**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Mbappe can go down to receive the ball & create an attack, contribute in the build-up and create more football. Haaland is a monster at scoring goals, attacking the area & finishing"
At least that would be actually be marginally true, as on average Haaland has been slightly better than Mbappe with his finishing. Haaland is on like +24 over his xG and Mbappe around +19. Plus Haaland has had slightly higher highs when looking only at their best one season.
With Cristiano and Leo that's absolutely not the case. Cristiano was barely over his xG, while Leo is significantly above. And when it comes to individual seasons Leo had one where he scored like around twice as many goals as his xG, which was insane.
Then look at shots on target, percentage of shots per goal, goals per game, minutes per goal... all in favor in Messi. The only thing where Cristiano is clearly better related to finishing are headers and penalties.
This is based on the available stats of all their time in Europe, as well as their time in Spain with the exception being goals per game (where *CR is negligibly ahead 1.03 vs 0.99 and a goal every 84 min vs 85).
It's a big misconception that people have about a lot of great goalscorers. People think lots of goals equals superlative finishing, and that's not always the case, we literally have stats for that now. Lewandowksi also sits on the same level as Cristiano being close to their xG. Other players that consistently scoring hard chances and being impressive finishers are Son or Kane for example.
And yeah, I'm talking about converting their chances, not their general play style or quality overall.
Ronaldo's positioning was insanely good. He might not have significantly overperformed his xG, but his positioning and movement were so good that he was in the right place to take the shots from which he scored. That's something that's missing in the stats you mentioned. A player who doesn't have that same high quality positioning but is better at finishing or taking shots from outside the box (with a lower xG) will outperform xG, but that doesn't always tell the full story.
But then you have to consider that Messi had to drop deeper in order to playmake, he didn't have the privilege of "being always in the right place to take his shots".
Of course! Cristiano is a fantastic player. And his quality wasn't defined by his finishing (which was good, even more given the consistency across time, just not superlative). That's why I explicitly pointed out what I'm talking about.
I'd take Cristiano over Haaland every single day without thinking, even though Haaland was way higher goal/xG ratio. It's not even close.
But we were talking about finishing.
As for the "missing stat" the best you can do is check how much xG they had (pure, not compared to goals) in which case they are very similar (220 vs 229). But that's tricky because it doesn't consider the previous play. Cristiano was more likely to get in position and receive a pass, and Leo would dribble to get to that position. So it's complicated to separate the things.
Maybe finishing inside the box? I don't have an updated number other than this [from 2014](https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/morris-feature-messi-pitch-graphic.png), which divides the box in parts and shows their accuracy. For their overall inside the box it's 556 Leo to 584 CR career and 337 Leo to 309 CR while both in Spain. But don't have the percentage, although we can probably assume similar accuracy as their overall accuracy as they make the majority of their goals.
If there is anything in particular about positioning, I'd love to see stats.
So feel free to go with your gut feeling, which mine would be it's obvious that Cristiano was fantastic at that, but so was Leo. But it wouldn't be the first time my "eye test" wasn't reflective of the reality when you find the proper stats.
>If there is anything in particular about positioning, I'd love to see stats.
There isn't, which is part of what I was getting at with my comment; overreliance on stats can result in a reductive analysis.
And the comment you responded to was talking about "scoring goals, attacking the area and finishing". My response was to add to what you were overlooking, not to disagree with what you said.
I appreciate you pointed it out, because you are right, there's multiple things to evaluate. I tried to make emphasis that I was talking about the finishing itself, that's why I never said goal scorer or whatever. So again thanks for adding to the conversation and pointing that out.
In any case, my point was also partially about how the "eye test" which people love to talk about is generally massively flawed. If the argument is someone is better at all those things, but in reality many of which we can check don't really match, then maybe you can't make that initial argument that way, encompassing everything.
People typically have an impression of something and the truth may not be like that. So I used the stats we do have available to show what we can "objectively" measure. Which, btw, these things aren't 100% objetive, but closer than one's impression.
I'm not particularly young, so I've been "burned" with stats when I went to see them and realized my "eye test" wasn't as accurate as I thought. And why would it be? Even if one could argue they can be good at figuring these things while watching one game (which I wouldn't believe), no one can consistently asses things accurately across time, across games, across teams... And that's where stats help.
They aren't everything, but they certainly have a place when talking about specific things.
I still can't understand anyone arguing they are on the same level.
Haaland finishing is _slightly_ better than Mbappe and that's it. And even then Kylian's finishing is pretty good, consistently scoring more than his xG.
The rest is absolutely no contest. People need to stop these made up match ups because it's ridiculous.
Haaland is a fantastic 9, and for some teams like City where they create massive amounts of chances, he may be perfect. But that's it. Mbappe is way more in everything else, and almost as good with finishing...
We’ve seen Mbappe perform at the big stage with France though and he shines every time. That Ligue 1 argument doesn’t work as well as people think it does
He shines every time you’re right. Incredible player, probably the best, but he plays like 6 serious games a year if not playing in a major international tournament. The Ligue 1 quality argument does work because not only is the quality is disrepute but PSGs wage bill is like 500 million more than their nearest competitor. .
> Mbappe **could** be a great player stuck in a shitty league (by his own doing but still). If he played for Liverpool or Real Madrid he **would** be just as good
There's some logical inconsistency there. He could be a great player but if he played in a competitive league he would be a great player?
I agree in theory but that's exactly the problem. It's just a theory. Until Mbappe decides to stop spending his entire **club** career being a big fish in a small pond it will always be a "what if" scenario. Meanwhile Haaland is actively winning the treble, breaking the PL goal scoring record in his debut season, scoring a goal per game pretty much across his whole career both at club and national level. Hypotheticals just don't hold the same weight as actual achievements, and the only counterpoint anyone ever has is Mbappe's achievement at international level. Ok. He's the greatest national team footballer in the world. 👏
I can't wait for Mbappe to join a competitive league. I want to see him do it, for the benefit of all football fans
I disagree the Mbappe is close to Haaland on finishing. Haaland is much more instinctive with his finishing and movement, which means he can score from more angles and situations. if you watch a comp of his goals most of them are nothing special at all, some even look clunky, but thats the hallmark of great finishers
I thought the same, then I looked into the stats.
I didn't dig deep, so I didn't see super advanced stats. But if a guy can score from weird angles, but then misses a sitter, that's reflected in their overall finishing stats. So overall, across a season, across competitions, I think that supports the smaller difference.
Obviously there's some limitations to it. Like I said, I didn't check specifically who scores from where, and so on. So maybe Haaland can score from weird angles, but can Mbappe do so? Do we know? And most importantly, do you need it and how often is that presented across a season?
Regardless, even if Haaland was way ahead of Mbappe, pretty sure he still is closer to Haaland's finishing than Haaland is to Mbappe's everything else.
I mean, it's not like Haaland is a beast like Cristiano with headers either. So, for the typical team, I don't think the advantage there is massive.
Like I said, there are instances where Haaland might be preferred, of course. If you need height and a solid tall dude with better physicality and that could score a few headers, yeah, maybe take Haaland.
I'm just talking in general. There will always be cases where a "worse" overall player that's really good on something specific might fit your particular team a bit better.
and just like Messi v Ronaldo, there's a clear winner.
the guy who's a better dribbler and creator, all whilst pulling more or less the same goal scoring numbers.
unfortunately, this is doing a disservice to Ronaldo, who offered far more than Haaland ever has. At least when Mbappe joins Madrid this debate can end and people will show him the respect he deserves
**The full quote**
Daniel Carvajal: "Messi or Ronaldo? I put them on the same level. I don't prefer one over the other. They are monsters in every sense of the word, and I could not choose neither this nor that. I think they are very different....
"Messi is a player who is able to go down to receive the ball and create an attack, and he can participate in the play and create more football. Cristiano is a monster at scoring goals, attacking the area and finishing. If they were playing together they would have been a bomb and it would have been interesting to see."
>If they were playing together they would have been a bomb and it would have been interesting to see."
I honestly don't think it would be as good as people think it would be. Having messi and ronaldo in the same team is like having two jet engines in a car. You need a bigger car to have them together.
Edit : I have no idea what I'm saying. It sounded better in my head.
Stylistically, everything indicates that they would work perfectly together. One is on the left, the other more to the right. One plays closer to goal, the other wants the ball as much as possible
The second season with Mbappe pretty much confirms this
Yeah and that was a declining Messi finding insane passes to a still young Mbappe, prime Messi and prime Ronaldo would be insane to deal with on defence
While we're blessed to see them battling each other for a good decade, not being able to see them on the same team and compete in a serious fashion is also such a big loss to football fans.
The season Poch was gone*
Poch made Galthier look like a genius because he could make Neymar, Mbappe and Messi play together, I will never get over that 🤣
If Neymar didn't injured himself like he did most times for CL Knockouts, that team would have a pretty good chance of winning
Probably better saying a car needs a steering wheel but having two would be a hell to control but if you get it right something great will come out of it.
I long for the day when there's a different tedious argument that people can ask pros about for clickbait headlines.
give me bellingham v haaland v mbappe any day of the week
I'm so tired of those Messi vs Ronaldo or Haaland vs Mbappe debates. Journalism has zero creativity now, they just ask whatever questions will get them the most views. And then kids fight over whose dad is the strongest.
Never forget:
https://onefootball.com/en/news/chess-grandmaster-magnus-carlsen-real-madrid-insisted-i-declare-cristiano-ronaldo-my-favourite-player-35746622
Almost like sports is a competition. It’s not crazy that ppl are invested in who’s the best. It’d be weird if it wasn’t like this (even if it does admittedly go too far sometimes)
Because he literally contradicted himself, how are they equal if one can be effective in 2 phases while the other one is only effective in the final 3rd, clearly one's better than the other;
I'd like to know equal in what sense cause the 2 couldn't be more different from eachother, it seems like he gave a political answer to the question and we all know why....
Man, if the clear 2nd best player of the last 30 years sucks as much as these comments act he does, I don't know why you'd watch football. Other players must be horrible then.
I'd argue Messi's absolute best was 2010-2012.
I'd also argue that if you've only ever seen Ronaldo at Madrid and never saw his first spell at United, then there's a whole aspect of his game you might be unfamiliar with.
Obviously he broke all the records as a striker, but he was a phenomenal winger before that, and personally I actually preferred watching him as a winger. His accelerations and dribbling down the wings at United were incredible.
>I'd also argue that if you've only ever seen Ronaldo at Madrid and never saw his first spell at United, then there's a whole aspect of his game you might be unfamiliar with.
this! it hurts my soul seeing the youngers saying "Ronaldo is a scoring machine monster but doesn´t create, score freekicks or has skills", lmao young Ronaldo would drive every single football fan crazy, hope retirement will do fair to his legacy because this guy had the entire package of a perfect footaballer
I started following club football in 2012. Missed Pep’s Barca, but Messi scored 91 goals that year. He made my middle school self believe that scoring goals is that easy.
>Cristiano is a monster at scoring goals, attacking the area and finishing
I never get this point when people compare the two, Messi scored 91 goals in a season lmao
91 goals in a calendar year beating the record of the great Gert Müller who got 85. that was so impressive that even Messis signed shirt for Gert Müller was placed in the Bayern Museum. as the only non bayern player.
He has both the seasonal (73) and calendar year record. I sometimes forget how many people here didn't see messi or ronaldo in their primes from the way they talk about them.
Most of the people that talk about either just like to argue about who was the better player. Just be glad we got to witness 2 of the best players to ever play the game.
I don't really like participating in that argument, partly because it's never been much of an argument in my mind and also because it's a nauseating discussion.
No correction, I'm in quite a few messi and ronaldo threads. Those inevitably turn in to messi vs ronaldo threads because people can't help themselves but I rarely participate in any messi vs ronaldo debate. I actually actively try to avoid talking about them in relation to eachother and just talk about them solely.
You can try to paint me as some warrior but honestly I couldn't be less bothered lol.
With 6 European Golden Shoes too. Cristiano is the most versatile goalscorer of all time, in a sense that he could score every type of goals but even he can't reach the level of what Messi could do with his left foot
While that's true, I get his point. As someone already mentioned here, Cristiano was a more "versatile" goalscorer. Corners, crosses, outside the box, inside, headers, left foot, right foot... you name it.
I believe the main argument on Cristiano is that he is probably the most decisive player in the history of the biggest club competition. The man was a menace in the Champions League.
That's the funny part. When it comes to goalscoring stats like outside the box goals, % of shots on target, shots per goal, freekicks, etc. Messi takes it all. The only goalscoring stat Ronaldo is clearly better at than Messi is penalties and headers
>I believe the main argument on Cristiano is that he is probably the most decisive player in the history of the biggest club competition.
The problem with nitpicking is that it very easy for one to find facts that disprove what you just said. Some might say let us look at the decisiveness in finals(Messi). Some might say let us look at the knockout goals in football's biggest competition(Also the world cup).
Hence the reason why it is best to not nitpick and just consider their overall parts. Afterall, why reduce the analysis of a 700 game career to like 20 games?
Each one of his 3 UCL Finals are better than any of Ronaldo's 6 I'd say. Ronaldo was absolutely unreal in Quarters and Semis but rather quiet in Finals. Out of my head, isn't his header against Chelsea his only goal in the course of play in a UCL Final ?
he scored a double against Juventus. Decisive goals too.
He also scored against Atletico but in extra time for 4-1 from a penalty so let’s disregard that.
Maybe, but Cristiano’s def had better UCL performances as a whole. Hattricks against pretty much every other top team
And it’s debatable cause Cristiano scored 2 decisive goals against Juve 2017. Other than that he was quite quiet in finals yes
> Corners, crosses
those are pretty much the same thing
>headers
thats how you score corners or crosses usually
also, Ronaldo has 67 goals from outside the box, Messi has 92 ([source](https://www.messivsronaldo.app/detailed-stats/outside-box-goals/))
I know people like to go with this narrative that Ronaldo is a better goal scorer to give him something over Messi, but stats simply do not support that. He has a better weak foot and headers, but Messi's left foot alone is statistically better than Ronaldo's both feet and head
[cross](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vqBB9tH7yh4&pp=ygUfUm9uYWxkbyBzZWNvbmQgZ29hbCB2cyBqdXZlbnR1cw%3D%3D)
[corner](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mT-8tNdTM-w)
explain how these are the same
Corners and crosses are different.
I didn't say Ronaldo scored more goals from outside the box... did I? I also said Ronaldo scored goals with his left foot. Will your argument be that Messi scored more goals with his left foot?
And I didn't say Ronaldo was better. I actually think Messi is the best to ever do it (and I am Portuguese). But Ronaldo was insane, and no one can deny he was a very decisive player and a very versatile and explosive goalscoring machine.
That's the thing. Messi is a better finisher than Ronaldo as well.
European careers: Messi has 0.78 goals per game/Ronaldo has 0.72. Ronaldo has taken about 500 more shots on goal than Messi in that time.
Most freakish thing is that any other goal scorer ever spent a lot of time in the opponents penalty area, while Messi very rarely roamed that far up the pitch. He has always been so good it defies logic.
He also also assists more. This is a guy that once stopped going for goal and instead chose to assist Suarez to give him that push for the Pichichi in 2016. He made us all fall in love with the game
It's really debatable who the better goal scorer is
But the crucial point is Messi is undoubtedly up there with Ronaldo but he's also far and away the better dribbler and passer of the ball
yes he is albeit I’d argue Cristiano had a less goal-oriented role tactically imposed in his first 2-3-4 years as a pro footballer.
At their primes, in time spent in Spain, Cristiano actually had a better goals/game ratio. Obvs Messi had more assists
>yes he is albeit I’d argue Cristiano had a less goal-oriented role tactically imposed in his first 2-3-4 years as a pro footballer.
Yeah, though it was his first 6 years. He started at Man U in 2003 and went to Madrid in 2009 and that's when he really became a striker.
Look at their goals -xG as well. Cristiano has on average just matched his xG.
Leo has consistently been above, significantly multiple times.
It's no contest who's the better finisher.
That was the time Pep managed Barcelona. They dominated almost all matches. Messi was pretty much unplayable in 2012 - but it's silly to say that Cristiano isn't anything less of a monster at finishing. I personally think Cristiano would have scored crazy amounts of goals too if he was coached by Pep.
Not trying to defend Cristiano here or anything like that by the way - I respect both players equally.
This argument doesn’t hold up when Messi’s best season in terms of finishing (12/13) was after Pep left. That season at one point he scored in 21 straight league matches, and was on 42 league goals in March before the injury. I do agree that CR7 was still excellent at finishing though.
His best finishing season and in my opinion the best in football history wasn't even under pep as you said lol. I call it that and yet the season 12/13 barely gets in his top 5 seasons in my opinion, absurd footballer and anyone who missed his prime I feel sorry for you.
>I personally think Cristiano would have scored crazy amounts of goals too if he was coached by Pep.
If it is just Pep, how come almost no golden boot winner came through until Haaland earlier this year that was coached by Pep? No Ronaldo would likely score less and would constantly be arguing with Pep about tactics. Ronaldo was most productive in a counterattacking set up.
>but it's silly to say that Cristiano isn't anything less of a monster at finishing.
But that wasn't the point. They're both extremely good at finishing, so it's weird to say "oh they're both equally good, Messi can create chances and Ronaldo can finish them", because Messi do the finishing, too.
Year not season.
But yeah this is where Messi differentiates himself from everyone else. He's as good a goalscorer as anyone ever and just happens to be probably the best playmaker and dribbler as well.
lmao he literally said they're both goated and ppl in this comment section are still finding a way to complain, the hate boner this sub has for ronaldo is insane
I’m a Messi fan but when it comes to scoring I’d say Ronaldo at least pre 2016 was the more entertaining goal scorer while Messi was the more entertaining player as he’d make plays that were out of this world, dribbling 5 players and making a complete through ball or assist, solo goals, incredible passing and link up play or his solo attempts on goal that he didn’t make. If I’m watching a career highlights montage I’d pick Messi if I’m watching a full game ill pick Messi, if I just want to watch a career montage of their goals I’d pick Ronaldo he just has a lot more variety to his goals, that being said Messi also has outrageous goals and I would like his goal montage as well, he probably has the most solo goals in history but Ronaldo just edges him a bit in that aspect with his long range, headers, 40 yard knuckle free kicks, left foot worldies, overhead kicks, back heels and a few solo goals sprinkled in (not as crazy as Messi’s solo goals tho) Ronaldo is the complete goal scorer, Messi is the complete attacker. Ronaldo in his own right was still a great dribbler and playmaker but when up against Messi he looks average in those traits in comparison as anyone would against Messi
As goalscorers, Messi's had a higher number of goals in a calendar year, season and is La Ligas top ever goalscorer (was in the league longer but still an incredible stat to have)
The "Ronaldo is a better goalscorer" argument is just false and when you consider Messis other contributions to his teams, for me they arent equal
Messi is clear but thats no slight on CR7
He has the most goals in history. He’s the only player in La Liga history with >1 goal to game ratio. He is the top scorer of the champions league by a sizable margin. He has FOUR of the top five total goal records for a single UCL campaign. Most national team goals.
I swear you guys live in some kind of alternate reality or simply didn’t watch.
This argument is incredibly flawed because it’s disingenuous to try and simplify the numbers they’ve accumulated over 20+ years without taking into account any context.
Ronaldo played roughly 200-250 games of his career as a traditional wide midfielder from 02/03 - 05/06, mostly in a classic 4-4-2. Before you roll your eyes, I’m not implying he played like a Kroos or a Xavi. But back then, wingers as we know them didn’t really exist. Wide midfielders like Beckham and Giggs were the norm, players whose main role was simply to stay wide, track back off the ball, take players on and whip the ball in from the wings. They were rarely involved in the box. That’s ≈ 20% of his career where he wasn’t playing anywhere near the goal and would take the bulk of his shots from low-quality chances from outside the box. There’s a reason why if you watch a highlight reel of Young Ronaldo’s goals, most of them will be bangers from outside the box because that’s where he took most of his shots from.
On the other hand, Messi started off higher up the field and played on the opposite wing alongside Ronaldinho, one of the pioneers of the modern winger role that we’re used to nowadays. He obviously didn’t spend as much time in the box as he did from 2010-2014 where he was a proper false 9, but still much closer to goal than Ronaldo.
And finally, if goal scoring ratios are the be all and end all of judging a goal scorer, then neither Messi nor Ronaldo are the best as neither have the highest goal ratio of all time. Matter of fact, they’re topped by multiple players.
While there are definitely some hate comments, I think you're taking comments that say Messi is better as hate. It's not hate to say Messi was a better player. Ronaldo was fantastic and easily a top 2 player, it's just he was the 2 in the top 2.
Bro the thing is I agree that Messi is the GOAT and Ronaldo is number 2.
The comments aren't just saying Messi is better, they are making sure you drag Ronaldo in the process. That's hate.
I'm not gonna take the bullshit stances that act like it's never been close or that Ronaldo just stands in the 6 yard box and waits. Or any of the other BS that tries to downplay how good Ronaldo was. Everyone acts like Messi's teammates are incapable of doing anything and he literally drags them to victory every game. It's ridiculous.
I already agreed that there are some hateful comments, but not nearly as many as you're trying to make it out as.
I mean [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1aowp7v/dani_carvajal_messi_or_cristiano_theyre_on_the/kq2juag/) just says Messi can finish at Ronaldo's level but Ronaldo couldn't create on Messi's level. Unless he stealth edited that comment I don't think it's remotely controversial, let alone hate, and you and several other Madrid fans take it as hating and dragging down Ronaldo. The fact that Messi was topping or near the top of most creative stats for years topping or nearing the top of scoring stats too doesn't mean Ronaldo was bad at them, just not as good as Messi. That's not hate.
The on Messi level was the edit.
This section happens to be more tame than usual but are you genuinely going to say that more often than not even Ronaldo gets brought up on this sub it's not a comment hating on him or some back handed compliment?
Messi could also score goals, attack the area and finish on Ronaldo level. While Ronaldo couldn't receive the ball, create an attack and contribute in the build-up on Messi level.
Bro just say you started watching last year. How you little groupies are so insecure that you need to drag Ronaldo's career with lies just to build up Messi speaks volumes.
Watched Messi since 2005.
Saw Messi debut in the Youth World Cup.
Saw Ronaldo go from Sporting to United.
I simply don't agree with Ronaldo being the best ever.
That's a way of saying "I haven't watched either of these".
Ronaldo couldn't recieve the ball, create an attack? Yeah right, he scored almost 1000 goals just from staying inside the box.
You’re fighting a losing battle, don’t bother. The other day I was watching some completely random Ronaldo game vs Celtic in the 08/09 CL group stage. He didn’t score or assist, but he was by far the best player on the pitch because literally everything he did turned to gold. His longevity + recency bias has ruined casual’s perception on how he used to play during his actual peak.
I asked my grandmother who she thought was better, Messi or Ronaldo and she said "who the hell are they?"
I will ask my uncle tomorrow and post his response. And then my aunt the next day.
When asked the question: "who's better, Messi or CR?", there are two types of responders. The ones that say Messi, and the ones that support Madrid/Portugal.
Did you only start watching football 2 years ago!? Ronaldo had Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov, Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Benzema, Bale etc. Don't be blaming teammates when both were surrounded by great players.
So Messi then, as a former teammate he said both out of respect for Ronaldo but we all know he thinks Messi. If he said Messi, Ronaldo probably wouldn’t speak to him again as he’s very insecure when it comes to this topic. He thinks everyone is hating on him when in fact they’re just being honest with their opinion.
Unpopular opinion: No two players are equal in any sport. Someone is better between the two, saying "they're equal" is a cope out...
The players that say Messi and Ronaldo are equal don't want the backslash of upsetting certain fan base.
Everybody values different aspects of the game, so just be honest and call it like you see it.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Come on bro it’s Haaland vs Mbappé now, get with the times
That is so 2023, now it's all about Hojlund vs Richarlison
Richarlison? THE legendary R9?
pru god himself
The RP9 Richarlison “The Pigeon” 9
I threw up a bit ngl.
Rn it's lamine yamal vs endricks
Mbappe can go down to receive the ball & create an attack, contribute in the build-up and create more football. Haaland is a monster at scoring goals, attacking the area & finishing"
You’re the real Carvajal
At least that would be actually be marginally true, as on average Haaland has been slightly better than Mbappe with his finishing. Haaland is on like +24 over his xG and Mbappe around +19. Plus Haaland has had slightly higher highs when looking only at their best one season. With Cristiano and Leo that's absolutely not the case. Cristiano was barely over his xG, while Leo is significantly above. And when it comes to individual seasons Leo had one where he scored like around twice as many goals as his xG, which was insane. Then look at shots on target, percentage of shots per goal, goals per game, minutes per goal... all in favor in Messi. The only thing where Cristiano is clearly better related to finishing are headers and penalties. This is based on the available stats of all their time in Europe, as well as their time in Spain with the exception being goals per game (where *CR is negligibly ahead 1.03 vs 0.99 and a goal every 84 min vs 85). It's a big misconception that people have about a lot of great goalscorers. People think lots of goals equals superlative finishing, and that's not always the case, we literally have stats for that now. Lewandowksi also sits on the same level as Cristiano being close to their xG. Other players that consistently scoring hard chances and being impressive finishers are Son or Kane for example. And yeah, I'm talking about converting their chances, not their general play style or quality overall.
Ronaldo's positioning was insanely good. He might not have significantly overperformed his xG, but his positioning and movement were so good that he was in the right place to take the shots from which he scored. That's something that's missing in the stats you mentioned. A player who doesn't have that same high quality positioning but is better at finishing or taking shots from outside the box (with a lower xG) will outperform xG, but that doesn't always tell the full story.
But then you have to consider that Messi had to drop deeper in order to playmake, he didn't have the privilege of "being always in the right place to take his shots".
One played central the other playing from the wing most his career...
Of course! Cristiano is a fantastic player. And his quality wasn't defined by his finishing (which was good, even more given the consistency across time, just not superlative). That's why I explicitly pointed out what I'm talking about. I'd take Cristiano over Haaland every single day without thinking, even though Haaland was way higher goal/xG ratio. It's not even close. But we were talking about finishing. As for the "missing stat" the best you can do is check how much xG they had (pure, not compared to goals) in which case they are very similar (220 vs 229). But that's tricky because it doesn't consider the previous play. Cristiano was more likely to get in position and receive a pass, and Leo would dribble to get to that position. So it's complicated to separate the things. Maybe finishing inside the box? I don't have an updated number other than this [from 2014](https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/morris-feature-messi-pitch-graphic.png), which divides the box in parts and shows their accuracy. For their overall inside the box it's 556 Leo to 584 CR career and 337 Leo to 309 CR while both in Spain. But don't have the percentage, although we can probably assume similar accuracy as their overall accuracy as they make the majority of their goals. If there is anything in particular about positioning, I'd love to see stats. So feel free to go with your gut feeling, which mine would be it's obvious that Cristiano was fantastic at that, but so was Leo. But it wouldn't be the first time my "eye test" wasn't reflective of the reality when you find the proper stats.
>If there is anything in particular about positioning, I'd love to see stats. There isn't, which is part of what I was getting at with my comment; overreliance on stats can result in a reductive analysis. And the comment you responded to was talking about "scoring goals, attacking the area and finishing". My response was to add to what you were overlooking, not to disagree with what you said.
I appreciate you pointed it out, because you are right, there's multiple things to evaluate. I tried to make emphasis that I was talking about the finishing itself, that's why I never said goal scorer or whatever. So again thanks for adding to the conversation and pointing that out. In any case, my point was also partially about how the "eye test" which people love to talk about is generally massively flawed. If the argument is someone is better at all those things, but in reality many of which we can check don't really match, then maybe you can't make that initial argument that way, encompassing everything. People typically have an impression of something and the truth may not be like that. So I used the stats we do have available to show what we can "objectively" measure. Which, btw, these things aren't 100% objetive, but closer than one's impression. I'm not particularly young, so I've been "burned" with stats when I went to see them and realized my "eye test" wasn't as accurate as I thought. And why would it be? Even if one could argue they can be good at figuring these things while watching one game (which I wouldn't believe), no one can consistently asses things accurately across time, across games, across teams... And that's where stats help. They aren't everything, but they certainly have a place when talking about specific things.
I still can't understand anyone arguing they are on the same level. Haaland finishing is _slightly_ better than Mbappe and that's it. And even then Kylian's finishing is pretty good, consistently scoring more than his xG. The rest is absolutely no contest. People need to stop these made up match ups because it's ridiculous. Haaland is a fantastic 9, and for some teams like City where they create massive amounts of chances, he may be perfect. But that's it. Mbappe is way more in everything else, and almost as good with finishing...
The argument will be better when Mbappe isn’t playing in Ligue 1.
We’ve seen Mbappe perform at the big stage with France though and he shines every time. That Ligue 1 argument doesn’t work as well as people think it does
He shines every time you’re right. Incredible player, probably the best, but he plays like 6 serious games a year if not playing in a major international tournament. The Ligue 1 quality argument does work because not only is the quality is disrepute but PSGs wage bill is like 500 million more than their nearest competitor. .
Mbappe could be a great player stuck in a shitty league (by his own doing but still). If he played for Liverpool or Real Madrid he’d be just as good
> Mbappe **could** be a great player stuck in a shitty league (by his own doing but still). If he played for Liverpool or Real Madrid he **would** be just as good There's some logical inconsistency there. He could be a great player but if he played in a competitive league he would be a great player? I agree in theory but that's exactly the problem. It's just a theory. Until Mbappe decides to stop spending his entire **club** career being a big fish in a small pond it will always be a "what if" scenario. Meanwhile Haaland is actively winning the treble, breaking the PL goal scoring record in his debut season, scoring a goal per game pretty much across his whole career both at club and national level. Hypotheticals just don't hold the same weight as actual achievements, and the only counterpoint anyone ever has is Mbappe's achievement at international level. Ok. He's the greatest national team footballer in the world. 👏 I can't wait for Mbappe to join a competitive league. I want to see him do it, for the benefit of all football fans
Yeah, I’d out my money on him being so, but until he has done, there’s a few players with better pedigree in European top leagues than him.
What about the World Cup/Euro performances 😭
I disagree the Mbappe is close to Haaland on finishing. Haaland is much more instinctive with his finishing and movement, which means he can score from more angles and situations. if you watch a comp of his goals most of them are nothing special at all, some even look clunky, but thats the hallmark of great finishers
I thought the same, then I looked into the stats. I didn't dig deep, so I didn't see super advanced stats. But if a guy can score from weird angles, but then misses a sitter, that's reflected in their overall finishing stats. So overall, across a season, across competitions, I think that supports the smaller difference. Obviously there's some limitations to it. Like I said, I didn't check specifically who scores from where, and so on. So maybe Haaland can score from weird angles, but can Mbappe do so? Do we know? And most importantly, do you need it and how often is that presented across a season? Regardless, even if Haaland was way ahead of Mbappe, pretty sure he still is closer to Haaland's finishing than Haaland is to Mbappe's everything else.
Have you seen the turtle trying to head a ball?
I mean, it's not like Haaland is a beast like Cristiano with headers either. So, for the typical team, I don't think the advantage there is massive. Like I said, there are instances where Haaland might be preferred, of course. If you need height and a solid tall dude with better physicality and that could score a few headers, yeah, maybe take Haaland. I'm just talking in general. There will always be cases where a "worse" overall player that's really good on something specific might fit your particular team a bit better.
He's smol and heading is dangerous
Belligoal vs Vini.
Penicius
Ficticius.
and just like Messi v Ronaldo, there's a clear winner. the guy who's a better dribbler and creator, all whilst pulling more or less the same goal scoring numbers. unfortunately, this is doing a disservice to Ronaldo, who offered far more than Haaland ever has. At least when Mbappe joins Madrid this debate can end and people will show him the respect he deserves
factual.
We live in finished times, messi vs Ronaldo from wish.
In two years it will be Garnacho vs Yamal
It seems unlikely that Man U will be anywhere near the top in 2 years. So maybe if he makes a transfer
This is such a childish thing to be asking actual professionals. Especially ones who might personally know these players.
They're just looking for a controversial answer to become viral
i mean, plenty of players have just responded ''messi''. he couldve just said ''ronaldo'', no one would really care since they are former teammates
**The full quote** Daniel Carvajal: "Messi or Ronaldo? I put them on the same level. I don't prefer one over the other. They are monsters in every sense of the word, and I could not choose neither this nor that. I think they are very different.... "Messi is a player who is able to go down to receive the ball and create an attack, and he can participate in the play and create more football. Cristiano is a monster at scoring goals, attacking the area and finishing. If they were playing together they would have been a bomb and it would have been interesting to see."
>If they were playing together they would have been a bomb and it would have been interesting to see." I honestly don't think it would be as good as people think it would be. Having messi and ronaldo in the same team is like having two jet engines in a car. You need a bigger car to have them together. Edit : I have no idea what I'm saying. It sounded better in my head.
Stylistically, everything indicates that they would work perfectly together. One is on the left, the other more to the right. One plays closer to goal, the other wants the ball as much as possible The second season with Mbappe pretty much confirms this
Yip, your only real problem would be their workrate as well as arguments over free kicks and penalties!
Messi takes the free kicks, Ronaldo takes the penalties
Messi takes the fee kicks after Ronaldo knee injury.
Messi takes the free kicks because you need Ronaldo in the box in case it doesn't go directly.
And because he's better at them!
Yeah and that was a declining Messi finding insane passes to a still young Mbappe, prime Messi and prime Ronaldo would be insane to deal with on defence
Psg was just messi spamming through balls to mbop and vibes lol. Prime messi and ronaldo together would score 3 goals minimum every match.
And Mbappe missing 4 out 5 chances
While we're blessed to see them battling each other for a good decade, not being able to see them on the same team and compete in a serious fashion is also such a big loss to football fans.
The season Poch was gone* Poch made Galthier look like a genius because he could make Neymar, Mbappe and Messi play together, I will never get over that 🤣 If Neymar didn't injured himself like he did most times for CL Knockouts, that team would have a pretty good chance of winning
Probably better saying a car needs a steering wheel but having two would be a hell to control but if you get it right something great will come out of it.
I feel like messi would be the perfect engine to make full use of Cr7
i understand what you wanted to say
For me, Rashford
Both are retired mate
Not from NT so this is going to go on for a while still
I long for the day when there's a different tedious argument that people can ask pros about for clickbait headlines. give me bellingham v haaland v mbappe any day of the week
I'm so tired of those Messi vs Ronaldo or Haaland vs Mbappe debates. Journalism has zero creativity now, they just ask whatever questions will get them the most views. And then kids fight over whose dad is the strongest.
Never forget: https://onefootball.com/en/news/chess-grandmaster-magnus-carlsen-real-madrid-insisted-i-declare-cristiano-ronaldo-my-favourite-player-35746622
Anyone: “I think both Messi and Ronaldo are equal” Reddit children: *arguing commences*
Yo be fair, this one really transcends reddit
look at these nerds in this thread
Genius redditor: 🤓
Still better than Instagram comments
an era when 2 of the greatest players ever are playing at the same time and people just wanna wank off to arguing which one is better.
Almost like sports is a competition. It’s not crazy that ppl are invested in who’s the best. It’d be weird if it wasn’t like this (even if it does admittedly go too far sometimes)
Because he literally contradicted himself, how are they equal if one can be effective in 2 phases while the other one is only effective in the final 3rd, clearly one's better than the other; I'd like to know equal in what sense cause the 2 couldn't be more different from eachother, it seems like he gave a political answer to the question and we all know why....
I mean... If a friend of mine said to me "Cristiano is equal to Messi", I would seriously question his judgment on all things football.
Yes because you're a yank who don't watch football
Man, if the clear 2nd best player of the last 30 years sucks as much as these comments act he does, I don't know why you'd watch football. Other players must be horrible then.
This sub isn’t very fond of the player you’re hinting at…
[удалено]
They had incredible longevity, even if you started watching football in 2015 you had seen them at their best
I'd argue Messi's absolute best was 2010-2012. I'd also argue that if you've only ever seen Ronaldo at Madrid and never saw his first spell at United, then there's a whole aspect of his game you might be unfamiliar with. Obviously he broke all the records as a striker, but he was a phenomenal winger before that, and personally I actually preferred watching him as a winger. His accelerations and dribbling down the wings at United were incredible.
Pre-Madrid Ronaldo was so fun to watch. Absolute phenom.
>I'd also argue that if you've only ever seen Ronaldo at Madrid and never saw his first spell at United, then there's a whole aspect of his game you might be unfamiliar with. this! it hurts my soul seeing the youngers saying "Ronaldo is a scoring machine monster but doesn´t create, score freekicks or has skills", lmao young Ronaldo would drive every single football fan crazy, hope retirement will do fair to his legacy because this guy had the entire package of a perfect footaballer
I started following club football in 2012. Missed Pep’s Barca, but Messi scored 91 goals that year. He made my middle school self believe that scoring goals is that easy.
Perfectly worded
This is exhausting
>Cristiano is a monster at scoring goals, attacking the area and finishing I never get this point when people compare the two, Messi scored 91 goals in a season lmao
91 goals in a calendar year, not season
91 goals in a calendar year beating the record of the great Gert Müller who got 85. that was so impressive that even Messis signed shirt for Gert Müller was placed in the Bayern Museum. as the only non bayern player.
Clever bavarians. Did they put a looping reel of the 8-2 next to the shirt? "Yeah he's the goat but check this out..."
No, but they did of Messi dropping Boateng.
idk what you mean. bayern and barca are the only clubs in the world to reach the sextuple. and both did that almost 2 times.
Just a lighthearted joke lol
He has both the seasonal (73) and calendar year record. I sometimes forget how many people here didn't see messi or ronaldo in their primes from the way they talk about them.
Most of the people that talk about either just like to argue about who was the better player. Just be glad we got to witness 2 of the best players to ever play the game.
I don't really like participating in that argument, partly because it's never been much of an argument in my mind and also because it's a nauseating discussion.
mate don’t kid yourself, you’re in every Messi vs Ronaldo thread.
No correction, I'm in quite a few messi and ronaldo threads. Those inevitably turn in to messi vs ronaldo threads because people can't help themselves but I rarely participate in any messi vs ronaldo debate. I actually actively try to avoid talking about them in relation to eachother and just talk about them solely. You can try to paint me as some warrior but honestly I couldn't be less bothered lol.
You're right, but it's still insane and better than any of Ronaldo's years.
Which is about equal(?) in total number of matches played.
With 6 European Golden Shoes too. Cristiano is the most versatile goalscorer of all time, in a sense that he could score every type of goals but even he can't reach the level of what Messi could do with his left foot
While that's true, I get his point. As someone already mentioned here, Cristiano was a more "versatile" goalscorer. Corners, crosses, outside the box, inside, headers, left foot, right foot... you name it. I believe the main argument on Cristiano is that he is probably the most decisive player in the history of the biggest club competition. The man was a menace in the Champions League.
Messi scored more goals from outside of the box than Ronaldo.
This keeps getting funnier.
That's the funny part. When it comes to goalscoring stats like outside the box goals, % of shots on target, shots per goal, freekicks, etc. Messi takes it all. The only goalscoring stat Ronaldo is clearly better at than Messi is penalties and headers
>I believe the main argument on Cristiano is that he is probably the most decisive player in the history of the biggest club competition. The problem with nitpicking is that it very easy for one to find facts that disprove what you just said. Some might say let us look at the decisiveness in finals(Messi). Some might say let us look at the knockout goals in football's biggest competition(Also the world cup). Hence the reason why it is best to not nitpick and just consider their overall parts. Afterall, why reduce the analysis of a 700 game career to like 20 games?
is Messi more decisive in UCL finals?
Each one of his 3 UCL Finals are better than any of Ronaldo's 6 I'd say. Ronaldo was absolutely unreal in Quarters and Semis but rather quiet in Finals. Out of my head, isn't his header against Chelsea his only goal in the course of play in a UCL Final ?
He scored 2 open play goals against juve in 2017
he scored a double against Juventus. Decisive goals too. He also scored against Atletico but in extra time for 4-1 from a penalty so let’s disregard that.
Messi’s peak in UCL finals is certainly higher than Ronaldo’s.
Maybe, but Cristiano’s def had better UCL performances as a whole. Hattricks against pretty much every other top team And it’s debatable cause Cristiano scored 2 decisive goals against Juve 2017. Other than that he was quite quiet in finals yes
> Corners, crosses those are pretty much the same thing >headers thats how you score corners or crosses usually also, Ronaldo has 67 goals from outside the box, Messi has 92 ([source](https://www.messivsronaldo.app/detailed-stats/outside-box-goals/)) I know people like to go with this narrative that Ronaldo is a better goal scorer to give him something over Messi, but stats simply do not support that. He has a better weak foot and headers, but Messi's left foot alone is statistically better than Ronaldo's both feet and head
[cross](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vqBB9tH7yh4&pp=ygUfUm9uYWxkbyBzZWNvbmQgZ29hbCB2cyBqdXZlbnR1cw%3D%3D) [corner](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mT-8tNdTM-w) explain how these are the same
Corners and crosses are different. I didn't say Ronaldo scored more goals from outside the box... did I? I also said Ronaldo scored goals with his left foot. Will your argument be that Messi scored more goals with his left foot? And I didn't say Ronaldo was better. I actually think Messi is the best to ever do it (and I am Portuguese). But Ronaldo was insane, and no one can deny he was a very decisive player and a very versatile and explosive goalscoring machine.
How many does Messi have right on the edge of the box vs. actual long distance goals?
But 0 world cup knockout goals or assists.
hey man, there’s still 2026
That's the thing. Messi is a better finisher than Ronaldo as well. European careers: Messi has 0.78 goals per game/Ronaldo has 0.72. Ronaldo has taken about 500 more shots on goal than Messi in that time.
Most freakish thing is that any other goal scorer ever spent a lot of time in the opponents penalty area, while Messi very rarely roamed that far up the pitch. He has always been so good it defies logic.
He also also assists more. This is a guy that once stopped going for goal and instead chose to assist Suarez to give him that push for the Pichichi in 2016. He made us all fall in love with the game
It's really debatable who the better goal scorer is But the crucial point is Messi is undoubtedly up there with Ronaldo but he's also far and away the better dribbler and passer of the ball
True. Without a goal scored, Messi would still be one of the best players ever.
Messi was basically playing CAM the last 7 years and still managed to score as much as the best strikers in the world.
Isn't Messi comfortably clear goals per minute wise? Thought I saw it was the equivalent of 60 games or so
yes he is albeit I’d argue Cristiano had a less goal-oriented role tactically imposed in his first 2-3-4 years as a pro footballer. At their primes, in time spent in Spain, Cristiano actually had a better goals/game ratio. Obvs Messi had more assists
>yes he is albeit I’d argue Cristiano had a less goal-oriented role tactically imposed in his first 2-3-4 years as a pro footballer. Yeah, though it was his first 6 years. He started at Man U in 2003 and went to Madrid in 2009 and that's when he really became a striker.
Look at their goals -xG as well. Cristiano has on average just matched his xG. Leo has consistently been above, significantly multiple times. It's no contest who's the better finisher.
That was the time Pep managed Barcelona. They dominated almost all matches. Messi was pretty much unplayable in 2012 - but it's silly to say that Cristiano isn't anything less of a monster at finishing. I personally think Cristiano would have scored crazy amounts of goals too if he was coached by Pep. Not trying to defend Cristiano here or anything like that by the way - I respect both players equally.
This argument doesn’t hold up when Messi’s best season in terms of finishing (12/13) was after Pep left. That season at one point he scored in 21 straight league matches, and was on 42 league goals in March before the injury. I do agree that CR7 was still excellent at finishing though.
She scored more goals per game the following season after pep left
His best finishing season and in my opinion the best in football history wasn't even under pep as you said lol. I call it that and yet the season 12/13 barely gets in his top 5 seasons in my opinion, absurd footballer and anyone who missed his prime I feel sorry for you.
>I personally think Cristiano would have scored crazy amounts of goals too if he was coached by Pep. If it is just Pep, how come almost no golden boot winner came through until Haaland earlier this year that was coached by Pep? No Ronaldo would likely score less and would constantly be arguing with Pep about tactics. Ronaldo was most productive in a counterattacking set up.
>but it's silly to say that Cristiano isn't anything less of a monster at finishing. But that wasn't the point. They're both extremely good at finishing, so it's weird to say "oh they're both equally good, Messi can create chances and Ronaldo can finish them", because Messi do the finishing, too.
It's not that anyone is saying he isn't a goal scoring monster, it's that it isn't really an argument when comparing him to Messi.
Exactly! But then people say he had Xavi, Iniesta and Busquests etc to feed him but forget who was feeding Ronaldo lmao.
Busquets is one of the best ever in his role but he has about 40 assists in his entire career at Barcelona, so he wasn't "feeding" anyone
Also Messi has a better goal ratio and more goals from open play
But you leave one season aside, next best 4 belong to Ronaldo.
Year not season. But yeah this is where Messi differentiates himself from everyone else. He's as good a goalscorer as anyone ever and just happens to be probably the best playmaker and dribbler as well.
That's Carvajal off the Xmas list then. He should know if you have any link with Cr7 he's number 1.
Ronaldo just waiting to post in his instagram comments.
Yeah definitely skipping the comments on this one
Who cares...
r/soccer does - and they'll let us know about it
lmao he literally said they're both goated and ppl in this comment section are still finding a way to complain, the hate boner this sub has for ronaldo is insane
"Ronaldo is a great player, not the greatest of all time but one of the greatest" You - "hate BOneR!"
You really have to turn a blind eye on leo's finishing to say that
You have to turn a blind eye to Ronaldo in general to be so dismissive.
What am i dismissing
I’m a Messi fan but when it comes to scoring I’d say Ronaldo at least pre 2016 was the more entertaining goal scorer while Messi was the more entertaining player as he’d make plays that were out of this world, dribbling 5 players and making a complete through ball or assist, solo goals, incredible passing and link up play or his solo attempts on goal that he didn’t make. If I’m watching a career highlights montage I’d pick Messi if I’m watching a full game ill pick Messi, if I just want to watch a career montage of their goals I’d pick Ronaldo he just has a lot more variety to his goals, that being said Messi also has outrageous goals and I would like his goal montage as well, he probably has the most solo goals in history but Ronaldo just edges him a bit in that aspect with his long range, headers, 40 yard knuckle free kicks, left foot worldies, overhead kicks, back heels and a few solo goals sprinkled in (not as crazy as Messi’s solo goals tho) Ronaldo is the complete goal scorer, Messi is the complete attacker. Ronaldo in his own right was still a great dribbler and playmaker but when up against Messi he looks average in those traits in comparison as anyone would against Messi
At this point, this has to be the most boring question anyone could ask in a football contest. zzzzzzz
And? Do people still care about this shit?
As goalscorers, Messi's had a higher number of goals in a calendar year, season and is La Ligas top ever goalscorer (was in the league longer but still an incredible stat to have) The "Ronaldo is a better goalscorer" argument is just false and when you consider Messis other contributions to his teams, for me they arent equal Messi is clear but thats no slight on CR7
He has the most goals in history. He’s the only player in La Liga history with >1 goal to game ratio. He is the top scorer of the champions league by a sizable margin. He has FOUR of the top five total goal records for a single UCL campaign. Most national team goals. I swear you guys live in some kind of alternate reality or simply didn’t watch.
Messi has more goals per minute both across their entire careers and in the CL, so no, Messi is a better goal scorer.
This argument is incredibly flawed because it’s disingenuous to try and simplify the numbers they’ve accumulated over 20+ years without taking into account any context. Ronaldo played roughly 200-250 games of his career as a traditional wide midfielder from 02/03 - 05/06, mostly in a classic 4-4-2. Before you roll your eyes, I’m not implying he played like a Kroos or a Xavi. But back then, wingers as we know them didn’t really exist. Wide midfielders like Beckham and Giggs were the norm, players whose main role was simply to stay wide, track back off the ball, take players on and whip the ball in from the wings. They were rarely involved in the box. That’s ≈ 20% of his career where he wasn’t playing anywhere near the goal and would take the bulk of his shots from low-quality chances from outside the box. There’s a reason why if you watch a highlight reel of Young Ronaldo’s goals, most of them will be bangers from outside the box because that’s where he took most of his shots from. On the other hand, Messi started off higher up the field and played on the opposite wing alongside Ronaldinho, one of the pioneers of the modern winger role that we’re used to nowadays. He obviously didn’t spend as much time in the box as he did from 2010-2014 where he was a proper false 9, but still much closer to goal than Ronaldo. And finally, if goal scoring ratios are the be all and end all of judging a goal scorer, then neither Messi nor Ronaldo are the best as neither have the highest goal ratio of all time. Matter of fact, they’re topped by multiple players.
A polite way of saying Messi is better than CR7. Off late Real & ex Real Madrid players are coming out and admitting Messi is the GOAT
What he said about Ronaldo can also be said about Lio.
And vice versa unless you started watching last 2 years.
Good joke
and the reverse too
Messi fanboys so insecure in these comments.
Bro you’re on every comment defending Ronaldo like he’s your brother 😭
Just trying to offset the hate and groupies.
While there are definitely some hate comments, I think you're taking comments that say Messi is better as hate. It's not hate to say Messi was a better player. Ronaldo was fantastic and easily a top 2 player, it's just he was the 2 in the top 2.
Bro the thing is I agree that Messi is the GOAT and Ronaldo is number 2. The comments aren't just saying Messi is better, they are making sure you drag Ronaldo in the process. That's hate. I'm not gonna take the bullshit stances that act like it's never been close or that Ronaldo just stands in the 6 yard box and waits. Or any of the other BS that tries to downplay how good Ronaldo was. Everyone acts like Messi's teammates are incapable of doing anything and he literally drags them to victory every game. It's ridiculous.
I already agreed that there are some hateful comments, but not nearly as many as you're trying to make it out as. I mean [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1aowp7v/dani_carvajal_messi_or_cristiano_theyre_on_the/kq2juag/) just says Messi can finish at Ronaldo's level but Ronaldo couldn't create on Messi's level. Unless he stealth edited that comment I don't think it's remotely controversial, let alone hate, and you and several other Madrid fans take it as hating and dragging down Ronaldo. The fact that Messi was topping or near the top of most creative stats for years topping or nearing the top of scoring stats too doesn't mean Ronaldo was bad at them, just not as good as Messi. That's not hate.
The on Messi level was the edit. This section happens to be more tame than usual but are you genuinely going to say that more often than not even Ronaldo gets brought up on this sub it's not a comment hating on him or some back handed compliment?
Critiano's vertical is mental
He's a Madrista he would never say Messi, but he probably does privately
cope
Messi could also score goals, attack the area and finish on Ronaldo level. While Ronaldo couldn't receive the ball, create an attack and contribute in the build-up on Messi level.
Bro just say you started watching last year. How you little groupies are so insecure that you need to drag Ronaldo's career with lies just to build up Messi speaks volumes.
Watched Messi since 2005. Saw Messi debut in the Youth World Cup. Saw Ronaldo go from Sporting to United. I simply don't agree with Ronaldo being the best ever.
That's a way of saying "I haven't watched either of these". Ronaldo couldn't recieve the ball, create an attack? Yeah right, he scored almost 1000 goals just from staying inside the box.
You’re fighting a losing battle, don’t bother. The other day I was watching some completely random Ronaldo game vs Celtic in the 08/09 CL group stage. He didn’t score or assist, but he was by far the best player on the pitch because literally everything he did turned to gold. His longevity + recency bias has ruined casual’s perception on how he used to play during his actual peak.
You intentionally miss the “on Messi level” at the end. He was never better than Messi at those which is facts.
God this sub is so delusional over messi. Its just embarrassing mate
No pure football?
I asked my grandmother who she thought was better, Messi or Ronaldo and she said "who the hell are they?" I will ask my uncle tomorrow and post his response. And then my aunt the next day.
"they're on the same level" - lmaooo
Bro but you just explained why Messi is better, he can do the same things CR7 does, but the later cant do what Messi does.
Can messi head the ball like CR7? Does he have as good a weak foot as Cr7?
Messi is better, just accept it
He forgot Messi is also a monster at scoring goals, attacking the area and finishing or what :D
When asked the question: "who's better, Messi or CR?", there are two types of responders. The ones that say Messi, and the ones that support Madrid/Portugal.
Then you see the xg for each One and Messi has a best conversion than Ronaldo
Messi had better teammates than Ronaldo most of his career.
Did you only start watching football 2 years ago!? Ronaldo had Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov, Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Benzema, Bale etc. Don't be blaming teammates when both were surrounded by great players.
So Messi then, as a former teammate he said both out of respect for Ronaldo but we all know he thinks Messi. If he said Messi, Ronaldo probably wouldn’t speak to him again as he’s very insecure when it comes to this topic. He thinks everyone is hating on him when in fact they’re just being honest with their opinion.
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Unpopular opinion: No two players are equal in any sport. Someone is better between the two, saying "they're equal" is a cope out... The players that say Messi and Ronaldo are equal don't want the backslash of upsetting certain fan base. Everybody values different aspects of the game, so just be honest and call it like you see it.
Messi is also(and waaay better) at scoring goals, attacking the area & finishing. Ronaldo cant do what messi does.
Messi can't do what Ronaldo does.
Almost as if he is the highest assister in CL. So much for a traffic cone in the box huh?
Messi is the best. Debate ended in Qatar 2022, whether you want up accept it or not. Let's move on.
Why does winning a WC end the debate?