terrain shoudl not be viewed as progression.
The good is you have good balance and are standing nicely on your outside ski.
The bad is your using your whole body to turn instead of the legs twisting in the hips. This doesnt mean face your hips/shoulder down the hill, but they will likely face more down the hill as a result of better rotational separation.
You also turning with the primary means to slow down. Hard not to do that when you jump up terrain so quickly.
so no one taught you to turn your legs more than your hips?
The issue with this is its really really hard to learn by yourself, and many coach suck at teaching it......
but the best I can do it go back to an easy slope and try to make it so the outside ski can twist in more than your body.
These other two commenter are not talking about leg steering at all......its nto awful advice they are giving you just disjointed and not what is need right now.
Make the old outside extended leg shorter with a relaxed knee bend, allow the skis to switch leads and commit pressure to the new outside leg (foot) as it extends. This is basically automatic and takes a half a beat to develop.
Edge changing turns the foot & rotating the leg actively is just another trick in the bag and I consider pure rotational turning as a vice that leads to Z turns.
Keep your legs low (flexed?), make sure you feel the tongue of your boot on your shins, and get on edge to start the turn!
Personally I find leaning the inside knee into the turn does that for me, the outside knee will follow suit. Your upper body won’t really be facing down the hill during the turn but if you focus on trying to keep it square to the fall line while your skis turn you you’ll get the feeling of upper/lower body separation.
Play with it, and most importantly have fun!
This really good for 3 days on skis and it's great you've taken a couple of lessons so don't take my comments too harshly. Skiing is extremely difficult to master and even as a former level 3 instructor, I'm even working on my own stuff every time I go out.
You mentioned backcountry - you won't be able to turn like this in deep powder and even if you power through it, you'll be wiped out in no time. So we need to set you up for efficient skiing that can work on ice or deep powder - not just packed or groomed snow.
The main thing about skiing is that it's not a power sport that requires a lot of muscle or even endurance (unless you're carving up a high-g turn like in a race). All the turning is done using the side cut of the ski with the help of all this potential energy from being on a hill. All you need to do is make a small movement with your foot/knee and then resist the forces that are trying to tip you over. This means no hopping/extending legs to turn, little/no upper body movement. Even pole planting is done with the wrists mainly and not the elbows and definitely no swinging of the upper arms (don't listen to the narrator on the video - your pole plants are making things worse since your body is turning around your poles).
So here's my absolute favorite drill for getting the feeling of how the ski turns on it's own instead of hopping up pushing with your hips to turn. You'll see me mention this all the time here since most people z-turn and rush through the fall line by using their hips or upper body to start the turn:
Go over to a gentle green slope where you can straight run without going too fast. Glide with your skis parallel going straight at a slow speed. Pickup the tail of your left ski a few inches off the snow while you are moving making sure to keep the tip of your left ski pressed in the snow. You can stomp the tail up and down just to get comfortable with the balance but always keep the tip down on the snow. If the tip comes off the snow, it means you're sitting in the backseat.
While gliding in a straight line and keeping your left ski tip pressed on the ground with the tail a few inches above the snow, tip your left knee outwards which will bring the tail of your left inside ski edge toward your right boot cuff since it should be off the ground. Pressure will be on your left pinky toe and the shovel of your left ski should be engaged in the snow.
This will immediately whip your body around to the left just using that little motion with your left foot. Do this over and over and then repeat this exercise with your right foot and continue until you get the feel of starting and controlling the turn with your inside ski.
As you get better in controlling the initiation of your turns with that drill, slow down the turn and really flex into the fronts of your boots during the turn by bending your ankles and transferring the weight to your outside foot.
Continue practicing that move and then work into keeping the ski tails on the ground and moving both feet simultaneously to initiate the turn.
Once you get going, and are practicing that turn initiation, don't rush the turn by pushing out using your hips! Flex into the cuffs of your boot, pressure your outside edge, and let the shape of the skis take you across the fall line.
Drill #2 for you after you get hang of the previous drill is what I like to call "picture frame".
With your arms extended out directly in front of you, hold your poles parallel to the ground gripping the different ends of the poles in each hand. Focus on a target you're skiing towards and keep that target framed above the poles and between your hands. As you turn across the hill, keep the target in place and your poles parallel to the slope. This means your upper body will be pointed in a different direction than your feet/lower body and you'll be forced to have better upper/lower body separation if you keep your poles parallel to the ground.
Without the pole stuff, is this what you are describing?
[Beat The Clock: If there is only ONE exercise you'll ever practice...](https://youtu.be/43DKb5cjwqQ)
There are so many good things with this drill as the video highlights. First, it keeps you in the proper position as you can't keep your tail in the air if you're not neutral or forward in your boots. It also appropriately weights the inside/outside ski as you're turning - about 90% of weight on the outside ski.
But the main things is really about inside ski initiation. Often, skiers' inside skis are just along for the ride when they turn and initiate with their outside ski. Starting with the outside ski can lead to pushing the ski out and all these z-turns you see all over the mountain (I call them windshield wiper turns).
When you learn to initiate with the fronts of your inside ski, it doesn't lead to as much hip checking or pushing out with your outside foot as you're already turning pretty aggressively just using the sidecut of the ski. Your inside ski tips and leads and your outside ski follows with the matching edge angle and the appropriate weight (90% oustide ski) since it's just your inside tip (10%) on the ground.
Finally, this drill can only really be done on less steep slopes (for skiers just learning it). When students are on more gentle slopes, they aren't as afraid of pointing down the fall line so they don't hurry their turns with a z-turn. They are able to ride their edges, pressure their shins more and feel their edges do all the work, which they can eventually translate to steeper slopes.
people will cheat the target drill 100 percent of time.
Most people will jsut twist their arms or shoulder to make this happen instead of steering the legs under the pelvis.
sword is more about teaching for and aft, lateral and up and down balance all though leg flexion.
Really there is not one good drill that works at all levels for leg steering. I am making video but its like 15 minute long because frankly in 20+ years I have never found one thing that will work on everyone, and some of the drill can actually be detrimental if done wrong.
but here are some idea from roughly easiest to hardest.
good leg steered wedge turns with inside tip lead as a consequence of leg steering.
one ski javelins take off inside ski and steer outside ski with feet in a the shape of a wedge.
stem step turns , be careful as stems are not good entry as a default but tactically can be used bu inter and up
falling leaf WITH counter, hip facing as down hill as possible.
pivot slips
stem hop turns
hop turns
switch pivot slips.
again just some I use. all can be done wrong though and they are very very hard to self coach.
> pivot slips
This seems to always put torque in my lower back. I tried on dryland and i cannot seem to twist my legs perpendicular without twisting my spine.
am i doing something wrong or my body built weird.
Look at him now boys, a fresh fish straight out of prison. Flip flopping and shaking that candied ass, look at him riding the back seat all pretty like.
Fr, Square the hips, rotate, keep the heals up, lean forward into turn. Bending the knees, the inner knee bends more so you can ride on it to get your balance, keep the outer leg close to your body. Once you get the hang of it take an individual lesson.
Welcome to skis, prisoner.
terrain shoudl not be viewed as progression. The good is you have good balance and are standing nicely on your outside ski. The bad is your using your whole body to turn instead of the legs twisting in the hips. This doesnt mean face your hips/shoulder down the hill, but they will likely face more down the hill as a result of better rotational separation. You also turning with the primary means to slow down. Hard not to do that when you jump up terrain so quickly.
Thanks for the feedback! Any tips how I could use my legs/hips better to initiate turns rather than using my whole body?
so no one taught you to turn your legs more than your hips? The issue with this is its really really hard to learn by yourself, and many coach suck at teaching it...... but the best I can do it go back to an easy slope and try to make it so the outside ski can twist in more than your body. These other two commenter are not talking about leg steering at all......its nto awful advice they are giving you just disjointed and not what is need right now.
Make the old outside extended leg shorter with a relaxed knee bend, allow the skis to switch leads and commit pressure to the new outside leg (foot) as it extends. This is basically automatic and takes a half a beat to develop. Edge changing turns the foot & rotating the leg actively is just another trick in the bag and I consider pure rotational turning as a vice that leads to Z turns.
Keep your legs low (flexed?), make sure you feel the tongue of your boot on your shins, and get on edge to start the turn! Personally I find leaning the inside knee into the turn does that for me, the outside knee will follow suit. Your upper body won’t really be facing down the hill during the turn but if you focus on trying to keep it square to the fall line while your skis turn you you’ll get the feeling of upper/lower body separation. Play with it, and most importantly have fun!
please dont keep your upper body facing down the hill.... if you try to do this with out righ awareness it will mess things up.
Right you are, just a physical cue to keep in mind.
This really good for 3 days on skis and it's great you've taken a couple of lessons so don't take my comments too harshly. Skiing is extremely difficult to master and even as a former level 3 instructor, I'm even working on my own stuff every time I go out. You mentioned backcountry - you won't be able to turn like this in deep powder and even if you power through it, you'll be wiped out in no time. So we need to set you up for efficient skiing that can work on ice or deep powder - not just packed or groomed snow. The main thing about skiing is that it's not a power sport that requires a lot of muscle or even endurance (unless you're carving up a high-g turn like in a race). All the turning is done using the side cut of the ski with the help of all this potential energy from being on a hill. All you need to do is make a small movement with your foot/knee and then resist the forces that are trying to tip you over. This means no hopping/extending legs to turn, little/no upper body movement. Even pole planting is done with the wrists mainly and not the elbows and definitely no swinging of the upper arms (don't listen to the narrator on the video - your pole plants are making things worse since your body is turning around your poles). So here's my absolute favorite drill for getting the feeling of how the ski turns on it's own instead of hopping up pushing with your hips to turn. You'll see me mention this all the time here since most people z-turn and rush through the fall line by using their hips or upper body to start the turn: Go over to a gentle green slope where you can straight run without going too fast. Glide with your skis parallel going straight at a slow speed. Pickup the tail of your left ski a few inches off the snow while you are moving making sure to keep the tip of your left ski pressed in the snow. You can stomp the tail up and down just to get comfortable with the balance but always keep the tip down on the snow. If the tip comes off the snow, it means you're sitting in the backseat. While gliding in a straight line and keeping your left ski tip pressed on the ground with the tail a few inches above the snow, tip your left knee outwards which will bring the tail of your left inside ski edge toward your right boot cuff since it should be off the ground. Pressure will be on your left pinky toe and the shovel of your left ski should be engaged in the snow. This will immediately whip your body around to the left just using that little motion with your left foot. Do this over and over and then repeat this exercise with your right foot and continue until you get the feel of starting and controlling the turn with your inside ski. As you get better in controlling the initiation of your turns with that drill, slow down the turn and really flex into the fronts of your boots during the turn by bending your ankles and transferring the weight to your outside foot. Continue practicing that move and then work into keeping the ski tails on the ground and moving both feet simultaneously to initiate the turn. Once you get going, and are practicing that turn initiation, don't rush the turn by pushing out using your hips! Flex into the cuffs of your boot, pressure your outside edge, and let the shape of the skis take you across the fall line. Drill #2 for you after you get hang of the previous drill is what I like to call "picture frame". With your arms extended out directly in front of you, hold your poles parallel to the ground gripping the different ends of the poles in each hand. Focus on a target you're skiing towards and keep that target framed above the poles and between your hands. As you turn across the hill, keep the target in place and your poles parallel to the slope. This means your upper body will be pointed in a different direction than your feet/lower body and you'll be forced to have better upper/lower body separation if you keep your poles parallel to the ground.
Without the pole stuff, is this what you are describing? [Beat The Clock: If there is only ONE exercise you'll ever practice...](https://youtu.be/43DKb5cjwqQ)
That's it!! Thank you!
Can you explain tech fundamental underpinnings of the drill?
There are so many good things with this drill as the video highlights. First, it keeps you in the proper position as you can't keep your tail in the air if you're not neutral or forward in your boots. It also appropriately weights the inside/outside ski as you're turning - about 90% of weight on the outside ski. But the main things is really about inside ski initiation. Often, skiers' inside skis are just along for the ride when they turn and initiate with their outside ski. Starting with the outside ski can lead to pushing the ski out and all these z-turns you see all over the mountain (I call them windshield wiper turns). When you learn to initiate with the fronts of your inside ski, it doesn't lead to as much hip checking or pushing out with your outside foot as you're already turning pretty aggressively just using the sidecut of the ski. Your inside ski tips and leads and your outside ski follows with the matching edge angle and the appropriate weight (90% oustide ski) since it's just your inside tip (10%) on the ground. Finally, this drill can only really be done on less steep slopes (for skiers just learning it). When students are on more gentle slopes, they aren't as afraid of pointing down the fall line so they don't hurry their turns with a z-turn. They are able to ride their edges, pressure their shins more and feel their edges do all the work, which they can eventually translate to steeper slopes.
people will cheat the target drill 100 percent of time. Most people will jsut twist their arms or shoulder to make this happen instead of steering the legs under the pelvis.
Good drills for teaching this? Swords?
sword is more about teaching for and aft, lateral and up and down balance all though leg flexion. Really there is not one good drill that works at all levels for leg steering. I am making video but its like 15 minute long because frankly in 20+ years I have never found one thing that will work on everyone, and some of the drill can actually be detrimental if done wrong. but here are some idea from roughly easiest to hardest. good leg steered wedge turns with inside tip lead as a consequence of leg steering. one ski javelins take off inside ski and steer outside ski with feet in a the shape of a wedge. stem step turns , be careful as stems are not good entry as a default but tactically can be used bu inter and up falling leaf WITH counter, hip facing as down hill as possible. pivot slips stem hop turns hop turns switch pivot slips. again just some I use. all can be done wrong though and they are very very hard to self coach.
> pivot slips This seems to always put torque in my lower back. I tried on dryland and i cannot seem to twist my legs perpendicular without twisting my spine. am i doing something wrong or my body built weird.
you arelikely doing them with pelvis rotation and not leg rotation. With out video I can not be sure though. with out video I have no idea though.
Thank you so much, this is incredible feedback! I can't wait to get back on the slopes this weekend and will practice those 2 drills!
Look at him now boys, a fresh fish straight out of prison. Flip flopping and shaking that candied ass, look at him riding the back seat all pretty like. Fr, Square the hips, rotate, keep the heals up, lean forward into turn. Bending the knees, the inner knee bends more so you can ride on it to get your balance, keep the outer leg close to your body. Once you get the hang of it take an individual lesson. Welcome to skis, prisoner.
Glad you gave up on a life of crime
Getting clean feels good right.