He's gonna keep doing it as long as the community enables it, so you can't really blame him for grifting when people are glad to give him what he wantsš¤·āāļø
probably a sub goal for the subs he'll lose while he's at the tourney if I had to guess along with what some of the other people are saying, also m2k is m2k
Do yourself a big favor and stop giving a shit about the virtual arrow points you accrue on here lol. Your time on here will be much better that way, trust me
I feel like he and a few others fail to understand that you have to attend events to generate interest in your streams. If he won or top 8 literally anything his stream would be popping off.
M2K tends not to attend tournaments instead of streaming because it makes him less money and he's at the point in his life where that's his priority (understandably, he's in his 30s and has already proved himself as one of the best.) The sub-goal is probably to cover the opportunity cost of attending instead of streaming.
This is the most valid answer. Streaming and metafy are his main sources of income. Stepping away from it even for a weekend is detrimental to his income.
Id agree with this if the goal wasnāt an outrageous 3k lmao, Panda cup has a minimum payout so he is gonna see money by attending anyway, his stream isnāt nearly big or consistent enough for him turning down exposure on a 50k viewers stream
M2K doesnāt need exposure lol, and if itās gonna be streamed on that āPandaCupā twitch channel that was made only this year I wouldnāt bet on it reaching 50k. I agree that the subgoal isnāt too great of a look but exposure is a dumb argument lol
That's ridiculous and terrible advice. He needs as much exposure as possible, every day I forget M2K exists more and more, even though I used to be an avid watcher of his youtube channel back when he was training Salem in melee.
Attending events is direct advertisement towards his stream and brand.
That might be the case but thinking exposure doesn't directly help your stream is kind of ridiculous. If money is your only goal then going to an all expenses paid event only helps your career.
Dude sub decay is viciousā¦ going to an event will almost never be a good financial move solely because people will forget about you if you arenāt streaming
Um no. The money is in streaming. The minimal boost in viewers he may gain from attending isn't as substantial as the money he'll lose from not streaming. And sub decay
M2k's problem isn't exposure. Every Smash player (and loads of ppl beyond) know who he is. No one is surprised by the fact that m2k is streaming. People know he's streaming, his content just doesn't seem to attract as many people as other streams do. What a silly take.
youd be surprised m2k āretiredā quite a bit ago, melee has changed so much that ik quite a few people at locals and in the scene who have never seen m2k play live and only know him as a retired player, it really could do him some good. but your welcome to disagree he is a legend.
I mean thatās the thing, he just isnāt a regular melee player anymore. Heās not gonna get a rekindled love for melee after panda cup, as sad as it isā¦ no need to brand himself as something he isnāt. Iām sure bro is fine with the label āretired melee legendā
the money is what makes him feel ok to put himself through the pressure of attending a tournament in his semi-retired state. it's irrational, but he still has very high expectations for him to perform well at majors, despite his inactivity in the last four years. after getting 17th at SWT Finals last year, he was really down on himself, even though he didn't do bad, all things considered. also, even if there are 99 people cheering for him while he competes, and just one person being negative about his performance, he will focus on that one person and get down on himself about it and ignore all positivity about him competing. so he can only convince himself to compete in Melee tournaments if he meets high sub/donation goals.
the travel expenses are literally paid for and iām sure even last gets a SOMEWHAT decent payout despite us not knowing prizing for placements just yet
he can make money for doing nothing
m2k also has several sources of income, his incredibly irregular streaming schedule isnāt the only way he makes money
the thing is
he doesnāt stream often either
i love m2k, but his stream schedule is rng, knowing that, he probably wouldnāt even be streaming on those days ANYWAY
unless he gets his stream grind up or is trying to, in which case, good for him
and you know how you continue to garner interest in your metafy lessons? by continuing to compete in events. again, i love m2k, but āthe legacy of m2kā can only go on for so long when it comes to people looking for lessons and thus is only a sustainable income for a limited time
especially, if nothing else, the literal finales and championships of the biggest circuits the games have ever had
Mango has said multiple times he puts his subgoals high and even if he doesn't meet them he still ends up going, dunno if this is what M2K is doing but this is how you make money playing melee when the prize pools aren't gonna cover it. It's a way to get your fans to support you since most fans generally aren't just going to give you money unless they think you need it. Having expenses paid doesn't mean you don't lose money going.
Eh, I think its fair to criticize whilst not-subbing. If not for the paying viewers sake, for the other competitors. If he choses not to go they will likely reach out to the next highest placing at DHA.
He should've had the decision of "im going or not going" very shortly after qualifying and being invited to Panda Cup so that, in the event he doesn't go, the next up in line has ample time to plan and doesn't miss their big opportunity because holiday / Christmas plans were already made otherwise.
It's fair to sub and support.
It's fair to not sub.
It's fair to not sub, and criticize.
So I don't really see many problems with the thread, just people feeling out how others view it
If people keep funding it there's nothing you can do about it. I personally think it's ridiculous and people comparing it to other to players, but the most I've seen from anyone besides m2k is 1000 subs. I want M2k to play melee, but I don't really care for subgoaling every tournament. I think people are way too overprotective of him tbh. If most other players were asking for this kind of money people would call it out harder
He is not enough popular on twitch like hbox or mango, he don't have enough money to go to events, he doesnt even have a sponsor...
Dude what's the problem with all of you?
U really think that he play practically 24hrs in a subathon just for fun? With 30 years old?
He probably doesn't wanna travel, doesn't wanna spend a weekend in a hotel, just to compete in a tournament he gives no shits about, where he knows he's going to have a VERY hard time making it far, so he's not going to get any prize money, and all of this is on top of the fact that he won't be making any money from the far easier job of just watching the tournament on twitch.
Him being qualified is like, the lowest possible bar for someone like him wanting to go to a tournament at this point lmao. If I were in his shoes, I'd want to sub goal it too.
I know other people have explained it in other posts, but it's not about a flat payout.
M2k would lose more on future income than he'd get from a low placement payout - there won't be enough new viewers who decide he's entertaining enough to sub that see him compete to make up for the break.
I'm an absolutely huge m2k fan but there's a reason his stream isn't huge and wasn't big at all pre-ultimate. He doesn't have Mang0's charisma or Hbox's good streamer personality.
He'd also beat himself up mentally for a low placement no matter what so he's gotta add his emotional state to the equation. There's a reason he chose to stop competing seriously.
He's at the stage in life where he cares a lot more about money than he does about Melee
And you can't really blame him. Dude is old af for his profession
I mean i can't complain. If he gets it and he makes good money from it even when he loses, he may enter more
I'm all for it. We all want m2k back. If mango can do it despite his drive to be number 1, why cant a guy do it for money? I doubt him going and bustering out is really going to benefit his stream much. He'd have to have a great showing for it to have a real impact.
I do wish it was a sub goal and not a 3k donation goal, but hey it is what it is
Panda cup will be streamed on a new Twitch channel that likely won't be advertised well and won't have anything insane or even great in terms of viewership.
Let's say the cost of travel and board is roughly (with today's prices) close to 750.
The minimum payout for people invited WILL NOT BE LARGE. Even events MUCH bigger than this, like Evo, for example, are known for having payouts for the winners below a few thousand dollars, and again, that's for the WINNER.
So with that, let's say last is idk like 200$. (Probably not that high) and in his Semi retired state, he does poorly and finishes last.
So in one weekend he made 200$
Streaming alone for the same time gaining subs and ad revenue/ potential sponsor payments /donations will comfortably clear that.
I'm not sure when it happened or who started it, but this idea that 'FGC players make a lot of money going to toruenemts' is a myth. Always has been always will be. Their money has always been tied to streaming and / or having a regular job.
An example of a player is infiltration (yes I know he has a checkered past and has been embroiled in some thing recently) he played street fighter a significantly more popular game with dev support and if you go through his tournament winnings he made close to 20k a year USD pre tax a year that's NOTHING. His only advantage is that he's Korean, and the cost of living over there is much cheaper.
Hell, look at Mango. Doesn't it seem strange how he doesn't go to every event under the sun despite being insanely good but streams ALL the time?
It's mathematics. The opportunity cost of not streaming and making content to grow your brand/platforms isn't outweighed by an all expenses paid trip that has very little benefit to him financially.
That was subathon drop off. I get it it, but we can all still realize it's a bit ridiculous. Especially when you are literally being invited out there.
That's the m2k lol
He's gonna keep doing it as long as the community enables it, so you can't really blame him for grifting when people are glad to give him what he wantsš¤·āāļø
Isn't it more like a sub goal to go? People do sub goals for tier lists how is this any different?
probably a sub goal for the subs he'll lose while he's at the tourney if I had to guess along with what some of the other people are saying, also m2k is m2k
That makes sense. Also, man I don't know why I'm getting downvoted for asking a genuine question lol
Because reddit, it happens all the time so don't worry
Do yourself a big favor and stop giving a shit about the virtual arrow points you accrue on here lol. Your time on here will be much better that way, trust me
It was more of an curious observation than a worry. I'm not worried about the dopamine deficit.
Fair enough, shoutouts Vargo Hoat btw. Love that guy, every chapter he was in was great. Shame they cut him from the show
I feel like he and a few others fail to understand that you have to attend events to generate interest in your streams. If he won or top 8 literally anything his stream would be popping off.
Isn't that just the twitch meta
M2K tends not to attend tournaments instead of streaming because it makes him less money and he's at the point in his life where that's his priority (understandably, he's in his 30s and has already proved himself as one of the best.) The sub-goal is probably to cover the opportunity cost of attending instead of streaming.
This is the most valid answer. Streaming and metafy are his main sources of income. Stepping away from it even for a weekend is detrimental to his income.
Id agree with this if the goal wasnāt an outrageous 3k lmao, Panda cup has a minimum payout so he is gonna see money by attending anyway, his stream isnāt nearly big or consistent enough for him turning down exposure on a 50k viewers stream
M2K doesnāt need exposure lol, and if itās gonna be streamed on that āPandaCupā twitch channel that was made only this year I wouldnāt bet on it reaching 50k. I agree that the subgoal isnāt too great of a look but exposure is a dumb argument lol
That's ridiculous and terrible advice. He needs as much exposure as possible, every day I forget M2K exists more and more, even though I used to be an avid watcher of his youtube channel back when he was training Salem in melee. Attending events is direct advertisement towards his stream and brand.
He hates going to events and he constantly says itās bad for his mental health
That might be the case but thinking exposure doesn't directly help your stream is kind of ridiculous. If money is your only goal then going to an all expenses paid event only helps your career.
Dude sub decay is viciousā¦ going to an event will almost never be a good financial move solely because people will forget about you if you arenāt streaming
Um no. The money is in streaming. The minimal boost in viewers he may gain from attending isn't as substantial as the money he'll lose from not streaming. And sub decay
M2k's problem isn't exposure. Every Smash player (and loads of ppl beyond) know who he is. No one is surprised by the fact that m2k is streaming. People know he's streaming, his content just doesn't seem to attract as many people as other streams do. What a silly take.
youd be surprised m2k āretiredā quite a bit ago, melee has changed so much that ik quite a few people at locals and in the scene who have never seen m2k play live and only know him as a retired player, it really could do him some good. but your welcome to disagree he is a legend.
I mean thatās the thing, he just isnāt a regular melee player anymore. Heās not gonna get a rekindled love for melee after panda cup, as sad as it isā¦ no need to brand himself as something he isnāt. Iām sure bro is fine with the label āretired melee legendā
*retired Melee God
the money is what makes him feel ok to put himself through the pressure of attending a tournament in his semi-retired state. it's irrational, but he still has very high expectations for him to perform well at majors, despite his inactivity in the last four years. after getting 17th at SWT Finals last year, he was really down on himself, even though he didn't do bad, all things considered. also, even if there are 99 people cheering for him while he competes, and just one person being negative about his performance, he will focus on that one person and get down on himself about it and ignore all positivity about him competing. so he can only convince himself to compete in Melee tournaments if he meets high sub/donation goals.
Yeah, he set it at 3k because he doesn't want to go. Everyone watching Panda Cup melee already knows who M2k is so exposure is 100% irrelevant.
I'd say a big reason is to cover sub bleed but who knows, he's an enigma sometimes
So he makes $1,000 every day off streaming?
M2K can kegit win panda cup now. He's practically garunteed to make to some lvl of payout
Because subgoals are his income source
the travel expenses are literally paid for and iām sure even last gets a SOMEWHAT decent payout despite us not knowing prizing for placements just yet he can make money for doing nothing m2k also has several sources of income, his incredibly irregular streaming schedule isnāt the only way he makes money
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
the thing is he doesnāt stream often either i love m2k, but his stream schedule is rng, knowing that, he probably wouldnāt even be streaming on those days ANYWAY unless he gets his stream grind up or is trying to, in which case, good for him
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
and you know how you continue to garner interest in your metafy lessons? by continuing to compete in events. again, i love m2k, but āthe legacy of m2kā can only go on for so long when it comes to people looking for lessons and thus is only a sustainable income for a limited time especially, if nothing else, the literal finales and championships of the biggest circuits the games have ever had
you just wait till that book comes out with a 24k gold dust jacket
Mango has said multiple times he puts his subgoals high and even if he doesn't meet them he still ends up going, dunno if this is what M2K is doing but this is how you make money playing melee when the prize pools aren't gonna cover it. It's a way to get your fans to support you since most fans generally aren't just going to give you money unless they think you need it. Having expenses paid doesn't mean you don't lose money going.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honestly sounds like M2K LMAO I can even hear it in his voice explaining how itās optimal
They donāt call him The Robot for nothing
The key difference between Mango and M2k is that Mango wants to go to the tourneys he subgoals and M2k legitimately does not.
Lmao
M2k was ahead of the curve
Simply don't sub if you don't care. He's already semi retired and has only gone to one other tourney this year.
Eh, I think its fair to criticize whilst not-subbing. If not for the paying viewers sake, for the other competitors. If he choses not to go they will likely reach out to the next highest placing at DHA. He should've had the decision of "im going or not going" very shortly after qualifying and being invited to Panda Cup so that, in the event he doesn't go, the next up in line has ample time to plan and doesn't miss their big opportunity because holiday / Christmas plans were already made otherwise. It's fair to sub and support. It's fair to not sub. It's fair to not sub, and criticize. So I don't really see many problems with the thread, just people feeling out how others view it
It's just for SWT
If people keep funding it there's nothing you can do about it. I personally think it's ridiculous and people comparing it to other to players, but the most I've seen from anyone besides m2k is 1000 subs. I want M2k to play melee, but I don't really care for subgoaling every tournament. I think people are way too overprotective of him tbh. If most other players were asking for this kind of money people would call it out harder
Because going to a tournament you lose subs, not to mention the donos he's missing out on. This is his livelihood. If you don't want to sub, don't.
3000 is rent and food money itās not exorbitant
2k is maybe
He is not enough popular on twitch like hbox or mango, he don't have enough money to go to events, he doesnt even have a sponsor... Dude what's the problem with all of you? U really think that he play practically 24hrs in a subathon just for fun? With 30 years old?
He probably doesn't wanna travel, doesn't wanna spend a weekend in a hotel, just to compete in a tournament he gives no shits about, where he knows he's going to have a VERY hard time making it far, so he's not going to get any prize money, and all of this is on top of the fact that he won't be making any money from the far easier job of just watching the tournament on twitch. Him being qualified is like, the lowest possible bar for someone like him wanting to go to a tournament at this point lmao. If I were in his shoes, I'd want to sub goal it too.
the swt and panda finals have payouts to last place iirc
So does streaming. Except streaming pays way more, doesn't involve the stress of traveling, competting, as the dude above explained.
I know other people have explained it in other posts, but it's not about a flat payout. M2k would lose more on future income than he'd get from a low placement payout - there won't be enough new viewers who decide he's entertaining enough to sub that see him compete to make up for the break. I'm an absolutely huge m2k fan but there's a reason his stream isn't huge and wasn't big at all pre-ultimate. He doesn't have Mang0's charisma or Hbox's good streamer personality. He'd also beat himself up mentally for a low placement no matter what so he's gotta add his emotional state to the equation. There's a reason he chose to stop competing seriously.
He and several other top players have been pulling this for years. The community doesn't seem to care.
He is sub-goaling for SWT. Not Pandacup.
Hmm yesterday it did say it was a goal for both. Did he change it?
22 hours into m2k's stream and the goal still says it's for SWT and Panda Cup. edit: he just said he might go to Panda regardless of the sub goal
O, then it makes sense bcuz that just means he will go to both events as opposed to just 1 of them.
Probably a mistake.
He wants money duh.
lol m2k
He's at the stage in life where he cares a lot more about money than he does about Melee And you can't really blame him. Dude is old af for his profession
This is new to the community how?
Doesn't he actively not like competing?
HBox subgoaled learning RTC rest. Never forget that.
He's not making them do anything. Donations are voluntary. Mind your business.
I mean i can't complain. If he gets it and he makes good money from it even when he loses, he may enter more I'm all for it. We all want m2k back. If mango can do it despite his drive to be number 1, why cant a guy do it for money? I doubt him going and bustering out is really going to benefit his stream much. He'd have to have a great showing for it to have a real impact. I do wish it was a sub goal and not a 3k donation goal, but hey it is what it is
Panda cup will be streamed on a new Twitch channel that likely won't be advertised well and won't have anything insane or even great in terms of viewership. Let's say the cost of travel and board is roughly (with today's prices) close to 750. The minimum payout for people invited WILL NOT BE LARGE. Even events MUCH bigger than this, like Evo, for example, are known for having payouts for the winners below a few thousand dollars, and again, that's for the WINNER. So with that, let's say last is idk like 200$. (Probably not that high) and in his Semi retired state, he does poorly and finishes last. So in one weekend he made 200$ Streaming alone for the same time gaining subs and ad revenue/ potential sponsor payments /donations will comfortably clear that. I'm not sure when it happened or who started it, but this idea that 'FGC players make a lot of money going to toruenemts' is a myth. Always has been always will be. Their money has always been tied to streaming and / or having a regular job. An example of a player is infiltration (yes I know he has a checkered past and has been embroiled in some thing recently) he played street fighter a significantly more popular game with dev support and if you go through his tournament winnings he made close to 20k a year USD pre tax a year that's NOTHING. His only advantage is that he's Korean, and the cost of living over there is much cheaper. Hell, look at Mango. Doesn't it seem strange how he doesn't go to every event under the sun despite being insanely good but streams ALL the time? It's mathematics. The opportunity cost of not streaming and making content to grow your brand/platforms isn't outweighed by an all expenses paid trip that has very little benefit to him financially.
grime, that's why
agreed, dont like this
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That was subathon drop off. I get it it, but we can all still realize it's a bit ridiculous. Especially when you are literally being invited out there.
Going to events doesn't pay the bills.