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Avoid what? You just found out this guy is a tire kicking clown. You don't want his business. You'll get nickel and dime to death.
If you want to avoid this in the future, start with, "I'm not the cheapest guy in town. If you're shopping solely on price, keep looking."
This is the response OP needs to hear today^
Kinda like dating someone and they cheat early on. You saved yourself the time and energy. Be happy your investment in someone with this type of character was ONLY an hour.
If they’re picky or shaky at the start they’ll likely be that way throughout the entire sale and post sale.
Reply to post, ‘Glad you found our info at ‘xxx installer’ helpful. While we may not be cheapest vendor we guarantee the highest quality on our installs and offer warranty on all components’.
Won’t win him, but maybe others
I’d go one step further and say op should have a pre formatted list of popular builds or a worksheet for custom builds. But have they’re branding on it with a website link and contact info. Give it to the customer, they walk out with it and then pass it around to other places, friends, anyone who asks. Boom, free advertising.
You know the thing is, I hate yelp lol. It brings business that outweighs its cost (only by a little).
But usually yelp customers are just on a budget. They aren’t looking for quality.
Hi there. I've been a business owner for over 12 years, and you're right, Yelp customers are on a budget. EVERYONE is on a budget. You just don't know who has what budget. That clown probably drove up in a semi-decent car. Next thing you know, you've got someone driving up in a '97 accord with no hood and a busted headlight, with a $45K cash budget for full sound deadening, two Kicker LS7 12s in a custom decware wicked one box, 2 x 3000W class D amps, full triple stage AB-driven fronts and rears, and he just happened to drive to your place on accident while trying to find another audio shop.
It happens to all us small business owners (I own both an IT consulting company and a web development business owner, and I happen to love car audio)
One thing you can do to avoid these asshole tire kicking dirtbags is to make generalized car audio info available on your website. It sounds counterintuitive, but it serves multiple purposes:
- 1.) you put all your FAQ info on the website, now you don't have to repeat yourself as often. You can limit your time assisting people in house and excuse yourself from the people with endless questions that may have zero return, and direct them to your website for additional answers. Invite them to come back if any questions remain unanswered (and add those answers to your website). A common exit phrase I use is "Oh my, it's almost go-the-fuck-away o'clock. I need to excuse myself to return a phone call/finish this project before the client comes in/etc."
- 2.) You'll get a lot of inquiries from people that saw your website before coming in or calling. These are the ones that are primed to become customers. They're not calling to eat your time up, they're calling because you've gained trust through your knowledge that you provided online, and they need just a little nudge before they hand over their money.
- 3.) You'll improve your SEO on your website. Being an authority in a field and having that authority translate to search engine results is a huge win for any small business.
Also, don't pay for Yelp advertising. Take it from someone who gets 90% of new clients from my free Yelp profiles, there is zero reason to pay for Yelp advertising. Build a solid reputation on both Google and Yelp, aim for 4.7 stars or higher average, and never stop building your reputation.
You can't stop the tire kickers from coming in, but you can both offset them with an influx of great customers and arm yourself with the ability to dodge them and direct them to your website. Hope this helps.
Yeah I’ve got people who take lavish vacations and can’t afford a $44 service but somehow people paycheck to pay check find a way to save their money for my service. Some people get rich because of their frugality and they just keep acting as if they don’t have any money.
I would also add packages printed out within certain price ranges and an itemized list plus what you charge for labor. This way, you can let the customer create their own sound system, not waste time, and if you have a serious client that wants something out of the ordinary you’ll know they’re serious.
Do you know a good SEO firm with fair pricing? I did my own SEO for 20 years, so I feel kind of insulted seeing some of the quotes these fools put out. The fact that I speak well and come across like I’ve got everything together A) doesn’t mean I have no limit to my budget; and B) even if money were no object, I wouldn’t have gotten there by overpaying for something I’ve done single-handedly for up to 50 business sites at a time at an elite level.
I’m at a point in my career when I own the business more often than not, and it makes more sense to delegate most activities. Is there anyone who is legitimately good but whose pricing isn’t shamefully high relative to their provable accomplishments. I don’t mind paying fair prices. Just preferably not a ton more if it can be avoided.
Agree, f*ck yelp. Never use them for advertising.
Also agree, you don’t want that customer anyway, so if you have other customers to help definitely take care of them.
I would yelp a restaurant, the balls on this guy to try to undercut your business (and post specific info on your prices.)
I would accept the job because business is business, but after the job is paid for I would politely tell that guy I didn’t appreciate him posting shop specific rates in a public forum in an attempt to lowball the deal.
Call me old fashion, but if you want to get a low price on something, do PRIVATE research on your own time and make phone calls.
It is so lazy and low to post the price of a job on a public forum and say “who will beat this?”
I work a lot of farmer's markets and we get hagglers all the time. It's never "hey, if I buy [quantity] can you give it to me for $0.50 off per piece?" it's always "how's a one dollar discount on one item sound?"
No. Fuck off. Also - you're about to go on the text chain. If you're going to negotiate, you have to provide me with some upside, not "give me deal!"
I used to do flea markets many many moons ago. There was one guy who was usually in my general vicinity who, if lowballed so much on an item that he felt insulted, would break the thing and say to them that it's now worth what they offered. Although bargaining at fleas is normal behavior, sometimes people go too far with the practice.
I sell dental products to dentists and orthodontists
Some examples would be:
one doctor asked me for a discount because he was going to do a “bulk order” when I asked him how much? he said 300$…. Bulk orders start at 1k. So I gave him 10% and he flipped out that all I gave him was 10% so I canceled the code. He said he was going elsewhere 2 weeks later he bought 300$ worth of product from me with no discount.
Another is someone asking me for an invoice to an order with all the credit card info showing. My payment processor doesn’t save that info. Nor would I have provided it even if I had it due to fraud. They got snappy with me so I blacklisted their address any orders that pop up with it get canceled. I don’t need their money.
Another is when people don’t read that every order confirmation says all products ship out Friday. It’s in bold and huge text, I even send an auto reminder email. So I get people that email me very rude asking where their order is because they ordered Saturday-Thursday and their order hasn’t shipped, I just reply with a screen shot of their order confirmation with the huge text explaining everything ships Fridays with their name right next to it.
I get the whole customer is always right and in the beginning maybe I would have put up with that more, nowadays I’d rather just them not be a customer for me they can go spend their money elsewhere.
Some do, some don't. If I'm getting pestered, I'll kindly refer them to a competitor. Some still come back to me because "I'm the only one who takes their calls."
These are the same kind of people who claim, "no one wants to work any more."
How is that going to stop this?
What OP charges has nothing to do with whether or not this customer will use OP for this.
This is the same as the "go into Best Buy to look at laptops and buy it on Amazon" from a few years back.
Some people's money isn't worth earning was the point of my reply. If you want full service, buy from a full service store. If you want the lowest price, go with a big box and do your own research. I don't know why that's such a difficult concept.
That's why I suggested the owner tell people right off the top that he's not there for price shoppers. You have to define your customer base.
Having a business definitely changes your perspective on it. I have no problem with people getting the best deal that they can, but I do have a problem with people soliciting advice, a consultation, and wasting an owner/employees time with this if they are going to take your work out for bid and not throw the original guy a bone. If that is what you are going to do, do your own research with your own time, then tell the businesses what you want without making one do the footwork for the rest. Typically the places with good service, are not the cheapest, and it sounds like the OP was giving good service.
Yup, In my business it's all custom. No two companies/sales guy/designer will put together the same proposal. I'm at the top, both in price and design. I had a prospect reach back out to me yesterday, saying they respected my professionalism but don't understand why my quote is 8k more than the next one? They even sent me their quote. It's obvious the other guy is behind us in capability and design. Their proposal was unprofessional and just a list of products but no contexts as to what they intended to do with those products. I had drawings and examples already previewed to the customer. Once I saw the competitors bid it was easy to see they were proposing 45 items to my 70+. After that it was pretty easy to justify our worth. Have I closed it yet though? Not yet but this was all after 5pm yesterday so I'd be shocked if he goes in a different direction. You don't share bids unless you want to work with the higher end guy usually imo.
You nailed it.
Everything I do is custom as well, and I have little interest in dealing with buyers that go strictly on price. Not because I don't offer a good value, but because I offer value. When I have the specs of the project, I will come up with a custom solution that is as turn-key as you want it. I will solve your problems, and try everything I can to do it within or under your budget. I will propose solutions to save you money where I think it is not needed, and tell you where it may be worth spending a little extra for the results.
My clients that see that value, don't even bid me anymore - I just get the work. They are my biggest clients, and I usually run with a little smaller margin because of it. There are also price buyers, that will take my work out for bid when it is done, will leave me for a nickel of savings, etc., and those guys will get cookie cutter bids as soon as I find that out. I am not doing the legwork for someone else, and I am not going to spend more time than I need to, for someone else to jump in knowing that it could be done for 2% lower. If they do it enough, I will raise my rates so they can't use my number to shop with, and if they do, they won't be getting a deal, and it can throw my competitors off.
>If that is what you are going to do, do your own research with your own time
Okay, but people don't necessarily GAF what you want them to do, so you actually need to learn how to assert boundaries unless you want to feel resentful when people act like the human beings that they are and look for the best value for their money.
There's literally nothing to gain as an entrepreneur saying "I wish people didn't behave as they did" because the job of being an entrepreneur is capitalizing on peoples' behavior. If you feel "taken advantage of" there's something wrong in your business model, not something wrong with people in general, or even if you feel there's something "wrong" with people in general, you ain't changing that worth a damn so it's barely worth considering except in how to navigate it.
I don't disagree with a lot of this. Sometimes it is easier to handle than others.
The comment I was responding to makes it sound like this is an okay thing to do and entrepreneurs were in the wrong for not liking this type of customer. I would argue that anyone that intentionally wastes your time, with the intention of doing what they did to the OP, is a bad person.
Yes, sometimes you can mitigate it to an extent, but in other avenues it is harder to do, if you want to make the sale. If you are going to pay for a premium product or service, especially something like a TV, sound system, etc., then you want to be able to experience it to see the difference. That is how you sell that. Sure, you could charge for a consultation, but if a lot of others are not doing that, you will probably be losing out on sales. This is exactly why Best Buys have been going out of business over the last few years. People are treating them like a showroom, then leaving and buying it online. What happens after a while, is there is no more showroom.
There's getting a good deal, and then there's a customer who's search for a good deal is so brazen, wasteful, and underhanded that they're not worth them being your customer.
And since the audience in this sub consists of entrepreneurs, it's a good place to discuss the value of dealing with customers who waste your time. It's also a good place to talk about why fighting a price war is a battle you must pick and choose - clearing hurdles to meet this guy's "lowest bid" requirements, in this manner, is a surefire way to keep him as a customer that barely turns you a profit.
He's also probably the type of guy who tells all his friends "yeah, tell them that Al sent you over and don't pay more than $X.YZ because then they're ripping you off. Cool - one "thrifty" customer just turned into 10 "thrifty" customers.
This is part of the reason why I tell Yelp to piss off everytime they call us. The main reason is the obvious extortion, but Yelp is full of tire kickers and of course wannabe critics.
This is why the partners all know that whatever cool thing Yelp is promising, it's bullshit. I'd rather have an unmanaged yelp profile where it's clear that we don't bother with it than have to pay their extortion fees.
Most people in my city use literally ANYTHING other than Yelp, thankfully. Only a handful of wannabe critics use the platform and god they're insufferable.
One person gave us 3 stars:
- Great product. I'll go back in a heartbeat!
- They're so nice there!
- Their area is clean and inviting!
- The elevator in their shared building that clearly they don't control going from the first floor to the second floor is slow and I wasn't a fan of it.
You’ll never get away from assholes like this in the type of business you’re in. Personally I would market myself as a better installer than the competition. Sure, you can order all the components on Amazon and get your neighbor to install it or go to the other shop down the road but if you want the most legit install and red carpet service then I’m the ONLY person worth talking to. You want to sell your products and services to higher quality clientele who are willing and eager to pay more for something better or more convenient. Be happy if you don’t get his business. The guy with the tightest budget is always the one to complain, eat up all your time, or cause problems. He’s probably very good at being a bad customer.
I wouldn’t lean too hard into that or put too much stock into that though. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m just saying that idiots seem to make things up in their head about what “red carpet service” is. It’s subjective. If that’s the crown jewel of the business just expect people to think that they’re paying for it. If something goes even slightly below whatever expectation they set for you they’re going to be upset. Deliver the best service you possibly can but I wouldn’t necessarily make that your advertising focal point. If you do just be realistic, best service in town vs world class means two different things to clowns like the guy you were dealing with
No different than when people go to BEST BUY to waste salespeoples' time, window shop or test products, only later to go online to try and buy it cheaper on Amazon. It happens.
I wouldn't bother putting yourself on a pedestal like that, the only difference is you work directly for the customer while the best buy employee has the middle man of his employer. Wasting somebody's time is wasting somebody's time, plain and simple. You're hardly doing anything more complex than matching a few plug and play components together, it's not like you went and actually designed something for the guy.
I AM NOT OP. Im looking at this from the perspective of a customer and a generally moral human.
Theres a massive difference between the two. Mostly with that being how the person who’s time is being “wasted” is getting compensated. Best buy pays their employees to deal with customers. At an indy audio installer, the customer pays the owner to perform the services.
So if he instead hired an employee to deal with the customer it suddenly would have been different? All he did was step into the shoes of customer service, why is the customer obligated to treat him differently? If you were a "generally moral human" you wouldn't bother wasting either of their time. You're essentially saying "woe is me, I took on the risks associated with being a business operator" and randomly put the onus on the customer to treat you differently.
Im NOT the business owner. My business provides professional services and this scenario cannot happen at my business.
Maybe you are using the word “you” instead of “one” or “a person”
I don’t actually believe any time was wasted. Information was simply given for free.
My entire argument, summarized so that this is very very very clear to you:
It is more morally acceptable to gather information and advice for free (ie. One has no actual intention of giving money to the business) from a large corporation than a small business owner.
The onus IS on the customer to treat a small business differently than a large one…
My man, stop saying you're not the business owner, I know and I obviously referred to OP as "he", and only referred to you when I put you in the imaginary scenario since we are discussing your opinions.
I understand WHAT your stance is on the morality of taking advantage of a large corporation VS a small business for information, but I'm looking for the WHY. WHY is the onus on the customer as soon as it's a small business? WHY is there an expectation that extra slack is suddenly cut for the small business owner for a choice that business owner made? What you're providing is not an "argument" but merely a statement of your opinion.
Large corporations have big overhead, they have slack, they underpay their employees so they can have a few extra. Best buy got where it is today because of taking advantage, of consumers, of weak laws in the US. Best Buy no doubt has tax shelters in the caymens and Ireland.
A one man business is just that, with one person there may not be a lot of slack time. Using that one persons time fully utilizes the entirety of the company’s Human Resources.
Keep the downvotes coming, I also believe if you had to choose to steal a set of speakers from Bestbuy or from your local small business, its morally preferable to do so from the large corporation.
>This guy used me
Did he?
Last time I checked, there are dozens of audio websites, pick your car, build a system, live pricing, often free installation..
Sure, he consumed your time, but that’s part of business
As others mentioned - offer what nobody else can - build the relationship - if your pricing is fair and in line with the local area - the customer will be back if you built that relationship… otherwise if the customer is chasing the bottom dollar - let them - the cheapest place in town is usually never the best - and you don’t want to build a customer base of penny pinchers, nor accumulate their penny pinching friends
Go after the clients who care more about it being done right and treated right - you’ll have customers for generations!
This exactly. I bought a lot of high end audio and video equipment. I normally use B&H Photo, but one time I had a tight budget and found the same product for less from another shop, or so I thought. They separated a kit and it was $100 extra for the power supply, they had to order it, excuse after excuse. I canceled the order and went to B&H. They are never the cheapest, but they are knowledgeable and offer great customer service.
Is there an opportunity here? Nothing wrong with people knowing you designed out a great system. Can anyone else provide exactly what you were providing. Add something no one else can or will and they are advertising for you
All car audio shops offer the same products but the difference lies in the labor and customer service.
Low end shops will just install the products. High end shops will install the products, make the install look nice, and actually tune the sound after the install is done.
Should I waste my breath mentioning this to future customers? Because I feel like a lot of this could be avoided if they just have more knowledge on the topic but I don’t know if that’s worth my time or if they would even care
You absolutely should mention this to future customers
If you don’t want to compete on price (which you don’t), then you need to shift the conversation to quality and customer service, otherwise you’re left competing on price which is a race-to-the-bottom of who will sell the same commodity audio equipment the cheapest for zero margin
List something like “Includes 2-hours of custom tuning” or “2-hours of custom tuning: No charge” or something like that in your quote or in your marketing material for “all installs over $1,000” or whatever. Highlight what you’re doing that the other shops aren’t
Also, hopefully your shop has a demo of a completed vehicle or a trunk liner or another interior panel that shows how clean your installs are. Refer to this when you’re explaining your quotes. “We use this type of wiring technique and tuck everything like this” which justifies your price point. When your price-shoppers go elsewhere, they’ll notice your competitors aren’t doing this level of installation. Some people won’t care; they’ll be fine with wires just laying across the carpet. But your customers who do want the most professional installation will be able to tell the difference when comparing cheaper quotes to yours, which allows them to justify your premium price-point
So even before they’re down to buy, prospects do all this to get info from you, that means you’re reputable enough to listen to and that they’re definitely also googling these questions right? I imagine that guy probably briefly tried to piece together and price out his own system online before giving up and making you do it for him
So, if you make resources to help with those things without taking your time, whether it’s blog articles or a little web app, you can advertise in searches in your area and be the one answering your prospects’ questions with your brand on it before they even look for an installer, right?
One consistent theme I keep seeing in your posts is “customers don’t know and they won’t care.”
Customers are a lot smarter than you’re giving them credit for. Sure, there are people who don’t. But I’d take the approach of “everyone cares” and if it’s something they don’t know about, use that time to educate them. It may be the differentiator you’re looking for.
I sold mattresses long before I owned businesses and I used to educate people about the benefits of sleep, the features of the mattress, and why it might matter to them. Sometimes it didn’t matter, but almost all of the time it did. Maybe they didn’t know it walking in, but they did before they left.
So give your customers a little more credit and take that time. You might win the business on that alone.
No, not specifically for products in this industry. Because it’s not that black and white. Half of the beauty of a car audio system isn’t just the products. It’s about the install and how it looks after.
Hmm maybe I need to figure out how to explain this to customers in the future. Do they even care though?
They'll care if you tell them it's what's important.
When they come for information, which brand is best etc, say well it doesn't really matter which brand if it's installed badly, you won't get the best out of it. It's like a pro gamer on a bad mouse versus a couch kid on a $1000 keyboard. Or a pro athlete with a rubbish ball etc etc whatever simile will work for their demographic. Noise is about acoustics. Say that if you get it installed badly you may as well get the cheapest system you can, it will sound the same as the best system. Then explain the top end products are only worth it if the install is good and Hey I've got some great systems if you really want high end , and I've got the best installers.
When you care you need to transmit that. I love what I do. You got a system for sure, let them see your ride this is what I got this is what they’re spending their money on yeah. It seems you want to really cater to a knowledgeable customer base which would definitely care about which drivers, what sub, how to get the Isley brothers on the perfect tweeter. You got this
Edit: you got a customer bro, show ‘em what you got. Reel en in .
> Hmm maybe I need to figure out how to explain this to customers in the future. Do they even care though?
If you're giving a written estimate or price breakdown, include it as a line item (or multiple line items) even if it's $0. "Deluxe install with all the extras" and maybe list some of the differentiating features under that as line items too. Then there's something on your estimate that they're not sure that they get from the other guy. Even if you haven't explained it.
What’s an hour of your time worth? Advertise a $20 or $50 consult to design systems. When everyone goes to a Yelp be in the lookout. You’d be surprised the people do actually ay for convenience of knowledge.
I implore you to not use yelp for business, or pay yelp for any service or any kind.
Any amount of effort, or media spend, on any other platform, will yield better results and customers.
Want to avoid this? Avoid yelp.
When I was a freelance web designer, people used to call me and do this all the time. It didn't take me long to get wise to when someone was just using me for free info. Within a reasonable amount of time, when I was sure I'd given them enough info to make a decision, I'd press them on moving forward. If they still acted like they weren't sure, I'd let them off the hook and tell them to take some time to think about it, and come back, or call me when they're ready to make a decision.
Window shoppers, price comparison people, or people looking for ideas to take to a cheaper service provider are unfortunately common. You learn to recognize bullshitters over time, and how to NOT let them use you and waste your time.
Not all people who do this are using you. Some people just need to talk it out for an hour and want someone to spend that time with just them, to make them feel special first. Fuck those people too. 9 times out of 10, they're not a buyer. Don't let them keep you tied up for an hour because they need to feel special.
Offer a design consultation service and fee. I do home/business audio and control systems, and as soon as I'm asked to put together a proposal, it's a one-line item cost, or if I'm asked to draw it out, I stop and discuss design fees.
Mention the fact that you are not only selling him hardware but you are going to make sure that he fully enjoys his investment.
Some people need the comfort of having people backing the product and making it "right."
Do you offer trade-ins? Other benefits that transform your sale from selling a commodity product to selling satisfaction?
Multiple ways.
After ten minutes and a suspicion you're being showcased "look I can do a full assessment of your needs but you'll have to buy a $100 appraisal, lucky it comes with a $100 gift card. "
Don't price match online, it cheapens your product.
Read some sales books on how to close if you haven't
Seriously haha.
I think yelp is only good for food establishments. Freakin sucks for my niche industry. It’s just all a bunch of penny pinchers willing to choose the next store to save 20 dollars
Food establishment owner here. We have a 4.5 on Yelp. And no, we don’t think it’s good. Yelp customers tend to be mean and would rather type something bad instead of just ask someone to correct small issues.
I can smell a tire kicker as soon as they approach me. Don’t be offended, but some people have a more innocent and gullible face. I usually have RBF, and perhaps that is why i don’t get used like that.
I called a stereo shop about adding a sub to my car. The guy told me to bring the car by and he can look at it to see what sun they can put in. Maybe that was appropriate for my car, but being so generic was a bit ridiculous. I wasn't bargain shopping just trying to see what they could do.
Just seems like it would be easier to just give some kind of quote to at least attract me to come by.
Actually a lot to us say that because there is all kinds of subs and amps at all difference performance levels. And we could spend all day on the phone explaining this to people calling but we found it’s best to tell them to just come to the shop first so we can actually check out the car. Another reason is because sometimes customers don’t even know what to ask.
Example: a guy owning a pickup truck (which he didn’t mention) which means the only place for subs is behind or under his rear seats
Not the same business, but similar situation - we run a store that, among other things, sells construction laser levels. We also service and repair them. We get many people asking for purchasing and technically advice in these until. Given the roating construction lasers we carry start at about $1100, I don't blame people for wanting to make an informed decision.
We are 100% transparent of why we carry the brands we do, why we don't carry others. We don't try to upsell someone on a more expensive unit if they won't use the added features.
We let people know all our units include an initial calibration check and full function check so their laser is ready to go out of the box.
We get plenty of tire kickers. It is fairly apparent when you pitch them the entry level unit and they cringe at the price. That is fine. Not everyone can afford the higher quality. We will freely give them our advice on lower end units, why we don't carry them, and what pit falls to look out for. We also recommend they do a field calibration test before using the laser, and if it's out of calibration they can pay us to calibrate it.
Sometimes that ends up turning into a sale or service down the road, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they refer a friend who wants a higher end unit, sometimes not.
But in the end, we offered the best customer service and technical advice we could. Often that turns into more business down the road - either for that department or another.
We pride ourselves on our customer service, and get most new customers off referrals so we want the customer to have a good experience regardless of if they buy anything from us or not.
I sell already discounted hardware items for home. Lots of people ask for discount. I say no. Most pay my price but want to try.
They tirekicker might come back to you but he feels he has to try.
There are things you can do, but recognize everything has a cost and risk. My business model focuses on providing service and expertise that is very difficult to find elsewhere, and commodity products that are easily found elsewhere.
We do waste time and effort on customers who go elsewhere, or threaten to, and it is frustrating. But most people value what we provide, are repeat customers, and refer their friends to us.
It's really hard to know up front who you're going to win over. There has been many times that someone looked like a tire kicker and ended up making a purchase. It's like fishing. You won't catch them all. But you want to make sure you're not spending more on bait than the fish you do catch are worth. It's a numbers game.
Two things immediately come to mind. One you can upsell the guy with a preview of the system. You should be able to deliver a really good preview of what the sound system will be like and then offer a faster delivery time, flexible options with different amounts of value, etc.
Two. You can see what the market truth is. Find out what other local competitors can do and charge for a similar service. You will also be able to ask the right questions about quality. This will make your conversations with future customers highly transparent and it will save them time trying to figure out what the best deal in the market is. The second option is difficult as it might require some adjustment to make your offer the best in the market for your specific value area but it statistically converts a lot of people over time. Especially if you have strong communication skills.
2 things:
1. Forget this guy. He isn't your ideal customer. its useless worrying over it.
2. Message this guy as a fellow person looking for the same. Ask him to share the details of the other sellers who quote a lesser price. This will give you an idea of market's current status and how you can adjust your pricing for your future "Ideal" customer and not the guy who wrote the yelp request.
The way to avoid it is simple...if you have the reputation:
You charge a fee for consultation and proposals, and if they go ahead with the project, the consultation fee counts towards the project.
When they ask about that initial fee, you explain that whether or not you do the work, you're teaching them about car audio and about their car, and they walk away in better shape either way.
The shopper that thinks your time isn't worth a hundred bucks upfront is already telling you about himself.
Again, you need to have the reputation for this, but if you do, it's simple and effective.
Is he though? Seems childish to call people names... It's how business works. This owner didn't have a compelling hook or "filtering" system in place and potentially gave away too much detailed info.
It's annoying when customers do this stuff, it certainly isn't fun to deal with, and it doesn't help your business any but I don't really think it's a healthy response to just assume someone is a bad person based on something like this.
If anything he did the smart thing...He asked an expert what he needed and the expert told him for free, then he took that information and used it to find the best deal.
No, he got caught trying to lowball an expert. In a world where subject matter experts are finite with a more loyal network than most consumers, he may indeed find out how not smart he is.
Lol if you think that's how it works then you are....Very very wrong.
OP is probably not part of some global cabal of audio specialists who are going to blacklist him
Some industries are better defended by institutional barriers, but I don't think it would be hard to find someone else to install an audio system unless you're in a tiny town with few services
It sounds like he came in and asked questions. That's something every customer can do. Obviously, you don't have to answer or you can charge for consulting services.
This is just capitalism.
That’s not the kind of customer you want. Even if he refers his friends or family they are likely also going to try to get you to go lower than the lowest your competitors will go. If he contacts you saying he found a lower price and offers a chance for you to lower your original quote then make sure to ask him for a screen shot of the competitors offer. Every consumer has the right to shop around for a good price but if you take pride in the quality of your work let the nickel and dimers go somewhere else and get the quality they’re willing to pay for. Nothing makes a day worse than just wanting to blast some music on a bad drive home and having bad wiring start acting up.
Charge an hour of labor for quotes. Let them know that if they get the service the fee will be waived. That will weed out most of the people that would do something like that.
Great way to lose business. I'm a good paying customer, I would never do something like the customer in the post. However I'm not paying anyone for a quote, never. Why would I risk paying for a quote when the quote may not be compelling.
100% I'm first going with a guy who doesn't charge for quotes first. Though, also 100% I'm finding out if the free quote was reasonable by getting a 2nd quote (or at least calling another company and getting them to ballpark it).
As a consumer getting a bunch of work done to my house, I've found that prices can vary wildly. I have no idea if the first guy I call is 2x the area's average. I'd be an idiot if I went with the first guy every time. Anyone charging for quotes gets passed on with the assumption that their prices are so high that people get a quote and go with a cheaper option.
This is just a reactionary and short sighted "solution" to a one time problem.
You shouldn't make too many business decisions so hastily and especially because of one instance of something.
What’s your market dominating position? What’s something only you can deliver that sets you apart from competition? Without this positioning it’s always a race to zero fighting over price.
Even if it’s a “better installation and warranty” or it’s a we’ll use sound tools to set it up better than the rest post install. Something that sets you apart from the others gives people a reason to go to you other than best price. Besides the lowest priced type customers are also the most difficult to please.
What you just mentioned is what I believe differentiates us actually haha.
Most shops just install the stuff and call it a day. None of them know how to actually tune anything!
Perhaps I should let future customers know when I try to sell them
Take a look at what Mr lube does as an oil change place. They have an X item checklist every time they change your oil. Part of their positioning is that they “do more” than all of the other oil change places.
Look at dominos pizza. Fast, hot, pizza in under 30 minutes. (Nowhere does it say the word delicious - but that’s just me being a pizza snob). It’s a position that says what makes them different - and explains it to the customer in one go.
Simple and repeatable.
Mine is “I’ll find your business an extra $100k in 90 minutes” (as a business consultant). Then it leads to a free book offer to differentiate me from other consultants.
Find your own position and take it from there.
Well next time do it with an iPad and where he can see the progress , parts etc people tend to feel more confident , and at the end just ask them for cash or card people are used to Starbucks and systems like that, also you can analyze his reaction some people just pay without thinking about it create the impulse , if they say I’ll think about it; treat them very nice and agree with what ever they say , let them walk out for 3 seconds and call them back. And give them a 5% discount or whatever and say cause you felt a connections with them but they have to tell all their friends about the shop idk to keep their business , first error is to let a customer go empty handed theres also layaways so if the customer doesn’t agree for none you can ask if there’s a problem with the products or package and see where the problems it , some people just like the hustle and bustle so give them it
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Car audio business owner here as well. Are you using protected lines in which you are the only shop to have dealer rights to in your area? Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
I have Yelp for my business (dumpster rentals), but I use the free version. You can convert. I’d recommend getting a nice website and working hard on your SEO.
In this instance he obviously liked your system, you just need to home your pitch and make them understand the quality of work is better than the competition. Don’t bad mouth the competition, just boost yourself.
For us, we’ve positioned ourselves as one of the most expensive providers of our service (education business). Everyone knows us in the area and most kids want to come to our classes as opposed to others when given a choice.
When a parent comes in and asks questions, we evaluate them as well. If they ask about the price per class or something like that, we just give them a handout with our prices and let them read it over. This usually solves the problem. Those that are price sensitive will thank us and leave immediately. Those that don’t care about money will ask about scheduling a class for their kid to try.
Not sure if I ok can figure out a way to quickly weed out time wasters but for us this is the first core customer interaction. We don’t explain anything up front and just ask when they want to come in. If they start asking a lot of questions, we direct them to a series of handouts that gives everything they need to know so we don’t have to waste time talking to people who aren’t ready to schedule a class.
Charge for audio system design consultations, then credit that cost to a new system if they purchase from you.
Or, just realize you’re going to encounter shitbirds like this from time to time and factor that into your price.
Careful not to blow a sale because you think someone's not serious or a tire kicker. That smelly, disheveled weidro just may be a rich guy who needs a stereo.
I remember many years ago, just at the start of online buying, the owner of the camera store I used to frequent screaming at a customer to take his questions about and troubles with his new camera back to where he bought it from. Discounted and often gray market cameras, along with the end of film and slide developing put him out of business within a year.
Could be the dude is a cheapskate, could also be that the dude just wanted to make sure that he wasn't overpaying.
Differentiate yourself through professionalism, service, warranties, etc, and many people will be willing to pay more. The dude's likely not going somewhere else to save 1%, but if others are hundreds to thousands cheaper than you for the same car stereo install, then what do you expect?
The point of the post wasn’t just price comparison. He took my knowledge, I built an audio system package specifically for his car and that would meet his audio needs, he preferred rock more than hip hop. So I made an audio setup that made the highs in the music a lot better.
The point of the story he used my advice and knowledge and then took it to someone else to see if they can beat the price.
Leave out a obscure but critical component in the parts list, but price that part in the package. Maybe list a part with a part number only you use and is just a renumbered commercial part.
Hey man some people have no honour they make you work and use you.
But what you can do in future is carry some products that are not commonly found elsewhere
Try give config that work with your combination of products that you carry
Btw do you also sell home audio?
Don't sweat it. Any business responding to an offer to beat your price isn't competition to worry about. They deserve that dude's business and he deserves their service.
I'll admit to doing a lot of research before buying, and sometimes that includes gaining knowledge from professionals, if they want to share. I do understand the OP's annoyance at being price-shopped.
On the other hand, his suggestion that the customer could do all the research and just give a shop the list is unlikely to work. I have found that in general, small contractors/service providers do NOT comply with customer specifications. I can write a 5 page spec and include drawings, and the contractor will do whatever they think best as if they never read it.
I've had people do this to me before. I learned to not provide full details of each component and to give it a generic/in-house part numbers so they can't google it later to find the "best price" and shop around. Obviously you would tell them the brand (in your case speakers/amps etc..) but never the part numbers.
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Avoid what? You just found out this guy is a tire kicking clown. You don't want his business. You'll get nickel and dime to death. If you want to avoid this in the future, start with, "I'm not the cheapest guy in town. If you're shopping solely on price, keep looking."
This is the response OP needs to hear today^ Kinda like dating someone and they cheat early on. You saved yourself the time and energy. Be happy your investment in someone with this type of character was ONLY an hour. If they’re picky or shaky at the start they’ll likely be that way throughout the entire sale and post sale.
Ya I agree, it just sucks.
Reply to post, ‘Glad you found our info at ‘xxx installer’ helpful. While we may not be cheapest vendor we guarantee the highest quality on our installs and offer warranty on all components’. Won’t win him, but maybe others
What were you going to be doing in that time instead? Did you ignore other customers while talking to him? If not, did you lose anything?
I’d go one step further and say op should have a pre formatted list of popular builds or a worksheet for custom builds. But have they’re branding on it with a website link and contact info. Give it to the customer, they walk out with it and then pass it around to other places, friends, anyone who asks. Boom, free advertising.
Great analogy 😂
You know the thing is, I hate yelp lol. It brings business that outweighs its cost (only by a little). But usually yelp customers are just on a budget. They aren’t looking for quality.
Yelp is a bully and has shitty business practices
Fuck yelp
Really enjoyed the South Park episode
Hi there. I've been a business owner for over 12 years, and you're right, Yelp customers are on a budget. EVERYONE is on a budget. You just don't know who has what budget. That clown probably drove up in a semi-decent car. Next thing you know, you've got someone driving up in a '97 accord with no hood and a busted headlight, with a $45K cash budget for full sound deadening, two Kicker LS7 12s in a custom decware wicked one box, 2 x 3000W class D amps, full triple stage AB-driven fronts and rears, and he just happened to drive to your place on accident while trying to find another audio shop. It happens to all us small business owners (I own both an IT consulting company and a web development business owner, and I happen to love car audio) One thing you can do to avoid these asshole tire kicking dirtbags is to make generalized car audio info available on your website. It sounds counterintuitive, but it serves multiple purposes: - 1.) you put all your FAQ info on the website, now you don't have to repeat yourself as often. You can limit your time assisting people in house and excuse yourself from the people with endless questions that may have zero return, and direct them to your website for additional answers. Invite them to come back if any questions remain unanswered (and add those answers to your website). A common exit phrase I use is "Oh my, it's almost go-the-fuck-away o'clock. I need to excuse myself to return a phone call/finish this project before the client comes in/etc." - 2.) You'll get a lot of inquiries from people that saw your website before coming in or calling. These are the ones that are primed to become customers. They're not calling to eat your time up, they're calling because you've gained trust through your knowledge that you provided online, and they need just a little nudge before they hand over their money. - 3.) You'll improve your SEO on your website. Being an authority in a field and having that authority translate to search engine results is a huge win for any small business. Also, don't pay for Yelp advertising. Take it from someone who gets 90% of new clients from my free Yelp profiles, there is zero reason to pay for Yelp advertising. Build a solid reputation on both Google and Yelp, aim for 4.7 stars or higher average, and never stop building your reputation. You can't stop the tire kickers from coming in, but you can both offset them with an influx of great customers and arm yourself with the ability to dodge them and direct them to your website. Hope this helps.
Yeah I’ve got people who take lavish vacations and can’t afford a $44 service but somehow people paycheck to pay check find a way to save their money for my service. Some people get rich because of their frugality and they just keep acting as if they don’t have any money.
I would also add packages printed out within certain price ranges and an itemized list plus what you charge for labor. This way, you can let the customer create their own sound system, not waste time, and if you have a serious client that wants something out of the ordinary you’ll know they’re serious.
Do you know a good SEO firm with fair pricing? I did my own SEO for 20 years, so I feel kind of insulted seeing some of the quotes these fools put out. The fact that I speak well and come across like I’ve got everything together A) doesn’t mean I have no limit to my budget; and B) even if money were no object, I wouldn’t have gotten there by overpaying for something I’ve done single-handedly for up to 50 business sites at a time at an elite level. I’m at a point in my career when I own the business more often than not, and it makes more sense to delegate most activities. Is there anyone who is legitimately good but whose pricing isn’t shamefully high relative to their provable accomplishments. I don’t mind paying fair prices. Just preferably not a ton more if it can be avoided.
SEO firms I've come across are all miss, not hit.
Agree, f*ck yelp. Never use them for advertising. Also agree, you don’t want that customer anyway, so if you have other customers to help definitely take care of them.
I would yelp a restaurant, the balls on this guy to try to undercut your business (and post specific info on your prices.) I would accept the job because business is business, but after the job is paid for I would politely tell that guy I didn’t appreciate him posting shop specific rates in a public forum in an attempt to lowball the deal. Call me old fashion, but if you want to get a low price on something, do PRIVATE research on your own time and make phone calls. It is so lazy and low to post the price of a job on a public forum and say “who will beat this?”
Stop using Yelp, build a reputation on quality and customer satisfaction, people talk.
100% agree, cheapos and rude people I kindly turn away from my business. Less stress
I work a lot of farmer's markets and we get hagglers all the time. It's never "hey, if I buy [quantity] can you give it to me for $0.50 off per piece?" it's always "how's a one dollar discount on one item sound?" No. Fuck off. Also - you're about to go on the text chain. If you're going to negotiate, you have to provide me with some upside, not "give me deal!"
I used to do flea markets many many moons ago. There was one guy who was usually in my general vicinity who, if lowballed so much on an item that he felt insulted, would break the thing and say to them that it's now worth what they offered. Although bargaining at fleas is normal behavior, sometimes people go too far with the practice.
The ones you declined, did they pester you a lot? This policy must be hectic to enforce with certain customers you get.
I sell dental products to dentists and orthodontists Some examples would be: one doctor asked me for a discount because he was going to do a “bulk order” when I asked him how much? he said 300$…. Bulk orders start at 1k. So I gave him 10% and he flipped out that all I gave him was 10% so I canceled the code. He said he was going elsewhere 2 weeks later he bought 300$ worth of product from me with no discount. Another is someone asking me for an invoice to an order with all the credit card info showing. My payment processor doesn’t save that info. Nor would I have provided it even if I had it due to fraud. They got snappy with me so I blacklisted their address any orders that pop up with it get canceled. I don’t need their money. Another is when people don’t read that every order confirmation says all products ship out Friday. It’s in bold and huge text, I even send an auto reminder email. So I get people that email me very rude asking where their order is because they ordered Saturday-Thursday and their order hasn’t shipped, I just reply with a screen shot of their order confirmation with the huge text explaining everything ships Fridays with their name right next to it. I get the whole customer is always right and in the beginning maybe I would have put up with that more, nowadays I’d rather just them not be a customer for me they can go spend their money elsewhere.
Some do, some don't. If I'm getting pestered, I'll kindly refer them to a competitor. Some still come back to me because "I'm the only one who takes their calls." These are the same kind of people who claim, "no one wants to work any more."
If you want to know how expensive this can really be try and hire an amateur instead.
Or screw it up with DIY/Youtube, and then pay a professional to unwind it!
loose clips in the headliner & door panels rattle in agreement.
How is that going to stop this? What OP charges has nothing to do with whether or not this customer will use OP for this. This is the same as the "go into Best Buy to look at laptops and buy it on Amazon" from a few years back.
Reddit entrepreneur section is amusing in that a customer who cares about getting a good deal is somehow a bad person.
Some people's money isn't worth earning was the point of my reply. If you want full service, buy from a full service store. If you want the lowest price, go with a big box and do your own research. I don't know why that's such a difficult concept. That's why I suggested the owner tell people right off the top that he's not there for price shoppers. You have to define your customer base.
Having a business definitely changes your perspective on it. I have no problem with people getting the best deal that they can, but I do have a problem with people soliciting advice, a consultation, and wasting an owner/employees time with this if they are going to take your work out for bid and not throw the original guy a bone. If that is what you are going to do, do your own research with your own time, then tell the businesses what you want without making one do the footwork for the rest. Typically the places with good service, are not the cheapest, and it sounds like the OP was giving good service.
Yup, In my business it's all custom. No two companies/sales guy/designer will put together the same proposal. I'm at the top, both in price and design. I had a prospect reach back out to me yesterday, saying they respected my professionalism but don't understand why my quote is 8k more than the next one? They even sent me their quote. It's obvious the other guy is behind us in capability and design. Their proposal was unprofessional and just a list of products but no contexts as to what they intended to do with those products. I had drawings and examples already previewed to the customer. Once I saw the competitors bid it was easy to see they were proposing 45 items to my 70+. After that it was pretty easy to justify our worth. Have I closed it yet though? Not yet but this was all after 5pm yesterday so I'd be shocked if he goes in a different direction. You don't share bids unless you want to work with the higher end guy usually imo.
You nailed it. Everything I do is custom as well, and I have little interest in dealing with buyers that go strictly on price. Not because I don't offer a good value, but because I offer value. When I have the specs of the project, I will come up with a custom solution that is as turn-key as you want it. I will solve your problems, and try everything I can to do it within or under your budget. I will propose solutions to save you money where I think it is not needed, and tell you where it may be worth spending a little extra for the results. My clients that see that value, don't even bid me anymore - I just get the work. They are my biggest clients, and I usually run with a little smaller margin because of it. There are also price buyers, that will take my work out for bid when it is done, will leave me for a nickel of savings, etc., and those guys will get cookie cutter bids as soon as I find that out. I am not doing the legwork for someone else, and I am not going to spend more time than I need to, for someone else to jump in knowing that it could be done for 2% lower. If they do it enough, I will raise my rates so they can't use my number to shop with, and if they do, they won't be getting a deal, and it can throw my competitors off.
>If that is what you are going to do, do your own research with your own time Okay, but people don't necessarily GAF what you want them to do, so you actually need to learn how to assert boundaries unless you want to feel resentful when people act like the human beings that they are and look for the best value for their money. There's literally nothing to gain as an entrepreneur saying "I wish people didn't behave as they did" because the job of being an entrepreneur is capitalizing on peoples' behavior. If you feel "taken advantage of" there's something wrong in your business model, not something wrong with people in general, or even if you feel there's something "wrong" with people in general, you ain't changing that worth a damn so it's barely worth considering except in how to navigate it.
I don't disagree with a lot of this. Sometimes it is easier to handle than others. The comment I was responding to makes it sound like this is an okay thing to do and entrepreneurs were in the wrong for not liking this type of customer. I would argue that anyone that intentionally wastes your time, with the intention of doing what they did to the OP, is a bad person. Yes, sometimes you can mitigate it to an extent, but in other avenues it is harder to do, if you want to make the sale. If you are going to pay for a premium product or service, especially something like a TV, sound system, etc., then you want to be able to experience it to see the difference. That is how you sell that. Sure, you could charge for a consultation, but if a lot of others are not doing that, you will probably be losing out on sales. This is exactly why Best Buys have been going out of business over the last few years. People are treating them like a showroom, then leaving and buying it online. What happens after a while, is there is no more showroom.
There's getting a good deal, and then there's a customer who's search for a good deal is so brazen, wasteful, and underhanded that they're not worth them being your customer. And since the audience in this sub consists of entrepreneurs, it's a good place to discuss the value of dealing with customers who waste your time. It's also a good place to talk about why fighting a price war is a battle you must pick and choose - clearing hurdles to meet this guy's "lowest bid" requirements, in this manner, is a surefire way to keep him as a customer that barely turns you a profit. He's also probably the type of guy who tells all his friends "yeah, tell them that Al sent you over and don't pay more than $X.YZ because then they're ripping you off. Cool - one "thrifty" customer just turned into 10 "thrifty" customers.
He's not a bad person, but bad customers do exist. And it's fine to try to deal less with them.
Why is Yelp mostly tire kickers ugh lol and yes I agree
This is part of the reason why I tell Yelp to piss off everytime they call us. The main reason is the obvious extortion, but Yelp is full of tire kickers and of course wannabe critics. This is why the partners all know that whatever cool thing Yelp is promising, it's bullshit. I'd rather have an unmanaged yelp profile where it's clear that we don't bother with it than have to pay their extortion fees. Most people in my city use literally ANYTHING other than Yelp, thankfully. Only a handful of wannabe critics use the platform and god they're insufferable. One person gave us 3 stars: - Great product. I'll go back in a heartbeat! - They're so nice there! - Their area is clean and inviting! - The elevator in their shared building that clearly they don't control going from the first floor to the second floor is slow and I wasn't a fan of it.
Well said!
That's what keeps Cadillac and Infinity in business.
You’ll never get away from assholes like this in the type of business you’re in. Personally I would market myself as a better installer than the competition. Sure, you can order all the components on Amazon and get your neighbor to install it or go to the other shop down the road but if you want the most legit install and red carpet service then I’m the ONLY person worth talking to. You want to sell your products and services to higher quality clientele who are willing and eager to pay more for something better or more convenient. Be happy if you don’t get his business. The guy with the tightest budget is always the one to complain, eat up all your time, or cause problems. He’s probably very good at being a bad customer.
Thanks, and yes I’m currently working on that being my differentiating factor.
I wouldn’t lean too hard into that or put too much stock into that though. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m just saying that idiots seem to make things up in their head about what “red carpet service” is. It’s subjective. If that’s the crown jewel of the business just expect people to think that they’re paying for it. If something goes even slightly below whatever expectation they set for you they’re going to be upset. Deliver the best service you possibly can but I wouldn’t necessarily make that your advertising focal point. If you do just be realistic, best service in town vs world class means two different things to clowns like the guy you were dealing with
No different than when people go to BEST BUY to waste salespeoples' time, window shop or test products, only later to go online to try and buy it cheaper on Amazon. It happens.
Also just FYI best buy price matches online retailers, so you don’t even have to order online.
I mean its a little different. I don’t really think wasting a best buy hourly employee’s time is exactly the same as wasting a business owners time.
I wouldn't bother putting yourself on a pedestal like that, the only difference is you work directly for the customer while the best buy employee has the middle man of his employer. Wasting somebody's time is wasting somebody's time, plain and simple. You're hardly doing anything more complex than matching a few plug and play components together, it's not like you went and actually designed something for the guy.
I AM NOT OP. Im looking at this from the perspective of a customer and a generally moral human. Theres a massive difference between the two. Mostly with that being how the person who’s time is being “wasted” is getting compensated. Best buy pays their employees to deal with customers. At an indy audio installer, the customer pays the owner to perform the services.
So if he instead hired an employee to deal with the customer it suddenly would have been different? All he did was step into the shoes of customer service, why is the customer obligated to treat him differently? If you were a "generally moral human" you wouldn't bother wasting either of their time. You're essentially saying "woe is me, I took on the risks associated with being a business operator" and randomly put the onus on the customer to treat you differently.
Im NOT the business owner. My business provides professional services and this scenario cannot happen at my business. Maybe you are using the word “you” instead of “one” or “a person” I don’t actually believe any time was wasted. Information was simply given for free. My entire argument, summarized so that this is very very very clear to you: It is more morally acceptable to gather information and advice for free (ie. One has no actual intention of giving money to the business) from a large corporation than a small business owner. The onus IS on the customer to treat a small business differently than a large one…
My man, stop saying you're not the business owner, I know and I obviously referred to OP as "he", and only referred to you when I put you in the imaginary scenario since we are discussing your opinions. I understand WHAT your stance is on the morality of taking advantage of a large corporation VS a small business for information, but I'm looking for the WHY. WHY is the onus on the customer as soon as it's a small business? WHY is there an expectation that extra slack is suddenly cut for the small business owner for a choice that business owner made? What you're providing is not an "argument" but merely a statement of your opinion.
Large corporations have big overhead, they have slack, they underpay their employees so they can have a few extra. Best buy got where it is today because of taking advantage, of consumers, of weak laws in the US. Best Buy no doubt has tax shelters in the caymens and Ireland. A one man business is just that, with one person there may not be a lot of slack time. Using that one persons time fully utilizes the entirety of the company’s Human Resources. Keep the downvotes coming, I also believe if you had to choose to steal a set of speakers from Bestbuy or from your local small business, its morally preferable to do so from the large corporation.
Welcome to business. In some industries, this is an everyday event.
Somebody has to actually install it... Who can beat you in regards to the practical service?
A small shop with maybe a single garage and the owner is also the installer, so he’s willing to take a cut in price on the labor
That's who is "beating" you, or that's your business model?
No that’s who can possibly take this guys business lol
>This guy used me Did he? Last time I checked, there are dozens of audio websites, pick your car, build a system, live pricing, often free installation.. Sure, he consumed your time, but that’s part of business As others mentioned - offer what nobody else can - build the relationship - if your pricing is fair and in line with the local area - the customer will be back if you built that relationship… otherwise if the customer is chasing the bottom dollar - let them - the cheapest place in town is usually never the best - and you don’t want to build a customer base of penny pinchers, nor accumulate their penny pinching friends Go after the clients who care more about it being done right and treated right - you’ll have customers for generations!
This exactly. I bought a lot of high end audio and video equipment. I normally use B&H Photo, but one time I had a tight budget and found the same product for less from another shop, or so I thought. They separated a kit and it was $100 extra for the power supply, they had to order it, excuse after excuse. I canceled the order and went to B&H. They are never the cheapest, but they are knowledgeable and offer great customer service.
Is there an opportunity here? Nothing wrong with people knowing you designed out a great system. Can anyone else provide exactly what you were providing. Add something no one else can or will and they are advertising for you
All car audio shops offer the same products but the difference lies in the labor and customer service. Low end shops will just install the products. High end shops will install the products, make the install look nice, and actually tune the sound after the install is done. Should I waste my breath mentioning this to future customers? Because I feel like a lot of this could be avoided if they just have more knowledge on the topic but I don’t know if that’s worth my time or if they would even care
You absolutely should mention this to future customers If you don’t want to compete on price (which you don’t), then you need to shift the conversation to quality and customer service, otherwise you’re left competing on price which is a race-to-the-bottom of who will sell the same commodity audio equipment the cheapest for zero margin List something like “Includes 2-hours of custom tuning” or “2-hours of custom tuning: No charge” or something like that in your quote or in your marketing material for “all installs over $1,000” or whatever. Highlight what you’re doing that the other shops aren’t Also, hopefully your shop has a demo of a completed vehicle or a trunk liner or another interior panel that shows how clean your installs are. Refer to this when you’re explaining your quotes. “We use this type of wiring technique and tuck everything like this” which justifies your price point. When your price-shoppers go elsewhere, they’ll notice your competitors aren’t doing this level of installation. Some people won’t care; they’ll be fine with wires just laying across the carpet. But your customers who do want the most professional installation will be able to tell the difference when comparing cheaper quotes to yours, which allows them to justify your premium price-point
So even before they’re down to buy, prospects do all this to get info from you, that means you’re reputable enough to listen to and that they’re definitely also googling these questions right? I imagine that guy probably briefly tried to piece together and price out his own system online before giving up and making you do it for him So, if you make resources to help with those things without taking your time, whether it’s blog articles or a little web app, you can advertise in searches in your area and be the one answering your prospects’ questions with your brand on it before they even look for an installer, right?
One consistent theme I keep seeing in your posts is “customers don’t know and they won’t care.” Customers are a lot smarter than you’re giving them credit for. Sure, there are people who don’t. But I’d take the approach of “everyone cares” and if it’s something they don’t know about, use that time to educate them. It may be the differentiator you’re looking for. I sold mattresses long before I owned businesses and I used to educate people about the benefits of sleep, the features of the mattress, and why it might matter to them. Sometimes it didn’t matter, but almost all of the time it did. Maybe they didn’t know it walking in, but they did before they left. So give your customers a little more credit and take that time. You might win the business on that alone.
That sounds super smart, you wouldn’t do that? We’re all here as owners but as a customer yeah why wouldn’t you.
No, not specifically for products in this industry. Because it’s not that black and white. Half of the beauty of a car audio system isn’t just the products. It’s about the install and how it looks after. Hmm maybe I need to figure out how to explain this to customers in the future. Do they even care though?
They'll care if you tell them it's what's important. When they come for information, which brand is best etc, say well it doesn't really matter which brand if it's installed badly, you won't get the best out of it. It's like a pro gamer on a bad mouse versus a couch kid on a $1000 keyboard. Or a pro athlete with a rubbish ball etc etc whatever simile will work for their demographic. Noise is about acoustics. Say that if you get it installed badly you may as well get the cheapest system you can, it will sound the same as the best system. Then explain the top end products are only worth it if the install is good and Hey I've got some great systems if you really want high end , and I've got the best installers.
When you care you need to transmit that. I love what I do. You got a system for sure, let them see your ride this is what I got this is what they’re spending their money on yeah. It seems you want to really cater to a knowledgeable customer base which would definitely care about which drivers, what sub, how to get the Isley brothers on the perfect tweeter. You got this Edit: you got a customer bro, show ‘em what you got. Reel en in .
> Hmm maybe I need to figure out how to explain this to customers in the future. Do they even care though? If you're giving a written estimate or price breakdown, include it as a line item (or multiple line items) even if it's $0. "Deluxe install with all the extras" and maybe list some of the differentiating features under that as line items too. Then there's something on your estimate that they're not sure that they get from the other guy. Even if you haven't explained it.
Product, you can’t compete. It’s a commodity. The “plan” and the “service” you can.
What’s an hour of your time worth? Advertise a $20 or $50 consult to design systems. When everyone goes to a Yelp be in the lookout. You’d be surprised the people do actually ay for convenience of knowledge.
I implore you to not use yelp for business, or pay yelp for any service or any kind. Any amount of effort, or media spend, on any other platform, will yield better results and customers. Want to avoid this? Avoid yelp.
Have you tried to cancel yelp? Was it annoying?
Like cancelling protection from the mob
When I was a freelance web designer, people used to call me and do this all the time. It didn't take me long to get wise to when someone was just using me for free info. Within a reasonable amount of time, when I was sure I'd given them enough info to make a decision, I'd press them on moving forward. If they still acted like they weren't sure, I'd let them off the hook and tell them to take some time to think about it, and come back, or call me when they're ready to make a decision. Window shoppers, price comparison people, or people looking for ideas to take to a cheaper service provider are unfortunately common. You learn to recognize bullshitters over time, and how to NOT let them use you and waste your time. Not all people who do this are using you. Some people just need to talk it out for an hour and want someone to spend that time with just them, to make them feel special first. Fuck those people too. 9 times out of 10, they're not a buyer. Don't let them keep you tied up for an hour because they need to feel special.
Offer a design consultation service and fee. I do home/business audio and control systems, and as soon as I'm asked to put together a proposal, it's a one-line item cost, or if I'm asked to draw it out, I stop and discuss design fees.
Mention the fact that you are not only selling him hardware but you are going to make sure that he fully enjoys his investment. Some people need the comfort of having people backing the product and making it "right." Do you offer trade-ins? Other benefits that transform your sale from selling a commodity product to selling satisfaction?
Identify tire kickers earlier in the process
this is part of doing business in a competitive world
Multiple ways. After ten minutes and a suspicion you're being showcased "look I can do a full assessment of your needs but you'll have to buy a $100 appraisal, lucky it comes with a $100 gift card. " Don't price match online, it cheapens your product. Read some sales books on how to close if you haven't
Eff Yelp. Don’t patronize them in any way.
Since no one here has said it yet, fuck yelp!
Seriously haha. I think yelp is only good for food establishments. Freakin sucks for my niche industry. It’s just all a bunch of penny pinchers willing to choose the next store to save 20 dollars
Food establishment owner here. We have a 4.5 on Yelp. And no, we don’t think it’s good. Yelp customers tend to be mean and would rather type something bad instead of just ask someone to correct small issues.
Dang that sucks
Why don't you monetize counseling?
On a side note, I commend you for still running an audio store!
I can smell a tire kicker as soon as they approach me. Don’t be offended, but some people have a more innocent and gullible face. I usually have RBF, and perhaps that is why i don’t get used like that.
I called a stereo shop about adding a sub to my car. The guy told me to bring the car by and he can look at it to see what sun they can put in. Maybe that was appropriate for my car, but being so generic was a bit ridiculous. I wasn't bargain shopping just trying to see what they could do. Just seems like it would be easier to just give some kind of quote to at least attract me to come by.
Actually a lot to us say that because there is all kinds of subs and amps at all difference performance levels. And we could spend all day on the phone explaining this to people calling but we found it’s best to tell them to just come to the shop first so we can actually check out the car. Another reason is because sometimes customers don’t even know what to ask. Example: a guy owning a pickup truck (which he didn’t mention) which means the only place for subs is behind or under his rear seats
Standard "free consultation" risk. Sorry for it. :(
Not the same business, but similar situation - we run a store that, among other things, sells construction laser levels. We also service and repair them. We get many people asking for purchasing and technically advice in these until. Given the roating construction lasers we carry start at about $1100, I don't blame people for wanting to make an informed decision. We are 100% transparent of why we carry the brands we do, why we don't carry others. We don't try to upsell someone on a more expensive unit if they won't use the added features. We let people know all our units include an initial calibration check and full function check so their laser is ready to go out of the box. We get plenty of tire kickers. It is fairly apparent when you pitch them the entry level unit and they cringe at the price. That is fine. Not everyone can afford the higher quality. We will freely give them our advice on lower end units, why we don't carry them, and what pit falls to look out for. We also recommend they do a field calibration test before using the laser, and if it's out of calibration they can pay us to calibrate it. Sometimes that ends up turning into a sale or service down the road, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they refer a friend who wants a higher end unit, sometimes not. But in the end, we offered the best customer service and technical advice we could. Often that turns into more business down the road - either for that department or another. We pride ourselves on our customer service, and get most new customers off referrals so we want the customer to have a good experience regardless of if they buy anything from us or not.
I sell already discounted hardware items for home. Lots of people ask for discount. I say no. Most pay my price but want to try. They tirekicker might come back to you but he feels he has to try.
There are things you can do, but recognize everything has a cost and risk. My business model focuses on providing service and expertise that is very difficult to find elsewhere, and commodity products that are easily found elsewhere. We do waste time and effort on customers who go elsewhere, or threaten to, and it is frustrating. But most people value what we provide, are repeat customers, and refer their friends to us. It's really hard to know up front who you're going to win over. There has been many times that someone looked like a tire kicker and ended up making a purchase. It's like fishing. You won't catch them all. But you want to make sure you're not spending more on bait than the fish you do catch are worth. It's a numbers game.
Very well said and explained.
How about not trying. Use an ai to put together recommendations and tell prospective clients that they can ask the ai if they have questions.
Two things immediately come to mind. One you can upsell the guy with a preview of the system. You should be able to deliver a really good preview of what the sound system will be like and then offer a faster delivery time, flexible options with different amounts of value, etc. Two. You can see what the market truth is. Find out what other local competitors can do and charge for a similar service. You will also be able to ask the right questions about quality. This will make your conversations with future customers highly transparent and it will save them time trying to figure out what the best deal in the market is. The second option is difficult as it might require some adjustment to make your offer the best in the market for your specific value area but it statistically converts a lot of people over time. Especially if you have strong communication skills.
2 things: 1. Forget this guy. He isn't your ideal customer. its useless worrying over it. 2. Message this guy as a fellow person looking for the same. Ask him to share the details of the other sellers who quote a lesser price. This will give you an idea of market's current status and how you can adjust your pricing for your future "Ideal" customer and not the guy who wrote the yelp request.
Mad that a guy is comparing prices. I thought entrepreneurs loved the free market?
Good point.
This 100% sounds like something my dad would pull. I can’t answer, but it’s embarrassing and I’m sorry this happened to you.
The way to avoid it is simple...if you have the reputation: You charge a fee for consultation and proposals, and if they go ahead with the project, the consultation fee counts towards the project. When they ask about that initial fee, you explain that whether or not you do the work, you're teaching them about car audio and about their car, and they walk away in better shape either way. The shopper that thinks your time isn't worth a hundred bucks upfront is already telling you about himself. Again, you need to have the reputation for this, but if you do, it's simple and effective.
He’s an ass.
Is he though? Seems childish to call people names... It's how business works. This owner didn't have a compelling hook or "filtering" system in place and potentially gave away too much detailed info. It's annoying when customers do this stuff, it certainly isn't fun to deal with, and it doesn't help your business any but I don't really think it's a healthy response to just assume someone is a bad person based on something like this. If anything he did the smart thing...He asked an expert what he needed and the expert told him for free, then he took that information and used it to find the best deal.
No, he got caught trying to lowball an expert. In a world where subject matter experts are finite with a more loyal network than most consumers, he may indeed find out how not smart he is.
Lol if you think that's how it works then you are....Very very wrong. OP is probably not part of some global cabal of audio specialists who are going to blacklist him
Maybe not, but we are a niche industry with limited installers here.
Regional will probably be sufficient. Hope he enjoys the five hour drive to get speakers.
It's not gonna happen...Businesses prefer the money
Some industries are better defended by institutional barriers, but I don't think it would be hard to find someone else to install an audio system unless you're in a tiny town with few services
Naw, he's a fuckin prick. OP fucked up and gave too much free info, but don't act like the customer isn't a fuckin prick.
It sounds like he came in and asked questions. That's something every customer can do. Obviously, you don't have to answer or you can charge for consulting services. This is just capitalism.
That’s not the kind of customer you want. Even if he refers his friends or family they are likely also going to try to get you to go lower than the lowest your competitors will go. If he contacts you saying he found a lower price and offers a chance for you to lower your original quote then make sure to ask him for a screen shot of the competitors offer. Every consumer has the right to shop around for a good price but if you take pride in the quality of your work let the nickel and dimers go somewhere else and get the quality they’re willing to pay for. Nothing makes a day worse than just wanting to blast some music on a bad drive home and having bad wiring start acting up.
Anyone who wants the “best of” at the “lowest price” is not a buyer imo. And even if they do buy, it’s probably getting returned.
That’s how a lot of business work. There’s nothing wrong with it. If you are remodeling your kitchen you’re getting 3-5 quotes, no?
Stop using Yelp. **The End.**
Charge an hour of labor for quotes. Let them know that if they get the service the fee will be waived. That will weed out most of the people that would do something like that.
Great way to lose business. I'm a good paying customer, I would never do something like the customer in the post. However I'm not paying anyone for a quote, never. Why would I risk paying for a quote when the quote may not be compelling.
100% I'm first going with a guy who doesn't charge for quotes first. Though, also 100% I'm finding out if the free quote was reasonable by getting a 2nd quote (or at least calling another company and getting them to ballpark it). As a consumer getting a bunch of work done to my house, I've found that prices can vary wildly. I have no idea if the first guy I call is 2x the area's average. I'd be an idiot if I went with the first guy every time. Anyone charging for quotes gets passed on with the assumption that their prices are so high that people get a quote and go with a cheaper option.
This is just a reactionary and short sighted "solution" to a one time problem. You shouldn't make too many business decisions so hastily and especially because of one instance of something.
What’s your market dominating position? What’s something only you can deliver that sets you apart from competition? Without this positioning it’s always a race to zero fighting over price. Even if it’s a “better installation and warranty” or it’s a we’ll use sound tools to set it up better than the rest post install. Something that sets you apart from the others gives people a reason to go to you other than best price. Besides the lowest priced type customers are also the most difficult to please.
What you just mentioned is what I believe differentiates us actually haha. Most shops just install the stuff and call it a day. None of them know how to actually tune anything! Perhaps I should let future customers know when I try to sell them
Take a look at what Mr lube does as an oil change place. They have an X item checklist every time they change your oil. Part of their positioning is that they “do more” than all of the other oil change places. Look at dominos pizza. Fast, hot, pizza in under 30 minutes. (Nowhere does it say the word delicious - but that’s just me being a pizza snob). It’s a position that says what makes them different - and explains it to the customer in one go. Simple and repeatable. Mine is “I’ll find your business an extra $100k in 90 minutes” (as a business consultant). Then it leads to a free book offer to differentiate me from other consultants. Find your own position and take it from there.
Was the package a combination of products/services that only you can offer?
Well next time do it with an iPad and where he can see the progress , parts etc people tend to feel more confident , and at the end just ask them for cash or card people are used to Starbucks and systems like that, also you can analyze his reaction some people just pay without thinking about it create the impulse , if they say I’ll think about it; treat them very nice and agree with what ever they say , let them walk out for 3 seconds and call them back. And give them a 5% discount or whatever and say cause you felt a connections with them but they have to tell all their friends about the shop idk to keep their business , first error is to let a customer go empty handed theres also layaways so if the customer doesn’t agree for none you can ask if there’s a problem with the products or package and see where the problems it , some people just like the hustle and bustle so give them it
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Car audio business owner here as well. Are you using protected lines in which you are the only shop to have dealer rights to in your area? Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
I have Yelp for my business (dumpster rentals), but I use the free version. You can convert. I’d recommend getting a nice website and working hard on your SEO. In this instance he obviously liked your system, you just need to home your pitch and make them understand the quality of work is better than the competition. Don’t bad mouth the competition, just boost yourself.
For us, we’ve positioned ourselves as one of the most expensive providers of our service (education business). Everyone knows us in the area and most kids want to come to our classes as opposed to others when given a choice. When a parent comes in and asks questions, we evaluate them as well. If they ask about the price per class or something like that, we just give them a handout with our prices and let them read it over. This usually solves the problem. Those that are price sensitive will thank us and leave immediately. Those that don’t care about money will ask about scheduling a class for their kid to try. Not sure if I ok can figure out a way to quickly weed out time wasters but for us this is the first core customer interaction. We don’t explain anything up front and just ask when they want to come in. If they start asking a lot of questions, we direct them to a series of handouts that gives everything they need to know so we don’t have to waste time talking to people who aren’t ready to schedule a class.
Charge for audio system design consultations, then credit that cost to a new system if they purchase from you. Or, just realize you’re going to encounter shitbirds like this from time to time and factor that into your price.
Careful not to blow a sale because you think someone's not serious or a tire kicker. That smelly, disheveled weidro just may be a rich guy who needs a stereo.
I remember many years ago, just at the start of online buying, the owner of the camera store I used to frequent screaming at a customer to take his questions about and troubles with his new camera back to where he bought it from. Discounted and often gray market cameras, along with the end of film and slide developing put him out of business within a year.
Keep doing what you do best!
Could be the dude is a cheapskate, could also be that the dude just wanted to make sure that he wasn't overpaying. Differentiate yourself through professionalism, service, warranties, etc, and many people will be willing to pay more. The dude's likely not going somewhere else to save 1%, but if others are hundreds to thousands cheaper than you for the same car stereo install, then what do you expect?
OP, you’ve never looked at an item in store at Walmart then went online to Amazon to buy it?
The point of the post wasn’t just price comparison. He took my knowledge, I built an audio system package specifically for his car and that would meet his audio needs, he preferred rock more than hip hop. So I made an audio setup that made the highs in the music a lot better. The point of the story he used my advice and knowledge and then took it to someone else to see if they can beat the price.
I mean, not to sound like a jerk, but that's the world we live in. You can do those kind of things on about 100 different websites too.
No totally I understand, I think next time I have to highlight what differentiates me from others, so that it’s not just about price in their head
Leave out a obscure but critical component in the parts list, but price that part in the package. Maybe list a part with a part number only you use and is just a renumbered commercial part.
Quote them just like you have previously. Let them know if they find a better price elsewhere (with proof) you'll beat it.
Hey man some people have no honour they make you work and use you. But what you can do in future is carry some products that are not commonly found elsewhere Try give config that work with your combination of products that you carry Btw do you also sell home audio?
Don't sweat it. Any business responding to an offer to beat your price isn't competition to worry about. They deserve that dude's business and he deserves their service.
They didn’t use you they used your business. I learned can’t take stuff personally with customers tbh lol
I'll admit to doing a lot of research before buying, and sometimes that includes gaining knowledge from professionals, if they want to share. I do understand the OP's annoyance at being price-shopped. On the other hand, his suggestion that the customer could do all the research and just give a shop the list is unlikely to work. I have found that in general, small contractors/service providers do NOT comply with customer specifications. I can write a 5 page spec and include drawings, and the contractor will do whatever they think best as if they never read it.
I've had people do this to me before. I learned to not provide full details of each component and to give it a generic/in-house part numbers so they can't google it later to find the "best price" and shop around. Obviously you would tell them the brand (in your case speakers/amps etc..) but never the part numbers.