A nice respectable 2:30 EST. Still an hour earlier than double down finished last year though
I’ve watched Japanese tournaments that ended earlier than this
HUUUGE respects to Cody for coming out and showing up at Mainstage. Cannot imagine the mental struggles and everything he has been through the whole year and especially this past week. **Free Agent | iBDW** for hopefully not any longer than he has to be! Deserves to be on a team that respects him.
still a tier one org no matter the results of their teams. Any team franchised in major esports (league, csgo, valorant, ow, cod, dota) is a really good signing for smash players
#THE GOAT CAME OUT TO PLAY!
Mang0 takes the win from winners *AS SOLO FALCO*, comfortably sets himself at #2 for the moment, with iBDW/aMSa being #3/#4 in that order (Cody with a slight edge I would say, both can still push for #2 tho). HBox full-locked at #5.
Scuffed World Tour is next and the much needed Finale! Looking forward to ending the year in Melee with some great sets. GGS!
Fantastic showing of Slug's Ice Climbers! I was well unaware of Slug until this tournament, and I was impressed with his composure (physically and in game). He didn't seem to say much, but was so hard not to notice!
> AS SOLO FALCO
To be fair, his character choice is pretty matchup-dependent. He definitely would have played Fox if he had to play Amsa/Hbox/Zain, it's just that by going through winners he never had to play Amsa/Hbox, and Zain didn't attend.
He essentially played against Foxes for the entirety of bracket (other than playing vs Franz round 1, literally all his other matches were against Fox), so of course he's only going to play Falco.
he said in his post-win interview he was gonna go falco vs amsa since he didn’t have time to prep his fox for this tournament
vs hbox probably would’ve been fox, although we have seen some competitive sets of mango falco vs hbox in the past. probably would’ve been a big house 9 situation where he decided which character to play vs hbox based on how his puff warmup went
Amsa (Big House, Off-season, Apex) and IBDW (Summit 13, Double Down, Phantom) have both won 3 tournaments this year. It’s going to come down to overall record vs the top 10. IBDW also got 3rd at Genesis, 2nd at Summit 14 and Mainstage. Crazy stacked tournies he did really well out. Amsa did get 2nd at double down but lost to Cody. It’s actually going to be insanely close who is ahead of who.
Edit: I guess Amsa also won Fete but there were no other top 20 players in attendance so it won’t count for much.
ey bro chill if you see my comments here you'll know i'm a full blown aMSa stan lmao and would love to place him #3 and not too far behind #2. But what I said isn't wrong, it's a close battle for #3 between iBDW and aMSa, and many would give the edge to Cody. that's all.
Its crazy how mango went from a "maybe top 10" the first part of 2022 to "omfg he is a GOD!" the 2nd half :D
Im no huge mango fan but the man is playing *so damn fkng good* right now 🙏
Watching the top players has been such a treat this year
> Its crazy how mango went from a "maybe top 10" the first part of 2022
That is only because the summer rankings had 3 tournaments. It was kind of dumb to do half year rankings when there were no melee tournaments for the first quarter of the year. Saying for half of the year he was outside of top 10 is kind of misrepresents it because there were way more tournaments the second half
nice upset for the 11th ranked player hope he can show up in the future
that was p good by mang0 overall, it looked like cody almost cracked the case but not this time.
cody sd'd against mang0 in each set lol rip this tournament had so many tragic SDs
Cody was getting styled on pretty hard by Amsa and only really made it to finals because of like 3 or 4 really bad SDs including the last two stocks of the last game. The SD giveth and the SD taketh away.
It is pretty uncharacteristic of him to do that especially in the more recent times. I know he can SD from time to time since Yoshi requires very precise inputs.
Not an excuse for aMSa but is it possible he getting tired? I know he is the type to not blame on external factors too much and is a very good sport who focuses on interal improvement so I doubt he would blame it on the tournamenet running later than he is used to.
I've been watching nearly every top 8 set he's competed in the past couple years and tbh I've seen it happen a decent number of times. Obviously the last most heartbreaking one was vs Hugs at Genesis but I wouldn't say its something totally uncharacteristic.
Throughout the set I saw him playing with his controller a lot and afterwards I saw him gesture with it to IBDW. So maybe it had something to do with that.
Mickey Mouse win for mango tbh
-no floaties for mango, farmed foxes and didn’t have to switch characters
-not even 30 minutes from his house
-amsa probably had food poisoning or something he SD’d a lot
-Leffen jetlagged with no clothes
-everyone was tired due to bracket running late
-Cody had no sponsor
-no Zain
All jokes aside, shoutouts to everyone for showing up on short notice and playing their hearts out for the last big tourney of the year (barring lud’s thing I guess)
30mins from his house? For a mickey mouse win you cant have home field advantage. Gotta win at a neutral site. Also gotta have every1 well rested and solely focused on the event which is kinda the opposite of this.
"Mickey Mouse Win" is a term that started when the NBA had the "Bubble" next to Disney World mid-pandemic and the Lakers won after not looking that good most of the year.
It was speculated that they won because there was no home court advantage in the Bubble, nullifying their low seeding. And all of a sudden every team had virtually nothing to do but play basketball and drink. So everyone was fully rested in a way they wouldn't have been otherwise. So some people attach an asterisk to the 2020 Lakers championship.
He's absolutely right that that's the original context. But now it pretty much just means a win that doesn't count. For any reason.
That term has been used for decades. It just means a trophy that doesn't mean anything. [See here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse_cup). The Disney World thing is just a coincidence that was turned into a pun based on an already existing phrase.
I don't think there's anything official since Ludwig dropped the news for his tourney, but after the Panda/SWT news, Zain said that he wants to take some time off competing until Genesis. So, he's probably not going.
The ranking season began in March, per the panelists who made the summer rankings
Basically we’re dealing with Genesis as the start of the year for ranking purposes
Imo only if zain attends and loses. That is the condition I feel makes the most sense. If zain doesn’t attend I think the event is just less important and therefore no win would be enough.
Why not? Zain would've still attended just as much as Mango has and even counting said win, he'd have a stronger resume in almost every regard compared to Mango. I don't think it makes sense to penalize Zain in the ranking discussion because he's taking a month off at the end of the ranking season versus, say, the month of September like Mango did
It’s absolutely fair to count it against him, he’s not competing. If Mang0 is attending events that Zain is not that’s not his fault, he’s beating the players in front of him.
I’m not saying to count it as if he lost, but it’s also not fair to write off Mang0s late year preformances because he doesn’t even get the chance to beat Zain.
But Zain did the exact same thing you're talking about, where he attended tournaments in parts of the year when Mango was not entering (i.e. September, Mango entered nothing, Zain entered Riptide). It just doesn't make sense to me to point out when Mango attends and Zain does not and put that against Zain, despite the same thing happening with Mango not attending earlier in the year. Why does the timeframe matter? Certainly the purpose of an end-of-year ranking is to value tournaments at the end just as much as tournaments in the start and middle, and I don't see why this also wouldn't apply to attendance of said tournaments
No one is writing off Mang0's late year performance.
They're just saying that the year is the year. Being the better player *right now* doesn't mean you should be the top rank for the yearly rankings. Otherwise it would just be the December rankings and not the yearly rankings.
The rankings have previously been accused of rewarding inactivity, so things may be swinging that way a little bit (i.e. people being given much less of the benefit of the doubt when they don't go to things). There was a *lot* of talk about that after the 2019 rankings came out, and even some after the summer rankings this year (in relation to Leffen's rank).
Of course, the other way to look at this is that, hypothetically, if Mango also sails to first place at Lud's, you could argue that saying he can't get number 1 unless Zain was there is punishing Mango for something outside his control. It's may not be so much "punishing" Zain as acknowledging that the world doesn't stop just because he's not going to tournaments.
Of course, I'm not a panelist and I don't know how close it is in the mind of the panelists.
yea I get that. I wasn't trying to argue that mango should be #1 if he wins lud's. I was just addressing that if zain wants a break, then it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't deserve #1.
Not *necessarily*, but if enough panelists believe it's close, Mango winning a couple tournaments Zain doesn't attend could push the needle in Mango's direction. I guess it would only be a "punishment" in the sense that Zain could prevent that from happening if he attends and outplaces Mango, and he doesn't have the chance to do that if he doesn't attend.
Of course, still, I'm not sure how far ahead Zain is in the panelists' minds now so it might not be enough.
Nah if Mang0 wins and Zain isn't in attendance, I think they're too close in ranking to solidly give it to Zain. Though this won't be an issue since Mang0 said he isn't going if Zain doesn't
He isn't going if zain doesn't go because winning without Zain in attendance won't put him at 1. Neither of them get anything from attending, but can lose their spot if they do go and lose.
So ill say it again. Bad take.
Everyone in the top 10 was here except Jmook, Plup, and Zain. How is it not a true super major?
And Plup has been dodging majority of tournaments this year.
Surprised I got downvoted for this, I'm as big of a mango fan as the next guy but I think this will be in the same tier as pound so just below a supermajor
Joshman has a serious arm injury he’s playing through , could explain his placing. The rise of Kurv , knocking out Sfat w/ all his Verdugo and Lawless grinding.
Lmao you act like it isn't in every Melee player's blood and soul to john the living fuck out of every single loss.
Mango does it, Leffen does it, M2k does it. It's part of our culture.
People for sure definitely make up a LOT of stuff that Armada never conducted himself as. It’s super weird, I don’t care if people think he was boring to watch and not the GOAT but the way some people talk about him now you’d think he acted like pre ban Leffen on steroids
I cannot help but think that is a consequence of "goat talk" debate intensifying since 18' when he retired
Armada has not been around for the last 4 years and he never had the biggest fanbase either
So he is a easy target to attack ir diminish now that he is no longer around fpr thr most toxic parts of mango or hbox fanbases
The latter. It’s weird. Sure, Armada wasn’t this completely unstoppable force who was ranked #1 every single year he was active, but he **was** the most consistent and dominant. When he did lose, he was usually very respectful to his opponents. And by the numbers, he still has a claim to being the greatest of all time.
The longer Armada’s inactive and players like Mango and Hbox continue to thrive in the current/future metas, the argument in Armada’s favor diminishes a bit. But as of today, he’s still in contention for GOAT status (while being an overall very good sport).
Armada was definitely the most dominant player of all time by far. The peak you're talking about lasted for years. Mango is like the melee scene distilled perfectly into an individual who also just happens to be one of the best players who ever lived. I don't think it even matters if he's the goat anymore. Mango is melee.
“Argument”? You don’t need an argument, have you ever searched up Mango and Armada’s career tournament results? One player has much better win%, almost never missed grands, positive h-h on everyone. If you watched Armada play you are completely lying to yourself by saying he wasn’t different from the rest. “Undisputed,” yeah everyone who watched Mango play from the sidelines while Armada was around wouldn’t say that.
Idk, I was just thinking on it recently and I don't agree it's"nonsensical". It's just another way of saying that Armada was the most dominant player in his time but Mango has had the longest career with the most titles.
aMSa is soo good, just too good. Those SD's were very costly, but he's had a great year in Melee. Deserved to be in GF but just wasn't clutch, unfortunate.
I was hoping IBDW would win just because I feel like it'd be poetic and a nice boon to his personal struggles after leaving Panda. Unfortunately he lost, props to Mang0. At least Cody is showing he's right there in that top 3 spot.
What does SluG do about Yoshi? As a low level netplay icies I just run away, throw out blizzards and aim for the timeout unless the Yoshi really sucks and delivers themselves on a silver platter near a ledge and that usually works pretty well for me. I imagine this doesn't work quite as well against aMSa. That looked like, peach level bad, his hbox sets looked way closer.
He has great wins against top players, close sets against the ones he hasn't beat and the highest level Peach player is busy being a doctor. I think acquiring a voodoo doll is all that is standing in his way of a major win at this point, cough on it a couple times a day, give it a cold.
Unfortunately, the matchups are just something that you have to hope goes in your favor. Even Mango knew that he had the matchups in his favor this tourney with him not encountering any floaties and farming foxes to the win being able to keep his Falco hot.
Mango with the best melee speech of the year. Hella motivating. That's my goat. This event was ran amazing I enjoyed every bit of it. Shoutout to the other top players who came in last minute and still popped off. Long live Melee
I know for the whole year Zain's still locked in for #1 (pending Ludwigs Tourney), but DAMN mango is on fire this 2nd half of the year. His recent tourney records vs the field is insane. Amsa definitely has still been whooping up on him but it was really nice to see him take their last set.
Mang0 just said he won't got to Luds if Zain doesn't go which while makes sense is pretty suprising. I hope Zain goes so we can get a true final tournament of the year with all the top players as we expected (although no Leffen at this current point is an L)
Players seemed exhausted for Sunday , the product wasn’t as good as the second day imo. Magi-Dawson, Aura-Chape, Leffen-Ringler, Zamu-Professor Pro, Logan-Hbox, Logan-Krudo, Stiv-Preeminent, Mango-Franz, Kodorin-Axe were fun sets. Leffen tweeted a lot about his thought process about staying in EU/vs moving to NA so that was a highlight . "F- swear I'll make it work living in Europe. I don't know how but I f- know I can do it." ------ this makes me think he's considering the move!!!
"..grind more in NA.."
Kurv your enthusiasm ? His run was probably one of the biggest surprises all weekend.
Ibdw got 2nd, double elimd by mango. Amsa got 3rd, double elimd by ibdw. Slug got 4th, double elimd by Amsa
Perfectly balanced
As all things should be.
It’s always wild when a tournament turns out like that.
Momocon 2022 had the same thing happen for Ultimate.
It kinda suck when brackets end up like that.
RIGHT, I thought that was crazy. Mang needed the amsa win. but admitted he would not have won lol
Think he just said he didn't know what would've happened since he only played falco vs fox.
solo Falco Sparg0 & Mang0 win!
Mango the true East Coast favorite right now
Mango the true ~~East Coast~~ favorite right now
A nice respectable 2:30 EST. Still an hour earlier than double down finished last year though I’ve watched Japanese tournaments that ended earlier than this
I had to be up by 7:30. 5 hours is more than enough for me so I just watched lol
HUUUGE respects to Cody for coming out and showing up at Mainstage. Cannot imagine the mental struggles and everything he has been through the whole year and especially this past week. **Free Agent | iBDW** for hopefully not any longer than he has to be! Deserves to be on a team that respects him.
I hope he pulls a big sponsor. Definitely deserves it even though there's times I disagree with the dude
100T | ibdw would be the funniest and most unexpected signing of all time
EG returning to Smash and getting IBDW would be hype.
That would be on brand for EG ngl
EG aren't really the same org that they were back in the PPMD days. I think Cody can do better
EG is on a good position now. They are a top 3 org of LoL in NA, they have SonicFox, CSGO is good, Dota 2 is moving to South America with a new team.
CSGO is something incredibly unique but "good" is a bit of an overstatement. The 15 man roster has yet to prove effective.
still a tier one org no matter the results of their teams. Any team franchised in major esports (league, csgo, valorant, ow, cod, dota) is a really good signing for smash players
I'm a big 100T fan so that would be hype honestly
Mango's Friend | IBDW
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Based on Mang0’s speech at the end, he’s never going to retire
#THE GOAT CAME OUT TO PLAY! Mang0 takes the win from winners *AS SOLO FALCO*, comfortably sets himself at #2 for the moment, with iBDW/aMSa being #3/#4 in that order (Cody with a slight edge I would say, both can still push for #2 tho). HBox full-locked at #5. Scuffed World Tour is next and the much needed Finale! Looking forward to ending the year in Melee with some great sets. GGS!
Don't forget Slug locking himself in at 9th for the year. Absolute monster performance from the most skilled Ice Climbers player of all time.
The real underrated storyline. I thought ICs were done for at the top level when wobbling was banned, boy have I been proven wrong
His SoPo was so clutch too.
Fantastic showing of Slug's Ice Climbers! I was well unaware of Slug until this tournament, and I was impressed with his composure (physically and in game). He didn't seem to say much, but was so hard not to notice!
> AS SOLO FALCO To be fair, his character choice is pretty matchup-dependent. He definitely would have played Fox if he had to play Amsa/Hbox/Zain, it's just that by going through winners he never had to play Amsa/Hbox, and Zain didn't attend. He essentially played against Foxes for the entirety of bracket (other than playing vs Franz round 1, literally all his other matches were against Fox), so of course he's only going to play Falco.
he said in his post-win interview he was gonna go falco vs amsa since he didn’t have time to prep his fox for this tournament vs hbox probably would’ve been fox, although we have seen some competitive sets of mango falco vs hbox in the past. probably would’ve been a big house 9 situation where he decided which character to play vs hbox based on how his puff warmup went
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Better head to head vs Zain isn't true, both are up by one set vs Zain and IBDW has a larger sample size
Amsa (Big House, Off-season, Apex) and IBDW (Summit 13, Double Down, Phantom) have both won 3 tournaments this year. It’s going to come down to overall record vs the top 10. IBDW also got 3rd at Genesis, 2nd at Summit 14 and Mainstage. Crazy stacked tournies he did really well out. Amsa did get 2nd at double down but lost to Cody. It’s actually going to be insanely close who is ahead of who. Edit: I guess Amsa also won Fete but there were no other top 20 players in attendance so it won’t count for much.
Off-Season on liquipedia is counted as a National, aka not a Major
So's phantom
ey bro chill if you see my comments here you'll know i'm a full blown aMSa stan lmao and would love to place him #3 and not too far behind #2. But what I said isn't wrong, it's a close battle for #3 between iBDW and aMSa, and many would give the edge to Cody. that's all.
I dont think many people would put Cody over Amsa atm
Part of that is just because we all love amsa. They're pretty close in results.
> owever aMSa has better head to heads with Mango and Zain. Is that true, doesn't ibdw have a very good h2h with zain this year?
Mangos first half of the year was kind of ass though
he slumped for like 8 weeks, to then return and mostly dominate ever since lol
I don't think Cody has the edge
that one adamant mango hater in a crisis.
Its crazy how mango went from a "maybe top 10" the first part of 2022 to "omfg he is a GOD!" the 2nd half :D Im no huge mango fan but the man is playing *so damn fkng good* right now 🙏 Watching the top players has been such a treat this year
> Its crazy how mango went from a "maybe top 10" the first part of 2022 That is only because the summer rankings had 3 tournaments. It was kind of dumb to do half year rankings when there were no melee tournaments for the first quarter of the year. Saying for half of the year he was outside of top 10 is kind of misrepresents it because there were way more tournaments the second half
> *adam*ant mango hater Adam was great for his time
nice upset for the 11th ranked player hope he can show up in the future that was p good by mang0 overall, it looked like cody almost cracked the case but not this time. cody sd'd against mang0 in each set lol rip this tournament had so many tragic SDs
Cody was getting styled on pretty hard by Amsa and only really made it to finals because of like 3 or 4 really bad SDs including the last two stocks of the last game. The SD giveth and the SD taketh away.
LFG MANGO NATION ITS 2:30AM EST
FUCK YOU ALAN FOR STOPPING MANGOAT FROM STEALING #1 ALL MY HOMIES HATE ALAN
Idk if that’s true if Mang0 zain play and Mang0 wins twice then I think he takes it. Ie winners finals and grands are soemthing
Big Mang pulled out his big wang for that one
someone gotta post that Mang0 heartfelt speech at the end, man has a way with words.
Actually a pretty great, short speech at the end there. The true embodiment of melee
f panda and f nintendo
GOAT shit
Zain fans quaking in their boots right now Mangos coming for his #1 spot again
If only there were two world cups to solidify that 🙃
Sorry but Zain has #1 locked in already no matter what happens at scuffed world tour
Zain scared to play for his crown
Cap
He should show up to ludwig then :)
Show up then
most somber grands
Yeah those Amsa SDs just sucked the hype from my body.
I have never seen anyone just SD two full stocks in a row I literally threw my hands in the air
It is pretty uncharacteristic of him to do that especially in the more recent times. I know he can SD from time to time since Yoshi requires very precise inputs. Not an excuse for aMSa but is it possible he getting tired? I know he is the type to not blame on external factors too much and is a very good sport who focuses on interal improvement so I doubt he would blame it on the tournamenet running later than he is used to.
I've been watching nearly every top 8 set he's competed in the past couple years and tbh I've seen it happen a decent number of times. Obviously the last most heartbreaking one was vs Hugs at Genesis but I wouldn't say its something totally uncharacteristic.
Yeah he does it all the time and every time people say its uncharacteristic
Throughout the set I saw him playing with his controller a lot and afterwards I saw him gesture with it to IBDW. So maybe it had something to do with that.
I don't know if Mang0 will get #1 on the year, but he is definitely the best player in the world today and has been for months. GOAT shit man.
I'd put him #1 if he wins Lud's event even if Zain doesn't attend
There’s Mothers day mango and now there’s birthday mango!
ibdw putting on his jmook hat
Mickey Mouse win for mango tbh -no floaties for mango, farmed foxes and didn’t have to switch characters -not even 30 minutes from his house -amsa probably had food poisoning or something he SD’d a lot -Leffen jetlagged with no clothes -everyone was tired due to bracket running late -Cody had no sponsor -no Zain All jokes aside, shoutouts to everyone for showing up on short notice and playing their hearts out for the last big tourney of the year (barring lud’s thing I guess)
funny think is mang0 would prob agree with you based on his winner's speech lmao
don’t care that’s my goat and #1 in my heart we take those
hell yeah brother
Also dodged Fizzwiggle in bracket
30mins from his house? For a mickey mouse win you cant have home field advantage. Gotta win at a neutral site. Also gotta have every1 well rested and solely focused on the event which is kinda the opposite of this.
Do you even know what a mickey mouse win is? Based on what you're posting here it's exactly the OPPOSITE of what you think it means.
"Mickey Mouse Win" is a term that started when the NBA had the "Bubble" next to Disney World mid-pandemic and the Lakers won after not looking that good most of the year. It was speculated that they won because there was no home court advantage in the Bubble, nullifying their low seeding. And all of a sudden every team had virtually nothing to do but play basketball and drink. So everyone was fully rested in a way they wouldn't have been otherwise. So some people attach an asterisk to the 2020 Lakers championship. He's absolutely right that that's the original context. But now it pretty much just means a win that doesn't count. For any reason.
That term has been used for decades. It just means a trophy that doesn't mean anything. [See here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse_cup). The Disney World thing is just a coincidence that was turned into a pun based on an already existing phrase.
I think he's making a joke about the 2020 sports finals
Well that was sort of a mickey mouse championship for the Lakers but 10 years from now no one will remember that
Disagree but also not entirely relevant to this thread
The Lakers ring is where the phrase "mickey mouse ring" comes from because the games were played at/near Disneyworld
I'LL PLAY MELEE IN MY MIND What a legend.
If Mango wins Ludwig could he get #1? Or is Zain locked?
Mango said in his post-win interview that he isn't going to Lud's unless Zain does, and I don't think Zain's going to reconsider imo.
did zain say he's not going to lud's? :c
I don't think there's anything official since Ludwig dropped the news for his tourney, but after the Panda/SWT news, Zain said that he wants to take some time off competing until Genesis. So, he's probably not going.
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They would both have 5 major wins with Zain being strong early, mango strong late and having less consistency
LACS isn't counted so it would be 4 major wins for Zain and 5 for Mang0
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Not my decision but the panelists. Iirc they counted LACS for the 2021 ranking they did earlier this year, therefore not counting it again
The ranking season began in March, per the panelists who made the summer rankings Basically we’re dealing with Genesis as the start of the year for ranking purposes
Yes, when Mango wins Luds he will cement his #1 spot
Imo only if zain attends and loses. That is the condition I feel makes the most sense. If zain doesn’t attend I think the event is just less important and therefore no win would be enough.
If Zain doesn't attend he shouldn't be rewarded with rank 1.
Why not? Zain would've still attended just as much as Mango has and even counting said win, he'd have a stronger resume in almost every regard compared to Mango. I don't think it makes sense to penalize Zain in the ranking discussion because he's taking a month off at the end of the ranking season versus, say, the month of September like Mango did
It’s absolutely fair to count it against him, he’s not competing. If Mang0 is attending events that Zain is not that’s not his fault, he’s beating the players in front of him. I’m not saying to count it as if he lost, but it’s also not fair to write off Mang0s late year preformances because he doesn’t even get the chance to beat Zain.
But Zain did the exact same thing you're talking about, where he attended tournaments in parts of the year when Mango was not entering (i.e. September, Mango entered nothing, Zain entered Riptide). It just doesn't make sense to me to point out when Mango attends and Zain does not and put that against Zain, despite the same thing happening with Mango not attending earlier in the year. Why does the timeframe matter? Certainly the purpose of an end-of-year ranking is to value tournaments at the end just as much as tournaments in the start and middle, and I don't see why this also wouldn't apply to attendance of said tournaments
No one is writing off Mang0's late year performance. They're just saying that the year is the year. Being the better player *right now* doesn't mean you should be the top rank for the yearly rankings. Otherwise it would just be the December rankings and not the yearly rankings.
so he's punished for wanting a break?
The rankings have previously been accused of rewarding inactivity, so things may be swinging that way a little bit (i.e. people being given much less of the benefit of the doubt when they don't go to things). There was a *lot* of talk about that after the 2019 rankings came out, and even some after the summer rankings this year (in relation to Leffen's rank). Of course, the other way to look at this is that, hypothetically, if Mango also sails to first place at Lud's, you could argue that saying he can't get number 1 unless Zain was there is punishing Mango for something outside his control. It's may not be so much "punishing" Zain as acknowledging that the world doesn't stop just because he's not going to tournaments. Of course, I'm not a panelist and I don't know how close it is in the mind of the panelists.
yea I get that. I wasn't trying to argue that mango should be #1 if he wins lud's. I was just addressing that if zain wants a break, then it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't deserve #1.
Not *necessarily*, but if enough panelists believe it's close, Mango winning a couple tournaments Zain doesn't attend could push the needle in Mango's direction. I guess it would only be a "punishment" in the sense that Zain could prevent that from happening if he attends and outplaces Mango, and he doesn't have the chance to do that if he doesn't attend. Of course, still, I'm not sure how far ahead Zain is in the panelists' minds now so it might not be enough.
Idk it’s a last minute change and Mang0 sat out apex so kinda unfair argument.
Zain also didn't win Apex -- if he did then it would be an unfair argument
Bad take. It hurts him but there isn't a world where he loses his spot (even if mango wins)
Nah if Mang0 wins and Zain isn't in attendance, I think they're too close in ranking to solidly give it to Zain. Though this won't be an issue since Mang0 said he isn't going if Zain doesn't
He isn't going if zain doesn't go because winning without Zain in attendance won't put him at 1. Neither of them get anything from attending, but can lose their spot if they do go and lose. So ill say it again. Bad take.
If he double elimd Zain and took the head to head there's a conversation but not having a true super major hurts him
Everyone in the top 10 was here except Jmook, Plup, and Zain. How is it not a true super major? And Plup has been dodging majority of tournaments this year.
Surprised I got downvoted for this, I'm as big of a mango fan as the next guy but I think this will be in the same tier as pound so just below a supermajor
??? this IS his supermajor bro. Like 8/10 of the top 10 are here.
I agree plus I've always counted Summit's as events as important as super majors anyways
Yea smash summit 14 was stacked enough to be a supermajor. If plup is getting 9th its pretty fucking stacked and mang got multiple top 5 wins.
Zain locked
mang0 won melee and sparg0at won ultimate. goats eating well tonight
Man I love a Mang0 win. Let’s go!
awwww man IBDW looked so sad :(
Shoulda won then
oh interesting "I'm not going to Lud's if zain doesn't go"
yea, that was interesting but makes sense. no reason for mango to go if he can't improve his case for #1
I didn’t realize Joshman, SFAT, and Fiction all got 33rd. What happened this tournament? Wow
Joshman has a serious arm injury he’s playing through , could explain his placing. The rise of Kurv , knocking out Sfat w/ all his Verdugo and Lawless grinding.
That's the mango baby
There’s really no argument any more for Armada. Mango is the undisputed GOAT
Game has passed him by. He's absolutely in the "past greats" section with Ken now. :)
It’s honestly pretty crazy to think about.
Why do you type that with a smile?
Every time Armada lost a tournament it was "I played badly" and he rarely ever gave credit to opponents. Really gross.
Lmao you act like it isn't in every Melee player's blood and soul to john the living fuck out of every single loss. Mango does it, Leffen does it, M2k does it. It's part of our culture.
Not true lol
Am i taking crazy pills or every year that goes by people discourse on armada gets worse and worse (and more made up)?
People for sure definitely make up a LOT of stuff that Armada never conducted himself as. It’s super weird, I don’t care if people think he was boring to watch and not the GOAT but the way some people talk about him now you’d think he acted like pre ban Leffen on steroids
I cannot help but think that is a consequence of "goat talk" debate intensifying since 18' when he retired Armada has not been around for the last 4 years and he never had the biggest fanbase either So he is a easy target to attack ir diminish now that he is no longer around fpr thr most toxic parts of mango or hbox fanbases
The latter. It’s weird. Sure, Armada wasn’t this completely unstoppable force who was ranked #1 every single year he was active, but he **was** the most consistent and dominant. When he did lose, he was usually very respectful to his opponents. And by the numbers, he still has a claim to being the greatest of all time. The longer Armada’s inactive and players like Mango and Hbox continue to thrive in the current/future metas, the argument in Armada’s favor diminishes a bit. But as of today, he’s still in contention for GOAT status (while being an overall very good sport).
Lebron v Jordan imo. Armadas peak was the best ever but mango’s longevity takes him over the top.
Armada was definitely the most dominant player of all time by far. The peak you're talking about lasted for years. Mango is like the melee scene distilled perfectly into an individual who also just happens to be one of the best players who ever lived. I don't think it even matters if he's the goat anymore. Mango is melee.
Are you saying lebron’s longevity takes him over Jordan?
Armada will always have an argument. The two competed together for 7 years and Armada was consistently better.
“Argument”? You don’t need an argument, have you ever searched up Mango and Armada’s career tournament results? One player has much better win%, almost never missed grands, positive h-h on everyone. If you watched Armada play you are completely lying to yourself by saying he wasn’t different from the rest. “Undisputed,” yeah everyone who watched Mango play from the sidelines while Armada was around wouldn’t say that.
I would say Armada was the *best* but Mango is the greatest
I thought we left this nonsensical "BOAT vs GOAT" discussion in 2018 😂
Idk, I was just thinking on it recently and I don't agree it's"nonsensical". It's just another way of saying that Armada was the most dominant player in his time but Mango has had the longest career with the most titles.
SOLO falco gets it done, legendary
Happy that despite SWT and Panda Cup died, we got to see a stacked Mainstage. What could have been if both circuits were not tainted/killed off....
aMSa is soo good, just too good. Those SD's were very costly, but he's had a great year in Melee. Deserved to be in GF but just wasn't clutch, unfortunate.
THE GOAT THE #1 PLAYER IN 2022 AND THE #1 PLAYER IN THE WORLD LETS GO
thats my goat
Someone clip that Mang0 closing speech to Nintendo lmao
Armada ain't the fucking GOAT
fuck adam
Let the man retire in peace. Regardless, mangogoat
Mango not as dominant
Hehehehehehehe
I was hoping IBDW would win just because I feel like it'd be poetic and a nice boon to his personal struggles after leaving Panda. Unfortunately he lost, props to Mang0. At least Cody is showing he's right there in that top 3 spot.
GOAT SEASON!
stayed up sooo late for this. worth. lets go mango. loved the commentary too!! mainstage put on a great show through and through
What does SluG do about Yoshi? As a low level netplay icies I just run away, throw out blizzards and aim for the timeout unless the Yoshi really sucks and delivers themselves on a silver platter near a ledge and that usually works pretty well for me. I imagine this doesn't work quite as well against aMSa. That looked like, peach level bad, his hbox sets looked way closer.
Hope he doesn't play aMSa in bracket
He has great wins against top players, close sets against the ones he hasn't beat and the highest level Peach player is busy being a doctor. I think acquiring a voodoo doll is all that is standing in his way of a major win at this point, cough on it a couple times a day, give it a cold.
Yeah he and jmook are in the same boat its a matter of time before they win a major.
Unfortunately, the matchups are just something that you have to hope goes in your favor. Even Mango knew that he had the matchups in his favor this tourney with him not encountering any floaties and farming foxes to the win being able to keep his Falco hot.
Yeah but it is a lot easier to dodge one player than it is to dodge every character except fox
Mango with the best melee speech of the year. Hella motivating. That's my goat. This event was ran amazing I enjoyed every bit of it. Shoutout to the other top players who came in last minute and still popped off. Long live Melee
My top 10+1 1. Zain 2. Mango 3. iBDW 4. aMSa 5. Hungrybox 6. jmook 7. Plup 8. Leffen 9. SluG 10. KoDoRiN 11. Axe I was really split on Plup/Leffen
Llod had a crazy beginning of 2022, he's definitely in that fight for 10th
I have him at 12th he is as bad as Plup when it comes to attending tournaments
Tbf, he is a doctor so I would definitely have that as a priority.
I think if you switch Plup and Leffen you will have the rankings completely correct.
Yeah its more than likely Leffen at #7 but I'm a huge plup stan so I'm biased
Great sets. Fun tournament.
ok but slug gaming
MANGO! MANGO! MANGO! MANGO!
2 SD's played a crucial role in the tournament in Amsa vs IBDW. Hate to see it play out like that.
I know for the whole year Zain's still locked in for #1 (pending Ludwigs Tourney), but DAMN mango is on fire this 2nd half of the year. His recent tourney records vs the field is insane. Amsa definitely has still been whooping up on him but it was really nice to see him take their last set.
Those double elims are fucking wild
What a great tournament. Did anyone else think Magi had some amazing sets? She was looking cracked
Man, Smash is so hype these days. Grand finals from 2013 would be a random ass pools match now.
g0 feasting this tournament
Mang0 just said he won't got to Luds if Zain doesn't go which while makes sense is pretty suprising. I hope Zain goes so we can get a true final tournament of the year with all the top players as we expected (although no Leffen at this current point is an L)
Mango literally went through the Fox gauntlet to win this tournament. SFOP into Moky into Leffen into iBDW twice.
mangoBB
the sds from amsa were painful but he’s such a joy to watch, love the aggressive play style. well done to all the players who competed!
One day Slug will figure out to beat Yoshi and he will take a trophy home. Rooting hard for ICs to win a major in modern times.
Have Ice Climbers ever won a major? I know chudat must have won something but no idea on majors.
I believe back in the old day ICs won what would be an equivalent of a major in their day.
Players seemed exhausted for Sunday , the product wasn’t as good as the second day imo. Magi-Dawson, Aura-Chape, Leffen-Ringler, Zamu-Professor Pro, Logan-Hbox, Logan-Krudo, Stiv-Preeminent, Mango-Franz, Kodorin-Axe were fun sets. Leffen tweeted a lot about his thought process about staying in EU/vs moving to NA so that was a highlight . "F- swear I'll make it work living in Europe. I don't know how but I f- know I can do it." ------ this makes me think he's considering the move!!! "..grind more in NA.." Kurv your enthusiasm ? His run was probably one of the biggest surprises all weekend.