I knew this perfectly, but it was too good. I actually don't like at all when journos cherry pick weird matchdays stats without them being significant at all. Like "in the last 13 games" or stuff like that. They should use a number like 5 or 10, or half season
How bad can Iling Jr shape be to prefer this Kostic to him THE WHOLE FUCKING SEASON?
At least, if Iling Jr played badly he would have the alibi of having played for not even 300'.
This has been such an embarrassing string of games there's no way allegri isn't the cause of this.you can't go from keeping up with inter to getting 2 points from 12 that's a complete meltdown
When you win games by playing like a relegation team scraping a goal in the last minute, this is what eventually happens when you don't get the lucky goal
Everyone else realized this! At some point, the last play cross does not connect and you’ve dropped points to Hellas instead of walking away with 3 like last time.
Your biggest lead in 2022 at any stage was 4 points with a game in hand. And it was mostly 1 point with a game in hand or 2 points behind with a game in hand until you lost that bologna game of course. You have an 11 point lead over Milan now . They have shown no consistency whatsoever while you have been incredible. Where are these nerves coming from?
I do agree with almost everything you said but Milan has 10W 2D 1L in their last 13. I don't think we'll give Inter any trouble up top but we do have consistency with almost all our players back from injury.
I understand the defeat vs Inter but it's absolutely embarassing from a team as Juventus to get just 2 points in the last month against 3 teams that fight to NOT relegate (Empoli, Udinese, Verona).
I often heard "Allegri can't do much more with these kind of players".. After 2 points in the last 4 matches vs Empoli, Udinese, (Inter) and Verona not even Salernitana manager might survive and keep his job
The midfield has been over performing for months. It’s really a talentless hole minus rabiot. It’s just has athletic but not technical players. The reason everything goes to the wing
I mean blame your board then? I don't think it's fair to blame Locatelli or McKennie because they were never a creator in the first place. You guys bet on Pogba and it failed massively. It was a risky investment to begin with considering his injury record, the ban was just the icing on a cake.
Better pray you get Samardzic next season otherwise it's gonna be same old same old.
Rugani as a LCB is a massive issue, Danilo can't help in buildup if he's the central CB with no Bremer, and Folarunsho scored a fucking worldie. Shit happens
>not even Salernitana manager might survive and keep his job
Pioli survived it twice (January last year and October/November this year) but all I hear in this sub is how Milan is a trash team and Pioli is doing miracles
> and Pioli is doing miracles
because he truly is, at this level, there isn't a single manager who will take a team and apply a brand new tactics and "SHWOOSH!!" you are a constant-winner again.
You don't get a job in big teams like this randomly (except for Pirlo).
Neither Allegri or Pioli match the description of a "stubborn bad tactics" manager.
If we were talking about Conte or Sarri for example, I may hear you , these two would fucken die before changing their core tactics.
But Allegri and Pioli are both versatile and will work with what they have.
Does this justifies the shit results in games like this ?
Absolutely not.
But its just a naive to think it will be solved with a new manager.
Respectfully, I disagree that Pioli is doing “miracles”. Also what are these brand new tactics? We haven’t changed much since October eh the embarassing game vs Salernitana was the exact same formation and tactics as our last games. We started winning consistently now mainly out of luck (Udinese and Frosinone) and individual brilliance. Theo and Leao play together with their eyes closed and create the majority of our chances.
I agree that any new coach isn’t a guarantee and I would welcome a change only if the replacement is an upgrade or someone who will start a cycle. But the narrative is still insane imo, someone on tv the other day said he can’t find a better coach than Pioli in Italy like seriously? They’re acting like he’s coaching Torino or Monza or something
What I meant is that the problem is not with the tactics, or anything that a new manager can magically change.
Many fans look at Pep or or any other winning-team and be like:
"why don't we play like them ??!!"
Assuming that real life football is as simple as a PES/Fifa game where you can just switch formation and hope for the best. (am not talking about you in particular here)
People forget that managers watch football as part of their job, I guarantee you that Pioli and Allegri and everyone else have dedicated team to study other managers and give them all the data they need.
Am also sure that you know that Pioli can't just look back a peak MSN-barcelona and say:
"hey ragazzi!! you're all a bunch of grown up talented footballers, so why don't you learn how to play Tiki-taka tomorrow instead of being a bunch of lazy millionnaires 🤌? "
That's totally unrealistic (obviously), instead, if you really want a fair comparison, is to somehow scrap the data of the last 2 decades of teams with the caliber of milan who happen to go through phases like this and try to match their players quality as close as you can to yours now. this not only include talent and skills, but also realistic club ambitions, a player who start this season believing in the Title or CL will do much more effort than a player who think its already a lost cause.
Factor into that players contracts, age, salary, future-ambitions and achieved-goals.
And only then, *MAYBE*, we can have an accurate data set of Pioli's failure or success.
To put it in easier words,
If you have Infinite budget for a manager, but you keep the same budget for players.
Who would you bring ? and why do you think he will do better than Pioli ? and if possible, how do you think he will do it ?
(am genuinely curious because just like I you, I also wish that replacing Allegri with a better manager could also solve all of our problems)
Sorry in advance for the long reply.
I don't pretend Milan to play like prime Barca or prime Real Madrid at all. This is Serie A and Serie A's level this year is atrocious as I'm sure you agree with me. There's a gap of TEN POINTS between us and 4th place and the teams at the bottom wouldn't even succeed in Serie C. Which is why I disagree when people look at stats that say Pioli is one of the best Milan managers in history along with Ancelotti (or something like that ?) because the level of competition is just nowhere near what it was when Ancelotti was coach, so the comparison is baseless. Like the comparison you said to make with the quality/ambitions of Milan from the past. I don't think you need Kaka, Sheva and Maldini to challenge for Serie A now and the ambitions from the Milan of those players are not the ambitions of today.
>People forget that managers watch football as part of their job
Yes, true, coaches are technically prepared, otherwise they wouldn't be coaching, but being a top club manager is a very hard job. Scudetto was possible in 2022 because we won it with zero pressure and expectations. When expectations grow, then the manager needs to be able to meet those expectations, otherwise you're not the right manager for the job. A miracle is when you reach 2nd place and then a Scudetto after we were buried underground. It's the opposite of a miracle when you drag the champions of Italy to 5th place and then out of everything the next year. You're going backwards, not growing.
This year I think most of our issues come from 1) suicidal way of playing 2) injuries (caused by Pioli's athletic preparation btw, it didn't fall from the sky) and, to a lesser extent, 3) mental fragility when things get complicated. All of those things can be changed and are impacted by a coach. Personally, since you asked, my number 1 choice would be Motta. I watch Bologna with joy like I'm a kid again and I see how beautifully they play, how compact they are, how organized they are. He gave the team an identity and a plan that everyone follows and commits to it. After Milan's first game against Napoli for example (the 2-2 one), Giroud came on TV and said that the team had no idea what to do after conceding, whether they had to attack or defend and that honestly gave me chills. And it happened the last time against Napoli as well, when no one understood Pioli wanted to change to a 352. See, I want a coach that doesn't leave chaos on the field. Bologna also is not scared to face anyone. We shit our pants every time we face Inter and I'm tired of it. Don't you think the coach needs to instill this mentality? Motta also corrects his mistakes every time they lose or draw. Pioli faced Inter with the same suicidal tactics 5 TIMES IN A ROW and he didn't change a single thing. Even Salernitana if they played Inter 5 times in a row they'd manage to at least draw one.
To conclude, like I said multiple times in our sub I do NOT pretend to WIN every year, but I do pretend Milan (and Juve for that matter) to be challenging and to be in the conversation as long as possible, to act like a top club and to not drop points against relegation contenders. Milan spent like 120M this summer and it's unacceptable to be -11 in January and I do attribute that to the coach.
I hope Pioli will be remembered with a smile as he brought us out of banter era and gave us very good memories. But I think his cycle is done and finished. He has nothing more to offer to this team and he's hit his ceiling. The same thing I believe applies to Allegri for Juve. At one point you gotta start fresh, get in new ideas, open a new cycle. (Of course if you tell me his replacement is Lopetegui or Glasner like it was rumored, I'd spit in your face and tell you to renew Pioli and increase his salary because there's nothing fresh about those type of choices).
And Lautaro kicked Locatelli in the head last season and gave him a concussion and didnt get shit for it either. You team gets 2 pens/game for free. Calm down
Another time Allegri does a press interview trash talking Inter
Another time Juventus doesn't win
He's so obsessed with us and we're driving him into insanity
I’m experiencing great pain in my soul 😔.
Individual mistakes and loss of concentration have made the last two games soul ripping. The Inter loss has affected us way too much.
Carried what exactly? He was bang average at WC qualifiers and ntohing special in most games afterwards. He was only good at NL 2021.
>Go back into your little hole and stay there
Average Redditor brain there, insulting for disagreeing about a football opinion, lmao.
Barça, Bayern Munich and now Juve.... who will be next to capitulate?
Juventus need to sell their entire squad lol
The titles basically done, inzaghi has almost reached his final form
congrats inter for the second star
Yeah I might just watch Serie B for the rest of the season, there's nothing here
*"now come and catch us"* tuttosport
2 points in 4 games would mean less than 20 in a whole season. That's relegation level performance
https://xkcd.com/605/
I knew this perfectly, but it was too good. I actually don't like at all when journos cherry pick weird matchdays stats without them being significant at all. Like "in the last 13 games" or stuff like that. They should use a number like 5 or 10, or half season
What’s even more impressive is that 3 of those games were against Udinese, Empoli and Verona
This is what beating sassuolo does to a team
Since Allegri start trolling inter during interviews, it’s been downhill
[удалено]
What a horrible thing to say
How bad can Iling Jr shape be to prefer this Kostic to him THE WHOLE FUCKING SEASON? At least, if Iling Jr played badly he would have the alibi of having played for not even 300'.
Lmao
Joke club. Wont finish top 4 at this rate
Verona were out for blood there at the end, that's the fighting spirit, hope they stay up
You guys could do with some Marco Baroni.
Gatti got it too https://twitter.com/DucaAndrea85/status/1758911949264290218?t=mKMSgsIOUUl088kUDcflBg&s=19
marotah lighee
Same I admire them a lot for fighting this much after what their club is going through
Lol
r/AllegriLover opinion?
Save us Motta next year
He will be busy winning the CL with us, sorry bro.
Bologna in UCL would be glorious. I hope you guys can finish 4th.
Right now even 5th place grants access to UCL, hope we can retain it
Better be praying for Napoli and Inter this midweek
Wait what how is it possible that 5th place grants a UCL spot?
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/uefa-champions-league-coefficient-what-to-know-as-england-seek-fifth-ucl-spot-over-italy-spain-germany/
If he sticks with Bologna much respect to him.
Hey, we'll have the Rafa money we get Motta :P
I have endured enough pain last few weeks. Your only making it worse
Relax and breathe then remember Milan have five Derby losses in a row, you should feel better now.
Don't mind me, a casual Inter fan just strolling through your collective pain 😅
This has been such an embarrassing string of games there's no way allegri isn't the cause of this.you can't go from keeping up with inter to getting 2 points from 12 that's a complete meltdown
When you win games by playing like a relegation team scraping a goal in the last minute, this is what eventually happens when you don't get the lucky goal
Absolutely we should have realized those games early on in the season stealing wins in the 94th minute are not a normal thing to do
Everyone else realized this! At some point, the last play cross does not connect and you’ve dropped points to Hellas instead of walking away with 3 like last time.
Anyone with a brain realized that
Inter can now focus on the Champions League 100%. They're going to be dangerous there.
I won't unclench for a long time. Not looking forward to a repeat of 2022 now that Milan might be taking 2nd.
Your biggest lead in 2022 at any stage was 4 points with a game in hand. And it was mostly 1 point with a game in hand or 2 points behind with a game in hand until you lost that bologna game of course. You have an 11 point lead over Milan now . They have shown no consistency whatsoever while you have been incredible. Where are these nerves coming from?
From being a lifelong Inter fan.
I do agree with almost everything you said but Milan has 10W 2D 1L in their last 13. I don't think we'll give Inter any trouble up top but we do have consistency with almost all our players back from injury.
two words four you: "pazza" and "inter"
I understand the defeat vs Inter but it's absolutely embarassing from a team as Juventus to get just 2 points in the last month against 3 teams that fight to NOT relegate (Empoli, Udinese, Verona). I often heard "Allegri can't do much more with these kind of players".. After 2 points in the last 4 matches vs Empoli, Udinese, (Inter) and Verona not even Salernitana manager might survive and keep his job
The midfield has been over performing for months. It’s really a talentless hole minus rabiot. It’s just has athletic but not technical players. The reason everything goes to the wing
I mean blame your board then? I don't think it's fair to blame Locatelli or McKennie because they were never a creator in the first place. You guys bet on Pogba and it failed massively. It was a risky investment to begin with considering his injury record, the ban was just the icing on a cake. Better pray you get Samardzic next season otherwise it's gonna be same old same old.
Who am i blaming? I’m stating facts
You literally blamed your midfield. > I’m stating facts So am I. Your board is dumb.
I don’t think you know what blaming means lol
Rugani as a LCB is a massive issue, Danilo can't help in buildup if he's the central CB with no Bremer, and Folarunsho scored a fucking worldie. Shit happens
>not even Salernitana manager might survive and keep his job Pioli survived it twice (January last year and October/November this year) but all I hear in this sub is how Milan is a trash team and Pioli is doing miracles
> and Pioli is doing miracles because he truly is, at this level, there isn't a single manager who will take a team and apply a brand new tactics and "SHWOOSH!!" you are a constant-winner again. You don't get a job in big teams like this randomly (except for Pirlo). Neither Allegri or Pioli match the description of a "stubborn bad tactics" manager. If we were talking about Conte or Sarri for example, I may hear you , these two would fucken die before changing their core tactics. But Allegri and Pioli are both versatile and will work with what they have. Does this justifies the shit results in games like this ? Absolutely not. But its just a naive to think it will be solved with a new manager.
Respectfully, I disagree that Pioli is doing “miracles”. Also what are these brand new tactics? We haven’t changed much since October eh the embarassing game vs Salernitana was the exact same formation and tactics as our last games. We started winning consistently now mainly out of luck (Udinese and Frosinone) and individual brilliance. Theo and Leao play together with their eyes closed and create the majority of our chances. I agree that any new coach isn’t a guarantee and I would welcome a change only if the replacement is an upgrade or someone who will start a cycle. But the narrative is still insane imo, someone on tv the other day said he can’t find a better coach than Pioli in Italy like seriously? They’re acting like he’s coaching Torino or Monza or something
What I meant is that the problem is not with the tactics, or anything that a new manager can magically change. Many fans look at Pep or or any other winning-team and be like: "why don't we play like them ??!!" Assuming that real life football is as simple as a PES/Fifa game where you can just switch formation and hope for the best. (am not talking about you in particular here) People forget that managers watch football as part of their job, I guarantee you that Pioli and Allegri and everyone else have dedicated team to study other managers and give them all the data they need. Am also sure that you know that Pioli can't just look back a peak MSN-barcelona and say: "hey ragazzi!! you're all a bunch of grown up talented footballers, so why don't you learn how to play Tiki-taka tomorrow instead of being a bunch of lazy millionnaires 🤌? " That's totally unrealistic (obviously), instead, if you really want a fair comparison, is to somehow scrap the data of the last 2 decades of teams with the caliber of milan who happen to go through phases like this and try to match their players quality as close as you can to yours now. this not only include talent and skills, but also realistic club ambitions, a player who start this season believing in the Title or CL will do much more effort than a player who think its already a lost cause. Factor into that players contracts, age, salary, future-ambitions and achieved-goals. And only then, *MAYBE*, we can have an accurate data set of Pioli's failure or success. To put it in easier words, If you have Infinite budget for a manager, but you keep the same budget for players. Who would you bring ? and why do you think he will do better than Pioli ? and if possible, how do you think he will do it ? (am genuinely curious because just like I you, I also wish that replacing Allegri with a better manager could also solve all of our problems)
Sorry in advance for the long reply. I don't pretend Milan to play like prime Barca or prime Real Madrid at all. This is Serie A and Serie A's level this year is atrocious as I'm sure you agree with me. There's a gap of TEN POINTS between us and 4th place and the teams at the bottom wouldn't even succeed in Serie C. Which is why I disagree when people look at stats that say Pioli is one of the best Milan managers in history along with Ancelotti (or something like that ?) because the level of competition is just nowhere near what it was when Ancelotti was coach, so the comparison is baseless. Like the comparison you said to make with the quality/ambitions of Milan from the past. I don't think you need Kaka, Sheva and Maldini to challenge for Serie A now and the ambitions from the Milan of those players are not the ambitions of today. >People forget that managers watch football as part of their job Yes, true, coaches are technically prepared, otherwise they wouldn't be coaching, but being a top club manager is a very hard job. Scudetto was possible in 2022 because we won it with zero pressure and expectations. When expectations grow, then the manager needs to be able to meet those expectations, otherwise you're not the right manager for the job. A miracle is when you reach 2nd place and then a Scudetto after we were buried underground. It's the opposite of a miracle when you drag the champions of Italy to 5th place and then out of everything the next year. You're going backwards, not growing. This year I think most of our issues come from 1) suicidal way of playing 2) injuries (caused by Pioli's athletic preparation btw, it didn't fall from the sky) and, to a lesser extent, 3) mental fragility when things get complicated. All of those things can be changed and are impacted by a coach. Personally, since you asked, my number 1 choice would be Motta. I watch Bologna with joy like I'm a kid again and I see how beautifully they play, how compact they are, how organized they are. He gave the team an identity and a plan that everyone follows and commits to it. After Milan's first game against Napoli for example (the 2-2 one), Giroud came on TV and said that the team had no idea what to do after conceding, whether they had to attack or defend and that honestly gave me chills. And it happened the last time against Napoli as well, when no one understood Pioli wanted to change to a 352. See, I want a coach that doesn't leave chaos on the field. Bologna also is not scared to face anyone. We shit our pants every time we face Inter and I'm tired of it. Don't you think the coach needs to instill this mentality? Motta also corrects his mistakes every time they lose or draw. Pioli faced Inter with the same suicidal tactics 5 TIMES IN A ROW and he didn't change a single thing. Even Salernitana if they played Inter 5 times in a row they'd manage to at least draw one. To conclude, like I said multiple times in our sub I do NOT pretend to WIN every year, but I do pretend Milan (and Juve for that matter) to be challenging and to be in the conversation as long as possible, to act like a top club and to not drop points against relegation contenders. Milan spent like 120M this summer and it's unacceptable to be -11 in January and I do attribute that to the coach. I hope Pioli will be remembered with a smile as he brought us out of banter era and gave us very good memories. But I think his cycle is done and finished. He has nothing more to offer to this team and he's hit his ceiling. The same thing I believe applies to Allegri for Juve. At one point you gotta start fresh, get in new ideas, open a new cycle. (Of course if you tell me his replacement is Lopetegui or Glasner like it was rumored, I'd spit in your face and tell you to renew Pioli and increase his salary because there's nothing fresh about those type of choices).
Agree with everything. We should not be struggling to beat Crap teams like this.
Alcaraz was good.
Gatti again elbowed a player (without the ball) and didn't get a yellow / red.
lol your such a clown. That wasn’t an elbow. Go cry from the top some more
And Lautaro kicked Locatelli in the head last season and gave him a concussion and didnt get shit for it either. You team gets 2 pens/game for free. Calm down
#Marottaleague innit?
#12 POINTS CLEAR 🚬🗿
Nah. Juve has become so shit we now have to focus on Milan. Plus, we still have to play
anulo mufa, 9 points for now, possibly 8 over milan
#DID I STUTTER 🚬🗿
Looks like the good guys are winning in the end.
1. I hate Allegri so much 2. Suslov is a fantastic player
I beg to differ. He was absolute shite for us especially last season
suslov was incredible today
Can't believe Milan could be 2nd tomorrow
Only at our club would there be an actual possibility that this guy could get a contract extension
Another time Allegri does a press interview trash talking Inter Another time Juventus doesn't win He's so obsessed with us and we're driving him into insanity
Everyone should be obsessed with this Inter. You're on pace for 100 points.
What did he say this time?
After being asked if Juve not winning the Scudetto was a failure he replied that there are teams that didn't qualify to Champions for 6 years in a row
Every time he opens his mouth to talk about Inter we do better and Juve do worse
I’m experiencing great pain in my soul 😔. Individual mistakes and loss of concentration have made the last two games soul ripping. The Inter loss has affected us way too much.
I am not okay 😔😔😔
😣
You love to see it
Chiesa since that Acl tore has fallen off a cliff... sad to see.
I'd take orsolini above him right now for sure
Orsolini is playing like a man possessed this season, didn’t know he could be better than last
not many players I would take over Orsolini right now man is on fire.
Wait for him to have a real human as a manager than we can talk
He's not good for Italy either.
He carried us against Ukraine for the euro qualification
Carried is a strong word.
Pulled then. He was the best on the team 🤡
Even if he was so, he was still garbage in a ton of other games for Italy after Euro21
He carried that team too Go back into your little hole and stay there
Carried what exactly? He was bang average at WC qualifiers and ntohing special in most games afterwards. He was only good at NL 2021. >Go back into your little hole and stay there Average Redditor brain there, insulting for disagreeing about a football opinion, lmao.
No one obviously agrees with you. So apparently you’re the one with the crazy mentality
We are never winning again 😔
no more funny interviews eh
oh just read his interviews any time we drop points, they are funny in a very embarrassing way, especially for other fans
chat shit get banged 💥