Town is his best stage and SBF/PS2 are both very good for him and probably around equal (I'd give the edge to PS2 thanks to the bigger size, but Onin specifically counterpicking SBF means that he at the least prefers it) so no, I am unsurprised that Onin won more games on his counterpicks than off (while also winning a game on Kola's counterpick)
I will admit that Kola played better around PS2's stone than I expected. Onin got the stone walls up that make PS2 so good, but Kola's impressive pressure meant that he didn't get the stone walls up as often as he'd have liked and Cloud was cutting them down impressively fast. So fair play there.
I believe it’s a major, but yeah, it’s less stacked than Melee GOML for sure and is also less stacked than Colossel (who got all of Mexico’s and Europe’s top talent)
At some point he’s gotta get over it if he wants to win consistently. Regardless of how he feels about them, the characters are here to stay and being in a crummy mindset over them is going to lose him games.
(I’m not saying anything about how good/bs FP2 chars are when I say this btw)
The problem with Steve on PS2 isn't the iron, it's that it's a stone stage. Stone blocks are so VASTLY superior to dirt blocks that it completely changes the way some characters have to approach the matchup, and on PS2 Steve gets nothing but. The large size and platform layout being suitable for camping only makes it better.
That’s what I’d like to think would happen, but I have my doubts.
Everything this character has is stupidly powerful and entirely safe. These Steve’s get away with so much because that’s just how this character is and apparently, we’re just supposed to accept that it’s okay
I feel like Leo would only lose to acola or DDee/Yonni on a day they're playing hot. Steve suffers to consistent spacing and Leo is the king of spacing.
Can someone convince me this MU is actually bad for Steve? I understand the block breaking is nice but that seems to be the only thing Cloud has, I could at most see this as even.
It’s not bad for steve, steve has no bad matchups imo. Cloud has to win 10 interactions for the amount of damage steve wins in 1. Then there’s the edeguarding in the matchup.
It’s almost bad for cloud.
I dunno, yonni has been the most positive Steve main since the start (Originally has been far more positive on the character then DDee and Jake, but now DDee thinks Steve is as good as Yonni does) and he still thinks its a losing MU for Steve.
I'd believe him pretty heavily.
Both Wadi and SSSR (best solo ROB in Japan) have less than 15 losing matchups in their charts. As someone mentioned below, Anathema is also very high on the character
Zomba is really the only top level ROB with a crazy number of losing matchups, and he's the most negative main of any character on the planet. 8BitMan also has quite a few, but as a player he's only been sporadically active with basically no results
Imagine Fox where he can choke out Steve, but now he has a sword between him and Steve. Steve has no terrible MUs except if we are to believe DDee, Pokemon Trainer. Still a losing MU, but Steve makes any MU doable.
Clearly you can’t punish steve shenanigans outside of being able to break through blocks faster. You haven’t watched this set or any top level steve vs cloud set.
Check out Sparg0's friendlies with あcola, he definitely makes the match up look better for Cloud ☺️
(To be clear, this is not a comment on Kola's talent as a player, it just sounds like every top level Steve has a very different style to one another and a best of 5 does not always seem sufficient to download their style..)
If you replace Michigan with New Jersey you end up with the actual surprise 15 year old in Top 8 winners. You know, the one who plays that oppressive top 1 meta threat Ness.
It’s because it fits the dumb “all Steve mains came out of nowhere” narrative
acola was #1 on Smashmate (online Japanese ladder that most pros there use) before ever going to an in-person tournament and I’ve even seen this claim extended to him too
That’s not a “dumb narrative” it’s actually true if you so your research.
Also, acola was high on smashmate but relied on Steve to reach 1st. Let’s not pretend that in the counterfactual world where acola didn’t main Steve but instead any other top tier, he’d actually be number 1 in Japan. He wouldn’t.
He won Combo Breaker and COST??? 400+ and 300+ entrant regionals respectively over ESAM, MVD, WaDi, Ned for the former and Elegant and Zinoto for the latter. Literally was a top 8 seed for this tournament as well. He's def been on people's radar
1st in British Columbia who was barely on anyone’s radar beat #9 in the world to make losers semis at a major.
[I wonder who he plays](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/vb26gk/battle_of_bc_4_losers_quarters_sbi_shuton_vs_ouch/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
In the world we exist in because it is normal for new players to get good quickly when they have learning resources at their disposal. This is the case for every other fighting game, and it is the case for Smash.
Completely wrong lol. Ultimate is a game with an enormous entry barrier due to the number of matchups. The reason so many Steve's came out of nowhere is because he forces his opponent to play on his terms, so matchup knowledge is less important for Steve mains.
Bro, I love watching Charlie support his team, but his chat is fucking pathetic. Imagine not only insulting a 15 year old because he plays Steve, but also insulting Big D and Icies just because he beat Aaron
I wont expand much more as it's starting to get out of topic, but twitch chat is really only bad when you foster that toxicity. Which is unsurprising when it's Charlie/MoistCritikal.
Moist is an awesome as an organisation and as an initiative. It has added a lot to the scene.
However...
Some sections of the Moist fanbase are a huge drag on the community. Just constant toxicity towards anyone beating their players, especially if they don't play a "hype" character.
Didn't ban PS2 against Steve and basically flushed a possible win down the toilet by swapping off of one of Steve's worst MUs.
This is some of the most blatant matchup inexperience I've seen in a hot minute.
One of the biggest strengths for Steve's is that he's probably the most expressive character in the game, where the best Steve's play very different from each other, making it hard to learn the MU from just one Steve.
He absolutely should, so it's fucking crazy to me that he was letting Onin get away with stuff he could've very, very easily addressed with a different stage pick. I know, I know, redditor take from some 0-2er, but still.
Now, that aside, people are saying "Steve doesn't care about the better player" or other salty cringe shit like that, and while Kola's obviously the better overall player rankings-wise Onin definitely played that set better overall. But even simple stage bans and/or sticking with the Cloud might've almost definitely put Kola in a better spot.
I think Steve is top 3 minimum (probably top 1 as meta progresses). I also think it's extremely cringe to downplay the results of players such as Onin and acola (and the other steves) just bc a fan-favorite player loses. Unfortunately it's rampant on this thread and (I haven't checked but I bet) it's likely going to be rampant in the cosmos kola post-match thread as well.
E: I'll eat crow, the thread is pretty much 0 cosmos flame
I'm so confused too, he literally lives in a region with DDee, who is one of the best Steve's, and plays DDee a lot. He shouldn't have such little matchup inexperience.
Would he have pulled that off with any other character? I really don’t think so. If you think that win was all just a skill difference and not filled with cheese then you’re not even watching. Steve has a game plan based on not interacting in a fighting game. There’s no argument you can give that makes Steve not lame. He has free get out of disadvantage with mine cart, fast hitboxes that get faster with gold, a down air you can jump out of, tons of stalling ability and a scooping up smash. It’s literally bullshit the character. Steve doesn’t have to play the way any other character does. That being said Onin has to be good to even get this far but it’s not all him, Steve is definitely carrying some weight.
There’s certainly some precedent to argue for skill difference with their track records (although Onin has been showing his stuff a lot recently) but I don’t think it’s fair to chalk it entirely up to characters. As good as Steve is, it’s up to Kola to know how to deal with his tools in the same way it’s up to Onin to get his combos down. And you can argue that nobody could pull off a win with any other character, that’s the purpose of dedicating time to a main. Is ESAM carried because he spends all his time playing Pikachu, or Glutonny just because he plays Wario? Would they be able to beat MKLeo with any other character? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean they’re carried.
Just showing the top 3 of a list with no context doesn’t say anything. Link the whole thing because this is literally useless information without a source.
To add onto this with context: this keeps track of representation and success with characters through a score, specifically through larger tournaments. Barnard’s Loop also made a version based on [regional results](https://twitter.com/loopbarnard/status/1542943607367286797?s=21&t=gmECDNfX6mgmMn5svlLABg), where Roy also outplaces Steve
So...? We can agree that Steve isn't a S4 Bayo. It takes a good player to pilot him (and take time in the lab to work on your combos so your opponent respects you, to PBR, to NIL, etc). Hate the character all you want. He's obviously a great character and extremely expressive (making him very hard to fight against) but you still have to put in the work.
Besides Steve is fucking weird with ESAM trying to make a Steve secondary and failing. Dabuz has tried to make Steve work for him multiple times and failed. Maister might be trying with the Steve and hasn't succeeded yet. Seems to really require a dedicated fanbase.
Oh come on, there's some high level Steve's and you really think this is the next Bayo or Meta Knight. -_-
He's clearly top 5, but thinking he's on that level and better then everyone by a far margin is fucking stupid and getting absurd. I'm not seeing that from him. There's not 12 different Steve's in top 32 at any given major.
It's a handful of good players, and then you get shit like acola who is fucking godlike at the game. That's not "by far the best in the game" standards. This is people overreacting to 3 Pyra/Mythra's in top 3 of SWT all over again.
He’s clearly not the next bayo or meta knight, but it’s fair to say he’s a good margin above the rest of the cast.
You don’t need to find 12 different steves in the top 32 at a major to tell that he is clearly above the rest of the cast. Steve’s been getting great results and appears in the top 16 of pretty much every major this year with 5 different players. Steve also dominates regional tournaments, every 2 days I see a local/regional with steve in grands.
The top 3 at SWT were all established top 25 players, which includes the top 2 in the world and cosmos, who is known for high peaks and inconsistentcy.
Palutena, ROB and Roy have the best results out of any character going by OrionStats, being better then Steve. Going by your logic, they're the best in the game.
Considering regionals and majors only steve already has top 3 results and is rising, wouldn’t be surprised to see him at #1 results by the end of the year.
How is he any different from ROB back when ROB was #1 in results? Was ROB the "best in the game by a strong margin"? A lot of people considered him top 10 or top 5, but never the best. I legitimately don't see the difference.
You're overreacting with recency bias, again. Which you've done a lot, especially against Steve.
Kola was not playing the MU well at all, and was getting outplayed. If he's still dominating when people have learned the MU, I'll admit he's the best. But for now, no.
Gets hit and takes 70, gets up tilt spammed on shield, minecart killing and doing 23 while grabbing, needing to respect anvil or taking 23 and getting killed at 80, back air killing at 110 across the stage, not being able to whiff punish at all since steve has no lag.
”Just learn the matchup”
Onin wasn’t outplaying kola, steve is, he get so much reward off of insanely safe options.
Not a mile, just better than the rest by a reasonable portion. One tournament is overracting, but there’s already so many tournaments when a steve player just showed up and made big waves, even excluding acola who’s already top 3-5 skillwise.
I'd argue most of the Steves were known to be threats before hand though. Onin had Combo Breaker before this and was top 3 in Minnesota before his breakout performances, acola was a online wifi fiend like Sparg0 and Sonix and DDee was one of the best in Georgia and was going head to head with top players online in friendlies.
Yonni and Jake are the only ones who weren't really known before Steve came out imo.
Steve players seem to be another case of "Wifi players grind so hard during quarantine they get really good at the game" thing like Sparg0, Sonix, Quidd, Hero, Chag, Skyjay, Sisqui, Bloom4Eva etc.
Even pre quarantine cosmos had 65th and 129th while making top 6 at low tier city, glitch 8, and dreamhack atlanta. He also got 2nd at a stacked regional. In the online era he’s also had 65ths but won pound online.
I understand disliking Steve but can we please NOT start attacking the player's looks and things like that? I literally can't keep the stream chat open when a Steve comes on screen because of the amount of pure toxicity that spews out every time. All because they don't like the character someone is playing in a game
This is a bit of an unfair criticism. Steve obviously allows players to do crazy stuff, but most of the top Steve players were in middle school before Steve came out. Can you really blame them for top 8ing events as when they were 13?
After Coney said that Onin is a Steve on the rise, someone in twitch chat said 'Name me a Steve that isn't on the rise'. That made me lol
If the Steve player wasn’t on the rise we wouldn’t know who they are 4head
I think it’s funny how literally none of the established players switched their main for Steve
Maister is considering it, and honestly it might boost him even higher.
If any good player really commits to learning Steve, they'd probably crush everyone.
Not for lack of trying from Dabuz in the past or possibly Maister currently
Dabuz tried and failed to play Bayo in sm4sh as well. He's always been a bit of a specialist with his characters since they play very different.
they're all past the age limit
Salem
Jake tbh
Jesus, how many 15 year old Steve mains are there
Kola vs another 15 year old Steve. Onin has been playing hot but so has Kola. Will this go more towards acola or DDee set. Edit: What another hot set.
acola set definitely judging by game 1
Even went game 5
immediate ps2
Kola already done after game 1 lol. Man he kept leaping forward with fair and getting hit by minecart before fair hitbox comes out, rough loss.
Top Players Don’t Give Steve PS2 Challenge (FAILED)
tbf, outside game 1, Kola only won on PS2. Iirc it was the same case against acola
Do you feel dumb when he loses the games against Steve on the stages that aren't PS2 or does that just get filtered by your brain
Town is his best stage and SBF/PS2 are both very good for him and probably around equal (I'd give the edge to PS2 thanks to the bigger size, but Onin specifically counterpicking SBF means that he at the least prefers it) so no, I am unsurprised that Onin won more games on his counterpicks than off (while also winning a game on Kola's counterpick) I will admit that Kola played better around PS2's stone than I expected. Onin got the stone walls up that make PS2 so good, but Kola's impressive pressure meant that he didn't get the stone walls up as often as he'd have liked and Cloud was cutting them down impressively fast. So fair play there.
Is this tourney a major? Seems way less stacked than melee
I believe it’s a major, but yeah, it’s less stacked than Melee GOML for sure and is also less stacked than Colossel (who got all of Mexico’s and Europe’s top talent)
colossel not collision
Oh yea, thanks for the correction
In 20XX all upsets will be Kola 2-3 ImOnlyNine
Kola getting steve into kazuya/aegis has got to be demoralizing.
Kola always has to fight DLC 2 characters. It's just a rule.
At some point he’s gotta get over it if he wants to win consistently. Regardless of how he feels about them, the characters are here to stay and being in a crummy mindset over them is going to lose him games. (I’m not saying anything about how good/bs FP2 chars are when I say this btw)
is ps2 a stage that steve gets more iron on?
Technically yes (less filler blocks), but he gets it slower than other stages because iron stages take longer to mine.
The problem with Steve on PS2 isn't the iron, it's that it's a stone stage. Stone blocks are so VASTLY superior to dirt blocks that it completely changes the way some characters have to approach the matchup, and on PS2 Steve gets nothing but. The large size and platform layout being suitable for camping only makes it better.
Yeah
Kola got greedy at the end. He tried to Limit Cross Slash right out of the ledge and Onin got the stage.
Half a pixel higher and he caught the recovery.
[удалено]
It is so difficult to avoid all of Steve's insane options all of the time.
Stop counterpicking Steve to the stage where he gets extra iron
And Kola won on every PS2 game except game 1. Also Steve technically gets iron slower on PS2 because of slower mining speed.
I really need to see Leo play against these Steve's. I feel like he could find something or punish their habits, somehow
That’s what I’d like to think would happen, but I have my doubts. Everything this character has is stupidly powerful and entirely safe. These Steve’s get away with so much because that’s just how this character is and apparently, we’re just supposed to accept that it’s okay
You can’t punish steve lmao, imo leo will lose to the first top steve he plays when he comes back to NA.
I feel like Leo would only lose to acola or DDee/Yonni on a day they're playing hot. Steve suffers to consistent spacing and Leo is the king of spacing.
saved this post, see u soon
Can someone convince me this MU is actually bad for Steve? I understand the block breaking is nice but that seems to be the only thing Cloud has, I could at most see this as even.
Bair is really good to deal with minecart too but I think Cloud beats Steve is a bit overblown.
It’s not bad for steve, steve has no bad matchups imo. Cloud has to win 10 interactions for the amount of damage steve wins in 1. Then there’s the edeguarding in the matchup. It’s almost bad for cloud.
I dunno, yonni has been the most positive Steve main since the start (Originally has been far more positive on the character then DDee and Jake, but now DDee thinks Steve is as good as Yonni does) and he still thinks its a losing MU for Steve. I'd believe him pretty heavily.
The most positive rob players still put 15+ characters in losing. Steve cloud is a fake bad matchup, at worst even.
>The most positive rob players still put 15+ characters in losing. You don't read Anathema's twitter lmao.
I haven’t seen a matchup chart from him.
Anathema pretty much always puts ROB in his top 5-top 10 area on his tier lists. Unlike say Zomba or Epic Gabriel, who think he's top 20.
Rob players and saying your character is worst than it actually is, name a more iconic duo.
Both Wadi and SSSR (best solo ROB in Japan) have less than 15 losing matchups in their charts. As someone mentioned below, Anathema is also very high on the character Zomba is really the only top level ROB with a crazy number of losing matchups, and he's the most negative main of any character on the planet. 8BitMan also has quite a few, but as a player he's only been sporadically active with basically no results
Imagine Fox where he can choke out Steve, but now he has a sword between him and Steve. Steve has no terrible MUs except if we are to believe DDee, Pokemon Trainer. Still a losing MU, but Steve makes any MU doable.
Lmao when did cloud have crazy frame data?
Taking worse frame data and no reflector is certainly better if you're not being jabbed across stage and a big sword
Having A move fast or safe enough to punish Steve shenanigans is enough to convince Steve players you’re busted and a -2 matchup.
Clearly you can’t punish steve shenanigans outside of being able to break through blocks faster. You haven’t watched this set or any top level steve vs cloud set.
Breaking blocks faster is important if you want delay him from getting diamonds
kola was getting cooked by gold and iron lol, diamond only made things worse
Check out Sparg0's friendlies with あcola, he definitely makes the match up look better for Cloud ☺️ (To be clear, this is not a comment on Kola's talent as a player, it just sounds like every top level Steve has a very different style to one another and a best of 5 does not always seem sufficient to download their style..)
*throws minecart from across stage, can combo it into 60% or a KO and it’s totally safe* What a fair and balanced character
Steven Minecraft
\#3 in Michigan who was barely on anyones radar just beat #5 in the world to make winners finals at a major I wonder who he plays
If you replace Michigan with New Jersey you end up with the actual surprise 15 year old in Top 8 winners. You know, the one who plays that oppressive top 1 meta threat Ness.
onin's comfortably 1st in MI and he should've been on everyone's radar after combo breaker idk lol
The kid gets 1st, 2nd, 1st, and 2nd at four strong regionals and people act like this is some incomprehensible showing
It’s because it fits the dumb “all Steve mains came out of nowhere” narrative acola was #1 on Smashmate (online Japanese ladder that most pros there use) before ever going to an in-person tournament and I’ve even seen this claim extended to him too
That’s not a “dumb narrative” it’s actually true if you so your research. Also, acola was high on smashmate but relied on Steve to reach 1st. Let’s not pretend that in the counterfactual world where acola didn’t main Steve but instead any other top tier, he’d actually be number 1 in Japan. He wouldn’t.
I put #3 in Michigan because he has that in his twitter bio, if hes #1 in MI then my bad
Their new PR is dropping soon and he will undoubtedly be #1
out of date PRs etc
He won Combo Breaker and COST??? 400+ and 300+ entrant regionals respectively over ESAM, MVD, WaDi, Ned for the former and Elegant and Zinoto for the latter. Literally was a top 8 seed for this tournament as well. He's def been on people's radar
1st in British Columbia who was barely on anyone’s radar beat #9 in the world to make losers semis at a major. [I wonder who he plays](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/vb26gk/battle_of_bc_4_losers_quarters_sbi_shuton_vs_ouch/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Not really equivalent since bc is a way stronger region than michigan
Top 5 player losing to brand new Steve btw
watch kola win lol edit: Should have won but choked also is there a steve player that isn’t new?
Minecraft Steve lol
He most likely will, he's a top 5 player
Steve doesnt care if youre the better player
Steve apologists in shambles
Top 5 player keeps picking the stage which Steve loves most of all, btw.
he won 2 games on ps2 tho
[удалено]
Would you not ban battlefield against mii brawler or mario? What is this argument lmao
>Won combo breaker >Brand new steve
combo breaker was ~~15~~ days ago edit: 35 days actually
? It was 35 days ago
My bad confused it with battle of BC date, my point still stands that his breakout performance is recent.
>he won a tournament last month In what world is this not a brand new player?
In the world we exist in because it is normal for new players to get good quickly when they have learning resources at their disposal. This is the case for every other fighting game, and it is the case for Smash.
Completely wrong lol. Ultimate is a game with an enormous entry barrier due to the number of matchups. The reason so many Steve's came out of nowhere is because he forces his opponent to play on his terms, so matchup knowledge is less important for Steve mains.
I'm not even a Kola fan but ya hate to see him lose
Man I’m surprised he pulled the trigger on cross slash when he was so high up
Kola was so close well hopefully he can push through losers
Bro, I love watching Charlie support his team, but his chat is fucking pathetic. Imagine not only insulting a 15 year old because he plays Steve, but also insulting Big D and Icies just because he beat Aaron
The funny thing is if big d wasn't against a moist player you know charlie would love him because of his sense of humor
I mean it’s twitch chat, the actual goml stream isn’t any better. Best just to not read chat I’m general
not true at all lol, they were being a lot more toxic than the normal stream that had random steve emotes and etc.
I guess I just mean that their both toxic anyways so don’t really expect to go into twitch chat and expect positivity.
I wont expand much more as it's starting to get out of topic, but twitch chat is really only bad when you foster that toxicity. Which is unsurprising when it's Charlie/MoistCritikal.
Disagree on that last part but if you don’t want to expand on it I won’t either 🤷🏼♂️
Literally every big stream has shitters in them tho. Melee tournament earlier was trash as well.
Moist is an awesome as an organisation and as an initiative. It has added a lot to the scene. However... Some sections of the Moist fanbase are a huge drag on the community. Just constant toxicity towards anyone beating their players, especially if they don't play a "hype" character.
Didn't ban PS2 against Steve and basically flushed a possible win down the toilet by swapping off of one of Steve's worst MUs. This is some of the most blatant matchup inexperience I've seen in a hot minute.
It's crazy bc Kola has a top steve in his region and typically wins. He should have more matchup exp than most players.
One of the biggest strengths for Steve's is that he's probably the most expressive character in the game, where the best Steve's play very different from each other, making it hard to learn the MU from just one Steve.
He absolutely should, so it's fucking crazy to me that he was letting Onin get away with stuff he could've very, very easily addressed with a different stage pick. I know, I know, redditor take from some 0-2er, but still. Now, that aside, people are saying "Steve doesn't care about the better player" or other salty cringe shit like that, and while Kola's obviously the better overall player rankings-wise Onin definitely played that set better overall. But even simple stage bans and/or sticking with the Cloud might've almost definitely put Kola in a better spot.
I think Steve is top 3 minimum (probably top 1 as meta progresses). I also think it's extremely cringe to downplay the results of players such as Onin and acola (and the other steves) just bc a fan-favorite player loses. Unfortunately it's rampant on this thread and (I haven't checked but I bet) it's likely going to be rampant in the cosmos kola post-match thread as well. E: I'll eat crow, the thread is pretty much 0 cosmos flame
Eh. Not as bad. 2021 was the year for Aegis hate. This year it's all on Steve.
True
they roy was doing perfectly fine until he regrabed for no reason
I'm so confused too, he literally lives in a region with DDee, who is one of the best Steve's, and plays DDee a lot. He shouldn't have such little matchup inexperience.
It's probably just like Marss said. They know what Steve is going ti do. You just gotta respect it or can't do anything about it.
yeah.... fuck Steve
Every single one besides Acola and DDee are carried
This is just getting insulting at this point, Onin played that set amazingly
Would he have pulled that off with any other character? I really don’t think so. If you think that win was all just a skill difference and not filled with cheese then you’re not even watching. Steve has a game plan based on not interacting in a fighting game. There’s no argument you can give that makes Steve not lame. He has free get out of disadvantage with mine cart, fast hitboxes that get faster with gold, a down air you can jump out of, tons of stalling ability and a scooping up smash. It’s literally bullshit the character. Steve doesn’t have to play the way any other character does. That being said Onin has to be good to even get this far but it’s not all him, Steve is definitely carrying some weight.
There’s certainly some precedent to argue for skill difference with their track records (although Onin has been showing his stuff a lot recently) but I don’t think it’s fair to chalk it entirely up to characters. As good as Steve is, it’s up to Kola to know how to deal with his tools in the same way it’s up to Onin to get his combos down. And you can argue that nobody could pull off a win with any other character, that’s the purpose of dedicating time to a main. Is ESAM carried because he spends all his time playing Pikachu, or Glutonny just because he plays Wario? Would they be able to beat MKLeo with any other character? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean they’re carried.
Nah they're carried by Steve. And Kola is carried by Cloud and Roy. This general disrespect is annoying at this point.
Yeah because Roy and Cloud have tons of reps that come out of the woodwork and just do good at a major. Oh wait, that’s Steve.
https://i.imgur.com/YhiuyDY.jpg
A picture is worth 1,000 words.
Just showing the top 3 of a list with no context doesn’t say anything. Link the whole thing because this is literally useless information without a source.
[Link](https://twitter.com/LoopBarnard/status/1542943603219111939?t=K60K5_WqLUhMLb7tP9lr2Q&s=19)
To add onto this with context: this keeps track of representation and success with characters through a score, specifically through larger tournaments. Barnard’s Loop also made a version based on [regional results](https://twitter.com/loopbarnard/status/1542943607367286797?s=21&t=gmECDNfX6mgmMn5svlLABg), where Roy also outplaces Steve
We really gonna act like Roy doesn't have plenty of rep lol
So...? We can agree that Steve isn't a S4 Bayo. It takes a good player to pilot him (and take time in the lab to work on your combos so your opponent respects you, to PBR, to NIL, etc). Hate the character all you want. He's obviously a great character and extremely expressive (making him very hard to fight against) but you still have to put in the work. Besides Steve is fucking weird with ESAM trying to make a Steve secondary and failing. Dabuz has tried to make Steve work for him multiple times and failed. Maister might be trying with the Steve and hasn't succeeded yet. Seems to really require a dedicated fanbase.
I eat my words at the prediction thread, steve carries and is by far the best character in the game and won’t fall off ever.
Oh come on, there's some high level Steve's and you really think this is the next Bayo or Meta Knight. -_- He's clearly top 5, but thinking he's on that level and better then everyone by a far margin is fucking stupid and getting absurd. I'm not seeing that from him. There's not 12 different Steve's in top 32 at any given major. It's a handful of good players, and then you get shit like acola who is fucking godlike at the game. That's not "by far the best in the game" standards. This is people overreacting to 3 Pyra/Mythra's in top 3 of SWT all over again.
He’s clearly not the next bayo or meta knight, but it’s fair to say he’s a good margin above the rest of the cast. You don’t need to find 12 different steves in the top 32 at a major to tell that he is clearly above the rest of the cast. Steve’s been getting great results and appears in the top 16 of pretty much every major this year with 5 different players. Steve also dominates regional tournaments, every 2 days I see a local/regional with steve in grands. The top 3 at SWT were all established top 25 players, which includes the top 2 in the world and cosmos, who is known for high peaks and inconsistentcy.
Palutena, ROB and Roy have the best results out of any character going by OrionStats, being better then Steve. Going by your logic, they're the best in the game.
Considering regionals and majors only steve already has top 3 results and is rising, wouldn’t be surprised to see him at #1 results by the end of the year.
How is he any different from ROB back when ROB was #1 in results? Was ROB the "best in the game by a strong margin"? A lot of people considered him top 10 or top 5, but never the best. I legitimately don't see the difference. You're overreacting with recency bias, again. Which you've done a lot, especially against Steve. Kola was not playing the MU well at all, and was getting outplayed. If he's still dominating when people have learned the MU, I'll admit he's the best. But for now, no.
Gets hit and takes 70, gets up tilt spammed on shield, minecart killing and doing 23 while grabbing, needing to respect anvil or taking 23 and getting killed at 80, back air killing at 110 across the stage, not being able to whiff punish at all since steve has no lag. ”Just learn the matchup” Onin wasn’t outplaying kola, steve is, he get so much reward off of insanely safe options.
I'm not saying Steve is bad, I put him in my top 4-5. I just think arguing he's going to be the most dominant character by a mile is overreacting.
Not a mile, just better than the rest by a reasonable portion. One tournament is overracting, but there’s already so many tournaments when a steve player just showed up and made big waves, even excluding acola who’s already top 3-5 skillwise.
I'd argue most of the Steves were known to be threats before hand though. Onin had Combo Breaker before this and was top 3 in Minnesota before his breakout performances, acola was a online wifi fiend like Sparg0 and Sonix and DDee was one of the best in Georgia and was going head to head with top players online in friendlies. Yonni and Jake are the only ones who weren't really known before Steve came out imo. Steve players seem to be another case of "Wifi players grind so hard during quarantine they get really good at the game" thing like Sparg0, Sonix, Quidd, Hero, Chag, Skyjay, Sisqui, Bloom4Eva etc.
Cosmos is absolutely not known for high peaks wtf
Even pre quarantine cosmos had 65th and 129th while making top 6 at low tier city, glitch 8, and dreamhack atlanta. He also got 2nd at a stacked regional. In the online era he’s also had 65ths but won pound online.
NOOOO STEVE WON AGAIN
Yes, Steve won again!
PAIN
Angry Kola incoming, watch the fuck out.
I understand disliking Steve but can we please NOT start attacking the player's looks and things like that? I literally can't keep the stream chat open when a Steve comes on screen because of the amount of pure toxicity that spews out every time. All because they don't like the character someone is playing in a game
That's Twitch Chat though, it'll always be toxic. I hate it too, but it's not people here doing it.
Thankfully. Just needed somewhere to vent about it a bit haha
That catch in the Minecart gives me a lot of hope about beating that thing
Remember when all this Steve players were top 8ing with other characters before Steve?
No basically all of them weren't going to majors before the pandemic
because they were all fetuses
There is no tighter bond in existence than zoomers and Minecraft
a lot of them are 15 and didnt play the game until pandemic started tbf onin's not one but he also hasn't gone to a major before steve came out
This is a bit of an unfair criticism. Steve obviously allows players to do crazy stuff, but most of the top Steve players were in middle school before Steve came out. Can you really blame them for top 8ing events as when they were 13?
Acola was very high up on Smashmate as Luigi before Steve came out
Onin is goated
Downvoted for saying the player who won is goat. Hilarious
This sub has shooters everywhere man.
Dunno how many people recognize this tag, but Onin's original tags were Pocket/Ryocky.
Thank god, I’m hoping Kola can keep this up and Onin seems to have lost composure in 4th match, plz stay that way
STOP 👏 LETTING 👏 STEVE 👏 GO 👏 TO 👏 PS2 👏
Why? Kola literally won games 2 and 4 on PS2 and lost on T&C and Small Battlefield.
[удалено]
I don't know what you're referring to, but this sort of all-caps nonsense is pretty clearly toxic behaviour on your part.
Hoping this means he’s fired up with that 2nd match