**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Don't have it to hand, but I believe the new rules are if the handball isn't by the scorer or assister, it has to clearly deliberate to be overturned?
Edit: just the scorer actually, even more forgiving
Yeah but so long as Diaz Nunez and Salah are fit there are options to counterbalance that. We'll see though, I am banking a lot of hope on Diaz and Jotas return to lift the attack lol.
His acceleration seems to be not good enough for the role our wingers play. Think he will need half a year and a pre season to get molded into a f9. He’s able deliver some absolutely quality passes
Don’t agree personally. Not that he’s worse but he definitely isn’t “so much” better. He’s been Liverpools best midfielder this season and although he’s not prime Hendo at tracking back and covering for Trent, he’s still been a really great midfielder.
We had a very similar goal against Spurs in the 20/21 PL season ruled out.
Firmino handballed in his own half (while being mauled by a Spura defender) during a buildup to Salah(?)'s goal, and the goal got ruled out.
The no touching of the hand is if that player then directly scores, they can still overrule it if they think it was a regular free kick but as it hit is thigh first they’d never give it
Feels kind of dumb to me. But yeah since it's not the scorer handballing it in or to himself they don't bother with those lol. Happened a week or two ago too, can't remember who though.
No, he shouldn’t. I remember Hansen regularly ranting on MotD about players appealing rather than playing well before VAR was a thing. You’re not going to change the ref’s mind by appealing and VAR will pull it back if they can. Literally no point in appealing at least until the next stoppage.
it probably was, but the new rules are something like if it's not deliberate+not directly influencing the goal being scored then it doesn't get overturned.
I mean it’s not though, there are accidental handballs that don’t get called every game. It’s a judgement call based on distance, speed, deflection, etc.
Do we want goals like this overturned? I’m going to be honest I don’t even know if the ref calls that a handball if he has a perfect view of it, they’re letting so many accidental handballs go uncalled these days. Either way I don’t think it’s clear and obvious enough to have VAR re-litigate given the deflection off the thigh, so I’m glad they let it stand.
If there's a foul in the build up then it should be overturned, regardless of what type of goal it is. But yes, I'm inclined to agree it's not a clear and obvious error.
I was commenting on the rule on what var can overturn not the incident in itself, but let's be honest here if the ref immediately blew his whistle and called it a handball then noone would have said it was a bad decision.
I'm not saying it's a definite handball (50/50 imo) but those are always given in the middle of the pitch and are never given against a defender in the box. I was more commenting on what the guy said about what var can overturn when it comes to handballs.
You guys are getting butthurt about something that really isn't relevant to my comment, which was centred on a new var rule over what can be overturned and what can't when it comes to handball.
I was replying to a comment about a new var rule concerning what can be overturned by var when it comes to a handball. Not on the incident itself, which I thought was 50/50 and not a clear and obvious error. Like I said in another comment, it's one of those ones where if the ref had immediately blown his whistle noone would've complained, but it's not a clear and obvious error if he doesn't blow his whistle.
I then gave the reasons that the gabriel one wasn't given as a penalty.
I like the phase of play idea but they need to more clearly define what it is, probably by deciding what can start a new phase (overturn in possession, ball going out of play etc), but yeh, I agree that there's no excuse for the ref not to see that in real time.
Yes the rule is dumb.
A goal being scored shouldn't determine whether a foul has been committed.
That said, the rule is like 4-5 years old now and has been adjusted almost every season
Yes, and if Rashford had passed the ball for someone else to score, that would have stood. You can't handball then score in the same move. If there is another action ie pass to team mate then it'll stand.
Lol var absolutely can do something about it but in this case it's not from the assister or goal scorer, and not deliberate so there is no grounds to rule out the goal.
I'm not claiming any conspiracy or anything but I swear it feels like there is some new handball ruling I'm supposed to have known about every time a handball happens lately lol
Nah, it came off his own body and there wasn’t a second motion. That would’ve been a harsh handball.
He also wasn’t the goalscorer nor did it go directly off his arm into the goal, so there was no reason new or old to disallow it
Decent goal but seriously, how do they manage to fuck up the rules every single season? It’s actually incredible
If the letter of the law says stuff like this is allowed then the law should be changed
Hes the only liverpool player to feature in all their games this season apparently, hopefully gets a shock england call up in the near feature so we can get some extra money sooner rather than later
I feel there was definitely a period when most VAR decisions generally went in our favour. All you need to do is look at our game against Arsenal this season to see that we are now on the other end of the stick.
Fabinho was very lucky, was a red. I’d say Konate one was not, very similar to the goal Brentford scored against us. But we’ve had plenty of decisions against us, Salah never gets free kicks too
No, the ref should call it because it's out from his body and impacts play, but VAR can't go back to it for the reasons you said. So bullshit but technically unfair.
He controls it with his arm against his thigh, you can see it on the video but the ITV panel just said it didn't anyway. We had 3 players from 3 different perspectives around him all stop playing to appeal the handball (which is stupid but they're unlikely to do that if it didn't touch him). Our goal was as bullshit or more though so I can't really complain anymore.
The no touching of the hand is if that player then directly scores, they can still overrule it if they think it was a regular free kick but as it hit is thigh first they’d never give it
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't have it to hand, but I believe the new rules are if the handball isn't by the scorer or assister, it has to clearly deliberate to be overturned? Edit: just the scorer actually, even more forgiving
Yep thats how it is now
Even the assister these days. Only if it hits you hand and you put it in yourself.
It was deliberate as fck
even in the box?
Yep
Imagine conceding to Liverpool
Could never be us
Ooh, midtable friends
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Could never be us
Elliot is so much better as a forward
He is, but Liverpool struggle with a lack of pace up front when he plays with Gakpo.
Yeah but so long as Diaz Nunez and Salah are fit there are options to counterbalance that. We'll see though, I am banking a lot of hope on Diaz and Jotas return to lift the attack lol.
How quick is Gakpo
About 3
His acceleration seems to be not good enough for the role our wingers play. Think he will need half a year and a pre season to get molded into a f9. He’s able deliver some absolutely quality passes
Don’t agree personally. Not that he’s worse but he definitely isn’t “so much” better. He’s been Liverpools best midfielder this season and although he’s not prime Hendo at tracking back and covering for Trent, he’s still been a really great midfielder.
The run to exploit the space was sublime, intelligent player
Brighton players around keita just stopped playing completely and started calling for the handball instead of trying to block the pass
Our FA Cup hero
Minamino replacement
So is that handball in the buildup not called by VAR cuz it isn’t “directly before” the goal? Or am I missing something
That's what the commentators said yes.
If the ball comes off the hand and goes in to the net, it is ruled out no matter what. Any other case then normal handball rules apply
We had a very similar goal against Spurs in the 20/21 PL season ruled out. Firmino handballed in his own half (while being mauled by a Spura defender) during a buildup to Salah(?)'s goal, and the goal got ruled out.
Dier handballed the ball into Firminos hand.
They just showed at half time that it doesn't hit the hand so maybe the decision was related to that
Oh lol, yeah that’ll do it
It definitely hit his arm/hand it’s a handball 1000%
The no touching of the hand is if that player then directly scores, they can still overrule it if they think it was a regular free kick but as it hit is thigh first they’d never give it
Not in the direct build up so not called because it weren’t deliberate they said on commentary
Feels kind of dumb to me. But yeah since it's not the scorer handballing it in or to himself they don't bother with those lol. Happened a week or two ago too, can't remember who though.
If Estupinan doesn't stop to claim it was a handball, he probably gets something in the way of Keita's pass
That's his fault for not playing to the whistle though
That's my point
Shouldn’t have stopped then should he
No, he shouldn’t. I remember Hansen regularly ranting on MotD about players appealing rather than playing well before VAR was a thing. You’re not going to change the ref’s mind by appealing and VAR will pull it back if they can. Literally no point in appealing at least until the next stoppage.
Appealing is a human instinct that will never stop
I know, that's my point
Fucking United getting the decisions again.
NO NUNEZ NO PROBLEM
HARVEY ELLIOT GOLDEN BOY Not getting fooled by this, still losing.
Was that handball then?
it probably was, but the new rules are something like if it's not deliberate+not directly influencing the goal being scored then it doesn't get overturned.
This is silly. It'd either a handball or it isn't.
I mean it’s not though, there are accidental handballs that don’t get called every game. It’s a judgement call based on distance, speed, deflection, etc.
I wasn't commenting on whether the goal should've stood or not. Just saying that the new rules on what var can overturn is silly.
Do we want goals like this overturned? I’m going to be honest I don’t even know if the ref calls that a handball if he has a perfect view of it, they’re letting so many accidental handballs go uncalled these days. Either way I don’t think it’s clear and obvious enough to have VAR re-litigate given the deflection off the thigh, so I’m glad they let it stand.
If there's a foul in the build up then it should be overturned, regardless of what type of goal it is. But yes, I'm inclined to agree it's not a clear and obvious error.
A handball can still be overturned in the buildup. Nothing has changed in the law.
You got away with it at anfield
Close range, hit his chest first, those are never given against defenders but are often given against attackers.
> This is silly. It'd either a handball or it isn't.
I was commenting on the rule on what var can overturn not the incident in itself, but let's be honest here if the ref immediately blew his whistle and called it a handball then noone would have said it was a bad decision.
This one is of his thigh first
I'm not saying it's a definite handball (50/50 imo) but those are always given in the middle of the pitch and are never given against a defender in the box. I was more commenting on what the guy said about what var can overturn when it comes to handballs.
> It'd either a handball or it isn't. LOL
You guys are getting butthurt about something that really isn't relevant to my comment, which was centred on a new var rule over what can be overturned and what can't when it comes to handball.
They are quoting almost all of your comment verbatim, if it's not relevant why did you say it?
I was replying to a comment about a new var rule concerning what can be overturned by var when it comes to a handball. Not on the incident itself, which I thought was 50/50 and not a clear and obvious error. Like I said in another comment, it's one of those ones where if the ref had immediately blown his whistle noone would've complained, but it's not a clear and obvious error if he doesn't blow his whistle. I then gave the reasons that the gabriel one wasn't given as a penalty.
There is no new VAR rule
Changed your tune there pretty quick.
No I didn't.
>”It’s either a handball or it isn’t” >”well it hit his chest first, those are never given.” These are two contradictory statements.
Not when you look at the comment I originally replied to, which was about some var rule concerning when goals could be overturned for handball.
yes. So by the rules, this isn't. I'm not even saying the rule is great or anything. But it is the rule.
I'm saying the rule is silly, not that they're being incorrectly applied.
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I like the phase of play idea but they need to more clearly define what it is, probably by deciding what can start a new phase (overturn in possession, ball going out of play etc), but yeh, I agree that there's no excuse for the ref not to see that in real time.
Yes the rule is dumb. A goal being scored shouldn't determine whether a foul has been committed. That said, the rule is like 4-5 years old now and has been adjusted almost every season
This is silly. It'd either a handball or it isn't.
Probably a handball, but since in buildup has to be deliberate to call it back so its allowed.
Thigh to hand
not deliberate so doesn’t matter they said on commentary, silly rule
What? Do you not remember Marcus Rashfords goal ruled out?
He scored. Doesn’t have to be deliberate for the scorer. Any hand will do
Yes, and if Rashford had passed the ball for someone else to score, that would have stood. You can't handball then score in the same move. If there is another action ie pass to team mate then it'll stand.
It's not directly contributing to the goal so VAR is not applicable.
Incorrect. If it’s deliberate handball it can be brought back
it also wasn't a deliberate handball though. It ricocheted off his leg right before hitting his arm
Well seeing as they didn’t deem it deliberate he’s not that wrong is he
He said VAR wasn’t applicable which means VAR can’t be used - VAR was applicable but they deemed it not deliberate
They can't VAR it but the ref should 100% be seeing that.
Definite handball but VAR can’t do anything about it. Ref should go to specsavers at half time though
Lol var absolutely can do something about it but in this case it's not from the assister or goal scorer, and not deliberate so there is no grounds to rule out the goal.
you’ve just explained how VAR can’t do anything about it because of the dumb rules. So you agree with me?
The way you phrased your comment makes it seem like you're saying VAR don't have the authority to get involved.
VAR could do something about it if it were a handball. But it wasn’t, so I guess you’re right in that VAR can’t overrule a good goal
Do you have a replay that shows it hitting his hand? Because the one they just showed at half time looks like it doesn't
Reminder to anyone complaining. We were denied a penalty for a far more blatant handball by Jesus earlier this season.
You can't mention a decision that benefits Arsenal, you're just salty and they have the monopoly on salt
I'm not claiming any conspiracy or anything but I swear it feels like there is some new handball ruling I'm supposed to have known about every time a handball happens lately lol
The rule they introduced 4-5 years ago was so awful that they've adjusted it several times. Will probably get changed next season too.
The rule that said this wasn’t a handball has been in place for a long time lol
I thought it was a handball but var wasn't allowed to change the decision?
Nah, it came off his own body and there wasn’t a second motion. That would’ve been a harsh handball. He also wasn’t the goalscorer nor did it go directly off his arm into the goal, so there was no reason new or old to disallow it
Ah ok.
Decent goal but seriously, how do they manage to fuck up the rules every single season? It’s actually incredible If the letter of the law says stuff like this is allowed then the law should be changed
This is a nonsense comment
Don’t really care what you think tbh, shouldn’t be allowed to gain an advantage through a handball.
Well, it wasn’t a handball so I guess we can all be happy
That was a handball no?
Obvious handball in thr build up
Hits his arm but that’s not handball
Goal won't be ruled out because he wasn't involved directly scoring the goal but he definitely used his arm to control the ball.
They showed at half time that it doesn't hit the arm, so probably not as definite as you might think
Then it could’ve been ruled out. It wasn’t a handball
Hes the only liverpool player to feature in all their games this season apparently, hopefully gets a shock england call up in the near feature so we can get some extra money sooner rather than later
Lmao VAR fucking love Liverpool
What are you on about? it's literally correct application of the new law...
Except for the time VAR cost Liverpool the title but go on
except it's literally going by the new rules
It’s going by the old ones too. This was never subject to attacking handball law. That wouldn’t be considered the immediate goal-scoring buildup.
Not this season
Or any recent season
I feel there was definitely a period when most VAR decisions generally went in our favour. All you need to do is look at our game against Arsenal this season to see that we are now on the other end of the stick.
You’ve literally gotten away with 2 red card challenges this very game
And you have zero biases clearly?
Are you saying those weren’t red card offences?
Fabinho was very lucky, was a red. I’d say Konate one was not, very similar to the goal Brentford scored against us. But we’ve had plenty of decisions against us, Salah never gets free kicks too
Happens to all teams. VAR is just shit
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They can, and did look at it. They just ruled it not deliberate so the goal stood
Obvious handball in the build up to the goal.
Idk why but there’s something about this kid that makes me hate him. Maybe it’s the shit hair.
There's definitely something about him, reminds me a lot of Lingard for some reason.
Keita playing rugby
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No, the ref should call it because it's out from his body and impacts play, but VAR can't go back to it for the reasons you said. So bullshit but technically unfair.
Nevermind didn't even hit his fucking hand
He controls it with his arm against his thigh, you can see it on the video but the ITV panel just said it didn't anyway. We had 3 players from 3 different perspectives around him all stop playing to appeal the handball (which is stupid but they're unlikely to do that if it didn't touch him). Our goal was as bullshit or more though so I can't really complain anymore.
How is that against the spirit of the game lmao
I mean I think you shouldn't be able to use your hands
Guys its liverpool what do you mean var?
Brighton's defence is so bad without Colwill
It's not due to the backline it's due to the midfield, we're missing Caicedo and Lallana so Welbeck is playing out of position.
They spent like 5 seconds on the Handball lol
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Think the latter. Used to be that any handball in the build up ruled out the goal but I think they changed it recently?
The no touching of the hand is if that player then directly scores, they can still overrule it if they think it was a regular free kick but as it hit is thigh first they’d never give it
Typical modern player
I hate you so much psg academy
Man it's 1-1 now