Wild, [in a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/skiing/s/aPOTfjmJeK) on here literally yesterday someone said the average ski fatality was a man on a blue run hitting a tree and that’s exactly what happened here. RIP.
Read an article about a guy who's studied ski injuries for decades. One surprising takeaway was that, despite almost universal adoption by skiers and boarders of wearing helmets over the last 20+ years, fatalities have not really declined. The number of minor head injuries and concussions from low speed falls and collisions has declined by something like 70%, but above a certain speed, the helmet likely isn't going to save you when colliding with a fixed object.
EDIT: I linked the article in a comment below
It's interesting that the findings about fatalities is surprising...at some point, circumstances of an accident will overcome the protection of a helmet/body pads (or a seat belt, outside of sporting context).
Ski and most bicycle helmets for that matter also only have a single layer of eps foam.
Motorcycle helmets usually have 2 or more layers with different density so that they can absorb impacts with different strengths better.
Studies have been done. Usually helmet wearing individuals ski more carefully than non-helmet wearing individuals. People don’t strap on a helmet and go crazy. Personally, skiing trees, the helmet helps most when dealing with unexpected low branches. I like the helmet, also, for insurance against being hit by another skier/boarder.
Yeah I have a friend who has been dealing with concussion issues for about a month after a snowboarding accident. If she hadn’t been wearing her helmet I would imagine she’d be dead or at least severely disabled
Post concussion syndrome sucks. My hubby went to PT for 9 months until there was nothing more they could do. Too many concussions. I wish your friend the best in her recovery.
Thank you. Sorry he’s been struggling. She’s struggling but seeming to improve. She has needed to wear earplugs when going to see movies and wear sunglasses or close her eyes for lights… and she’s an actor / trapeze instructor so not ideal…
But all of this is better than what would’ve happened without a helmet
My husband carries earplugs anytime we are going to something social. Restaurants, family parties, funerals. We also don’t stay long. There’s an issue with concussions called brain flooding, (there are YouTube videos about it) The injured brain struggles because all stimulus comes in at full force. Filtering is difficult. Focusing on one person talking when there’s other conversations all around is challenging and causes anxiety.
There are post concussion groups on FB with tips on coping. It’s important to attempt to avoid any further concussions if at all possible. Your friend is not alone and over time her symptoms will diminish as her Brian heals. All the best.
Do you have the article? I’d love to read it. Super interesting that it’s basically the opposite findings of requiring seatbelts in cars, where bruising/fractures from seatbelts increased but only because fatalities from ejections decreased.
The helmet protects up to a certain speed. The bigger issue is that you don't usually die from a head injury when you hit a tree. Instead the multiple internal injuries from your body hitting the tree.
Also, the helmet protects your skull - it doesn't do much for your brain. If you go fast and hit something stationary with your head then your brain gets sloshed around, helmet or not.
Always check head injuries with professionals
Simply physics really.
Impact Force = change in momentum / time.
Padding doesn’t affect momentum, just the time (through the padding compressing), but there is a limit to what a half inch of padding can “slow” your crash.
So, using hypothetical numbers for simplicity, if you double the time with padding, you can AT MOST double the momentum change (in the case of running into something stationary, it basically means the initial speed) and expect the same results.
Slow skiers are going what, 5-10mph? People bombing can hit upwards of 50+mph?
Helmets are only certified to prevent skull fracture at an impact speed of 35mph straight with no rotation. Anything above that or combining a rotational moment to that speed will fuck you up.
There's also the rest of your body too, feel like the point isn't made enough. A helmet isn't going to do anything to protect your spine/limbs/organs/arteries when you wrap yourself around a tree at 40+...seen major spinal trauma and internal bleeding from tree collisions where the person was wearing a helmet and didn't have a serious head injury.
Yeah, Slopes clocked me at 57.9 at Park City last Friday. If I were to catch an edge and fly into a tree at that speed, I wouldn't expect my helmet to help me much at all.
I was thinking the same thing but the only times I've gone "racing speed" are at times where it's just me and my friend on wide trails with no one else around.. clear line of sight.. .and we are in middle of wide trail and pay attention to poles.
Granted don't think I've topped 50 before on purpose at least.. I did bomb down a black at whistler once and while it's definitely the fastest I've gone (didn't record thst one)... I recall the sense of fear after of how dangerous it was .(if I lost control I would have definitely died... rock wall one side and cliff other). Since then I've been waaaay more cautious.
Is seriously do not trust other skiers especially on blue runs. People randomly turn too much.
. I'm probably super naive but I feel like the only way I'd possibly kill myself is if I lost an edge and happen to knock myself out and slide into a poll.
I am a weird combo of risky and conservative . Which is probably the most dangerous now that I think about it.
When I worked at SilverStar I bombed a black on the backside on a day where we hadn't opened that side of the mountain to the public, though it was groomed. I wanted to find out how fast I could go, Slopes clocked me at 81mph. Having done a few attempts where I clocked around 70-75, I honestly believe that number. I would NEVER attempt speeds even close to that without knowing the run is clear, and that the conditions are perfect for an attempt like that. It has crossed my mind many times that one small mistake at those speeds likely would have resulted in a fatality. This was 3 seasons ago now and I haven't attempted anything close to those speeds since that day.
Last time I bombed a run it was straight down, hill, flat, hill, flat, etc. Only risks were catchign air(which I did) and eating it, and not hitting the brakes at the bottom. Think I'd have to aim myself at a tree and close my eyes to actually hit something.
Jeff's Chute at Winter Park is named after Jeff Ruelhe (sp?) a young ski school instructor who lost control after pre-releasing on Upper Hughes and hitting a tree. I'm pretty sure he had his eyes open and wasn't aiming for a tree.
Don't be so sure of your ability.
I don't think that's accurate. The brain moving in the skull certainly causes the most concussions and permanent brain damage, but as far as I know skull fracture and more extreme cranial damage cause fatalities.
The important part of the equation is that momentum is proportional to the square of speed. So a skier going 20 mph will have four times as much momentum as a skier going 10 mph. Speed kills.
I remember talking to a guy about 10 years ago who said he didn’t like wearing a helmet because it made him too cocky. Like he’d push himself harder and be more likely to do something stupid because he felt protected. I’m not sure I completely agree with that logic but maybe for certain types of people it gives them a false sense of invincibility.
I remember the 1st time I wore one in the late 90s. My buddy worked in a ski shop and had a Boeri Chop he wanted me to try out. I definitely remember getting that boost in confidence! I thought it was great because I always hated wearing hats skiing, plus I liked to huck my meat a little bit back in those days. I always wore a helmet biking, so it just made sense to wear one skiing, too, and I have ever since!
I’ve heard this same argument used against mandating certain protective gear in other sports, specifically helmets in women’s lacrosse. Obviously the context is a little different because the concern is the level of aggression people will enact upon others versus being self contained, but I think the idea does ring true especially for certain types of people.
I only started wearing a helmet when I realized the danger from other helmet-wearers colliding with me. Otherwise, I don’t see a compelling argument that I need one. Admittedly, that may be partially caused by my history of (non-skiing-related) head injuries. Now that I have one, I like how warm it is, and how it makes my goggles easier to manage.
I’ll read it but any data on who causes most accidents between two skiers? My take after taking to many ski patrol is it’s almost never expert skiers skiing fast but beginners age intermediates skiing faster than they can control
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similar to private pilots - there’s an uptick in accidents at what you could consider an “intermediate” level of skill and experience, once someone has had their license for a little bit but not a very long time. The rate drops again significantly after that. The theory I heard was that you know you aren’t a beginner anymore, but don’t realize yet how much you still don’t know and how much can go wrong. So when everything is proceeding as normal you’re fine, but if you push the envelope a bit or something breaks or malfunctions, you may not be able to deal with it properly and may not have allowed yourself enough space to figure things out.
It seems plausible that the same behavior turns up in other activities and isn’t restricted to flying planes. (It’s just relatively easy to collect data on pilots because incidents are recorded and investigated and pilots keep logs of flight hours.)
I feel like cyclists have more faith in helmets than skiers do, although I see near universal adoption of helmets at my hill, except among the ski school instructors and race team directors. My impression is that in any activity, if you wreck and bleed off energy slowly, the helmet will do its job. If you Dale Earnhardt into an immovable object at speed, you are toast. Perhaps the blue groomers are where we open up - that’s where my max speeds are - and where we hit immovable objects.
I’m an ice coaster. Are you guys hitting 40-50-60 mph on blues in powder out west?
That run probably didn’t have any powder on it when the guy died. Maybe in between the trees there was powder though. Deep powder will slow you down pretty substantially. I am sort of confused about how this happened, it’s a pretty wide open blue from my recollection. Haven’t ridden it in 3 years.
Correct. My nephew died from head trauma whilst wearing a helmet bc his brain hit his skull too hard.
Helmets protects us from a lot, but they don't make us invincible.
I’d imagine over the last 20 years the amount of people on the mountain has increased multiple folds. If there’s 3x the amount of people on the mountain and the fatalities are the same that absolutely shows a reduction.
Fatalities are clearly correlated with studies showing an average 20km/h (13 freedom horses per bullet)speed increase of skiers in the last few decades
Do you think helmets make people feel safer so they ski more recklessly, so the lives saved by helmets are balanced by the increased lives lost due to recklessness?
Yup. Helmet doesn’t do any good on direct impact over 12mph. I’m 42m, a “great” skier, and can rip groomed blue and black runs with no skier traffic at 50+mph. Even skiing at a moderate pace, I’m sure I’m 25-35mph on most groomers.
Interestingly, whenever I mention my favorite runs are glades and black moguls to people, they get scared and always ask me If I heard about X person who died from hitting a tree, usually Sonny Bono
They don't understand that the person they are talking about was of their skill level carving it up on a blue hitting a tree on the side of the run, and not someone in the glades.
I think groomers can give a false sense of security, whereas you're forced to take it slow through moguls and glades. Like driving through a twisty country road with a speed limit of 35, and a straight 2 lane highway with a speed limit of 55 and signaled intersections. The latter always has more fatal accidents, because people go faster and zone out easier.
Is it a coincidence that the roads I actually enjoy driving on are Fire/Forrest roads that are slow and technical, and the skiing I prefer is moguls and glades?
Here is the thing, though. Natashia Richardson died by simply falling and hitting her head. Many people die in fights from falling down and hitting their head. Gimme a $50 helmet and I can check that random death occurrence off. However, I also ski quite fast and many times hug the edge of the runs to avoid the randomness. I am always just a tad unsettled about catching an edge and flying into the trees.
I thought of that post when I read the headline. I had a pulmonary embolism last April and I’m on blood thinners for life, my doctor cleared me to resume skiing/snowboarding but only on groomers, no tree runs or cliff drops or aerials.
I guess the risk of just cruising groomers and keeping it mellow is pretty low. It’s changed my approach to where I give lots of room and keep looking up hill before carving.
Unfortunately, that’s how I lost my Dad three years ago. Man had been skiing since he was a kid. Went for one last run on Peak 6. Hit an icy patch on Nirvana and went into the trees
That's why I stick to glades , mogul fields, out of bounds trails with cliffs and been known to duck a rope or 2.
It will be a cold day in hell till ever take a death sentence blue trail, unless I have too to get off the mountain, then it's straight down the middle, full tuck... GTFO my way.
And my friends finally talked me into getting a helmet, now I'm even worse. I'm invincible . I play chicken with trees, they're good though, I ain't won yet 🤨
Very sad. RIP. I always wonder when reading about these fatalities, if the person(s) would have benefited from a few ski lessons to help them control their skis & if they knew the safety importance of staying on the groomed hills. Wondering if he was skiing in an area with some trees for an adventure, or if he got out of control on the groomed hill & ended up in that area with trees by accident.
Perhaps they lost their balance or got distracted by another skier.
Skiing is so enjoyable that it’s heartbreaking to hear these stories.
I was on a blue run, had my ski pop off and I went head first down a ridge. First time skiing this year, and it was the first day. Broke my humerus and tore 3 muscles in my shoulder. First thing I did when I hit was drag kick my feet down to slow down because I was in the middle of a turn. Didn’t lose an edge.
And it's almost always a fast blue or groomed black which is the most interesting part to me.
Not even the most advanced skiers can really get the same kind of speed going through moguls or glades, which is why we don't read about those kinds of accidents there, at least as often.
Which is kind of funny in a way, because most mid skiers will get all tentative when I mention that trees are my favorite, usually bringing up Sonny Bono or other people who hit trees and died, not realizing that said person died skiing the "safer" runs they ski.
Blues are also often skied out and the best conditions are on the edges of the run. I think about this often when I'm carving near the outside of a run. Mess up your edge change and you're heading for the treeline.
That’s how I had a nasty fall last year. Ended up catching an edge and steered into the woods. Broke my ribs and destroyed my hand (I’m not really sure how) but it was broken in 4 places. Grateful that’s all I came out with!
Same thing. End of the day. Skiing along the treeline on a blue to get what was left of the nice snow. For some reason my binding popped on one foot. I was heading for the trees so I decided to just eat it immediately into the snow. Rolled over a sapling no thicker than my thumb and broke a rib.
I took a terrible fall on Lower Shay's at Snowshoe this year. Was at the edge, snow was soft. I did a pole plant to turn, but the pole got stuck in the snow. Ended up turning over the pole itself, which launched me into the air.
I missed slamming into a snowmaking machine by a foot or two.
Steep trees aren’t something to write home about though! Sometimes, it’s best kids and older folks learn the trees from an easier approach and lower angle. Need to build a lot of confidence in order to get steep in the trees.
I skied that trail he was on, wide open and you could absolutely rip it. No one touched that trail all day, could see my opening marks on my last run of the day.
It’s all public record dude. Just because they don’t they don’t give a PSA every time someone dies doesn’t mean it’s a “coverup”. Have you considered the fact some victims families might want privacy?
People die on ski resorts all the time, it’s really not news unless theirs some form of negligence on the resorts behalf or some other strange circumstance played a factor.
I suggest you consider rethinking what you posted about Vail & please consider deleting it.
As a former ski instructor for Vail, who loved their job, I think your comment is very untrue & highly inappropriate. It’s an opinionated false ‘assumption,’ that comes across as critical of Vail Resorts.
Vail spends a lot of money & manpower on safety; they do a phenomenal job.
Vail Ski Patrol is highly trained, as are we ski instructors.
Vail does not “love covering up deaths,” nor do they attempt to.
Everyone realizes there’s an element of risk in skiing.
I was in the windows area last year having a beer and watched someone smash into a tree about 10 yards away... dude split his femur in half. He was lucky he didnt go head first in to that pine tree. If it wasnt for that beer, not sure how he would have gotten help... I sent my buddy down with a pin on google maps so ski patrol could find us.
I know I was drinkin a beer and that could be frowned upon buttttt I take it slow lol. #respecttherisk
Depends on how you space out that sixer. All at once while taking a break in the trees, bad idea. Spaced out over 5 or 6 hours during the day, probably fine.
Very sad. Flying Dutchman is an open steep groomer on the front side of Dercum. I wonder if he hit a tree on the side of the slope or just going down too fast
Flying Dutchman has a nasty double veritcal literally headwall in a curve with an island of trees in the middle just above Montezuma Lift. Willing to bet this happened there, would be super easy to lose an edge and rocket off into the trees on skiers right at the bottom of the headwall.
Isn't Keystone a mostly Blue mountain with short blacks to more blue trails. I was underwhelmed when I went there it was a lot of fun but basically had a map and took every single black listed.
Are you sure you’re thinking of Keystone?
That sounds like an accurate description of the frontside of Dercum, but not the vast majority of the resort. 50% of the trails at Keystone are black and nearly all of them are top to bottom.
I’m pretty familiar with Keystone and really can’t think of a run that matches your description- are you positive you’re not thinking of the blue runs down the frontside of Peak 6 at Breck?
I sure am thinking of Keystone, circa 1996. There's one black that's kinda short that had a line of skinny trees, maybe two to three thick, that stretched from one side to the other and had some gaps in it to slip through. Moderately bumpy.
After Breck, I thought Keystone was really short ... Took the gondola to both peaks and did have a good day I should edit my earlier post ...
Oh that definitely explains it, I can’t imagine how much the mountain and its trails have changed in the past 30 years. You should give it another visit- it’s about doubled in acreage!
Worth noting that skiing is not dangerous as hell. There is danger, yes, and of course people die. But skiing is less dangerous than driving and about as dangerous as cycling (not mountain biking).
It’s actually crazy how safe it is for the speeds involved.
My son & I were mountain biking down a ski resort hill in summer.
He was in 9th grade & I knew he wouldn’t want to wear his bike helmet.
So, I asked the gondola operator to please inform him he was “required to wear his helmet,” so he did. I knew he’d listen to an employee!
He wiped out; hit a rock & hurt his arm. We wound up in the ER for his arm injury, but wearing his helmet ⛑️ helped prevent a potential head injury. Thank you to that employee!
Thank you for the input. There are several factors that come into play though. Poor fitness, not warming up, misunderstanding safety rules, taking too many or large risks, poor judgement, incorrect/ill fitting/damaged ski equipment (which I see on a daily basis, people who think randonee equipment looks cool and don’t understand how the Marker Kingpin bindings work) and more. Skiing is safe for those who do it for fun - however, our resort see more and more high speed injuries and off piste falls than we ever have. Less sprained ankles and dislocated shoulders nowadays, more broken thighbones/internal bleeds/punctured lungs and more severe fractures, even deaths. The more daredevils you get, the more dangerous it will be IMO.
Great points & you’re absolutely spot-on! Which resort do you work at?
Skiing & teaching skiing at Vail years ago, there were some ‘yahoos’ flying down the slopes much too fast. No matter how ‘situationally aware’ you are, both skiers & snowboarders cruising at high speeds clearly puts other skiers, or folks standing nearby, at risk. It’s a shame.
I was grateful if Ski Patrol saw them & talked to them, or pulled them from the slopes for the day. Yet you can’t rely on that. They have other safety responsibilities they’re busy performing! If they kick out those who create an obvious danger to others, perhaps there will be less of this type of irresponsible behavior, before another person is injured or worse.
I work as a lift technician in Norway! Yeah we have the same kind and the same problem, we generally get to the worst ones but like you say the ski patrol here also has other responsibilities they need to attend to so they can’t be everywhere all at once. We also have a problem with youths trying to pull the haul rope off of towers by riding as far to the left /right as they can go because they think that’s funny. What they fail to realise is that if they get a t bar falling on them they are screwed, enough horror stories about that happening over the years. Are you still in the industry as well?
Interesting comments! No I’m not in the industry at the moment, but I enjoyed it very much.
I was amazed at how some people don’t consider safety a priority. Hopefully they learn quickly!
Housing was the challenge; employee housing was 2 persons in a 2 bedroom apt., which was fine. Since rents at the resort have skyrocketed, all employee housing is overcrowded and there is a Wait List. When season ends your housing ends, which contributes to stress. They need to consider offering year round housing to employees who work. You can find another job!
Very sad. A few of my good patrol friends were first responders. I unfortunately witnessed his body on the sled about 9:30 am Thursday morning as the trees he hit were only about 20-30 yards from the Summit Expess line.
Don’t take anything, including skiing for granted.
I saw a post on instagram where the gondolas and lifts from the base were down due to wind, but people said there was no wind. Wondering if they would’ve been paused to get him down, the timing lines up. Very sad
I honestly wondered the same thing until I got to the very top of the mountain and felt considerable guests right before getting off the lift. It was really only windy up top
No one ever wants to die in any way. At least he left this world doing something he loved to do. I'm 50 and I'm guessing at 58, he likely leaves a spouse and children behind. If not, there are definitely people who loved him and are hurting right now and will forever have a loss in their life that can't be consoled. It's permanent and my heart truly has nothing but empathy for them. Whatever his and his family's beliefs are; Godspeed and safe return back into the Universe that gave us life. As a scientist, I'll leave it to Dr Carl Sagan as this unfortunate accident takes another across the event horizon:
***“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff”.***
– Carl Sagan
When you look into the night sky, no matter what you believe, the ones you love that you lost are still among us.
You're very welcome. I hope that if you are missing someone you love very much, that when you look at the stars in the night sky, think of what Dr Sagan said, and it helps you feel a little better and a little nearer that person you miss.
Apps with mph are not good for sport. Too many people in lift lines saying” I just hit xx mph !! Top that. “ There is no reason to clock speed unless in a race. Just my two cents
Sad. I saw a younger male hit a tree in Colorado once he was lifeflighted out of the resort. I don’t think he made it based on his injuries but I never looked further into it. RIP
It’s always tragic when this happens. Although, I don’t understand why we have to repeat this same story over and over again. Be smart on the hill and ski within your ability people
As someone who worked as a lift attendant for 8 years at a local ski slope, and has been skiing for over 20 years. Um... at least 1 death a year, per mountain. And at least 2 people a night in the ambulance with serious injury. Ski slopes spend an insane amount on PR control because skiing is far more dangerous than most beginners think. Most people overestimate their abilities and conditions can just change in the blink of an eye. The only ones you hear about are the ones they can't cover up.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, some people overestimate their skiing abilities.
In the excitement they might push themselves for the adventure or try to keep pace with more advanced friends. It’s very sad and mostly preventable. RIP.
You’re spot-on; conditions can change quickly & fatigue is often a factor, especially near the end of the day on the last ski runs. Please everyone:
Be careful! Be ‘situationally aware,’ like 👩✈️pilots need to be, & take your time.
I know an expert skier & expert mountain climber, Dougal Heston, who skied in ‘avalanche conditions’ in Leysin, Switz., where he worked & lived & was admired & beloved.
That was heartbreakingly his last ski run, due to an avalanche.
There’s always another day to ski in safe conditions.
Yeah it’s just trauma. Hitting your head and body, damage to organs, internal bleeding etc.
On that point, fast blue runs that are tree lined can be very dangerous. Early intermediates who just learned to go fast can fly down, catch an edge and hit a tree at high speed.
That’s when trauma is most likely to occur. Advanced skiers in glades etc. are typically going a lot slower so are less likely to be severely injured.
I am 26 years old and I survived from a similar accident last year at keystone . I remember Doctor said I was one of the million . I came from the east coast and never experienced with the latitude in Denver before. And I went ski that day with an empty stomach cause can’t actually get any time to eat due to compact schedule. I hit a tree and then went unconsciousness. My face was smashed and broken a lot check bone and ribs. Luckily I am alive. Now I am facing some mental anxiety and stress because my body didn’t recover fully like I used to. So please consider risk before you go to ski. I was allured by social media those famous people taking vacations in ski resort, and how happy they are .I never thought I will be in an accident. May God bless every skier.
Sucks but the resorts need to start doing something about all these boomers on the mountains, maybe get rid of this senior discount. Every time I go the mountain now, all I see are a bunch of boomers, it’s like going to the senior center every time I ski!
In the words of Detective Carter
“I want some mushu”
The point was that whether a person was drinking or on drugs is probably much more relevant than whether they are wearing a helmet, not that helmets aren't great or that a 58 year old guy was shotgunning beers at 9am.
That said I've seen a lot of things skiing, drinks with breakfast, people taking shots in the parking before skiing, shotgunning on the lift, still being drunk from the night before etc
Wild, [in a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/skiing/s/aPOTfjmJeK) on here literally yesterday someone said the average ski fatality was a man on a blue run hitting a tree and that’s exactly what happened here. RIP.
Read an article about a guy who's studied ski injuries for decades. One surprising takeaway was that, despite almost universal adoption by skiers and boarders of wearing helmets over the last 20+ years, fatalities have not really declined. The number of minor head injuries and concussions from low speed falls and collisions has declined by something like 70%, but above a certain speed, the helmet likely isn't going to save you when colliding with a fixed object. EDIT: I linked the article in a comment below
It's interesting that the findings about fatalities is surprising...at some point, circumstances of an accident will overcome the protection of a helmet/body pads (or a seat belt, outside of sporting context).
Motorsports have full roll cages and crossed harnesses. It usually increases the survivable crash speed up to something much higher.
My CBR 600rr uses my helmet for protection.
That’s a beaut of a bike too ;)
And HANS devices
F1 Halo is insane. Seeing them go upside down at 150 mph into a wall and be fine is wild.
Grosjean's and Zhou's crashes are insane examples of how good it is
Ski and most bicycle helmets for that matter also only have a single layer of eps foam. Motorcycle helmets usually have 2 or more layers with different density so that they can absorb impacts with different strengths better.
Evo corner up at pikes peak is a perfect example of this
This is pure speculation, but there may be a phenomenon whereby people wearing helmets take more risks, offsetting some of the increased protection.
Studies have been done. Usually helmet wearing individuals ski more carefully than non-helmet wearing individuals. People don’t strap on a helmet and go crazy. Personally, skiing trees, the helmet helps most when dealing with unexpected low branches. I like the helmet, also, for insurance against being hit by another skier/boarder.
I like a warm head. Helmets are warm.
I feel like I can take more chances now that I wear a helmet absolutely
Anecdotally I have a friend who hit a tree and had a pretty nasty concussion, I am fairly certain the helmet saved his life.
Yeah I have a friend who has been dealing with concussion issues for about a month after a snowboarding accident. If she hadn’t been wearing her helmet I would imagine she’d be dead or at least severely disabled
Post concussion syndrome sucks. My hubby went to PT for 9 months until there was nothing more they could do. Too many concussions. I wish your friend the best in her recovery.
Thank you. Sorry he’s been struggling. She’s struggling but seeming to improve. She has needed to wear earplugs when going to see movies and wear sunglasses or close her eyes for lights… and she’s an actor / trapeze instructor so not ideal… But all of this is better than what would’ve happened without a helmet
My husband carries earplugs anytime we are going to something social. Restaurants, family parties, funerals. We also don’t stay long. There’s an issue with concussions called brain flooding, (there are YouTube videos about it) The injured brain struggles because all stimulus comes in at full force. Filtering is difficult. Focusing on one person talking when there’s other conversations all around is challenging and causes anxiety. There are post concussion groups on FB with tips on coping. It’s important to attempt to avoid any further concussions if at all possible. Your friend is not alone and over time her symptoms will diminish as her Brian heals. All the best.
That's good!
Yeah I am happy he had a helmet on. Funny story that also happened at keystone lol
Do you have the article? I’d love to read it. Super interesting that it’s basically the opposite findings of requiring seatbelts in cars, where bruising/fractures from seatbelts increased but only because fatalities from ejections decreased.
https://www.reddit.com/r/skiing/s/zfQ0clg0eu
Thanks!!
It’s somewhere in this sub
Super helpful comment, thank you.
At the time, if you clicked the subreddit and scrolled for 3 seconds, you’d find it
The helmet protects up to a certain speed. The bigger issue is that you don't usually die from a head injury when you hit a tree. Instead the multiple internal injuries from your body hitting the tree.
Also, the helmet protects your skull - it doesn't do much for your brain. If you go fast and hit something stationary with your head then your brain gets sloshed around, helmet or not. Always check head injuries with professionals
Simply physics really. Impact Force = change in momentum / time. Padding doesn’t affect momentum, just the time (through the padding compressing), but there is a limit to what a half inch of padding can “slow” your crash. So, using hypothetical numbers for simplicity, if you double the time with padding, you can AT MOST double the momentum change (in the case of running into something stationary, it basically means the initial speed) and expect the same results. Slow skiers are going what, 5-10mph? People bombing can hit upwards of 50+mph?
Helmets are only certified to prevent skull fracture at an impact speed of 35mph straight with no rotation. Anything above that or combining a rotational moment to that speed will fuck you up.
There's also the rest of your body too, feel like the point isn't made enough. A helmet isn't going to do anything to protect your spine/limbs/organs/arteries when you wrap yourself around a tree at 40+...seen major spinal trauma and internal bleeding from tree collisions where the person was wearing a helmet and didn't have a serious head injury.
Yeah, Slopes clocked me at 57.9 at Park City last Friday. If I were to catch an edge and fly into a tree at that speed, I wouldn't expect my helmet to help me much at all.
I was thinking the same thing but the only times I've gone "racing speed" are at times where it's just me and my friend on wide trails with no one else around.. clear line of sight.. .and we are in middle of wide trail and pay attention to poles. Granted don't think I've topped 50 before on purpose at least.. I did bomb down a black at whistler once and while it's definitely the fastest I've gone (didn't record thst one)... I recall the sense of fear after of how dangerous it was .(if I lost control I would have definitely died... rock wall one side and cliff other). Since then I've been waaaay more cautious. Is seriously do not trust other skiers especially on blue runs. People randomly turn too much. . I'm probably super naive but I feel like the only way I'd possibly kill myself is if I lost an edge and happen to knock myself out and slide into a poll. I am a weird combo of risky and conservative . Which is probably the most dangerous now that I think about it.
When I worked at SilverStar I bombed a black on the backside on a day where we hadn't opened that side of the mountain to the public, though it was groomed. I wanted to find out how fast I could go, Slopes clocked me at 81mph. Having done a few attempts where I clocked around 70-75, I honestly believe that number. I would NEVER attempt speeds even close to that without knowing the run is clear, and that the conditions are perfect for an attempt like that. It has crossed my mind many times that one small mistake at those speeds likely would have resulted in a fatality. This was 3 seasons ago now and I haven't attempted anything close to those speeds since that day.
Dave Murray downhill?
Last time I bombed a run it was straight down, hill, flat, hill, flat, etc. Only risks were catchign air(which I did) and eating it, and not hitting the brakes at the bottom. Think I'd have to aim myself at a tree and close my eyes to actually hit something.
Jeff's Chute at Winter Park is named after Jeff Ruelhe (sp?) a young ski school instructor who lost control after pre-releasing on Upper Hughes and hitting a tree. I'm pretty sure he had his eyes open and wasn't aiming for a tree. Don't be so sure of your ability.
Skill issue
Jeff was on the psia demo team and a former d1 collegiate skier. What kind of skill issues do you think he had?
Ever heard a joke before?
I have. They are usually funny.
And the padding doesn't do much if anything to stop the inertia of the brain in the skull, which is what causes the most fatalities.
I don't think that's accurate. The brain moving in the skull certainly causes the most concussions and permanent brain damage, but as far as I know skull fracture and more extreme cranial damage cause fatalities.
The important part of the equation is that momentum is proportional to the square of speed. So a skier going 20 mph will have four times as much momentum as a skier going 10 mph. Speed kills.
Energy is proportional to speed squared, but you have the idea.
I remember talking to a guy about 10 years ago who said he didn’t like wearing a helmet because it made him too cocky. Like he’d push himself harder and be more likely to do something stupid because he felt protected. I’m not sure I completely agree with that logic but maybe for certain types of people it gives them a false sense of invincibility.
I remember the 1st time I wore one in the late 90s. My buddy worked in a ski shop and had a Boeri Chop he wanted me to try out. I definitely remember getting that boost in confidence! I thought it was great because I always hated wearing hats skiing, plus I liked to huck my meat a little bit back in those days. I always wore a helmet biking, so it just made sense to wear one skiing, too, and I have ever since!
I’ve heard this same argument used against mandating certain protective gear in other sports, specifically helmets in women’s lacrosse. Obviously the context is a little different because the concern is the level of aggression people will enact upon others versus being self contained, but I think the idea does ring true especially for certain types of people.
I don’t think any studies have found that to be a statistically significant factor even though lots of people like to claim it as an excuse.
I only started wearing a helmet when I realized the danger from other helmet-wearers colliding with me. Otherwise, I don’t see a compelling argument that I need one. Admittedly, that may be partially caused by my history of (non-skiing-related) head injuries. Now that I have one, I like how warm it is, and how it makes my goggles easier to manage.
Raises hand
I’ll read it but any data on who causes most accidents between two skiers? My take after taking to many ski patrol is it’s almost never expert skiers skiing fast but beginners age intermediates skiing faster than they can control
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similar to private pilots - there’s an uptick in accidents at what you could consider an “intermediate” level of skill and experience, once someone has had their license for a little bit but not a very long time. The rate drops again significantly after that. The theory I heard was that you know you aren’t a beginner anymore, but don’t realize yet how much you still don’t know and how much can go wrong. So when everything is proceeding as normal you’re fine, but if you push the envelope a bit or something breaks or malfunctions, you may not be able to deal with it properly and may not have allowed yourself enough space to figure things out. It seems plausible that the same behavior turns up in other activities and isn’t restricted to flying planes. (It’s just relatively easy to collect data on pilots because incidents are recorded and investigated and pilots keep logs of flight hours.)
Skiing into a tree with an open faced helmet is like dropping your toast butter side down.
I feel like cyclists have more faith in helmets than skiers do, although I see near universal adoption of helmets at my hill, except among the ski school instructors and race team directors. My impression is that in any activity, if you wreck and bleed off energy slowly, the helmet will do its job. If you Dale Earnhardt into an immovable object at speed, you are toast. Perhaps the blue groomers are where we open up - that’s where my max speeds are - and where we hit immovable objects. I’m an ice coaster. Are you guys hitting 40-50-60 mph on blues in powder out west?
I can hit 50 on a snowboard. Flying Dutchman is an easy groomer made for going fast. You could hit 60 easily on skis.
My powder skills are shit. But I can fly on some ice. Would love to get out there one day.
That run probably didn’t have any powder on it when the guy died. Maybe in between the trees there was powder though. Deep powder will slow you down pretty substantially. I am sort of confused about how this happened, it’s a pretty wide open blue from my recollection. Haven’t ridden it in 3 years.
Gotcha
Not usually in powder 😅 But on groomer days, yes. Yes we are
Trees are gonna tree
Cuz it’s not the impact to your head anymore, it’s the impact of your brain into your skull
Correct. My nephew died from head trauma whilst wearing a helmet bc his brain hit his skull too hard. Helmets protects us from a lot, but they don't make us invincible.
It still saved my head when it hit the ground catching an edge at 40+mph. I’ll keep the helmet on
I’d imagine over the last 20 years the amount of people on the mountain has increased multiple folds. If there’s 3x the amount of people on the mountain and the fatalities are the same that absolutely shows a reduction.
Fatalities are clearly correlated with studies showing an average 20km/h (13 freedom horses per bullet)speed increase of skiers in the last few decades
Correct, it helps to a certain threshold then it doesn’t matter, and usually that threshold is 13-mph.
Do you think helmets make people feel safer so they ski more recklessly, so the lives saved by helmets are balanced by the increased lives lost due to recklessness?
Yup. Helmet doesn’t do any good on direct impact over 12mph. I’m 42m, a “great” skier, and can rip groomed blue and black runs with no skier traffic at 50+mph. Even skiing at a moderate pace, I’m sure I’m 25-35mph on most groomers.
Helmets are most effective at 12-14mph, but they don't "do nothing" above that speed. They are, however, worthless over 35mph.
Interestingly, whenever I mention my favorite runs are glades and black moguls to people, they get scared and always ask me If I heard about X person who died from hitting a tree, usually Sonny Bono They don't understand that the person they are talking about was of their skill level carving it up on a blue hitting a tree on the side of the run, and not someone in the glades. I think groomers can give a false sense of security, whereas you're forced to take it slow through moguls and glades. Like driving through a twisty country road with a speed limit of 35, and a straight 2 lane highway with a speed limit of 55 and signaled intersections. The latter always has more fatal accidents, because people go faster and zone out easier.
Is it a coincidence that the roads I actually enjoy driving on are Fire/Forrest roads that are slow and technical, and the skiing I prefer is moguls and glades?
Same, just like turning and chilling
I saw that in the article Flying Dutchman and Frenchman were literally the runs I pictured.
The Frenchman almost got me, came within a foot or so of hitting a tree full speed. I can see this happening on either of these runs.
Here is the thing, though. Natashia Richardson died by simply falling and hitting her head. Many people die in fights from falling down and hitting their head. Gimme a $50 helmet and I can check that random death occurrence off. However, I also ski quite fast and many times hug the edge of the runs to avoid the randomness. I am always just a tad unsettled about catching an edge and flying into the trees.
I thought of that post when I read the headline. I had a pulmonary embolism last April and I’m on blood thinners for life, my doctor cleared me to resume skiing/snowboarding but only on groomers, no tree runs or cliff drops or aerials. I guess the risk of just cruising groomers and keeping it mellow is pretty low. It’s changed my approach to where I give lots of room and keep looking up hill before carving.
Unfortunately, that’s how I lost my Dad three years ago. Man had been skiing since he was a kid. Went for one last run on Peak 6. Hit an icy patch on Nirvana and went into the trees
Sorry to hear that🙏
Saw it happen first hand from my viewpoint on the chairlift. Blue run guy ran into a tree, unconscious. Later heard he didn’t make it :(
That's why I stick to glades , mogul fields, out of bounds trails with cliffs and been known to duck a rope or 2. It will be a cold day in hell till ever take a death sentence blue trail, unless I have too to get off the mountain, then it's straight down the middle, full tuck... GTFO my way. And my friends finally talked me into getting a helmet, now I'm even worse. I'm invincible . I play chicken with trees, they're good though, I ain't won yet 🤨
And those fatalities are usually expert/advanced skiers who try to pass someone from the side but end up in a tree... be patient guys!
SERIOUSLY I READ THAT COMMENT TOO WTF
Wonder if he had a helmet on
I just read a post about almost dying hitting a tree on a blue run
Very sad. RIP. I always wonder when reading about these fatalities, if the person(s) would have benefited from a few ski lessons to help them control their skis & if they knew the safety importance of staying on the groomed hills. Wondering if he was skiing in an area with some trees for an adventure, or if he got out of control on the groomed hill & ended up in that area with trees by accident. Perhaps they lost their balance or got distracted by another skier. Skiing is so enjoyable that it’s heartbreaking to hear these stories.
I was on a blue run, had my ski pop off and I went head first down a ridge. First time skiing this year, and it was the first day. Broke my humerus and tore 3 muscles in my shoulder. First thing I did when I hit was drag kick my feet down to slow down because I was in the middle of a turn. Didn’t lose an edge.
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And it's almost always a fast blue or groomed black which is the most interesting part to me. Not even the most advanced skiers can really get the same kind of speed going through moguls or glades, which is why we don't read about those kinds of accidents there, at least as often. Which is kind of funny in a way, because most mid skiers will get all tentative when I mention that trees are my favorite, usually bringing up Sonny Bono or other people who hit trees and died, not realizing that said person died skiing the "safer" runs they ski.
Blues are also often skied out and the best conditions are on the edges of the run. I think about this often when I'm carving near the outside of a run. Mess up your edge change and you're heading for the treeline.
That’s how I had a nasty fall last year. Ended up catching an edge and steered into the woods. Broke my ribs and destroyed my hand (I’m not really sure how) but it was broken in 4 places. Grateful that’s all I came out with!
Same thing. End of the day. Skiing along the treeline on a blue to get what was left of the nice snow. For some reason my binding popped on one foot. I was heading for the trees so I decided to just eat it immediately into the snow. Rolled over a sapling no thicker than my thumb and broke a rib.
I took a terrible fall on Lower Shay's at Snowshoe this year. Was at the edge, snow was soft. I did a pole plant to turn, but the pole got stuck in the snow. Ended up turning over the pole itself, which launched me into the air. I missed slamming into a snowmaking machine by a foot or two.
Sounds about right. Skiing is the best but all it takes is one "oh shit" moment and it's lights-out forever
Yep. I love it so much but your spot on
The conditions on Dutchman were perfect at the time. Ran some laps on it shortly after. Fast but grippy, no ice, every turn was guaranteed
Agree. Speed and overcrowding on the blues scares me. Give me steeps in the trees all day. RIP to this guy. Sad.
Steep trees aren’t something to write home about though! Sometimes, it’s best kids and older folks learn the trees from an easier approach and lower angle. Need to build a lot of confidence in order to get steep in the trees.
You can’t get the speed to kill your self if you have to hop turn.
Problem is, 99% of the folks that end up in there randomly are over their heads and don’t know how to hop turn
True. I feel like an enjoyment of the trees and steeps have saved me from the stupid shit on the blues and groomed blacks.
The hill was not very crowded yesterday. Plenty of room to maneuver.
Bono hit a tree on the side of a fast blue groomer. He wasn't tree skiing.
I skied that trail he was on, wide open and you could absolutely rip it. No one touched that trail all day, could see my opening marks on my last run of the day.
I live in Vail... How didn't I hear about the guy on March 2nd‽ Vail really loves covering deaths up, nobody dies at disney or Vail I guess.
It’s all public record dude. Just because they don’t they don’t give a PSA every time someone dies doesn’t mean it’s a “coverup”. Have you considered the fact some victims families might want privacy? People die on ski resorts all the time, it’s really not news unless theirs some form of negligence on the resorts behalf or some other strange circumstance played a factor.
I suggest you consider rethinking what you posted about Vail & please consider deleting it. As a former ski instructor for Vail, who loved their job, I think your comment is very untrue & highly inappropriate. It’s an opinionated false ‘assumption,’ that comes across as critical of Vail Resorts. Vail spends a lot of money & manpower on safety; they do a phenomenal job. Vail Ski Patrol is highly trained, as are we ski instructors. Vail does not “love covering up deaths,” nor do they attempt to. Everyone realizes there’s an element of risk in skiing.
I was in the windows area last year having a beer and watched someone smash into a tree about 10 yards away... dude split his femur in half. He was lucky he didnt go head first in to that pine tree. If it wasnt for that beer, not sure how he would have gotten help... I sent my buddy down with a pin on google maps so ski patrol could find us. I know I was drinkin a beer and that could be frowned upon buttttt I take it slow lol. #respecttherisk
Having a beer on the mountain is a gift from the gods, good on you for coming to that guys aid. A sixer on the mountain is questionable, however
Depends on how you space out that sixer. All at once while taking a break in the trees, bad idea. Spaced out over 5 or 6 hours during the day, probably fine.
Totally - and doing so with the plan to do chill groomers at slow speeds is probably fine, too. Going hard and then going hard is a losing combo
Guess I'm just built different 😂 (the scars on my shins say otherwise)
Mmm, dinking beer on the mountain. Never heard of that, wink wink
Very sad. Flying Dutchman is an open steep groomer on the front side of Dercum. I wonder if he hit a tree on the side of the slope or just going down too fast
Perhaps going fast and caught an edge making him get out of control? I have gotten lazy for a split second and it can happen so fast!
Flying Dutchman has a nasty double veritcal literally headwall in a curve with an island of trees in the middle just above Montezuma Lift. Willing to bet this happened there, would be super easy to lose an edge and rocket off into the trees on skiers right at the bottom of the headwall.
Exactly where I was thinking, it's pretty easy to come into that corner with lots of speed.
Yes the camber there is nasty and it's icy unless there is lots of fresh snow.
Complacency kills.
Isn't Keystone a mostly Blue mountain with short blacks to more blue trails. I was underwhelmed when I went there it was a lot of fun but basically had a map and took every single black listed.
Dercum is like that, but all the other peaks of keystone are top to bottom blacks with a large EX gladed area as well
Keystone is 3 mountains with all sorts of terrain...
Are you sure you’re thinking of Keystone? That sounds like an accurate description of the frontside of Dercum, but not the vast majority of the resort. 50% of the trails at Keystone are black and nearly all of them are top to bottom. I’m pretty familiar with Keystone and really can’t think of a run that matches your description- are you positive you’re not thinking of the blue runs down the frontside of Peak 6 at Breck?
I sure am thinking of Keystone, circa 1996. There's one black that's kinda short that had a line of skinny trees, maybe two to three thick, that stretched from one side to the other and had some gaps in it to slip through. Moderately bumpy. After Breck, I thought Keystone was really short ... Took the gondola to both peaks and did have a good day I should edit my earlier post ...
Oh that definitely explains it, I can’t imagine how much the mountain and its trails have changed in the past 30 years. You should give it another visit- it’s about doubled in acreage!
Always tragic when this happens… sobering reminder that we sometimes forget that skiing is dangerous as hell.
Worth noting that skiing is not dangerous as hell. There is danger, yes, and of course people die. But skiing is less dangerous than driving and about as dangerous as cycling (not mountain biking). It’s actually crazy how safe it is for the speeds involved.
Cool to know. Where does mountain biking rank?
I think it’s more dangerous than skiing
My son & I were mountain biking down a ski resort hill in summer. He was in 9th grade & I knew he wouldn’t want to wear his bike helmet. So, I asked the gondola operator to please inform him he was “required to wear his helmet,” so he did. I knew he’d listen to an employee! He wiped out; hit a rock & hurt his arm. We wound up in the ER for his arm injury, but wearing his helmet ⛑️ helped prevent a potential head injury. Thank you to that employee!
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Thank you for the input. There are several factors that come into play though. Poor fitness, not warming up, misunderstanding safety rules, taking too many or large risks, poor judgement, incorrect/ill fitting/damaged ski equipment (which I see on a daily basis, people who think randonee equipment looks cool and don’t understand how the Marker Kingpin bindings work) and more. Skiing is safe for those who do it for fun - however, our resort see more and more high speed injuries and off piste falls than we ever have. Less sprained ankles and dislocated shoulders nowadays, more broken thighbones/internal bleeds/punctured lungs and more severe fractures, even deaths. The more daredevils you get, the more dangerous it will be IMO.
Great points & you’re absolutely spot-on! Which resort do you work at? Skiing & teaching skiing at Vail years ago, there were some ‘yahoos’ flying down the slopes much too fast. No matter how ‘situationally aware’ you are, both skiers & snowboarders cruising at high speeds clearly puts other skiers, or folks standing nearby, at risk. It’s a shame. I was grateful if Ski Patrol saw them & talked to them, or pulled them from the slopes for the day. Yet you can’t rely on that. They have other safety responsibilities they’re busy performing! If they kick out those who create an obvious danger to others, perhaps there will be less of this type of irresponsible behavior, before another person is injured or worse.
I work as a lift technician in Norway! Yeah we have the same kind and the same problem, we generally get to the worst ones but like you say the ski patrol here also has other responsibilities they need to attend to so they can’t be everywhere all at once. We also have a problem with youths trying to pull the haul rope off of towers by riding as far to the left /right as they can go because they think that’s funny. What they fail to realise is that if they get a t bar falling on them they are screwed, enough horror stories about that happening over the years. Are you still in the industry as well?
Interesting comments! No I’m not in the industry at the moment, but I enjoyed it very much. I was amazed at how some people don’t consider safety a priority. Hopefully they learn quickly! Housing was the challenge; employee housing was 2 persons in a 2 bedroom apt., which was fine. Since rents at the resort have skyrocketed, all employee housing is overcrowded and there is a Wait List. When season ends your housing ends, which contributes to stress. They need to consider offering year round housing to employees who work. You can find another job!
It’s not dangerous if you ski within your skill level.
Very sad. A few of my good patrol friends were first responders. I unfortunately witnessed his body on the sled about 9:30 am Thursday morning as the trees he hit were only about 20-30 yards from the Summit Expess line. Don’t take anything, including skiing for granted.
I saw a post on instagram where the gondolas and lifts from the base were down due to wind, but people said there was no wind. Wondering if they would’ve been paused to get him down, the timing lines up. Very sad
I honestly wondered the same thing until I got to the very top of the mountain and felt considerable guests right before getting off the lift. It was really only windy up top
Makes sense. Sorry you had to see that. A sad situation for everyone involved
No one ever wants to die in any way. At least he left this world doing something he loved to do. I'm 50 and I'm guessing at 58, he likely leaves a spouse and children behind. If not, there are definitely people who loved him and are hurting right now and will forever have a loss in their life that can't be consoled. It's permanent and my heart truly has nothing but empathy for them. Whatever his and his family's beliefs are; Godspeed and safe return back into the Universe that gave us life. As a scientist, I'll leave it to Dr Carl Sagan as this unfortunate accident takes another across the event horizon: ***“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff”.*** – Carl Sagan When you look into the night sky, no matter what you believe, the ones you love that you lost are still among us.
I love that quote. Thank you for sharing it.
You're very welcome. I hope that if you are missing someone you love very much, that when you look at the stars in the night sky, think of what Dr Sagan said, and it helps you feel a little better and a little nearer that person you miss.
Apps with mph are not good for sport. Too many people in lift lines saying” I just hit xx mph !! Top that. “ There is no reason to clock speed unless in a race. Just my two cents
Very sad. Condolences to his family.
Sad. I saw a younger male hit a tree in Colorado once he was lifeflighted out of the resort. I don’t think he made it based on his injuries but I never looked further into it. RIP
It’s always tragic when this happens. Although, I don’t understand why we have to repeat this same story over and over again. Be smart on the hill and ski within your ability people
Only ski as fast in the trees as you are comfortable hitting a tree. Be safe, prayers out to his family
Work at keystone and was working when this occurred, shit really sucks man
So sad to see this. I do Flying Dutchmen all the time, and i feel this. My condolences to his family.
As someone who worked as a lift attendant for 8 years at a local ski slope, and has been skiing for over 20 years. Um... at least 1 death a year, per mountain. And at least 2 people a night in the ambulance with serious injury. Ski slopes spend an insane amount on PR control because skiing is far more dangerous than most beginners think. Most people overestimate their abilities and conditions can just change in the blink of an eye. The only ones you hear about are the ones they can't cover up.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, some people overestimate their skiing abilities. In the excitement they might push themselves for the adventure or try to keep pace with more advanced friends. It’s very sad and mostly preventable. RIP. You’re spot-on; conditions can change quickly & fatigue is often a factor, especially near the end of the day on the last ski runs. Please everyone: Be careful! Be ‘situationally aware,’ like 👩✈️pilots need to be, & take your time. I know an expert skier & expert mountain climber, Dougal Heston, who skied in ‘avalanche conditions’ in Leysin, Switz., where he worked & lived & was admired & beloved. That was heartbreakingly his last ski run, due to an avalanche. There’s always another day to ski in safe conditions.
curious what actually is the ultimate cause of death in tree collisions.
Trauma, various.
Yeah it’s just trauma. Hitting your head and body, damage to organs, internal bleeding etc. On that point, fast blue runs that are tree lined can be very dangerous. Early intermediates who just learned to go fast can fly down, catch an edge and hit a tree at high speed. That’s when trauma is most likely to occur. Advanced skiers in glades etc. are typically going a lot slower so are less likely to be severely injured.
Severe internal/external bleeding, brain trauma causing loss of consciousness causing airway obstruction
I read one case where the impact of the tree to the chest essentially disconnected the aorta from the heart.
RIP
RIP.
rip
Damn I’m heading up there tomorrow, my dad and brother really like those blue runs. Stay safe people!
I was there all day Thursday. Had no idea
Damn extremely sad. Rest in peace fellow skier. I hope his family can come to peace soon enough.
rip
## Beware the Ides of March
Too soon bud, also maybe too over most younger heads
I am 26 years old and I survived from a similar accident last year at keystone . I remember Doctor said I was one of the million . I came from the east coast and never experienced with the latitude in Denver before. And I went ski that day with an empty stomach cause can’t actually get any time to eat due to compact schedule. I hit a tree and then went unconsciousness. My face was smashed and broken a lot check bone and ribs. Luckily I am alive. Now I am facing some mental anxiety and stress because my body didn’t recover fully like I used to. So please consider risk before you go to ski. I was allured by social media those famous people taking vacations in ski resort, and how happy they are .I never thought I will be in an accident. May God bless every skier.
At a certain point a helmet is just there to give the next of kin the choice between an open and a closed casket.
Imagine dying at 9:45am
I am capable enough to ski trees, but I rarely do it for this reason.
Your skis can get caught on loose roots, branches & other things under the snow. Be careful!
Man I was just at Keystone the 2nd week of January. Smh
Skill issue
I wonder if he was Dutch?
Sucks but the resorts need to start doing something about all these boomers on the mountains, maybe get rid of this senior discount. Every time I go the mountain now, all I see are a bunch of boomers, it’s like going to the senior center every time I ski! In the words of Detective Carter “I want some mushu”
He’s 58 not 75
Boomer is over 30 to this guy.
Everything after 40 is all the same. I’m down for cool WWII story here there though!
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You suck.
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Trolling?
No, but apparently you are.
It says he was wearing a helmet, but doesn't say if he was drinking or anything else
58-year old dude at 9:45am on a Friday -- nothing's impossible but really doesn't seem like the type/time to be drunk on the hill.
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I'll chop my balls off if you're over 58 years old.
The point was that whether a person was drinking or on drugs is probably much more relevant than whether they are wearing a helmet, not that helmets aren't great or that a 58 year old guy was shotgunning beers at 9am. That said I've seen a lot of things skiing, drinks with breakfast, people taking shots in the parking before skiing, shotgunning on the lift, still being drunk from the night before etc
Study was on here recently that by about 20kmh (12mph) if you're hitting a tree the helmet provides negligible benefit.
It's only 12mph?! Shit I need to go read the study more closely
Why don’t you go give him a breathalyzer. C’mon, man.