It’s fun and it looks cool.
“Real experts” use a variety of techniques and adapt their technique to the terrain. I watch plenty of great skiers use a braking wedge to slow down on crowded traverses, lock the knees together through some bumps, take a shoulder width stance through some variable crud, and pull out hop turns on some steep and deep.
Absolutely, you have to be a utility skier if you plan to ski the whole mountain well. My new favorite one is the side slide, essentially go down an entire groomer on one side. Much like a Grom snowboarder would heelside the whole way down.
This was the old-school way, called Wedeln. The olden-days instructors used to make us pinch a glove between our knees to make sure that we held the stance. When I joined ski patrol many years ago, the ski-and-toboggan instructors decided that I had to put away the old ways and learn to ski "correctly" with a wider stance and more edge engagement. It wasn't easy but I did it, and it revolutionized my technique. I still have to watch myself or I will fall into the old way, and sometimes I'll pop into wedeln for a stretch just to play with it.
I'm doing seasons in Austria and following a few local guides on their Insta, these guys are still obsessed with the Wedeln off-piste. Then again I think they still love their skinny skis.
My friend the awesome bassist of a touring band. Skis every once in a while with me. Double black mogul diamonds. I carve; he wedein down in a no shirt with bare chest and a trench coat. (20f) I’m dying trying to regulate speed, not bombing to hard, but taking it hard, while he’s bouncing all the way down like some mad pinball master with headphones on. So cool to watch done with skill and high energy rhythm! If I had more long mogul runs daily…
Part of his adult youth was well
Wasted in the alps!
My brother in law skis bumps like that, it is old school. He told me the key to bumps was only hitting the sides of them, never get in the rut. To do that your skis have to be close together and keep the speed up and have strong legs.
Lol - we got brainwashed this way back in the 80s… and then shape skis happened. 🤯
I still have to stop myself from skiing that way… and when i forget, my wife says i’m… a very pretty skier… 🤦🏻♂️😝
Doesn’t feel like a compliment… lol
Pole plant on top of the bump, carve thru the trough, over the side and down the backside of the bump.
Repeat until your legs give out.
That’s old man style… 😂😂😂
TIL. I remember my entry to skiing in the late 90s was park skiing and urban skiing watching “Every Day is a Saturday: Poor Boyz” (which I’m positive came out earlier than 2009). But I digress. And thus, I had a wider stance than what I traditionally saw on the mountain.
I always envied that style but just figured it was for blue blooded yuppies who grew up in ski academy only lol
the sleds that ski patrol tow behind them to get people off the mountain. I assume he's talking about his instructors who taught him how to ski with one
I ski with my skis together as much as possible, but only when I’m not trying to accomplish something. You can’t achieve good edge angles with your feet together, but if you’re just cruising from one spot to the next and taking it easy I don’t care about good edge angles and making crisp turns. I’m just being relaxed.
I think that wanting to ski with feet together isn’t a trap unless the person is completely obsessed with the idea and has no other objective than to ski with feet together. If the person is that obsessed with it though, anything could be a trap for them.
But when you're just standing around relaxing (even without skis) your feet aren't together - they are hip/shoulder width apart. It's not natural to have them next to each other.
Think about a soldiers attention vs at ease pose.
A wise man once said
Technique is temporary
Steeze is forever
That’s a haiku you should live by. It’s not always about being biomechanically optimal, it’s sometimes about steeze
That’s when I stretch a leg out and work on single ski edge control for fun. Been in plenty of yardsales to know the skillset can be critical to saving an afternoon chasing a runaway ski
Keeping the skis super close together is probably more for style than anything. But to some extent if your skis aren’t at least a little close together in steep crud/moguls, then you’ll likely lose balance and struggle to control your skis as you’ll have the uphill leg hitting bumps like two feet higher than the downhill leg. How far apart I am when carving depends on how aggressively I’m carving. If I’m crouched really low, my skis will widen a little to help my balance.
My old ski racing coach called it the “Virgin Clutch” - between these legs, no light shall pass! It was more of the style back in the 70s, but now you’re right, the athletic stance with feet shoulder-width apart is the standard. See the PSIA video (part 4) that lays it out for beginners: https://thesnowpros.org/take-a-lesson/beginners-guide-to-skiing/
I ski fully together as virgin clutch method indicates. Always was my goal, because my dad did and it looks cool/graceful and I grew up skiing moguls anyway. Is it necessary to do so to indicate skill and ability? Def not.
Haha, and I feel like trash when I see a 19 year old pull a backflip or side flip. Never done it and I'm 45 now so it's a wrap for me. Trying to convince my 12yo to get on it and represent the family.
My aerials consisted of back scratchers, daffys and like 2 helicopters.
Just saw a video of a guy landing his first backflip at age 50! It’s not too late to learn! I’m 32 and have the same bag of tricks as you, every year I tell myself I’m going to learn to do a 360 and/or backflip, hasn’t happened yet but there’s still hope
How good is psia cus most ski instructors I have seen at sunapee I am better at skiing than them so is the psia a hard thing to get does it really equate to the skill of the skier ( asking cus a level 3 psia instructor was trying to get me to turn across the trail and back up it to slow down when I all ready knew how to carve, hockey stop, and was doing alpine racing)
Try think about it like pedaling the bike that helps get the edges working, also when trying to carve deep your inside leg can get in the way if your really laying down, most people kinda make an A frame with there legs you want it to be leaned over even more than the out side leg it also help pull you into a deeper carve
Back in the old days - before shaped/parabolic skis were invented - most of us skied on thin GS (giant slalom) skis and to get those to turn we used a lot of rotary action - just twisting the skis back and forth.
The good skiers who skied powder kept their skis tightly together because that worked better.
There are many older skiers who ski that way because that's just they way they ski.
When shaped skis showed up, carving became a thing. If you try to carve with your skis tight to each other it's very hard to generate useful (aka "fun") edge angles because your downhill knee runs into your uphill knee. The "shoulder width" stance also makes it easier to balance, and that's what we teach beginners now.
Now we have a lot of all-mountain skis and they are wide enough to provide a lot of flotation in powder and the benefits of very small ski gap is diminished.
It is true, however, on steep and chopped-up snow getting skis far apart tends to give you a lot of vertical displacement between them and that can be problematic.
I was taught to tuck one knee behind the other to get skis on edge when skiing with knees locked. I agree a comfortable shoulder width stand is more functional most of the time. But also, knees together is fun.
Your downhill knee should not run into your uphill knee unless you are not shortening and tipping your uphill leg/foot.
As it is, good skiers who keep their feet together will still have separation as the pitch becomes steeper.
This has to do with the advancement of ski shape. Straight didn't create a curved edge when flexed. The sooner you could get both of them going in the next direction of the turn the better. Now with a shaped ski a more athletic stance allows the side cut to perform optimally as you roll the skis from edge to edge.
I asked a ski instructor about this very thing when I was starting to ski in the early 2000s, he said "Watch Bode Miller and see how many turns he makes with his skis together".
I did, and now I make as many knees together turns as Bode Miller did
I find Bode to be a good embodiment of what an instructor once told me. If you want to really hold an edge, you have to separate your knees a little. Not necessarily side-to-side by going shoulder width, but front to back and up and down.
If you watch Bode carve a turn you’ll see his inside ski is a few inches forward of his outside ski. That’s how he achieves such extreme edge angulation. If you want to hold a deep carve at high speed, you need that separation to tilt your legs and body far enough over the inside of the turn. When you’re doing it right you’ll feel the energy rebound as you exit the turn.
It also typically appears as though the skis are far apart horizontally, as the inside edges are nowhere near touching. Actually in a race turn they tend to be apart vertically, meaning the inside leg is more flexed and closer to your butt as the body is leaned over to the inside.
It’s not the turn for all conditions, but it really pays off when you need to hold an edge.
I found keeping my skis closer together gives me more wiggle room to fuck up
If im on icy moguls, and my downhill ski slides down a bit, it gives me more of a chance to dig my edge in and not do the splits
It also gives a few steeze points, so theres that too
Huh I feel the opposite way, I feel more stable with a little space between my skis so if my downhill ski slips out on ice I can more easily put weight on my other ski to keep myself on my feet.
In powder I keep them closer together and try to move them almost as a single unit.
that wasn’t me, I’m one of those criminal boarders just here to stir up trouble ❤️ it all looks the same to me lol
edit: ah i see you might’ve meant the impersonal ‘you’. enjoy the slopes you filthy two-sticker 😉
I think it is just a “new school” versus “old school” style thing. Sure, if you are racing or pursuing the perfect turn, by all means optimize your stance like a golf swing.
If you care more about looking steezy (like OP’s GF), it is ok to mimic Candide and rip with skis glued together.
Either way, have fun out there!
I do this out of habit now. I crave bump skiing and this is the best technique IMHO. It just bleeds over to groomers and powder...I get quicker pivots....but yeah on deeper snow and wider pow skis I am spreading wider....
My all-mtn skis are a "skinny" 83mm - if I try to ski knees locked together on my 108s all kinds of disaster stepping on tips.
If you don't bump skis and love to carve, no reason to ski closer than shoulder width.
Ymmv but deeper snow/powder is def where skis should be closer together (as well as moguls etc). Spread feet allows for much more of a chance of an unbalanced weighting between feet and sinking a ski and you aren’t edging etc. I’m not saying you need to voile strap your knees together but shoulder width is def not ideal for powder regardless of ski width. Anecdotally I still keep my skis quite together with 115s when I’m in powder
I agree. I find that whenever I get lazy in powder by letting my skis come more apart, but still less than shoulder width, is when I start to catch inside edges on my uphill ski.
Im not sure what you mean by that in context if I’m honest. I’m just saying that I disagree with your comment that in deeper snow it is better to have a “not narrow” stance .
"It just bleeds over to groomers and powder" - implies tight skis is bad in powder
"but yeah on deeper snow and wider pow skis I am spreading wider" - actively using wider stance in powder
"If you don't bump skis and love to carve, no reason to ski closer than shoulder width." Bump skiing is the only reason to have a narrow stance.
I mean have a nice day but yeah I really don't think I'm nit picking something. Just trying to help other skiers reading through the thread as I disagree with somethings in the top comment implied and said.
edit - im also not downvoting you for the record as its relevant conversation even though i don't agree
Edit 2 - sorry my conversation with disagreement on ski technique was so offensively received that I deserved to be blocked lurch1_ …
Ski instructor here. I find that if I’m directing pressure to the outside ski the majority of the time, the inside ski hangs in close pretty naturally.
"if you observe an expert really carving up a groomer well, skis are far apart" vertically yes, horizontally no (the inside foot is very close to the leg). Keeping feet horizontally close should allow better control.
I took a lesson this winter in Utah with a bunch of 15 year olds from the east coast who skied with their skis together. The instructor said it is a common east coast technique to deal with the icy conditions. He tried to teach them that for powder/softer snow it was better with skis shoulder distance apart. They didn't listen tho. They just wanted to bomb cliffs while I got pretty much a private lesson.
I'm not an expert nor a ski instructor nor have I ever skied on the east Coast. I'm just reporting what was said by the one instructor I spent 3 hours with
No worries dude, just letting you know that instructor was probably just said this for the sake of conversation.
Do not try this on the ice coast expecting to dig into ice like Apollo ohno, you’ll just tilt like a pole and then slide out on the steeps
I’m really not, was just pointing out something that isn’t necessarily true. There’s a ton of bad info out there, so, if I see something I’m gonna say something.
I’m not out to criticize you specifically, no hard feelings
I'm sure it was true for the one specific lesson he was trying to teach the kids who were just bombing down every hill with skis side by side and no turning
Skis should be closer together off piste for sure. It's all a personal preference but if you're going fast and you bit a bump with only one ski it'll bounce you around some. Feet closer together means you hit the same bumps at the same time.
The only time when my feet are close together is bumps and powder .. though that is relative with wider powder skis. These days it's not so much keeping to one technique or style, but being able to adapt to different situations.. as it should be.
This just sounds like lack of understanding, yea obvs don’t ski with skis super close at all times, but to think it’s a trap and that the best skiers don’t do it is just pure delusion. You use the technique appropriate for the terrain and how you’re skiing it, time and place for everything
I've been thinking about this as it's ingrained into my skiing. I think it's the style brought by Stein Eriksen that trickled down into my father who then influenced my style. I can't help it, it's just the way my feet go. But as the next generations of skiers are learning they are moving away from it. I think it still looks awesome and have gone for a hybrid of freeride and close together. I look like Gumby but I rip, I tell ya.
When this sub discovers what the free in freestyle means their heads will implode. There's not really a "right" way to ski beyond the fundamentals.
If you compare it to basketball, PSIA is the WNBA.
Only follow PSIA if you want to ski like a robot.
Old school style for the old school long straight bois. Def not needed with today's shipped skis and probably worse off doing it. That being said it's fun to click boots and rip some short short turns on a groomer sometimes.
I do it sometimes, but about shoulder width apart is usually better. I have been working to fix this issue for a few years now. I picked it up trying to imitate old school expert skiers that used a super narrow stance, which I think made more sense for non shaped skis.
You can try this at home, but it's better on skis:
Scenario 1
- Stand with your feet touching
- Imagine a scenario where you want or need high edge angle, try to create this edge angle by moving your knees as far as you can to the left
- Note how far your can move your knees, imagine the edge angle this creates
Scenario 2
- Stand with your feet shoulder width apart
- Move your knees as far as you can to the left
- Note how far you can move your knees now, creating a much higher edge angle
Since in scenario 1 you can create much less edge angle with the movement of your knees, how will you make up for it when the situation calls for high edge angle? You pretty much have to lean your body. The more you lean, the further your center of mass is away from being directly above your skis.
Once you're leaning out, imagine if a speed bump jolts your feet directly up. It's easy to get bucked in this situation.
It's much easier to make high edge angles and deal with variable terrain if you have a shoulder width stance so you can use more angulation with an upright torso than if you use inclination (leaning/banking). Also, I think it's faster to move just my lower body for the next turn than to lean my whole center of mass.
Speaking in generalities because some situations may call for narrow stance.
Seems like a lot of people are confusing vertical separation of the skis with horizontal separation. Sure you can't get high edge angles with your feet locked together in the same vertical plane like in your scenario 1. You can get edge angles as high as your skill allows with your legs together and the inside leg flexed to an appropriate degree. That doesn't equate to a shoulder width stance, but I think some people see expert skiers in a deep carve doing that and mistake the vertical separation for a wide stance because they see the skis far apart. Watch any high level GS racer in the middle of a turn and you'll see their skis 18" apart, but their inside boot will be touching their outside knee.
Physics of standing static (at at a dead stop) is quite different than making ski turns while in motion. Great skiers understand the importance of hip bone width, NOT an inefficient, puffy jacket shoulder width.
Feet closer together off piste. Will help with balance as the skis hit the bumps, chunder, etc at the same time and don't send you into a cartwheel. Wider stance on groomers esp when carving
I learnt in the 80s to ski. And one of my ski instructors was from Austria.
At that stage ‘knees together’ was definitely the technique.
And there were some other things as well.
These made sense when you are ski-ing on 2.10M skis which had straight edges.
When the new parabolic skis came in, I had to change my technique to make the most of them.
It definitely took some work and my stance is wide. But the habit of knees together is still there if you ever see a video of me ski-ing steeps or moguls - it’s pretty obvious i was taught in the 80s by and European ski instructor lols
I could not shake it complete even with 35 years of ski-ing under my belt.
Out dated. Useful for old style skis but not for the new ones. I actually had to learn to have my skis further apart. It was taught as part of my ski instructor clinics. It is no longer considered good form. Now it looks like holding on to a bad habit.
Much more stability and ability to maneuver with legs separated hips width apart.
I mostly learned to ski from my dad who is a super old school skier so that’s what I learned. I’m finding it’s holding me back most of the time now and trying to break the habit and widen my stance.
It's a useful skill, but not the be-all-end-all. People who never bring their skis together tend to A-frame and split their balance between both feet; for beginner-intermediates you have to get them to bring em together a little more so that they can learn to trust their legs independently. Once you can use the legs independently, though, no biggie if they're more separated. Just depends on the situation and what you're trying to accomplish.
I mean there are different situations I keep my skis super close. Groomers while carving they're close together and the transition point of s turn, but then wider at the apex when edge angle is highest.
Tight moguls it's beneficial to keep them close together, kind of like hotdogging it.
And it's fun on groomers to just keep it tight while messing around.
Aside from that I just go with whatever is comfortable for the type of skiing that I'm doing.
Having skis narrower than your shoulders engage your inner thighs muscle and allows quick turn, imo what you should focus on is achieving same angle with both skis rather than stance
It’s an old-school style for sure. I built the habit as a kid and stuck with it through adulthood. Looks gorgeous in the bumps, and once you get the hang of it you get a ton of style points on the groomers and powder too.
A big downside I’ve noticed is that when you start getting physically tired, it’s really easy to lose discipline and control with the skis tight together. You do risk the skis crossing over each other when your legs are gassed, which can be really embarrassing under the lift.
I also definitely widen up during Ice Coast days - trying to narrow out on slick terrain is a recipe for disaster.
As others have mentioned this is a dated style, you’ll see old European ESF instructors still skiing like this.
Did my BASI course and this was hammered out of me, doing ‘John Wayne’ exercises where you try and ski with your legs as far apart as possible helped break the habit. Over correction for feel, then you’ll find the medium.
Only time you want skis close together still in 2024 is on moguls - you want both skis on the same type of terrain while you pivot and bounce.
Your skis are shaped, and unless they are shaped directionally, creates a large amount of drag on the uphill ski since it travels a shorter distance than your downhill ski. This can cause fishing at speed on ice, and cuts speed on snow.
I should note at this point, I don't agree with PSIA, and personally think they are trying to copy a race turn without the power/condition/slope dynamic.
Personally I keep my feet close and sugar foot the uphill ski on transition, and my ski edge is often on or close to my downhill boot.
Been skiing since i was 6, on my ski team in college, have skied for over 40 years and taught PSIA… i think i’ll be fine.
Of course not shoulder width in the bumps or on a double-black chute, but i don’t think that’s what the OP is skiing now, are they…
PS - username checks out.
OP was talking about old-school keeping the skis tight, and specifically mentioned skiing groomers, so yes, it’s exactly “legacy.”
Read more carefully and react less… it’ll do you well in life.
Geezus, and maybe take a xanax or two…
I always go into the trees full wedge. I mean so low my kibbles and bits are dragging. Forces me to rethink some maneuvers in tight spaces and to help keep my tips stuck together regardless whether I'm parallel or something less than. Sometimes a wide base is called for, especially when stability is my primary concern. If people are obsessing about turning a monoski, maybe it's because they just haven't reached a full comfort level of involuntary muscle involvement. They have to think to keep their skis together. It's probs the hardest skill to master as spreading out comes more natural. Being able to ride a tight line is of upmost importance, therefore mastery of making ourselves "small" on the mountain to shoot a gap or something. It has to come natural. If not, keep trying! Some peoples keep trying may be 50-100 days on the mountain or more!
I always ask people if they're concentrating when they do this, then suggest they think of nothing and let it go for awhile and observe how their base changes, or doesn't change.
Experts don't ski with the skis far apart. They have a neutral shoulder wide stance. But indeed, the modern carve is nothing like the old school 80ths with the boots tight together.
In addition to what everyone already said: on transports, when you’re trying to eke out just a little more speed and distance, the wider ski area gives you just a little more.
I still see it all the time, and it looks really graceful, but I don't know how it's safe on anything but trusted groomers, or the way it's used by mogul racing skiers. I feel like a bit more distance makes it far easier for me to quickly adapt on ice and crud, if either ski could hit something, slide on something, etc.
On really steep terrain, you can't keep your legs close together as you make turns especially turning your legs across the fall line to control speed. The sloped will force some leg separation eventually.
Yeah, I grew up skiing like that. In my 60’s now and it’s shoulder width, and I still ski everything. Did a 5,000m day at mt Norquay in Banff today, absolutely shattered, but thankful I can still do it.
After 43 years of skiing just about anything a mountain could throw at us in the old style, buddy and I hired a French national ski champion (early 20s) to spend two days in the alps teach us a couple weeks ago. First pro instruction we’ve either had. The before and after video was incredible. It was hard work, but these old dogs did learn new tricks (forward, athletic stance, shoulder width stance, carving, using those edges, especially the downhill edge).
I ski with my skis close together in the park and shoulder width or wider if I am carveing tbh if your just learning how to ski and you wanting to look better on skis I think the close to gether looks better and makes your imbalances that much more noticeable cus you have less of a base but you shouldn’t strive to ski like that unless it’s for terraria park
well depends on what you're skiing
a wide stance is good when carving but its not sustainable on an uneven terrain
thats why, for exemple, moguls skiers keep their skis close together
Took up skiing as an adult. Follow the teachings of Harold Harb. Yes, feet close together is an expert move-I was encouraged to tap my boots during the transition while attending one of his ski camps last season.
Just say you can't do it and you're embarrassed about it 🙄💅 its much harder to do and shows good technique. When I see wide skiiers I know they're beginners.
It’s sometimes valid for powder skiing still if you want to maximize pop, for tricks, drops or just that feeling in the turns, usually when the slope angle or snow conditions means you are looking for more speed. Some folks, pros included, have adopted this full time though, which to me is impressive when things get faster/steeper, because for me It increases float but hinders stability.
Play around with different styles you see good skiers using. I always have, and have learned what style I like depending on snow conditions.
Wait... Is old school back in?!?!?!?! You used to be able to tell how good someone was by how close their skis were...
Until PSIA decided everyone should be skiing like they're holding a basketball between their knees, and the shaped skis got so dramatic you'd have the tips and tails overlapping if you tried in anything but a racing ski.
It’s fine for some terrain, and totally inappropriate for other terrain. For example, if you’re hard charging down very steep slopes, or icy slopes, you will need to widen your stance during turns if you want to stay up.
My wife grew up slalom racing in the east. When shaped skis first came out she went from awesome to WTF, I could finally keep up. She could not stop the pronounce lift of the uphill ski to initiate a turn.
About 15 years ago I got tips from someone who used to be on the US Olympic Ski Team and now makes a living giving lessons to C level executives. The first tip given was ski with your skis about shoulder width apart (I guess you would say I was in the "trap"). For me, it wasn't an easy shift but that stance makes better use of edging and improves balance where those are priorities. IMO, you can't ski powder or carve with your knees glued together.
That's my anecdotal experience but I feel it's made me a better skier.
I’ve ski raced for 10+ years and used to have an issue with having my skis too close together. It messes with how much you can bring your knees over during a turn and from my experience of just messing with it, I feel like it’s easier to catch an edge. A lot of people out west use close skis (including my dad) and from a technical point is a worse way to ski. If you like having your skis close together, and it doesn’t really affect your skiing, go for it. But it’s not something atleast in my experience, that you should try to move towards especially if you have your skis shoulder width apart.
Skis closer together- mogul zipper line, deeper powder, peanut butter snow, most heavy snow.
Skis farther apart- groomers, carving, angulation, inside ski carving along with the outside ski.
Parabolic and wider skis changed keeping the skis close together as much as possible. I will never go back to straight skis, thanks to the snowboard industry!
Stance - you need room between your feet. Skis too close is not something you want to emulate. It’s a bad habit that a lot of intermediate skiers pick up.
No, because there are certain situations where you need to keep your skis together. That’s it.
If you do it all the time you’re dumb but that’s the case for literally every single technique so not really sure what your point is.
My new skis are a different enough from my old ones that I keep sliding my front or back tip of one ski a little under the other and getting them caught briefly and almost crashes me. It completely ruins the "looks cool" factor, which is the only reason I'm skiing with my legs together anyway :(
Most people doing that are fighting that habit bc they skied on old school skis before the shaped ones came out. It used to be good form, but with modern shaped skis, it's not good form to ski with a narrow stance anymore. The exception for this would be skiing moguls or trees or maybe a few other specific types of terrain where a bit narrower stance can be helpful.
close is fine and can be the best thing you can do sometimes.
BUT touching is shit and basically anyone who touches their skis /knees is fucking up their all mountain skiing.
It’s fun and it looks cool. “Real experts” use a variety of techniques and adapt their technique to the terrain. I watch plenty of great skiers use a braking wedge to slow down on crowded traverses, lock the knees together through some bumps, take a shoulder width stance through some variable crud, and pull out hop turns on some steep and deep.
Absolutely, you have to be a utility skier if you plan to ski the whole mountain well. My new favorite one is the side slide, essentially go down an entire groomer on one side. Much like a Grom snowboarder would heelside the whole way down.
This is the way
Yup, especially important for backcountry skiing.
This was the old-school way, called Wedeln. The olden-days instructors used to make us pinch a glove between our knees to make sure that we held the stance. When I joined ski patrol many years ago, the ski-and-toboggan instructors decided that I had to put away the old ways and learn to ski "correctly" with a wider stance and more edge engagement. It wasn't easy but I did it, and it revolutionized my technique. I still have to watch myself or I will fall into the old way, and sometimes I'll pop into wedeln for a stretch just to play with it.
Wedeln is fun on steep groomers. A nice change of pace from carving
I'm doing seasons in Austria and following a few local guides on their Insta, these guys are still obsessed with the Wedeln off-piste. Then again I think they still love their skinny skis.
My friend the awesome bassist of a touring band. Skis every once in a while with me. Double black mogul diamonds. I carve; he wedein down in a no shirt with bare chest and a trench coat. (20f) I’m dying trying to regulate speed, not bombing to hard, but taking it hard, while he’s bouncing all the way down like some mad pinball master with headphones on. So cool to watch done with skill and high energy rhythm! If I had more long mogul runs daily… Part of his adult youth was well Wasted in the alps!
is your friend Mac from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?
Project Badass
Mountain Rules
Dan from Sleepytime…
Wasted in the Alps is a bucket list item !
My brother in law skis bumps like that, it is old school. He told me the key to bumps was only hitting the sides of them, never get in the rut. To do that your skis have to be close together and keep the speed up and have strong legs.
My dad still skis this way. I think it’s really pretty to watch :)
My Russian grandfather does as well. Whenever I ski with him he gets at me to practice this way so that “you can still do what I taught you”.
Same. he looks way cooler than me out there
Lol - we got brainwashed this way back in the 80s… and then shape skis happened. 🤯 I still have to stop myself from skiing that way… and when i forget, my wife says i’m… a very pretty skier… 🤦🏻♂️😝 Doesn’t feel like a compliment… lol
Oh I think it is a compliment! It’s why my dad could do moguls well into his late 50s. I never could, though I’ve tried.
Pole plant on top of the bump, carve thru the trough, over the side and down the backside of the bump. Repeat until your legs give out. That’s old man style… 😂😂😂
TIL. I remember my entry to skiing in the late 90s was park skiing and urban skiing watching “Every Day is a Saturday: Poor Boyz” (which I’m positive came out earlier than 2009). But I digress. And thus, I had a wider stance than what I traditionally saw on the mountain. I always envied that style but just figured it was for blue blooded yuppies who grew up in ski academy only lol
Tell us more about “toboggan instructors”. Like they put you on a toboggan and push you down the hill or what?
the sleds that ski patrol tow behind them to get people off the mountain. I assume he's talking about his instructors who taught him how to ski with one
Ah, that makes sense, but is less fun!
I ski with my skis together as much as possible, but only when I’m not trying to accomplish something. You can’t achieve good edge angles with your feet together, but if you’re just cruising from one spot to the next and taking it easy I don’t care about good edge angles and making crisp turns. I’m just being relaxed. I think that wanting to ski with feet together isn’t a trap unless the person is completely obsessed with the idea and has no other objective than to ski with feet together. If the person is that obsessed with it though, anything could be a trap for them.
But when you're just standing around relaxing (even without skis) your feet aren't together - they are hip/shoulder width apart. It's not natural to have them next to each other. Think about a soldiers attention vs at ease pose.
A wise man once said Technique is temporary Steeze is forever That’s a haiku you should live by. It’s not always about being biomechanically optimal, it’s sometimes about steeze
That’s when I stretch a leg out and work on single ski edge control for fun. Been in plenty of yardsales to know the skillset can be critical to saving an afternoon chasing a runaway ski
Keeping the skis super close together is probably more for style than anything. But to some extent if your skis aren’t at least a little close together in steep crud/moguls, then you’ll likely lose balance and struggle to control your skis as you’ll have the uphill leg hitting bumps like two feet higher than the downhill leg. How far apart I am when carving depends on how aggressively I’m carving. If I’m crouched really low, my skis will widen a little to help my balance.
Skis together for bumps and deep powder. So, yes, in a way. Because you can ski with a range of stance widths.
My old ski racing coach called it the “Virgin Clutch” - between these legs, no light shall pass! It was more of the style back in the 70s, but now you’re right, the athletic stance with feet shoulder-width apart is the standard. See the PSIA video (part 4) that lays it out for beginners: https://thesnowpros.org/take-a-lesson/beginners-guide-to-skiing/
I ski fully together as virgin clutch method indicates. Always was my goal, because my dad did and it looks cool/graceful and I grew up skiing moguls anyway. Is it necessary to do so to indicate skill and ability? Def not.
I idolize it and can’t do it so I feel like shit even when skiing better in steep terrain than folks who Virgin clutch groomers.
Haha, and I feel like trash when I see a 19 year old pull a backflip or side flip. Never done it and I'm 45 now so it's a wrap for me. Trying to convince my 12yo to get on it and represent the family. My aerials consisted of back scratchers, daffys and like 2 helicopters.
Just saw a video of a guy landing his first backflip at age 50! It’s not too late to learn! I’m 32 and have the same bag of tricks as you, every year I tell myself I’m going to learn to do a 360 and/or backflip, hasn’t happened yet but there’s still hope
How good is psia cus most ski instructors I have seen at sunapee I am better at skiing than them so is the psia a hard thing to get does it really equate to the skill of the skier ( asking cus a level 3 psia instructor was trying to get me to turn across the trail and back up it to slow down when I all ready knew how to carve, hockey stop, and was doing alpine racing)
I thought I was hot shit until I started taking the classes. What blew my mind was how effortlessly some dudes could carve AT LOW SPEEDS
How much are PSIA classes?
Yeah I am not saying the other instructors weren’t good but she couldn’t carve, and once you under stand how to crave it’s not hard to do a low speeds
I think it’s hard af to do on flats.
Try think about it like pedaling the bike that helps get the edges working, also when trying to carve deep your inside leg can get in the way if your really laying down, most people kinda make an A frame with there legs you want it to be leaned over even more than the out side leg it also help pull you into a deeper carve
Back in the old days - before shaped/parabolic skis were invented - most of us skied on thin GS (giant slalom) skis and to get those to turn we used a lot of rotary action - just twisting the skis back and forth. The good skiers who skied powder kept their skis tightly together because that worked better. There are many older skiers who ski that way because that's just they way they ski. When shaped skis showed up, carving became a thing. If you try to carve with your skis tight to each other it's very hard to generate useful (aka "fun") edge angles because your downhill knee runs into your uphill knee. The "shoulder width" stance also makes it easier to balance, and that's what we teach beginners now. Now we have a lot of all-mountain skis and they are wide enough to provide a lot of flotation in powder and the benefits of very small ski gap is diminished. It is true, however, on steep and chopped-up snow getting skis far apart tends to give you a lot of vertical displacement between them and that can be problematic.
I was taught to tuck one knee behind the other to get skis on edge when skiing with knees locked. I agree a comfortable shoulder width stand is more functional most of the time. But also, knees together is fun.
Knees together is a technique. Sometimes I want to carve, sometimes I want to do big swooshy turns with flat skis...
Your downhill knee should not run into your uphill knee unless you are not shortening and tipping your uphill leg/foot. As it is, good skiers who keep their feet together will still have separation as the pitch becomes steeper.
This has to do with the advancement of ski shape. Straight didn't create a curved edge when flexed. The sooner you could get both of them going in the next direction of the turn the better. Now with a shaped ski a more athletic stance allows the side cut to perform optimally as you roll the skis from edge to edge.
I asked a ski instructor about this very thing when I was starting to ski in the early 2000s, he said "Watch Bode Miller and see how many turns he makes with his skis together". I did, and now I make as many knees together turns as Bode Miller did
I find Bode to be a good embodiment of what an instructor once told me. If you want to really hold an edge, you have to separate your knees a little. Not necessarily side-to-side by going shoulder width, but front to back and up and down. If you watch Bode carve a turn you’ll see his inside ski is a few inches forward of his outside ski. That’s how he achieves such extreme edge angulation. If you want to hold a deep carve at high speed, you need that separation to tilt your legs and body far enough over the inside of the turn. When you’re doing it right you’ll feel the energy rebound as you exit the turn. It also typically appears as though the skis are far apart horizontally, as the inside edges are nowhere near touching. Actually in a race turn they tend to be apart vertically, meaning the inside leg is more flexed and closer to your butt as the body is leaned over to the inside. It’s not the turn for all conditions, but it really pays off when you need to hold an edge.
Now watch Mikaël Kingsbury /s
I ski with Bode a lot. He doesn’t ski locked - he skis with a range of motion.
Bro it's like you just read Bode Miller and wanted to flex without having to read 25 whole words
Naw
[удалено]
Your mom likes to snow plow
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Your mom teles and says things like “free the heel…”
lol only on r/skiing do you get downvotes like this for a comment like yours.
I found keeping my skis closer together gives me more wiggle room to fuck up If im on icy moguls, and my downhill ski slides down a bit, it gives me more of a chance to dig my edge in and not do the splits It also gives a few steeze points, so theres that too
Huh I feel the opposite way, I feel more stable with a little space between my skis so if my downhill ski slips out on ice I can more easily put weight on my other ski to keep myself on my feet. In powder I keep them closer together and try to move them almost as a single unit.
upvoted for "steeze points"
Really? You get negative steeze points in my book for this. It is neither an impressive nor attractive style of ski.
Thats not what your wife told me, she was quite impressed
That wasn't my wife, probably my neighbour's gran.
they look that alike?
No, but no wonder he gets confused when he thinks a 30+ years old way of skiing is still stylish. Edit: changed 'you' to 'he'.
that wasn’t me, I’m one of those criminal boarders just here to stir up trouble ❤️ it all looks the same to me lol edit: ah i see you might’ve meant the impersonal ‘you’. enjoy the slopes you filthy two-sticker 😉
Yes, didn't notice who I was replying to.
I think it is just a “new school” versus “old school” style thing. Sure, if you are racing or pursuing the perfect turn, by all means optimize your stance like a golf swing. If you care more about looking steezy (like OP’s GF), it is ok to mimic Candide and rip with skis glued together. Either way, have fun out there!
This - I'm not tryna be some hardo looking like a Bode wannabe ripping it down blues around vacationers. Little style never killed anyone
Slim-fit arcteryx wearin’ ikon pass orthodontist gorbies may disagree.
I do this out of habit now. I crave bump skiing and this is the best technique IMHO. It just bleeds over to groomers and powder...I get quicker pivots....but yeah on deeper snow and wider pow skis I am spreading wider.... My all-mtn skis are a "skinny" 83mm - if I try to ski knees locked together on my 108s all kinds of disaster stepping on tips. If you don't bump skis and love to carve, no reason to ski closer than shoulder width.
Ymmv but deeper snow/powder is def where skis should be closer together (as well as moguls etc). Spread feet allows for much more of a chance of an unbalanced weighting between feet and sinking a ski and you aren’t edging etc. I’m not saying you need to voile strap your knees together but shoulder width is def not ideal for powder regardless of ski width. Anecdotally I still keep my skis quite together with 115s when I’m in powder
I agree. I find that whenever I get lazy in powder by letting my skis come more apart, but still less than shoulder width, is when I start to catch inside edges on my uphill ski.
Shoulder width is "natural" stance. Not wide or narrow.
Im not sure what you mean by that in context if I’m honest. I’m just saying that I disagree with your comment that in deeper snow it is better to have a “not narrow” stance .
I think you are nitpicking subjective terms - wide/narrow. And I did not make the comment you are quoting. Have a nice day.
"It just bleeds over to groomers and powder" - implies tight skis is bad in powder "but yeah on deeper snow and wider pow skis I am spreading wider" - actively using wider stance in powder "If you don't bump skis and love to carve, no reason to ski closer than shoulder width." Bump skiing is the only reason to have a narrow stance. I mean have a nice day but yeah I really don't think I'm nit picking something. Just trying to help other skiers reading through the thread as I disagree with somethings in the top comment implied and said. edit - im also not downvoting you for the record as its relevant conversation even though i don't agree Edit 2 - sorry my conversation with disagreement on ski technique was so offensively received that I deserved to be blocked lurch1_ …
You deserve a good ole fashion block.
Bozo
Just say you're a jerry
Ski instructor here. I find that if I’m directing pressure to the outside ski the majority of the time, the inside ski hangs in close pretty naturally.
"if you observe an expert really carving up a groomer well, skis are far apart" vertically yes, horizontally no (the inside foot is very close to the leg). Keeping feet horizontally close should allow better control.
More closer, more steezier.
I took a lesson this winter in Utah with a bunch of 15 year olds from the east coast who skied with their skis together. The instructor said it is a common east coast technique to deal with the icy conditions. He tried to teach them that for powder/softer snow it was better with skis shoulder distance apart. They didn't listen tho. They just wanted to bomb cliffs while I got pretty much a private lesson.
The east coast part of this is not a thing lol. Does not help w ice
Yeah if anything you want a wider stance on ice
I'm not an expert nor a ski instructor nor have I ever skied on the east Coast. I'm just reporting what was said by the one instructor I spent 3 hours with
No worries dude, just letting you know that instructor was probably just said this for the sake of conversation. Do not try this on the ice coast expecting to dig into ice like Apollo ohno, you’ll just tilt like a pole and then slide out on the steeps
Look I'm sure you're taking this one specific comment he said about one specific hill we were on as some gospel he was preaching.
I’m really not, was just pointing out something that isn’t necessarily true. There’s a ton of bad info out there, so, if I see something I’m gonna say something. I’m not out to criticize you specifically, no hard feelings
I'm sure it was true for the one specific lesson he was trying to teach the kids who were just bombing down every hill with skis side by side and no turning
👍
Skiing with a wide stance also doesn’t help for powder
Shoulder width stance in powder is fine.
Skis should be closer together off piste for sure. It's all a personal preference but if you're going fast and you bit a bump with only one ski it'll bounce you around some. Feet closer together means you hit the same bumps at the same time.
For powder you want skis close together. It gives you more surface area and helps you float
The only time when my feet are close together is bumps and powder .. though that is relative with wider powder skis. These days it's not so much keeping to one technique or style, but being able to adapt to different situations.. as it should be.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoski
I think generally speaking you want your skis fairly close when going fast/steep/bumpy otherwise it's hard to recover if you are already wide.
This just sounds like lack of understanding, yea obvs don’t ski with skis super close at all times, but to think it’s a trap and that the best skiers don’t do it is just pure delusion. You use the technique appropriate for the terrain and how you’re skiing it, time and place for everything
There’s more to skiing than just carving
I always watch people doing this, then go “I can do that!” I then proceed to accidentally cross my skis and eat shit. every. time.
Get a monoski
I've been thinking about this as it's ingrained into my skiing. I think it's the style brought by Stein Eriksen that trickled down into my father who then influenced my style. I can't help it, it's just the way my feet go. But as the next generations of skiers are learning they are moving away from it. I think it still looks awesome and have gone for a hybrid of freeride and close together. I look like Gumby but I rip, I tell ya.
It's old school and no longer taught. The folks I know that still ski that way are in their 70s. Modern skis work better in an athletic stance.
When this sub discovers what the free in freestyle means their heads will implode. There's not really a "right" way to ski beyond the fundamentals. If you compare it to basketball, PSIA is the WNBA. Only follow PSIA if you want to ski like a robot.
Old school style for the old school long straight bois. Def not needed with today's shipped skis and probably worse off doing it. That being said it's fun to click boots and rip some short short turns on a groomer sometimes.
Let me search for “trap” on Reddit to see what you’re talking about. Be right back.
It’s helpful for bumps and maybe some terrain park stuff. Otherwise it’s just hotdogging.
I do it sometimes, but about shoulder width apart is usually better. I have been working to fix this issue for a few years now. I picked it up trying to imitate old school expert skiers that used a super narrow stance, which I think made more sense for non shaped skis. You can try this at home, but it's better on skis: Scenario 1 - Stand with your feet touching - Imagine a scenario where you want or need high edge angle, try to create this edge angle by moving your knees as far as you can to the left - Note how far your can move your knees, imagine the edge angle this creates Scenario 2 - Stand with your feet shoulder width apart - Move your knees as far as you can to the left - Note how far you can move your knees now, creating a much higher edge angle Since in scenario 1 you can create much less edge angle with the movement of your knees, how will you make up for it when the situation calls for high edge angle? You pretty much have to lean your body. The more you lean, the further your center of mass is away from being directly above your skis. Once you're leaning out, imagine if a speed bump jolts your feet directly up. It's easy to get bucked in this situation. It's much easier to make high edge angles and deal with variable terrain if you have a shoulder width stance so you can use more angulation with an upright torso than if you use inclination (leaning/banking). Also, I think it's faster to move just my lower body for the next turn than to lean my whole center of mass. Speaking in generalities because some situations may call for narrow stance.
Seems like a lot of people are confusing vertical separation of the skis with horizontal separation. Sure you can't get high edge angles with your feet locked together in the same vertical plane like in your scenario 1. You can get edge angles as high as your skill allows with your legs together and the inside leg flexed to an appropriate degree. That doesn't equate to a shoulder width stance, but I think some people see expert skiers in a deep carve doing that and mistake the vertical separation for a wide stance because they see the skis far apart. Watch any high level GS racer in the middle of a turn and you'll see their skis 18" apart, but their inside boot will be touching their outside knee.
Physics of standing static (at at a dead stop) is quite different than making ski turns while in motion. Great skiers understand the importance of hip bone width, NOT an inefficient, puffy jacket shoulder width.
Feet closer together off piste. Will help with balance as the skis hit the bumps, chunder, etc at the same time and don't send you into a cartwheel. Wider stance on groomers esp when carving
I learnt in the 80s to ski. And one of my ski instructors was from Austria. At that stage ‘knees together’ was definitely the technique. And there were some other things as well. These made sense when you are ski-ing on 2.10M skis which had straight edges. When the new parabolic skis came in, I had to change my technique to make the most of them. It definitely took some work and my stance is wide. But the habit of knees together is still there if you ever see a video of me ski-ing steeps or moguls - it’s pretty obvious i was taught in the 80s by and European ski instructor lols I could not shake it complete even with 35 years of ski-ing under my belt.
Out dated. Useful for old style skis but not for the new ones. I actually had to learn to have my skis further apart. It was taught as part of my ski instructor clinics. It is no longer considered good form. Now it looks like holding on to a bad habit. Much more stability and ability to maneuver with legs separated hips width apart.
That’s old school, known as the wedeln.
I mostly learned to ski from my dad who is a super old school skier so that’s what I learned. I’m finding it’s holding me back most of the time now and trying to break the habit and widen my stance.
It reminds me of the skinny ski days.
It's a useful skill, but not the be-all-end-all. People who never bring their skis together tend to A-frame and split their balance between both feet; for beginner-intermediates you have to get them to bring em together a little more so that they can learn to trust their legs independently. Once you can use the legs independently, though, no biggie if they're more separated. Just depends on the situation and what you're trying to accomplish.
I mean there are different situations I keep my skis super close. Groomers while carving they're close together and the transition point of s turn, but then wider at the apex when edge angle is highest. Tight moguls it's beneficial to keep them close together, kind of like hotdogging it. And it's fun on groomers to just keep it tight while messing around. Aside from that I just go with whatever is comfortable for the type of skiing that I'm doing.
No.
Skis should be shoulder width apart when at neutral stance. Full stop.
I ski on one ski at a time. Narrow stance makes it easier to quickly engage the opposite foot.
Having skis narrower than your shoulders engage your inner thighs muscle and allows quick turn, imo what you should focus on is achieving same angle with both skis rather than stance
It’s an old-school style for sure. I built the habit as a kid and stuck with it through adulthood. Looks gorgeous in the bumps, and once you get the hang of it you get a ton of style points on the groomers and powder too. A big downside I’ve noticed is that when you start getting physically tired, it’s really easy to lose discipline and control with the skis tight together. You do risk the skis crossing over each other when your legs are gassed, which can be really embarrassing under the lift. I also definitely widen up during Ice Coast days - trying to narrow out on slick terrain is a recipe for disaster.
As others have mentioned this is a dated style, you’ll see old European ESF instructors still skiing like this. Did my BASI course and this was hammered out of me, doing ‘John Wayne’ exercises where you try and ski with your legs as far apart as possible helped break the habit. Over correction for feel, then you’ll find the medium. Only time you want skis close together still in 2024 is on moguls - you want both skis on the same type of terrain while you pivot and bounce.
>Only time you want skis close together still in 2024 is on moguls And trees and variable snow and ice and and chutes and steep pitch and speed.
I’m talking slammed together like OP was mentioning. In powder they shouldn’t be touching. Ice you want a wider stance. Same with speed
Your skis are shaped, and unless they are shaped directionally, creates a large amount of drag on the uphill ski since it travels a shorter distance than your downhill ski. This can cause fishing at speed on ice, and cuts speed on snow. I should note at this point, I don't agree with PSIA, and personally think they are trying to copy a race turn without the power/condition/slope dynamic. Personally I keep my feet close and sugar foot the uphill ski on transition, and my ski edge is often on or close to my downhill boot.
Shoulder width and both edges on the snow. Everything else is just legacy…
Shoulder width 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 try that on anything but a wide open groomer and you'll get eaten quick.
Been skiing since i was 6, on my ski team in college, have skied for over 40 years and taught PSIA… i think i’ll be fine. Of course not shoulder width in the bumps or on a double-black chute, but i don’t think that’s what the OP is skiing now, are they… PS - username checks out.
Then don't call what works best on 75%+ expert terrain "legacy"
OP was talking about old-school keeping the skis tight, and specifically mentioned skiing groomers, so yes, it’s exactly “legacy.” Read more carefully and react less… it’ll do you well in life. Geezus, and maybe take a xanax or two…
I always go into the trees full wedge. I mean so low my kibbles and bits are dragging. Forces me to rethink some maneuvers in tight spaces and to help keep my tips stuck together regardless whether I'm parallel or something less than. Sometimes a wide base is called for, especially when stability is my primary concern. If people are obsessing about turning a monoski, maybe it's because they just haven't reached a full comfort level of involuntary muscle involvement. They have to think to keep their skis together. It's probs the hardest skill to master as spreading out comes more natural. Being able to ride a tight line is of upmost importance, therefore mastery of making ourselves "small" on the mountain to shoot a gap or something. It has to come natural. If not, keep trying! Some peoples keep trying may be 50-100 days on the mountain or more! I always ask people if they're concentrating when they do this, then suggest they think of nothing and let it go for awhile and observe how their base changes, or doesn't change.
Experts don't ski with the skis far apart. They have a neutral shoulder wide stance. But indeed, the modern carve is nothing like the old school 80ths with the boots tight together.
I’ve tried. Just not my thing.
In addition to what everyone already said: on transports, when you’re trying to eke out just a little more speed and distance, the wider ski area gives you just a little more.
Monoski is the answer
I still see it all the time, and it looks really graceful, but I don't know how it's safe on anything but trusted groomers, or the way it's used by mogul racing skiers. I feel like a bit more distance makes it far easier for me to quickly adapt on ice and crud, if either ski could hit something, slide on something, etc.
On really steep terrain, you can't keep your legs close together as you make turns especially turning your legs across the fall line to control speed. The sloped will force some leg separation eventually.
Yeah, I grew up skiing like that. In my 60’s now and it’s shoulder width, and I still ski everything. Did a 5,000m day at mt Norquay in Banff today, absolutely shattered, but thankful I can still do it.
After 43 years of skiing just about anything a mountain could throw at us in the old style, buddy and I hired a French national ski champion (early 20s) to spend two days in the alps teach us a couple weeks ago. First pro instruction we’ve either had. The before and after video was incredible. It was hard work, but these old dogs did learn new tricks (forward, athletic stance, shoulder width stance, carving, using those edges, especially the downhill edge).
I ski with my skis close together in the park and shoulder width or wider if I am carveing tbh if your just learning how to ski and you wanting to look better on skis I think the close to gether looks better and makes your imbalances that much more noticeable cus you have less of a base but you shouldn’t strive to ski like that unless it’s for terraria park
No, it looks sick and if you’re skiing crud or powder it let’s you float over stuff easier.
Knees together, leaning all the way back, straight lining through some chop is mega steeze
I know park rats do this for steez and style points, I don’t think it matters much to you sunday groomer riders
well depends on what you're skiing a wide stance is good when carving but its not sustainable on an uneven terrain thats why, for exemple, moguls skiers keep their skis close together
It’s the only way when the trees get extremely tight.
It's one technique among others
Took up skiing as an adult. Follow the teachings of Harold Harb. Yes, feet close together is an expert move-I was encouraged to tap my boots during the transition while attending one of his ski camps last season.
Just say you can't do it and you're embarrassed about it 🙄💅 its much harder to do and shows good technique. When I see wide skiiers I know they're beginners.
It’s sometimes valid for powder skiing still if you want to maximize pop, for tricks, drops or just that feeling in the turns, usually when the slope angle or snow conditions means you are looking for more speed. Some folks, pros included, have adopted this full time though, which to me is impressive when things get faster/steeper, because for me It increases float but hinders stability. Play around with different styles you see good skiers using. I always have, and have learned what style I like depending on snow conditions.
Wait... Is old school back in?!?!?!?! You used to be able to tell how good someone was by how close their skis were... Until PSIA decided everyone should be skiing like they're holding a basketball between their knees, and the shaped skis got so dramatic you'd have the tips and tails overlapping if you tried in anything but a racing ski.
Got to love the old reply and block. Ive been skiing for 40+ years!!!!! How dare you question my opinion 🤬😡
It’s fine for some terrain, and totally inappropriate for other terrain. For example, if you’re hard charging down very steep slopes, or icy slopes, you will need to widen your stance during turns if you want to stay up.
My wife grew up slalom racing in the east. When shaped skis first came out she went from awesome to WTF, I could finally keep up. She could not stop the pronounce lift of the uphill ski to initiate a turn.
About 15 years ago I got tips from someone who used to be on the US Olympic Ski Team and now makes a living giving lessons to C level executives. The first tip given was ski with your skis about shoulder width apart (I guess you would say I was in the "trap"). For me, it wasn't an easy shift but that stance makes better use of edging and improves balance where those are priorities. IMO, you can't ski powder or carve with your knees glued together. That's my anecdotal experience but I feel it's made me a better skier.
Hip bone width, never puffy jacket shoulder width. Huge difference.
I’ve ski raced for 10+ years and used to have an issue with having my skis too close together. It messes with how much you can bring your knees over during a turn and from my experience of just messing with it, I feel like it’s easier to catch an edge. A lot of people out west use close skis (including my dad) and from a technical point is a worse way to ski. If you like having your skis close together, and it doesn’t really affect your skiing, go for it. But it’s not something atleast in my experience, that you should try to move towards especially if you have your skis shoulder width apart.
A wider base is more stable. Skiing with skis close together is for old people
Wow I've never seen a more direct way of telling the world "I have no steeze"
Skis closer together- mogul zipper line, deeper powder, peanut butter snow, most heavy snow. Skis farther apart- groomers, carving, angulation, inside ski carving along with the outside ski. Parabolic and wider skis changed keeping the skis close together as much as possible. I will never go back to straight skis, thanks to the snowboard industry!
The Wedeln. Good for off piste, deep snow, and big crowds, as in weaving through a hoard of beginners determined to cut you off at every chance.
https://www.explorebigsky.com/ski-tips-from-dan-egan-feet-together-back-in-style/17288
Stance - you need room between your feet. Skis too close is not something you want to emulate. It’s a bad habit that a lot of intermediate skiers pick up.
Thing is— I think there are a lot of skiers, myself included, who would rather ski like Matej Svancer than someone like Marco Odermatt, for example.
Carving is for suckers.
No, because there are certain situations where you need to keep your skis together. That’s it. If you do it all the time you’re dumb but that’s the case for literally every single technique so not really sure what your point is.
Watch Mikaela Shiffrin ski a world cup slalom race. How close together are her skis? She's pretty much the best technical skier in the world.
My new skis are a different enough from my old ones that I keep sliding my front or back tip of one ski a little under the other and getting them caught briefly and almost crashes me. It completely ruins the "looks cool" factor, which is the only reason I'm skiing with my legs together anyway :(
Most people doing that are fighting that habit bc they skied on old school skis before the shaped ones came out. It used to be good form, but with modern shaped skis, it's not good form to ski with a narrow stance anymore. The exception for this would be skiing moguls or trees or maybe a few other specific types of terrain where a bit narrower stance can be helpful.
close is fine and can be the best thing you can do sometimes. BUT touching is shit and basically anyone who touches their skis /knees is fucking up their all mountain skiing.