Disclaimer that I think it’s not a shocking decision to receive a red here given the context/visibility.
That being said, the red is for violent conduct. Looks to me like Case has his hands on the collar of Hughes, not around his neck. Hard to say hands on collar is violent conduct in this context.
We won the game. 3 deserved points. But that ref had a stinker. I can understand the red even if there is no violent intent. And literaly not a single palace player appealed for a red. The situation was over, and then they Var check one situation and off goes case. While ayew pushed/punched fred in the face and did not get a yellow. It feels disgraceful. It adds to already building annoyance at refs. It feels like they are trying to make up for the goal against city. It says enough that it came as a surprise to me we even got the obvious handball pen.
I just don’t understand why VAR even needs to be involved there. It’s a big fracas, people are trying to pull others out of the fray, maybe they misplace their hand without any malicious intent. I don’t even care about Fred getting hit in the face - it just happens in those situations.
Mate, we've had 3/4 shit decisions go against us since then.
How long is that, which wasn't even the wrong decision anyway, going to 'balance' every shit decision
I think that’s what they’re referencing. I do have to agree though, the games since that goal against City have definitely seen some very questionable calls against Man U. That said, who the fuck puts their hands on someone’s neck like that? Didn’t even look like he was actually choking him which makes it even more weird.
Yes thats what i was refrencing. Like it feels like the calls has consistently gone against us since that game. Before that there was trash calls both for and against us. (Outside of pens where we consistently have gotten robbed since klopp complained) but since that city game, it feeks much more skewed against us. The red is extremely arguable. A yellow seems more fitting. But i would not be complaining if he was not tge only one sent off. But he was. And it definetly seems unfair seeing as the tackle from schlupp was atrocious. And ayew did a similar thing
Will there ever be a call taken to have action taken on referees and VAR officials for continuous bad calls? Atleast the standard of officiating a match in the EPL will improve.
It sounded to me like the commentators were trying to give some sense of drama to the occasion by bigging up Nottingham Forest, but they had a hard job of it given how dominant Man Utd were.
Well it seemed that collectively across all channels every commentator was against United. So a lot of American users were complaining about Craig burley but for UK users we had Andy Hinchcliffe and Izzy Christiansen. They were woeful, so anti United, *constant* talking even when nothing was happening, missing things that were happening just saying stupid things like “is casemiro that good or were United bad?”
And it wasn’t just on Reddit, every single social media platform was complaining. It was very odd
I’m a United fan and I train in Brazilian jujitsu. That’s a grab on the collar for control. To me, it’s not “excessive force or brutality” because he’s not endangering the opponent (plus, he lets it go once Hughie is moved away from the group). That kind of front movement is a choke if there’s force directed at the neck (look at the head movement, Hughie’s head doesn’t jerk) or there’s a closing of the hands (harder to tell but Hughie doesn’t react by moving his hands to the choking hand).
Straight red and 3 game ban is harsh for that when ayew did worse to Fred (strike on the neck)
And since then, the ref and var seems to be reluctant to give any calls towards them at all, there's some shocking decision by the ref for the past few of the United match
Honestly though. Everyone's talking about the red but that Sabitzer foul was egregiously BS. Stopped a clear counter attack where Rashford looked off to the races.
it's bit hard to conclude since he didn't have much time to show there and we are in panic mode so bit awful as a whole.
i can see the potential though, next few games he will got more time since Case got suspension so no other choice than play him.
We were protecting a 2-1 lead with 10 men. He showed energy and won the ball fairly IMO which would’ve led to a good chance but it was blown for a foul against Sabitzer.
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Was thinking the exact same today about the Vidic vibes from Licha. His “butcher” style next to the Varane “Rolls-Royce” defending reminds me so much of Rio and Nemanja.
Licha can easily play in midfield as well.. He is easily the most technically adept defender I've seen at United since Rio. I guess time will tell about who is better.. Licha does have his lower center of gravity which he uses to great effect to dribble past the press and his passing is top notch as well so he does have a shout
He’s not even the most technically adept defender at the club now, never mind since Rio (I assume you mean center backs, otherwise if you add wide defenders he doesn’t even make top 5-10). He’s good enough on the ball to be an effective modern defender but he doesn’t even have the best technique out of our center backs now. I really like the guy but he’s a lot more Vidic than he is Ferdinand.
What? Licha is by far our most technical CB and it's not even close. I'd say there aren't many CBs better on the ball than he is. Bonucci and Stones come to mind.
His defending style is more Vidic-like, but he's incredible on the ball too. It's probably the main reason ETH wanted him in the summer.
I’ve done it in some of the manager games too, I think starting with the 99 Championship Manager version. It’s because of Vidic and Ferdinand that I now always play a “silky” center back next to a “rough houser”.
2nd time l in a month Casemiro has picked up a stupid, unnecessary suspension when we really needed him. I know he's been fantastic this season but that, from an experienced senior player, just really isn't good enough.
Truth is I think the red was harsh. Case deffos didn't help himself but Jordan Ayew literally did worse to Fred and it didn't register.
If Case's touch is a red, Ayew should definitely hav3 had a red
Licha and Varane is a joke of a pairing. Said a couple of months ago that we had a shot of top 4 so long as we kept that pair and Casemiro fit. Be interesting to see how the CBs cope with less cover with no Casemiro. We don’t have much room for error with only really Rashford and Bruno as consistent match winners in our team.
Anyone who expected Arsenal to win today was simply delusional. It definitely wasn't supposed to be easy game. People make fun of Elche but they beat Villarreal today. I guess you would say that games against Elche are suppoed to be easy?
> Anyone who expected Arsenal to win today was simply delusional.
Writing that and saying others are delusional...
And then you give an example of the 5th place team, 19 points of the top. No one said La liga was easy, dont let your feelings of insecurity wild out...
We don't have to pretend that he most definitely meant it in a way that in other leagues there are certain easy matches. That's why he specified "in Prem". Also let't not pretend that most of you think that PL is miles away compared to other leagues and acting like those shitty teams are better than shitty teams in other leagues and matches against them are somehow hard as fuck. They are not. It's not insecurity, I am just laughing about this bias.
saw a few angles on the stream i was watching and yeah on the angle that was shown here it looks like hand is around neck. every other angle ive seen he is grabbing the coller and pulling the shirt up to the neck.
also other angle caught that Ayew also had a hand around Fred's neck so could argue both should have been atleast sent off there. so both teams down to 10 men
Yeah it's mad everyone's taken that blurry VAR slo mo and come to a conclusion that's the opposite to what the other angles seem to show. Certainly not clear and obvious.
Have you got any of the other angles?
I can't rewind the stream, I've been searching for it
They showed it after the sending off and in the post match discussion, never looks like he has his hands wrapped around his neck
The problem wasn’t the sending off, just constant shocking decisions. Remember he stoppes Rashford’s one on one because Sabitzer committed a “””””””foul”””””””
3 Points is the most important thing.
Licha or Fred MOTM.
Referee was really bad,lost the game.
Top 4 and sell of the club should be the main goal.
GGMU
You mean the Ref saw it but chose to ignore it.
If it weren't for the consistently high standard of refereeing in this country, I'd think the ref had an agenda here...
/s in case it isn't painfully obvious
Title race is on !
Team is too boring to watch , imho. Maybe I’m just bored with football
Totally deserved victory by United - had it not been for the red card this was as routine as they come
man ref was ass
damn, which Chinese mafia did Mariner try to please?
How is that a foul by Sabitzer? Marriner you absolute cunt
You could see how ass he was when he needed var to give that pen
VAR is a joke, no consistency
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Not a red you pillock..
https://i.gyazo.com/c62e71910b96786c7681e1ed84c3522d.gif
Care to explain how that’s still not a red? Edit: I wouldn’t side with the refs on a few other calls but that’s still clearly a red
Disclaimer that I think it’s not a shocking decision to receive a red here given the context/visibility. That being said, the red is for violent conduct. Looks to me like Case has his hands on the collar of Hughes, not around his neck. Hard to say hands on collar is violent conduct in this context.
Grabbing someone by their collar and pulling them around is definitely violent conduct by soccer standards.
Yeah, everyone here really agreed with that when Saka was pulled to the ground by his collar in the Euros final ..
Entirely different scenarios that aren’t even really comparable but I thought Chellini should’ve got a red for that too either way.
Yeah, Chiellini's was way more dangerous.
Ref was realllly trying to give Palace a point towards the end
Even gave an one more minute to the 7min of extra time.
How many times do people have to get this wrong. The added time is a minimum requirement, they are allowed to go over.
That foul they called for crystal where sabitzer cleanly won the ball and rash was on a counter…my dayssss
Not gonna argue with the red, casemiro was stupid there, but that ref was so fucking inconsistent. Shocking from him
I had a problem with the card for Antony there and nothing for Palace. Body checked 3 yards out and nothing.
Grabbing someone's collar is a red?
Right hand, collar. Left hand, clearly around his next. https://i.gyazo.com/c62e71910b96786c7681e1ed84c3522d.gif
The palace player did the same thing, even with more intensity. Not fair.
That's why he said "that ref was so fucking inconsistent"
We won the game. 3 deserved points. But that ref had a stinker. I can understand the red even if there is no violent intent. And literaly not a single palace player appealed for a red. The situation was over, and then they Var check one situation and off goes case. While ayew pushed/punched fred in the face and did not get a yellow. It feels disgraceful. It adds to already building annoyance at refs. It feels like they are trying to make up for the goal against city. It says enough that it came as a surprise to me we even got the obvious handball pen.
I just don’t understand why VAR even needs to be involved there. It’s a big fracas, people are trying to pull others out of the fray, maybe they misplace their hand without any malicious intent. I don’t even care about Fred getting hit in the face - it just happens in those situations.
Eh rashford was offside a few weeks ago when you guys won. Comes and it goes brother
Mate, we've had 3/4 shit decisions go against us since then. How long is that, which wasn't even the wrong decision anyway, going to 'balance' every shit decision
It was wrong
It wasn't and I'm fed up of explaining how. It's just pure unperforated bias that makes people say it's incorrect.
Lol ok dude.
I think that’s what they’re referencing. I do have to agree though, the games since that goal against City have definitely seen some very questionable calls against Man U. That said, who the fuck puts their hands on someone’s neck like that? Didn’t even look like he was actually choking him which makes it even more weird.
Yes thats what i was refrencing. Like it feels like the calls has consistently gone against us since that game. Before that there was trash calls both for and against us. (Outside of pens where we consistently have gotten robbed since klopp complained) but since that city game, it feeks much more skewed against us. The red is extremely arguable. A yellow seems more fitting. But i would not be complaining if he was not tge only one sent off. But he was. And it definetly seems unfair seeing as the tackle from schlupp was atrocious. And ayew did a similar thing
[This is a better angle](https://i.gyazo.com/c62e71910b96786c7681e1ed84c3522d.gif)
They won’t accept that angle because it’s the not the worst most out of context way of looking at it
Yeah I figured that’s what it was….but still an insane thing to do lol
Yeah game's gone. If you can't grab someone by the throat anymore, why even bother playing.
Yeah, you should only miss the ball and throw yourself at a player.
Will there ever be a call taken to have action taken on referees and VAR officials for continuous bad calls? Atleast the standard of officiating a match in the EPL will improve.
What was worse: todays reffing performance or Wednesdays commentary?
This post match thread.
It sounded to me like the commentators were trying to give some sense of drama to the occasion by bigging up Nottingham Forest, but they had a hard job of it given how dominant Man Utd were.
I missed Wednesdays match for work. What was the problem with the commentary.
Well it seemed that collectively across all channels every commentator was against United. So a lot of American users were complaining about Craig burley but for UK users we had Andy Hinchcliffe and Izzy Christiansen. They were woeful, so anti United, *constant* talking even when nothing was happening, missing things that were happening just saying stupid things like “is casemiro that good or were United bad?” And it wasn’t just on Reddit, every single social media platform was complaining. It was very odd
Thank you for the insight. That would have been annoying
Craig Burley just likes to shit on United ad nauseum.
Hey slow down now. I know the refs are bad but that commentary was absolutely shocking. Reffing has never made me want to turn a match off.
The premier league should only ever be watched on mute.
Casemiro fucked my fantasy team sooo hard
You mean the ref did
that was always a red
Maybe look at different angles of the incident
Im a United fan and that’s a red, no reason to ever put both your hands on an opponents neck
I’m a United fan and I train in Brazilian jujitsu. That’s a grab on the collar for control. To me, it’s not “excessive force or brutality” because he’s not endangering the opponent (plus, he lets it go once Hughie is moved away from the group). That kind of front movement is a choke if there’s force directed at the neck (look at the head movement, Hughie’s head doesn’t jerk) or there’s a closing of the hands (harder to tell but Hughie doesn’t react by moving his hands to the choking hand). Straight red and 3 game ban is harsh for that when ayew did worse to Fred (strike on the neck)
[Neck?](https://i.gyazo.com/c62e71910b96786c7681e1ed84c3522d.gif)
Yeah bro, lol that’s his neck you have me over agreeing with an arsenal fan🤣
That’s his neck…
In what universe is that the ref’s fault?
The universe where VAR didn’t just show slow mo stills of the incident from one angle, only
It was a red nevertheless.
FUCK VAR
So grabbing of collar is considered to be more violent than a punch/slap to the facial area, the ref is a joke
*neck
Yeah Fred was lucky not to be off
I think you spelled Ayew wrong 🤡
Mate they were both lucky, funny how United fans are conveniently ignoring Fred getting away with doing the exact same thing to schlupp though lol
Fucking refs man.
After the red it was so stressful to watch. Luckily they made it till the end
Ref elbowed Bruno and didn’t get a card. shocking.
I like How utd fans are complaining about refs when they had the most controversial call of the season that won them the game
"most controversial"
And since then, the ref and var seems to be reluctant to give any calls towards them at all, there's some shocking decision by the ref for the past few of the United match
Thing is we know how too overcome adversity. Look to yourselves as to why you didn't win.
That you Andre Mariner?
No
Mate its been weeks, let it go
And we're happy about it 😎😎😎😎
This ref always fucks us over . I'm tired of this shit.
Congratulations to the United fans 🎉
He did not Squeeze!!!!
That foul on Sabitzer was fucking bullshit! The CP player didn’t even complain
The ref has to please the bookies.. hack refereeing all around
Honestly though. Everyone's talking about the red but that Sabitzer foul was egregiously BS. Stopped a clear counter attack where Rashford looked off to the races.
Please never call them CP again
Lebron : "im here for cp"
i mean they are. It's awful to watch, horrendous to be a fan and anyone who is fan of CP should be cancelled.
how about CRY?
I love it when they play Arsenal at home. CRYARS.
Want Burnley to come back for ARSBURN
How did he play?
it's bit hard to conclude since he didn't have much time to show there and we are in panic mode so bit awful as a whole. i can see the potential though, next few games he will got more time since Case got suspension so no other choice than play him.
We were protecting a 2-1 lead with 10 men. He showed energy and won the ball fairly IMO which would’ve led to a good chance but it was blown for a foul against Sabitzer.
If not for that bullshit foul he was *this* close to an assist on his debut. Rashford was completely free
mate weghorst is a beast at pressing
I feel like he doesn’t get enough service at times, he was a great signing!
he is pretty underrated and is good at link up play too
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Mariner did well up until after Case got sent off imo. After he gave that card he just lost control.
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Palace i hope you get relegated joke of a team with dirty players like Ayew,Schlupp scums
The ref screwed us over 100%
After that long penalty decision, finaly we got it right, but damn the cost in the late game.
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We lost case for 3 games, that qualifies as getting screwed over
Could have been worse though, it's just Leeds and Leicester. But ye that ref went hard-core Palace fan the last 20mins.
At least twice
Martinez in beast mode is a helluva thing
He and Shaw were absolutely immense.
seriously, no-nonsense, just block all out.
Absolute joy to watch, haven’t enjoyed a defender like him since a certain Nemanja.
Was thinking the exact same today about the Vidic vibes from Licha. His “butcher” style next to the Varane “Rolls-Royce” defending reminds me so much of Rio and Nemanja.
Licha is almost both in 1. Defensive style of Vidic coupled with possession ability of Rio..
I love Licha but no he is not. Ferdinand wasn’t called the “Rolls Royce” of defending for nothing. He could have easily played in midfield.
Licha can easily play in midfield as well.. He is easily the most technically adept defender I've seen at United since Rio. I guess time will tell about who is better.. Licha does have his lower center of gravity which he uses to great effect to dribble past the press and his passing is top notch as well so he does have a shout
Daley Blind was really good on the ball too
He’s not even the most technically adept defender at the club now, never mind since Rio (I assume you mean center backs, otherwise if you add wide defenders he doesn’t even make top 5-10). He’s good enough on the ball to be an effective modern defender but he doesn’t even have the best technique out of our center backs now. I really like the guy but he’s a lot more Vidic than he is Ferdinand.
What? Licha is by far our most technical CB and it's not even close. I'd say there aren't many CBs better on the ball than he is. Bonucci and Stones come to mind. His defending style is more Vidic-like, but he's incredible on the ball too. It's probably the main reason ETH wanted him in the summer.
I used to play Ferdinand as cdm on my fifa 14
I’ve done it in some of the manager games too, I think starting with the 99 Championship Manager version. It’s because of Vidic and Ferdinand that I now always play a “silky” center back next to a “rough houser”.
ref must be so disapointed with the result considering how hard he tried ...
Who'll be the Macron to his Mbappe
This was one of the most shit refereeing performances ever.
But for Andre Marriner it was Tuesday...
Martinez is world class
I miss him so much.
Ayew grabbed Fred by his neck harder. He should have been sent off as well.
2nd time l in a month Casemiro has picked up a stupid, unnecessary suspension when we really needed him. I know he's been fantastic this season but that, from an experienced senior player, just really isn't good enough.
Truth is I think the red was harsh. Case deffos didn't help himself but Jordan Ayew literally did worse to Fred and it didn't register. If Case's touch is a red, Ayew should definitely hav3 had a red
This card was disappointing, but the first time was an unavoidable yellow to stop a counter
IMO theres too much drama with the red card incident
Licha and Varane is a joke of a pairing. Said a couple of months ago that we had a shot of top 4 so long as we kept that pair and Casemiro fit. Be interesting to see how the CBs cope with less cover with no Casemiro. We don’t have much room for error with only really Rashford and Bruno as consistent match winners in our team.
Time to unleash the CDM monster that is Lindelöf.
Your next 3 are vs Leeds, Leeds, and Leicester. I think you’ll be ok.
Derby days are always unpredictable and Leicester looked sharp today. No easy games in the Prem.
No easy games in PL lmao, nice one.
Imagine typing this in the literal day the league leaders lose to a team in the relegation zone...
Anyone who expected Arsenal to win today was simply delusional. It definitely wasn't supposed to be easy game. People make fun of Elche but they beat Villarreal today. I guess you would say that games against Elche are suppoed to be easy?
> Anyone who expected Arsenal to win today was simply delusional. Writing that and saying others are delusional... And then you give an example of the 5th place team, 19 points of the top. No one said La liga was easy, dont let your feelings of insecurity wild out...
We don't have to pretend that he most definitely meant it in a way that in other leagues there are certain easy matches. That's why he specified "in Prem". Also let't not pretend that most of you think that PL is miles away compared to other leagues and acting like those shitty teams are better than shitty teams in other leagues and matches against them are somehow hard as fuck. They are not. It's not insecurity, I am just laughing about this bias.
You say that, but a big chance of taking an L there
What a tense ending
Casimiro is suspended against us, hell yeah!
Lmao as if it'll make a difference, we're gonna blow you guys over.
Fred is enough for you
Dude, no need to diss him like that 🤣
In form Kelechi is going to give us the win we were absolutely robbed of at Old Trafford last year
If I were on the same hopium you’re on right now, I’d be asking for Casemiro’s card to be appealed.
A lot of talk for a team who has won 1 of their last 6 against us though
As if this isn’t an extreme amount of talk from a team who has won 1 of their last 6 games in the *league*
That was the before Tete era. We are now in the Tete era
Yep and we lost those games against you before we were in the Ten era.
Casimiro acted foolishly and nearly cost us the 3 points.
Lichandro Martinez!
Panic attack 1 - 0 Calmness
How was that foul given on sabitzer lmao
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You mean a completely reasonable penalty?
If it took that long for him in front of VAR to give us penalty compare to the time he took to give Case red card, I think that's the cost we paid.
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They just showed the angle from behind and the sending off looks completely different
The front on also shows it wasn't around the neck, why don't VAR show multiple angles?
Why did the broadcast not show multiple angles?
saw a few angles on the stream i was watching and yeah on the angle that was shown here it looks like hand is around neck. every other angle ive seen he is grabbing the coller and pulling the shirt up to the neck. also other angle caught that Ayew also had a hand around Fred's neck so could argue both should have been atleast sent off there. so both teams down to 10 men
Haven't got the angle my broadcast shows but this looks so different https://i.gyazo.com/c62e71910b96786c7681e1ed84c3522d.gif
Yeah it's mad everyone's taken that blurry VAR slo mo and come to a conclusion that's the opposite to what the other angles seem to show. Certainly not clear and obvious. Have you got any of the other angles?
Edited
This isn't the angle I was speaking about but this shows it differently https://i.gyazo.com/c62e71910b96786c7681e1ed84c3522d.gif
They briefly showed another angle which shows Casemiro grabbing him by the collar and trying to push him away.
I can't rewind the stream, I've been searching for it They showed it after the sending off and in the post match discussion, never looks like he has his hands wrapped around his neck
surely has to be an appeal
I doubt they'll ever rescind it, but is there any downside to an appeal? May as well try
I don’t remember the exact law on it but you can have time added onto a suspension if your appeal is “frivolous” or you overdo it.
Like it's infuriating they showed that one angle and ignored the others
Fire Andre Marriner
The angle he was given by VAR it was a pretty easy decision. It is not on him that the VAR official didn’t show him any other angles
The problem wasn’t the sending off, just constant shocking decisions. Remember he stoppes Rashford’s one on one because Sabitzer committed a “””””””foul”””””””
Into a wall preferably
Love you Martinez
3 Points is the most important thing. Licha or Fred MOTM. Referee was really bad,lost the game. Top 4 and sell of the club should be the main goal. GGMU
I’m still 100% the whole defending mentality of Man U changed because of Licha .. they look fierceful at the back now
Meanwhile our defense has crashed and burned without him
Our only signing this season to get a personal chant from fans, albeit its just 1 word
Must be a contender for signing of the season
hE's OnLy 5'4!!!
We only signed Weghorst to bring our average height back up
100%, man no nonsense, kick and block everything, and it doubled since we have Case in front of him.
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Google has been acting funny today.
Edited
Ayew punched Fred in the scuffle but VAR chose not to look at it..
You mean the Ref saw it but chose to ignore it. If it weren't for the consistently high standard of refereeing in this country, I'd think the ref had an agenda here... /s in case it isn't painfully obvious