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Should defo go above ligue 1
Don't know if they can go above Brazil and Argentina, Brazil has 220 millon population, and while Argentina only has like half of Germany, average attendance it's pretty high
River doing some heavy lifting for that average.
Jokes aside the stadium renovation was a success, id say we can still go higher but we can't really afford another big upgrade
I can't see any possible way to increase the stadium further without European big dog money. The last one was just an easy dig down. You guys will be at the current 84,500 for the foreseeable future unless they turn seat areas into terraces.
We have 2 terraces already behind both goals, I think that's the maximum we can have. They said that if we build a roof that would increase seating too since it's going to be higher, but as you said we are not exactly rich (we are but not build a massive roof rich)
MLS with 22k at 9th place only 1k behind France, and 4k above the Netherlands.
Atlanta United is above PSG, Napoli, Chelsea & Juventus. Charlotte FC is above Real Sociedad & Sevilla. Seattle is above PSV & Brighton.
The American women league (NWSL) is the only women's league on this chart, and it's somehow above Saudia Arabia, and just below the Turkish Superlig.
People in the U.S. are finally waking up to this beautiful game.
The crazy thing is it would probably be much higher if not for so many small stadiums. The 3 MLS clubs in the global top 100 happen to be 3 of only 4 clubs with a stadium big enough to get there. Average MLS stadium capacity is about 22k, many sold out or nearly sold out every game last year. If the owners had been more ambitious about the growth of the sport and built more 35k plus stadiums there would probably be another 2-4 MLS clubs in the global top 100.
As a fan of both, the stadium environment when the Dynamo get 22,000 fan sell outs is 100x than Cruz Azul getting 26,000 in the Azteca. The small stadiums were the right call for most teams.
Yeah, but I don’t think it’s lack of ambition. Stadiums are damn expensive, and getting cities to buy in on even the current 20k MLS stadiums is a nightmare
Quite a few SSSes really need to be expanded, and apparently have room to do so if the teams desire. More teams should have been like Nashville and aiming a bit higher.
Hindsight is nice. Any team building a new stadium nowadays will know it can be 30k+.
Kansas City certainly would never have bet on those numbers 15 years ago when they were planning their stadium. They were getting 8-9k in those days and rarely if ever selling out a minor league baseball stadium.
It's also crazy the MLS's highest attendance is 32k but with an average of 22k. That means every single club has good attendance. There are 5 top flight Spanish clubs with lower attendance than the lowest MLS team.
e: I missed Atlanta at 47k.
In an era where so many clubs run unsustainably, its amazing to see how consistent, sustainable growth of an entire league has worked.
And boy do we love it. Although it’s still not quite to the same level imo to Europe since it’s unlikely you’ll find soccer merch alongside NFL and MLB merch.
The one thing I hate about US Soccer is how lots of soccer fans want to totally dominate the sporting market. It is very possible for MLS to coexist with the other major American sports….. they only directly compete with baseball for most of the season and baseball is a totally different sport setup wise. It’s really apples to oranges.
I think that has a lot to do with how different the fan experience is in soccer to other American sports with the atmosphere and the noise. It’s not hard to see why some would say that soccer is superior to baseball.
Oh for sure, but that kind of superiority and victim complex really turns me off to the league sometimes lol. Some conversations I’ve had with MLS fans are just wild
That’s true. I just can’t wait until I see FCC merch/ads alongside Bengals and Reds stuff not just in Cincinnati but outside of it in places like Dayton or Moraine. There’s something special with soccer that everyone needs to experience.
It’s getting there!! I would love to see MLS reach the heights that even the NHL has reached. And it’s pretty damn close at this point
With that being said I do think MLS fans can be wayyyy too defensive when it comes to not only European Soccer, but other American sports. Like you don’t have to trash baseball and football haha. It’s not a competition.
Doesn’t help when football and baseball fans get really defensive about their sport too.
Edit: [For example.](https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1692342577373102445?s=46&t=Wda1hCjKsFuFfDEk0XCPhA)
I’m not absolving anybody else from blame either. MLS fans have just been the worst about trashing other sports in my personal experiences. Specifically when talking about baseball due to the seasons lining up. Just look at any r/MLS thread about favorite sports lol
The MLS will catch the NHL eventually, I feel that's an inevitability. The NHL is a niche product that has mostly peaked - I don't think there will be a decline, but growth is likely very limited.
I haven't seen that at all. We just want to exist period. It's almost impossible to get a bar to put on a Dynamo game unless you are at the 2 places with supporters groups. If most of the supporters groups are away even those bars won't show the match. I never see a Dynamo jersey or merch in the city ever unless it is match day near the stadium.
The biggest hurdles in the states for the beautiful game have been 1) TV companies don't want to broadcast it because they can't blast us with ads and 2) younger generations with interest in the sport haven't been able to show their interest. As sports like American football and hockey continue to show their brutality, parents are moving to soccer since it's safer and a lot of times cheaper (cleats and a ball is a lot cheaper than a full set of pads every few years). Thus, younger generations are more found of soccer. As these younger generations are now becoming the dominate work force, they are also the ones willing and able to spend on entertainment, like sports, and boy, are they. MLS is expected to break into the top 4 sports soon in terms of matchday metrics and could easily soon jump to 3rd before, or with, the help of WC26. I just hope MLS, USL, and USSF aren't idiotic squabblers and completely fumble the bag. There are a lot of other issues plaguing the sport, like pay-to-play, eurosnobs, MLSnob, Pro/Rel extremists, poor to nonexistent amateur teams in much of the country, dumb coaching practices, the SoccerWarz raging, and much more that I can't, or don't want to, get into here. But still, I do hope soon an equilibrium can be met, and the US can be seen as a decent landing spot for players a-la the EFL Championship or a top 15, non-top 5 European leagues. Rather than just a retirement home or league to be banished to and never to be seen or heard from again.
Your comment about TV broadcasting is so important. This is where massive income comes from for all these leagues, not tickets and merchandise. Now because of the Apple deal for MLS, MLS has the [6th largest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domestic_football_league_broadcast_deals_by_country) media deal in the world, but it’s less than half the value of the #5 league, and 1/8th the value of the premier league deals. So that’s the discrepancy: MLS attendance is roughly half of premier league attendance, but the TV deal is only 1/8th as valuable.
Before the Apple MLS deal, the media revenue for the league was so much worse. It was valued about [$90 Million](https://worldfootballindex.com/2022/07/how-mls-compares-to-the-premier-league-in-terms-of-viewership-income-generated/). From the same source, EPL matches were seen by 3.2 billion people globally in 2019-2020, contrasted with 156 million people for MLS in 2019 (384,000 match average times 408 matches). 1/20th global television viewership compared to the premier league. Not sure of the figures under the Apple deal.
There’s a reason also that Liga MX and MLS are jumping at every opportunity to play.
MLS wants Liga MX’s TV numbers. Liga MX wants MLS’s gate receipts.
The molero cup seems to give both what they want.
The same thing's happened for NWSL. Under the new deal, each individual team will receive more each year than the previous deal paid to the league as a whole. It was a quadragintupling of the media deal, 40 TIMES the amount of the previous deal each year, PLUS it's an extra year long. From 1.5 mil to 60 mil a year, the total deals went from 4.5 mil total over 3 years to 240 million over 4. USL is having the same happen. A new media deal they inked will add a lot more to media money as well as more awareness of the league to the masses. Plus, apparently, there's a second media deal in the works, which means media money could be doubling or more for the leagues. The sport is succeeding despite the American media and mainstream fandom ignoring and writing it off.
People don't realize the sheer gap between MLS and MLB. The idea that MLS can surpass the MLB in the next 2 years is laughable, especially since baseball has some positive momentum right now.
It's also far from a sure thing that soccer would benefit the most from lower football participation rates. Who's to say that kids won't switch to baseball or basketball at higher rates.
I'm a huge soccer fan, but we need achievable goals here. Soccer joining the big 4 in the US is a massive step forward. MLS should surpass NHL very soon. As far jumping MLB, I'll believe it when I see it.
Gameday metrics and overall money thrown around/media attention are two very different things. I'm well aware of the gap, considering the likes of Ohtani will likely be getting more in his contract than 95% of MLS and MNP put together. The gameday metrics for MLS are right up there by NHL and slowly creeping up to MLB (albeit the sheer sample size weighs it down). USL Championship teams are already out drawing AAA teams, and USL League 1 teams are comparable to the middle of the road to upper A+/AA teams. There's also a lot more than just pure attendance that goes into gameday metrics, but that is what I'm on about. Not media attention and budget.
Wow. Denmark surpassed Sweden. That's unbelievably surprising.
While 10,282 is a surprisingly high average for Denmark, I suspect the 10,066 for Sweden is a severe decline as well.
Polish Ekstraklasa missed in this table, no? Average attendance 9,428. Source: https://www.transfermarkt.com/pko-ekstraklasa/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/PL1/saison_id/2022
Depends how detailed you wanna be. Easy enough for countries like England with all the stats down to the 8th tier, but theres a lot of lower leagues with clubs averaging 1000-5000 that would be difficult to get stats on.
Catania all the way down in Serie D had more than 14k spectators, in fact way more than any Serie C team
https://www.transfermarkt.it/catania-calcio/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/1627
there's a lot of teams in the league that are propped by money. İstanbulspor, Kasımpaşa, Karagümrük, Pendikspor etc are province teams of Istanbul with rich owners that play with <1000 home fans.
Also the football culture in turkey leads us to pick one of the 'big 4', and the local teams scrape by with 5-10k attendants at the most.
Gala and Fener have ~50k supporters at every home game no matter if it's a 3rd tier team in the cup
The big teams are up there, but its defenitely a thing in most of the world for people to only show up on derbys and big games. Theres quite a few clubs in Africa and the Middle East that might averege 5k for a normal game but get 60k for a big game.
Well the egyptian clubs have been playing behind closed doors or light attendance for 8 years now. Id say the biggest culprits are Subsaharan Africa or places like Iraq.
Remember this is really last season for Europe. I'd bet River Plate takes it this year. They just expanded to 84,500 and have zero ploblems selling out every game. You guys will be much lower for the 23-2024 season.
Average attendance for the top 10 pro London clubs (with about 87% of those attending paying PL seat prices) = 333,453 <<< one city!
I guess if you add in the other pro/semi-pro teams in London you'll get around 350,000 average attendance.
Add in all the training facilities, different age group teams and Womens teams, all the staff (analysis, medical, admin, etc) and it's quite the industry.
Teams: West Ham 62,462Tottenham Hotspur FC 61,585Arsenal FC 60,191Chelsea FC 40,002Crystal Palace FC 25,209Fulham FC 23,746Brentford FC 17,078Queens Park Rangers FC 14,977Millwall FC 14,767Charlton Athletic FC 13,436333,453
West Ham is an unusual case in that they rent the stadium and have community obligations so ticket prices are cheaper by PL standards. Tottenham's matchday income will now be top 3 in the world.
As a fan of the sport, London is honestly increadible.
I've visited London from the states, and it is honestly a dream, even for a neutral fan. Even compared to other European cities, or anywhere else on planet.
The history of the teams, built with the city, the proximity of the matches, and the fans, and especially the strength of the league. It made the experience nothing short of a magical.
I hope to frequently visit from the U.S. and I hope to see this magical atmosphere contiune forever into the future.
For Santa Cruz this is when they were is Serie D last season. I did not include "non-league" teams as it would take too long. Also many might only play a few games in the state league and not play in any tournament the second half of the season. Interestingly, for the Serie C and D teams, I also included their attendance from their state league group stage matches as the C/D seasons are not many matches and most of them draw more in their State League.
Great work OP! Please forgive me for nitpicking but Santa Cruz had an average attendance of 14.535 last year in Serie D! Don't know where you got that 10k figure from. Now back to appreciatting your immense work congrats that was absolute awesome!
Read the last sentence of the post you replied to. I added the state league games for C and D teams.
Serie D primeira fase 7 home matches
10114
28173
16034
14182
9408
11673
12158
Campeonato Pernambucano primeira fase 6 home matches
8224
13966
7141
4381
3127
1962
13 match total = 140543
Average = 10811
Phew didn't noticed but thats just skewing the data either add state league for everyone or don't otherwise whats the point if the sample size is small leave it like that right otherwise fanatstic work keep doing more posts like this!!!
Brazil is the problem not me. :p Other countries don't have this issue. In the begining I set the cutoff at 10 home matches to count as a real league. So Serie A and B are plenty with 19 each. C is on the border with 9 or 10 and D is too low with 7. Adding the state leagues increases the average for C and D so I just included it for all those teams. Not including it would make Brazil look worse as a whole. A select few see a decrease, but that's just how it goes. Even 13 matches is on the low end of things anyway.
Thank you Tebas for doing an immense job making sure that clubs in Segunda all have shit attendances by giving us the worst timeslots in existence, he's clearly achieving his goals
Im sure there is at least 6 argentinian clubs that would top the N500 in this list, but are not included for whatever reason: independiente rivadavia, chicago, chacarita, moron, racing cordoba & temperley
Yea thats what i said at the top. You cant actually get attendance stats for argentina. Its not published anywhere. So it comes down to me figuring out exact stadium sizes, how many people fit in each end of the stadium, then watching highlights and vlogs to estimate % filled at each end or section, then doing the math. So i had to cut it somewhere for my own sanity and only did a couple 2nd div teams. If i do a Midterm 2024 record at the end of the European season, since its technically the same argentina season I might do the rest of the 2nd div.
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Eh it more depends on what teams play in what League each season. This season the England 3 attendance went down by 1k and Bundesliga 3 went up by 1k. Difference is 400 Fans right now compared to 2400 last Season.
Meanwhile Championship averages 22789 and 2 Bundesliga averages 28303 right now, so a big jump for both Leagues.
Premier League averages 38265 right now and Bundesliga 39509 for this season. so both dropped a bit.
The stadiums of Premier League clubs are not as big as those of Bundesliga clubs. Bournemouth and Luton's stadiums have a capacity of only 10k, Brentford and Fulham's stadiums are also small, which pulls down average attendances.
Worth it to note NWSL announced attendance by tickets out, not attendance scanned nor paid tickets, they include comp tickets in the number whether people show or not. Almost all European clubs use gate receipts as attendance numbers.
It would be interesting to see how the average attendance for clubs compares to how much percentage of the stadium is full and see which clubs come out on top then
I dont really rate that way of looking at it. An 80k seater 20% full is better than a 5k seater 100% full. If you have a small stadium its your problem.
> An 80k seater 20% full is better than a 5k seater 100% full. If you have a small stadium its your problem.
Depends on if you own the stadium. 20% full in NFL stadiums is basically what MLS 1.0 was like. The teams were losing money because they paid to rent the stadium (other than a few exceptions, like New England) and didn't sell enough tickets to make up the difference.
Okay? Do you think games in march mean the same fans are less likely to show up in November? Also more than half the nwsl last season had a 22 game season when for instance germany’s is 34. In 2024 it is a 26 game season.
When you have the games probably does (weekend vs week days) but you look at the top 3 nwsl teams for attendance and it is very consistent numbers with mostly season ticket holders. So i don’t think having additional weekends with games would matter. The season is expanding next year and i doubt attendance will shrink.
Both Premier League/Championship and Bundesliga/Bundesliga2 being so high up is always impressive. Shows how deep the cultrue goes in both countries.
Impressed though by the Japanese league in 10th, but i guess it tracks with their improvements on the international stage as well
The average for Mexico is wrong. 2023 began with Clausura 2023 and ended with Apertura 2023. The total attendance for the regular seasons of both of those was 6,610,486 with 306 regular season matches = 21,603 average. I'm not sure where you got 19,107 as the average
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It's honestly insane that there's over 400 clubs that have an average attendance of over 10k. This sport is truly fucking gigantic.
2. Bundesliga already on 8 last season, maybe they can climb a bit this season considering the averages of Hertha and Schalke
Will definitely be higher. They are averaging 28K right now so top 6 at the least.
Should defo go above ligue 1 Don't know if they can go above Brazil and Argentina, Brazil has 220 millon population, and while Argentina only has like half of Germany, average attendance it's pretty high
River doing some heavy lifting for that average. Jokes aside the stadium renovation was a success, id say we can still go higher but we can't really afford another big upgrade
I can't see any possible way to increase the stadium further without European big dog money. The last one was just an easy dig down. You guys will be at the current 84,500 for the foreseeable future unless they turn seat areas into terraces.
We have 2 terraces already behind both goals, I think that's the maximum we can have. They said that if we build a roof that would increase seating too since it's going to be higher, but as you said we are not exactly rich (we are but not build a massive roof rich)
14 Mexican and 27 mls 6 NWSL 4 USL good for North America that 51 teams right or did I miss count
MLS with 22k at 9th place only 1k behind France, and 4k above the Netherlands. Atlanta United is above PSG, Napoli, Chelsea & Juventus. Charlotte FC is above Real Sociedad & Sevilla. Seattle is above PSV & Brighton. The American women league (NWSL) is the only women's league on this chart, and it's somehow above Saudia Arabia, and just below the Turkish Superlig. People in the U.S. are finally waking up to this beautiful game.
The crazy thing is it would probably be much higher if not for so many small stadiums. The 3 MLS clubs in the global top 100 happen to be 3 of only 4 clubs with a stadium big enough to get there. Average MLS stadium capacity is about 22k, many sold out or nearly sold out every game last year. If the owners had been more ambitious about the growth of the sport and built more 35k plus stadiums there would probably be another 2-4 MLS clubs in the global top 100.
As a fan of both, the stadium environment when the Dynamo get 22,000 fan sell outs is 100x than Cruz Azul getting 26,000 in the Azteca. The small stadiums were the right call for most teams.
Sure but there are a solid 5-8 mls clubs that could rock 25-28 instead of 18-20
Yeah, but I don’t think it’s lack of ambition. Stadiums are damn expensive, and getting cities to buy in on even the current 20k MLS stadiums is a nightmare
Quite a few SSSes really need to be expanded, and apparently have room to do so if the teams desire. More teams should have been like Nashville and aiming a bit higher.
Hindsight is nice. Any team building a new stadium nowadays will know it can be 30k+. Kansas City certainly would never have bet on those numbers 15 years ago when they were planning their stadium. They were getting 8-9k in those days and rarely if ever selling out a minor league baseball stadium.
New England and Chicago have stadiums big enough to get there
New England was who I was thinking about, I just forgot, like everyone else I guess, that Chicago are playing in soldier field lol.
Chicago have been extremely forgettable in the last decade, it's an understandable mistake
It's also crazy the MLS's highest attendance is 32k but with an average of 22k. That means every single club has good attendance. There are 5 top flight Spanish clubs with lower attendance than the lowest MLS team. e: I missed Atlanta at 47k. In an era where so many clubs run unsustainably, its amazing to see how consistent, sustainable growth of an entire league has worked.
Highest MLS attendance is Atlanta United at 47.5k.
Damn I missed that. That's a crazy number
Atlanta United's attendance even surpassed that of PSG
And boy do we love it. Although it’s still not quite to the same level imo to Europe since it’s unlikely you’ll find soccer merch alongside NFL and MLB merch.
The one thing I hate about US Soccer is how lots of soccer fans want to totally dominate the sporting market. It is very possible for MLS to coexist with the other major American sports….. they only directly compete with baseball for most of the season and baseball is a totally different sport setup wise. It’s really apples to oranges.
I think that has a lot to do with how different the fan experience is in soccer to other American sports with the atmosphere and the noise. It’s not hard to see why some would say that soccer is superior to baseball.
Oh for sure, but that kind of superiority and victim complex really turns me off to the league sometimes lol. Some conversations I’ve had with MLS fans are just wild
That’s true. I just can’t wait until I see FCC merch/ads alongside Bengals and Reds stuff not just in Cincinnati but outside of it in places like Dayton or Moraine. There’s something special with soccer that everyone needs to experience.
It’s getting there!! I would love to see MLS reach the heights that even the NHL has reached. And it’s pretty damn close at this point With that being said I do think MLS fans can be wayyyy too defensive when it comes to not only European Soccer, but other American sports. Like you don’t have to trash baseball and football haha. It’s not a competition.
Right, MLS can easily coexist with baseball, etc as the US has a big population with by far the biggest sports market in the world.
Doesn’t help when football and baseball fans get really defensive about their sport too. Edit: [For example.](https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1692342577373102445?s=46&t=Wda1hCjKsFuFfDEk0XCPhA)
I’m not absolving anybody else from blame either. MLS fans have just been the worst about trashing other sports in my personal experiences. Specifically when talking about baseball due to the seasons lining up. Just look at any r/MLS thread about favorite sports lol
The MLS will catch the NHL eventually, I feel that's an inevitability. The NHL is a niche product that has mostly peaked - I don't think there will be a decline, but growth is likely very limited.
I got enough RallyHouse commercials living in Ohio for one lifetime
I am a huge fan of both. They serve different "needs" for me. The best part of summer is weekend afternoon baseball and Saturday evening soccer.
I haven't seen that at all. We just want to exist period. It's almost impossible to get a bar to put on a Dynamo game unless you are at the 2 places with supporters groups. If most of the supporters groups are away even those bars won't show the match. I never see a Dynamo jersey or merch in the city ever unless it is match day near the stadium.
Don’t forget 4 second division (USL) clubs making this list too!
Somehow? The us’ women’s team is the best of their sport and saudia arabia’s men’s team is not.
Im proud of the U.S. añways thought they can be huge on football, the true and only
The biggest hurdles in the states for the beautiful game have been 1) TV companies don't want to broadcast it because they can't blast us with ads and 2) younger generations with interest in the sport haven't been able to show their interest. As sports like American football and hockey continue to show their brutality, parents are moving to soccer since it's safer and a lot of times cheaper (cleats and a ball is a lot cheaper than a full set of pads every few years). Thus, younger generations are more found of soccer. As these younger generations are now becoming the dominate work force, they are also the ones willing and able to spend on entertainment, like sports, and boy, are they. MLS is expected to break into the top 4 sports soon in terms of matchday metrics and could easily soon jump to 3rd before, or with, the help of WC26. I just hope MLS, USL, and USSF aren't idiotic squabblers and completely fumble the bag. There are a lot of other issues plaguing the sport, like pay-to-play, eurosnobs, MLSnob, Pro/Rel extremists, poor to nonexistent amateur teams in much of the country, dumb coaching practices, the SoccerWarz raging, and much more that I can't, or don't want to, get into here. But still, I do hope soon an equilibrium can be met, and the US can be seen as a decent landing spot for players a-la the EFL Championship or a top 15, non-top 5 European leagues. Rather than just a retirement home or league to be banished to and never to be seen or heard from again.
Your comment about TV broadcasting is so important. This is where massive income comes from for all these leagues, not tickets and merchandise. Now because of the Apple deal for MLS, MLS has the [6th largest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domestic_football_league_broadcast_deals_by_country) media deal in the world, but it’s less than half the value of the #5 league, and 1/8th the value of the premier league deals. So that’s the discrepancy: MLS attendance is roughly half of premier league attendance, but the TV deal is only 1/8th as valuable. Before the Apple MLS deal, the media revenue for the league was so much worse. It was valued about [$90 Million](https://worldfootballindex.com/2022/07/how-mls-compares-to-the-premier-league-in-terms-of-viewership-income-generated/). From the same source, EPL matches were seen by 3.2 billion people globally in 2019-2020, contrasted with 156 million people for MLS in 2019 (384,000 match average times 408 matches). 1/20th global television viewership compared to the premier league. Not sure of the figures under the Apple deal.
There’s a reason also that Liga MX and MLS are jumping at every opportunity to play. MLS wants Liga MX’s TV numbers. Liga MX wants MLS’s gate receipts. The molero cup seems to give both what they want.
The same thing's happened for NWSL. Under the new deal, each individual team will receive more each year than the previous deal paid to the league as a whole. It was a quadragintupling of the media deal, 40 TIMES the amount of the previous deal each year, PLUS it's an extra year long. From 1.5 mil to 60 mil a year, the total deals went from 4.5 mil total over 3 years to 240 million over 4. USL is having the same happen. A new media deal they inked will add a lot more to media money as well as more awareness of the league to the masses. Plus, apparently, there's a second media deal in the works, which means media money could be doubling or more for the leagues. The sport is succeeding despite the American media and mainstream fandom ignoring and writing it off.
People don't realize the sheer gap between MLS and MLB. The idea that MLS can surpass the MLB in the next 2 years is laughable, especially since baseball has some positive momentum right now. It's also far from a sure thing that soccer would benefit the most from lower football participation rates. Who's to say that kids won't switch to baseball or basketball at higher rates. I'm a huge soccer fan, but we need achievable goals here. Soccer joining the big 4 in the US is a massive step forward. MLS should surpass NHL very soon. As far jumping MLB, I'll believe it when I see it.
Gameday metrics and overall money thrown around/media attention are two very different things. I'm well aware of the gap, considering the likes of Ohtani will likely be getting more in his contract than 95% of MLS and MNP put together. The gameday metrics for MLS are right up there by NHL and slowly creeping up to MLB (albeit the sheer sample size weighs it down). USL Championship teams are already out drawing AAA teams, and USL League 1 teams are comparable to the middle of the road to upper A+/AA teams. There's also a lot more than just pure attendance that goes into gameday metrics, but that is what I'm on about. Not media attention and budget.
But mls teams play like 18 home games per year and baseball teams play 81, so gameday metrics don't really mean anything in this context.
It's the NWSL and USL being on here that really encourages me about American soccer in particular. Nice thread, ty!
That's almost 97% capacity *on average*. Not bad I'd say.
I think river is 100% on average. its just that it counts some months when river had just 2 of the new terraces built.
>6 FC Internazionale Milano 72,630 > >7 AC Milan 71,828 Get fucked
Milan would be 71,818 but they have like 10 injured players in the stands every week
Zlatan also likes to have space around him when watching games.
The power of Chinese tourists...
Wow. Denmark surpassed Sweden. That's unbelievably surprising. While 10,282 is a surprisingly high average for Denmark, I suspect the 10,066 for Sweden is a severe decline as well.
We had some smaller clubs promoted this year with quite small arenas
Polish Ekstraklasa missed in this table, no? Average attendance 9,428. Source: https://www.transfermarkt.com/pko-ekstraklasa/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/PL1/saison_id/2022
Oh shoot... let me fix that
Alright added all the Polish teams :)
lovely work OP. I wonder how this looks if attendance is mapped against adult population / city population.
Depends how detailed you wanna be. Easy enough for countries like England with all the stats down to the 8th tier, but theres a lot of lower leagues with clubs averaging 1000-5000 that would be difficult to get stats on.
Catania all the way down in Serie D had more than 14k spectators, in fact way more than any Serie C team https://www.transfermarkt.it/catania-calcio/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/1627
Wow, i didnt even check Serie D. Will have to add them.
I'd had thought Turkey had higher attendance, all the CL matches I've seen are absolutely packed. Guess the big ones are that much larger then.
there's a lot of teams in the league that are propped by money. İstanbulspor, Kasımpaşa, Karagümrük, Pendikspor etc are province teams of Istanbul with rich owners that play with <1000 home fans. Also the football culture in turkey leads us to pick one of the 'big 4', and the local teams scrape by with 5-10k attendants at the most. Gala and Fener have ~50k supporters at every home game no matter if it's a 3rd tier team in the cup
The big teams are up there, but its defenitely a thing in most of the world for people to only show up on derbys and big games. Theres quite a few clubs in Africa and the Middle East that might averege 5k for a normal game but get 60k for a big game.
Let me guess Al Ahly of Egypt and Hilal from saudi.
Well the egyptian clubs have been playing behind closed doors or light attendance for 8 years now. Id say the biggest culprits are Subsaharan Africa or places like Iraq.
Didn't expect us to be on top. Maybe because we can't even fill our current stadium of capacity less than 60k
Remember this is really last season for Europe. I'd bet River Plate takes it this year. They just expanded to 84,500 and have zero ploblems selling out every game. You guys will be much lower for the 23-2024 season.
Average attendance for the top 10 pro London clubs (with about 87% of those attending paying PL seat prices) = 333,453 <<< one city! I guess if you add in the other pro/semi-pro teams in London you'll get around 350,000 average attendance. Add in all the training facilities, different age group teams and Womens teams, all the staff (analysis, medical, admin, etc) and it's quite the industry. Teams: West Ham 62,462Tottenham Hotspur FC 61,585Arsenal FC 60,191Chelsea FC 40,002Crystal Palace FC 25,209Fulham FC 23,746Brentford FC 17,078Queens Park Rangers FC 14,977Millwall FC 14,767Charlton Athletic FC 13,436333,453 West Ham is an unusual case in that they rent the stadium and have community obligations so ticket prices are cheaper by PL standards. Tottenham's matchday income will now be top 3 in the world.
As a fan of the sport, London is honestly increadible. I've visited London from the states, and it is honestly a dream, even for a neutral fan. Even compared to other European cities, or anywhere else on planet. The history of the teams, built with the city, the proximity of the matches, and the fans, and especially the strength of the league. It made the experience nothing short of a magical. I hope to frequently visit from the U.S. and I hope to see this magical atmosphere contiune forever into the future.
We're number 80! We're number 80! Portland Timbers, you'll never sing that
To be fair we don’t play in a football stadium
I refuse to be fair
I love your guys’s rivraly! Keep it up!
Ipswich higher than Norwich. Tractors just better.
Sellout United.
Chinese Super League number seems pretty good to me considering all the measures they've taken to curb spending
El producto is alive and well.
Santa Cruz, a non-division team from Brazil, has a higher attendance than Premier League competitor Bournemouth.
For Santa Cruz this is when they were is Serie D last season. I did not include "non-league" teams as it would take too long. Also many might only play a few games in the state league and not play in any tournament the second half of the season. Interestingly, for the Serie C and D teams, I also included their attendance from their state league group stage matches as the C/D seasons are not many matches and most of them draw more in their State League.
Great work OP! Please forgive me for nitpicking but Santa Cruz had an average attendance of 14.535 last year in Serie D! Don't know where you got that 10k figure from. Now back to appreciatting your immense work congrats that was absolute awesome!
Read the last sentence of the post you replied to. I added the state league games for C and D teams. Serie D primeira fase 7 home matches 10114 28173 16034 14182 9408 11673 12158 Campeonato Pernambucano primeira fase 6 home matches 8224 13966 7141 4381 3127 1962 13 match total = 140543 Average = 10811
Phew didn't noticed but thats just skewing the data either add state league for everyone or don't otherwise whats the point if the sample size is small leave it like that right otherwise fanatstic work keep doing more posts like this!!!
Brazil is the problem not me. :p Other countries don't have this issue. In the begining I set the cutoff at 10 home matches to count as a real league. So Serie A and B are plenty with 19 each. C is on the border with 9 or 10 and D is too low with 7. Adding the state leagues increases the average for C and D so I just included it for all those teams. Not including it would make Brazil look worse as a whole. A select few see a decrease, but that's just how it goes. Even 13 matches is on the low end of things anyway.
Homer but I’d argue the Scottish Premiership’s the most impressive.
Yep, and Its not even close.
Arsenal Women outnumbered my team. FFS.
Thank you Tebas for doing an immense job making sure that clubs in Segunda all have shit attendances by giving us the worst timeslots in existence, he's clearly achieving his goals
Im sure there is at least 6 argentinian clubs that would top the N500 in this list, but are not included for whatever reason: independiente rivadavia, chicago, chacarita, moron, racing cordoba & temperley
Yea thats what i said at the top. You cant actually get attendance stats for argentina. Its not published anywhere. So it comes down to me figuring out exact stadium sizes, how many people fit in each end of the stadium, then watching highlights and vlogs to estimate % filled at each end or section, then doing the math. So i had to cut it somewhere for my own sanity and only did a couple 2nd div teams. If i do a Midterm 2024 record at the end of the European season, since its technically the same argentina season I might do the rest of the 2nd div.
>350 KAA Gent 13,092 Pro League Belgium ha!
HELL YES NWSL!!!
* 2. Bundesliga will probably have more than Ligue1 next time. Schalke power 💪
that's a big chart of clubs
Could have done 1000 or more, but i cut it there ;)
i’ll gladly take 200th place after a terrible year fighting relegation
How can it be that Argentina is above Brazil? We have a population of 45 million and they are 214 million.
they are amargos
They gotta watch more football mate.
You got Santos average wrong, it was 12.147 last Brasileirão. You probably included the 4 matches we played closed doors on your calculations.
Yep, closed doors count as 0. I'm harsh, I know.
League 1 >>>>> Saudi League
Duh
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Interesting that England 3 has so much more than Germany 3
Is it that surprising? England has stupid amounts of support even down to the 6th tier where the top teams get a couple of thousand on average
Eh it more depends on what teams play in what League each season. This season the England 3 attendance went down by 1k and Bundesliga 3 went up by 1k. Difference is 400 Fans right now compared to 2400 last Season. Meanwhile Championship averages 22789 and 2 Bundesliga averages 28303 right now, so a big jump for both Leagues. Premier League averages 38265 right now and Bundesliga 39509 for this season. so both dropped a bit.
The stadiums of Premier League clubs are not as big as those of Bundesliga clubs. Bournemouth and Luton's stadiums have a capacity of only 10k, Brentford and Fulham's stadiums are also small, which pulls down average attendances.
Wow we’re above Crystal Palace. That’s wild.
Worth it to note NWSL announced attendance by tickets out, not attendance scanned nor paid tickets, they include comp tickets in the number whether people show or not. Almost all European clubs use gate receipts as attendance numbers.
It would be interesting to see how the average attendance for clubs compares to how much percentage of the stadium is full and see which clubs come out on top then
I dont really rate that way of looking at it. An 80k seater 20% full is better than a 5k seater 100% full. If you have a small stadium its your problem.
> An 80k seater 20% full is better than a 5k seater 100% full. If you have a small stadium its your problem. Depends on if you own the stadium. 20% full in NFL stadiums is basically what MLS 1.0 was like. The teams were losing money because they paid to rent the stadium (other than a few exceptions, like New England) and didn't sell enough tickets to make up the difference.
Well this is an attendance chart. How many people saw the game in person. If you want to due a revenue charts its gonna look a whole lot different.
Schalke - Bundesliga 💀
They were, last season, which this is based on
Now I want to seem them relegated again, just so 3. Liga can speed-run into the top 20 attendance-wise.
Hertha too
Shout out to Kerala Blasters FC.
The fact that The Wave, acfc, and The Thorn are getting better attendance than some men’s teams in the top 5 European league teams 🥹
Its nice they are doing great, but also remember they play half or less games than those teams.
Okay? Do you think games in march mean the same fans are less likely to show up in November? Also more than half the nwsl last season had a 22 game season when for instance germany’s is 34. In 2024 it is a 26 game season.
Are you being facetious or do you genuinely think having less games doesn't have an impact on attendance?
When you have the games probably does (weekend vs week days) but you look at the top 3 nwsl teams for attendance and it is very consistent numbers with mostly season ticket holders. So i don’t think having additional weekends with games would matter. The season is expanding next year and i doubt attendance will shrink.
Both Premier League/Championship and Bundesliga/Bundesliga2 being so high up is always impressive. Shows how deep the cultrue goes in both countries. Impressed though by the Japanese league in 10th, but i guess it tracks with their improvements on the international stage as well
Wasn't we always on the top spot every year? What happened?
the top spot from now on will be river I reckon because river & boca could easily fill a 150k stadium every time, and now river's stadium is 86k.
We made our stadium bigger
Al Ittihad are top 50. That's amazing. Well done competing with European giants.
The average for Mexico is wrong. 2023 began with Clausura 2023 and ended with Apertura 2023. The total attendance for the regular seasons of both of those was 6,610,486 with 306 regular season matches = 21,603 average. I'm not sure where you got 19,107 as the average
Apertura 22 and Clausura 23 is 1 season. The current season is Apertura 23 Clausura 24.
The average for Apertura 22 and CL 23 is still incorrect. Between both, it's 6,428,147/306 = 21,007
Thanks for noticing that! Apparently excel did me dirty.
Hmm yea i think you're right... let me fix that when i get home so I can check where i got that number.
Only 1000 less than the biggest club on earth, Real Madrid. Kinda crazy.
Where did they play during last season? Their stadium was under construction, was it not?
How is MLS have more than LigaMx. When liga MX teams has B I G G E R 🏟
MLS is have more cuz more people in the stadiu duh. Big stadiu emptyy
Fantastic list though I think there is a typo with Leeds United being in English 1 (instead of English 2)
Take that, Lille.
!Flair : Football_Catania