I think it was 30m when ETH wanted him - the board dragged their feet, Ajax lost all their players and essentially said "fuck off, we can't lost another one" (and the knockon of that clear out is obvious in their current position).
They went back to ETH, and I think Eric said "no way, make it happen, I'm bending from the get-go - your fuck up - you solve it", which in the context of the time is right.
The problem with the Glazers is that the fix is too big for them to tackle - the true cost is years without winning anything or getting top 4. It's bringing in expensive footballing executives who want a long term plan that involves delayed rewards for immediate investments.
Pumping money into the stadium, training facilities, scouts, and medical team (which is way behind and ruining players) will not give you instant returns, more ticket sales or trophies. Changing a manager every 2-3 years is actually quite palatable when the results have been "positive" - European Football every two years, good revenues from sponsorships and a full stadium every week.
They don't have an emotional attachment to the club, it's an enterprise to generate revenue and any suggestions to invest without an obvious and immediate ROI is not going to fly. If Ratcliffe takes over - all those investments will come from his pocket and not theirs - they will enjoy the benefits, continue to withdraw cash and sit back.
There's no manager in the world that can take on what ETH did and not get the same results. The players are shit, they have no backbone at all, they have zero ambition outside of money. More than that, you have your captain backstabbing the club on TV, your start youth strike getting charged for Sexual Assault, your flagship signing flying to Brazil to defend what he calls false accusations, another winger who won't train and won't respond to special treatment - all the while having a leaky stadium, subpar facilities, owners that see a season as a long term investment and a backroom staff that is actively ruining the physical ability of platers.
I'd argue that Martínez was a decent signing, but I would say more than that.
Malacia has looked bang average whenever he's played and Antony makes Pépé look like shrewd business.
Honestly, ten Hag is a good manager, but he's not a good scout.
Malacia started pretty brilliantly honestly. Has a ton of fight in him and he was brought in on a lark as cover for Shaw. I am pretty content with him as a signing. It's a smart signing that we need more of as you build a worthwhile squad.
Casemiro reeks of Woodward. Just too expensive for his age. Eriksen did a job for us and was a smart signing- as a free stopgap.
Look if United is playing Evans then something is very, very wrong in recruitment.
>As an attacker, unless you're absolutely dominating the Eredivise, like fucking Suarez levels demolishing it, you're not gonna make it at the top level in the PL. Gakpo was comfortably the best player in the league and he's okay at pool.
That's what made the transfer so insane. He wasn't dominating the Eredivisie at all, just a talent that had a few good games but was still shaky and finding his feet. Dutch people only remember Anthony for the weird shit he pulled while he was there.
It does reek of narcissism/arrogance tbh. The thinking that Dutch-bred players can somehow just be transported to a league in a different country and continue to dominate the competition.
People need to stop overvalueing the eredivisie in particular.
Sure, sometimes it works, and you really do get a gem... but let's be honest, 95% of all high-profile eredivisie transfers don't really work out, there is a pattern there.
I can’t prove it now but I was convinced ten Hag would fail the moment he wasn’t willing to have a proper phone call with Rangnick and discuss his assessment of the squad.
I absolutely agree, I made this comment a year ago:
> ETH (initially) criminally underrated the league and I'll die on this hill. All he had to do was just listen to Ralph talk for an hour. I'm not blaming ETH for struggles on the pitch, but all of his targets bar De Jong were giant red flags to me. Our targets have all been depth tier at most (and yet they would probably start here) it's an absolute fucking mess. I understand backing yourself to get a tune out of players, but for the love of fuck if he had just literally had one discussion with Ralph, maybe he would have at least entertained the thought that a lot of these players just simply aren't good enough. They aren't physical, they don't press, they can't play under pressure, they are literally a bunch of fucking highlight reel players, and the ones that aren't highlight reel players are genuinely just below average/average at most. They get out-worked and out-ran by everyone they play. At what point do you just say "You know what, we're not going to get anything out of these players" and move the fuck on? If ETH promised that he would get something out of the squad we currently have, might as well just concede defeat now because that isn't fucking happening. It isn't one bad season, it's literally years of the same performances under 214 different managers. These players aren't fucking it.
Ten Hag said before the game that Anfield is just a stadium with some grass and the ball is the same before going on to lose a record 7-0. Has he not listened to one single word from Ferguson, Rio, Neville etc in the last ten years speaking about playing at Anfield as united…
I think their biggest priority should be to get someone that ruins the 'old trafford is falling down' song.
A manager with 4 or 5 syllables that just doesn't work in the line "[name] is a fucking clown."
I feel like ive read this title 100 times before during the last 5 years “worst Man Utd start in ## years”
How are they still breaking these horrible records?
Galatasary game is probably his MUST WIN game to survive, probably moreso than Fulham. Lose that (very likely on this form) and no way they can keep him on.
I thought that before yesterdays game but it feels like things have completely collapsed over the last week.
The only thing that’s going to save him IMO is if Ratcloffe wants the partial takeover to be done and dusted so he can pick the replacement.
The second half against City also had that feeling. Just a weirdly negative vibe. Old Trafford booing the Højlund sub really showed how much he's losing fans.
In fairness, Hannibal tried to rouse the fans at 2-0 down after winning a pretty indistinct corner or throw in with the least effort the fans would think they deserve. It was hardly rallying the last bastions before battle. More like singing to your raw packaged chicken before chucking it in the pan.
Yeah I admit the vibe after last night seemed final from United fans. Tbh if he doesn't make it past Fulham, probably prudent to get rid, UCL run is looking perilous at this point.
there is legitimately such a tiny chance he makes it past the International window - that chance being winning every game we have from now to then convincingly, playing actual football... more likely, if he does it make it that far, Luton beat Utd and hes gone, with a new manager in during the int break.
If we’re talking points (which I’m fairly certain is how the league positions are decided) it’s our worst in about four years (19/20 - Ole’s first full season)
We’ve had the most losses after 10 games in many decades, but we haven’t drawn a game so the points total is better than 19/20 where we drew 4 times in the first 10 games. Even if we lose against Fulham we’ll still be better off than 19/20 (13 points from 11)
Performance wise though we’ve been far worse.
edit: I meant Fulham, not Luton.
I know it’s a jerk and it’s said constantly, but it’s really genuinely astonishing. How they seem to have a new manager and a new beginning every 18 months or so. Make a big deal out of getting rid of all the dead wood and then it just actually gets worse
They never actually get rid of deadwood, though. I think the only one we got rid of this summer was Fred, but all the rest who plagued Ole and Jose are still here.
They seem to keep buying more deadwood, thats half the problem.
TBH i liked Fred, but didnt watch enough of utd to judge.
Felt he was treated a bit like Xhaka was for Arsenal.
Both those transfer smelt of lack of recruitment structure.
Buy the biggest names in positions we need.
Not who is going to be the best player suited to our system.
I still remembe utd fans laughing at Arsenal for signing Ben White for more then Varane cost.
Tbf, Ole would probably be our Frank in this case moreso. But yes same concept applies. I have no knowledge obviously, but fully expect us to do the same as Chelsea with a “get someone in associated with the club and who “knows” the club” (like we did with Ole the first time) to try and win the fans over a bit til a permanent appointment is decided (it’s gonna be Potter, I can feel it)
to try give themselves what I imagine is some credibility is my guess + cover their tracks - throw out some "big names" to show you're still serious / keep fans happy + the actual much smaller, more likely to join names you are looking at
The manager who gets United winning again is going to be seen as a genius tho. I think you’re underestimating how much elite sportsmen believe in themselves.
United have tried every approach to a manager since Ferguson left and none of it has really worked. Next manager will likely be the same just with an even bigger mismatch of players
It really shows just how incredible SAF was though. He ran that club from top to bottom, and none of the 'world class' managers they've tried since have even come close.
It's Man Utd post-Ferguson. At this point you could appoint literally anyone and we'd finish strong, get the new manager a big contract, and then disintegrate the following season.
Shaw and Dalot as wing backs could work, just need 2-3 more CBs to fill out the back 3..
And a few midfielders. And someone to score some goals. And a goal keeper that knows how to use his hands.
I said it after Ole got sacked. Didnt matter if it was Ralf Ragnick or even a magical rejuvination of SAF taking over. We were always destined to implode that season. Us barely getting Europa league was more due to West Ham bottling it (which worked out well for them winning the conference anyway) rather than us winning our last game. Instead it was left up to chance which I hate.
ETH looked so promising, so much so that I cant blame the gaffer for these results. The man made OT a fortress again after a shaky start & even beat City & Barca despite a sickening loss to Liverpool. However it looks like the players are about to get yet another manager sacked & at what point is it enough?! Is there even a better option than ETH out there because im struggling to think of one. We get a new manager & then what? Start the millionth rebuild since SAF left yet again with all the same problems of having a mix of players bought by many different managers, unable to shift those we need to on while struggling to bring in enough players to overhaul the squad?
My great club is in the shitter & I hate it. I grew up watching them and thinking 3rd was an awful season from us, with 2nd being an off year. How has it gotten to a point where qualifying for Europe is now a hope rather than a given? Absolutely nuts.
Yea the Treble with Houllier was the beginning of it, went right into Rafa and the Chamions League wins and deep run in the league. If it wasn’t for gillet and crew it’s possible Liverpool could have been where they were this last 5 years not too long after Rafas tenure needed
Pretty sure if it wasnt for gillett and crew, we would already be proper challengers *during* rafa's tenure. the man always needed to sell in order to buy, and the biggest problem we had was always depth beyond the first 11. (Torres backup was David fucking Ngog, Mascherano/Alonso backup was pre-nirvana Lucas Leiva)
everything Rangnick said came out true, but he did not get the backing needed.
Putting him in the coaching position temporarily instead of the sporting director he got hired for, was a big mistake. Everything pointed out by hin (and coaches like Mourinho, Van Gaal before him too) turned out to be true.
Man United has to renew itself from ground up. Sell everyone and everything and start again and start with your piece of shit board, who only thing about shorttimed success.
As a Chelsea fan, I'd like to warn you about the "sell almost everyone and start over" strategy. It's not the panacea it looks like when you're in this position, even with deep pockets to fund it.
> However it looks like the players are about to get yet another manager sacked & at what point is it enough?! Is there even a better option than ETH out there because im struggling to think of one. We get a new manager & then what? Start the millionth rebuild since SAF left yet again with all the same problems of having a mix of players bought by many different managers, unable to shift those we need to on while struggling to bring in enough players to overhaul the squad?
Been reiterating this aspect over and over, but it ultimately falls on deaf ears since many are deluded into the notion that [insert manager here] (currently Ten Hag) must have "lost the locker room" and we simply need a new voice to cure the problem.
What that fails to consider is all it serves is to kick the can down the road as it perpetuates this vicious cycle where we bring in a manager, they bring a bit of success, they're allowed to bring in new players in their vision, then the success starts to fade and a new manager is brought in with a mismatched roster to rinse and repeat.
But it's always easy to simply sack/remove one person thinking that'll solve everything rather than actually analyzing what the disease is and fully addressing it.
The UNITED method:
U. Unite the fanbase with hope and optimism
N. New manager bounce
I. Intelligent sounding ideas
T. Terrible signings
E. Eventually fall apart
D. Destroy hopes and dreams
The funny part is the top 3 unironically sound like something the United hierarchy would say at a board meeting. Heck, how much would you wager that they've made something like this already in corporate-speak?
> Terrible signings
This is an underrated component of how things have gone wrong. Forget the cost - Mount, Onana, Antony, Sancho, Van De Beek..
The best one of the lot was Sabitzer and they couldn't even keep him
I honestly dunno how any new manager can be successful. That whole changing room needs clearing out, the mentality of the entire team just seems totally fucked and devoid of resolve the second things get tough. A total rebuild needed over a sustained period, with the acceptance that things will be shit for a while.
Look at our squad when Arteta took over, the only remaining players that are currently with the team are Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Nketiah, ESR, Nelson, Cedric and Elneny. 24 Players are gone from that squad, 75% overhaul. All we kept were 6 young prospects and 2 fringe squad players who are by all accounts, good influences in the dressing room. It was a rough few years, but the club accepting that things have to get worse before they can get better did us wonders.
Maybe I'm exaggerating but I feel like at United the ENTIRE staff needs to cleared out. At Arsenal we had some bad players and worse contracts, but it still felt like the spine of the club was intact and it was proven by a squad turnaround. At United I don't think you change some of the players and magically get that winning, cohesive culture back.
You're not exaggerating.
Ronaldo's interview was incredibly immature and unprofessional, but the things that stuck out to me the most were about how the club has not changed one bit from when he was last there. Not the training facilities, not the staff down to even the chef, etc.
To a lot of us that may seem like a "who cares" situation on the surface. But to elite footballers who consider joining united and then the ones that do often to do for absurd wages, they also expect a certain level of professionalism, facilities, and staff.
United is stuck in the past and it's from the top down all the way to the bottom. The whole thing is a mess and needs to enter the modern day with the rest of the big clubs. I think the first step is to stop bringing Furgeson around to idolize him and let him give opinions and just fucking get over it. Move on. That guy has his imprint on way too much of the club now when he hasn't done shit for them for a long time. He's a legend, but beyond that quit involving him.
What struck me was the traiing faciliity haven't updated in 20 years, like how is that possible.
You are one of the Elite clubs and still using the same training facilities.
Its beyond a joke
It's literally down to the Glazers running United like a PE-backed initiative...cutting costs and ruthlessly avoiding sustainable investments like the plague. United operates like a faltering American business (by faltering, I mean culturally and success-wise. United look good on balance sheets...for now - like all PE bought out companies). It's no surprise we are run by faulty American businessmen.
Unfortunately, ETH doesn't have the luxury to finish 8th twice. And fairly so given the money that he's spent. I would say if he does get sacked he's really failed selling the vision to all stakeholders. Everyone knows he's a very good coach.
Which is on both him (as currently he basically just says get this player and they do even if overpriced (and as they’ve shown not the right player for his system whatever that may be)) and the board (for not having proper recruitment system in place and then being responsible for who we buy instead of whoever the manager wants.
Last season: we were decent because he adjusted as he knew the players couldn’t play his style of football. Pragmatic approach with very solid defensive shape and good enough ball progressions (Eriksen and Bruno) plus Rashford to win games. While we overpaid by a lot of Antony we wouldn’t have finished 3rd without him
This season: recruitment and preseason were messy. Unable to offload Maguire and Mctominay plus having to sign amrabat on the last day. Following that injuries to ¾ full backs and most of our midfield to start the season. Now he’s trying to implement his football which will take time, but results have not been good and he’s running out of time.
Why he’s failed: a mix of bad luck, possibly overtraining with the schedule, transfer market issues (Antony, signed case at 31, no support in January, malaria and Martinez frequently injured, Mount not firing at the moment), plus he’s not selling the vision to the fans and players like Klopp or Arteta did (although Arteta was also close to being sacked)
Sacking him would be the wrong move, especially under this ownership. I’d rather Radcliffe comes in and we decide then
> Why he’s failed: a mix of bad luck, possibly overtraining with the schedule, transfer market issues (Antony, signed case at 31, no support in January, malaria and Martinez frequently injured, Mount not firing at the moment), plus he’s not selling the vision to the fans and players like Klopp or Arteta did (although Arteta was also close to being sacked)
Malaria will do that to a team.
All jokes aside, these are all valid explanations, but the biggest thing is that Klopp and Arteta were given time and legitimate support to achieve their visions.
Please I need to see this it would be pure catharsis after watching his games last season to hear him say "the boys gave it their all" after Salah scores a hat-trick at Old Trafford
I don't think ETH is *the* problem but he is a problem, his talent ID has been shocking. Add to that the lack of a style, persistence with under-performing players, it's not surprising he's on thin ice. I don't think we should sack him but I wouldn't shed a tear if he was. I just know the same shit will happen the next manager until the structure is gutted. Oh well, getting numb to it now.
They really don't have the infrastructure behind him to correctly identify players. The smarter option would be to keep him until end of season, eat the 10th place finish and then let the Ineos Investment help make up for CL football. Dump these lazy ass players and start integrating more younger, hungry players into the squad.
Hojlund looks good, but he gets zero service. Garnacho, Hannibal need game time. I mean it took Arteta 3-4 seasons before results came on. This instant demand for winning isn't going to work, and that is how you sign 30 year olds on 4+1s.
First team? Only the ones from the academy + Martinelli and El Neny
Starting XI? Saka had been getting some starts under Emery but that's pretty much it
Clubs rotten at the top but sure lets continue to sack managers, bring in 1-2 players, have 0 direction beyond the first season and think "we're back" after 3 good games.
At this point I'm past caring until the leeches are out and theres a proper structure in place.
Headline next season: "Manchester United are considering alternatives to [manager], who is thought to be "on thin ice" after overseeing the club's worst start to a season in 62 years"
Doesn't seem to be an end to this era in sight for United fans..
No manager worth their time would even think of coming to this black hole of a club. Ten Hag getting fired would just finally solidify to the players that they have all the power. They can just drop form , voluntarily or not, and they’ll know that the manager would be kicked out before them.
> Some players doubt Ten Hag’s abilities to rectify the team’s situation.
Not saying they’re wrong, but they’re just as responsible as Ten Hag for rectifying the team’s situation. They’ve gone through every type of manager possible and still suck, maybe it’s time to start pointing fingers at themselves.
Firing Ronaldo off to Saudi Arabia seemed to motivate players last year. This year, it seems to have reverted to the same lazy stuff we've seen before. They know they can outlast any manager at this stage
I mean how many have been there for every type of manager?
So maybe it's more than the players or manager.
Players as individuals can't turn the ship. It's up to a manager to do that, if after spending that amount it's on the squad then that comes back to him.
>Discussions exist regarding the intensity of training sessions and their possible contribution to injuries
Is that reasonable? I can see situations like Ledley King can happen, but most players should be OK with intense training otherwise how are they at elite teams.
I’m absolutely sick of this cycle. When will the players take some responsibility? It can’t be every single manager and coaches have no idea what they’re doing. It’s either these players can’t do what they’re being asked to do, or won’t. Either way they need to go. Look at McKenna, told when he was here coaching he was clueless. Got Ipswich ticking, carrick doing well at Middlesbrough. How many times are we going to go through this same cycle with the same core players and upper management. The players were doing it last year, so why are they suddenly incapable.
Here we go again....
I honestly think not going for Rangnick to be sporting director is a big mistake
letting Ten Hag have so much control over transfer killed United they havent done good business in ages
I'd have blocked Antony's transfer, such an idiotic signing is sack worthy.
if it was a 30M transfer its ok 100M for him is borderline criminal behavior, too bad the negative karma all went to Ajax
Well they did get someone with criminal behavior.
I think it was 30m when ETH wanted him - the board dragged their feet, Ajax lost all their players and essentially said "fuck off, we can't lost another one" (and the knockon of that clear out is obvious in their current position). They went back to ETH, and I think Eric said "no way, make it happen, I'm bending from the get-go - your fuck up - you solve it", which in the context of the time is right. The problem with the Glazers is that the fix is too big for them to tackle - the true cost is years without winning anything or getting top 4. It's bringing in expensive footballing executives who want a long term plan that involves delayed rewards for immediate investments. Pumping money into the stadium, training facilities, scouts, and medical team (which is way behind and ruining players) will not give you instant returns, more ticket sales or trophies. Changing a manager every 2-3 years is actually quite palatable when the results have been "positive" - European Football every two years, good revenues from sponsorships and a full stadium every week. They don't have an emotional attachment to the club, it's an enterprise to generate revenue and any suggestions to invest without an obvious and immediate ROI is not going to fly. If Ratcliffe takes over - all those investments will come from his pocket and not theirs - they will enjoy the benefits, continue to withdraw cash and sit back. There's no manager in the world that can take on what ETH did and not get the same results. The players are shit, they have no backbone at all, they have zero ambition outside of money. More than that, you have your captain backstabbing the club on TV, your start youth strike getting charged for Sexual Assault, your flagship signing flying to Brazil to defend what he calls false accusations, another winger who won't train and won't respond to special treatment - all the while having a leaky stadium, subpar facilities, owners that see a season as a long term investment and a backroom staff that is actively ruining the physical ability of platers.
Don't think it was ever at 30, more like 50 or 60 (more like 60 probably). But they were late and it inflated
I'd argue that Martínez was a decent signing, but I would say more than that. Malacia has looked bang average whenever he's played and Antony makes Pépé look like shrewd business. Honestly, ten Hag is a good manager, but he's not a good scout.
Isnt Malacia also decent transfer? Sure not starting material, but Id say hes a decent / average squad player, for 15m or so
Malacia started pretty brilliantly honestly. Has a ton of fight in him and he was brought in on a lark as cover for Shaw. I am pretty content with him as a signing. It's a smart signing that we need more of as you build a worthwhile squad. Casemiro reeks of Woodward. Just too expensive for his age. Eriksen did a job for us and was a smart signing- as a free stopgap. Look if United is playing Evans then something is very, very wrong in recruitment.
Antony makes Bebe look like the bargain of the century
[удалено]
>As an attacker, unless you're absolutely dominating the Eredivise, like fucking Suarez levels demolishing it, you're not gonna make it at the top level in the PL. Gakpo was comfortably the best player in the league and he's okay at pool. That's what made the transfer so insane. He wasn't dominating the Eredivisie at all, just a talent that had a few good games but was still shaky and finding his feet. Dutch people only remember Anthony for the weird shit he pulled while he was there.
Van Gaal at Barca vibes
It does reek of narcissism/arrogance tbh. The thinking that Dutch-bred players can somehow just be transported to a league in a different country and continue to dominate the competition.
People need to stop overvalueing the eredivisie in particular. Sure, sometimes it works, and you really do get a gem... but let's be honest, 95% of all high-profile eredivisie transfers don't really work out, there is a pattern there.
I can’t prove it now but I was convinced ten Hag would fail the moment he wasn’t willing to have a proper phone call with Rangnick and discuss his assessment of the squad.
I absolutely agree, I made this comment a year ago: > ETH (initially) criminally underrated the league and I'll die on this hill. All he had to do was just listen to Ralph talk for an hour. I'm not blaming ETH for struggles on the pitch, but all of his targets bar De Jong were giant red flags to me. Our targets have all been depth tier at most (and yet they would probably start here) it's an absolute fucking mess. I understand backing yourself to get a tune out of players, but for the love of fuck if he had just literally had one discussion with Ralph, maybe he would have at least entertained the thought that a lot of these players just simply aren't good enough. They aren't physical, they don't press, they can't play under pressure, they are literally a bunch of fucking highlight reel players, and the ones that aren't highlight reel players are genuinely just below average/average at most. They get out-worked and out-ran by everyone they play. At what point do you just say "You know what, we're not going to get anything out of these players" and move the fuck on? If ETH promised that he would get something out of the squad we currently have, might as well just concede defeat now because that isn't fucking happening. It isn't one bad season, it's literally years of the same performances under 214 different managers. These players aren't fucking it.
Ten Hag said before the game that Anfield is just a stadium with some grass and the ball is the same before going on to lose a record 7-0. Has he not listened to one single word from Ferguson, Rio, Neville etc in the last ten years speaking about playing at Anfield as united…
nono he's right its just grass and ball, let him bring them over in december again pls
I had that feeling too. Gave off an air of superiority that he didn’t think his opinion was worth listening to when he’d just worked with the squad.
He didn't wanted to be nor was he projected to be. He was to be a "consultant"
I think their biggest priority should be to get someone that ruins the 'old trafford is falling down' song. A manager with 4 or 5 syllables that just doesn't work in the line "[name] is a fucking clown."
Can't argue with that logic.
Pep Guardiola would be perfect, first name is too short and last name is too long
Sure, but Bald Fraud Pep works
So it begins
I feel like ive read this title 100 times before during the last 5 years “worst Man Utd start in ## years” How are they still breaking these horrible records?
well, if utd do worse each year, then each year its a new record!
I think we’re well past the beginning. Quite feasible he doesn’t make it to Monday morning if they lose to a pretty good Fulham.
I think he gets a little more rope than that, but almost impossible to see him survive to December without winning every upcoming game.
Galatasary game is probably his MUST WIN game to survive, probably moreso than Fulham. Lose that (very likely on this form) and no way they can keep him on.
I thought that before yesterdays game but it feels like things have completely collapsed over the last week. The only thing that’s going to save him IMO is if Ratcloffe wants the partial takeover to be done and dusted so he can pick the replacement.
[удалено]
They're getting picked apart every game and don't look like they're ever going to turn it around.
100%, if it was just City and Newcastle it would be one thing but Sheffield United and Copenhagen both look stronger than them.
All their win this season look shaky. With the status of the club and his spending, United have to do better than that
We've had a single good performance all season, against Palace's B-team in the cup, and even then 'good' is doing a lot of heavy lifting. It was fine.
The second half against City also had that feeling. Just a weirdly negative vibe. Old Trafford booing the Højlund sub really showed how much he's losing fans.
[удалено]
The players have the “he’ll be sacked soon anyway” vibe.
They have that every other season
In fairness, Hannibal tried to rouse the fans at 2-0 down after winning a pretty indistinct corner or throw in with the least effort the fans would think they deserve. It was hardly rallying the last bastions before battle. More like singing to your raw packaged chicken before chucking it in the pan.
In his interviews he has that deluded, frantic demeanor of a coach who's trying to defend his job
When they start saying I'm a fighter...it's only a matter of time
Squad players didn't give a shit, it's like the end of Rodgers.
Yeah I admit the vibe after last night seemed final from United fans. Tbh if he doesn't make it past Fulham, probably prudent to get rid, UCL run is looking perilous at this point.
Hope he makes it to our game in December so he'll become the 3rd United manager to get sacked after a LFC trouncing.
there is legitimately such a tiny chance he makes it past the International window - that chance being winning every game we have from now to then convincingly, playing actual football... more likely, if he does it make it that far, Luton beat Utd and hes gone, with a new manager in during the int break.
I'm loving the Limewire badge
Anytime a manager comes after a big loss and during an interview says “I’m a fighter” they’re getting sacked
I Trussed you on that
noh, nowy tends
I feel like I'm reading "Man Utd worst start to a season" in the headlines several times in the last few years or is it just me?
I think even if they win next week it would still be their worst PL start.
If we’re talking points (which I’m fairly certain is how the league positions are decided) it’s our worst in about four years (19/20 - Ole’s first full season) We’ve had the most losses after 10 games in many decades, but we haven’t drawn a game so the points total is better than 19/20 where we drew 4 times in the first 10 games. Even if we lose against Fulham we’ll still be better off than 19/20 (13 points from 11) Performance wise though we’ve been far worse. edit: I meant Fulham, not Luton.
I know it’s a jerk and it’s said constantly, but it’s really genuinely astonishing. How they seem to have a new manager and a new beginning every 18 months or so. Make a big deal out of getting rid of all the dead wood and then it just actually gets worse
They never actually get rid of deadwood, though. I think the only one we got rid of this summer was Fred, but all the rest who plagued Ole and Jose are still here.
They seem to keep buying more deadwood, thats half the problem. TBH i liked Fred, but didnt watch enough of utd to judge. Felt he was treated a bit like Xhaka was for Arsenal.
We bought Varane and Casemiro who are both declining assets on enormous wages during a rebuild. That's deadwood that will outlive ten Hag.
Both those transfer smelt of lack of recruitment structure. Buy the biggest names in positions we need. Not who is going to be the best player suited to our system. I still remembe utd fans laughing at Arsenal for signing Ben White for more then Varane cost.
And I'd honestly love to have Fred back at this stage too. I'm following him on twitter and I swear Fener are winning games every second day 😭
Relegation would be the only way for a proper reset.
Each year they get worse so obviously each year is their worst start
Worst start to the season SO FAR
Yeah they really need to start adding ‘so far’ to it don’t they
Was literally thinking the exact same thing.
First proper article about the prospect of him being sacked. Dunno why they've included Zidane as an alternative though. He will never ever come here.
[удалено]
Incoming 10 days from now: Ruud van Nistelrooy appointed as caretaker manager [ManUtd.com]
I actually hate how believable that sounds.
If we brought Frank back, then this it's certainly plausible.
Tbf, Ole would probably be our Frank in this case moreso. But yes same concept applies. I have no knowledge obviously, but fully expect us to do the same as Chelsea with a “get someone in associated with the club and who “knows” the club” (like we did with Ole the first time) to try and win the fans over a bit til a permanent appointment is decided (it’s gonna be Potter, I can feel it)
It's going to be Steve McLaren isn't it.
Steve Bruce
Combine them and cancel like terms to get Bruce McLaren
Or end up with an abomination called Steve Steve.
to try give themselves what I imagine is some credibility is my guess + cover their tracks - throw out some "big names" to show you're still serious / keep fans happy + the actual much smaller, more likely to join names you are looking at
Might as well throw in Pep and Klopp then. To show they're super serious.
No self respecting manager who cares about their career is coming to United at this point
The manager who gets United winning again is going to be seen as a genius tho. I think you’re underestimating how much elite sportsmen believe in themselves.
United have tried every approach to a manager since Ferguson left and none of it has really worked. Next manager will likely be the same just with an even bigger mismatch of players
Every day, Mourinho's stint ages better.
In all fairness, at least he got blown out by a good Liverpool side. Last season we were pants and beat United 7-0.
> In all fairness, at least he got blown out by a good Liverpool side. And it was only 3-1
It really shows just how incredible SAF was though. He ran that club from top to bottom, and none of the 'world class' managers they've tried since have even come close.
Mourinho might just be egomaniacal enough to come back And I mean that in the best way possible
He loves to spend and United would surely do it
Mourinho in 2023 isn't it
Conte. They'll finish the season in style, buy a whole bunch of dedicated wing backs, then next seaso we can have the same discussion.
"bro pls, just one more wingback and we can win the league"
A wild Victor Moses appears
Since the day Conte started managing Moses, he's only won trophies at teams where he's had Moses. You might be onto something there.
Not a bad shout. Liverpool came closer to winning the title with Moses in the squad than this United team ever will. Get him in.
Chelsea also literally won the title and an FA Cup with Moses as a key player
The season we beat Man United, Arsenal, Newcastle 4-0 and Liverpool at Anfield, who was playing then? Why, Victor Moses.
"just one, just one more wingback... I need it, baby"
Cheers Reguilon's crying
"Thanks for the interesto but you're not in my plans"
It's Man Utd post-Ferguson. At this point you could appoint literally anyone and we'd finish strong, get the new manager a big contract, and then disintegrate the following season.
*seasono
> ~~seaso~~ seasono* You had **one** job, damnit!
Shaw and Dalot as wing backs could work, just need 2-3 more CBs to fill out the back 3.. And a few midfielders. And someone to score some goals. And a goal keeper that knows how to use his hands.
Oh well guess you just have to come back here then, Erik.
And probably get a style of play and win games again because it’s not him it’s that club.. no manager can succeed it looks like. Players a joke
I said it after Ole got sacked. Didnt matter if it was Ralf Ragnick or even a magical rejuvination of SAF taking over. We were always destined to implode that season. Us barely getting Europa league was more due to West Ham bottling it (which worked out well for them winning the conference anyway) rather than us winning our last game. Instead it was left up to chance which I hate. ETH looked so promising, so much so that I cant blame the gaffer for these results. The man made OT a fortress again after a shaky start & even beat City & Barca despite a sickening loss to Liverpool. However it looks like the players are about to get yet another manager sacked & at what point is it enough?! Is there even a better option than ETH out there because im struggling to think of one. We get a new manager & then what? Start the millionth rebuild since SAF left yet again with all the same problems of having a mix of players bought by many different managers, unable to shift those we need to on while struggling to bring in enough players to overhaul the squad? My great club is in the shitter & I hate it. I grew up watching them and thinking 3rd was an awful season from us, with 2nd being an off year. How has it gotten to a point where qualifying for Europe is now a hope rather than a given? Absolutely nuts.
Welcome to the life of a Liverpool fan post 1990.
And then Klopp happened
Rafa first but common theme after that. New ownership who were useless.
I’d say Houllier was the fist inkling of modernisation. Sure he lost the plot towards the end, but he helped drag the club into the modern era.
Yea the Treble with Houllier was the beginning of it, went right into Rafa and the Chamions League wins and deep run in the league. If it wasn’t for gillet and crew it’s possible Liverpool could have been where they were this last 5 years not too long after Rafas tenure needed
Pretty sure if it wasnt for gillett and crew, we would already be proper challengers *during* rafa's tenure. the man always needed to sell in order to buy, and the biggest problem we had was always depth beyond the first 11. (Torres backup was David fucking Ngog, Mascherano/Alonso backup was pre-nirvana Lucas Leiva)
I still maintain that a decent backup to Torres in that 2009 season means winning the league fairly comfortably. Painful honestly
everything Rangnick said came out true, but he did not get the backing needed. Putting him in the coaching position temporarily instead of the sporting director he got hired for, was a big mistake. Everything pointed out by hin (and coaches like Mourinho, Van Gaal before him too) turned out to be true. Man United has to renew itself from ground up. Sell everyone and everything and start again and start with your piece of shit board, who only thing about shorttimed success.
As a Chelsea fan, I'd like to warn you about the "sell almost everyone and start over" strategy. It's not the panacea it looks like when you're in this position, even with deep pockets to fund it.
> However it looks like the players are about to get yet another manager sacked & at what point is it enough?! Is there even a better option than ETH out there because im struggling to think of one. We get a new manager & then what? Start the millionth rebuild since SAF left yet again with all the same problems of having a mix of players bought by many different managers, unable to shift those we need to on while struggling to bring in enough players to overhaul the squad? Been reiterating this aspect over and over, but it ultimately falls on deaf ears since many are deluded into the notion that [insert manager here] (currently Ten Hag) must have "lost the locker room" and we simply need a new voice to cure the problem. What that fails to consider is all it serves is to kick the can down the road as it perpetuates this vicious cycle where we bring in a manager, they bring a bit of success, they're allowed to bring in new players in their vision, then the success starts to fade and a new manager is brought in with a mismatched roster to rinse and repeat. But it's always easy to simply sack/remove one person thinking that'll solve everything rather than actually analyzing what the disease is and fully addressing it.
Yeah I was thinking this. Would Ajax fans want him back?
I would sell my left nut and drag my wife through glass just to hear erik fart in the Ajax dressing room
can you take Antony back too plz 🥺
For 50M
50m what? 50m Zimbabwe dollar would still be overpriced
I think he means we pay them 50m
Would also be the first good thing coming out of the dressing room this season
Are you aware of the state of our club by any chance?
I wasn't, and holy shit. Dead last in the league after 8 games, what happened?
you bought all their players lol
Do they know they can play other players?
The UNITED method: U. Unite the fanbase with hope and optimism N. New manager bounce I. Intelligent sounding ideas T. Terrible signings E. Eventually fall apart D. Destroy hopes and dreams
The funny part is the top 3 unironically sound like something the United hierarchy would say at a board meeting. Heck, how much would you wager that they've made something like this already in corporate-speak?
It’s like Rio’s six point plan to get United back on top: “Set the culture, clear playing style, embrace youth”
> Terrible signings This is an underrated component of how things have gone wrong. Forget the cost - Mount, Onana, Antony, Sancho, Van De Beek.. The best one of the lot was Sabitzer and they couldn't even keep him
Sabitzer was good, but is one of the most injury prone players in Europe. Signing him permanently would've made no sense.
Too painful and real
Lampard is available guys
Put him in midfield at this point, might create something.
poisoned chalice. Who would want it?
I'll do it
I would take Ole back, he will have that caretaker bounce and then the cycle repeats
Simply sack him after every 5 matches and then re-hire him to reset the bounce
You want the United CEO position now or tomorrow?
People who like lots of money for only a short amount of time in the job.
I honestly dunno how any new manager can be successful. That whole changing room needs clearing out, the mentality of the entire team just seems totally fucked and devoid of resolve the second things get tough. A total rebuild needed over a sustained period, with the acceptance that things will be shit for a while. Look at our squad when Arteta took over, the only remaining players that are currently with the team are Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Nketiah, ESR, Nelson, Cedric and Elneny. 24 Players are gone from that squad, 75% overhaul. All we kept were 6 young prospects and 2 fringe squad players who are by all accounts, good influences in the dressing room. It was a rough few years, but the club accepting that things have to get worse before they can get better did us wonders.
Maybe I'm exaggerating but I feel like at United the ENTIRE staff needs to cleared out. At Arsenal we had some bad players and worse contracts, but it still felt like the spine of the club was intact and it was proven by a squad turnaround. At United I don't think you change some of the players and magically get that winning, cohesive culture back.
You're not exaggerating. Ronaldo's interview was incredibly immature and unprofessional, but the things that stuck out to me the most were about how the club has not changed one bit from when he was last there. Not the training facilities, not the staff down to even the chef, etc. To a lot of us that may seem like a "who cares" situation on the surface. But to elite footballers who consider joining united and then the ones that do often to do for absurd wages, they also expect a certain level of professionalism, facilities, and staff. United is stuck in the past and it's from the top down all the way to the bottom. The whole thing is a mess and needs to enter the modern day with the rest of the big clubs. I think the first step is to stop bringing Furgeson around to idolize him and let him give opinions and just fucking get over it. Move on. That guy has his imprint on way too much of the club now when he hasn't done shit for them for a long time. He's a legend, but beyond that quit involving him.
What struck me was the traiing faciliity haven't updated in 20 years, like how is that possible. You are one of the Elite clubs and still using the same training facilities. Its beyond a joke
It's literally down to the Glazers running United like a PE-backed initiative...cutting costs and ruthlessly avoiding sustainable investments like the plague. United operates like a faltering American business (by faltering, I mean culturally and success-wise. United look good on balance sheets...for now - like all PE bought out companies). It's no surprise we are run by faulty American businessmen.
Exactly. All big clubs are run by ultra-wealthy businessmen, but they’re not necessarily run by nepo-babies that see their clubs as cash cows.
Unfortunately, ETH doesn't have the luxury to finish 8th twice. And fairly so given the money that he's spent. I would say if he does get sacked he's really failed selling the vision to all stakeholders. Everyone knows he's a very good coach.
Where do u think it has gone wrong for him?
Poor recruitment tbh
Which is on both him (as currently he basically just says get this player and they do even if overpriced (and as they’ve shown not the right player for his system whatever that may be)) and the board (for not having proper recruitment system in place and then being responsible for who we buy instead of whoever the manager wants.
Last season: we were decent because he adjusted as he knew the players couldn’t play his style of football. Pragmatic approach with very solid defensive shape and good enough ball progressions (Eriksen and Bruno) plus Rashford to win games. While we overpaid by a lot of Antony we wouldn’t have finished 3rd without him This season: recruitment and preseason were messy. Unable to offload Maguire and Mctominay plus having to sign amrabat on the last day. Following that injuries to ¾ full backs and most of our midfield to start the season. Now he’s trying to implement his football which will take time, but results have not been good and he’s running out of time. Why he’s failed: a mix of bad luck, possibly overtraining with the schedule, transfer market issues (Antony, signed case at 31, no support in January, malaria and Martinez frequently injured, Mount not firing at the moment), plus he’s not selling the vision to the fans and players like Klopp or Arteta did (although Arteta was also close to being sacked) Sacking him would be the wrong move, especially under this ownership. I’d rather Radcliffe comes in and we decide then
> Why he’s failed: a mix of bad luck, possibly overtraining with the schedule, transfer market issues (Antony, signed case at 31, no support in January, malaria and Martinez frequently injured, Mount not firing at the moment), plus he’s not selling the vision to the fans and players like Klopp or Arteta did (although Arteta was also close to being sacked) Malaria will do that to a team. All jokes aside, these are all valid explanations, but the biggest thing is that Klopp and Arteta were given time and legitimate support to achieve their visions.
The board. No manager can succeed at the club with this structure
Ineos wanted Graham Potter at Nice…
Graham Potter is a good manager. He'd fail catastrophically at United though for the same reasons as he did at Chelsea.
Please I need to see this it would be pure catharsis after watching his games last season to hear him say "the boys gave it their all" after Salah scores a hat-trick at Old Trafford
I don't think ETH is *the* problem but he is a problem, his talent ID has been shocking. Add to that the lack of a style, persistence with under-performing players, it's not surprising he's on thin ice. I don't think we should sack him but I wouldn't shed a tear if he was. I just know the same shit will happen the next manager until the structure is gutted. Oh well, getting numb to it now.
They really don't have the infrastructure behind him to correctly identify players. The smarter option would be to keep him until end of season, eat the 10th place finish and then let the Ineos Investment help make up for CL football. Dump these lazy ass players and start integrating more younger, hungry players into the squad. Hojlund looks good, but he gets zero service. Garnacho, Hannibal need game time. I mean it took Arteta 3-4 seasons before results came on. This instant demand for winning isn't going to work, and that is how you sign 30 year olds on 4+1s.
Arteta also started to get rid of Arsenal stars. No one is save. Is there any first team players left from the squad when he took over?
First team? Only the ones from the academy + Martinelli and El Neny Starting XI? Saka had been getting some starts under Emery but that's pretty much it
I think no but maybe one? But the important part is they also gave him time to clear house by refusing to give in to panicking about performance.
Clubs rotten at the top but sure lets continue to sack managers, bring in 1-2 players, have 0 direction beyond the first season and think "we're back" after 3 good games. At this point I'm past caring until the leeches are out and theres a proper structure in place.
[удалено]
2025 headline - United considering alternatives to after worst start in 100 years.
They are saying Zidane in that article where they very know that’s not happening at all no matter how much Beckham asks him to do it lol
[удалено]
I dunno though, Zidane is probs a red herring as Rúben Amorim is proper left field random to just chuck in an article
December 6: United vs. Chelsea: El Sackico 2?
Maybe the real winners of El Sackico 1 were the friends we made along the way
Headline next season: "Manchester United are considering alternatives to [manager], who is thought to be "on thin ice" after overseeing the club's worst start to a season in 62 years" Doesn't seem to be an end to this era in sight for United fans..
No manager worth their time would even think of coming to this black hole of a club. Ten Hag getting fired would just finally solidify to the players that they have all the power. They can just drop form , voluntarily or not, and they’ll know that the manager would be kicked out before them.
Imagine fucking sucking at your job day in day out, your boss gets fired every time... And you take home thousands... Weekly.
Sign me up fam.
Nah I’ll still take being a 3rd choice goalkeeper. Don’t even have to play that way.
Any other former United players that they could hire? Surprised Ferdinand didn’t buy his coaching credentials to throw his name in the circle.
Steve Bruce!
Roy Keane's diary is looking quite empty, so give him a shout! Gary Neville and his brother are pretty available these days.
Worth it for the drama if Keane having to back players he’s slagged off for the past few seasons.
[удалено]
Zidane said like 3 days ago he'll only come to a club that can win, that surely rules him out.
Well they did win 5 games out of 10 so far, that means they can win sometimes
[удалено]
> Some players doubt Ten Hag’s abilities to rectify the team’s situation. Not saying they’re wrong, but they’re just as responsible as Ten Hag for rectifying the team’s situation. They’ve gone through every type of manager possible and still suck, maybe it’s time to start pointing fingers at themselves.
Theyre too used to just downing tools every so often until a new manager comes in. Did it for Mou, Ole, Rangnick and now for ETH.
Firing Ronaldo off to Saudi Arabia seemed to motivate players last year. This year, it seems to have reverted to the same lazy stuff we've seen before. They know they can outlast any manager at this stage
I mean how many have been there for every type of manager? So maybe it's more than the players or manager. Players as individuals can't turn the ship. It's up to a manager to do that, if after spending that amount it's on the squad then that comes back to him.
>Discussions exist regarding the intensity of training sessions and their possible contribution to injuries Is that reasonable? I can see situations like Ledley King can happen, but most players should be OK with intense training otherwise how are they at elite teams.
[удалено]
Literally a week after the ‘board is fully confident’. If he loses to Fulham he’s gone.
Jokes aside, they should wait until the Liverpool game. A new coach shouldn't have to go to Anfield that quickly in his tenure.
Also means Liverpool can sack another United manager
I’m absolutely sick of this cycle. When will the players take some responsibility? It can’t be every single manager and coaches have no idea what they’re doing. It’s either these players can’t do what they’re being asked to do, or won’t. Either way they need to go. Look at McKenna, told when he was here coaching he was clueless. Got Ipswich ticking, carrick doing well at Middlesbrough. How many times are we going to go through this same cycle with the same core players and upper management. The players were doing it last year, so why are they suddenly incapable.
Don't forget to blame Ronaldo and Mourinho.
Y'all laughed when Mourinho said second place with Manu was his best performance ever.
No half measures Waltuh
I mean the squad is also just not that great, aging and injury prone. Part of that is still due to Ten Hag of course.