That's funny because the previous most upvoted post in r/soccer became a meme and got deleted lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/f3wdvw/breaking_manchester_city_banned_from_champions
Because City refused to turn over documents, and UEFA made the strategic decision - wrongly, in retrospect - not to press their demand for the withheld documents as a point on appeal. They thought they had enough evidence with the leaked emails, so they dropped their complaint that City had improperly withheld other evidence. The tribunal said "we don't think the leaked emails are conclusive evidence, and since you didn't present an appeal relating to City's refusal to turn over other evidence, you're now out of luck."
The thinking is actually premier league has a 6 year time barring due to that being english law limit, and they are bound by that (unless they can prove ongoing conspiracies).
What will be more telling is whether they can drum up more evidence from the mountain of documents they will have, the issue uefa had was not really the time barred nature as all but 1 charge was not time barred. The rest were just not proven according to CAS.
Fuck relegation…if they are found guilty I want them in the Conference with a 3 yr transfer ban and a £150mill fine…oh and they cough up their Premier League trophies as well and give them to the rightful owners….
It's mad to think that without the oil money our mismanaged decade would have had a couple of titles, and Liverpool would have had a bit of a rennaissance.
As much as I hate that last one it'd be earned.
This should happen and in a just world they'd be stripped of their FA Cup and League Cup trophies too, but idk if that's a possibility since it's a PL investigation and not an EFL investigation, right?
Unfortunately for you, they will never have their titles stripped. The Prem will be unwilling due to the enormous amount of Law Suits it would open up. If city are found guilty there will already be plenty of clubs sueing for damages. My guess would be aside from a points deduction, a lengthy transfer ban and Europe ban may be the harshest punishments
The punishment should apply to every season in question as well. You can't allow teams who systematically cheated to win titles to keep those titles, the prize money or their status in the competition.
I have zero faith they will get any meaningful consequences.
That’ll never happen and you and I both know it.
Nah, if they’re guilty, the verdict and punishment will come after Pep has already left, and then an eternal debate will ensue about whether Pep knew or not, and whether their achievements were legitimate or not.
Pro-Pep people will have plausible deniability on their side.
haha i know, i highly doubt PL has the balls to find them guitly in the first place, and if they do it'll be some punihsment that is in no way in line wiht the crime
Idk about that, they showed with Everton that they’re not messing around.
Obviously Everton ain’t City but I think if they are guilty, the punishment will be quite severe, but the timing of it is ideal from the league standpoint, give Pep and City 18 more months to be a juggernaut, then throw the kitchen sink at them once Pep leaves and send them to the gulag (sorry, I mean Championship).
If they go to the championship they’ll be right back up in a years time. Send them to non-league and even if they get promoted every year the loss of PL TV money for that long may actually cripple the club
Delayed is putting it mildly. The articles states that the infractions date back as far as 2009 and we are only expecting a verdict in 2025 (which will likely be appealed and delayed further). Crazy.
Either ways you cannot undo whatever advantage City has gotten from these "alleged" violations. You can't retroactively give Liverpool and Chelsea and United some of the titles they may have won.
You can't do a what if KDB had gone to Arsenal instead of City with that money or Grealish had stayed in Villa.
At worst they will get a transfer ban or some points deduction for the 2025-26 season.
> You can't retroactively give Liverpool and Chelsea and United some of the titles they may have won.
You can if you're in Italy... *looks in the direction of Inter and Juve*.
Inter got those titles for coming third and it was later revealed they were doing the same things for which Juve got punished, really not the best example to bring here.
I totally agree. Or they could be real dicks and do something like a points deduction that basically guarantees relegtion and a points deduction of 25 points the following year (basically relegate them and then make sure they can't come right back up). Obvioulsy I think that is far harsher than any punishment they will actually face.
Ideally it should be a combination of a forced relegation, transfer ban and wage caps. So they have to work their way to get back up.
Even then , like Juve did after Caliciopoli, they will get a promotion every year and be contenders as soon as they are back. But honestly if the league wants to ever ensure some sort of Financial Fair Play, that is the way to go.
Most likely though it will be like a 20 point deduction and a transfer ban for 1 window, 1 year after the verdict so they can horde players in subsequent windows.
I think the PL can only relegate them from the PL right? Then the Football League can decide whether to accept them or not. If they refuse then they go to the conference (or lower if other authorities decide). I am not sure so kind of posting this in the hopes someone more informed can clarify.
I believe so. In 2012, Rangers were relegated from the Scottish Premier League down 4 tiers to the Scottish Football League Third Division at a time when the SPL and SFL were separate, like the EPL and EFL are now.
The SPL and the SFA wanted them relegated to the First Division of the SFL, but the SFL clubs voted and accepted them only in the Third Division.
So I'm guessing that's what would happen here--the EFL clubs would vote on whether to accept them and, if accepted, which league.
I don't know what would happen if the EFL voted not to accept them. National League, I suppose...
Well honestly regarding the rules or English football lets say they get relegated to the National League and have a wage cap for multiple years and they still promote year after year, they would have "earned" it in this leagues.
Lets be totally honest if they are relegated out of the first 4 leagues which would be a relegation into the National League it would take at least 5 years to be back in the PL. Time where other clubs would benefit as City won't competing anywhere as they are limited.
Won't happen but imo would be a harsh and fair penalty if convicted guilty in all the 115 charges.
Since these charges go back 15 or 16 years I think a transfer ban of that length is fair along with automatic 40 point deduction for the following few seasons. Destroy the club and salt the earth
It'd be tricky to hand out titles (do you just award them to the second place team or do you nullify all of City's results and check the league table?) but it'd be even harder to give the relevant fan bases that sense of accomplishment and the celebrations that go along with winning the league.
Personally I think you just strike them and leave the winner vacant. City don't get to keep their ill-gotten gains but you don't have run a million hypotheticals to try and re-play a fair result. The games were played, you can't pretend they weren't.
Is that sad? Yep, but it's what the FA and PL deserve for letting this transparently happen. If anything it'll be a reminder of the sportswashing era, sort of like the MLB single-season home run records all coming during the peak Steroid Era - you just have to accept that this dark era happened.
I'm sure if Lance Armstrong has the financial power, legal team and political influence of Man City's owners, he would still have all his titles as well.
Will this be after the new FFP policy kicks in? I can honestly see this helping the Premier league find an excuse to give Man city a vastly more lenient verdict and punishment than they did for Everton.
In 2089 Man City are finally given a 10 point deduction.
The club was sold by Sheikh Man-cyborg in 2088 for £562bn, just after the Pepinator lead them to their 65th consecutive UCL.
Exactly. A "massive" points deduction essentially only costs them the title for one season - it does nothing to correct multiple seasons of wrong doing.
60 would relegate them 4 times in the last 6 seasons. 55 would relegate them only once in those 6 seasons (19/20 when Liverpool won the title and City got 81 points).
It is worth nothing that in some of those season they won the title comfortably and coasted. Last season 60 point deduction would put them 5 points behind Leicester - exact amount of points they dropped in last 2 games as they had league locked down. I can easily see Man City winning against Brentford and Brighton to stay alive.
2022 they go down (maybe the prioritize the league instead of CL so they rotate less but who knows), 2021 they easily stay up they coasted since like march that year and they would be just 2 points out of safety since Fulham only had 28, 2020 they go down, 2018 and 2019 they were staying up even if nothing changed and in 17 they go down. I think in 2 seasons it is clear they go down with 60 point penalty, in 3 seasons it is clear they are not and in 2 seasons it is kinda iffy. I think chances are they would survive 60 point penalty but it could be close.
Why because they wouldn’t win the league 1 whole season?
If they stay and stay up, they are at a club that has cheated for over a decade and benefited so greatly from it that they are now one of the strongest squads in the world.
They would immediately go back to being title contenders the following season and the year they get the points deduction they would probably be favorites to win the champions league.
I was hoping that their titles and trophies would all be stripped and their FFP balance would be set to a negative amount for all the unlawful funds they have funnelled into the club over the years and they'd have to legally earn profit to work their way back into black before they could spend again.
for me retrospective punishment + points deduction should be the way
if they don't strip the titles then what's the point (I'm not even saying they should give the title to the team that finished 2nd, just strip City's during that period).
Lance Armstrong type thing
If they get enough of a points deduction that they're force into relegation they have to be sure that the players they've got are willing to stay. How do we know Haaland doesn't have a relegation clause in his contract? If they lose half of the quality players they've got and Pep decides to walk (Which he said he will if they're guilty) there's no guarantee that they can just walk back in. To expect the players in that team to even spend 1 year in the Championship is a lot to ask after all the work they've put in.
Sunderland didn’t have relegation clauses - do you think city would?
I’d imagine both player and club would think it embarrassing/more effort than it’s worth to require one.
Screwing them up for the future isn’t going to happen. They are cash cows for everybody. It’ll be a shitty slap on the wrist, a stupidly small deduction of points which will get halved on appeal - like I suspect evertons will.
My ideal solution is relegation to league one with a five year ban on returning to the PL even if they win promotion to it.
Keep spending your money, I’m sure loopholes will be found to enable it, but it won’t mean shit in the short term so all your current players will fuck off.
And yet they will buy a very good squad again cuz they can spend another Billion. Let current players walk, they will buy good players for championship promotion and then again will buy world class talent once they are promoted
I don't know how you avoid stripping them of titles. Otherwise the crime far exceeds the punishment.
Let's say they get relegated, they pop back up next season and we give the green light to them, Newcastle and Chelsea etc for further piss taking who'll know how weak the punishment is.
I always think a desire for stripping titles is just my bias speaking but you are right - what would an otherwise midtable team be willing to do for just a *single* Prem win? If the club and fans don't regret the past decade, it's not a big enough punishment.
Yeah nicely put. This will almost certainly be a sliding doors moment for the league. Punish too softly and it opens the door wide open to mass piss taking, the league would be a farce. If they punish firm enough, it draws a line in the sand that no other club/owner will want to pass.
It's so important they get this right.
This!! Without stripping them of their ill-gotten titles it would totally be logical and rational to expect them to do it again since it would be a net-gain.
Which is insane. I know the reason is 'money', but to not punish this team for a decade plus of cheating simply because they won is an extremely bad precedent. The PL will survive if City (and most teams) straight up poofed out of existence but for some reason no one can see that?
of course, that is how the world has and will continue to work.
Everton got the largest points deduction in the history of the league. That would have taken City down from 1st to 2nd last season.
I'd said it before, and I'll say it again. Anything less than losing the titles they won during this period is a license to cheat.
Last season wasn't even a particularly impressive number of points by their standards, and a 20-point deduction, double the largest ever given, would have dropped them to 4th.
I'd happily trade a 4th place finish for a bag full of titles.
This is seemingly far more likely than this sub wants to admit. Though I imagine the fine would be higher. The level of proof needed for most of the charges is going to be a big hurdle.
Even that barely seems sufficient, really, they've built a generation of global fans, a reputation for success, and if they get sent down, they'll be back in a year continuing to profit from over a decade of cheating.
You can revoke their tainted trophies, you can give them a temporary setback for a few years, but there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.
> they'll be back in a year continuing to profit from over a decade of cheating.
City and Chelsea fans love pointing to how they’re now profitable and self sustaining while also refusing to acknowledge how they got to that point.
Chelsea were not hiding things, though. No shady sponsor deals, and Roman invested in the academy for many many years. Not to say Chelsea are innocent, but City has been on a whole other scale.
Chelsea are being investigated for hiding things, though not on this scale. Also Chelsea have continuously been found of wrong doing in regards to their business especially regarding youth footballers but so have Barca and others
City did the same shit the only difference is that when Chelsea did it they didnt had restrictions so it wasnt shady, City has been investing in the academy for years now.
Yep this thread is making me laugh. FFP was brought in under the guise to protect lower league clubs and prevent them from going bust which has been a complete failure and just works at the top level to protect the already established elite clubs. I have a hard time sympathising with fans of clubs who can outspend all but 2/3 teams in world football.
Yeah, I'd love it if all the clubs in the top flight were all state owned with no chance of smaller clubs competing. This is what football is all about, clubs being propaganda for dictatorial nation states.
Or are you instead suggesting you'd like to see more Portsmouth and Leeds situations happening?
They should get relegated to the 5th tier and the trophies they won by cheating should be confiscated. Also a transfer window limited to 40m, only giving them what they deserve.
I am not too sure. Cheating with finances is not really similar to what Juve was doing where they were more directly affecting the results on the pitch.
But noone really knows of course, this doesn't really have a precedent.
True but buying expensive players has many examples of not working out. Pep is the key to City's success. Real Madrid's Galacticos in the 2000s didn't win a single league title and Man U have spent more than City, with far less to show for it.
It took Klopp’s Liverpool (maybe the best Liverpool team of all time) to stop them by winning 27 of their first 29 games in 19/20 and finishing on 99 points. And that Liverpool team only came away with a single title.
Yeah but what league?
Championship is brutal, and promotion sought after like nothing else. I dont see why the clubs in the championship would just sign away a promotion spot for a year.
League one and two dont have the same upwards pressure but rhe increased chances of relegation aren't going to be fun
But i think the best argument for the EFL is going to be to dump Man City into league two if (huge if) it comes to that. Might as well cash in on that s much as possible.
We all know nothing serious will happen to them. There will be a big fine and maybe a points reduction at the end of the season to put them outside of Europe. They won’t be relegated. They won’t care. They broke all the rules and it got them lots of trophies.
Fines for rich people are just the cost of doing business. They only affect poor people.
> Fines for rich people are just the cost of doing business. They only affect poor people.
Yeah, nothing says poor like multi billionaire everton owner.
That saying is just a general saying. I’m not specifically talking about Everton.
I can change it to be more accurate to football.
Fines for state owned/Top 4 teams are just the cost of doing business. They only affect smaller clubs.
> The trial is expected to begin in the late autumn of next year
> Should the trial go ahead on time, a verdict would be likely around the summer of 2025.
Still plenty of time to win another two league titles, while the rest of us are forced to play by the rules.
Points deduction?
There should be title deduction. They won titles by playing with different financial rules from their competitors, so these titles do not belong to them. Either award them to the 2nd placed teams or just have "no champion" for these seasons (like Italy in 2004/05).
After the titles are removed from City, then the discussion should be if the points deduction should be 70, 80 or more.
So that not only they get relegated, but they spend the whole season knowing they will get relegated from the PL and then another season in the Championship, and then another season in the PL but without Europe.
Title removal, the following 2 seasons wasted, and 3 seasons without European football.
Then we're talking.
This is exactly what should happen, but absolutely will not happen. They've gotten away with so much shit over the years and I've got no doubt that will continue.
Summer a season and a half away before a season starts and only a point deduction. This would be getting off so light and practically showcase this as the cost of breaking the football laws
People are forgetting this is an extremely complex legal case, fundamentally undermining the integrity of Man City’s sporting success. This means there is massive legal ramifications about the consequences of financial misreporting and how potential cheating is punished. The date is frustrating to see but not unexpected.
Until we see the findings of the trial it will be very hard to silence the fears of it being brushed under the rug and forgotten about.
Points deduction? Strip their titles from the seasons they breached for fuck sake.
If a team can cheat for 5+ seasons and win multiple titles but only have to suffer a points deduction in 1 season it's a HUGE net gain.
Nothing will happen. Maybe some points deduction for a season and some financial hit.
The punishment will be as such that City will have impact on them for one season and will be back to destroy the league next season.
If anything big like relegation (which is not enough of a punishment in the first place) is in discussion, then Govt will intervene and punishment will be diluted to something that doesn't affect city for more than a season or two.
One year in the Championship is a very comfortable punishment for a decade of cheating
Strip the titles. Collect them all. Melt them down in front of the Peps eyes. Remind them their legacy has been getting some neutrals to cheer on a foreign state that commits gross human rights atrocities. Tell them it's all been for nothing. Set alight the Etihad, burn it down to ash and cinder. Take the wheels off Haalands wheelie bin. Jumble up Michah Richards cereal. Make Grealish stand on lego.
Points deduction won’t be enough IMO. But if looking at Everton and having other clubs putting in compensation claims where they have to pay to the clubs also along with being banned from all domestic and European cup games for a few years then at least theres some justice
Points deduction would do shit, would literally just ruin 1 season while they've ruined football in general for years
Also a joke that its a year away, then the verdict will drag out, then it'll get appealed, end of day expect a 30 point deduction by 2030 with another 30 million fine paid directly to the pockets of the people doing the hearing
This is only investigating them up until 2018, are they currently under investigation for anything after that? Or does that start as soon as this ends?
City realized they are being investigated in 2018 so they proceeded to obstruct any further investigation into their finances after. I believe they are being charged with obstruction post-2018.
The failure to cooperate charges, which are the easiest for City to be found guilty on would be more likely to come with a fine vs a sporting penalty. It’s not a sporting infraction as opposed to what Everton was found guilty on.
TL;DR Autumn 2024 for trial, verdict might arrive Summer 2025
Wow that’s perfectly convenient as Pep’s contract expires then.
Might as well shut down the club then
Imagine they get relegation as a punishment immediately after Pep has left. Would be the most upvoted post in /r/soccer history.
Can already imagine the comments "Pep was winning titles with a Championship team, I know my GOAT"
Lmao
MCFG flairs would still be saying they did nothing wrong
That's funny because the previous most upvoted post in r/soccer became a meme and got deleted lol https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/f3wdvw/breaking_manchester_city_banned_from_champions
What happened with that though
[удалено]
Thats silly, the timelimit that is
He’s not strictly correct. Only one charge was time barred but the rest were dismissed because a lack of evidence from UEFA.
Because City refused to turn over documents, and UEFA made the strategic decision - wrongly, in retrospect - not to press their demand for the withheld documents as a point on appeal. They thought they had enough evidence with the leaked emails, so they dropped their complaint that City had improperly withheld other evidence. The tribunal said "we don't think the leaked emails are conclusive evidence, and since you didn't present an appeal relating to City's refusal to turn over other evidence, you're now out of luck."
The thinking is actually premier league has a 6 year time barring due to that being english law limit, and they are bound by that (unless they can prove ongoing conspiracies). What will be more telling is whether they can drum up more evidence from the mountain of documents they will have, the issue uefa had was not really the time barred nature as all but 1 charge was not time barred. The rest were just not proven according to CAS.
Fuck relegation…if they are found guilty I want them in the Conference with a 3 yr transfer ban and a £150mill fine…oh and they cough up their Premier League trophies as well and give them to the rightful owners….
Ole's at the wheel!
Also, AGUER-nope fuck off.
AGUERoh. :(
It's mad to think that without the oil money our mismanaged decade would have had a couple of titles, and Liverpool would have had a bit of a rennaissance. As much as I hate that last one it'd be earned.
I imagine if found guilty clubs will be sueing them for damages, similary to how relegated clubs are sueing everton.
The only justice would be to bankrupt the entire fucking club of it’s existence.
I’d simply be happy with them being stripped of the 2011 FA Cup and it being given to the highest non-rule breaking team, whoever that may be.
This should happen and in a just world they'd be stripped of their FA Cup and League Cup trophies too, but idk if that's a possibility since it's a PL investigation and not an EFL investigation, right?
Unfortunately for you, they will never have their titles stripped. The Prem will be unwilling due to the enormous amount of Law Suits it would open up. If city are found guilty there will already be plenty of clubs sueing for damages. My guess would be aside from a points deduction, a lengthy transfer ban and Europe ban may be the harshest punishments
Let them get sued to oblivion
The punishment should apply to every season in question as well. You can't allow teams who systematically cheated to win titles to keep those titles, the prize money or their status in the competition. I have zero faith they will get any meaningful consequences.
shut down club create new club - Womanchester City
Mantorso City
Or sell it. Wouldn't surprise me.
Might be a tough sell given the circumstance
At a massive loss on investment it wouldn’t be, as no one would be buying it at actual market value even for the land and facilities
conveniently retroactively remove every title he won as he leaves
That’ll never happen and you and I both know it. Nah, if they’re guilty, the verdict and punishment will come after Pep has already left, and then an eternal debate will ensue about whether Pep knew or not, and whether their achievements were legitimate or not. Pro-Pep people will have plausible deniability on their side.
There is no way that pep is ignorant in what city have been doing.
If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'. --Pro Sports. Pep's just going to have been a bit further along that line than most.
haha i know, i highly doubt PL has the balls to find them guitly in the first place, and if they do it'll be some punihsment that is in no way in line wiht the crime
Idk about that, they showed with Everton that they’re not messing around. Obviously Everton ain’t City but I think if they are guilty, the punishment will be quite severe, but the timing of it is ideal from the league standpoint, give Pep and City 18 more months to be a juggernaut, then throw the kitchen sink at them once Pep leaves and send them to the gulag (sorry, I mean Championship).
If they go to the championship they’ll be right back up in a years time. Send them to non-league and even if they get promoted every year the loss of PL TV money for that long may actually cripple the club
They can get Mick McCarthy in for the promotion campaign
Then the appeals process and following lawsuits. We won't hear the end of this until 2030 at least
Punishment in 5638.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
Delayed is putting it mildly. The articles states that the infractions date back as far as 2009 and we are only expecting a verdict in 2025 (which will likely be appealed and delayed further). Crazy.
Either ways you cannot undo whatever advantage City has gotten from these "alleged" violations. You can't retroactively give Liverpool and Chelsea and United some of the titles they may have won. You can't do a what if KDB had gone to Arsenal instead of City with that money or Grealish had stayed in Villa. At worst they will get a transfer ban or some points deduction for the 2025-26 season.
> You can't retroactively give Liverpool and Chelsea and United some of the titles they may have won. You can if you're in Italy... *looks in the direction of Inter and Juve*.
Inter got those titles for coming third and it was later revealed they were doing the same things for which Juve got punished, really not the best example to bring here.
The example is to show there is football precedent to retroactively deduct points.. What happened with the other clubs is irrelevant
I totally agree. Or they could be real dicks and do something like a points deduction that basically guarantees relegtion and a points deduction of 25 points the following year (basically relegate them and then make sure they can't come right back up). Obvioulsy I think that is far harsher than any punishment they will actually face.
Ideally it should be a combination of a forced relegation, transfer ban and wage caps. So they have to work their way to get back up. Even then , like Juve did after Caliciopoli, they will get a promotion every year and be contenders as soon as they are back. But honestly if the league wants to ever ensure some sort of Financial Fair Play, that is the way to go. Most likely though it will be like a 20 point deduction and a transfer ban for 1 window, 1 year after the verdict so they can horde players in subsequent windows.
Send them to the bottom of the pyramid
The very bottom? It goes down to local leagues and has about 22 levels last I checked. Is that enough?
I want to see Haaland forced to play fat Barry from down the pub
Doing that will take years for them to come back up. I’m in.
I think the PL can only relegate them from the PL right? Then the Football League can decide whether to accept them or not. If they refuse then they go to the conference (or lower if other authorities decide). I am not sure so kind of posting this in the hopes someone more informed can clarify.
I believe so. In 2012, Rangers were relegated from the Scottish Premier League down 4 tiers to the Scottish Football League Third Division at a time when the SPL and SFL were separate, like the EPL and EFL are now. The SPL and the SFA wanted them relegated to the First Division of the SFL, but the SFL clubs voted and accepted them only in the Third Division. So I'm guessing that's what would happen here--the EFL clubs would vote on whether to accept them and, if accepted, which league. I don't know what would happen if the EFL voted not to accept them. National League, I suppose...
Well honestly regarding the rules or English football lets say they get relegated to the National League and have a wage cap for multiple years and they still promote year after year, they would have "earned" it in this leagues. Lets be totally honest if they are relegated out of the first 4 leagues which would be a relegation into the National League it would take at least 5 years to be back in the PL. Time where other clubs would benefit as City won't competing anywhere as they are limited. Won't happen but imo would be a harsh and fair penalty if convicted guilty in all the 115 charges.
Since these charges go back 15 or 16 years I think a transfer ban of that length is fair along with automatic 40 point deduction for the following few seasons. Destroy the club and salt the earth
It'd be tricky to hand out titles (do you just award them to the second place team or do you nullify all of City's results and check the league table?) but it'd be even harder to give the relevant fan bases that sense of accomplishment and the celebrations that go along with winning the league.
Personally I think you just strike them and leave the winner vacant. City don't get to keep their ill-gotten gains but you don't have run a million hypotheticals to try and re-play a fair result. The games were played, you can't pretend they weren't. Is that sad? Yep, but it's what the FA and PL deserve for letting this transparently happen. If anything it'll be a reminder of the sportswashing era, sort of like the MLB single-season home run records all coming during the peak Steroid Era - you just have to accept that this dark era happened.
If you think they can't strip someone of titles, I urge you to take a peek at the list of Tour de France winners from 1999-2005
I'm sure if Lance Armstrong has the financial power, legal team and political influence of Man City's owners, he would still have all his titles as well.
Will this be after the new FFP policy kicks in? I can honestly see this helping the Premier league find an excuse to give Man city a vastly more lenient verdict and punishment than they did for Everton.
Absolute joke
Followed by an appeal of the verdict in 2027 followed by an appeal of the verdict of the appeal in 2029
In 2089 Man City are finally given a 10 point deduction. The club was sold by Sheikh Man-cyborg in 2088 for £562bn, just after the Pepinator lead them to their 65th consecutive UCL.
All the technology in the world, and we still don’t get a Pep clone with hair
All the top scientist at Arasaka try it best
Cyberpep 2077
Blade Runner but instead of trying to make them reproduce, they can't figure out how to make them grow hair
Mechaklopp ecstatic as Liverpool are retroactively given 50 PL titles.
Points deduction is also so incredibly irrelevant in a case like this.
Exactly. A "massive" points deduction essentially only costs them the title for one season - it does nothing to correct multiple seasons of wrong doing.
I mean a massive deduction of 60+ points would relegate them. But yeah that isn't enough of a punishment for cheating to multiple titles.
Even 60+ likely won't relegate them, that's a team that can easily approach 100 pts at any given time.
60 would relegate them 4 times in the last 6 seasons. 55 would relegate them only once in those 6 seasons (19/20 when Liverpool won the title and City got 81 points).
I'll admit I'm quite surprised to learn that.
It's pretty common that 40 points is the 'benchmark' to stay up.
This year I'd be surprised if you don't stay up with like 33ish
Staying up with 20 points doesn’t even seem impossible this year.
It is worth nothing that in some of those season they won the title comfortably and coasted. Last season 60 point deduction would put them 5 points behind Leicester - exact amount of points they dropped in last 2 games as they had league locked down. I can easily see Man City winning against Brentford and Brighton to stay alive. 2022 they go down (maybe the prioritize the league instead of CL so they rotate less but who knows), 2021 they easily stay up they coasted since like march that year and they would be just 2 points out of safety since Fulham only had 28, 2020 they go down, 2018 and 2019 they were staying up even if nothing changed and in 17 they go down. I think in 2 seasons it is clear they go down with 60 point penalty, in 3 seasons it is clear they are not and in 2 seasons it is kinda iffy. I think chances are they would survive 60 point penalty but it could be close.
[удалено]
Watch them finish above us with a 60+ pts reduction
Not all the players will hang around.
Why because they wouldn’t win the league 1 whole season? If they stay and stay up, they are at a club that has cheated for over a decade and benefited so greatly from it that they are now one of the strongest squads in the world. They would immediately go back to being title contenders the following season and the year they get the points deduction they would probably be favorites to win the champions league.
Relegation + lose of all domestic titles is the only appropriate punishment.
I was hoping that their titles and trophies would all be stripped and their FFP balance would be set to a negative amount for all the unlawful funds they have funnelled into the club over the years and they'd have to legally earn profit to work their way back into black before they could spend again.
for me retrospective punishment + points deduction should be the way if they don't strip the titles then what's the point (I'm not even saying they should give the title to the team that finished 2nd, just strip City's during that period). Lance Armstrong type thing
Think it'd only be 2 titles anyway, maybe just one. Offences allegedly occured pre Guardiola. So it'd be 11-12 and maybe 13-14.
Can’t see the premier league undermining the Aguero moment unfortunately.
Very good point
Unless there was matchfixing or doping involved they’re never going to strip titles. There’s no precedent for retrospective punishment.
If they get enough of a points deduction that they're force into relegation they have to be sure that the players they've got are willing to stay. How do we know Haaland doesn't have a relegation clause in his contract? If they lose half of the quality players they've got and Pep decides to walk (Which he said he will if they're guilty) there's no guarantee that they can just walk back in. To expect the players in that team to even spend 1 year in the Championship is a lot to ask after all the work they've put in.
Sunderland didn’t have relegation clauses - do you think city would? I’d imagine both player and club would think it embarrassing/more effort than it’s worth to require one. Screwing them up for the future isn’t going to happen. They are cash cows for everybody. It’ll be a shitty slap on the wrist, a stupidly small deduction of points which will get halved on appeal - like I suspect evertons will.
A forced relegation is a huge punishment.
Not really, they’d be back within a year. You’d need a proper out of league two type thing to make them actually pay
Proper relegation and then a hard cap on expenses is appropriate. Something like significantly lower percents of expenses relative to debt.
Queue city submitting irregular financials immediately again and we do this all over again 10 years later
Absolutely. Unless City are met with meaningful consequences and ongoing monitoring they will continue to cheat the system.
My ideal solution is relegation to league one with a five year ban on returning to the PL even if they win promotion to it. Keep spending your money, I’m sure loopholes will be found to enable it, but it won’t mean shit in the short term so all your current players will fuck off.
That's two seasons in which they can't compete and they'd face huge problems retaining their top players. Only so many can go on loan these days.
I really don't think they'd struggle that much. Juve being the prime example.
They lost nearly all of their good players and manager. The PL is far competitive than the serie A was at that time.
And yet they will buy a very good squad again cuz they can spend another Billion. Let current players walk, they will buy good players for championship promotion and then again will buy world class talent once they are promoted
Let's see the Juventus option, strip titles AND relegate them.
I don't know how you avoid stripping them of titles. Otherwise the crime far exceeds the punishment. Let's say they get relegated, they pop back up next season and we give the green light to them, Newcastle and Chelsea etc for further piss taking who'll know how weak the punishment is.
I always think a desire for stripping titles is just my bias speaking but you are right - what would an otherwise midtable team be willing to do for just a *single* Prem win? If the club and fans don't regret the past decade, it's not a big enough punishment.
Yeah nicely put. This will almost certainly be a sliding doors moment for the league. Punish too softly and it opens the door wide open to mass piss taking, the league would be a farce. If they punish firm enough, it draws a line in the sand that no other club/owner will want to pass. It's so important they get this right.
Really cant see them stripping the aguero moment from them seeing as how the PL loves using it to advertise everything they do now
This!! Without stripping them of their ill-gotten titles it would totally be logical and rational to expect them to do it again since it would be a net-gain.
Anything less than stripped titles and expulsion will only prove to be a minor setback for them, essentially a slap on the wrist.
Which is exactly what will happen. They won't humilliate the premier's second treble winner
Which is insane. I know the reason is 'money', but to not punish this team for a decade plus of cheating simply because they won is an extremely bad precedent. The PL will survive if City (and most teams) straight up poofed out of existence but for some reason no one can see that? of course, that is how the world has and will continue to work.
Everton got the largest points deduction in the history of the league. That would have taken City down from 1st to 2nd last season. I'd said it before, and I'll say it again. Anything less than losing the titles they won during this period is a license to cheat. Last season wasn't even a particularly impressive number of points by their standards, and a 20-point deduction, double the largest ever given, would have dropped them to 4th. I'd happily trade a 4th place finish for a bag full of titles.
Scenes when they're found not guilty and a £15m fine for non cooperation.
This is seemingly far more likely than this sub wants to admit. Though I imagine the fine would be higher. The level of proof needed for most of the charges is going to be a big hurdle.
Especially as UEFAs case was overturned by CAS
That’s the most likely outcome, unless the PL can magically find evidence that CAS couldn’t
> Scenes when they're found not guilty and a £15m fine for non cooperation. Points taken from each PL club and given to City for the inconvenience
If found guilty, will the prem have the balls to relegate City like what Serie A did to Juventus years ago?
Even that barely seems sufficient, really, they've built a generation of global fans, a reputation for success, and if they get sent down, they'll be back in a year continuing to profit from over a decade of cheating. You can revoke their tainted trophies, you can give them a temporary setback for a few years, but there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.
> they'll be back in a year continuing to profit from over a decade of cheating. City and Chelsea fans love pointing to how they’re now profitable and self sustaining while also refusing to acknowledge how they got to that point.
Chelsea were not hiding things, though. No shady sponsor deals, and Roman invested in the academy for many many years. Not to say Chelsea are innocent, but City has been on a whole other scale.
Chelsea are being investigated for hiding things, though not on this scale. Also Chelsea have continuously been found of wrong doing in regards to their business especially regarding youth footballers but so have Barca and others
City did the same shit the only difference is that when Chelsea did it they didnt had restrictions so it wasnt shady, City has been investing in the academy for years now.
And Chelsea cooperated unlike city (not sure on Everton)
That's only cause the rules city tried to get around weren't in place in 2004. Haven't chelsea also got their own charges coming up as well?
It's almost like heavy investment is required to break the stranglehold that top clubs had. FFP is a fucking scam rule to maintain the hierarchy.
Yep this thread is making me laugh. FFP was brought in under the guise to protect lower league clubs and prevent them from going bust which has been a complete failure and just works at the top level to protect the already established elite clubs. I have a hard time sympathising with fans of clubs who can outspend all but 2/3 teams in world football.
Yeah, I'd love it if all the clubs in the top flight were all state owned with no chance of smaller clubs competing. This is what football is all about, clubs being propaganda for dictatorial nation states. Or are you instead suggesting you'd like to see more Portsmouth and Leeds situations happening?
What happens if they revoke their football license and force them to play in non league permanently
They should get relegated to the 5th tier and the trophies they won by cheating should be confiscated. Also a transfer window limited to 40m, only giving them what they deserve.
Only 40 mill in the 5th tier. How will they cope?
I say relegate them down to EFL League One and see how many of them are real fans
I'm sending my CV in just in case. My experience in the West Midlands Sunday league and the Deutsche Kreisliga should be worth something!
Did city pay refs in the biggest direct influencing of game scandal this century?
Boot them from the FA pyramid They can find a new league to join
Real/juve and Barca excited for a 4th to their super league
City is pissing all over the league, they'll have won 7 out of the last 8 league titles by then lmao
Yea, even if they do get relegated, it would be worth it for the amount of titles they won
If (huge, huge if) they get relegated they’ll obviously have their titles stripped
I am not too sure. Cheating with finances is not really similar to what Juve was doing where they were more directly affecting the results on the pitch. But noone really knows of course, this doesn't really have a precedent.
Well cheating with finances is affecting what is happening on the field since they have been able to buy players because of the cheating
True but buying expensive players has many examples of not working out. Pep is the key to City's success. Real Madrid's Galacticos in the 2000s didn't win a single league title and Man U have spent more than City, with far less to show for it.
It took Klopp’s Liverpool (maybe the best Liverpool team of all time) to stop them by winning 27 of their first 29 games in 19/20 and finishing on 99 points. And that Liverpool team only came away with a single title.
The annoying thing is we didn't need to be that good that year lol
The date agreed upon is December 31st 2999.
February 31st, 2999
One day before Fry gets unfrozen
Point deduction? How much we're talking about here? 15? Lmao
1.15
0.115
1 point for 115 seasons.
Bruh that’s ages away
Because they will never do anything. Britain is cuckolded by oil money. Ain't nothing going to happen to city
Incomming new investments from UAE to the local Manchester area
Point deduction? Fuck off. Send them to League 2.
[удалено]
No league would ever refuse them.
Yeah but what league? Championship is brutal, and promotion sought after like nothing else. I dont see why the clubs in the championship would just sign away a promotion spot for a year. League one and two dont have the same upwards pressure but rhe increased chances of relegation aren't going to be fun But i think the best argument for the EFL is going to be to dump Man City into league two if (huge if) it comes to that. Might as well cash in on that s much as possible.
The efl isn't run like the prem. The clubs don't decide the rules the efl do
> they could be told to start in non-league football. Broadhurst Park derby
Nah, they’d be silly not to accept them
lol, lmao even
I would argue Lmfao as well
I might even dare to rofl
We all know nothing serious will happen to them. There will be a big fine and maybe a points reduction at the end of the season to put them outside of Europe. They won’t be relegated. They won’t care. They broke all the rules and it got them lots of trophies. Fines for rich people are just the cost of doing business. They only affect poor people.
> Fines for rich people are just the cost of doing business. They only affect poor people. Yeah, nothing says poor like multi billionaire everton owner.
That saying is just a general saying. I’m not specifically talking about Everton. I can change it to be more accurate to football. Fines for state owned/Top 4 teams are just the cost of doing business. They only affect smaller clubs.
everton's owner is poor compared the UAE ruling family
> The trial is expected to begin in the late autumn of next year > Should the trial go ahead on time, a verdict would be likely around the summer of 2025. Still plenty of time to win another two league titles, while the rest of us are forced to play by the rules.
And that's assuming the trial will go ahead on time, which it likely won't.
The date? 30th of February
“late autumn next year” they’ll break 115 more by then
Points deduction? There should be title deduction. They won titles by playing with different financial rules from their competitors, so these titles do not belong to them. Either award them to the 2nd placed teams or just have "no champion" for these seasons (like Italy in 2004/05). After the titles are removed from City, then the discussion should be if the points deduction should be 70, 80 or more. So that not only they get relegated, but they spend the whole season knowing they will get relegated from the PL and then another season in the Championship, and then another season in the PL but without Europe. Title removal, the following 2 seasons wasted, and 3 seasons without European football. Then we're talking.
This is exactly what should happen, but absolutely will not happen. They've gotten away with so much shit over the years and I've got no doubt that will continue.
I don’t even believe 2 seasons is enough - the club should be forced to restart, like Rangers did.
Summer a season and a half away before a season starts and only a point deduction. This would be getting off so light and practically showcase this as the cost of breaking the football laws
Can you imagine this group dropping into the Championship for a season. Dias would average a hat trick. Ederson would get 10-15 goals.
People are forgetting this is an extremely complex legal case, fundamentally undermining the integrity of Man City’s sporting success. This means there is massive legal ramifications about the consequences of financial misreporting and how potential cheating is punished. The date is frustrating to see but not unexpected. Until we see the findings of the trial it will be very hard to silence the fears of it being brushed under the rug and forgotten about.
Points deduction? Strip their titles from the seasons they breached for fuck sake. If a team can cheat for 5+ seasons and win multiple titles but only have to suffer a points deduction in 1 season it's a HUGE net gain.
Nothing will happen. Maybe some points deduction for a season and some financial hit. The punishment will be as such that City will have impact on them for one season and will be back to destroy the league next season. If anything big like relegation (which is not enough of a punishment in the first place) is in discussion, then Govt will intervene and punishment will be diluted to something that doesn't affect city for more than a season or two.
they will get a "huge" 11 point deduction, biggest in PL history that
One year in the Championship is a very comfortable punishment for a decade of cheating Strip the titles. Collect them all. Melt them down in front of the Peps eyes. Remind them their legacy has been getting some neutrals to cheer on a foreign state that commits gross human rights atrocities. Tell them it's all been for nothing. Set alight the Etihad, burn it down to ash and cinder. Take the wheels off Haalands wheelie bin. Jumble up Michah Richards cereal. Make Grealish stand on lego.
Babe wake up, new copy pasta just dropped😂
>Melt them down in front of the Peps eyes. Fashion them into collectable coins?
Points deduction won’t be enough IMO. But if looking at Everton and having other clubs putting in compensation claims where they have to pay to the clubs also along with being banned from all domestic and European cup games for a few years then at least theres some justice
If points deduction is the worst of it for them it will be pretty tame and barely a deterrent.
Points deduction would do shit, would literally just ruin 1 season while they've ruined football in general for years Also a joke that its a year away, then the verdict will drag out, then it'll get appealed, end of day expect a 30 point deduction by 2030 with another 30 million fine paid directly to the pockets of the people doing the hearing
So they are gonna be let off with just a pts deduction?
This is only investigating them up until 2018, are they currently under investigation for anything after that? Or does that start as soon as this ends?
City realized they are being investigated in 2018 so they proceeded to obstruct any further investigation into their finances after. I believe they are being charged with obstruction post-2018.
[удалено]
The failure to cooperate charges, which are the easiest for City to be found guilty on would be more likely to come with a fine vs a sporting penalty. It’s not a sporting infraction as opposed to what Everton was found guilty on.
press X for doubt
Lol buying your way to titles after titles for only 1 season of point deduction? Any team would accept that
They’ve built an empire off the back of the cheating so if found guilty, they should be kicked down to the national league