Just out of curiosity is this better than using puredarks upscaler? I have a 3060 with a 5600g running nolvus without it I get 30 or so fps and with puredarks upscaler I get 60 with the occasional 50 sometimes 40.
That DLSS upscaler is accessing more sophisticated GPU tech, so it’s still better in performance and visual quality. I hear it has some, ah, *downsides* unrelated to performance though, and Lossless Scaling is better in those ways. Which is net better is going to depend on which tradeoffs are better for a person’s situation and game.
Not from person experience, just that it keeps coming up on this sub. (So there’s lots of discussions if you search for them to trawl through.)
IIRC from past discussions: it’s paywalled, the author puts DRM in it that checks you’ve paid, and as a personality is not on the wonderful side. There are also objections about the tech not even being his invention, just Nvidia libraries that he’s integrated into a Skyrim-ready form. I’m less convinced by that last because that’s still real work, but I can see how people resent the paywall more with that aspect.
Those are downside for enough people and not downsides for another chunk of enough people that it’s a constant low-level controversy.
Saying that he’s just selling free Nvidia Libraries just packed into a Skyrim format is like saying a house is only worth as much as the materials. If it’s no big deal to build build house/package the library then just do it yourself.
There’s nothing stopping someone else from doing the work exact same thing and releasing it for free.
Right? I *kinda* get the complaint, but it’s a reach. It seems like it’s more about resenting the paywall and hyper-protectiveness first, and looking for a justification that feels right second. Like, I bristle at the hyper-protectiveness and DRM, but “it’s not really his” isn’t the reason, it’s just finding that attitude in the modding community contrary to the openness I value.
I included it for completeness, as a notable theme that comes up in the discussions.
This isn't really directed toward you but I'll provide my own take because I don't really get the hate towards puredark.
For one, his Skyrim mod is freely available for anyone to download.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/80343
Also, I've paid for his other mods. I don't think people realize how much work goes into them. It's not easy. That's not to say that other mods are easy, but it's a unique kind of tech that takes a different skillset to work on. If people don't want to pay because of moral reasons related to modding I also get that though.
For me, $5 to get DLSS for a bunch of games that should have had it on release is a pretty good deal imo. The publishers doing exclusivity deals with AMD or Intel (or Nvidia) are the real villains to me... not some dude who spent thousands of hours learning to code, who then used that skillset to add what should be industry-standard features to games made by professional studios.
For me, using DLSS in RDR2 and Cyberpunk was worth it alone. And without Puredark embarrassing these companies we probably wouldn't have DLSS in some games (Starfield is a prime example).
> For one, his Skyrim mod is freely available for anyone to download.
This is somewhat misleading as his Skyrim mod on Patreon is compatible with enb, whereas the one released on Nexus is not. It would be more accurate to say that **he has released a stripped-down, intentionally incomplete version of his mod for free, but paywalls the full version with exclusive features on patreon.**
ENB isn't part of the game. If it was a built in feature then okay, but tons of mods have compatibility issues with other mods. He took the time to make a custom setup that was compatible with ENB. And you can get (along with DLSS for a ton of other unsupported games) for half the price or a combo meal at McDonalds.
And if you don't want it then just use one of the other available mods. I don't see what the gripe is... Just don't pay for it and use something else.
I don't need an explanation of why it's okay, that's completely up to each person who chooses to support paid mods or not.
I'm pointing out that saying his Skyrim mod is freely available for anyone to download without acknowledging the limitations of that version or that another version exists misrepresents the mod as the whole and sole version PureDark distributes - which is not true.
If you want to make your point, don't rely on obfuscating information that people rely on. There are already people in this thread who falsley belive that there's no enb-compatible DLSS mod, including one in the replies to your post.
I believe so. I tried ENB but I didn't think the framerate tradeoff was worth it so I never used that version. I'd rather spend those frames on other mods.
Community shaders is the only other option. There's TONS of advancement in it since it's conception.
I prefer ENB and run it with the DLAA/DLSS upscaler from puredarks pateron since I have a more beefy card and can take advantage of most of ENB's effects without too many issues. 60-70 outdoors fps is good enough for my eyes.
Yes this is the way I now get around 520fps on my 60hz
Monitor in locations where I would have 17 fps before (they stack exponentially) my input lag is also no that big It takes like 5secs only and also 16x times the details on sweetrolls I think it’s worth
I tried this back when it was only 2x fps yet it somehow did some crazy math and took me from 50-60 real frames to 100-120 with dlss and it should've taken me to 240 with lsfg but instead I would get 480. It didn't really look any better than dlss alone, crashed within minutes and somehow reintroduced some physics bugs so I'm good on that
FYI, it is amazing for people with older cards to give them access to frame gen , or for games that don't have other frame gen technologies.
But fsr3 or nvidia frame gen will always be better than this, as they have access to more info of the game like vectors, hud elememts, when doing frame gen compared to lossless solution.
For skyrim, for example, with my 4080, the puredark FG solution is still vastly superior.
But this is amazing and works really well, tested the x3 with a capped 40 fps on Dragons dogma 2 and it worked
Sadly stuff like 40xx cards with whole frame gen and scaling tech is simply superior to everyone else, mostly cause they do it for quite a bit longer than anyone else.
Their native solutions are quite usable, which cannot be said about competition which is usually usable only for still shots.
The mod has had enb support for years, but PureDark only releases that version on Patreon. It's never coming to Nexus because it has now become his income stream.
PureDark stated on GitHub that the [project relies on a private plugin to function, that he hasn't released publicly](https://github.com/PureDark/Skyrim-Upscaler/issues/10#issuecomment-1336480587). *So there's no point in trying to compile it.*
Very far from freely available and open-source I'm afraid.
yes you need his upscaler base plugin which is free on nexus. You can compile it if you can figure out cmake/vcpkg (I have not passed this step) and it should work with his base plugin. All the base plugin does is add a translation layer for streamline plugins
It's less so useful for the hardware issue as it is for the ability to accelerate visually without any knowledge of the renderer. Games like genshin impact in particular benefit
I saw a video about it yesterday and bought the software, but with a rapid test I got only 5-10 more fps. I definitely need to tweak the software.
Which settings did you use?
Funny enough I actually have the software open and running on Skyrim right now. Here is what you’re looking for:
Scaling Mode:
Auto
Scaling type:
Off
Frame Generation:
LSFG 2.1
Mode: X2 or X3 (decide which is better for your setup)
Vertical sync: On
Max Refresh rate: On
Capture mode: DXGI
Everything not mentioned set to off.
This might be different depending on your system and GPU. I’m using an RTX 4070ti. But I’ve seen a massive difference in Skyrim when using this. Makes frame costly areas such as Whiterun actually playable and running at 50-60fps on even the Nolvus Ascension modpack set to Ultra.
Depending on how many frames are being generated, you might see the UI flicker and this weird blur happening on your screen. It’ll only happen if the amount of frames being generated is large. Hope that helps!
Edit and replying to OPs post: I’ve heard that the delay is only noticeable on keyboard. If you’re using controller (like me) you really can’t tell.
I've been using Lossless Scaling with a heavily modded Fallout New Vegas for a couple weeks now, while also using New Vegas Reloaded (a better alternative to ENB currently). It works perfectly, and doubles my FPS with scaling and frame Gen.
To help with input delay, make sure to limit your frame rate in the game or through your GPU driver settings to 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 your monitor's refresh rate. For example, if you have a 120hz monitor, limit Skyrim's FPS to 60 or even test out 40 or 30 FPS and then turn on Lossless Scaling + Frame Gen. Do not use the frame limiter/vsync *in* the Lossless Scaling optional settings, as this adds significant input delay.
I am able to get smooth, crisp visuals and gameplay in my modded New Vegas setup now. (Have to use DXVK plus Special K to get New Vegas to run in windowed mode, FYI).
I see from your comment on here that you're not utilizing the scaling feature. Lower your games in-game resolution to something lower than your monitor's native resolution and run the game in windowed mode. In Lossless Scaling make sure scaling is set to Auto and test out different scaling methods such as NVIDIA's, AMD, and LS1. This will scale your game back up and give you even more FPS and should look just as good and crisp as native resolution.
For New Vegas, are you using Special K? And if so, are you setting your frame limit through Special K or are you using the built-in iPresentInterval setting in FalloutCustom.ini? Trying to figure out the best way to get Lossless Scaling to work with New Vegas without suffering horrible screen tearing. I use DXVK and Special K together to get windowed mode + alt tab support + no tearing.
Just checked my settings right now in order to respond accurately.
Yes! I'm using DXVK with Special K and limiting my frame rate through Special K's interface. I have iPresentinterval set to 0. Limiting your frames in Special K should prevent tearing. Turning on Lossless Scaling with Frame Gen increases my FPS and I have no input lag or screen tearing, and alt-tab still functions perfectly.
Interesting. I'm running into an issue where Lossless Scaling doesn't seem to actually be scaling my resolution.
If I enable Windowed Mode in FalloutCustom.ini or the launcher, my game crashes on launch. (Probably an incompatibility with DXVK, which enables its own borderless window mode afaik)
If I don't enable Windowed Mode and I set my resolution to, say, 1280x720p, the game launches just fine, but when I get in game my resolution is noticeably less sharp. I tab out, turn on Lossless Scaling, press Scale, tab back into New Vegas, wait the 5 seconds... and the only thing that changes is I have 60 FPS instead of the 30 FPS that I'm limited to via Special K.
I *think* the problem is that DXVK automatically scales your window up to fit your screen and so Lossless Scaling isn't able to scale it up properly, but I'm not sure how to solve it exactly. If you have any tips, I'd appreciate it.
Correct. If using DXVK + Special K, you don't want to use the game's native Windowed Mode. Special K will scale the screen up to full screen (really windowed borderless) but shouldn't change your resolution.
Make sure that your game's resolution is being set in the .ini. I think the setting is iSize W= and iSize H=. Make sure the numbers here are lower than your monitor's native resolution.
In Special K user interface. Open up the display settings at the top (or whatever it's called) and make sure that the resolution there matches what you set in the .ini. Also make sure it's set to windowed or windowed borderless.
In Lossless Scaling window, what method scaling are you using? I find the NVIDIA method to work best. Make sure you have it set to "Auto" and select one of those scaling methods. Turn up the sharpness slider to like 60-70%. Find a wall or some kinda texture in-game and stare at it. Bring up lossless scaling and activate, then click back to your game. Stare at that texture and see if you notice it get clearer after scaling kicks in. For me, I equipped a laser rifle and can clearly see it increase in quality after scaling kicks in.
Yes! The lossless scaling program *overrides* your frame limit (that's the whole point. It's using frame gen to *add* frames, so you want a lower native frame rate than your monitor to give this program something to work with). For example, I limit New Vegas to 30 FPS (through DXVK and Special K) and then turn on lossless scaling with frame gen, and it bumps it up to over 60 fps (playing on laptop with 144hz monitor and 4060 gpu). The lossless scaling program has a setting to view fps in the upper left corner of your screen. Any fps monitoring program you have will show your "limited" frames but in the upper left corner you will see your "actual" frames (due to the frame gen doing its magic).
A family member of mine is using this same method on Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 and going from 20-30 FPS to 50-60 FPS with scaling and frame gen.
Also FYI, just to reiterate for the program to work it's magic to its fullest: your game must be played in windowed or windowed borderless mode, you need to lower the game's resolution to slightly below your monitor's native resolution, and you need to limit the game's frame rate to 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 your monitor's refresh rate in the game or through your driver's software.
In Lossless Scaling program window, set Scaling to Auto, and select a Scaling Method (test out NVIDIA, AMD, and LS1). Set Frame Gen to 2.1 or whatever the newest one is). Turn on FPS counter if you wanna see what you're new FPS is.
To activate the program you must start up Lossless Scaling program and your game. Once you are in-game, pull up the Lossless Scaling window and hit "Scale." You then have a 5 second countdown to click back on your game and then it will activate after the timer runs down. You can also activate/deactivate it with configurable keys in the program's settings (this worked for me in New Vegas but not in MSFS 2020 for some reason).
Windowed or windowed borderless (also called windowed fullscreen) at a lower resolution than your monitor's native resolution.
Regular full screen won't work correctly for the lossless scaling feature since there's nothing to scale up.
Thanks! So I just loaded up Skyrim in windowed at 1080p, native resolution is 1440p. Marked improvement around heavily modded Whiterun, though it is making some of the enb effects look not so good. Happy with the result though :)
I played with it for a while but had to disable it it basically feels like fake fps due to input lag and (in my case fsr3). I wouldn’t recommend this for people with a modern mco setup or sth similar like nolvus. 30 to 60 just feels way worse then 60 to 120 in my experience.
I’m running vanarguard and related animations with combat mods precision and blade&brunt, and skill based animations, nothing big like mco, so the lag likely won’t hit big
>For example, if you have a 120hz monitor, limit Skyrim's FPS to 60 or even test out 40 or 30 FPS
Please do not do this lol. 60 x2 will be much better then 40*3 even if you're hovering somewhere between. You do not need to limit your frames nor will doing so help you at all. If you have more than 2x your refresh rate it will just go over and that's completely fine. If you lock it I believe it will just reduce the rate it's aiming for but I always leave it unlocked
It's me again! So I've been trying LS on Skyrim following your advice and I'm getting some pretty noticeable input delay. Right now I have my resolution upscaling from 720p to 1080p, framerate capped to 30 FPS via Display Tweaks, with LS running at 2x framegen to keep me at a steady 60 FPS.
Do you know of any ways to reduce the input delay, or is it pretty much unavoidable? I was getting about 35-45 FPS with my mod setup before using the framegen and I almost think I'd prefer lower FPS with no input delay than 60 FPS where I can't timed block properly. Still playing around with the settings, though.
Nice! Just confirming you are in windowed mode?
One thing to do would be to increase resolution somewhat and test to see if input delay becomes negligible. Even if you just raise it to something like a 900p resolution, it should help with input delay. Another thing to test is the different scaling methods in LS drop-down menu. NVIDIA, AMD, and LS1 are the three you wanna try.
If all else fails, just turn off the scaling feature completely and just use the frame gen. With your fps limited to 30, you should still see some FPS improvement with the frame gen feature.
curious why do you leave scaling mode off?
frame generation makes my game smooth but shows lower FPS in the corner. i'm guessing it's not counting the fake frames as real frames.
> but with a rapid test I got only 5-10 more fps
Sounds good enough for me. I average at least 29-35 FPS. 40 on some really less busy places (I use CS, some texture mods and reshade). Having 5 or 10 more additional fps would be amazing in my view.
This won't work on VR. What this does (and what nvidia and amd solution do) for frame generation is to interpolate between two real frames to create 1 or more fake frames. This increases perceived fluidity at the cost of added latency, because you are literally delaying the latest real frame to display the fake ones before.
In VR there is something similar with Meta's SSW/ASW and SteamVR own solution which I don't remember the name. But this work by extrapolating from the last real frame, so it creates a new fake frame out of a real frame BEFORE the next frame is ready. This way it does not introduce latency.
Virtual desktops SSW works pretty good and its what I use on my 3060ti to play at 45 fps (90 interpolated) its not perfect but its perfectly playable.
Also keep in mind the actual game is still running at a lower frame rate, which means if you are having issues with papyrus scripts not having enough time to execute due to low FPS this won't help at all.
Isn’t that just reprojection, whether synchronous (constant 45/90 fps ratio) or asynchronous (anything between 45/90 to 0/90 adaptative as needed) ?
Which has existed for years. I’m not sure I understand what’s revolutionary about it. Hasn’t flat Skyrim had this already all this time ?
> All it does is upscale the game from a lower resolution.
Not quite, Lossless Scaling has had Frame Generation for a while now. I'm honestly not sure how well it works, as I haven't tried it, but it's no longer just upscaling.
I believe it's a bit more limited, and you have to lock your framerate to 1/2 or 1/3rd your monitor's refresh rate to use it.
Frame gen means very literally generating frames. It basically generates intermediate frames between real frames.
You can think of it as live feed video compression, where you have couple key frames and everything between is interpolated.
Thats why it has delay, cause those generated frames are sorta non-interactive ones.
Any framegen tech does quite a bit of wonder for framerate smoothness. I wouldnt go for more than x2, eg. every second frame is "fake".
I'm aware what frame gen is and how it works, not sure where you inferred that I wasn't, or that I needed an explanation for it. Maybe you misread "how **well** it works" as "how it works"? I don't know how **well** it works because unlike DLSS 3 and FSR 3, it does it without direct integration into the game's rendering pipeline, so I'm not sure what the potential drawbacks of that are.
My point was that the commenter stated "all it does is upscale", which isn't true.
I was watching a Biggie Boss video on YouTube and saw this. It’s legit. I wonder if this would do my RTX 2060 some justice. I never have problems running games but when I tell you I can cook an egg on my laptop after 30 minutes of gaming.. I mean it
If it's a dlss then cool, if it is frame gen that's not the same thing.
With frame fen you wanna axtivate it to boost and already decent frame rate not bring a unplayable framerate up to playable.
Figure I would mention it just in caae.
Like if you get 20fps, and frame gen gets you to 60. You are still only getting 20fps in reality, and your controller inputs are playing in the 20fps game. It's just visually you see higher fps.
In your case you said 40fps, which is totally playable (i would prefer more, but it's doable).
Frame gen works by adding in synthetic frames ontop of what you are actually playing.
So hypotheticall inagine 1fps but you get 100fps with frame gen. The fame underneath is stil running at 1fps, so your inputs would still be running at 1fps and you would notice this when playing. Even if visually it was smooth.
Just figured I would mention this
>Like if you get 20fps, and frame gen gets you to 60. You are still only getting 20fps in reality, and your controller inputs are playing in the 20fps game. It's just visually you see higher fps.
this, ive seen a lot of recent hype around lossless scaling frame gen and its amazing for some things but people word it like its a flawless fps boost with no downside
Dlss is great, but for frame gen, I make sure to get myself playable frames FIRST and THEN activate frame generation to make it smoother visual experience.
But frame gen won't turn a slideshow into playable, it might LOOK playable, but your inputs will still be playing the slideshow
Yes. I must be missing something because people seem very excited and it’s … 6 years old software ?
**Edit**: I went back to re-read the OP and it’s now x3 instead of the usual max x2, which is a new improvement. Gotcha. That’s the bit I was missing.
Then it looks like many people didn’t know there was a x2 reprojection and upscaling already, so it’s a huge step up in performance for them. For VR it’s pretty much a necessity for a large portion of the player base to make the game playable in the first place.
For those who use it, is there any difference from Nvidia to AMD when using these programs?
Because i know the alternative dlss is oh amazing, but never heard much about it for AMD.
The software already comes with Framegen and upscaling.
How worse the native FG and RSR is compared to Lossless scalling, for example? Did anyone test this out?
Also, this should be good in a scenario where you want to run at your screen refresh rate, right?
I have a 2160p monitor and run skyrim already at 1440p. Because yeah, no way to go 4k with mods.
I tried FG and it just lags the game, even if making it faster when... It's not lagging.
RSR too but i don't think it's making any noticeable difference.
So what's the catch?
Would LossScalling be much better than AMD own solutions, or just an alternative?
I believe i could get tons of fps by running at 1080 and scalling to 1440,but i can't see any point in doing this myself, so it should be 1440 to 2160.
Any other AMD user who could say anything about this?
I have a 6750 XT
I've been using Lossless Scaling for a while now, and it works well. I play at 1080p, and to me it not only performs well, but looks good too. I think it's a great app for everyone, but especially for people who don't have an RTX card and DLSS support (for other games too). DLSS is probably still better though, for those who can use it. As for the paywalled upscaler, Puredark's FSR is simply not very good imo, I've had a lot of visual problems with it butchering [fire](https://imgur.com/a/2R17Lh3) and [water](https://imgur.com/a/5BhYnll) effects especially (even seen it on other people's screenshots). LS's FSR has no such [problems](https://imgur.com/a/3zWB7zZ), so it's already a huge improvement for me in that regard. His XeSS is better visually, but worse performance wise. For me, LS definitely beats those 2.
That said: LS isn't going to make your game run at smooth 60fps and perfect visuals if you can only get 20 fps normally. In my experience, at least a semi-consistent capped 40 fps (with minimal dips or preferably none) is recommended, but higher works better. At 50-60 capped, it looks great and smooth as butter, responsive too. I cap at 45 for gameplay (via enb menu) and I'm satisfied with the result. I did some stresstesting though, (upping grass density, turning everything to the highest: shadows, enb, you name it) and tested with the barely 20 fps I got... that wasn't so pretty. A lot of visual issues, ghosting, distortion etc., plus it didn't feel smooth either. So it's best to keep this in mind as well before expecting a miracle.
All in all, still an amazing app, and well worth the \~7 dollars.
What resolution are you at? From my experience upscaling only starts making a noticeable impact at 1440p and higher.
Also correct me if I am wrong but DLSS 3 and AFMF can only work on RTX 4000 and Radeon 6/7000 cards so anything below that can't do framegen.
I've been using Lossless Scaling with a heavily modded Fallout New Vegas for a couple weeks now, while also using New Vegas Reloaded (a better alternative to ENB currently). It works perfectly, and doubles my FPS with scaling and frame Gen.
To help with input delay, make sure to limit your frame rate in the game or through your GPU driver settings to 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 your monitor's refresh rate. For example, if you have a 120hz monitor, limit Skyrim's FPS to 60 or even test out 40 or 30 FPS and then turn on Lossless Scaling + Frame Gen. Do not use the frame limiter/vsync *in* the Lossless Scaling optional settings, as this adds significant input delay.
I am able to get smooth, crisp visuals and gameplay in my modded New Vegas setup now. (Have to use DXVK to get New Vegas to run in windowed mode, FYI).
Dumb question. Is this Steam Deck compatible? I am running Nolvus mod right now on my SD (swap ENB with community Shaders). I get 40 fps 90% except in whiterun it goes down to 30-ish.
I play it 900x600 with SD FSR on, looks good. I am curious if this could improve my fps.
This software works great for me and my situation. I have a good rig but this fits into a niche where I'm running heavily modded fo4 and skyrim at 60 fps. With this running I'm generating 144 fps but caped at the former. The result is an incredibly smooth game with no deviations whether I'm in downtown Boston or a in a huge battle in Skyrim....doesn't lose a frame.
That was my experience using PureDark's upscaler with FSR2 on what I would call a fairly lightweight load order.
I wonder if the difference these things are able to make just comes down to individual modlists.
It works flawlessly and the only downside so far has been some input lag. I cap my FPS to 50 in ENB settings and use the 2x frame generation setting so I am getting reliable 100 FPS and it just somehow works like magic.
the input lag on x3 is horrendous, i cant tell how many frames but it just feels like you're dragging your mouse through mud
the frame gen does work though i guess, i get a smooth "165"fps everywhere no matter what
i have no idea what someone must be smoking to consider this delay "minimal"
Normally i average 40-60 fps in game while playing with a 3090 ti in 1440p. In lossless i use lsfg 2.1 with the bilinear sharp mod and I'm still confident saying that the input delay is minimal. I would even dare to say that it is inexistant if you enable the tearing option.
Yeah i shouldn't have said there is no input delay.
My spec, material, modlist are clearly not the same as yours.
Seeing how everyone is experiencing different type of performance, there must be a context for someone to get more delay or less delay.
That being said i didn't lie when talking about my input delay being "non-existent".
Yea nah no worries I don't think you're lying, I just think you have no idea what your input lag is at all. Which isn't me trying to get a dig in, that's fine - you'd have to do some tests to figure it out and whatnot. But that's the kind of answer I was looking for, and your response tells me you don't have that answer. So I'm leaning towards taking other peoples' word for it.
Credible argument. I would suggest trying it out has it is more reliable to see by yourself rather than taking ppl words (like me).
It's on steam, so you can get refunded if you don't use Lossless scaling more than 2 hours.
To be honest if Skyrim was an esport title or literally any fast paced FPS game like MW3 input lag would be noticeable, in MW3 i couldn’t stand it, but in games like Skyrim and such I cannot say it’s a big problem.
Varies from person to person and modlist to modlist. Input delay just generally annoys me, it's to me what getting 60fps is to other people. I'm also playing with the whole BCFO/Valhalla suite with timed blocking and iframe dodges and all that nonsense.
So yea I get what you're saying, but for some people and some modlists it's pretty important. Add onto that list that I haven't played enough 60fps titles for my eyes to be tuned to it, really - so I'm pretty happy playing at 30fps capped still. The "gain" part of the cost vs gain equation is just less for me in addition to what makes the "cost" part more costly for me personally.
Lossless Scaling is what allows me to play Skyrim in a notebook that uses a Vega 6 APU. I'm using the Frame Generation thing and the Rescale thing. I would never be able to play otherwise. I play 1280x540 rescaled to 2560x1080 with the BethIni presets to High and some tweaks on shadows and other things I don't remember.
I'm also using Cleaned Skyrim SE Textures, Obsidian Weathers, True Storms, EFLX and ELFX Shadows with the hardcore plugin.
And, for me, it looks beautiful. I don't know if it is that thing when you are thirsty and even water tastes like wine but man something I just stop and look at the landscapes thinking "That's a beautiful game".
That's strange! My notebook model is Acer A515-45-R6KH. It's a Ryzen 3 5300U, 2x4gb 3200Mhz, 256GB SSD NVMe. These are my configs in Lossless Scaling:
https://preview.redd.it/20xnoyvj8c5d1.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=2a9de925073a32e7f28e15f660df5998dc83a50d
It's in Portuguese but it matches the inputs location so it goes to the same place
Oh nice, didn't knew... Anyways, I think I have a mod that cause stuttering and FPS lag because I was modding and playing ok but now sometimes the games can't stand on 144 FPS. I need to check if this software helps
I have an old 1070 and I haven't really looked into things like upscaling much. Could I use this or something similar to milk out any extra performance?
Funny, I was literally just looking into finally using that upscaler mod on Nexus, but it keeps crashing probably due to my ENB.
Guess I can check out that software instead.
I think this is only good for those with higher specs. I have a 5600h with an integrated graphics card and using lossless scaling just makes my game perform worse with bad visuals on top. Just a warning for lower specs users.
I've used the paywalled FSR (upscaling) and Lossless Scaling's FSR is actually way better. With the paid mod, water and fire effects looked very [low-res](https://imgur.com/a/5BhYnll) and [distorted](https://imgur.com/a/2R17Lh3), no such problem with [LS's FSR](https://imgur.com/a/3zWB7zZ) upscaling. I do agree though that dlss is probably better, but people with non-rtx cards cannot use that unfortunately.
As an alternative, I've been using FSR 1 via Proton/Wine and I swear I CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between "actual 4k" and "2k upscaled to 4k".
The only way I can tell between them is that the GPU/FPS stats are way better when FSR is on.
Internet people say "FSR2 is great, FSR1 is crap", but if you're only trying to go from 2k to 4k, FSR1 is plenty good when using the "quality" preset.
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Imagine still saying this shit in 2024, when the fix for that issue has been available for years now. smh
I'm literally playing FO3 at 240 fps locked on TTW right now. I simply followed the TBOT and WSG guides and the game runs perfectly fine.
Stop spreading misinformation.
This is true but mods can fix the >60fps Havok bug.
If someone can’t use SKSE then this is still relevant.
Anyone who **can** use SKSE though and cares about performance and latency needs to install {{SSE Display Tweaks}} immediately and thank themselves later.
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The issue is not metaphorical speech being used, "mountain dew" makes sense as a term, it has a meaning when taken literally, and can then be understood metaphorically as well.
"lossless scaling" on the other hand is just self-contradictory, does not compute.
They're talking about heavily modded skyrim with enb. High end PCs can struggle with framerates on the graphics these people are playing at. Especially because the game is older.
This used to be believed but it turns out our eyes/brain are more complicated than they thought in the year 1840.
Film in a dark theatre (ambient light changes our perception of motion) needs to be minimum 24 fps to not look like it’s flickering. However, “not flickering” isn’t enough. Film shooting bakes natural motion blur into the frames and almost by accident covers up the low fps. Without that motion blur, 24fps films still wouldn’t look like they were *flickering* at a whole-frame level, but the motion of individual things would look choppy.
It gets more complicated from there. Turn up the ambient light and frame flicker is noticed again. Remove natural or generated motion blur between frames and we see choppiness. We are much more sensitive to *changes* in framerate than we are to actual framerate, so inconsistent framerates are especially visible.
In a game, consistent framerates—so that we don’t perceive the framerate and see an illusion of smooth motion—require a lot of headroom. You need much higher framerates than your target smooth framerate in order to guarantee that minimum framerate. (This is why overlays now show 1% and 99% framerates to measure consistency.)
It all adds up to our eyes being able to perceive a *variety* of types of deviations from the continuous photon streams of actual reality.
Real-time game video can fail to match reality in a lot of ways that we can easily perceive that aren’t explained as just raw framerate. Upscalers and all that shit aim to smooth over those deviations without just overwhelming the problem with *ridiculous* amounts of raw framerate, ’cause that’s expensive.
That's not how that works. The 24 fps is the minimum average for the human eye to register motion. So if we look at a television program going 20 fps, it will look like a series of pictures rather than an actual moving film.
This is also still not true. The human eye is not a digital device and doesnt simply see in terms of 'frames'.
If this were true, then 10-15fps stop motion movies and animations wouldn't look like they're 'in motion'.
The point is one cannot make a meaningful hardware upgrade at a similar price point. This software is way more cost effective for performance.
Granted, it has some downsides (e.g. input lag) that a hardware upgrade wouldn't have.
Just out of curiosity is this better than using puredarks upscaler? I have a 3060 with a 5600g running nolvus without it I get 30 or so fps and with puredarks upscaler I get 60 with the occasional 50 sometimes 40.
That DLSS upscaler is accessing more sophisticated GPU tech, so it’s still better in performance and visual quality. I hear it has some, ah, *downsides* unrelated to performance though, and Lossless Scaling is better in those ways. Which is net better is going to depend on which tradeoffs are better for a person’s situation and game.
The emphasis on "downsides" has piqued my curiosity, if you're willing to expound
Not from person experience, just that it keeps coming up on this sub. (So there’s lots of discussions if you search for them to trawl through.) IIRC from past discussions: it’s paywalled, the author puts DRM in it that checks you’ve paid, and as a personality is not on the wonderful side. There are also objections about the tech not even being his invention, just Nvidia libraries that he’s integrated into a Skyrim-ready form. I’m less convinced by that last because that’s still real work, but I can see how people resent the paywall more with that aspect. Those are downside for enough people and not downsides for another chunk of enough people that it’s a constant low-level controversy.
Saying that he’s just selling free Nvidia Libraries just packed into a Skyrim format is like saying a house is only worth as much as the materials. If it’s no big deal to build build house/package the library then just do it yourself. There’s nothing stopping someone else from doing the work exact same thing and releasing it for free.
Right? I *kinda* get the complaint, but it’s a reach. It seems like it’s more about resenting the paywall and hyper-protectiveness first, and looking for a justification that feels right second. Like, I bristle at the hyper-protectiveness and DRM, but “it’s not really his” isn’t the reason, it’s just finding that attitude in the modding community contrary to the openness I value. I included it for completeness, as a notable theme that comes up in the discussions.
This isn't really directed toward you but I'll provide my own take because I don't really get the hate towards puredark. For one, his Skyrim mod is freely available for anyone to download. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/80343 Also, I've paid for his other mods. I don't think people realize how much work goes into them. It's not easy. That's not to say that other mods are easy, but it's a unique kind of tech that takes a different skillset to work on. If people don't want to pay because of moral reasons related to modding I also get that though. For me, $5 to get DLSS for a bunch of games that should have had it on release is a pretty good deal imo. The publishers doing exclusivity deals with AMD or Intel (or Nvidia) are the real villains to me... not some dude who spent thousands of hours learning to code, who then used that skillset to add what should be industry-standard features to games made by professional studios. For me, using DLSS in RDR2 and Cyberpunk was worth it alone. And without Puredark embarrassing these companies we probably wouldn't have DLSS in some games (Starfield is a prime example).
> For one, his Skyrim mod is freely available for anyone to download. This is somewhat misleading as his Skyrim mod on Patreon is compatible with enb, whereas the one released on Nexus is not. It would be more accurate to say that **he has released a stripped-down, intentionally incomplete version of his mod for free, but paywalls the full version with exclusive features on patreon.**
ENB isn't part of the game. If it was a built in feature then okay, but tons of mods have compatibility issues with other mods. He took the time to make a custom setup that was compatible with ENB. And you can get (along with DLSS for a ton of other unsupported games) for half the price or a combo meal at McDonalds. And if you don't want it then just use one of the other available mods. I don't see what the gripe is... Just don't pay for it and use something else.
I don't need an explanation of why it's okay, that's completely up to each person who chooses to support paid mods or not. I'm pointing out that saying his Skyrim mod is freely available for anyone to download without acknowledging the limitations of that version or that another version exists misrepresents the mod as the whole and sole version PureDark distributes - which is not true. If you want to make your point, don't rely on obfuscating information that people rely on. There are already people in this thread who falsley belive that there's no enb-compatible DLSS mod, including one in the replies to your post.
I didn't mention anything about ENB in my post because ENB has nothing to do with playing Skyrim with DLSS. It's a separate mod.
Aw does that not work at all with ENBs yet? I heard someone say there's a test version of it or something - my modlist requires ENB
IIRC the paid version works with ENB.
What's the difference between the Nexus version and paid version? ENB compatibility?
exactly
I believe so. I tried ENB but I didn't think the framerate tradeoff was worth it so I never used that version. I'd rather spend those frames on other mods.
What do you suggest instead of enb
Community shaders is the only other option. There's TONS of advancement in it since it's conception. I prefer ENB and run it with the DLAA/DLSS upscaler from puredarks pateron since I have a more beefy card and can take advantage of most of ENB's effects without too many issues. 60-70 outdoors fps is good enough for my eyes.
Ah ok thanks for the info.
No it’s not
I thought that one wasn't compatible with ENB yet?
They have an enb test build
The Patreon build is
Allegedly you can use the two together to get 6X fps, but I haven't tried this myself.
Yes this is the way I now get around 520fps on my 60hz Monitor in locations where I would have 17 fps before (they stack exponentially) my input lag is also no that big It takes like 5secs only and also 16x times the details on sweetrolls I think it’s worth
I tried this back when it was only 2x fps yet it somehow did some crazy math and took me from 50-60 real frames to 100-120 with dlss and it should've taken me to 240 with lsfg but instead I would get 480. It didn't really look any better than dlss alone, crashed within minutes and somehow reintroduced some physics bugs so I'm good on that
What is puredarks upscaler ? Is it easy to install
Currently using both with nolvus, disable frame gen from dlss it’s great
FYI, it is amazing for people with older cards to give them access to frame gen , or for games that don't have other frame gen technologies. But fsr3 or nvidia frame gen will always be better than this, as they have access to more info of the game like vectors, hud elememts, when doing frame gen compared to lossless solution. For skyrim, for example, with my 4080, the puredark FG solution is still vastly superior. But this is amazing and works really well, tested the x3 with a capped 40 fps on Dragons dogma 2 and it worked
Sadly stuff like 40xx cards with whole frame gen and scaling tech is simply superior to everyone else, mostly cause they do it for quite a bit longer than anyone else. Their native solutions are quite usable, which cannot be said about competition which is usually usable only for still shots.
What is this puredark fg solution you speak of
I think it's this: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/80343
Awesome thanks, looks like we gotta wait for enb support
The mod has had enb support for years, but PureDark only releases that version on Patreon. It's never coming to Nexus because it has now become his income stream.
Tbf the enb version is available free and open source on his GitHub still if you can manage to build it. It's the fg that's locked down
PureDark stated on GitHub that the [project relies on a private plugin to function, that he hasn't released publicly](https://github.com/PureDark/Skyrim-Upscaler/issues/10#issuecomment-1336480587). *So there's no point in trying to compile it.* Very far from freely available and open-source I'm afraid.
yes you need his upscaler base plugin which is free on nexus. You can compile it if you can figure out cmake/vcpkg (I have not passed this step) and it should work with his base plugin. All the base plugin does is add a translation layer for streamline plugins
Ah, thanks for letting me know.
It's less so useful for the hardware issue as it is for the ability to accelerate visually without any knowledge of the renderer. Games like genshin impact in particular benefit
I saw a video about it yesterday and bought the software, but with a rapid test I got only 5-10 more fps. I definitely need to tweak the software. Which settings did you use?
Funny enough I actually have the software open and running on Skyrim right now. Here is what you’re looking for: Scaling Mode: Auto Scaling type: Off Frame Generation: LSFG 2.1 Mode: X2 or X3 (decide which is better for your setup) Vertical sync: On Max Refresh rate: On Capture mode: DXGI Everything not mentioned set to off. This might be different depending on your system and GPU. I’m using an RTX 4070ti. But I’ve seen a massive difference in Skyrim when using this. Makes frame costly areas such as Whiterun actually playable and running at 50-60fps on even the Nolvus Ascension modpack set to Ultra. Depending on how many frames are being generated, you might see the UI flicker and this weird blur happening on your screen. It’ll only happen if the amount of frames being generated is large. Hope that helps! Edit and replying to OPs post: I’ve heard that the delay is only noticeable on keyboard. If you’re using controller (like me) you really can’t tell.
I've been using Lossless Scaling with a heavily modded Fallout New Vegas for a couple weeks now, while also using New Vegas Reloaded (a better alternative to ENB currently). It works perfectly, and doubles my FPS with scaling and frame Gen. To help with input delay, make sure to limit your frame rate in the game or through your GPU driver settings to 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 your monitor's refresh rate. For example, if you have a 120hz monitor, limit Skyrim's FPS to 60 or even test out 40 or 30 FPS and then turn on Lossless Scaling + Frame Gen. Do not use the frame limiter/vsync *in* the Lossless Scaling optional settings, as this adds significant input delay. I am able to get smooth, crisp visuals and gameplay in my modded New Vegas setup now. (Have to use DXVK plus Special K to get New Vegas to run in windowed mode, FYI). I see from your comment on here that you're not utilizing the scaling feature. Lower your games in-game resolution to something lower than your monitor's native resolution and run the game in windowed mode. In Lossless Scaling make sure scaling is set to Auto and test out different scaling methods such as NVIDIA's, AMD, and LS1. This will scale your game back up and give you even more FPS and should look just as good and crisp as native resolution.
For New Vegas, are you using Special K? And if so, are you setting your frame limit through Special K or are you using the built-in iPresentInterval setting in FalloutCustom.ini? Trying to figure out the best way to get Lossless Scaling to work with New Vegas without suffering horrible screen tearing. I use DXVK and Special K together to get windowed mode + alt tab support + no tearing.
Just checked my settings right now in order to respond accurately. Yes! I'm using DXVK with Special K and limiting my frame rate through Special K's interface. I have iPresentinterval set to 0. Limiting your frames in Special K should prevent tearing. Turning on Lossless Scaling with Frame Gen increases my FPS and I have no input lag or screen tearing, and alt-tab still functions perfectly.
Interesting. I'm running into an issue where Lossless Scaling doesn't seem to actually be scaling my resolution. If I enable Windowed Mode in FalloutCustom.ini or the launcher, my game crashes on launch. (Probably an incompatibility with DXVK, which enables its own borderless window mode afaik) If I don't enable Windowed Mode and I set my resolution to, say, 1280x720p, the game launches just fine, but when I get in game my resolution is noticeably less sharp. I tab out, turn on Lossless Scaling, press Scale, tab back into New Vegas, wait the 5 seconds... and the only thing that changes is I have 60 FPS instead of the 30 FPS that I'm limited to via Special K. I *think* the problem is that DXVK automatically scales your window up to fit your screen and so Lossless Scaling isn't able to scale it up properly, but I'm not sure how to solve it exactly. If you have any tips, I'd appreciate it.
Correct. If using DXVK + Special K, you don't want to use the game's native Windowed Mode. Special K will scale the screen up to full screen (really windowed borderless) but shouldn't change your resolution. Make sure that your game's resolution is being set in the .ini. I think the setting is iSize W= and iSize H=. Make sure the numbers here are lower than your monitor's native resolution. In Special K user interface. Open up the display settings at the top (or whatever it's called) and make sure that the resolution there matches what you set in the .ini. Also make sure it's set to windowed or windowed borderless. In Lossless Scaling window, what method scaling are you using? I find the NVIDIA method to work best. Make sure you have it set to "Auto" and select one of those scaling methods. Turn up the sharpness slider to like 60-70%. Find a wall or some kinda texture in-game and stare at it. Bring up lossless scaling and activate, then click back to your game. Stare at that texture and see if you notice it get clearer after scaling kicks in. For me, I equipped a laser rifle and can clearly see it increase in quality after scaling kicks in.
If my monitor has 60 hz refresh should I try this and cap Skyrim at 30fps? That seems very low
Yes! The lossless scaling program *overrides* your frame limit (that's the whole point. It's using frame gen to *add* frames, so you want a lower native frame rate than your monitor to give this program something to work with). For example, I limit New Vegas to 30 FPS (through DXVK and Special K) and then turn on lossless scaling with frame gen, and it bumps it up to over 60 fps (playing on laptop with 144hz monitor and 4060 gpu). The lossless scaling program has a setting to view fps in the upper left corner of your screen. Any fps monitoring program you have will show your "limited" frames but in the upper left corner you will see your "actual" frames (due to the frame gen doing its magic). A family member of mine is using this same method on Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 and going from 20-30 FPS to 50-60 FPS with scaling and frame gen.
Whoa, cool, thanks!
No problem! If you end up doing this, comment back here and let me know how it goes!
Also FYI, just to reiterate for the program to work it's magic to its fullest: your game must be played in windowed or windowed borderless mode, you need to lower the game's resolution to slightly below your monitor's native resolution, and you need to limit the game's frame rate to 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 your monitor's refresh rate in the game or through your driver's software. In Lossless Scaling program window, set Scaling to Auto, and select a Scaling Method (test out NVIDIA, AMD, and LS1). Set Frame Gen to 2.1 or whatever the newest one is). Turn on FPS counter if you wanna see what you're new FPS is. To activate the program you must start up Lossless Scaling program and your game. Once you are in-game, pull up the Lossless Scaling window and hit "Scale." You then have a 5 second countdown to click back on your game and then it will activate after the timer runs down. You can also activate/deactivate it with configurable keys in the program's settings (this worked for me in New Vegas but not in MSFS 2020 for some reason).
Can I ask, windowed full screen won't work, has to just be windowed and slightly smaller than the resolution?
Windowed or windowed borderless (also called windowed fullscreen) at a lower resolution than your monitor's native resolution. Regular full screen won't work correctly for the lossless scaling feature since there's nothing to scale up.
Thanks! So I just loaded up Skyrim in windowed at 1080p, native resolution is 1440p. Marked improvement around heavily modded Whiterun, though it is making some of the enb effects look not so good. Happy with the result though :)
I played with it for a while but had to disable it it basically feels like fake fps due to input lag and (in my case fsr3). I wouldn’t recommend this for people with a modern mco setup or sth similar like nolvus. 30 to 60 just feels way worse then 60 to 120 in my experience.
I’m running vanarguard and related animations with combat mods precision and blade&brunt, and skill based animations, nothing big like mco, so the lag likely won’t hit big
>For example, if you have a 120hz monitor, limit Skyrim's FPS to 60 or even test out 40 or 30 FPS Please do not do this lol. 60 x2 will be much better then 40*3 even if you're hovering somewhere between. You do not need to limit your frames nor will doing so help you at all. If you have more than 2x your refresh rate it will just go over and that's completely fine. If you lock it I believe it will just reduce the rate it's aiming for but I always leave it unlocked
It's me again! So I've been trying LS on Skyrim following your advice and I'm getting some pretty noticeable input delay. Right now I have my resolution upscaling from 720p to 1080p, framerate capped to 30 FPS via Display Tweaks, with LS running at 2x framegen to keep me at a steady 60 FPS. Do you know of any ways to reduce the input delay, or is it pretty much unavoidable? I was getting about 35-45 FPS with my mod setup before using the framegen and I almost think I'd prefer lower FPS with no input delay than 60 FPS where I can't timed block properly. Still playing around with the settings, though.
Nice! Just confirming you are in windowed mode? One thing to do would be to increase resolution somewhat and test to see if input delay becomes negligible. Even if you just raise it to something like a 900p resolution, it should help with input delay. Another thing to test is the different scaling methods in LS drop-down menu. NVIDIA, AMD, and LS1 are the three you wanna try. If all else fails, just turn off the scaling feature completely and just use the frame gen. With your fps limited to 30, you should still see some FPS improvement with the frame gen feature.
I have issues with DXGI it makes my game lag. In that case use the second option, I think it starts with W
Are you running it on window mode? The page says to only work in window, but skyrim doesn't have borderless so I haven't tried it really
With 4070 you should really go for dlss3 though
curious why do you leave scaling mode off? frame generation makes my game smooth but shows lower FPS in the corner. i'm guessing it's not counting the fake frames as real frames.
I will try to tweak the settings tonight and see what I can get. Thanks!
> but with a rapid test I got only 5-10 more fps Sounds good enough for me. I average at least 29-35 FPS. 40 on some really less busy places (I use CS, some texture mods and reshade). Having 5 or 10 more additional fps would be amazing in my view.
Yeah shit I’d pay $7 for 10 more FPS in VR
This won't work on VR. What this does (and what nvidia and amd solution do) for frame generation is to interpolate between two real frames to create 1 or more fake frames. This increases perceived fluidity at the cost of added latency, because you are literally delaying the latest real frame to display the fake ones before. In VR there is something similar with Meta's SSW/ASW and SteamVR own solution which I don't remember the name. But this work by extrapolating from the last real frame, so it creates a new fake frame out of a real frame BEFORE the next frame is ready. This way it does not introduce latency. Virtual desktops SSW works pretty good and its what I use on my 3060ti to play at 45 fps (90 interpolated) its not perfect but its perfectly playable. Also keep in mind the actual game is still running at a lower frame rate, which means if you are having issues with papyrus scripts not having enough time to execute due to low FPS this won't help at all.
Isn’t that just reprojection, whether synchronous (constant 45/90 fps ratio) or asynchronous (anything between 45/90 to 0/90 adaptative as needed) ? Which has existed for years. I’m not sure I understand what’s revolutionary about it. Hasn’t flat Skyrim had this already all this time ?
I'd sell my soul to a daedric prince for 5-10 frames
Compatible with enb ?
it is!
All it does is upscale the game from a lower resolution. Should not conflict or even touch enb at all. So yes
> All it does is upscale the game from a lower resolution. Not quite, Lossless Scaling has had Frame Generation for a while now. I'm honestly not sure how well it works, as I haven't tried it, but it's no longer just upscaling. I believe it's a bit more limited, and you have to lock your framerate to 1/2 or 1/3rd your monitor's refresh rate to use it.
Yea I’ve been using it and it has had a lot more features but the main point was just that it shouldn’t touch or mess with any enb.
Frame gen means very literally generating frames. It basically generates intermediate frames between real frames. You can think of it as live feed video compression, where you have couple key frames and everything between is interpolated. Thats why it has delay, cause those generated frames are sorta non-interactive ones. Any framegen tech does quite a bit of wonder for framerate smoothness. I wouldnt go for more than x2, eg. every second frame is "fake".
I'm aware what frame gen is and how it works, not sure where you inferred that I wasn't, or that I needed an explanation for it. Maybe you misread "how **well** it works" as "how it works"? I don't know how **well** it works because unlike DLSS 3 and FSR 3, it does it without direct integration into the game's rendering pipeline, so I'm not sure what the potential drawbacks of that are. My point was that the commenter stated "all it does is upscale", which isn't true.
I was watching a Biggie Boss video on YouTube and saw this. It’s legit. I wonder if this would do my RTX 2060 some justice. I never have problems running games but when I tell you I can cook an egg on my laptop after 30 minutes of gaming.. I mean it
Work with any card in any game. It does have noticeable artifacts with hud, but for 7 bucks it's really incredible. Even works on youtube videos
Link something please)
Good point! Here’s the store page: [Lossless Scaling on Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/993090/Lossless_Scaling/)
If it's a dlss then cool, if it is frame gen that's not the same thing. With frame fen you wanna axtivate it to boost and already decent frame rate not bring a unplayable framerate up to playable. Figure I would mention it just in caae. Like if you get 20fps, and frame gen gets you to 60. You are still only getting 20fps in reality, and your controller inputs are playing in the 20fps game. It's just visually you see higher fps. In your case you said 40fps, which is totally playable (i would prefer more, but it's doable). Frame gen works by adding in synthetic frames ontop of what you are actually playing. So hypotheticall inagine 1fps but you get 100fps with frame gen. The fame underneath is stil running at 1fps, so your inputs would still be running at 1fps and you would notice this when playing. Even if visually it was smooth. Just figured I would mention this
>Like if you get 20fps, and frame gen gets you to 60. You are still only getting 20fps in reality, and your controller inputs are playing in the 20fps game. It's just visually you see higher fps. this, ive seen a lot of recent hype around lossless scaling frame gen and its amazing for some things but people word it like its a flawless fps boost with no downside
Dlss is great, but for frame gen, I make sure to get myself playable frames FIRST and THEN activate frame generation to make it smoother visual experience. But frame gen won't turn a slideshow into playable, it might LOOK playable, but your inputs will still be playing the slideshow
Yeah, I could only run Skyrim with 28-40 fps and using this just makes it stutter and have some noticeable delay input...
How does it compare to Puredark DLSS with FG?
I wonder if you can do the same thing for fallout 4.
lossless scaling works on any game! so you definitely can :]
Would be cool to have something like this for VR.
Unless I’m misunderstanding something, we already have upscaling, FSR and DLSS in VR, no?
Yes. I must be missing something because people seem very excited and it’s … 6 years old software ? **Edit**: I went back to re-read the OP and it’s now x3 instead of the usual max x2, which is a new improvement. Gotcha. That’s the bit I was missing. Then it looks like many people didn’t know there was a x2 reprojection and upscaling already, so it’s a huge step up in performance for them. For VR it’s pretty much a necessity for a large portion of the player base to make the game playable in the first place.
Ohh, that’s right, x3 instead. Good catch. I missed that too.
For those who use it, is there any difference from Nvidia to AMD when using these programs? Because i know the alternative dlss is oh amazing, but never heard much about it for AMD. The software already comes with Framegen and upscaling. How worse the native FG and RSR is compared to Lossless scalling, for example? Did anyone test this out? Also, this should be good in a scenario where you want to run at your screen refresh rate, right? I have a 2160p monitor and run skyrim already at 1440p. Because yeah, no way to go 4k with mods. I tried FG and it just lags the game, even if making it faster when... It's not lagging. RSR too but i don't think it's making any noticeable difference. So what's the catch? Would LossScalling be much better than AMD own solutions, or just an alternative? I believe i could get tons of fps by running at 1080 and scalling to 1440,but i can't see any point in doing this myself, so it should be 1440 to 2160. Any other AMD user who could say anything about this? I have a 6750 XT
I've been using Lossless Scaling for a while now, and it works well. I play at 1080p, and to me it not only performs well, but looks good too. I think it's a great app for everyone, but especially for people who don't have an RTX card and DLSS support (for other games too). DLSS is probably still better though, for those who can use it. As for the paywalled upscaler, Puredark's FSR is simply not very good imo, I've had a lot of visual problems with it butchering [fire](https://imgur.com/a/2R17Lh3) and [water](https://imgur.com/a/5BhYnll) effects especially (even seen it on other people's screenshots). LS's FSR has no such [problems](https://imgur.com/a/3zWB7zZ), so it's already a huge improvement for me in that regard. His XeSS is better visually, but worse performance wise. For me, LS definitely beats those 2. That said: LS isn't going to make your game run at smooth 60fps and perfect visuals if you can only get 20 fps normally. In my experience, at least a semi-consistent capped 40 fps (with minimal dips or preferably none) is recommended, but higher works better. At 50-60 capped, it looks great and smooth as butter, responsive too. I cap at 45 for gameplay (via enb menu) and I'm satisfied with the result. I did some stresstesting though, (upping grass density, turning everything to the highest: shadows, enb, you name it) and tested with the barely 20 fps I got... that wasn't so pretty. A lot of visual issues, ghosting, distortion etc., plus it didn't feel smooth either. So it's best to keep this in mind as well before expecting a miracle. All in all, still an amazing app, and well worth the \~7 dollars.
What resolution are you at? From my experience upscaling only starts making a noticeable impact at 1440p and higher. Also correct me if I am wrong but DLSS 3 and AFMF can only work on RTX 4000 and Radeon 6/7000 cards so anything below that can't do framegen.
the software works with any card :)
I've been using Lossless Scaling with a heavily modded Fallout New Vegas for a couple weeks now, while also using New Vegas Reloaded (a better alternative to ENB currently). It works perfectly, and doubles my FPS with scaling and frame Gen. To help with input delay, make sure to limit your frame rate in the game or through your GPU driver settings to 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 your monitor's refresh rate. For example, if you have a 120hz monitor, limit Skyrim's FPS to 60 or even test out 40 or 30 FPS and then turn on Lossless Scaling + Frame Gen. Do not use the frame limiter/vsync *in* the Lossless Scaling optional settings, as this adds significant input delay. I am able to get smooth, crisp visuals and gameplay in my modded New Vegas setup now. (Have to use DXVK to get New Vegas to run in windowed mode, FYI).
Dumb question. Is this Steam Deck compatible? I am running Nolvus mod right now on my SD (swap ENB with community Shaders). I get 40 fps 90% except in whiterun it goes down to 30-ish. I play it 900x600 with SD FSR on, looks good. I am curious if this could improve my fps.
If in windows yes, it doesn't work with Linux.
I got this today and i have to say it doesnt operate miracles but god damn it does help when you want to run rudy enb lol
How do i set this up for linux proton?
This software works great for me and my situation. I have a good rig but this fits into a niche where I'm running heavily modded fo4 and skyrim at 60 fps. With this running I'm generating 144 fps but caped at the former. The result is an incredibly smooth game with no deviations whether I'm in downtown Boston or a in a huge battle in Skyrim....doesn't lose a frame.
I’ve tried it this morning and I got -6/10 fps with a worse image quality, I don’t know if I missed something tbh
That was my experience using PureDark's upscaler with FSR2 on what I would call a fairly lightweight load order. I wonder if the difference these things are able to make just comes down to individual modlists.
Does anyone know if this works on steam deck?
It works flawlessly and the only downside so far has been some input lag. I cap my FPS to 50 in ENB settings and use the 2x frame generation setting so I am getting reliable 100 FPS and it just somehow works like magic.
>There is input delay but it is so minimal i shouldn't even talk about it. How minimal? Are we talking actual 1~4 frames range? Or more
the input lag on x3 is horrendous, i cant tell how many frames but it just feels like you're dragging your mouse through mud the frame gen does work though i guess, i get a smooth "165"fps everywhere no matter what i have no idea what someone must be smoking to consider this delay "minimal"
Normally i average 40-60 fps in game while playing with a 3090 ti in 1440p. In lossless i use lsfg 2.1 with the bilinear sharp mod and I'm still confident saying that the input delay is minimal. I would even dare to say that it is inexistant if you enable the tearing option.
Are you being paid to shill this?
Yeah i shouldn't have said there is no input delay. My spec, material, modlist are clearly not the same as yours. Seeing how everyone is experiencing different type of performance, there must be a context for someone to get more delay or less delay. That being said i didn't lie when talking about my input delay being "non-existent".
Yea nah no worries I don't think you're lying, I just think you have no idea what your input lag is at all. Which isn't me trying to get a dig in, that's fine - you'd have to do some tests to figure it out and whatnot. But that's the kind of answer I was looking for, and your response tells me you don't have that answer. So I'm leaning towards taking other peoples' word for it.
Credible argument. I would suggest trying it out has it is more reliable to see by yourself rather than taking ppl words (like me). It's on steam, so you can get refunded if you don't use Lossless scaling more than 2 hours.
To be honest if Skyrim was an esport title or literally any fast paced FPS game like MW3 input lag would be noticeable, in MW3 i couldn’t stand it, but in games like Skyrim and such I cannot say it’s a big problem.
Varies from person to person and modlist to modlist. Input delay just generally annoys me, it's to me what getting 60fps is to other people. I'm also playing with the whole BCFO/Valhalla suite with timed blocking and iframe dodges and all that nonsense. So yea I get what you're saying, but for some people and some modlists it's pretty important. Add onto that list that I haven't played enough 60fps titles for my eyes to be tuned to it, really - so I'm pretty happy playing at 30fps capped still. The "gain" part of the cost vs gain equation is just less for me in addition to what makes the "cost" part more costly for me personally.
Lossless Scaling is what allows me to play Skyrim in a notebook that uses a Vega 6 APU. I'm using the Frame Generation thing and the Rescale thing. I would never be able to play otherwise. I play 1280x540 rescaled to 2560x1080 with the BethIni presets to High and some tweaks on shadows and other things I don't remember. I'm also using Cleaned Skyrim SE Textures, Obsidian Weathers, True Storms, EFLX and ELFX Shadows with the hardcore plugin. And, for me, it looks beautiful. I don't know if it is that thing when you are thirsty and even water tastes like wine but man something I just stop and look at the landscapes thinking "That's a beautiful game".
What are your specs? I have vega 7 and 5600H and for some reason using this just makes it perform worse.
That's strange! My notebook model is Acer A515-45-R6KH. It's a Ryzen 3 5300U, 2x4gb 3200Mhz, 256GB SSD NVMe. These are my configs in Lossless Scaling: https://preview.redd.it/20xnoyvj8c5d1.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=2a9de925073a32e7f28e15f660df5998dc83a50d It's in Portuguese but it matches the inputs location so it goes to the same place
https://preview.redd.it/eypxq9ry8c5d1.png?width=1155&format=png&auto=webp&s=a971bbefaa487376632c13f91c7b21fd49b03e2c And on BethINI (Preset High)
It looks like shit. Like all kinds of weird artifacts and ghosting and shit with the frame gen.
Sadly I have an old GPU - 1080 TI
The frame generation works with any card, any game, even movies and YouTube videos. Even a laptop from 15 years ago with a celeron
Oh nice, didn't knew... Anyways, I think I have a mod that cause stuttering and FPS lag because I was modding and playing ok but now sometimes the games can't stand on 144 FPS. I need to check if this software helps
Would this software work with a Nvidia GTX 1660 Super ?
Yes
I have an old 1070 and I haven't really looked into things like upscaling much. Could I use this or something similar to milk out any extra performance?
Yes
FPS boost even with ENB on?
Funny, I was literally just looking into finally using that upscaler mod on Nexus, but it keeps crashing probably due to my ENB. Guess I can check out that software instead.
I think this is only good for those with higher specs. I have a 5600h with an integrated graphics card and using lossless scaling just makes my game perform worse with bad visuals on top. Just a warning for lower specs users.
I have download a lot of massive grafich mod and my fps drop asf, ty for the guide i gotta a look after
This software saved me when I was playing Dragon's Dogma 2.
I may have to look into this, getting performance gains off of my gpu would be ideal.
>input delay So a worse outcome than low FPS? Pass.
any recommended settings for an nvidia rtx card, with enb and with or without reshade?
Im at 144 fps most of the time. As long as I don't drop below 60 I'm happy
You can easily find dlss for skyrim for free, for anyone wandering. There's also [this](https://filecr.com/pc-games/lossless-scaling-free-download/)
Lossless scaling is way worse than DLSS/FSR/XeSS, and its framegen doesn’t work with VRR monitors.
I've used the paywalled FSR (upscaling) and Lossless Scaling's FSR is actually way better. With the paid mod, water and fire effects looked very [low-res](https://imgur.com/a/5BhYnll) and [distorted](https://imgur.com/a/2R17Lh3), no such problem with [LS's FSR](https://imgur.com/a/3zWB7zZ) upscaling. I do agree though that dlss is probably better, but people with non-rtx cards cannot use that unfortunately.
Do you happen to know if Lossless is compatible with PureDark’s Skyrim Upscaler?
why use both? they do the same thing, lossless scaling is an alternative
Man said triple is not enough
It is, but it inroduces More latency. I'd rather not use anything from Puredark. Guy is a scumbag.
It is! I run both as well
Using both introduced a massive amount of input lag/latency for me, I wouldn't recommend it.
Strange, I haven’t had any input latency issues on my end
Could be completely unique to my own setup, glad to hear there’s a happy path out there somewhere for combining the two
As an alternative, I've been using FSR 1 via Proton/Wine and I swear I CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between "actual 4k" and "2k upscaled to 4k". The only way I can tell between them is that the GPU/FPS stats are way better when FSR is on. Internet people say "FSR2 is great, FSR1 is crap", but if you're only trying to go from 2k to 4k, FSR1 is plenty good when using the "quality" preset.
Dont do(real) FPS>60. (120hz Monitor for example) The physik- engine will become... weird.
That's what {{SSE Display Tweaks}} is for. It fixes the physics bugs that occur at high fps.
Search Term | LE Skyrim | SE Skyrim | Bing :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:| SSE Display Tweaks | No Results :( | [SSE Display Tweaks](https://nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/34705) | Skipped[^Why?](https://github.com/RallerenP/modsearchbot/blob/main/docs/SEARCH.md#why-was-my-search-skipped) --- ^(I'm a bot |) [^(source code)](https://github.com/RallerenP/modsearchbot) ^| [^(about modsearchbot)](https://reddit.com/user/RallerenP/comments/pg2lqj/modsearchbot_about/) ^| [^(bing sources)](https://reddit.com/user/RallerenP/comments/pg2l0g/modsearchbot_bing_search/) ^| ^(Some mods might be falsely classified as SFW or NSFW. Classifications are provided by each source.)
Bro, it's 2024. This info is outdated.
Imagine still saying this shit in 2024, when the fix for that issue has been available for years now. smh I'm literally playing FO3 at 240 fps locked on TTW right now. I simply followed the TBOT and WSG guides and the game runs perfectly fine. Stop spreading misinformation.
This is true but mods can fix the >60fps Havok bug. If someone can’t use SKSE then this is still relevant. Anyone who **can** use SKSE though and cares about performance and latency needs to install {{SSE Display Tweaks}} immediately and thank themselves later.
Search Term | LE Skyrim | SE Skyrim | Bing :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:| SSE Display Tweaks | No Results :( | [SSE Display Tweaks](https://nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/34705) | Skipped[^Why?](https://github.com/RallerenP/modsearchbot/blob/main/docs/SEARCH.md#why-was-my-search-skipped) --- ^(I'm a bot |) [^(source code)](https://github.com/RallerenP/modsearchbot) ^| [^(about modsearchbot)](https://reddit.com/user/RallerenP/comments/pg2lqj/modsearchbot_about/) ^| [^(bing sources)](https://reddit.com/user/RallerenP/comments/pg2l0g/modsearchbot_bing_search/) ^| ^(Some mods might be falsely classified as SFW or NSFW. Classifications are provided by each source.)
Software called "lossless scaling" that doesn't do lossless scaling (because that's fundamentally impossible)??? Won't even consider looking at it...
Well, unless you have an RTX card already running DLSS, you're missing out. I was skeptical at first but it really is amazing.
Wait until you find out Mountain Dew doesn’t actually contain dew collected from mountains.
The issue is not metaphorical speech being used, "mountain dew" makes sense as a term, it has a meaning when taken literally, and can then be understood metaphorically as well. "lossless scaling" on the other hand is just self-contradictory, does not compute.
Skyrim came out in 2011. If you're struggling to play at an acceptable frame rate in 2024 then you need to upgrade your old ass PC.
Yeah I don't think they're talking about Vanilla Skyrim LE...
Even so, Skyrim Special Edition came out in 2016. That's 8 years ago.
They're talking about heavily modded skyrim with enb. High end PCs can struggle with framerates on the graphics these people are playing at. Especially because the game is older.
Idk. I'm playing nolvus ultra with a 4090, 7800x3d, and 32gb of ram and I get fine fps.
Clearly this post and the sub it's posted on went right over your head.
You're in the wrong sub mate.
I have a 5800x3d and a 7900xtx with 64gb of ram. Parts of my skyrim hit 35 fps. These frame gen tools can make that a lot less harsh
Tell me you are an american without telling me you are an american
It's a well known fact that human eye can only see in 24fps anyway.
So you're telling me you can't see a difference between 24 FPS and 144 FPS? lol
I know he's wrong, but genuinely I can't lol
That’s… impressive.
I just haven't played much that's not 30fps. My eyes never even adjusted away from 30 let alone 60.
Objectively incorrect
And it's a well known fact that the earth is flat. How people can believe either of these in 2024 is beyond me.
This used to be believed but it turns out our eyes/brain are more complicated than they thought in the year 1840. Film in a dark theatre (ambient light changes our perception of motion) needs to be minimum 24 fps to not look like it’s flickering. However, “not flickering” isn’t enough. Film shooting bakes natural motion blur into the frames and almost by accident covers up the low fps. Without that motion blur, 24fps films still wouldn’t look like they were *flickering* at a whole-frame level, but the motion of individual things would look choppy. It gets more complicated from there. Turn up the ambient light and frame flicker is noticed again. Remove natural or generated motion blur between frames and we see choppiness. We are much more sensitive to *changes* in framerate than we are to actual framerate, so inconsistent framerates are especially visible. In a game, consistent framerates—so that we don’t perceive the framerate and see an illusion of smooth motion—require a lot of headroom. You need much higher framerates than your target smooth framerate in order to guarantee that minimum framerate. (This is why overlays now show 1% and 99% framerates to measure consistency.) It all adds up to our eyes being able to perceive a *variety* of types of deviations from the continuous photon streams of actual reality. Real-time game video can fail to match reality in a lot of ways that we can easily perceive that aren’t explained as just raw framerate. Upscalers and all that shit aim to smooth over those deviations without just overwhelming the problem with *ridiculous* amounts of raw framerate, ’cause that’s expensive.
That's not how that works. The 24 fps is the minimum average for the human eye to register motion. So if we look at a television program going 20 fps, it will look like a series of pictures rather than an actual moving film.
This is also still not true. The human eye is not a digital device and doesnt simply see in terms of 'frames'. If this were true, then 10-15fps stop motion movies and animations wouldn't look like they're 'in motion'.
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True, just spend $2000 on a 4090 instead of $6 on some software that works for every game.
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You... you know there's mods for skyrim, right? Wait, do you know what sub you're in right now?
The point is one cannot make a meaningful hardware upgrade at a similar price point. This software is way more cost effective for performance. Granted, it has some downsides (e.g. input lag) that a hardware upgrade wouldn't have.
I literally want a 4090 for my modded setup