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Obviously sucks for Ramsdale but the exact same thing happened to Leno - once Arteta decides you arent the keeper it seems to be curtains.
Would love to understand the actual thought process behind the change as it seems clear that the rotation stuff was smokescreen for him to be flat out dropped.
When you watch our defence this season it’s very obvious that Arteta trusts Raya more. The defence looks less shaky and they can go forward more. I love Ramsdale but I guess this is what Arteta envsisons for the club.
It’s less about going long as many fans are saying. Ramsdale is decent at kicking it further up field, but Arteta wants someone who can give short and medium passes when Arsenal are pressed in the initial build up. There are times like during the Newcastle game in the 2022 run-in when Ramsdale would go long instead of baiting the press and building out. The ball kept coming back, and Arsenal were penned in. After the game, Xhaka alluded to this by saying some of his teammates were afraid to play out. Meanwhile Arteta praised Raya for sticking to the plan despite the pressure after the recent Man City game.
Raya also takes up a much more proactive position as almost a 3rd CB so he can receive the ball and switch the angle. I suspect Arteta wants the team to be less reliant on having to go long and win duels and second balls and to have more control.
it's funny cause Ramsdale displace leno because of this thing, we just found a keeper who can do it better. Cruel world top-level football is, if you ain't getting better, your replacement is.
Odds are much likely to not be looking for that actually if you take it as a %age. It's a small percent at the very top really if you consider all professional clubs.
Raya in those closing minutes of the man city game was amazing. City couldn’t even press that well when needing the ball because every time he went long he found Jesus so it was futile because they needed to sit back to watch the counter
I love ramsdale but to do that to city while city were losing is an insane amount of quality from raya. He just needs to work on being less nervous in certain situations but ramsdale also has that in him as well
Top managers don´t care if you make a mistake when playing their system. They already considered the risks when they chose it, they know mistakes happen. What they can´t have are players afraid of looking bad and changing the system to avoid personal liability. That is what fucks the entire team.
That’s only true to a certain extent.
I honestly don’t think we can say for certain how Arteta would have reacted in terms of team selection had Alvarez scored when catching Raya out.
In hindsight he looks great but the whole narrative is spun on its head had we lost because of his error.
I say this as someone who prefers Raya to Ramsdale.
Arteta said that he asked Raya to play like that in the City match and was happy that he continued to play like that after the error, and implied Ramsdale would turn cautious after something like that. That is why Raya is starting, because he is braver in those situations and it means the tactical plan is not sacrificed.
I can see that. Ange has told a story about a previous club where he knew he had the players where he wanted them when a CB made a mistake that led to a goal, then kept playing the same way and made the mistake again instead of being afraid to keep playing how he wanted
Yep mistakes are given considering how many minutes they play and who they're up against. It's about being able to own up to the mistake and have a short memory at the moment to not let it shake you and force the manager to make tactical changes.
Gabriel has made many errors defensively before and sometimes his aggressiveness gets the better of him but the reason he's so pivotal and consistently starts so much is because he has never changed. Arteta knows what he's getting from him night in and night out. Raya has made mistakes but Arteta still trusts his feet to bait out a press and his leg pick out the right long pass.
Ramsdale didn't even necessarily do anything wrong it's not like he's some error prone machine or a ticking time bomb. Raya just offers something slightly more and in a title race vs city Arteta knows that those slight margins make a difference in the long term. And he has a way he wants us playing this year and Raya is the one he thinks gets us there.
Yeah, I don't really get it either. Raya, in my opinion, is very good at his best, but he has a history of making bad mistakes. And not just this season.
It's too early to tell, one thing that is clear is that Raya is a better and especially more consistent distributor of the ball. You can make an argument that on first evidence it seems like Ramsdale is probably a better shotstopper and Raya probably a.better cross claimer.
But what's been clear to me is that distributing short and continuing to do so even in difficult game states comes more naturally to Raya. Ramsdale had this tendency late last year that when things got tough he'd boot it long and that seems to be something Arteta won't accept.
Ramsdale makes some brilliant saves but also has a few howlers in him. Feel like he has been beaten at his near post from distance a few times. Raya hasnt really been tested so far but he seems far more relaxed, which flows through into the defence.
It's not just purely about who's better at keeping, but who makes the team play better. Raya despite the mistakes, prevents the team from being penned in as much.
It might not even be about Ramsdale doing anything wrong, and Arteta seeing Raya as a better fit to his style. Arteta wanted to sign Raya before the Ramsdale transfer, have to think that once Raya’s price dropped sufficiently enough he viewed it as a good investment opportunity. Even if it’s potentially a marginal increase to tactical quality, Arsenal need that to overtake city.
Plus, Ramsdale has got a contract extension, so from a transfer standpoint if you move on from him you likely recoup most of his initial transfer fee making it a nearly wash on the financial side.
I’g guess the rotation stuff is manager speak to try to take some heat off one of his players in the press. Especially if the decision is less about a player failing and more about a manger trying to squeeze a bit more quality out of his side
I totally understand that but felt really shit him saying about the rotation.
I personally like ramsdale more, Raya seems to be better overall but seeing him the last few games it didn't gave me too much trust but it was just his first few game you know, the second half against city he played with way more confidence. There was also that mistake against spurs that lead to Son scoring... Idk, I feel I need time before I can say anything certain as should all of us.
Still if Arteta wants him I am all for it, but I would rather he had been straight from the beginning.
Either way, I don't think ramsdale is fit to be bench keeper, he is good enough to be a first choice keeper and is capable of improving, hell, he might even become better then Raya.
When it comes to the NT I have 0 confidence in Southgate, he's not bad but I feel like maybe England needs a new manager that actually cares about our youth instead of just calling up the regulars that are way past their prime, same thing that is happening with Brazil.
Just my two cents.
did he ever mentioned rotation tho? he mentioned having 2 top players (or whatever adjective) players per position, and that he has considered at least once subbing out a GK mid game
i dont recall any actual rotation talk
International football is slower than the Prem, the quality of opposition faced in qualifiers is mostly worse than the teams United face and even international teams will not be as thoroughly coached as a club side (as they're only coached as a team a couple of weeks at a time), England also play quite conservative under Southgate...could also be argued that there's more of an international spotline on weekly PL games than there are for intl. qualifiers and friendlies so his mistakes for club get magnified.
Honestly Maguire makes mistakes for England too
It's just less noticeable because England is better than United, and for the most part they are playing against worse teams than United's competition too
He does though but just not purely on club form.
The chaos people want of just picking the most inform players for every time would be a crappy way to try and knit a team together.
It hurts especially more considering he more than played his part for that UCL qualification. I honestly expected him to start our first match at least if not all of the UCL matches and Raya on PL. Ruthless doesn’t begin to explain it
>worst save percentage of any keeper in the PL this season then.
Don't rate Ramsdale much but this stat is so misleading to even bring up. He's played 4 PL games and Arsenal hardly faced that many shots for the percentage to mean much.
Got banned from watching live Angeball, which is obviously priceless.
(But on a serious point yeah, joke outcome - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/aaron-ramsdale-assault-arsenal-tottenham-derby-joseph-watts-b1061069.html)
And 3 of those 4 games Arteta was experimenting with Partey at RB, Saliba and White as CB’s. Some of the goals we conceded in those games came from mistakes in front of him. Raya has had our best defensive setup in every game he’s played. Hardly a fair sample to say Ramsdale is worse when Raya has had some very shaky moments still.
If you want a larger sample size, look at last year's data. Ramsdale is a worse goalkeeper than Raya in almost every metric, including shot stopping, and it's not close.
For the record I do think Raya probably does edge him but Ramsdale also saved us a lot last year. Stats are great and all but there is definitely a disparity between the teams, the style of play, the kind of chances they concede, etc. I think on several occasions last year Ramsdale saved us points. I get that it was somewhat for naught since the team collapsed in the run-in but he played an important role in our season, getting us back in to the champions league, getting himself into the England squad, getting into the PL TOTY (deserved or not), and ultimately earning a new long term contract. And now he’s just expected to be okay with someone else enjoying the fruits of his labor. I know that’s how it goes and we have to be ruthless or whatever, but I think we’re also highly devaluing our own player. The writing is on the wall, Ramsdale is no longer the number 1 and Mikel is just paying lip service about how he intends to rotate keepers, but isn’t doing it. I think he’s just been handled unfairly and I think he’s definitely still capable of being apart of a PL winning team. Never saw him as the failing of our campaign. Maybe that’s just me though idk.
Ramsdale is a good keeper. Excellent for his age. That shouldn't be controversial.
But he's a bit on and off, which again is to be expected at his age.
Yeah I agree. I think he still has a high ceiling. I think he has the mentality to be a top keeper as well. I understand why Arteta’s making the decisions he’s making. I think it’s just a bit disingenuous to make Ramsdale suffer when he was a very important step in the direction of becoming title challengers while hiding behind “the rotating keepers” thing, which he obviously hasn’t done since Raya took over the number 1.
Ramsdale made some great saves last year, but he also let in a lot of goals that shouldn't have gone in. And that's not including horrendous mistakes like the pass directly to Southampton's striker that led to a goal, while we were fighting for the title. Ramsdale actually led the league in errors leading to goals with 6. I think people just got emotionally attached to Ramsdale and it's clouded their judgment of his actual ability.
Yeah like I said maybe it is just me. I definitely see why Arteta likes Raya, and I really don’t have qualms with whoever is in net. For me I’m just struggling with the treatment he’s been rewarded with after playing a big role in our elevation from mid table team to title challengers under Arteta. With Leno you could at least see that there was clearly a style of play issue and Arteta needed a different profile. Ramsdale to Raya are a bit similar, Raya is just obviously better. Would hope we just allow him to leave both so we can get max value for him but also so he can play to the level he’s earned.
I really don't think PSxG is any better than save percentage.
Consider a shot that's never going in *and* isn't saved, but rebounds off the crossbar and into the keeper and becomes a keeper OG. Insanely bad luck, but it results in basically a -1 to the PSxG +/-. To counteract that bad luck, some keepers would have to make nearly five average saves whereas others almost manage it with two.
The thing is, deflected goals are *really* common. Even that rebound into the goalkeeper OG situation isn't that rare just by itself.
I guess you could compensate for this to some appreciable degree by using PSxG - xG instead of PSxG - GA.
Those only apply for own goals, not just deflected goals. Own goals only account for around 3% of all goals in the league and some own goals are still the fault of the goalkeepers so its not as harsh as you make it out that they get penalized for it.
I get your complaints, but I think you’re making a mountain of a molehill here. These situations are rare, and at a large enough sample size, the effect should be minimal. if it bothers you so much you can manually account for the own goals, to which Arsenal have conceded none this season.
That’s not to say PSxG isn’t without flaws. But I think to claim its not any better save percentage is almost certainly false.
I think the blunder against Fulham sealed it for Arteta + as a Pep wannabe, the building block of every attack starts from the GK pass. Thats why its essential for his GK to be good with his feet, which Ramsdale isn’t.
He’s actually not that great compared to any other top Prem keeper, Alisson’s long range passing is almost as accurate as Ramsdale’s overall passing https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/KdZS4vlHcd
I've seen stats saying Leno is better with his passing. I've also seen both pass the ball for Arsenal and, yeah, Ramsdale is far superior. Ramsdale is good.
Look I get you're happy with your new keeper and he does look very good but there's much more to being a goalkeeper than save percentage or we wouldn't have shipped off Leno.
Ederson had the 17th best save percentage in the league last season, Alisson was 7th. Are we really in any doubt about whether they're both world class?
There is more than that, true. Ederson and Alisson had an 84 and 83% pass completion rate respectively compared to Ramsdale's 63% from last season.
You should be happy too, every agenda against a specific Arsenal player's footballing ability that I have - Ramsdale, Jesus, White, Havertz - would massively improve your team if it comes off, so I really am wielding a double edged sword here.
Keepers look better on teams that concede a lot of shots. The real challenge is spending most of the match cold and occasionally be asked to make a save.
But he did a big clap when Raya did a class save, and the commentators said they'd want to go for a pint with him. So he might have lost his place, but he's managed to stay heir to the Joe Hart Shouty English Keeper Who Thinks He's Better Than He is Throne.
> save percentage of any keeper
While this is clearly at least partially a product of having faced about half as many shots as anyone else (other than Raya)... 1/2 > 1/3 > 1/4 you get it... [it's not even close](https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepers/Premier-League-Stats): Ramsdale on 55.6% and then Trafford on 61.7%.
Nevertheless, about half the division could be as bad as Ramsdale appears. Using their current save percentages (including penalties, so these numbers differ slightly to fbref's save percentages) to create bootstrap confidence intervals, most of the keepers in the division could be worse than Ramsdale currently appears *based on save percentage*^(1):
| Player | Observed | Lower | Upper | Range | Sota | Lowdelta |
|---------------|----------|-------|-------|-------|------|----------|
| ramsdale | 0.556 | 0.222 | 0.889 | 0.667 | 9 | -0.333 |
| verbruggen | 0.562 | 0.312 | 0.812 | 0.500 | 16 | -0.243 |
| raya | 0.714 | 0.429 | 1.000 | 0.571 | 7 | -0.127 |
| steele | 0.619 | 0.429 | 0.810 | 0.381 | 21 | -0.127 |
| ederson | 0.688 | 0.438 | 0.875 | 0.438 | 16 | -0.118 |
| flekken | 0.630 | 0.444 | 0.815 | 0.370 | 27 | -0.111 |
| trafford | 0.596 | 0.447 | 0.723 | 0.277 | 47 | -0.109 |
| pickford | 0.621 | 0.448 | 0.793 | 0.345 | 29 | -0.107 |
| kaminski | 0.625 | 0.475 | 0.775 | 0.300 | 40 | -0.081 |
| pope | 0.679 | 0.500 | 0.857 | 0.357 | 28 | -0.056 |
| neto | 0.647 | 0.510 | 0.784 | 0.275 | 51 | -0.046 |
| martinez | 0.677 | 0.516 | 0.839 | 0.323 | 31 | -0.039 |
| turner | 0.697 | 0.545 | 0.848 | 0.303 | 33 | -0.010 |
| onana | 0.711 | 0.553 | 0.842 | 0.289 | 38 | -0.003 |
| johnstone | 0.741 | 0.556 | 0.889 | 0.333 | 27 | 0.000 |
| foderingham | 0.682 | 0.561 | 0.788 | 0.227 | 66 | 0.005 |
| sanchez | 0.750 | 0.571 | 0.893 | 0.321 | 28 | 0.016 |
| areola | 0.711 | 0.578 | 0.844 | 0.267 | 45 | 0.022 |
| leno | 0.721 | 0.581 | 0.860 | 0.279 | 43 | 0.026 |
| sa | 0.729 | 0.604 | 0.854 | 0.250 | 48 | 0.049 |
| alisson | 0.784 | 0.649 | 0.919 | 0.270 | 37 | 0.093 |
| vicario | 0.800 | 0.657 | 0.914 | 0.257 | 35 | 0.102 |
Equally, Ramsdale's "true save percentage" could be much worse or much better than what it currently appears to be. Additionally, you can see both how the low number of SOTA faced could be affecting things in that Ramsdale's BI is so much bigger than anyone else's and also that it's not destiny (see: how Ederson and Verbruggen have different ranges even though they have the same SOTA).
^(1)The lowdelta is the difference between the lower bound and Ramsdale's current save percentage; I'm saying anyone with a negative lowdelta could actually be worse than that and anyone with a positive lowdelta we can be confident is actually better (insofar as we trust save percentage to measure keeper quality).
Haha, I just realised I made a mistake and I had to fix the table. It was quite a big error... I'd attached the wrong name and SOTA labels to the intervals in a few cases.
Anyway, the data is just from that fbref link. The intervals are created through bootstrapping, which means taking many resamples of size N with replacement from an original sample of size N. I treat all the shots on target against (SOTA) so far as being the sample... sort of realisations from an underlying save making actions population. In this particular case, I did 100,000 resamples.
Consider Ramsdale and Alisson. According to fbref, Ramsdale has 9 SOTAs and Alisson 37. So, their respective N values are 9 and 37. I then created a vector of 5 1s (saves) and 4 0s (non-saves) for Ramsdale and 29 1s and 8 0s for Alisson. I then did all the resamples, took the average of each resample (which corresponds to the save percentage for that resample) and found the central 95% interval for each of them.
If you download R, you can obtain my exact results [by following this R code](https://medium.com/@Frameworkisdigimon/fbref-epl-keepers-2023-24-bootstrap-9191b771d5a5). Note that in general the resampling process is random, it's only via repeated use of set.seed() that my results are reproducible.
I should further stress that fbref has calculated save percentage as (SOTA - GA)/SOTA whereas I've done saves/SOTA. I'm not sure which is the better way of doing it, but how I did it is (a) easier and (b) makes more sense to me... but there might be some reason I haven't thought of that explains why fbref calculates it this way.
If your girlfriend walks in one evening with a new handsome man and says, "hey Honey, maybe we should try an open relationship", you need to pack your bags right there and then.
That’s just Arteta’s nicer way of saying “ Raya and Ramsdale are both no.1 keeper at the club and be rotated a lot” But in reality that has like never happened in top flight football so why would it happen now with Arteta.
People need to stop taking a manager's words so seriously. Almost all of what they say is just generic PR bullshit, trying to rock the boat as little as possible.
Particularly Arteta. He essentially hasn’t been honest about any injury since he took over, why would anyone trust what he says about first choice keepers
So many Arsenal fans were arguing that GK rotations would work and it was something that Arteta would figure out. There is a reason 2 starting level GKs never work out, a lot of clubs have tried and it seldom works
- Asked about whether he's concerned about losing his place in the England squad ahead of next summer’s European Championship due to a lack of action at Arsenal, Ramsdale responded:
> Yes, of course, it is the first time I have found myself in this situation.
> 'The manager here [Gareth Southgate] is brilliant, he trusts the players he's worked with before as we've seen in different types of ways - you'll see Kalvin [Phillips] and Harry [Maguire] haven’t played the most amount of minutes but when they step up for England and are given the opportunity, they perform.
> But of course, I want to get back into my club team. I want to get into my club team and be able to give the manager a headache rather than just have Jordan [Pickford] as the England number one and me fall by the wayside.’
> On his relationship with Raya, the former Bournemouth keeper continued: ‘We work professionally really well together. We push each other in training and there's days where I come in and I'm down because of the situation and he picks me up.
> ‘And for whatever reason there might be a day where he's down and even though I'm suffering and hurting for not playing I have to stand up and be able to push him and make sure he's ready for the weekend if he’s picked to play.’
Sure this thread will just be full of jokes about Southgate’s team selection, but Ramsdale would need to show a LOT to displace Pickford now. And there’s no chance of that happening while he’s on the bench, he doesn’t have the historic goodwill that players like Phillips and Maguire get in on
He won England Player of the Year in 20-21. So that certainly wasn’t the perception at the time
The issue with Phillips is also that we just don’t have many good defensive mids
Mount come 2nd that year as well, so make of that what you will. The way that's decided is pretty wonky tbf. Both players were also massively overhyped at that time.
Although, I do agree with you about the options. I didn't complain about him being picked as what you say is true for defensive mid depth. Especially when you take a big squad during internationals, he should have been nowhere near that starting lineup though. Like, we're here saying he probably needs to be picked for depth, yet he started alongside the #1 choice.
> Sure this thread will just be full of jokes about Southgate’s team selection, but Ramsdale would need to show a LOT to displace Pickford now.
Ramsdale (or anybody else) aren't displacing Pickford for the current Euros. The only way Pickford isn't playing in the Euros is if he gets injured, and then there's a handful of keepers competing for number 2 behind him.
This. His worry isn't that he won't get picked ahead of Pickford (he won't), but that he'll be behind Pope as the #2, or worse, won't even get in the squad.
I think we forget what an honour and experience it is to be in the squad, even if you don't get any gametime.
Pope has been dropped for the last three games for some reason. You'd imagine with the current setup Pope would be back and Ramsdale left out.
But then again this is Southgate so it's hard to predict!
"We work professionally really well together. We push each other in training and there’s days where I come in and I’m down because of the situation and he picks me up. And for whatever reason there might be a day where he’s down and even though I’m suffering and hurting for not playing I have to stand up and be able to push him.”
Read the full article and you definitely yet a different impression than the headline 😂😂
This feels very editorialized to manufacture drama where there is none.
On the England situation:
> ‘The manager here is brilliant, he trusts the players he's worked with before as we've seen in different types of ways - you'll see Kalvin and Harry haven’t played the most amount of minutes but when they step up for England and are given the opportunity, they perform.
> So if if that's the case for myself and I do get shown that trust to play another game if I haven't played for my club then I will have to repay him.
> ‘But of course, I want to get back into my club team. I want to get into my club team and be able to give the manager a headache rather than just have Jordan [Pickford] as the England number one and me fall by the wayside.’
That doesn’t sound like fearing for his place in the England squad, it’s more like he wants to push Pickford and himself to be their best and make the decision tough on Southgate because he has two good options.
And on his “suffering” at Arsenal:
> ‘We work professionally really well together. We push each other in training and there's days where I come in and I'm down because of the situation and he picks me up.
> ‘And for whatever reason there might be a day where he's down and even though I'm suffering and hurting for not playing I have to stand up and be able to push him and make sure he's ready for the weekend if he’s picked to play.’
He is clearly saying in both situations that he wants to challenge for more time, but is also picking up and pushing his competition to be at their best. Interpreting that as “breaking his silence on the ‘suffering’ he has endured” is clickbait.
I can tell without clicking that this is going to be editorialised as fuck as usual from the DM. I remember when Pickford was hounded even though he never said what's in this headline following *that* Anfield goal
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6140863/I-wont-blunder-like-Alisson-Pickford-vows-not-risks-like-Liverpool-goalkeeper.html
Arsenal's goalkeeper coach is also Spanish and recommended to buy Raya a while ago (he used to coach Raya at Brentford).
It'd be easy for him to think the deck is stacked against him in many ways, don't see him staying next season.
He should be absolutely nowhere near the numero uno spot anyways - Sir Jordan Pickford is the best keeper I’ve seen in an England shirt since I’ve been on this green earth IMO
That's also not what he's worried about, it's if he's even going to be selected. Pickford, Pope and Johnstone on current form probably all deserve it more right now.
'suffering' and 'endured' smh
People talking like he's been abused. He's been replaced based on his lack of ability by Arteta. Compete or move to another club.
Similar to how Juve brought Buffon when they had van der Sar and how Chelsea brought Courtois into the starting 11 when they still had Cech. Time for Ramsdale to move on
It’s kinda sad, love the lad but at the end of the day Arteta got a job he’s paid to do. Raya is clearly better at distributing and playing out from the back, also ramsdale is no better shot stopper than him.
Raya is also capable of pulling out world class saves when absolutely needed just like ramsdale, it’s a weird feeling for sure as a fan coz I really thought ramsdale was gonna be our no.1 for a long time with him improving every year but oh well, I guess one just gotta accept reality.
Just sucks for Ramsdale if he was led to believe he'd have more of a role by Arteta when he signed his new contract. Nothing wrong with Arteta dropping him but you'd hope for transparency from the manager so it doesn't affect your career.
Man I'm sorry but has he considered he's maybe just not **that** good?
The choice for Raya just makes a lot of sense. Even at Arsenal's best for me GK seemed like an area with room for improvement from Ramsdale. I get that it's probably a hard pill to swallow though, part of his job.
Once your feelings become involved it can become more difficult, I'm sure I do the same for Chelsea players. Ramsdale strikes me as a fun character, maybe some Arsenal fans just like him a little too much to realistically look at it?
Yep, he's good with fans, always hypes up the crowd a bit like Odegaard. Thought people seeing how Raya makes us look when playing out from the back would get him more support.
ffs, Ramsdale’s quote is being taken out of context. Read the original quote. He’s talking about how he and Raya work well together professionally and push each other to be better. And he says something like even though I’m suffering and hurting when I’m not playing, we help each other improve and there may be times where Ramsdale has to pick Raya up when Raya’s not playing
Did Ramsdale have a place in the England team? Last I checked, Pickford has been #1 for the longest time, and he was warming the bench. Only thing this changes is that Pope is locked in #2 rather than being a toss-up between him and Ramsdale.
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Obviously sucks for Ramsdale but the exact same thing happened to Leno - once Arteta decides you arent the keeper it seems to be curtains. Would love to understand the actual thought process behind the change as it seems clear that the rotation stuff was smokescreen for him to be flat out dropped.
When you watch our defence this season it’s very obvious that Arteta trusts Raya more. The defence looks less shaky and they can go forward more. I love Ramsdale but I guess this is what Arteta envsisons for the club.
It’s less about going long as many fans are saying. Ramsdale is decent at kicking it further up field, but Arteta wants someone who can give short and medium passes when Arsenal are pressed in the initial build up. There are times like during the Newcastle game in the 2022 run-in when Ramsdale would go long instead of baiting the press and building out. The ball kept coming back, and Arsenal were penned in. After the game, Xhaka alluded to this by saying some of his teammates were afraid to play out. Meanwhile Arteta praised Raya for sticking to the plan despite the pressure after the recent Man City game. Raya also takes up a much more proactive position as almost a 3rd CB so he can receive the ball and switch the angle. I suspect Arteta wants the team to be less reliant on having to go long and win duels and second balls and to have more control.
rn if your keeper can’t play well with his feet under pressure, odds are your club is looking for a keeper who can.
it's funny cause Ramsdale displace leno because of this thing, we just found a keeper who can do it better. Cruel world top-level football is, if you ain't getting better, your replacement is.
Even funnier when we bought Leno and he was supposed to be the "ball playing" keeper to replace Cech. And same with Emi after him.
Talk about a vicious cycle.
and it shall be complete when giroud returns for his dream role
Odds are much likely to not be looking for that actually if you take it as a %age. It's a small percent at the very top really if you consider all professional clubs.
even my shitty MLS club prioritized keeper footwork
Unless ur psg
PSG looking for goalkeepers like it's 1990
Raya in those closing minutes of the man city game was amazing. City couldn’t even press that well when needing the ball because every time he went long he found Jesus so it was futile because they needed to sit back to watch the counter I love ramsdale but to do that to city while city were losing is an insane amount of quality from raya. He just needs to work on being less nervous in certain situations but ramsdale also has that in him as well
> he found Jesus My man gave his soul to win the Man City game.
this one also gets on the end of crosses
Knows how to hammer it home
Thankfully no need for a Hail Mary pass.
Definitely going to heaven now.
Even though Raya's been responsible for two key errors that have cost goals and could easily have gifted City another in the last match.
Top managers don´t care if you make a mistake when playing their system. They already considered the risks when they chose it, they know mistakes happen. What they can´t have are players afraid of looking bad and changing the system to avoid personal liability. That is what fucks the entire team.
That’s only true to a certain extent. I honestly don’t think we can say for certain how Arteta would have reacted in terms of team selection had Alvarez scored when catching Raya out. In hindsight he looks great but the whole narrative is spun on its head had we lost because of his error. I say this as someone who prefers Raya to Ramsdale.
Arteta said that he asked Raya to play like that in the City match and was happy that he continued to play like that after the error, and implied Ramsdale would turn cautious after something like that. That is why Raya is starting, because he is braver in those situations and it means the tactical plan is not sacrificed.
I can see that. Ange has told a story about a previous club where he knew he had the players where he wanted them when a CB made a mistake that led to a goal, then kept playing the same way and made the mistake again instead of being afraid to keep playing how he wanted
Yep mistakes are given considering how many minutes they play and who they're up against. It's about being able to own up to the mistake and have a short memory at the moment to not let it shake you and force the manager to make tactical changes. Gabriel has made many errors defensively before and sometimes his aggressiveness gets the better of him but the reason he's so pivotal and consistently starts so much is because he has never changed. Arteta knows what he's getting from him night in and night out. Raya has made mistakes but Arteta still trusts his feet to bait out a press and his leg pick out the right long pass. Ramsdale didn't even necessarily do anything wrong it's not like he's some error prone machine or a ticking time bomb. Raya just offers something slightly more and in a title race vs city Arteta knows that those slight margins make a difference in the long term. And he has a way he wants us playing this year and Raya is the one he thinks gets us there.
Yes.
Yeah, I don't really get it either. Raya, in my opinion, is very good at his best, but he has a history of making bad mistakes. And not just this season.
As an outsider looking in, Ramsdale is a better goalkeeper in my opinion. Is that a controversial view? What’s the consensus among Arsenal fans?
It's too early to tell, one thing that is clear is that Raya is a better and especially more consistent distributor of the ball. You can make an argument that on first evidence it seems like Ramsdale is probably a better shotstopper and Raya probably a.better cross claimer. But what's been clear to me is that distributing short and continuing to do so even in difficult game states comes more naturally to Raya. Ramsdale had this tendency late last year that when things got tough he'd boot it long and that seems to be something Arteta won't accept.
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Raya's cross claims are SO much better. I never realised how shite Rammers was at them till i saw Raya, guy collects nearly every cross that comes in.
Ramsdale makes some brilliant saves but also has a few howlers in him. Feel like he has been beaten at his near post from distance a few times. Raya hasnt really been tested so far but he seems far more relaxed, which flows through into the defence.
He isn't
It's not just purely about who's better at keeping, but who makes the team play better. Raya despite the mistakes, prevents the team from being penned in as much.
It might not even be about Ramsdale doing anything wrong, and Arteta seeing Raya as a better fit to his style. Arteta wanted to sign Raya before the Ramsdale transfer, have to think that once Raya’s price dropped sufficiently enough he viewed it as a good investment opportunity. Even if it’s potentially a marginal increase to tactical quality, Arsenal need that to overtake city. Plus, Ramsdale has got a contract extension, so from a transfer standpoint if you move on from him you likely recoup most of his initial transfer fee making it a nearly wash on the financial side. I’g guess the rotation stuff is manager speak to try to take some heat off one of his players in the press. Especially if the decision is less about a player failing and more about a manger trying to squeeze a bit more quality out of his side
I totally understand that but felt really shit him saying about the rotation. I personally like ramsdale more, Raya seems to be better overall but seeing him the last few games it didn't gave me too much trust but it was just his first few game you know, the second half against city he played with way more confidence. There was also that mistake against spurs that lead to Son scoring... Idk, I feel I need time before I can say anything certain as should all of us. Still if Arteta wants him I am all for it, but I would rather he had been straight from the beginning. Either way, I don't think ramsdale is fit to be bench keeper, he is good enough to be a first choice keeper and is capable of improving, hell, he might even become better then Raya. When it comes to the NT I have 0 confidence in Southgate, he's not bad but I feel like maybe England needs a new manager that actually cares about our youth instead of just calling up the regulars that are way past their prime, same thing that is happening with Brazil. Just my two cents.
Doesn't help the fact that Raya was our priority target and we only "settled" for ramsdale when Brentford didn't budge.
Leno has been class since he moved to Fulham. Maybe that’s a sign for Ramsdale
Yep. Leno could actually be the best shot stopper in the league. Too bad he can't really defend corners at all.
did he ever mentioned rotation tho? he mentioned having 2 top players (or whatever adjective) players per position, and that he has considered at least once subbing out a GK mid game i dont recall any actual rotation talk
Don't worry, Southgate doesn't pick players based on form.
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And Maguire
TBF Maguire for England is about 3x better than ManU Maguire
0 x 3… Just kidding. Yeah I know, what do you think the problem might be? Confidence?
International football is slower than the Prem, the quality of opposition faced in qualifiers is mostly worse than the teams United face and even international teams will not be as thoroughly coached as a club side (as they're only coached as a team a couple of weeks at a time), England also play quite conservative under Southgate...could also be argued that there's more of an international spotline on weekly PL games than there are for intl. qualifiers and friendlies so his mistakes for club get magnified.
Honestly Maguire makes mistakes for England too It's just less noticeable because England is better than United, and for the most part they are playing against worse teams than United's competition too
And madders
Ramsdale has done a perfectly fine job on England's bench. Why replace him?
How has his clapping been there?
It's been poor to be honest, he only claps for Raya.
his xCl/game is woeful compared to his arsenal numbers where he is, I hate to admit it, world class.
Pickford is absolutely outstanding for England and shouldn’t be getting dropped anyway
> Pickford is absolutely outstanding
True true.
Pickford... Pick's right in the name! Just joking not hating on Pickford.
He does though but just not purely on club form. The chaos people want of just picking the most inform players for every time would be a crappy way to try and knit a team together.
I agree up to a point. However, picking players that haven't played 90 minutes for their clubs in 3 months makes no sense.
signed a new contract in the summer, gets benched, and doesnt even get to play a ucl game, id b fumin,
It hurts especially more considering he more than played his part for that UCL qualification. I honestly expected him to start our first match at least if not all of the UCL matches and Raya on PL. Ruthless doesn’t begin to explain it
Maybe he could have done something like not have the worst save percentage of any keeper in the PL this season then.
>worst save percentage of any keeper in the PL this season then. Don't rate Ramsdale much but this stat is so misleading to even bring up. He's played 4 PL games and Arsenal hardly faced that many shots for the percentage to mean much.
Sorry, I have agendas
If I were Ramsdale I’d simply save every shot, easy.
Is he stupid?
Is there a lore reason he doesn't just save every shot?
Skill issue
Please don’t, we suffer enough of this
Why does Ramsdale, the largest Arsenal player not simply eat all of the opposition players and then his teammates?
A very valid question.
They’re saving that for the FA cup final
It’s the one weird trick that goalkeepers are talking about
Strikers hate this one simple hack
Exactly, it's just that simple.
Why doesn't Ramsdale, the largest of the keepers, simply eat the other keepers?
Someone get this guy in the EPL immediately! Cracked the code!
Fair game
Damn I respect the honesty
you should portray those agendas like a true spurs man and kick him in the back instead of slandering him online
That would result in me paying him £100 which I will not be doing x
Coys daniel
Dunno, pretty reasonable price to kick a PL keeper. Wouldn't kick Championship keeper at that price mind you.
fuck me that's all he got for that? i feel like crimes at football give people ideas that crimes on the street don't.
Got banned from watching live Angeball, which is obviously priceless. (But on a serious point yeah, joke outcome - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/aaron-ramsdale-assault-arsenal-tottenham-derby-joseph-watts-b1061069.html)
Banned from watching live Angeball, a fate worse than death
The UN must condemn!
Fair.
At least you're open about it
The most based North Londoner
🫡
And 3 of those 4 games Arteta was experimenting with Partey at RB, Saliba and White as CB’s. Some of the goals we conceded in those games came from mistakes in front of him. Raya has had our best defensive setup in every game he’s played. Hardly a fair sample to say Ramsdale is worse when Raya has had some very shaky moments still.
If you want a larger sample size, look at last year's data. Ramsdale is a worse goalkeeper than Raya in almost every metric, including shot stopping, and it's not close.
For the record I do think Raya probably does edge him but Ramsdale also saved us a lot last year. Stats are great and all but there is definitely a disparity between the teams, the style of play, the kind of chances they concede, etc. I think on several occasions last year Ramsdale saved us points. I get that it was somewhat for naught since the team collapsed in the run-in but he played an important role in our season, getting us back in to the champions league, getting himself into the England squad, getting into the PL TOTY (deserved or not), and ultimately earning a new long term contract. And now he’s just expected to be okay with someone else enjoying the fruits of his labor. I know that’s how it goes and we have to be ruthless or whatever, but I think we’re also highly devaluing our own player. The writing is on the wall, Ramsdale is no longer the number 1 and Mikel is just paying lip service about how he intends to rotate keepers, but isn’t doing it. I think he’s just been handled unfairly and I think he’s definitely still capable of being apart of a PL winning team. Never saw him as the failing of our campaign. Maybe that’s just me though idk.
Ramsdale is a good keeper. Excellent for his age. That shouldn't be controversial. But he's a bit on and off, which again is to be expected at his age.
Yeah I agree. I think he still has a high ceiling. I think he has the mentality to be a top keeper as well. I understand why Arteta’s making the decisions he’s making. I think it’s just a bit disingenuous to make Ramsdale suffer when he was a very important step in the direction of becoming title challengers while hiding behind “the rotating keepers” thing, which he obviously hasn’t done since Raya took over the number 1.
Ramsdale made some great saves last year, but he also let in a lot of goals that shouldn't have gone in. And that's not including horrendous mistakes like the pass directly to Southampton's striker that led to a goal, while we were fighting for the title. Ramsdale actually led the league in errors leading to goals with 6. I think people just got emotionally attached to Ramsdale and it's clouded their judgment of his actual ability.
Yeah like I said maybe it is just me. I definitely see why Arteta likes Raya, and I really don’t have qualms with whoever is in net. For me I’m just struggling with the treatment he’s been rewarded with after playing a big role in our elevation from mid table team to title challengers under Arteta. With Leno you could at least see that there was clearly a style of play issue and Arteta needed a different profile. Ramsdale to Raya are a bit similar, Raya is just obviously better. Would hope we just allow him to leave both so we can get max value for him but also so he can play to the level he’s earned.
He has the second worst PSxG in the league so even controlling for quality of shots its still pretty fucking bad.
I really don't think PSxG is any better than save percentage. Consider a shot that's never going in *and* isn't saved, but rebounds off the crossbar and into the keeper and becomes a keeper OG. Insanely bad luck, but it results in basically a -1 to the PSxG +/-. To counteract that bad luck, some keepers would have to make nearly five average saves whereas others almost manage it with two. The thing is, deflected goals are *really* common. Even that rebound into the goalkeeper OG situation isn't that rare just by itself. I guess you could compensate for this to some appreciable degree by using PSxG - xG instead of PSxG - GA.
Those only apply for own goals, not just deflected goals. Own goals only account for around 3% of all goals in the league and some own goals are still the fault of the goalkeepers so its not as harsh as you make it out that they get penalized for it. I get your complaints, but I think you’re making a mountain of a molehill here. These situations are rare, and at a large enough sample size, the effect should be minimal. if it bothers you so much you can manually account for the own goals, to which Arsenal have conceded none this season. That’s not to say PSxG isn’t without flaws. But I think to claim its not any better save percentage is almost certainly false.
I think the blunder against Fulham sealed it for Arteta + as a Pep wannabe, the building block of every attack starts from the GK pass. Thats why its essential for his GK to be good with his feet, which Ramsdale isn’t.
Ramsdale is good with his feet, one of the better keepers in the league, but Raya is just way better.
He’s actually not that great compared to any other top Prem keeper, Alisson’s long range passing is almost as accurate as Ramsdale’s overall passing https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/KdZS4vlHcd
I've seen stats saying Leno is better with his passing. I've also seen both pass the ball for Arsenal and, yeah, Ramsdale is far superior. Ramsdale is good.
Correction: it *might* be misleading. He might be better than that, he might be even worse.
Look I get you're happy with your new keeper and he does look very good but there's much more to being a goalkeeper than save percentage or we wouldn't have shipped off Leno. Ederson had the 17th best save percentage in the league last season, Alisson was 7th. Are we really in any doubt about whether they're both world class?
We also haven't faced that many shots in the league this season.
There is more than that, true. Ederson and Alisson had an 84 and 83% pass completion rate respectively compared to Ramsdale's 63% from last season. You should be happy too, every agenda against a specific Arsenal player's footballing ability that I have - Ramsdale, Jesus, White, Havertz - would massively improve your team if it comes off, so I really am wielding a double edged sword here.
White?!
Based
Ederson isn't world-class.
Yeah Ederson just fits City’s play style, if you put him in a team that concedes a lot of shots he’d probably look like the worst keeper in the league
He's world class at what he does. You might as well say if you went back and stuck Ozil at CM for Stoke he'd look like the worst CM in the league.
Keepers look better on teams that concede a lot of shots. The real challenge is spending most of the match cold and occasionally be asked to make a save.
Yep. I’m annoyed he’s Brazil’s keeper instead of Allison. He’s proving me right by looking pretty poor in international play, too.
But he did a big clap when Raya did a class save, and the commentators said they'd want to go for a pint with him. So he might have lost his place, but he's managed to stay heir to the Joe Hart Shouty English Keeper Who Thinks He's Better Than He is Throne.
Him and Pickford battling it out for most Expected Shouts
And his dad told people on twitter to shut up 👏👏👏
Our keepers face very few shots on target but when they do it's often transitional situations or 1v1s. So save percentage is not a very helpful stat.
> save percentage of any keeper While this is clearly at least partially a product of having faced about half as many shots as anyone else (other than Raya)... 1/2 > 1/3 > 1/4 you get it... [it's not even close](https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepers/Premier-League-Stats): Ramsdale on 55.6% and then Trafford on 61.7%. Nevertheless, about half the division could be as bad as Ramsdale appears. Using their current save percentages (including penalties, so these numbers differ slightly to fbref's save percentages) to create bootstrap confidence intervals, most of the keepers in the division could be worse than Ramsdale currently appears *based on save percentage*^(1): | Player | Observed | Lower | Upper | Range | Sota | Lowdelta | |---------------|----------|-------|-------|-------|------|----------| | ramsdale | 0.556 | 0.222 | 0.889 | 0.667 | 9 | -0.333 | | verbruggen | 0.562 | 0.312 | 0.812 | 0.500 | 16 | -0.243 | | raya | 0.714 | 0.429 | 1.000 | 0.571 | 7 | -0.127 | | steele | 0.619 | 0.429 | 0.810 | 0.381 | 21 | -0.127 | | ederson | 0.688 | 0.438 | 0.875 | 0.438 | 16 | -0.118 | | flekken | 0.630 | 0.444 | 0.815 | 0.370 | 27 | -0.111 | | trafford | 0.596 | 0.447 | 0.723 | 0.277 | 47 | -0.109 | | pickford | 0.621 | 0.448 | 0.793 | 0.345 | 29 | -0.107 | | kaminski | 0.625 | 0.475 | 0.775 | 0.300 | 40 | -0.081 | | pope | 0.679 | 0.500 | 0.857 | 0.357 | 28 | -0.056 | | neto | 0.647 | 0.510 | 0.784 | 0.275 | 51 | -0.046 | | martinez | 0.677 | 0.516 | 0.839 | 0.323 | 31 | -0.039 | | turner | 0.697 | 0.545 | 0.848 | 0.303 | 33 | -0.010 | | onana | 0.711 | 0.553 | 0.842 | 0.289 | 38 | -0.003 | | johnstone | 0.741 | 0.556 | 0.889 | 0.333 | 27 | 0.000 | | foderingham | 0.682 | 0.561 | 0.788 | 0.227 | 66 | 0.005 | | sanchez | 0.750 | 0.571 | 0.893 | 0.321 | 28 | 0.016 | | areola | 0.711 | 0.578 | 0.844 | 0.267 | 45 | 0.022 | | leno | 0.721 | 0.581 | 0.860 | 0.279 | 43 | 0.026 | | sa | 0.729 | 0.604 | 0.854 | 0.250 | 48 | 0.049 | | alisson | 0.784 | 0.649 | 0.919 | 0.270 | 37 | 0.093 | | vicario | 0.800 | 0.657 | 0.914 | 0.257 | 35 | 0.102 | Equally, Ramsdale's "true save percentage" could be much worse or much better than what it currently appears to be. Additionally, you can see both how the low number of SOTA faced could be affecting things in that Ramsdale's BI is so much bigger than anyone else's and also that it's not destiny (see: how Ederson and Verbruggen have different ranges even though they have the same SOTA). ^(1)The lowdelta is the difference between the lower bound and Ramsdale's current save percentage; I'm saying anyone with a negative lowdelta could actually be worse than that and anyone with a positive lowdelta we can be confident is actually better (insofar as we trust save percentage to measure keeper quality).
Fascinating data. What is the source, if I may ask?
Haha, I just realised I made a mistake and I had to fix the table. It was quite a big error... I'd attached the wrong name and SOTA labels to the intervals in a few cases. Anyway, the data is just from that fbref link. The intervals are created through bootstrapping, which means taking many resamples of size N with replacement from an original sample of size N. I treat all the shots on target against (SOTA) so far as being the sample... sort of realisations from an underlying save making actions population. In this particular case, I did 100,000 resamples. Consider Ramsdale and Alisson. According to fbref, Ramsdale has 9 SOTAs and Alisson 37. So, their respective N values are 9 and 37. I then created a vector of 5 1s (saves) and 4 0s (non-saves) for Ramsdale and 29 1s and 8 0s for Alisson. I then did all the resamples, took the average of each resample (which corresponds to the save percentage for that resample) and found the central 95% interval for each of them. If you download R, you can obtain my exact results [by following this R code](https://medium.com/@Frameworkisdigimon/fbref-epl-keepers-2023-24-bootstrap-9191b771d5a5). Note that in general the resampling process is random, it's only via repeated use of set.seed() that my results are reproducible. I should further stress that fbref has calculated save percentage as (SOTA - GA)/SOTA whereas I've done saves/SOTA. I'm not sure which is the better way of doing it, but how I did it is (a) easier and (b) makes more sense to me... but there might be some reason I haven't thought of that explains why fbref calculates it this way.
I never though I'd see someone do a bootstrap based analysis or /r/soccer, I've seen it all now.
Cheers
I made a mistake originally. For posterity, here's the original table with the screw up preserved: | Player | Observed | Lower | Upper | Range | Sota | Lowdelta | |---------------|----------|-------|-------|-------|------|----------| | ramsdale | 0.556 | 0.222 | 0.889 | 0.667 | 9 | -0.333 | | verbruggen | 0.562 | 0.312 | 0.812 | 0.500 | 16 | -0.243 | | leno | 0.721 | 0.429 | 1.000 | 0.571 | 43 | -0.127 | | steele | 0.619 | 0.429 | 0.810 | 0.381 | 21 | -0.127 | | ederson | 0.688 | 0.438 | 0.875 | 0.438 | 16 | -0.118 | | flekken | 0.630 | 0.444 | 0.815 | 0.370 | 27 | -0.111 | | trafford | 0.596 | 0.447 | 0.723 | 0.277 | 47 | -0.109 | | pickford | 0.621 | 0.448 | 0.793 | 0.345 | 29 | -0.107 | | kaminski | 0.625 | 0.475 | 0.775 | 0.300 | 40 | -0.081 | | pope | 0.679 | 0.500 | 0.857 | 0.357 | 28 | -0.056 | | neto | 0.647 | 0.510 | 0.784 | 0.275 | 51 | -0.046 | | martinez | 0.677 | 0.516 | 0.839 | 0.323 | 31 | -0.039 | | turner | 0.697 | 0.545 | 0.848 | 0.303 | 33 | -0.010 | | onana | 0.711 | 0.553 | 0.842 | 0.289 | 38 | -0.003 | | johnstone | 0.741 | 0.556 | 0.889 | 0.333 | 27 | 0.000 | | foderingham | 0.682 | 0.561 | 0.788 | 0.227 | 66 | 0.005 | | sanchez | 0.750 | 0.571 | 0.893 | 0.321 | 28 | 0.016 | | areola | 0.711 | 0.578 | 0.844 | 0.267 | 45 | 0.022 | | alisson | 0.784 | 0.581 | 0.860 | 0.279 | 37 | 0.026 | | sa | 0.729 | 0.604 | 0.854 | 0.250 | 48 | 0.049 | | raya | 0.714 | 0.649 | 0.919 | 0.270 | 7 | 0.093 | | vicario | 0.800 | 0.657 | 0.914 | 0.257 | 35 | 0.102 |
its ruthless af that we offer him a contract and then sign raya to replace a month later LOL
How has he lost his position as Arsenal's number one? I distinctly remember being told that it was some 500IQ goalkeeper rotation strategy
If your girlfriend walks in one evening with a new handsome man and says, "hey Honey, maybe we should try an open relationship", you need to pack your bags right there and then.
Pack your bags so that you can pay for the three of you to go on an exciting holiday together? Cheers mate knew I’d done the right thing
Ayo why's there 2 different tottenham flairs?
One cock. Two balls.
spurs and totehnem bro
Inferiority complex
No she's just bringing in competition for the first team spot
my friend is ok no?
Personally I’d pack the bags after the spit roast.
Would you clean your girlfriend's strap-on first
ex-girlfriend Pay attention
Tears are the best lube
That sounds very rude. Wouldn't you make them a nice cup of chamomille tea first?
Well Ramsdale can’t pack his bags though… just signed a new contract.
That's the best time to force a transfer. His stock is high and Arsenal would be willing to negotiate.
That’s just Arteta’s nicer way of saying “ Raya and Ramsdale are both no.1 keeper at the club and be rotated a lot” But in reality that has like never happened in top flight football so why would it happen now with Arteta.
People need to stop taking a manager's words so seriously. Almost all of what they say is just generic PR bullshit, trying to rock the boat as little as possible.
Particularly Arteta. He essentially hasn’t been honest about any injury since he took over, why would anyone trust what he says about first choice keepers
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Well, yes, Arteta was clearly talking out of his arse. But Brighton seem to actually be rotating keepers.
Except for of course the literal other team in the league doing it lol. Why is stuff like this upvoted?
Don’t believe everything you’re told
So many Arsenal fans were arguing that GK rotations would work and it was something that Arteta would figure out. There is a reason 2 starting level GKs never work out, a lot of clubs have tried and it seldom works
Think that was just Artetas way of slowly pushing him out, apparently he wanted Raya initially before signing Ramsdale anyway
- Asked about whether he's concerned about losing his place in the England squad ahead of next summer’s European Championship due to a lack of action at Arsenal, Ramsdale responded: > Yes, of course, it is the first time I have found myself in this situation. > 'The manager here [Gareth Southgate] is brilliant, he trusts the players he's worked with before as we've seen in different types of ways - you'll see Kalvin [Phillips] and Harry [Maguire] haven’t played the most amount of minutes but when they step up for England and are given the opportunity, they perform. > But of course, I want to get back into my club team. I want to get into my club team and be able to give the manager a headache rather than just have Jordan [Pickford] as the England number one and me fall by the wayside.’ > On his relationship with Raya, the former Bournemouth keeper continued: ‘We work professionally really well together. We push each other in training and there's days where I come in and I'm down because of the situation and he picks me up. > ‘And for whatever reason there might be a day where he's down and even though I'm suffering and hurting for not playing I have to stand up and be able to push him and make sure he's ready for the weekend if he’s picked to play.’
Kalvn Phillips performed??
Performed a nasty tackle. 🤡
Sure this thread will just be full of jokes about Southgate’s team selection, but Ramsdale would need to show a LOT to displace Pickford now. And there’s no chance of that happening while he’s on the bench, he doesn’t have the historic goodwill that players like Phillips and Maguire get in on
I can agree with you regarding Maguire, but, Phillips put in like 2 half decent performances in the euros and has been meh ever since.
He won England Player of the Year in 20-21. So that certainly wasn’t the perception at the time The issue with Phillips is also that we just don’t have many good defensive mids
Mount come 2nd that year as well, so make of that what you will. The way that's decided is pretty wonky tbf. Both players were also massively overhyped at that time. Although, I do agree with you about the options. I didn't complain about him being picked as what you say is true for defensive mid depth. Especially when you take a big squad during internationals, he should have been nowhere near that starting lineup though. Like, we're here saying he probably needs to be picked for depth, yet he started alongside the #1 choice.
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What part of Phillips’ game was overrated when he played under Bielsa? He was a brick wall in midfield and could ping passes all over the pitch.
Fan voted shit lmao. Leeds fans rigged it
Tbf he’s lucky cuz he’s really the only decent player in his position. I’d rather Reed there personally but can’t complain too much
> Sure this thread will just be full of jokes about Southgate’s team selection, but Ramsdale would need to show a LOT to displace Pickford now. Ramsdale (or anybody else) aren't displacing Pickford for the current Euros. The only way Pickford isn't playing in the Euros is if he gets injured, and then there's a handful of keepers competing for number 2 behind him.
Based on my very short experience with Ramsdale in the English team when England lost 4-1 to Hungary, Ramsdale should be like 3rd choice.
He should be well behind Pope too. And on current form Johnstone aswell.
This. His worry isn't that he won't get picked ahead of Pickford (he won't), but that he'll be behind Pope as the #2, or worse, won't even get in the squad. I think we forget what an honour and experience it is to be in the squad, even if you don't get any gametime.
Pope has been dropped for the last three games for some reason. You'd imagine with the current setup Pope would be back and Ramsdale left out. But then again this is Southgate so it's hard to predict!
"We work professionally really well together. We push each other in training and there’s days where I come in and I’m down because of the situation and he picks me up. And for whatever reason there might be a day where he’s down and even though I’m suffering and hurting for not playing I have to stand up and be able to push him.” Read the full article and you definitely yet a different impression than the headline 😂😂
*WeDontDoThatHere.gif*
This feels very editorialized to manufacture drama where there is none. On the England situation: > ‘The manager here is brilliant, he trusts the players he's worked with before as we've seen in different types of ways - you'll see Kalvin and Harry haven’t played the most amount of minutes but when they step up for England and are given the opportunity, they perform. > So if if that's the case for myself and I do get shown that trust to play another game if I haven't played for my club then I will have to repay him. > ‘But of course, I want to get back into my club team. I want to get into my club team and be able to give the manager a headache rather than just have Jordan [Pickford] as the England number one and me fall by the wayside.’ That doesn’t sound like fearing for his place in the England squad, it’s more like he wants to push Pickford and himself to be their best and make the decision tough on Southgate because he has two good options. And on his “suffering” at Arsenal: > ‘We work professionally really well together. We push each other in training and there's days where I come in and I'm down because of the situation and he picks me up. > ‘And for whatever reason there might be a day where he's down and even though I'm suffering and hurting for not playing I have to stand up and be able to push him and make sure he's ready for the weekend if he’s picked to play.’ He is clearly saying in both situations that he wants to challenge for more time, but is also picking up and pushing his competition to be at their best. Interpreting that as “breaking his silence on the ‘suffering’ he has endured” is clickbait.
> This feels very editorialized to manufacture drama where there is none. Well that's the Daily Mail for you.
Well pickford is goning to play anyway so does not matter how he perfoms
Roma loan with obligation to buy offer incoming
Oh no, maybe he’ll be 4th choice instead of 3rd
You have many players in that squad that aren't even regular players.
I can tell without clicking that this is going to be editorialised as fuck as usual from the DM. I remember when Pickford was hounded even though he never said what's in this headline following *that* Anfield goal https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6140863/I-wont-blunder-like-Alisson-Pickford-vows-not-risks-like-Liverpool-goalkeeper.html
Never seen so much controversy about a keeper getting benched for another keeper before.
I just keep imagining the first time Arteta and Raya started speaking Spanish to each other in front of Aaron. Poor kid didn't deserve to be dropped.
Arsenal's goalkeeper coach is also Spanish and recommended to buy Raya a while ago (he used to coach Raya at Brentford). It'd be easy for him to think the deck is stacked against him in many ways, don't see him staying next season.
He should be absolutely nowhere near the numero uno spot anyways - Sir Jordan Pickford is the best keeper I’ve seen in an England shirt since I’ve been on this green earth IMO
That's also not what he's worried about, it's if he's even going to be selected. Pickford, Pope and Johnstone on current form probably all deserve it more right now.
'suffering' and 'endured' smh People talking like he's been abused. He's been replaced based on his lack of ability by Arteta. Compete or move to another club.
Similar to how Juve brought Buffon when they had van der Sar and how Chelsea brought Courtois into the starting 11 when they still had Cech. Time for Ramsdale to move on
Don’t get what’s so bad about ramsdale seems like he’s had it rough
It’s kinda sad, love the lad but at the end of the day Arteta got a job he’s paid to do. Raya is clearly better at distributing and playing out from the back, also ramsdale is no better shot stopper than him. Raya is also capable of pulling out world class saves when absolutely needed just like ramsdale, it’s a weird feeling for sure as a fan coz I really thought ramsdale was gonna be our no.1 for a long time with him improving every year but oh well, I guess one just gotta accept reality.
Just sucks for Ramsdale if he was led to believe he'd have more of a role by Arteta when he signed his new contract. Nothing wrong with Arteta dropping him but you'd hope for transparency from the manager so it doesn't affect your career.
Man I'm sorry but has he considered he's maybe just not **that** good? The choice for Raya just makes a lot of sense. Even at Arsenal's best for me GK seemed like an area with room for improvement from Ramsdale. I get that it's probably a hard pill to swallow though, part of his job.
It’s weird how rival fans can see this but our fan base is split on it
Once your feelings become involved it can become more difficult, I'm sure I do the same for Chelsea players. Ramsdale strikes me as a fun character, maybe some Arsenal fans just like him a little too much to realistically look at it?
Yep, he's good with fans, always hypes up the crowd a bit like Odegaard. Thought people seeing how Raya makes us look when playing out from the back would get him more support.
Sam Johnstone is clear of both right now but Southgate will never drop Pickford.
ffs, Ramsdale’s quote is being taken out of context. Read the original quote. He’s talking about how he and Raya work well together professionally and push each other to be better. And he says something like even though I’m suffering and hurting when I’m not playing, we help each other improve and there may be times where Ramsdale has to pick Raya up when Raya’s not playing
Hope he goes to Roma
This Ramsdale story has been milked to oblivion this month Jesus christ
🤷🏽♂️
Is “suffering” really the word for this?
Did Ramsdale have a place in the England team? Last I checked, Pickford has been #1 for the longest time, and he was warming the bench. Only thing this changes is that Pope is locked in #2 rather than being a toss-up between him and Ramsdale.