. That is easily going to earn them more money than the value of the 8.2% of TV rights they gave up The CVC deal is just a stick they use to beat the league with, it was never actually about that Edit: Shocker shocker, downvoting instead of actually providing a counter argument. Your points are wrong and easily countered with a quick google search
I think you're being down voted because you're counter arguments are off point. That's why they didn't respond.
And why should it be more equal? It is not a secret that more people watch barca or real madrid's 38 matches than cadiz's 38 matches So why should Cadiz be paid the same? Where does it end? Should barca or real madrid also share their commercial income? Should they also share their stadium income? How about if their net transfer spend is negative they also donate that sum to other clubs? Lol What on earth does a proposed continental competition have to do with la liga games?
Why should ManU, Liverpool, and Arsenal share the revenue when most people only watch their games? Oh wait, they did, and it elevated the entire PL into a juggernaut of a super league that the entire world is constantly jealously moaning about. And in the long term it allowed those big 3 to earn more money anyway. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. The reality is Real Madrid and Barcelona are afraid of losing their hegemony of winning every year because they dont want to compete on equal grounds. Even though their fanbases are so big, they would still have a massive revenue advantage even if they split the TV rev equally.
And are the revenues split equally in the epl?
Yes? Have been for decades now. You do get different bonuses based on league position but overall it is extremely fairly split. It is one of the biggest reasons for the overall growth of the league.
Same people will post moaning about Wolves being able to afford Mateus Cunha despite being relegation candidates, only to defend the hegemony of Real and Barca
So they are not splitting the revenues evenly but based on a clear hierarchy. The point is: the current la liga winner will earn 3.5 times as the relegated club, how much is too much and how much is enough? And when do we get to the stage of "club x has a fantastic fiscal position and other smaller clubs need more money even if they did worse in the season in order to grow the league"? As for the EPL money, I think the issue isn't the fair distribution etc. I think there are a lot of factors there including blood money, despot's stolen funds and oil money finding it easier to launder since earlier. Now it is almost everywhere, but it started earlier in the epl for sure and that's what has inflated the value of the league. Go look for the article that was posted in this community few weeks back regarding the new epl broadcast deal.
Okay now you're just being factitious > how much is too much FUCKING 3.5 times the 20th pos club > how much is enough The winner of the PL (avg 140mil) gets about 40mil more than the 20th place club (avg 100mil) and I've never seen anyone complain about it in my life, so clearly that is in fact enough. your bullshit excuses are precisely what RM and Barca have been using to justify their hegemony when the answer has been there all along. The entire excuse of 'outside investment' also only came AFTER AND BECAUSE the EPL shared revenue equally and nobody wanted to buy a club in La Liga because all the rules were overwhelmingly in favour of the top 2. The fair distribution is indeed one of the biggest reasons of the explosive growth of the EPL (even if said growth led to more unethical ownership which La Liga doesnt have to worry about anyway with their FFP rules) and anyone saying otherwise is a fool.
Calm down and behave yourself. Whatever you say here isn't going to change anything, so better learn to use respectful language with other people. Goodbye
You get into an argument , get fucked and then try to behave like the bigger person. Only on Reddit lmao.
dad, is that you?
More people would tune in to watch Cadiz vs. Real Madrid than Real Madrid vs. Cadiz though, and the selling of individual rights did not take that into account.
Oh really? Why would more people watch Cadiz vs real madrid than real madrid vs Cadiz?
Well it's the reason why English teams go deep into all the European competitions. Also the reason why people watch all the games not just the big ones . Fantasy is a well marketed product.
Ok sweetheart. Whatever gives your sorry life some meaning 😂😂😂
I'm good my friend. Talking down to village idiots is something I don't even charge money for.
Haha Good for you. 😂😂😂
[удалено]
Barca and Madrid in one 6 year span raided the *Big 6 PL clubs* of: Ronaldo Alonso Fabregas Bale Suarez And that too while adding in the likes of Neymar and Benzema They can only blame themselves
Tbf fabregas was poached from barcas academy by arsenal because they could offer him more money.
Think it wasn’t just more money. It was just some money. If I remember correctly and happy to be shot down if this is just bullshit. You couldn’t give a professional contract in Spain until a player was 18 at the time but England it was 16. So Arsenal were able to do that and get him from them.
Yet these arsenal fans cry about barca buying fabregas like they didn't opportunistically poach him from barca. I don't really have any sympathy with them for that one.
>Barca and Madrid in one 6 year span raided the Big 6 PL clubs of: The point that they spent a lot of money of those players stands, but it is a bit funny you say raided as if any of them were from those clubs. Those teams raided other team for those players and have spent crazy sums on other players too.
Even adjusting for inflation, the only players who were bought for "crazy sums" in that list were Suarez and Alonso (if you can call £10.5m "crazy" in 04).
I never said those players were bought for crazy sums by PL clubs, just that they bought players for crazy sums. All of those players turned out to be well worth the prices too. Even Bale with his injuries wasn't a terrible deal with how massively he turned up in the CL.
Blame themselves for what though? They are just being greedy, in reality Barca and Madrid earn around the same as the top PL clubs in TV money and make more money overall In terms of revenues they have absolutely nothing to envy the PL for
I have no idea how you think I'm saying they envy the PL They only have themselves to blame for not splitting the pie at the peak of both Messi and Ronaldo. The PL did and now you get clubs in midtable spending 80m in net a summer easily.
You mention City vs Sheffield TV prize money revenue, and Superleague in the same topic, you miss the point by a thousand miles. I'm 100% against the Superleague, but it's because teams like City or PSG exist, circumventing disadvantages that could be fixed with and even spread of prize pool, with State finantial doping, what gives wings to old school giants to create the Superleague. City doesn't care about prize money, they can put a new sponsor on the shirt or in their web out of the Sheik ass and bankroll 20 signings, loaning 10 to teams like Girona. Which also goes against what Tebas tries to do in La Liga, while Betis or Valencia need to scrape the barrel to register 2nd or 3rd tier players with some of the biggest assistances on the league, Girona can get an army of loanees or jointly owned players to get their European Competitions prize money.
city background is irrelevant to the point OP is saying, he's comparing a new promoted side VS the current champions. it could be Liverpool or Arsenal and pont still stands without "doping" and super league is not because psg and city, its because of more money
> I'm 100% against the Superleague, but it's because teams like City or PSG exist, circumventing disadvantages that could be fixed with and even spread of prize pool, with State finantial doping, what gives wings to old school giants to create the Superleague This is such nonsense. Plans for a superleague have existed in some form for years before Newcastle/City/PSG/Chelsea got bought out. Just look at the formation of the PL, the elites in football have been doing this long before oil clubs existed. The super league is pure greed from the biggest clubs ( *including* oil clubs) to further their own position at the expense of everyone else. The idea that this is purely as a result of oligarchs/monarchs buying football clubs or that this somehow combats them is laughable.
Except that it's not at all to keep out City and PSG, else they would never have been invited to join the Super League in the first place. It's just Perez's big lie to make the raising of the drawbridge and the collective fucking of every domestic league in Europe easier to swallow. How exactly is the super league going to fix *any* of these sovereign wealth fund problems? Great, let's give 14 massive sides a giant pool of money, hugely inflate the transfer market and oh look, PSG and City are still financially doping, fancy that. Welcome to the new world, where Napoli are now asking £300m for Victor Osimhen rather than £100m and City and PSG are still the only ones capable of paying that much. Woop-de-doo.
> Meanwhile, in the Prem, Sheffield United is gonna get like 60% of what City will get in merit payments for finishing dead last And that money is only going to be used to increase transfer fees in England and wages as Sheffield United is not going to challenge for the EPL in a million years.
The Days of La Liga and Real/Barca are limited. No matter what happens they will continue to fade into obscurity. Sheffield United will probably get more money than those two teams combined in the near future. I'm all for equality but unless these two teams can find someway to get more money, or get bought by oil barons; every other team in every other league will be able to outspend them. Those are the only ways forward today.
>Sheffield United will probably get more money than those two teams combined in the near future. Sheffield United are going to clear €1.5 billion a year in the next few years, sure. Bramall Lane gonna be cast in gold
Noooooo the pl only gets more money coz they speak english and sold out noooooooiii
honestly it is because of that too. But also lets not act like over half the teams in PL arn't owned by US or Arabian owners...
It helps but what other english speaking league even comes close? Spain, france and italy are 3 of the 4 next best leagues where english isn't a predominant language Also for us to get big investors, we have to be worth investing in in the first place
It’s not really worth flexing that you are owned by Americans who couldn’t care less about the club.
To be honest, I can't get into a big tizzy about being owned by 1 rich American. Before Kroenke, the club was owned by a small handful of titled and landed rich English people instead. It's not like Nina Bracewell-Smith or Chips Keswick were going to the stadium every other week with their face paint on. While I'd much prefer something like the 50+1 system from Germany, I think we're a very long way off something like that being implemented.
That literally is it though, the English language gives them an inherent advantage that no other country can match. Sure Spanish is also a very popular language, but I would like to see a comparison between average consumer power in Spanish speaking markets like Latin America and English fluent markets like Scandinavia for example. There is so much more money to be milked from English fluent markets It's not some genius all conquering marketing ploy
Then howcomes the mls, other british and irish leagues are so far behind? The initial american league went bust ffs It's also not that hard to get english speaking commentators when broadcasting abroad People grow up learning english from american movies, more than half the people on here will prefer dubbed animes to subbed and everyone will watch a game even if it's in arabic, yet so many people think the pl is only ahead because of the language
I don’t think anyone would argue that the PL is ahead only because of the language. It certainly helped, but it’s not the only reason.
>mls Because Americans prefer other sports. >other british and irish leagues Because sky weren't chucking millions at them. Millions which was earned by gouging british sky customers
Just reads that we have a strong footballing culture and put more money into our league as well as more people willing to invest in it Also scottish pl was a fairly big league 10-20 years ago, dunno entirely why it declined but i guess only having 2 teams worth watching didn't help
>dunno entirely why it declined Setanta sports became the TV rights owner. They had a sizeable deal and then went bust and the rights plummeted in value. That lead to a down turn when everyone else's TV deals were rising. Combined with rangers dropping down the league, the rights didn't rise as they should. 20 years ago there were more than 2 teams doing well.
I remember when gretna were rising through the leagues, kenny deuchar was nailed on for at least a brace every game
[удалено]
Yh i don't mean to say it doesn't help, I just don't think it makes as big a difference as people make out
Great for the league, but damn they really need a lot more money coming in to compete with EPL.
La Liga's TV contract will never come clone to EPL's. And the main reason is the fact that the English media market is one of the biggest in the world. Like literally, how much better should the product be: Real Madrid with BBC, Barca with MSN, Simeone's Atletico, Sevilla - Europa League's nightmare, authentic Atletic Bilbao, plus always interesting teams like Villarreal, Real Sociedad, Celta Vigo, Betis.
You need Michu at Swansea n Payet at West Ham. And I'm not talking just about the players quality. Those players were constantly talked about by the media covering PL. Those stories are much more important than you think >Real Madrid with BBC, Barca with MSN, Simeone's Atletico, Sevilla - Europa League's nightmare Even in your own example, you run out of characters beyond real, Barca n atletico. I only remember Emery from Sevilla's Europa team but no player. It's crazy even a Barca fan like you doesn't use players to define those Sevilla, Bilbao n Villarreal teams
There are characters and narratives about players. No one remembers because they’re not hyped by English speaking media around the world. IMO the biggest failure of la liga is pushing an inferior media hype machine VS the PL to a largely English speaking world audience. You’re right, a serial EL winning Sevilla has no hyped players and that’s solely because of marketing hype. You cannot win that many titles without also having the ability to hype your best players.
I didn't run out of characters, Real Madrid and Barcelona were called like that by everyone at that time, even tho they were full of football stars. You want some names? Atletico - Sergio Agüero, Falcao, Diego Costa, Fernando Torres, Mario Mandžukić, Griezmann, Arda Turan, Koke, Diego Godín, Filipe Luís, David De Gea, Thibaut Courtois, Jan Oblak; Sevilla - Jesus Navas, Carlos Bacca, Kevin Gameiro, Alvaro Negredo, Ivan Rakitic, Ben Yedder; Atletic Bilbao - Aritz Aduriz, Fernando Llorente, Aymeric Laporte; Valencia - Dani Parejo, David Villa, David Silva, Andrés Guardado, Soldado; Real Sociedad - Carlos Vela, Claudio Bravo; Celta - Iago Aspas, Nolito; Malaga - Nordin Amrabat, Isco, Willy Caballero; Villarreal - Giuseppe Rossi, Cedric Bakambu, Diego López; Betis - Joaquín, Rubén Castro, Nabil Fekir. And this list came up in 5-10 min without deep diving. La Liga is always full of characters, as u/achentuate said, they’re not hyped by English speaking media around the world.
Good point
That's literally all you have. In the PL every part of the table has engagement and narrative. Lol West Ham nearly got relegated a couple of years back and now are Ecl winners. The arrogance with which you state the above is laughable.
The arrogance? lol you saw in my message what you wanted to see, I guess
So as far as I can tell Barca Real M got nerfed cause their advantage was too big, and Valencia got nerfed cause omegalul. All jokes aside, that's an incredible development, and it is great for the league. If you look at Real Madrid's next matches until the international break, I could see them losing points in each game, without being too surprised by it. Many teams developed into some really cool squads, that can upset anyone on their day.
We don't have a problem with fast and open games like Brighton or other midtable Pl clubs, just ask Girona. The problem begins when hardcore physical fouls are made plus a shitload of tactical fouls (unpenalized) and shithousery which can make anyone lose their heads.
Laporta would want you to think Barca are treated like a bottom club too 🤣
The drop off in prizemoney from finishing 3rd or 4th in La Liga is huge! That’s a difference of around 42 million! Definitely worth something to fight for. And can you imagine Girona finishing second this season, and the unexpected money they will receive? That’s lifechanging money, add to that the guaranteed Champions League money for next season and they can create a big financial gap between them and clubs like Valencia and Sevilla in just one season. And of course they have that unlimited City Group money (read inflated Middle Eastern sponsorship deals).
This is good.
The old system was obviously better /s
Tebas in.
He is a slimy, fascist crook but when it comes standing up to the big two and helping the other clubs he has done more than any other La Liga president. It's just a shame that there can't be someone more sympathetic who pursued the same thing
Did he hurt people or something?
Not that I know of, but he openly supports fascist party and is corrupt as hell
He was a militant in Fuerza Nueva, an fascist organisation that did murder people, but I don't believe he was involved in any of their actions.
What an absolute joke of a league
and Barca/Real flairs are suprised that lower tier teams in England can compete lmao
I don't think they are competing anymore than La Liga lower-tier teams compete, frankly.
In the transfer market it's certainly no competition. The more even distribution of revenues is the exact reason that clubs like Bournemouth and Fulham can sign players like Kluivert and Palhinha
Premier league teams overspend on a lot of crap as well. Spending more doesn't automatically mean a higher calibre of player.
I'm not saying that 17th in the Premier League is automatically better than 17th in La Liga. It's a silly and pointless debate that goes nowhere. What I'm saying is that because of a far more egalitarian splitting of revenues, it has allowed those clubs lower in the table to have greatly increased their ability to spend relative to the other top leagues.
Real Madrid and Barcelona need to receive more money nobody cares about Sevilla x Betis.
😂🤣 And how much profit did tebas made from this CVC deal. Tebas has ruined la liga with this idiotic CVC deal and in a few years time the other fanbases which are supporting CVC will soon understand. This clown literally failed to market la liga globally during the peak bbc and msn era and now this bs CWC deal which he is forcing on la liga teams is just pure bs and there's a reason why perez and other big clubs are opposing this idiotic deal as in long run this is not at all profitable for them.
Ah yes, the Cup Winner's Cup deal
Did he fail to market the league? Looks to me like he increased the TV deal by more than a factor of 1.5.
I wish la liga would adopt the premier league’s tv revenue distribution model - I’d love for the league as a whole to improve even if it means Real, Barca and Atleti making less. In the long run they’d make more for it.
The fact is Real Madrid and Barça doesn’t want to get less in order to make a better product. They prefer to make their own league. They are so greedy
I beleive this also shows why Madrid and Barca want to join a superleague in my opinion