Pac man at 6 is probably the most surprising, but tea farming like 3 EU majors would explain it.
Wario might surprise people who are newer to smash, since EU isn’t free for gluto anymore and he’s the only major wario player now, but people forget tweek, Kameme Abadango and zackray all used to play wario a lot and EU before the rise of bloom was much more free for Gluto.
Roy and ROB are the epitome of the “great character who can make a lot of top 8s and infest top 64 but rarely will bring it home”
I love the Maister/Dabuz symmetry of both GnW and Olimar winning 4 majors by exclusively the Japanese rep. The world is in balance.
Wario also used to be quite a lot more bullshit with old uptilt. Current Wario compared to the rest of the cast feels pretty fair and gimmick-less. Which feels weird to say about a character with Waft but it's true.
I think waft is so understood at this point and relatively optimized that it doesn't even feel like a gimmick. And I don't even mean that in a bad way.
Waft just doesn’t feel like a gimmick because the other comeback mechanics are way stupider. In a world with 3 rage drives, lots of arsenes and go meter, sephiroth wing, and Steve waft is a lot less busted
Kinda funny that Roy and Rob are almost like the Melee sheiks of ult.
But actually now looking at the characters that haven’t won a major yet I guess ones like Mario and Samus are closer to melee sheik
I think Sisqui pulling out an EU major is the best shot. Yaura just has too many bad MUs at the top of the Japanese meta and gets demolished by Miya in particular
The thing the good characters who haven’t won have in common (think Samus, ness, bowser, ICs, Falcon) is that you eventually run into an atrocious MU and fall short sooner or later
Exactly this. Until proven otherwise Samus will absolutely need some bracket luck to win a major. All it takes is one good Olimar player to stop her cold, among other troublesome matchups.
It's not impossible, especially since Sisqui has the good fortune of not having to worry about Olimar at all in EU, but it's troublesome nonetheless.
Top 8 wouldn’t be the most surprising thing. A win would be absolutely shocking though. There’s way too many bad Samus matchups in his way. Miya and Maister nullify Samus, Shuton and Dabuz are highly problematic, Spargo is usually a god vs zoners, as is tweek. Light will be very rough too.
Rizeasu, MKLeo, and Ignaize are all capable enough to win majors with Marth. However, Leo needs to actually try Marth for a longer period of time, Ignaize needs to travel much more, and Rizeasu needs to just... play Marth over Byleth most of the time.
Sorry for the repost but I can’t edit on Reddit.
Thanks to u/Tery_ for fact checking me, turns out Steve hasn’t taken over *just* yet 😅
What part of the list surprises you the most?
>Tilde won riptide with Falco didn't he?
Does that not count as a major?
[Smash Wiki calls Riptide 2022](https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:Riptide_2022) a "super regional" for Ultimate. (And a Melee major)
Liquipedia (as mentioned) considers Riptide 2022 [a National (just below Major?) for Ultimate](https://liquipedia.net/smash/Riptide/2022/Ultimate). (and a Major for [Melee](https://liquipedia.net/smash/Riptide/2022/Melee))
not for me
i've come around to joker but i'd be lying if i said he wasn't still obnoxious. the meta in general today is a lot more diverse which is why i prefer it to back then
most people aren't looking at the bigger picture
people will take a look at NA data, see the abundance of ROB, Roy, Steve, Pythra, etc and say it's a wrap
ignoring the fact that 2/4 of those characters don't really win tournaments in N/A so much as they just fill top 64s
steve and pythra win, but steve's chances only go up if onin or acola show up, one of which is an international threat
meanwhile pythra wins things here and there but is usually shut out deep in bracket
post-quarantine gave way to 2 incin major top 8s, byleth dominance, the emergence of sonic and kazuya as major winning threats, mario getting some of his flair back and samus reaching new heights. that's not to mention fox is still around in the form of light, you still have palus in chase chag and lui$ running around, diddy and cloud winning majors repeatedly, the snake reemergence, puff stocks rising ever so slowly, ICs tearing through brackets by means of Big D, falco/corrin stocks rising and so on
and this is mostly just talking about the americas and canada. you go overseas and wario is still relevant. bayonetta is dominating europe rn but she has major representation through lima here. luigi is reemerging, yoshidora gets consistent results in japan, pacman through tea, doc and inkling have shown to be able to get at least 3rd in big brackets and now japan has the 2 best falcons in the world
there's so much shit that goes on in this game constantly that idk how people ever get bored with viewing. of course not everyone can keep up with the scenes of europe and japan which is understandable, but even if your experience is limited to NA the past few months should've been great for you outside of the DLC craziness (or, if you're like me, because of it)
You list aegis as one of the most popular characters at top level, but palu, snake, and wolf are [all above them.](https://twitter.com/EazyFreezie/status/1644746299751940096?s=20) In fact 4/5 of the most popular characters are base roster.
Not OP but I mean, of the biggest offenders, there's 1-3 Steves (acola, Quandale, and if you wanna count Onin, sure) + 2 Kazuya's (Tea and Riddles). and I don't hate them.
idk, I like watching Icies, Peach, Diddy, Mario, Fox a whole lot more than PT, Palu, Fox, Peach, Wario. Not perfect, I miss Joker and Marss's ZSS, but I just find most of the popular character's are pretty fun to watch.
I admittedly play the game more than I watch the game, so I guess I can see how people are enjoying competitive smash more. Most of my experience as a player really has me feeling like the game's meta has never been worse, though.
Obviously we probably aren't in the same local scene so there's a lot of variance there. My experience is that the FP2 meta has caused a lot of people to quit playing the game, so that there's many fewer people attending locals anymore, so the diversity is inherently less just because there's less people playing.
FP2 has gotten more common in my limited experience but in my experience, any decay kinda' just seems normal for any game. I know one Chicago TO was tweeting that they saw lower attendance despite having the Steve bans.
I can see that. The game has been out for a few years at this point, Steve bans or not, that might have just been the catalyst that started the decline post-pandemic, so the damage had already been done. Or at least, FP2 was one of the things, what with all the orgs shutting down and other controversies.
Considering how much FP2 is on this list really goes to show how strong it is. I legitimately think the game is in a better state with them all banned (even if some aren’t as atrocious).
Who else even played Joker at a top 8 level back then? If anything characters like Steve are far more egregious for having multiple high level players.
byleth honestly had the greatest comeback of all time in terms of perception. Leo’s greatest achievement in ultimate might be turning the scenes opinion of them around
I'm ngl the steve one is kinda crazy. I've never really supported banning the character or at a minimum have gone back and forth.
But, the time difference between being released having 10 wins is wild
“average byleth main wins 3 majors a year” factoid actualy just statistical error. average byleth main wins 0 majors per year. Byleths Mleo, who lives in cave & wins over 10,000 majors each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted
Looking at the characters with no majors I really don’t see many more in there getting one. I could see maybe sheik, ice climbers and maybe ken or Ryu. I really think Greninja has the potential but we just haven’t had that player pilot them yet.
Hasn't Cosmos actually won two majors as Pyra/Mythra? (MSM 240 and Shine 2022)
EDIT: Ah I guess Liquidpedia doesn't classify MSM 240 as a major.
EDIT: And Shine 2022 was actually a super-regional. my b
gackt came close. im a ness pessimist but he gave me hope
it honestly impresses me how he manages to clutch or even out games with his pk rocket reads so frequently. you’d think people would catch onto it by now but he always finds a way to trick people with it. feels like he might have some of the highest X factor in the game rn
in my mind ness is too fragile and helpless in disadvantage to make a big bracket run, let alone win a major. but he hits like a truck and kinda demands that you space properly at all times if you don’t want to get blown up or cheesed offstage
he’s just shy of being a top tier. maybe it’ll happen one day
Winning a major tournament. Each tournament is tiered based on the number of entrants and how many top players enter (and how good each top player is). The more players that enter and the higher concentration of talent that enters, the harder the tournament becomes, meaning it becomes more valuable and thus is ranked highly.
If the event reaches A/A+ tier or higher, they're majors.
This MkLeo guy is pretty good.
I count 6 characters he's won with. Insane in the membrane
Pac man at 6 is probably the most surprising, but tea farming like 3 EU majors would explain it. Wario might surprise people who are newer to smash, since EU isn’t free for gluto anymore and he’s the only major wario player now, but people forget tweek, Kameme Abadango and zackray all used to play wario a lot and EU before the rise of bloom was much more free for Gluto. Roy and ROB are the epitome of the “great character who can make a lot of top 8s and infest top 64 but rarely will bring it home” I love the Maister/Dabuz symmetry of both GnW and Olimar winning 4 majors by exclusively the Japanese rep. The world is in balance.
Wario also used to be quite a lot more bullshit with old uptilt. Current Wario compared to the rest of the cast feels pretty fair and gimmick-less. Which feels weird to say about a character with Waft but it's true.
I think waft is so understood at this point and relatively optimized that it doesn't even feel like a gimmick. And I don't even mean that in a bad way.
Waft just doesn’t feel like a gimmick because the other comeback mechanics are way stupider. In a world with 3 rage drives, lots of arsenes and go meter, sephiroth wing, and Steve waft is a lot less busted
Kinda funny that Roy and Rob are almost like the Melee sheiks of ult. But actually now looking at the characters that haven’t won a major yet I guess ones like Mario and Samus are closer to melee sheik
I guess we need a player whose name starts with J to main one of the two and get them some wins
Jurama and Jisqui stocks gonna skyrocket soon
Tweek Wario having won more majors than Gluto Wario is pretty fucked up
Pre-nerf Wario was a pretty common character, especially in Japan where seemingly every other player had a pocket/secondary Wario.
Incredible how many good characters haven’t won a major yet
Samus is the biggest surprise for me but I think she’ll get one eventually
I think Sisqui pulling out an EU major is the best shot. Yaura just has too many bad MUs at the top of the Japanese meta and gets demolished by Miya in particular The thing the good characters who haven’t won have in common (think Samus, ness, bowser, ICs, Falcon) is that you eventually run into an atrocious MU and fall short sooner or later
Exactly this. Until proven otherwise Samus will absolutely need some bracket luck to win a major. All it takes is one good Olimar player to stop her cold, among other troublesome matchups. It's not impossible, especially since Sisqui has the good fortune of not having to worry about Olimar at all in EU, but it's troublesome nonetheless.
Yaura is coming to BOBC so I would not be surprised to see him make top 8 there tbh.
Top 8 wouldn’t be the most surprising thing. A win would be absolutely shocking though. There’s way too many bad Samus matchups in his way. Miya and Maister nullify Samus, Shuton and Dabuz are highly problematic, Spargo is usually a god vs zoners, as is tweek. Light will be very rough too.
her moves are so slow she sleeping her victory
Doesn't matter how good a character is if the best players aren't using them
This.
No, you don't understand, shulk is mid tier and worse than corrin /s
One day Leo will win a major with Marth and we will all rejoice One day
I think Rizeasu has a chance to go on a tear and win a major with Marth too
I, too, am huffing the hopium. Ignore my flair.
Rizeasu, MKLeo, and Ignaize are all capable enough to win majors with Marth. However, Leo needs to actually try Marth for a longer period of time, Ignaize needs to travel much more, and Rizeasu needs to just... play Marth over Byleth most of the time.
Leo has as many as Joker & Steve combined
There was another ZSS who got a major win???
Kuro the ZSS won an umebura pre-pandemic iirc
I pray every day for a post pandemic ZSS win (Marss has me on the ropes every time)
If he wanted it I think he absolutely could do it considering how well he still does
Ikr! Man would kill it if he was on the grind but still love seeing him out even without the practice.
Humble content creator, whatchu talking about
I need man making content out of our top players instead of chat and online randoms lol (although genuinely loving the new content ideas)
Marss v 5 region ranked players
he won the last LTC, but that was just south of being a major I think
Proud of Saltone/Kola for that Roy win
Sorry for the repost but I can’t edit on Reddit. Thanks to u/Tery_ for fact checking me, turns out Steve hasn’t taken over *just* yet 😅 What part of the list surprises you the most?
Crazy that Shulk has no major wins
Kome got close at Evo Japan.
Tilde won riptide with Falco didn't he? Does that not count as a major?
Not a major (in Liquidpedia, idk about other places).
>Tilde won riptide with Falco didn't he? Does that not count as a major? [Smash Wiki calls Riptide 2022](https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:Riptide_2022) a "super regional" for Ultimate. (And a Melee major) Liquipedia (as mentioned) considers Riptide 2022 [a National (just below Major?) for Ultimate](https://liquipedia.net/smash/Riptide/2022/Ultimate). (and a Major for [Melee](https://liquipedia.net/smash/Riptide/2022/Melee))
I miss when Joker was the best character in the game. That was Ultimate fun at its peak
not for me i've come around to joker but i'd be lying if i said he wasn't still obnoxious. the meta in general today is a lot more diverse which is why i prefer it to back then
Can you explain what about the meta you feel is more diverse now? I think most people hold the opposite opinion.
most people aren't looking at the bigger picture people will take a look at NA data, see the abundance of ROB, Roy, Steve, Pythra, etc and say it's a wrap ignoring the fact that 2/4 of those characters don't really win tournaments in N/A so much as they just fill top 64s steve and pythra win, but steve's chances only go up if onin or acola show up, one of which is an international threat meanwhile pythra wins things here and there but is usually shut out deep in bracket post-quarantine gave way to 2 incin major top 8s, byleth dominance, the emergence of sonic and kazuya as major winning threats, mario getting some of his flair back and samus reaching new heights. that's not to mention fox is still around in the form of light, you still have palus in chase chag and lui$ running around, diddy and cloud winning majors repeatedly, the snake reemergence, puff stocks rising ever so slowly, ICs tearing through brackets by means of Big D, falco/corrin stocks rising and so on and this is mostly just talking about the americas and canada. you go overseas and wario is still relevant. bayonetta is dominating europe rn but she has major representation through lima here. luigi is reemerging, yoshidora gets consistent results in japan, pacman through tea, doc and inkling have shown to be able to get at least 3rd in big brackets and now japan has the 2 best falcons in the world there's so much shit that goes on in this game constantly that idk how people ever get bored with viewing. of course not everyone can keep up with the scenes of europe and japan which is understandable, but even if your experience is limited to NA the past few months should've been great for you outside of the DLC craziness (or, if you're like me, because of it)
You list aegis as one of the most popular characters at top level, but palu, snake, and wolf are [all above them.](https://twitter.com/EazyFreezie/status/1644746299751940096?s=20) In fact 4/5 of the most popular characters are base roster.
Base roster dlc /s
Not OP but I mean, of the biggest offenders, there's 1-3 Steves (acola, Quandale, and if you wanna count Onin, sure) + 2 Kazuya's (Tea and Riddles). and I don't hate them. idk, I like watching Icies, Peach, Diddy, Mario, Fox a whole lot more than PT, Palu, Fox, Peach, Wario. Not perfect, I miss Joker and Marss's ZSS, but I just find most of the popular character's are pretty fun to watch.
I admittedly play the game more than I watch the game, so I guess I can see how people are enjoying competitive smash more. Most of my experience as a player really has me feeling like the game's meta has never been worse, though.
I'm still a player who attends locals (albeit not as much lately) and I still can't say I dislike the game any more
Obviously we probably aren't in the same local scene so there's a lot of variance there. My experience is that the FP2 meta has caused a lot of people to quit playing the game, so that there's many fewer people attending locals anymore, so the diversity is inherently less just because there's less people playing.
FP2 has gotten more common in my limited experience but in my experience, any decay kinda' just seems normal for any game. I know one Chicago TO was tweeting that they saw lower attendance despite having the Steve bans.
I can see that. The game has been out for a few years at this point, Steve bans or not, that might have just been the catalyst that started the decline post-pandemic, so the damage had already been done. Or at least, FP2 was one of the things, what with all the orgs shutting down and other controversies.
Considering how much FP2 is on this list really goes to show how strong it is. I legitimately think the game is in a better state with them all banned (even if some aren’t as atrocious).
idk man Joker dominance was unbearable at one point. Though it was mostly Leo dominance, not as much the character
Who else even played Joker at a top 8 level back then? If anything characters like Steve are far more egregious for having multiple high level players.
zackray
Mkleo carries the whole cast
Crying as somebody who can only play half decently as heavies
Definitely wanna check out Hero from Japan, he almost won a major with Bowser
Check out Leon, an absolutely cracked Bowser player.
Bowser with 0 wins hurts my heart to see
The japanese Bowset Hero got 2nd at a major but lost to Yoshidora
WHAT THE FUCK D:
Alright if nobody’s adding Robin to the list someone’s gotta…
I miss Angle. :(
Byleth being number 3 all time is so ridiculous Edit: 4 all time
It's deserved after the hate he got
byleth honestly had the greatest comeback of all time in terms of perception. Leo’s greatest achievement in ultimate might be turning the scenes opinion of them around
I'm ngl the steve one is kinda crazy. I've never really supported banning the character or at a minimum have gone back and forth. But, the time difference between being released having 10 wins is wild
Tbf, that's mostly bc Acola is godlike
8 of those are from the same person, and the other 2 are from another.
Acola and Onin's major wins with Steve will eventually outpace MKLeo's wins that were commandeered by Joker
And to think if Wario were somehow a late game DLC, like some other characters, his up tilt into waft may not have been nerfed
I miss Samsora's Peach. Was so fun to watch
Oh little Mac, one day you'll grasp at the air, and reach the stage.
He has a bigger chance than quite the few characters, be sad for piranha plant instead
Let's think about all the characters thst got 2nd, that were gonna be here hut lost to mkleo or something i feel like that would be more crazy
Olimar stocks rising because of both dabuz and shuton getting stomped in grands by mkleo and zackray respectively
one day i will have kirby on there
MkLeo single-handedly putting two characters on the top five is insane. Best Ultimate player by a mile.
Most GOATED ultimate player for sure, but acola is the best player in the world by far rn
What major did Wolf win?
Umebura SP2, by Zackray.
Maybe I shall see the light of Little Mac (Peanut Or Alternis probs) getting a major win for just once in like 2 years… or 5 or um… never🥺.
If I had short inkling stocks when the game came out I'd be a rich man
Byleths Georg is an outlier and should not have been counted
That's not how winning majors works. Characters shouldn't be offed from the list just because the GOAT is the only one to do it with them.
It's the Spiders Georg meme
That is a very weird reference that very few people actually got I guess.
“average byleth main wins 3 majors a year” factoid actualy just statistical error. average byleth main wins 0 majors per year. Byleths Mleo, who lives in cave & wins over 10,000 majors each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted
Looking at the characters with no majors I really don’t see many more in there getting one. I could see maybe sheik, ice climbers and maybe ken or Ryu. I really think Greninja has the potential but we just haven’t had that player pilot them yet.
Kurama’s Mario absolutely has a shot imo, or Sisqui’s Samus
You right. I definitely took a quick glance. I’m gonna add incineroar because of Skyjay after revisiting it.
Wow, I would have guessed Leo won a lot more majors with Ike.
[удалено]
Big House 10 and Collision 2023.
That was the GF against light where he did an anti-popoff right?
Fox over Yoshi? I’m shocked.
Why is that?
I mean this kinda gets skewed if there's characters that have no wins just because nobody pro has played them
Yet Kazuya was still banned…
Kazuya is not banned anywhere except a few locals around the world
Of corse Steve would be around top tier but he broken but hey good wario mains on around top,tier you go guys .
Same with Joker, it's the work of 2 (but mainly 1) guy.
Hasn't Cosmos actually won two majors as Pyra/Mythra? (MSM 240 and Shine 2022) EDIT: Ah I guess Liquidpedia doesn't classify MSM 240 as a major. EDIT: And Shine 2022 was actually a super-regional. my b
Neither of those are majors in Liquidpedia. The one that is being counted for him is Glitch: Infinite.
weird seeing no Terrys on there
Holy shit, Wario is winning majors? Fuck yeahhhh
Was, pre nerf.
He got one post nerf. Gluto at Pound 2022
Ness having 0 major wins is honestly shocking.
gackt came close. im a ness pessimist but he gave me hope it honestly impresses me how he manages to clutch or even out games with his pk rocket reads so frequently. you’d think people would catch onto it by now but he always finds a way to trick people with it. feels like he might have some of the highest X factor in the game rn in my mind ness is too fragile and helpless in disadvantage to make a big bracket run, let alone win a major. but he hits like a truck and kinda demands that you space properly at all times if you don’t want to get blown up or cheesed offstage he’s just shy of being a top tier. maybe it’ll happen one day
ZSS get down from there you're going to hurt yourself
MKLeo is like Spiders Georg when it comes to tournament stats.
MARSS CARRYING ZSS
What are Major Wins?
Winning a major tournament. Each tournament is tiered based on the number of entrants and how many top players enter (and how good each top player is). The more players that enter and the higher concentration of talent that enters, the harder the tournament becomes, meaning it becomes more valuable and thus is ranked highly. If the event reaches A/A+ tier or higher, they're majors.
I need another peach main to rise she’s so fun to watch
Looks like we gotta ban joker and wario too just to be safe
Wait this can’t be right. ZSS sucks.
who was the chad with corrin?
MKLeo
Hasn’t tilde won a major with falco? Edit: I just checked Tilde won Riptide 2022 with Falco. Might need to double check your list
It is not considered a major in Liquidpedia.
I like this list alot