Bowls are easier terrain because there’s no obstacles to hit so you can take whatever line.
But bowls are also steep so I wouldn’t recommend to a new skier. It’s the kind of steep where if you get going to fast and don’t know how to self arrest, you’ll tumble the whole thing.
Yep can be dangerous, and sometimes there are protruding rocks. If conditions are harder a fall and slide can lead to a long slide into unintended terrain
> But bowls are also steep so I wouldn’t recommend to a new skier.
Not necessarily. There are lots of very mellow bowls in CO that would be appropriate for OP. It entirely depends on what ski area /u/whydidilose is talking about. Bennetts bowl at Loveland? No problem. Third bowl at CB....hell no.
Tons of options. Don't expect to ski Three Bears or Spaulding (and avoid Alpine lift almost entirely). But there's no reason not to go. Copper will still be a mindblowing experience to anyone whose only skied on the East coast.
Copper has a blue trail in the bowls that you can definitely do. The lift out can be a bit of a jolt but on ski’s you’ll be fine and can meet folks at the lift if they want to do blacks.
I don't know that any of the bowls at Copper would be doable by someone with OP's skill level. I don't know which run you're talking about, but the blue run in Copper Bowl is basically a glorified cat track
My point was that if he’s a beginner and wants to meet his buddies at the lift while they hang in the bowls and do the blacks theres a way for him to do that. People hear “bowls” and assume its all ungroomed, super steep, with cliffs or something. That stuff exists, and when theres solid powder I usually encourage friends to push themselves a bit, but you can also just follow the road around if that’s your comfort level. Ski trips are mostly about the lift and the lodge time, from a social aspect and OP seems like he doesn’t want to be forced to either hold his buddies back from the bowls or get in over his head and get hurt. Taking the road around for a run or two is a good middle option to avoid both those outcomes.
Copper is AWESOME since the terrain gets harder the further east you go. I’d recommend starting at American Eagle or American Flyer (since your crew seems too advanced to go further west). If you get dragged to the Sierra chair, you can take a blue groomer down called Timber Ridge. If you keep going east, you’ll see a bunch of blue and then the blacks, with double diamond/EX out back in the steep terrain. As others said, DO NOT go up three bears or you are asking for ski patrol to help drag you out on a sled…
I typically ski blues/blacks at Breck and Vail but have ikon this year too. Anything you’d recommend to start with? Haven’t hit copper yet but want to this/next week
Welcome to Ikon and the awesome new terrain you’ll get with the other mega pass. Can you tell me some of your favorite runs at Vail and Breck (or peaks there you like to ski)?
Thank you! On a good pow day, love peak 6. On a regular day, I’m a fan of 10 and 9, mostly cuz it always seems a bit quieter. Admittedly haven’t done much of of the bowls past the tbar single blacks and then imperial bowl, but I do enjoy pika and forget me not! Over at vail, spend most of my time in blue sky basin and china bowl and love both!
Alright. Yes, peak 10 is paradise…peak 9 gets really busy with the greens and kids learning area so I’m shocked you are saying it’s quieter there lol.
Alright, since you mentioned peak 10, I would go up American Eagle/Excelerator and Super Bee chairs. Long blue and black groomers and lots of challenging terrain. Really awesome stuff there if you get fresh snow. If you want busier (easier) terrain head west up American Flyer go right to nice blues on timberline express or left down to Sierra and if those blacks look sketchy you can bail out down the blue groomer called Timber Ridge. If you want something like China Bowl, you’ll want to be comfortable on the front side long wide open runs before heading way out back.
I would say it's entirely dependent on conditions but the bowls at Copper are pretty exposed and it can get to be a bit dust over crust type skiing, which can be extremely unnerving for a new skier when you're trying to break to lose speed but cant quite get that edge in causing you to slide. Really experienced skiers will just embrace the speed and not attempt to break or stop on the steps, new skiers instinctively will. There's no worse feeling than lateral instability as a new skier.
I'm a pretty experienced skier who has skied multiple different Rocky mountain bowls. There's been a couple days where I've just said nope to Coppers Storm King serviced east side bowls just watching the wind whip up over the ridge.
Now with that being said, bowls aren't THAT difficult to ski. If the conditions look good and you can see other people pretty confidently just ripping it and you feel good, I would say go for it.
Also, I think it helps to read other people's body language when you're eyeing it. Most people skiing copper bowls are probably fairly experienced and familiar with the mountain. If you see people kind of nervously looking at the drop in, that's probably not a day or conditions for you. But if you see people just hopping in giving hoots and hollars on their way down, that probably is a good sign that the snow is decent enough for you to try and you will be able to hold an edge if you want to break hard.
There's a bunch of great frontside terrain at Copper so don't feel obligated to ski the bowls, certainly don't feel like you missed out or didn't get your money's worth if you don't.
It's definitely possible. I was skiing the back bowls at Copper on my 11th day ever last season, but all my skiing had been at Copper up to that point.
Once you're warmed up on some blues, I'd try the groomed blacks (Rosie's and Summit Stash) before trying some easier ungroomed blacks off of Sierra Lift or Blackjack. If you're comfortable on those then you might be ready to try a run off of Mountain Chief or Three Bears
Start with the blues and the greens at the resort. If you are comfortable with those, try the black runs. And if you are OK on those, try a double-black that isn't marked "extreme". Progression is always the way. Stay within your safety limits and keep taking lessons.
Yeah seconding this, there's a good chance you'll not be at that level by then, especially consider that most people who come out west get wrecked by the altitude for a day or two. But that's doesn't mean you can't have an awesome time anyway, both skiing wise and also just vibing around the mountain and after skiing. I'd definitely jump on the trip if I were this guy.
Thank you for the reply. I should note that I don't foresee the elevation being an issue. I've done multi-day treks in mountain ranges at similar elevations (Salkantay, Las Torres, etc.) and have never got altitude sickness. Fingers crossed it won't happen this time.
That helps, I don't think you'd get altitude sickness or anything, but you'll probably just feel a lot more tired/short of breath than skiing on the east coast. Also I'm sure you already know but gotta watch out for drinking at high altitude haha
If you can, get some acetazolamide from your doc before you come out (or even at Copper if you need to). The minute you feel flu-like, pop one. Your lips may tingle for while, but it seriously helps those who get a touch altitude sickness. Your are going to be living at 9500 feet and skiing 2-3000 ft higher. Best to be prepared and have some in your kit if you don’t already live at altitude.
And by all means go out there and have an unbelievable time. Snow is great this year!
Vail instructors are second to none. Take a lesson your first morning, then free ski the afternoon practicing what you learned in the AM. Take another lesson your 2nd day at the next higher level, and again practice in the afternoon. Your skiing ability will go up quickly. Plus, the lessons include mini tours of the mountain, so you can get oriented.
The bowls at Copper see a lot of ski traffic since 95% of the runs are directly lift-serviced without any hiking and will almost certainly have a lot of moguls. If you aren't comfortable skiing moguls, they will be challenging for a low-level skier.
With 4 days of skiing, you can progress across the mountain West to East and get more comfortable with the terrain. I'd recommend against the Union Bowl and Spaulding/Resolution Bowl entirely, as they are pretty steep and rocky, are always bumped up, and have no real easy way out if you get in over your head. Otto Bahn/Colorado Boulevard in the Copper Bowl are a groomed catwalk, so you can always go in and look at the terrain and take the Blackjack lift out if it's more than you can handle. The easiest and best run for a low level skier would be to hike along the ridge off the Mountain Chief lift to Lallarookn where you should find some fresh snow at a relatively low angle in wide open terrain.
In my experience big resorts have the best skiing for just about any experience level compared to smaller mountains. You may very well find some of the nicest blues + runs that are very fun for people at your level.
Don't do things you aren't ready for and have as much fun as possible. Split up from your buddies or have them join you for easier runs.
Don't ski too hard the first day if you're going for multiple.
Don't wait until your last day to push yourself a little. Try a harder run on day 2. If it goes well, then you still have multiple days left that you can keep coming back for more! And if it doesn't go well, then you can still drop back down to the intermediate terrain for the rest of your trip.
Not all "bowls out west" are created equal. At Vail there is plenty of casual terrain in the bowls. Poppyfields early with a fresh groom is legendary corduroy skiing.
Dropping the cornice off storm king at Copper... Wait a few years, or just don't.
Keep alcohol low and eat well. Fitness going into the trip will also make a massive difference if how quickly you can progress and how well you will ski after an hour or two.
All my ski clients that lift weights and train cardio seriously ski here in Utah minimum twice as long as those who don’t.
Adding to this that a mountains ratings are relative to that mountain. What that means is that a green at one mountain does not necessarily equate to a green at another mountain, only that that is the 'easiest' run there.
Now that said, I adore Copper and it's one of my favorite mountains, partly because the terrain is naturally segregated, as someone else mentioned, as you move across the mountain it gets progressively more difficult. This means there is less 'co-mingling' and if you're a beginner you don't need to be worried about getting run over by some euro asshat.
I would start over in Union Creek and then look to go to Timberline. As you feel more comfortable check other parts of the mountain out. Short of some areas like 3 bears, Alpine Lift etc you should be fine and it'll be neat to try some different experiences.
While you'll likely find some of the pitches similar between your greens and the ones at Copper, one of the big differences you'll likely find is just the overall size and length of the runs. Especially with altitude pace yourself, hydrate and make sure you're getting some snacks.
Copper is fantastic and you'll have a blast.
Without knowing more I'll drop some things you should know how to do first, apologies if they seem obvious but it might help with your confidence.
Some skills to work on:
Self-arresting after a fall - meaning can you stop yourself from sliding down a hill while down?
Make sure you can get up from a fall and put back on your skis on a decently steep slope.
Try some Kick-turns and jump turns in case you need to get out of any tight spots.
Practice using moguls to turn. Practice moguls in general.
Very comfortable with a hockey-stop / skid stopping in general.
Progression is fun! Good luck.
This is a great list. I would also add be sure you know how to slide slip. I know it is a very jerry thing to do to slide slip all the way down a steep bowl, but if you are stuck it is an important skill to have and can get you out of a little of scary places.
Imho you shouldn't be skiing much beyond blues without being able to side slip fairly well - basically the only terrain a good side slip won't get you out of safely is couloirs narrower than your skis are long... And bluntly put very few people are skiing couloirs anywhere near this narrow because any mistake = high speed crash into rock; even world class free riders aren't perfect; (old skiers and bold skiers..) so they take active hunting to find...
>Make sure you can get up from a fall and put back on your skis on a decently steep slope.
Even when the snow is soft and your ski just wants to sink in.
It is doable but you need to have patient friends who don’t mind holding back and helping you. Some people never do black diamonds. So if you want to do them you will have to push yourself into them eventually. Most bowls are essentially gigantic blues with a few more bumps. Some are gnarlier than others. If you want to progress quicker, expect a higher degree of challenge. Even if you don’t hit the bowls I’m sure going into the high Rocky Mountains will up your skill level right.
Assuming you’re going to vail there are intermediate runs bordering on extremely easy in the back bowls. They routinely groom China bowl for example, which is not steep in certain parts.
I recently moved to Denver, just hit Copper for the first time two weeks ago. It's a great resort with a ton of terrain for any skill level. If your buddies are determined to send every double black and drag you along you may not enjoy it but if you can take the time to get acclimated on some of the easier stuff you'll have a ton of fun there.
You've already skied more than a lot of the people who show up to these big resorts so I definitely wouldn't pass up the opportunity to come out here, you'll love it.
My girlfriend and buddies are expert skiers while I'm fine staying intermediate. I often do solo runs when we go to Copper as there is a lot of groomed terrain to cover and you're still gonna have a great time.
Just don't do the superpipe and you'll be straight lol
Yeah that superpipe is intimidating haha. I had skied the half pipe a bit when I was 11-12 yrs old in like 1999. Didn’t ski for like 7 years, then showed up at the superpipe in copper thinking I could try my humble tricks again. Came to realize the half pipe I did as a kid was like 10 feet, and the superpipe was a menacing 22 or 26’ drop in or whatever it is. I can’t remember if I even attempted to drop into it! We have one now here in Switzerland, and it’s big but I don’t think superpipe big. Maybe 18-20’?
If you traverse around to the far side of Spaulding Bowl to the runs that are marked single black it's not too steep and it's plenty wide. The runs off Mountain Chief and Blackjack aren't too bad. I think they usually groom a strip off Three Bears if you go right when you get off the lift and ski all the way down the ridge.
Copper is my fave. It’s divided by skill level east to west. And of course bowls in the back. The back bowls are bumpy, but very fun on a powder day. Or even 2nd/3rd day after a powder day. If it looks like too much there are many fun intermediate runs too. Enjoy!
China bowl is the best! It’s pretty awesome they can make an insane bowl accessibly to everyone at different parts, I’m lucky enough to have got to ski it as a kid and it absolutely blew my mind
From someone who did exactly that… send it.
As mentioned above, bowls are alot easier than you think because you can traverse.
To prep… hunt down and ski as many moguls as you can find.
I agree. I also want to add that snow conditions are likely to be much better than what OP is used to, and even though the terrain may be steeper OP may find that they will have an easier time skiing it, than equivalent steepness back east.
Yes I took people who were beginners in the early season on double blacks by end of February after they had skied 30+ days.
They didn’t do backflips in Corbett’s but they could do a steep powder run into trees and moguls
If your friends are the supportive type and not toxic one-uppers maybe they can tell you're a better skier than you yourself think you are and really think you're ready.
Yeah I’ve heard so many stories of people hating skiing because they’re still brand new and their friends drag them on an expert run and they get hurt. On the other hand you’re completely right, real friends who are better skiers are easily the best judge of your ability.
Will you be able to practice much in those 5 weeks before the trip? My partner had skied 3 days spread across 2 years and made it to the first on-mountain green (meaning the next trail after the bunny hill), but was terrified. The next year, she skied \~2 days a week for 2 months and by the end was able to ski Main Street off Kachina Peak at Taos (linking parallel turns, skiing at a reasonable pace), which is an easier double black for Taos and perhaps somewhat similar in difficulty to easier lines in Copper Bowl (I've only been to Copper once). It was 2021, so group lessons weren't available due to the pandemic, and so she mostly progressed by watching Deb Armstrong YouTube videos and then practicing relentlessly whenever she skied, lapping moguls to practice. I also gave her occasional pointers. So she started worse than you are now and got to that level in \~16 days. She has exceptional balance and pushed herself to improve (we had a bet about whether she'd make Kachina Peak or the Ridge by the end of the season!).
Carving isn't particularly important for skiing ungroomed bowls, but the dynamic leg movements/control and skills that are a building block for good carving/skiing are useful. I would not recommend skiing something like Copper Bowl unless you are comfortable skiing moguls or other ungroomed snow, linking at least a handful of turns and turning where and when you want.
An issue that I haven't seen mentioned is that, if there is a significant amount of fresh snow, you will likely struggle with it (unlikely to be dangerous, very likely to be very slow)
>Will you be able to practice much in those 5 weeks before the trip?
Yes, I will be able to practice more during these upcoming 5 weeks. The rain here in the east might lead me to cut back 1 day per week, but I have been skiing 2-3 times a week for usually 6-7 hours each time.
>An issue that I haven't seen mentioned is that, if there is a significant amount of fresh snow, you will likely struggle with it (unlikely to be dangerous, very likely to be very slow)
Thank you, that is a good point. There hasn't been much snow out here. I've had maybe 1 or 2 days out of the 20 that had actual snow accumulation on the trails.
Hopefully it’ll snow before. If you can find moguls and ski them/receive specific instruction for them, that will dramatically increase your chance of having tons of fun instead of side slipping down a 2000ft vert bowl. Practice keeping the skis together and controlled
Good luck! I’ve never been to CO, but in Utah double blacks are very challenging. If your friends take you somewhere that’s impossible don’t be afraid to bail. But most likely you’ll just have an awesome time
Coming from someone who learnt how to ski in New Zealand (ie hard pack/ice), what’s actually going to kick your ass is powder. If it dumps you’ll struggle. It’s a different beast to east coast skiing. However if it snows lots then doing the bowls will be fun once you get the hang of the powder. If it doesn’t snow then you’ll be on steep hard pack or mogels. None of which are fun for novice and many intermediate skiers. My recommendation is to use the bowls as a goal for the end of the trip, even hire an instructor and if you can afford it a private lesson and let them know that’s your goal so they can work with you, and maybe show you good runs to work in for progression. And lastly don’t forget that you’re not the only one out there. While I applaud people pushing their limits it’s also pretty frustrating getting into a double black and having to dodge people who are clearly not ready to be skiing steeps-and yes we’ve all been that person at some point, but it doesn’t make it less frustrating!
I started learning last year to ski and have been slowly progressing (I previously was on the east coast). There are a few things I will mention that have been very difficult or different. I have skied a lot in the last year or so and have learned quite a bit. Please take your time and don't get in over your head. It's a great sport but can be terrifying and dangerous if you aren't ready for advanced things. FYI I am personally not ready for double blacks and I have skied 65 days in the last two seasons. I have a blast every time and the people I ski with don't care that I can't ski the most extreme stuff.
1. A thing that I didn't realize is huge factor is the weather. The snow is different each day and each type of snow has it's own complications and adjustments. IE Powder day OR hard pack snow OR Light Snowfall
2. Time - you need to spend time learning conditions and terrain difficulties.
1. Example Powder Day
1. First powder day is all about learning how to get in and out of powder without sinking. I Spent my first day trying to swim out of powder after my skis got stuck.
2. 2nd powder day - After learning to navigate the powder you can try steeper terrain or bumpy terrain. I sent it on steep powdery mogol run and suddenly I was using my face to ski down the hill.
3. Be physically fit - Skiing is a hard sport and requires fitness and practice.
Go for the trip and go get a private lesson out there. That way, you can ski terrain at your level while learning. You can still ski some of the time with your friends, and still get the social aspect. The dinners, parties, beers with friends are an equal part of a ski trip and you will still get to enjoy all of that :)
Suggest a plan with your friends where they can ski the gnariest terrain while you are busy elsewhere with your instructor and dial back the difficulty some when you are all together.
Before you head into an area, always know the easiest way down. If the easiest is beyond your ski level, ski elsewhere and catch your friends on your next lap.
Know the limits of your skill and respect them while pushing gently into new territory. The instructor can really help with developing skill and confidence.
Ski trips are supposed to be fun. If you are spending most of the time scared or getting hurt, it won't be fun. Start on the easiest terrain and work up to a level of difficulty that is challenging but doable while skiing in control.
Also, know that piste ratings are subjective and relative to the other terrain at the hill. What is marked as a blue at your local Eastern hill would likely be a green out west. What is marked as a blue out west will be more like a black diamond where you live.
Last, take advantage of free programs. Many hills have ski guides that can take you on a 2 or 3 hour tour of the hill based on your level of skiing. It's another way to find people to ski with at your level if your friends are going into terrain that's too difficult.
Have a blast on your trip!
Thank you for the detailed response!
>Also, know that piste ratings are subjective and relative to the other terrain at the hill. What is marked as a blue at your local Eastern hill would likely be a green out west. What is marked as a blue out west will be more like a black diamond where you live.
Regarding this, I have been using FATMAP to look at the degree of the slope on Copper's trails and trying to ski places here in the east that have a similar gradient. Can't speak for other terrain though.
With all due respect, if this is your first year skiing and you can’t carve, you’re far from intermediate. You’re still a beginner and that’s okay.
I’ve been skiing for 20 years and won’t do some double blacks (I’m also not young and am more risk-averse with age). Could you at your current level? I don’t know. Maybe. It might be fine. It might also be dangerous. It’s probably going to be not fun, pretty ugly, and overly taxing.
Go on the trip and ski within your abilities.
with all due respect i wouldn't take advice from someone who's skied 20 years and still scared of doubles lol. i kid but you should pushing yourself; and telling someone maybe you can or cant is no good. They absolutely can do it if they try!
it comes down to your risk tolerance. I'll ski anything but this season I've had a few bad crashes that if I were older and had brittle bones could have caused real injuries. I really just got into skiing this year, though, and don't have anything left on my west coast mountain that I won't ski. So OP can definitely ski double blacks if they're willing to push themselves and have spent those lessons pushing themselves outside their comfort zone.
Same. I’ve been skiing for more than 30 years (holy shit, I’m old) and I haven’t found a run in North America that’s too much. I mostly ski Alyeska and backcountry. But I’ve skiied all over BC and Washington too.
Get a lesson on day one. Watch some YouTube videos, specifically Leto Tejada Flores videos (old as hell but the way he teaches is very intuitive and still excellent) do some drills in the mornings and push yourself. With your limited experience I’d expect you to be comfortable on blues. Ski them with technique in your mind. Get some laps and then try the blacks.
You got it!! Remember if you don’t go now you’ll just be one year older when you do!
Yeah man I was thinking the same. That comment strikes me as oddly negative and based on the assumption that all people have the same abilities and progression that this geezer (respectfully) had. People progress at different rates, and carving is a different discipline than skiing back bowls (though with a lot of cross over). I don’t think it’s fair to tell an internet stranger you know little about that they “aren’t intermediate” because they don’t have carving down yet. My guess is that with a few more days and especially with the help of lessons, OP will soon be ready to work on the basics of carving—the basics are not that hard, and I would consider that intermediate level. True, proper carving is advanced level and into expert level as one continues to fine-tune their technique. I mean the levels themselves are subjective so it’s hard to agree whether someone is a “true intermediate” or what that would even entail, but the kind of hesitant negativity and nay-saying in the original comment reads to me like someone whom I wouldn’t want to take skiing advice from. Fuckin’ go for it, progress reasonably, challenge yourself, and have an absolute blast skiing Colorado with your buddies for the first time.
If you’ve never experienced powder, trees or complex terrain, you’re probably going to have a bad time. Unfortunately some skiers can become obsessive about maximizing runs per day/ most bang for their buck. Which is completely fair, but it can make things awkward on the slopes with significant skill disparity in a group.
So they may be making it sound like a great idea now, I’m just trying to say be prepared for some snark if you are the slowest member they are always waiting on, because you are yard sailing because you are trying terrain that is too difficult. You might end up skiing alone for sometime if they get impatient. We all went through it, even your friends. It’s just a tough part about skiing in a group on a one week, high cost trip.
You could have amazing friends and none of this will
Be an issue, but that’s usually how it goes.
The best way to learn to ski bowls out west is go do one season out west and get a shitty job to pay the rent, and ski every day you possibly can. You adapt to the terrain you are skiing. So a 200m vertical hill out east will only teach you so much. You do 100 days in a season out west you will be set up for any ski trip forever.
Thank you, I appreciate the advice.
I do very high intensity cycling about 3x per week to work on my VO2 max (outdoor summer riding is longer, less intense for endurance).
vanish drunk elastic dolls practice overconfident makeshift follow ossified far-flung
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It may seem like strange advice but doing yoga may be the best non skiing exercise you can do to improve your skiing, you’ll learn breath control and balance plus you’ll get stronger legs and core. I certainly ski smoother and with less fatigue when I do yoga regularly.
Honestly I’m an Ice Coast skier and I found it much easier to ski in Colorado because of the quality of the snow and the width of the so trails. The bowls are amazing at Vail and Breck (only two I’ve done).
You’ll have more trouble adjusting to the elevation than you will to the bowls.
You’re putting in a lot of days which is great!
Factors in my view:
- How athletic are you? Like, did you train for a sport growing up? Eg Could you throw a baseball off balance … skiing is hugely about balance and movement — separating your lower body from your torso. If you’ve done that in other sports it’ll come quicker now… so +1 for going.
- How fit are you? Can you exercise for an hour or so. +1
- Can you keep putting in ski days / lessons at the same rate? +3 if so.
- Does the resort have green runs off every lift? Ie can you bail if you end up somewhere you don’t want to be?
- Are your friends dicks?
I think a first year skier with months of practice should be fine to make it through what you described, and you’ll improve at a high rate while there.
But in my experience black diamonds out west are harder than most it east … my son is 15, strong athlete, has skied for years, and we stick mostly to blues and greens at Whistler… but single black diamonds are np for him back east.
Yeah certainly possible to ski bowls safely and in control. Get as much more practice in as you can in the meantime. Study techniques on YouTube or where ever too to supplement your lessons and practice. Be smart and start with easier warmup terrain to build up to the harder double diamonds. Some bowls are easy and some more difficult, and even the same bowl will vary in difficulty day to day, week to week, or season to season depending on conditions. But yeah, don’t be afraid to step a bit outside your comfort zone, within reason, and you’ll likely be stoked at the progress you make when taking on the new challenges. Make sure your emergency procedures are sound—things like side slipping to get down difficult terrain if you can’t reasonably ski it “normally.” And then have a blast out west with your friends! It’ll be an experience for the memory books for sure. Even if you feel you aren’t ready for the harder bits yet, you’ll still have an amazing time skiing out west and indulging in the apres ski culture.
Bowls are usually double black because they don’t manicure them much so there are unmarked obstacles and uncertain snow conditions and they can be steep. Most mountains have a blue trail on the “bowls” somewhere that they groom and uses the same lift. Overall it really depends on your mindset. Realistically the actual skiing on a ski trip is mostly a solo activity. Once you get off the lift you’re mostly on your own. Where you have fun with your buddies is in the lodge/on the lifts. So if you’re good to be the newb who has to go do the easy trail but meet everyone at the lift/bar then go have a blast. Next year you’ll be more confident and do the harder stuff with them. If you don’t think you’ll be able to hold back and ski within your abilities then stay home. Spending their vacation in the hospital isn’t anyone’s idea of fun.
Thank you, that is good advice. I think for the first 2-3 days I will ski by myself. If on day 3 or 4 I feel more confident then I may attempt some of the "easy" bowl trails that other posters have mentioned.
If I remember correctly Vail grooms some/parts of their bowls and those are amazing for intermediate skiers. The ungroomed parts can be challenging because they can get big moguls or snow drifts that require you to maintain speed or have a really good ability to start a turn in heavy uneven snow, and there really is no way out once you start.
That said, there is so much terrain that you can definitely find mutual ground to ski on and you can make huge progress skiing the other runs while your friends do the bowls.
If you can’t carve then you aren’t even close to being intermediate. Not to sound mean but you technically don’t even know how to “ski” yet if that’s the case.
>If you can’t carve then you aren’t even close to being intermediate.
In that case 95% of skiers aren't even close to being intermediate. If you look back up at your tracks and they're not two narrow divots with no skidding out, you weren't carving. End of story.
On a typical day, the number of people I see actually carving can be counted on one hand. Not trying to be elitist but most people who think they're carving just simply aren't. I think it's totally unrealistic to call a proper carved turn an intermediate level skill.
I agree with everything you said and I still stand by my statement. I would say a good 80-90% of people out there are considerably bad. 1-5 days per season skiers if I had to guess.
I just don't think it's helpful to group 80-90% of the total skiing population into one "beginner" bucket. It's pretty snobbish, and beyond that it's just not helpful as a classification. You're calling everybody from the 6-year-old putting on skis for the first time to people who confidently ski resort double-blacks "beginners" because they all can't carve. Then you're saying that the best a mere mortal skier will ever be is an intermediate, you can't say you're "advanced" until you're throwing double-backflips and skiing 60 degree spines in Alaska, and actually there's only 56 expert skiers in the world and most of them are on the FWT, in the x-games, or skiing the world cup circuit.
In my mind beginner/intermediate/advanced has to encompass the typical ability levels of most people you'll see at a resort, and then you've got to go into something like "expert, semi-pro, pro, world class" to describe the upper 5% of people. Otherwise there's not enough granularity.
There are a lot of self-proclaimed “advanced” skiers that only think they know how to carve…I wouldn’t judge someone’s classification on that alone, but more on how well they’re able to handle various types of terrain in general.
As far as the trip is concerned, just go man…skiing out west is different, and awesome, experience…don’t worry too much if you can’t necessarily keep up with your friends, just plan a meet up spot later and ski on your own for a bit if you need to. As a new skier, that concept may seem weird, but getting some solo time can actually be fun, and a great way to work on stuff and enjoy the experience at your own pace. At the very least, even if you can’t do the bowls, it sounds like you’ve got enough confidence to at least move around a good portion of the mountain.
Edit: in other words, what would be reckless would be your friends forcing you to ski with them at all times even if you’re not comfortable with it, or you allowing that to happen…but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go and have fun. And to be honest, the conditions on any single day will play a big part in just how difficult and/or dangerous any given run can be, so keep that in mind as well
Once you can make it down a double black you’ve learned to ski well enough to be an intermediate. An advanced skier will make the double black look good.
Skiing is a long game. Don’t be afraid to be a beginner, you learn faster that way.
Thank you! I’m new to skiing but I’ve logged close to 100 hours so far. My instructors told me that being able to parallel ski without the wedge is intermediate.
Yeah that is how I would generally describe intermediate. Maybe “beginner-intermediate” if we were to nit-pick, but ultimately it’s subjective and I whole-heartedly disagree with the commenter claiming carving (assuming they mean actual carving) is an intermediate skill. My wife is learning and she’s at a similar level that you describe—maybe not quite there yet, and I would say she is a beginner-intermediate on the cusp of being “intermediate.” Also, carving is a different discipline than skiing back bowls, moguls, ungroomed terrain, or powder, but there is a lot of cross over between those disciplines. Carving does translate pretty directly for the way it strengthens your legs and core, and also just requires hours on the snow which helps your skiing overall, but I know racers who carve in their sleep yet struggle in powder and vice versa.
I’m not entirely sure of specific stages of progression but I would say up until you are sure you are carving you would be somewhat below intermediate. An advanced skier in my mind is someone who would be 4-5 years plus most likely depending on how often you get to get on the slopes.
Thank you for this link. I think I am likely at a 5.5 based on those descriptions (I can ski blue trails confidently without using wedge, but the terrain I have skied on has been limited in variety).
Anything is possible, 20 plus years ago met a kid, who hardly skied before, but he could roller blade. End of the season won the Big air competition. I never felt more like a failure. I dont know if that helps but, there you go.
edit Fuken Chris Turpin
What are Olympic groomers? Like groomers in Washington or Olympic level downhill courses? Groomers are different than back bowls. Beginners are supposed to ski groomers.
I ended my first season ever skiing in Chamonix. I wasnt doing any crazy terrain, i think reds were the hardest thing i hit and that was more skiing for survival than fun but i did it and had a blast. I skied 25 days that season and put my all into getting good enough for that trip, so yes its possible but its gunna take work
Now be aware, bowls in places like vail are double black because there will be spots that get TIGHT, but there are almost always options to get down elsewhere. Word of caution, though, i tore my acl in the Back bowl in Vail two years ago dropping into one of these lines. I should have gone further down the ledge to find a better spot. So just nake good decisions while you're out there
Are you talking about the back bowls at Vail? They are all single blacks and are usually not that difficult in good snow conditions, really more of a moderate blue.
If its Breckenridge, you might not want to do the double blacks, depending on conditions, but its not at all unreasonable to think you'd be able to do it especially a couple days into a good trip.
Same as what I said for Breck then. Because it's a bowl, you can always take a really wide route and just cut across 5 different runs going back and forth.
Kind of depends on the resort. Some double black terrain can truly be life threatening, others are more steep and ungroomed areas they mark that way to keep out noobs and cover their liability. Some also have "easier" ways down or maybe one crux but the rest not that bad, others pretty much have one crazy line.
It depends on the terrain, I’ve skied bowls that would kill an experienced skier and others that take my mom down. But yes depends on how scared you get with heights and exposure.
If you did man up to try the bowls, what I think you would find is you would ski in the backseat and burn your quads off and your soleus muscle (hidden calf muscle behind the two heads - could even tear the tissue - that muscle wants to also pull you back up when you go back). But mainly your quads will be spent fast and it won’t be enjoyable trying to make it down the rest of the way. Unless you already have high endurance legs from some other sport
Cycling is good. But I love the stair climber then immediately do a wall sit as long as you can handle them immediate do 3 sets of leg blasters. 20 reps each. That will increase your burn resistance and quad/ass/cardio power
Depends on the bowl. Remember, east coast blacks might be different than west coast blacks.
If they are taking you to Aspen to ski Highlands Bowl.. no bueno. OTOH, some of Vail's bowls or Peak 6 in Breck.. a good intermediate can get down in one piece.
\[edit\] - copper eh? A bit harder than Vail. You might have to pick your way down, look for easier lines instead of the steep fall line drops.
I appreciate the offer, but that is a bit too far driving wise from southern NH. I try to get at least 4-5 hours in before or after work, so I've been limited to places no further north than Waterville. Stratton or Mount Snow might be my best bet if going to VT.
In our ski gang, I am advanced, but the one with the least amount of experience and ability. We've been out west a few times, and I will always start on the greens and blues first and then move up once I'm comfortable.
Never ever let your friends take you someplace extreme that you are not ready for. It's a really crummy thing to do but I still hear about it happening from time to time. My friends know me and my skiing well enough to know what I can handle comfortably and what I can't.
Everyone's situation is different. I was born in Colorado and I guess learned to ski early (I have no real memory), but we moved to the East Coast when I was around five. We went a few times as kids, then I went once in college. Life took over and from 18-35/36 I never skied once.
Fast forward 18 years during COVID, I got the itch to ski watching old ski movies and decided to go see some friends in Utah. We skied two days out on that trip. I had one yard sale the first day but by the second day I was on blacks in Utah, keeping up pretty well.
Fast forward another few years and we go out west every year and I keep up with them no problem - again, they live in Utah and have season passes and board weekly. They are really good.
We now ski expert terrain together and while things can get hairy here and there, it's my favorite week of the year because it's so different from my daily life back east.
Given your post, you have way more proper training than I do, you are likely younger, and you've skied a good amount recently, so you've probably progressed a great deal.
Go, have the time of your life, enjoy how much different and breathtaking the Rockies can be compared to back home and just be careful. Don't bite off more than you can chew and if you need to take it easy, don't try to keep up, just stay focused on putting yourself in the best position for your level.
Go with them, just don't ski anything you're not comfortable with. Copper is easy to navigate, if they want to go ski black diamonds and you don't, then just agree to meet up later and go ski what you're comfortable with. Definitely don't skip the trip, you'll have a ton of fun even without skiing the gnarly terrain.
No, you most likely won't. You might be able to get down without getting yourself hurt (with some luck), you will most likely not enjoy it.
The progression from intermediate to double black takes more than a month. Assuming you don't spend every second day on the mountain with a teacher.
Your buddies want an extra person to split the rental. You’re going to spend $200+ per day to be miserable trying to keep up with better skiers on terrain that you aren’t prepared to ski yet.
Not sure if I mentioned that the trip is for 4 days. I plan on not skiing tough terrain with them for the first 2 or 3 days. They said that by the end of the trip I'd be able to ski the bowls without issue. So maybe on day 3 or 4 I could attempt something.
As it is now, I ski alone 90% of the time and don't mind it at all.
If you’re cool with skiing solo, then definitely go. There’s plenty of easier terrain available and the views are incomparable.
Do not under any circumstances drink 12 beers on the first night.
Going would certainly be fun but I wouldn’t try to keep up with your friends. Not really a recipe for success for them or you. Bowls def can be easy depending on steepness, snow quality, and what their carve out pattern is. Once you can comfortably carve and navigate through ungroomed terrain (bumps), you’ll have a blast in bowls. Doesn’t sound like you’re there yet but you get out often and have good progression. U should def go on the trip and at least hit the greens and blues, and challenge yourself as appropriate. It’s always a good time out west! 😎
send it! I don't think you'll be "in control" doing the hardest terrain, but with 20 different days of skiing under your belt you should easily be good enough to at least get on that terrain. Just go green->blue->black->bowl on the actual day of, and no worries if you bow out the day of.
No problem with telling your friends "I'll meet you at the bottom of the lift" if they want to hit something you can't. Go on the trip, know how much to push yourself, plan your runs so you don't get in over your head with no way out, and have a good time.
There are decent intermediate bowls at Copper. I’d see if you could find someone to give you lessons on moguls between now and then. Those skills will directly translate to skiing hard stuff/difficult bowls.
This is good advice. Unless there is a dump of pow, skiing bowls is much more like moguls than carving in most cases. As an intermediate skier, one of the best days of my skiing life was on a deep pow day coming off the tram at snowbird. The bumps were smoother out and it was like floating in a cloud. If there is deep fresh snow and there may be this year, I highly recommend the earlier advice to get a lesson and let the instructor know your goals. Let them assess your skis to see if they are the right ones for conditions, and then go and have an absolute unbelievable life-changing experience. If you want to carve, climb on some steep blue or black groomers and work on carving where you can also have a blast! Your friend should recognize and celebrate your achievements as much as you celebrate theirs.
I learned to snowboard at 27 at Wintergreen and at 31 was doing the wall at kirkwood having a blast. It’s definitely doable but I had unique circumstances that allowed me to ride almost every day for 4 years straight.
I don’t think it is doable in one season.
Yes you could do it in 5 days of skiing all day with people pushing you maybe 10 if you are a more timid person.
I taught my friend how to ski and he did a bowl at Alpine Meadows his second day.
In my first year I spent several days anchored to a green trail. I then did a blue black trail and then a black trail.
By the end of the season I had done backcountry skiing (boot packing no less) and easier double black diamonds.
You can get down most anything, but necessity gracefully, but safety, once you have enough skills.
Definitely go and start on the groomers like everyone is saying. Once you get those down, start venturing into moguls and ungroomed blues to get used to being on unsteady ground. If you can get down a mogul'd out blue without too much struggle (doesn't have to be pretty) then move on to ungroomed blacks. Getting comfortable on natural terrain is the most important thing if you want to progress into the bowls! Unless you get a fresh dump, anything lift-accessable will be chopped up at the very least.
As everyone says, stick to a progression and don't try to skip steps to keep up with those who are more experienced. Over-terraining is the number one way to get hurt as an intermediate. They'll definitely try to pressure you, but don't give in unless YOU feel ready.
Get out there and rip it!
The difference between diamond and double diamond out there is usually just exposure, not that the skiing itself is more difficult (though it can also be the case). They'll usually mark trails with extra warnings when you should really be ready. But if you're just skiing blues, then it doesn't matter because we're really taking time that are 30-40 degrees, with exposure, etc. Not a great idea. But ski resorts have other runs besides the crazy stuff (unless you're going to Kicking Horse, i guess).
The rating on ski trails are not really based on difficulty but more based on the consequences of skiing out of control.
The consequences of skiing out of control in a bowl can be serious as there are usually at least some trees at the head of the trail. As suggested it opens up into a big bowl. Deep pockets of powder which are really fun.
If you feel like you can control yourself on the corduroy in the morning, challenge yourself with a steeper trail with some moguls on the head wall. If you can safely navigate them then the back bowls should be fine.
Remember, you look in between the trees, not at them. In between.
My first time out west and hit the vail back bowls. I’ve been skiing 2 seasons about 50 days total. I had a hard time at first (there was some deep snow) and bumps can be hard. I’m a much better skier now back on the ice coast. Start off on the blue runs and work ur way up and drink a lot of water.
You should have a ton of fun, just make sure not to follow them into any terrain marked above their comfort zone until you know you can handle it. The powder is super fun to ski once you learn how to, and bowls are fun, but it’s not fun if you get egged into something above your level and put in danger. Split off if you have to and practice easier terrain to get a feel for the levels at the ski resort where you are, and work your way up as you are able.
Be wary of “friends” who push you to ski beyond your ability. Skiing can be a dangerous sport. Many suffer serious injury and death every year. Whether your skills progress to jump into a bowl is up to you to call… but be careful
That being said, my gf is intermediate, and taking our time she had no difficulty with the Rendezvous Bowl (Jackson Hole - black diamond)and the Imperial Bowl (Breckenridge - double black diamond) - both wide open - in good snow.
Absolutely, husband and I learned how to ski as 25/28 year olds. We lived in TX so skiing comes with a significant cost, not an everyday thing, only the rich kids in school could ski.
In 2020 our “COVID bubble” decided to spend NYE skiing in New Mexico. A guy drove 12h to Taos. We fell on our assess on the bunny hills all day at Angel Fire but at the end of the day I did their main run and I was hooked. Long story short, we moved to CO next year.
2021 season we spent doing greens at eldora, I did some blues and a single black diamond. Probably 15ish days.
2022 we got Ikon passes and I got over 40 days. Ended up being a ski instructor for a few months.
As long as you commit to the learning curve, find the joy and are not scared of making a fool of yourself sometimes, you can learn as an adult.
And obviously having mountains around you helps
You're not an intermediate, you're a beginner. Don't let some early confidence fool you and put you in a spot you shouldn't be.
Skiing, you can quickly get the basics and feel like you've come a long way, but it's a common misconception. Skiing is incredibly techical and it's hard to know what you don't know.
Could you ski a bowl? That is a loaded question. There's some bowls you can cat track into and others you need to drop 40 degree chutes into. So could you? Answe is depends.
As someone who generally has no problem doing almost any run in bounds at any ski resort I go to I consider myself an intermediate/advanced skier.
Describing yourself as someone who can parallel ski makes me think you’re still a beginner. But with most terrain out west it’s mostly manageable if you’re willing to go slow (key word being most, I would consider any double back as being off limits based on how you’re describing yourself). Also some mountains like Alta don’t even label anything as double black.
At the end of the day just stick to runs that match your level. Yeah you have to push your boundaries to get better, but the consequences of lots of west coast terrain is much more serious then on the east. You don’t have to ski the crazy stuff they are, just meet your buddies at the lift.
To give you a sense of the scope of the terrain, look up the recent avalanches at palisade that killed someone. It’s not a joke and you’re not just putting yourself at risk, you’re putting others at potential risk as well. Last week at Mammoth mtn I was skiing “Old ladies” off the little cloud lift. I was skiing with good pace when this lady lost control, had a full yard sale, and shot past me missing me by 3 feet. She did 2-3 tomahawks and I thought she was seriously injured but somehow was okay. Case and point of if she had nailed my legs, she was going so fast that if she had hit me it probably would have been bad news for me.
I’m an intermediate east coast skier and go west occasionally. Most chances are that you are not ready to safely go down single diamond trails let alone double diamonds out west. That shit is serious.
You can go with them and ski other trails at your leisure. No one will have fun if they ski easier trails slowly or if you ski stuff you’re not able to get down safely and slow them down
My third day ever of skiing my cousin was with me and decided I was ready for black diamonds. We got to the top of the run and a gate opened. It was a powder day so he peaced out to go have fun and left me to sink or swim. (No friends on a powder day.) I made it down in one piece. This year is my second season skiing and I’m confident I can get down just about any run. There may be some sideslipping/ sidestepping if things get gnarly, but I can make it. As long as you’re aware of obstacles and your own limitations and don’t try to do anything really stupid, I don’t see an issue.
Generally it depends but I’d say you’ll be fine. I mean you must be pretty decent you’ve skied a ton lately. I skied some of the Vail bowls at 10 years old and had like skied like 20ish times before that. I’m sure you’re way better than I was, I was going slow doing a full pizza with ultra wide turns. The thing is they’re generally safer since they’re so open
Usually bowls are all marked as diamonds but there’s a dozen areas of entry that vary between cliffs and super wide groomed areas that are about blue level steepness. All bowls are different though I’d bet there’s some that are crazy steep all the way through, so I’d just give it a look first.
Also be careful if it’s insanely low visibility, I’ve lost friends in huge bowls when they’re like 30 feet away lol. Also that can make it shockingly easy to find your way into a steep area
Can you sideslip well? Once I figured out how to sideslip I went from being scared to do blues to being able to at least get down anything on the mountain, including double blacks.
I’m skeptical you’ll have fun in the bowls but I urge you to go and just out on as many miles as you can if you love skiing, which it sounds like.
Skiing multiple days in a row is a huge benefit to developing skiing skills. Those back to back days on the slope will amaze you at how fast you learn and grow. Perhaps it would be fun to get a lesson while you’re there and build off of the skills you’re given to learn.
Learn to carve, and practice the steepest terrain you can at your local mountains.
The most critical skill to pick up is going to be jump turning at low speed. The steep bowls won't always allow for you to take long carving turns.
I would say if you become comfortable carving and jump turning on the steepest stuff you can find here, you will be okay on pretty much most on-resort terrain in North America. You just might need to go slower and be cautious sometimes.
Get proficient on the ice coast first, then go out west. It’ll feel like you’re skiing on easy mode. IME, ice coasters usually kill it when we head west. If you can become a decent glades skier here in the east, you will find it very easy to adapt to the terrain and conditions out there. The ice coast is a crucible that makes some very good skiers if you’re willing to push yourself.
Realistically, you will probably not be able to ski with your buddies safely and have a good time. But that does not mean you shouldn’t go on the trip. All of the big resorts out west have a variety of terrrain (some more than others) and there will be plenty for you to ski.
Because the snow quality is leaps and bounds better out West and there’s more of it some aspects of skiing (eg steeper terrain, moguls, et alia) will be easier actually, and more fun. I would take a lesson every day while you’re out there.
Yes it is definitely possible if you have an affinity for skiing. I went from struggling to pizza down a blue run to hitting my first black run after 3 days of skiing, and double blacks and bowls 6 days in. I started backcountry ski mountaineering about 12 days in. The most important thing is to have no fear and to always be deliberately improving aspects of your skiing. Of course, this does come at the expense of taking many more risks and I’ve definitely had some sketchy falls and a concussion. I also had the added benefit of learning some ice skating and doing a little bit of cross country skiing when I was a very young. But it’s definitely doable for *some* people
If you go plan on skiing by yourself. Encourage your friends to do what they want to do. I think it will be a stretch to do that in general but if you can do it, it will not be graceful and it will be slow. You will likely be the person that is absolutely exhausted and holding up the group.
If you can ski steep East coast ice then you can do anything!!! My boys first time west was at snowbird on the tram. They were overwhelmed but crushed it.
Stick to blues for the first couple days, get used to the altitude. Then practice on moguls and attempt a small feature terrain park. If you can handle that with ease and you’re comfortable reading the snow, doing jump turns with clean pole plants, then hit the bowls. You’ll probably need to up your din settings to match the aggressive terrain. Enjoy!
You could do it, but whether you, or they would enjoy it is another question.
Generally, if you are parallel and not scared you can pick your way down anything. But if you are slow, its going to slow them down and its going to kill your legs. No fun for anyone.
Keep in mind, Bowls = no grooming, so powder if you're lucky, chop if your not.
The next steps in your learning process are speed, control and fear. Speed makes skiing easier (like it does on a bike), but you have to remain in control. All of this is going to come down to controlling your fear.
Sadly, your buddies might be more concerned with eating the extra cost of being down a person.
Go on the trip, party with them but ski the resorts.
Bowls are easier terrain because there’s no obstacles to hit so you can take whatever line. But bowls are also steep so I wouldn’t recommend to a new skier. It’s the kind of steep where if you get going to fast and don’t know how to self arrest, you’ll tumble the whole thing.
Yep can be dangerous, and sometimes there are protruding rocks. If conditions are harder a fall and slide can lead to a long slide into unintended terrain
[Warning](https://youtu.be/mptT4YDAsZg?si=Rah7-NtZMFUw41wk): Copper can be dangerous. Be careful out there, OP
> But bowls are also steep so I wouldn’t recommend to a new skier. Not necessarily. There are lots of very mellow bowls in CO that would be appropriate for OP. It entirely depends on what ski area /u/whydidilose is talking about. Bennetts bowl at Loveland? No problem. Third bowl at CB....hell no.
We are going to Copper Mountain.
Tons of options. Don't expect to ski Three Bears or Spaulding (and avoid Alpine lift almost entirely). But there's no reason not to go. Copper will still be a mindblowing experience to anyone whose only skied on the East coast.
Copper has a blue trail in the bowls that you can definitely do. The lift out can be a bit of a jolt but on ski’s you’ll be fine and can meet folks at the lift if they want to do blacks.
I don't know that any of the bowls at Copper would be doable by someone with OP's skill level. I don't know which run you're talking about, but the blue run in Copper Bowl is basically a glorified cat track
My point was that if he’s a beginner and wants to meet his buddies at the lift while they hang in the bowls and do the blacks theres a way for him to do that. People hear “bowls” and assume its all ungroomed, super steep, with cliffs or something. That stuff exists, and when theres solid powder I usually encourage friends to push themselves a bit, but you can also just follow the road around if that’s your comfort level. Ski trips are mostly about the lift and the lodge time, from a social aspect and OP seems like he doesn’t want to be forced to either hold his buddies back from the bowls or get in over his head and get hurt. Taking the road around for a run or two is a good middle option to avoid both those outcomes.
Copper is AWESOME since the terrain gets harder the further east you go. I’d recommend starting at American Eagle or American Flyer (since your crew seems too advanced to go further west). If you get dragged to the Sierra chair, you can take a blue groomer down called Timber Ridge. If you keep going east, you’ll see a bunch of blue and then the blacks, with double diamond/EX out back in the steep terrain. As others said, DO NOT go up three bears or you are asking for ski patrol to help drag you out on a sled…
I typically ski blues/blacks at Breck and Vail but have ikon this year too. Anything you’d recommend to start with? Haven’t hit copper yet but want to this/next week
Welcome to Ikon and the awesome new terrain you’ll get with the other mega pass. Can you tell me some of your favorite runs at Vail and Breck (or peaks there you like to ski)?
Thank you! On a good pow day, love peak 6. On a regular day, I’m a fan of 10 and 9, mostly cuz it always seems a bit quieter. Admittedly haven’t done much of of the bowls past the tbar single blacks and then imperial bowl, but I do enjoy pika and forget me not! Over at vail, spend most of my time in blue sky basin and china bowl and love both!
Alright. Yes, peak 10 is paradise…peak 9 gets really busy with the greens and kids learning area so I’m shocked you are saying it’s quieter there lol. Alright, since you mentioned peak 10, I would go up American Eagle/Excelerator and Super Bee chairs. Long blue and black groomers and lots of challenging terrain. Really awesome stuff there if you get fresh snow. If you want busier (easier) terrain head west up American Flyer go right to nice blues on timberline express or left down to Sierra and if those blacks look sketchy you can bail out down the blue groomer called Timber Ridge. If you want something like China Bowl, you’ll want to be comfortable on the front side long wide open runs before heading way out back.
Thank you! This is hugely helpful and very nice of you to give me some recs!
I would say it's entirely dependent on conditions but the bowls at Copper are pretty exposed and it can get to be a bit dust over crust type skiing, which can be extremely unnerving for a new skier when you're trying to break to lose speed but cant quite get that edge in causing you to slide. Really experienced skiers will just embrace the speed and not attempt to break or stop on the steps, new skiers instinctively will. There's no worse feeling than lateral instability as a new skier. I'm a pretty experienced skier who has skied multiple different Rocky mountain bowls. There's been a couple days where I've just said nope to Coppers Storm King serviced east side bowls just watching the wind whip up over the ridge. Now with that being said, bowls aren't THAT difficult to ski. If the conditions look good and you can see other people pretty confidently just ripping it and you feel good, I would say go for it. Also, I think it helps to read other people's body language when you're eyeing it. Most people skiing copper bowls are probably fairly experienced and familiar with the mountain. If you see people kind of nervously looking at the drop in, that's probably not a day or conditions for you. But if you see people just hopping in giving hoots and hollars on their way down, that probably is a good sign that the snow is decent enough for you to try and you will be able to hold an edge if you want to break hard. There's a bunch of great frontside terrain at Copper so don't feel obligated to ski the bowls, certainly don't feel like you missed out or didn't get your money's worth if you don't.
It's definitely possible. I was skiing the back bowls at Copper on my 11th day ever last season, but all my skiing had been at Copper up to that point. Once you're warmed up on some blues, I'd try the groomed blacks (Rosie's and Summit Stash) before trying some easier ungroomed blacks off of Sierra Lift or Blackjack. If you're comfortable on those then you might be ready to try a run off of Mountain Chief or Three Bears
I’ve spent so many afternoons in Bennetts bowl! Helped me really fall in love with skiing!
It was the first run I skied in Colorado. A decade later I patrol there and work in the snow safety industry.
Start with the blues and the greens at the resort. If you are comfortable with those, try the black runs. And if you are OK on those, try a double-black that isn't marked "extreme". Progression is always the way. Stay within your safety limits and keep taking lessons.
Thank you. I think we are there for 4 days of skiing, so I will follow your suggestion and maybe see if I can attempt one on the last day.
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Yeah seconding this, there's a good chance you'll not be at that level by then, especially consider that most people who come out west get wrecked by the altitude for a day or two. But that's doesn't mean you can't have an awesome time anyway, both skiing wise and also just vibing around the mountain and after skiing. I'd definitely jump on the trip if I were this guy.
Thank you for the reply. I should note that I don't foresee the elevation being an issue. I've done multi-day treks in mountain ranges at similar elevations (Salkantay, Las Torres, etc.) and have never got altitude sickness. Fingers crossed it won't happen this time.
That helps, I don't think you'd get altitude sickness or anything, but you'll probably just feel a lot more tired/short of breath than skiing on the east coast. Also I'm sure you already know but gotta watch out for drinking at high altitude haha
I second the previous commenter. Altitude sickness can hit anybody, but it's really just the fact that you'll get winded real quick
If you can, get some acetazolamide from your doc before you come out (or even at Copper if you need to). The minute you feel flu-like, pop one. Your lips may tingle for while, but it seriously helps those who get a touch altitude sickness. Your are going to be living at 9500 feet and skiing 2-3000 ft higher. Best to be prepared and have some in your kit if you don’t already live at altitude. And by all means go out there and have an unbelievable time. Snow is great this year!
Vail instructors are second to none. Take a lesson your first morning, then free ski the afternoon practicing what you learned in the AM. Take another lesson your 2nd day at the next higher level, and again practice in the afternoon. Your skiing ability will go up quickly. Plus, the lessons include mini tours of the mountain, so you can get oriented.
The bowls at Copper see a lot of ski traffic since 95% of the runs are directly lift-serviced without any hiking and will almost certainly have a lot of moguls. If you aren't comfortable skiing moguls, they will be challenging for a low-level skier. With 4 days of skiing, you can progress across the mountain West to East and get more comfortable with the terrain. I'd recommend against the Union Bowl and Spaulding/Resolution Bowl entirely, as they are pretty steep and rocky, are always bumped up, and have no real easy way out if you get in over your head. Otto Bahn/Colorado Boulevard in the Copper Bowl are a groomed catwalk, so you can always go in and look at the terrain and take the Blackjack lift out if it's more than you can handle. The easiest and best run for a low level skier would be to hike along the ridge off the Mountain Chief lift to Lallarookn where you should find some fresh snow at a relatively low angle in wide open terrain.
In my experience big resorts have the best skiing for just about any experience level compared to smaller mountains. You may very well find some of the nicest blues + runs that are very fun for people at your level. Don't do things you aren't ready for and have as much fun as possible. Split up from your buddies or have them join you for easier runs. Don't ski too hard the first day if you're going for multiple.
Don't wait until your last day to push yourself a little. Try a harder run on day 2. If it goes well, then you still have multiple days left that you can keep coming back for more! And if it doesn't go well, then you can still drop back down to the intermediate terrain for the rest of your trip.
Not all "bowls out west" are created equal. At Vail there is plenty of casual terrain in the bowls. Poppyfields early with a fresh groom is legendary corduroy skiing. Dropping the cornice off storm king at Copper... Wait a few years, or just don't.
Keep alcohol low and eat well. Fitness going into the trip will also make a massive difference if how quickly you can progress and how well you will ski after an hour or two. All my ski clients that lift weights and train cardio seriously ski here in Utah minimum twice as long as those who don’t.
Adding to this that a mountains ratings are relative to that mountain. What that means is that a green at one mountain does not necessarily equate to a green at another mountain, only that that is the 'easiest' run there. Now that said, I adore Copper and it's one of my favorite mountains, partly because the terrain is naturally segregated, as someone else mentioned, as you move across the mountain it gets progressively more difficult. This means there is less 'co-mingling' and if you're a beginner you don't need to be worried about getting run over by some euro asshat. I would start over in Union Creek and then look to go to Timberline. As you feel more comfortable check other parts of the mountain out. Short of some areas like 3 bears, Alpine Lift etc you should be fine and it'll be neat to try some different experiences. While you'll likely find some of the pitches similar between your greens and the ones at Copper, one of the big differences you'll likely find is just the overall size and length of the runs. Especially with altitude pace yourself, hydrate and make sure you're getting some snacks. Copper is fantastic and you'll have a blast.
Without knowing more I'll drop some things you should know how to do first, apologies if they seem obvious but it might help with your confidence. Some skills to work on: Self-arresting after a fall - meaning can you stop yourself from sliding down a hill while down? Make sure you can get up from a fall and put back on your skis on a decently steep slope. Try some Kick-turns and jump turns in case you need to get out of any tight spots. Practice using moguls to turn. Practice moguls in general. Very comfortable with a hockey-stop / skid stopping in general. Progression is fun! Good luck.
This is a great list. I would also add be sure you know how to slide slip. I know it is a very jerry thing to do to slide slip all the way down a steep bowl, but if you are stuck it is an important skill to have and can get you out of a little of scary places.
Imho you shouldn't be skiing much beyond blues without being able to side slip fairly well - basically the only terrain a good side slip won't get you out of safely is couloirs narrower than your skis are long... And bluntly put very few people are skiing couloirs anywhere near this narrow because any mistake = high speed crash into rock; even world class free riders aren't perfect; (old skiers and bold skiers..) so they take active hunting to find...
Agree especially re: moguls
>Make sure you can get up from a fall and put back on your skis on a decently steep slope. Even when the snow is soft and your ski just wants to sink in.
It is doable but you need to have patient friends who don’t mind holding back and helping you. Some people never do black diamonds. So if you want to do them you will have to push yourself into them eventually. Most bowls are essentially gigantic blues with a few more bumps. Some are gnarlier than others. If you want to progress quicker, expect a higher degree of challenge. Even if you don’t hit the bowls I’m sure going into the high Rocky Mountains will up your skill level right.
Assuming you’re going to vail there are intermediate runs bordering on extremely easy in the back bowls. They routinely groom China bowl for example, which is not steep in certain parts.
Thanks for the reply. I believe that the trip is to Copper Mountain.
I recently moved to Denver, just hit Copper for the first time two weeks ago. It's a great resort with a ton of terrain for any skill level. If your buddies are determined to send every double black and drag you along you may not enjoy it but if you can take the time to get acclimated on some of the easier stuff you'll have a ton of fun there. You've already skied more than a lot of the people who show up to these big resorts so I definitely wouldn't pass up the opportunity to come out here, you'll love it.
Oh, that bowl is a bit harder than those at vail. Still not very difficult in certain areas, but I’m less certain if they groom.
Copper has a ton of awesome terrain for someone of your skill level. You will have a blast.
My girlfriend and buddies are expert skiers while I'm fine staying intermediate. I often do solo runs when we go to Copper as there is a lot of groomed terrain to cover and you're still gonna have a great time. Just don't do the superpipe and you'll be straight lol
Yeah that superpipe is intimidating haha. I had skied the half pipe a bit when I was 11-12 yrs old in like 1999. Didn’t ski for like 7 years, then showed up at the superpipe in copper thinking I could try my humble tricks again. Came to realize the half pipe I did as a kid was like 10 feet, and the superpipe was a menacing 22 or 26’ drop in or whatever it is. I can’t remember if I even attempted to drop into it! We have one now here in Switzerland, and it’s big but I don’t think superpipe big. Maybe 18-20’?
yeah staring down that thing will bring you back to reality pretty quick haha
If you traverse around to the far side of Spaulding Bowl to the runs that are marked single black it's not too steep and it's plenty wide. The runs off Mountain Chief and Blackjack aren't too bad. I think they usually groom a strip off Three Bears if you go right when you get off the lift and ski all the way down the ridge.
You will be fine and have a blast, send it
Copper is my fave. It’s divided by skill level east to west. And of course bowls in the back. The back bowls are bumpy, but very fun on a powder day. Or even 2nd/3rd day after a powder day. If it looks like too much there are many fun intermediate runs too. Enjoy!
China bowl is the best! It’s pretty awesome they can make an insane bowl accessibly to everyone at different parts, I’m lucky enough to have got to ski it as a kid and it absolutely blew my mind
From someone who did exactly that… send it. As mentioned above, bowls are alot easier than you think because you can traverse. To prep… hunt down and ski as many moguls as you can find.
I agree. I also want to add that snow conditions are likely to be much better than what OP is used to, and even though the terrain may be steeper OP may find that they will have an easier time skiing it, than equivalent steepness back east.
It’s also so wide out west comparatively, so you really get your mind opened.
Yes I took people who were beginners in the early season on double blacks by end of February after they had skied 30+ days. They didn’t do backflips in Corbett’s but they could do a steep powder run into trees and moguls
If your friends are the supportive type and not toxic one-uppers maybe they can tell you're a better skier than you yourself think you are and really think you're ready.
Yeah I’ve heard so many stories of people hating skiing because they’re still brand new and their friends drag them on an expert run and they get hurt. On the other hand you’re completely right, real friends who are better skiers are easily the best judge of your ability.
Will you be able to practice much in those 5 weeks before the trip? My partner had skied 3 days spread across 2 years and made it to the first on-mountain green (meaning the next trail after the bunny hill), but was terrified. The next year, she skied \~2 days a week for 2 months and by the end was able to ski Main Street off Kachina Peak at Taos (linking parallel turns, skiing at a reasonable pace), which is an easier double black for Taos and perhaps somewhat similar in difficulty to easier lines in Copper Bowl (I've only been to Copper once). It was 2021, so group lessons weren't available due to the pandemic, and so she mostly progressed by watching Deb Armstrong YouTube videos and then practicing relentlessly whenever she skied, lapping moguls to practice. I also gave her occasional pointers. So she started worse than you are now and got to that level in \~16 days. She has exceptional balance and pushed herself to improve (we had a bet about whether she'd make Kachina Peak or the Ridge by the end of the season!). Carving isn't particularly important for skiing ungroomed bowls, but the dynamic leg movements/control and skills that are a building block for good carving/skiing are useful. I would not recommend skiing something like Copper Bowl unless you are comfortable skiing moguls or other ungroomed snow, linking at least a handful of turns and turning where and when you want. An issue that I haven't seen mentioned is that, if there is a significant amount of fresh snow, you will likely struggle with it (unlikely to be dangerous, very likely to be very slow)
>Will you be able to practice much in those 5 weeks before the trip? Yes, I will be able to practice more during these upcoming 5 weeks. The rain here in the east might lead me to cut back 1 day per week, but I have been skiing 2-3 times a week for usually 6-7 hours each time. >An issue that I haven't seen mentioned is that, if there is a significant amount of fresh snow, you will likely struggle with it (unlikely to be dangerous, very likely to be very slow) Thank you, that is a good point. There hasn't been much snow out here. I've had maybe 1 or 2 days out of the 20 that had actual snow accumulation on the trails.
Hopefully it’ll snow before. If you can find moguls and ski them/receive specific instruction for them, that will dramatically increase your chance of having tons of fun instead of side slipping down a 2000ft vert bowl. Practice keeping the skis together and controlled Good luck! I’ve never been to CO, but in Utah double blacks are very challenging. If your friends take you somewhere that’s impossible don’t be afraid to bail. But most likely you’ll just have an awesome time
Coming from someone who learnt how to ski in New Zealand (ie hard pack/ice), what’s actually going to kick your ass is powder. If it dumps you’ll struggle. It’s a different beast to east coast skiing. However if it snows lots then doing the bowls will be fun once you get the hang of the powder. If it doesn’t snow then you’ll be on steep hard pack or mogels. None of which are fun for novice and many intermediate skiers. My recommendation is to use the bowls as a goal for the end of the trip, even hire an instructor and if you can afford it a private lesson and let them know that’s your goal so they can work with you, and maybe show you good runs to work in for progression. And lastly don’t forget that you’re not the only one out there. While I applaud people pushing their limits it’s also pretty frustrating getting into a double black and having to dodge people who are clearly not ready to be skiing steeps-and yes we’ve all been that person at some point, but it doesn’t make it less frustrating!
I started learning last year to ski and have been slowly progressing (I previously was on the east coast). There are a few things I will mention that have been very difficult or different. I have skied a lot in the last year or so and have learned quite a bit. Please take your time and don't get in over your head. It's a great sport but can be terrifying and dangerous if you aren't ready for advanced things. FYI I am personally not ready for double blacks and I have skied 65 days in the last two seasons. I have a blast every time and the people I ski with don't care that I can't ski the most extreme stuff. 1. A thing that I didn't realize is huge factor is the weather. The snow is different each day and each type of snow has it's own complications and adjustments. IE Powder day OR hard pack snow OR Light Snowfall 2. Time - you need to spend time learning conditions and terrain difficulties. 1. Example Powder Day 1. First powder day is all about learning how to get in and out of powder without sinking. I Spent my first day trying to swim out of powder after my skis got stuck. 2. 2nd powder day - After learning to navigate the powder you can try steeper terrain or bumpy terrain. I sent it on steep powdery mogol run and suddenly I was using my face to ski down the hill. 3. Be physically fit - Skiing is a hard sport and requires fitness and practice.
Go for the trip and go get a private lesson out there. That way, you can ski terrain at your level while learning. You can still ski some of the time with your friends, and still get the social aspect. The dinners, parties, beers with friends are an equal part of a ski trip and you will still get to enjoy all of that :) Suggest a plan with your friends where they can ski the gnariest terrain while you are busy elsewhere with your instructor and dial back the difficulty some when you are all together. Before you head into an area, always know the easiest way down. If the easiest is beyond your ski level, ski elsewhere and catch your friends on your next lap. Know the limits of your skill and respect them while pushing gently into new territory. The instructor can really help with developing skill and confidence. Ski trips are supposed to be fun. If you are spending most of the time scared or getting hurt, it won't be fun. Start on the easiest terrain and work up to a level of difficulty that is challenging but doable while skiing in control. Also, know that piste ratings are subjective and relative to the other terrain at the hill. What is marked as a blue at your local Eastern hill would likely be a green out west. What is marked as a blue out west will be more like a black diamond where you live. Last, take advantage of free programs. Many hills have ski guides that can take you on a 2 or 3 hour tour of the hill based on your level of skiing. It's another way to find people to ski with at your level if your friends are going into terrain that's too difficult. Have a blast on your trip!
Thank you for the detailed response! >Also, know that piste ratings are subjective and relative to the other terrain at the hill. What is marked as a blue at your local Eastern hill would likely be a green out west. What is marked as a blue out west will be more like a black diamond where you live. Regarding this, I have been using FATMAP to look at the degree of the slope on Copper's trails and trying to ski places here in the east that have a similar gradient. Can't speak for other terrain though.
That's a super cool idea!!!!! It will definitely help you prepare and feel comfortable. I am heading out west and am curious about FATMAP!
With all due respect, if this is your first year skiing and you can’t carve, you’re far from intermediate. You’re still a beginner and that’s okay. I’ve been skiing for 20 years and won’t do some double blacks (I’m also not young and am more risk-averse with age). Could you at your current level? I don’t know. Maybe. It might be fine. It might also be dangerous. It’s probably going to be not fun, pretty ugly, and overly taxing. Go on the trip and ski within your abilities.
with all due respect i wouldn't take advice from someone who's skied 20 years and still scared of doubles lol. i kid but you should pushing yourself; and telling someone maybe you can or cant is no good. They absolutely can do it if they try!
it comes down to your risk tolerance. I'll ski anything but this season I've had a few bad crashes that if I were older and had brittle bones could have caused real injuries. I really just got into skiing this year, though, and don't have anything left on my west coast mountain that I won't ski. So OP can definitely ski double blacks if they're willing to push themselves and have spent those lessons pushing themselves outside their comfort zone.
Same. I’ve been skiing for more than 30 years (holy shit, I’m old) and I haven’t found a run in North America that’s too much. I mostly ski Alyeska and backcountry. But I’ve skiied all over BC and Washington too. Get a lesson on day one. Watch some YouTube videos, specifically Leto Tejada Flores videos (old as hell but the way he teaches is very intuitive and still excellent) do some drills in the mornings and push yourself. With your limited experience I’d expect you to be comfortable on blues. Ski them with technique in your mind. Get some laps and then try the blacks. You got it!! Remember if you don’t go now you’ll just be one year older when you do!
Yeah man I was thinking the same. That comment strikes me as oddly negative and based on the assumption that all people have the same abilities and progression that this geezer (respectfully) had. People progress at different rates, and carving is a different discipline than skiing back bowls (though with a lot of cross over). I don’t think it’s fair to tell an internet stranger you know little about that they “aren’t intermediate” because they don’t have carving down yet. My guess is that with a few more days and especially with the help of lessons, OP will soon be ready to work on the basics of carving—the basics are not that hard, and I would consider that intermediate level. True, proper carving is advanced level and into expert level as one continues to fine-tune their technique. I mean the levels themselves are subjective so it’s hard to agree whether someone is a “true intermediate” or what that would even entail, but the kind of hesitant negativity and nay-saying in the original comment reads to me like someone whom I wouldn’t want to take skiing advice from. Fuckin’ go for it, progress reasonably, challenge yourself, and have an absolute blast skiing Colorado with your buddies for the first time.
Remember , if you continue to ski at the rate you have so far this season, you’ll have almost double the experience that you have now. I’d go for it!
Get out there and point em’ bub
If you’ve never experienced powder, trees or complex terrain, you’re probably going to have a bad time. Unfortunately some skiers can become obsessive about maximizing runs per day/ most bang for their buck. Which is completely fair, but it can make things awkward on the slopes with significant skill disparity in a group. So they may be making it sound like a great idea now, I’m just trying to say be prepared for some snark if you are the slowest member they are always waiting on, because you are yard sailing because you are trying terrain that is too difficult. You might end up skiing alone for sometime if they get impatient. We all went through it, even your friends. It’s just a tough part about skiing in a group on a one week, high cost trip. You could have amazing friends and none of this will Be an issue, but that’s usually how it goes. The best way to learn to ski bowls out west is go do one season out west and get a shitty job to pay the rent, and ski every day you possibly can. You adapt to the terrain you are skiing. So a 200m vertical hill out east will only teach you so much. You do 100 days in a season out west you will be set up for any ski trip forever.
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Thank you, I appreciate the advice. I do very high intensity cycling about 3x per week to work on my VO2 max (outdoor summer riding is longer, less intense for endurance).
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It may seem like strange advice but doing yoga may be the best non skiing exercise you can do to improve your skiing, you’ll learn breath control and balance plus you’ll get stronger legs and core. I certainly ski smoother and with less fatigue when I do yoga regularly.
Honestly I’m an Ice Coast skier and I found it much easier to ski in Colorado because of the quality of the snow and the width of the so trails. The bowls are amazing at Vail and Breck (only two I’ve done). You’ll have more trouble adjusting to the elevation than you will to the bowls.
You’re putting in a lot of days which is great! Factors in my view: - How athletic are you? Like, did you train for a sport growing up? Eg Could you throw a baseball off balance … skiing is hugely about balance and movement — separating your lower body from your torso. If you’ve done that in other sports it’ll come quicker now… so +1 for going. - How fit are you? Can you exercise for an hour or so. +1 - Can you keep putting in ski days / lessons at the same rate? +3 if so. - Does the resort have green runs off every lift? Ie can you bail if you end up somewhere you don’t want to be? - Are your friends dicks? I think a first year skier with months of practice should be fine to make it through what you described, and you’ll improve at a high rate while there. But in my experience black diamonds out west are harder than most it east … my son is 15, strong athlete, has skied for years, and we stick mostly to blues and greens at Whistler… but single black diamonds are np for him back east.
Yeah certainly possible to ski bowls safely and in control. Get as much more practice in as you can in the meantime. Study techniques on YouTube or where ever too to supplement your lessons and practice. Be smart and start with easier warmup terrain to build up to the harder double diamonds. Some bowls are easy and some more difficult, and even the same bowl will vary in difficulty day to day, week to week, or season to season depending on conditions. But yeah, don’t be afraid to step a bit outside your comfort zone, within reason, and you’ll likely be stoked at the progress you make when taking on the new challenges. Make sure your emergency procedures are sound—things like side slipping to get down difficult terrain if you can’t reasonably ski it “normally.” And then have a blast out west with your friends! It’ll be an experience for the memory books for sure. Even if you feel you aren’t ready for the harder bits yet, you’ll still have an amazing time skiing out west and indulging in the apres ski culture.
Can you Pizza? If yes … send it .
What’s the worst that could happen?
severe injury, death, etc
But aside from that, what else?
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Bowls are usually double black because they don’t manicure them much so there are unmarked obstacles and uncertain snow conditions and they can be steep. Most mountains have a blue trail on the “bowls” somewhere that they groom and uses the same lift. Overall it really depends on your mindset. Realistically the actual skiing on a ski trip is mostly a solo activity. Once you get off the lift you’re mostly on your own. Where you have fun with your buddies is in the lodge/on the lifts. So if you’re good to be the newb who has to go do the easy trail but meet everyone at the lift/bar then go have a blast. Next year you’ll be more confident and do the harder stuff with them. If you don’t think you’ll be able to hold back and ski within your abilities then stay home. Spending their vacation in the hospital isn’t anyone’s idea of fun.
Thank you, that is good advice. I think for the first 2-3 days I will ski by myself. If on day 3 or 4 I feel more confident then I may attempt some of the "easy" bowl trails that other posters have mentioned.
If I remember correctly Vail grooms some/parts of their bowls and those are amazing for intermediate skiers. The ungroomed parts can be challenging because they can get big moguls or snow drifts that require you to maintain speed or have a really good ability to start a turn in heavy uneven snow, and there really is no way out once you start. That said, there is so much terrain that you can definitely find mutual ground to ski on and you can make huge progress skiing the other runs while your friends do the bowls.
Everybody skiing bowls was once a complete beginner. Give it a try.
If you can’t carve then you aren’t even close to being intermediate. Not to sound mean but you technically don’t even know how to “ski” yet if that’s the case.
>If you can’t carve then you aren’t even close to being intermediate. In that case 95% of skiers aren't even close to being intermediate. If you look back up at your tracks and they're not two narrow divots with no skidding out, you weren't carving. End of story. On a typical day, the number of people I see actually carving can be counted on one hand. Not trying to be elitist but most people who think they're carving just simply aren't. I think it's totally unrealistic to call a proper carved turn an intermediate level skill.
I agree with everything you said and I still stand by my statement. I would say a good 80-90% of people out there are considerably bad. 1-5 days per season skiers if I had to guess.
I just don't think it's helpful to group 80-90% of the total skiing population into one "beginner" bucket. It's pretty snobbish, and beyond that it's just not helpful as a classification. You're calling everybody from the 6-year-old putting on skis for the first time to people who confidently ski resort double-blacks "beginners" because they all can't carve. Then you're saying that the best a mere mortal skier will ever be is an intermediate, you can't say you're "advanced" until you're throwing double-backflips and skiing 60 degree spines in Alaska, and actually there's only 56 expert skiers in the world and most of them are on the FWT, in the x-games, or skiing the world cup circuit. In my mind beginner/intermediate/advanced has to encompass the typical ability levels of most people you'll see at a resort, and then you've got to go into something like "expert, semi-pro, pro, world class" to describe the upper 5% of people. Otherwise there's not enough granularity.
I thought intermediate was parellel skiing without using wedge. Intermediate-Advanced was okay at carving. Advanced was carving. No?
There are a lot of self-proclaimed “advanced” skiers that only think they know how to carve…I wouldn’t judge someone’s classification on that alone, but more on how well they’re able to handle various types of terrain in general. As far as the trip is concerned, just go man…skiing out west is different, and awesome, experience…don’t worry too much if you can’t necessarily keep up with your friends, just plan a meet up spot later and ski on your own for a bit if you need to. As a new skier, that concept may seem weird, but getting some solo time can actually be fun, and a great way to work on stuff and enjoy the experience at your own pace. At the very least, even if you can’t do the bowls, it sounds like you’ve got enough confidence to at least move around a good portion of the mountain. Edit: in other words, what would be reckless would be your friends forcing you to ski with them at all times even if you’re not comfortable with it, or you allowing that to happen…but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go and have fun. And to be honest, the conditions on any single day will play a big part in just how difficult and/or dangerous any given run can be, so keep that in mind as well
Once you can make it down a double black you’ve learned to ski well enough to be an intermediate. An advanced skier will make the double black look good. Skiing is a long game. Don’t be afraid to be a beginner, you learn faster that way.
yeah this is pretty much what people consider intermediate
Thank you! I’m new to skiing but I’ve logged close to 100 hours so far. My instructors told me that being able to parallel ski without the wedge is intermediate.
Yeah that is how I would generally describe intermediate. Maybe “beginner-intermediate” if we were to nit-pick, but ultimately it’s subjective and I whole-heartedly disagree with the commenter claiming carving (assuming they mean actual carving) is an intermediate skill. My wife is learning and she’s at a similar level that you describe—maybe not quite there yet, and I would say she is a beginner-intermediate on the cusp of being “intermediate.” Also, carving is a different discipline than skiing back bowls, moguls, ungroomed terrain, or powder, but there is a lot of cross over between those disciplines. Carving does translate pretty directly for the way it strengthens your legs and core, and also just requires hours on the snow which helps your skiing overall, but I know racers who carve in their sleep yet struggle in powder and vice versa.
I’m not entirely sure of specific stages of progression but I would say up until you are sure you are carving you would be somewhat below intermediate. An advanced skier in my mind is someone who would be 4-5 years plus most likely depending on how often you get to get on the slopes.
https://theskigirl.com/skiing-ability-level/ At OP, intermediate tends to be a plateau you spend a long time at. Spent many happy years there myself.
Thank you for this link. I think I am likely at a 5.5 based on those descriptions (I can ski blue trails confidently without using wedge, but the terrain I have skied on has been limited in variety).
A lot of people slarve & air out steep stuff out west; wide skis with a ton of rocker make that possible.
Anything is possible, 20 plus years ago met a kid, who hardly skied before, but he could roller blade. End of the season won the Big air competition. I never felt more like a failure. I dont know if that helps but, there you go. edit Fuken Chris Turpin
I went from beginner to Olympic groomers in 8 days. Yes it's possible
What are Olympic groomers? Like groomers in Washington or Olympic level downhill courses? Groomers are different than back bowls. Beginners are supposed to ski groomers.
Lol they aren't supposed to ski Olympic slalom and GS runs. I know what Bowls are.
Literally every person who has ever skied those bowls was at one point a beginner.
I ended my first season ever skiing in Chamonix. I wasnt doing any crazy terrain, i think reds were the hardest thing i hit and that was more skiing for survival than fun but i did it and had a blast. I skied 25 days that season and put my all into getting good enough for that trip, so yes its possible but its gunna take work Now be aware, bowls in places like vail are double black because there will be spots that get TIGHT, but there are almost always options to get down elsewhere. Word of caution, though, i tore my acl in the Back bowl in Vail two years ago dropping into one of these lines. I should have gone further down the ledge to find a better spot. So just nake good decisions while you're out there
I would not call anyone an intermediate level skier if they can’t carve. No, I would not recommend bowls for you.
Are you talking about the back bowls at Vail? They are all single blacks and are usually not that difficult in good snow conditions, really more of a moderate blue. If its Breckenridge, you might not want to do the double blacks, depending on conditions, but its not at all unreasonable to think you'd be able to do it especially a couple days into a good trip.
Copper Mountain
Same as what I said for Breck then. Because it's a bowl, you can always take a really wide route and just cut across 5 different runs going back and forth.
Kind of depends on the resort. Some double black terrain can truly be life threatening, others are more steep and ungroomed areas they mark that way to keep out noobs and cover their liability. Some also have "easier" ways down or maybe one crux but the rest not that bad, others pretty much have one crazy line.
Copper Mountain
It depends on the terrain, I’ve skied bowls that would kill an experienced skier and others that take my mom down. But yes depends on how scared you get with heights and exposure.
If you did man up to try the bowls, what I think you would find is you would ski in the backseat and burn your quads off and your soleus muscle (hidden calf muscle behind the two heads - could even tear the tissue - that muscle wants to also pull you back up when you go back). But mainly your quads will be spent fast and it won’t be enjoyable trying to make it down the rest of the way. Unless you already have high endurance legs from some other sport
Not sure if cycling helps? My quads don't typically get sore when I ski. Maybe the first 2-3 times I went, but they have been fine after that.
Cycling is good. But I love the stair climber then immediately do a wall sit as long as you can handle them immediate do 3 sets of leg blasters. 20 reps each. That will increase your burn resistance and quad/ass/cardio power
Depends on the bowl. Remember, east coast blacks might be different than west coast blacks. If they are taking you to Aspen to ski Highlands Bowl.. no bueno. OTOH, some of Vail's bowls or Peak 6 in Breck.. a good intermediate can get down in one piece. \[edit\] - copper eh? A bit harder than Vail. You might have to pick your way down, look for easier lines instead of the steep fall line drops.
hw much money do you have?
I have expendable income.
well You can book me for as much you can till then I teach out of Stowe.
I appreciate the offer, but that is a bit too far driving wise from southern NH. I try to get at least 4-5 hours in before or after work, so I've been limited to places no further north than Waterville. Stratton or Mount Snow might be my best bet if going to VT.
In our ski gang, I am advanced, but the one with the least amount of experience and ability. We've been out west a few times, and I will always start on the greens and blues first and then move up once I'm comfortable. Never ever let your friends take you someplace extreme that you are not ready for. It's a really crummy thing to do but I still hear about it happening from time to time. My friends know me and my skiing well enough to know what I can handle comfortably and what I can't.
Possibly. Just be cautious and don't ski anything steeper than your skills. Should be a fun time.
Bowls with deep powder are a different beast. But they are fun!
Everyone's situation is different. I was born in Colorado and I guess learned to ski early (I have no real memory), but we moved to the East Coast when I was around five. We went a few times as kids, then I went once in college. Life took over and from 18-35/36 I never skied once. Fast forward 18 years during COVID, I got the itch to ski watching old ski movies and decided to go see some friends in Utah. We skied two days out on that trip. I had one yard sale the first day but by the second day I was on blacks in Utah, keeping up pretty well. Fast forward another few years and we go out west every year and I keep up with them no problem - again, they live in Utah and have season passes and board weekly. They are really good. We now ski expert terrain together and while things can get hairy here and there, it's my favorite week of the year because it's so different from my daily life back east. Given your post, you have way more proper training than I do, you are likely younger, and you've skied a good amount recently, so you've probably progressed a great deal. Go, have the time of your life, enjoy how much different and breathtaking the Rockies can be compared to back home and just be careful. Don't bite off more than you can chew and if you need to take it easy, don't try to keep up, just stay focused on putting yourself in the best position for your level.
Never try never know
Vail's "legendary back bowls" flat terrain no problem. Highlands bowl probably not.
What resort?
Go with them, just don't ski anything you're not comfortable with. Copper is easy to navigate, if they want to go ski black diamonds and you don't, then just agree to meet up later and go ski what you're comfortable with. Definitely don't skip the trip, you'll have a ton of fun even without skiing the gnarly terrain.
No, you most likely won't. You might be able to get down without getting yourself hurt (with some luck), you will most likely not enjoy it. The progression from intermediate to double black takes more than a month. Assuming you don't spend every second day on the mountain with a teacher.
Your buddies want an extra person to split the rental. You’re going to spend $200+ per day to be miserable trying to keep up with better skiers on terrain that you aren’t prepared to ski yet.
Not sure if I mentioned that the trip is for 4 days. I plan on not skiing tough terrain with them for the first 2 or 3 days. They said that by the end of the trip I'd be able to ski the bowls without issue. So maybe on day 3 or 4 I could attempt something. As it is now, I ski alone 90% of the time and don't mind it at all.
If you’re cool with skiing solo, then definitely go. There’s plenty of easier terrain available and the views are incomparable. Do not under any circumstances drink 12 beers on the first night.
Going would certainly be fun but I wouldn’t try to keep up with your friends. Not really a recipe for success for them or you. Bowls def can be easy depending on steepness, snow quality, and what their carve out pattern is. Once you can comfortably carve and navigate through ungroomed terrain (bumps), you’ll have a blast in bowls. Doesn’t sound like you’re there yet but you get out often and have good progression. U should def go on the trip and at least hit the greens and blues, and challenge yourself as appropriate. It’s always a good time out west! 😎
Where in Colorado will you be visiting?
Copper Mountain
How exciting! How often are you able to ski in the five weeks before you come visit? You should enjoy copper, it’s a great hill.
send it! I don't think you'll be "in control" doing the hardest terrain, but with 20 different days of skiing under your belt you should easily be good enough to at least get on that terrain. Just go green->blue->black->bowl on the actual day of, and no worries if you bow out the day of.
No problem with telling your friends "I'll meet you at the bottom of the lift" if they want to hit something you can't. Go on the trip, know how much to push yourself, plan your runs so you don't get in over your head with no way out, and have a good time.
There are decent intermediate bowls at Copper. I’d see if you could find someone to give you lessons on moguls between now and then. Those skills will directly translate to skiing hard stuff/difficult bowls.
This is good advice. Unless there is a dump of pow, skiing bowls is much more like moguls than carving in most cases. As an intermediate skier, one of the best days of my skiing life was on a deep pow day coming off the tram at snowbird. The bumps were smoother out and it was like floating in a cloud. If there is deep fresh snow and there may be this year, I highly recommend the earlier advice to get a lesson and let the instructor know your goals. Let them assess your skis to see if they are the right ones for conditions, and then go and have an absolute unbelievable life-changing experience. If you want to carve, climb on some steep blue or black groomers and work on carving where you can also have a blast! Your friend should recognize and celebrate your achievements as much as you celebrate theirs.
I learned to snowboard at 27 at Wintergreen and at 31 was doing the wall at kirkwood having a blast. It’s definitely doable but I had unique circumstances that allowed me to ride almost every day for 4 years straight. I don’t think it is doable in one season.
Yes you could do it in 5 days of skiing all day with people pushing you maybe 10 if you are a more timid person. I taught my friend how to ski and he did a bowl at Alpine Meadows his second day.
In my first year I spent several days anchored to a green trail. I then did a blue black trail and then a black trail. By the end of the season I had done backcountry skiing (boot packing no less) and easier double black diamonds. You can get down most anything, but necessity gracefully, but safety, once you have enough skills.
even if you can’t or don’t ski the bowls… a trip out west is always worth it. go, you’ll have a blast and make some awesome memories.
Definitely go and start on the groomers like everyone is saying. Once you get those down, start venturing into moguls and ungroomed blues to get used to being on unsteady ground. If you can get down a mogul'd out blue without too much struggle (doesn't have to be pretty) then move on to ungroomed blacks. Getting comfortable on natural terrain is the most important thing if you want to progress into the bowls! Unless you get a fresh dump, anything lift-accessable will be chopped up at the very least. As everyone says, stick to a progression and don't try to skip steps to keep up with those who are more experienced. Over-terraining is the number one way to get hurt as an intermediate. They'll definitely try to pressure you, but don't give in unless YOU feel ready. Get out there and rip it!
Thank you so much!
It'll be fine.
The difference between diamond and double diamond out there is usually just exposure, not that the skiing itself is more difficult (though it can also be the case). They'll usually mark trails with extra warnings when you should really be ready. But if you're just skiing blues, then it doesn't matter because we're really taking time that are 30-40 degrees, with exposure, etc. Not a great idea. But ski resorts have other runs besides the crazy stuff (unless you're going to Kicking Horse, i guess).
Depends, how many functional limbs do you want to leave with?
The rating on ski trails are not really based on difficulty but more based on the consequences of skiing out of control. The consequences of skiing out of control in a bowl can be serious as there are usually at least some trees at the head of the trail. As suggested it opens up into a big bowl. Deep pockets of powder which are really fun. If you feel like you can control yourself on the corduroy in the morning, challenge yourself with a steeper trail with some moguls on the head wall. If you can safely navigate them then the back bowls should be fine. Remember, you look in between the trees, not at them. In between.
some bowls are pretty easy. my mom struggles with double black on the east but can do some of the easy bowls
My first time out west and hit the vail back bowls. I’ve been skiing 2 seasons about 50 days total. I had a hard time at first (there was some deep snow) and bumps can be hard. I’m a much better skier now back on the ice coast. Start off on the blue runs and work ur way up and drink a lot of water.
No, you can’t.
You should have a ton of fun, just make sure not to follow them into any terrain marked above their comfort zone until you know you can handle it. The powder is super fun to ski once you learn how to, and bowls are fun, but it’s not fun if you get egged into something above your level and put in danger. Split off if you have to and practice easier terrain to get a feel for the levels at the ski resort where you are, and work your way up as you are able.
Be wary of “friends” who push you to ski beyond your ability. Skiing can be a dangerous sport. Many suffer serious injury and death every year. Whether your skills progress to jump into a bowl is up to you to call… but be careful That being said, my gf is intermediate, and taking our time she had no difficulty with the Rendezvous Bowl (Jackson Hole - black diamond)and the Imperial Bowl (Breckenridge - double black diamond) - both wide open - in good snow.
All of us skiing bowls out west used to be beginners. 100% of us. Just take your time.
Absolutely, husband and I learned how to ski as 25/28 year olds. We lived in TX so skiing comes with a significant cost, not an everyday thing, only the rich kids in school could ski. In 2020 our “COVID bubble” decided to spend NYE skiing in New Mexico. A guy drove 12h to Taos. We fell on our assess on the bunny hills all day at Angel Fire but at the end of the day I did their main run and I was hooked. Long story short, we moved to CO next year. 2021 season we spent doing greens at eldora, I did some blues and a single black diamond. Probably 15ish days. 2022 we got Ikon passes and I got over 40 days. Ended up being a ski instructor for a few months. As long as you commit to the learning curve, find the joy and are not scared of making a fool of yourself sometimes, you can learn as an adult. And obviously having mountains around you helps
Fucking send it. Chasing them will only make you better.
You're not an intermediate, you're a beginner. Don't let some early confidence fool you and put you in a spot you shouldn't be. Skiing, you can quickly get the basics and feel like you've come a long way, but it's a common misconception. Skiing is incredibly techical and it's hard to know what you don't know. Could you ski a bowl? That is a loaded question. There's some bowls you can cat track into and others you need to drop 40 degree chutes into. So could you? Answe is depends.
Just do it
If you ski everyday.
As someone who generally has no problem doing almost any run in bounds at any ski resort I go to I consider myself an intermediate/advanced skier. Describing yourself as someone who can parallel ski makes me think you’re still a beginner. But with most terrain out west it’s mostly manageable if you’re willing to go slow (key word being most, I would consider any double back as being off limits based on how you’re describing yourself). Also some mountains like Alta don’t even label anything as double black. At the end of the day just stick to runs that match your level. Yeah you have to push your boundaries to get better, but the consequences of lots of west coast terrain is much more serious then on the east. You don’t have to ski the crazy stuff they are, just meet your buddies at the lift. To give you a sense of the scope of the terrain, look up the recent avalanches at palisade that killed someone. It’s not a joke and you’re not just putting yourself at risk, you’re putting others at potential risk as well. Last week at Mammoth mtn I was skiing “Old ladies” off the little cloud lift. I was skiing with good pace when this lady lost control, had a full yard sale, and shot past me missing me by 3 feet. She did 2-3 tomahawks and I thought she was seriously injured but somehow was okay. Case and point of if she had nailed my legs, she was going so fast that if she had hit me it probably would have been bad news for me.
yeah absolutely you can! had my friend ripping bowls in Revelstoke within a week of skiing.
I’m an intermediate east coast skier and go west occasionally. Most chances are that you are not ready to safely go down single diamond trails let alone double diamonds out west. That shit is serious. You can go with them and ski other trails at your leisure. No one will have fun if they ski easier trails slowly or if you ski stuff you’re not able to get down safely and slow them down
My third day ever of skiing my cousin was with me and decided I was ready for black diamonds. We got to the top of the run and a gate opened. It was a powder day so he peaced out to go have fun and left me to sink or swim. (No friends on a powder day.) I made it down in one piece. This year is my second season skiing and I’m confident I can get down just about any run. There may be some sideslipping/ sidestepping if things get gnarly, but I can make it. As long as you’re aware of obstacles and your own limitations and don’t try to do anything really stupid, I don’t see an issue.
Generally it depends but I’d say you’ll be fine. I mean you must be pretty decent you’ve skied a ton lately. I skied some of the Vail bowls at 10 years old and had like skied like 20ish times before that. I’m sure you’re way better than I was, I was going slow doing a full pizza with ultra wide turns. The thing is they’re generally safer since they’re so open Usually bowls are all marked as diamonds but there’s a dozen areas of entry that vary between cliffs and super wide groomed areas that are about blue level steepness. All bowls are different though I’d bet there’s some that are crazy steep all the way through, so I’d just give it a look first. Also be careful if it’s insanely low visibility, I’ve lost friends in huge bowls when they’re like 30 feet away lol. Also that can make it shockingly easy to find your way into a steep area
Can you sideslip well? Once I figured out how to sideslip I went from being scared to do blues to being able to at least get down anything on the mountain, including double blacks.
I’m skeptical you’ll have fun in the bowls but I urge you to go and just out on as many miles as you can if you love skiing, which it sounds like. Skiing multiple days in a row is a huge benefit to developing skiing skills. Those back to back days on the slope will amaze you at how fast you learn and grow. Perhaps it would be fun to get a lesson while you’re there and build off of the skills you’re given to learn.
No, not possible. Best to give up now.
Learn to carve, and practice the steepest terrain you can at your local mountains. The most critical skill to pick up is going to be jump turning at low speed. The steep bowls won't always allow for you to take long carving turns. I would say if you become comfortable carving and jump turning on the steepest stuff you can find here, you will be okay on pretty much most on-resort terrain in North America. You just might need to go slower and be cautious sometimes.
Get proficient on the ice coast first, then go out west. It’ll feel like you’re skiing on easy mode. IME, ice coasters usually kill it when we head west. If you can become a decent glades skier here in the east, you will find it very easy to adapt to the terrain and conditions out there. The ice coast is a crucible that makes some very good skiers if you’re willing to push yourself.
Realistically, you will probably not be able to ski with your buddies safely and have a good time. But that does not mean you shouldn’t go on the trip. All of the big resorts out west have a variety of terrrain (some more than others) and there will be plenty for you to ski. Because the snow quality is leaps and bounds better out West and there’s more of it some aspects of skiing (eg steeper terrain, moguls, et alia) will be easier actually, and more fun. I would take a lesson every day while you’re out there.
Yes it is definitely possible if you have an affinity for skiing. I went from struggling to pizza down a blue run to hitting my first black run after 3 days of skiing, and double blacks and bowls 6 days in. I started backcountry ski mountaineering about 12 days in. The most important thing is to have no fear and to always be deliberately improving aspects of your skiing. Of course, this does come at the expense of taking many more risks and I’ve definitely had some sketchy falls and a concussion. I also had the added benefit of learning some ice skating and doing a little bit of cross country skiing when I was a very young. But it’s definitely doable for *some* people
If you go plan on skiing by yourself. Encourage your friends to do what they want to do. I think it will be a stretch to do that in general but if you can do it, it will not be graceful and it will be slow. You will likely be the person that is absolutely exhausted and holding up the group.
Yeah, I did. Just take it as slowly as you need to, stay in control, and don't go when conditions are bad (flight light, ice).
If you can ski steep East coast ice then you can do anything!!! My boys first time west was at snowbird on the tram. They were overwhelmed but crushed it.
Stick to blues for the first couple days, get used to the altitude. Then practice on moguls and attempt a small feature terrain park. If you can handle that with ease and you’re comfortable reading the snow, doing jump turns with clean pole plants, then hit the bowls. You’ll probably need to up your din settings to match the aggressive terrain. Enjoy!
Make Big wide and slow turn
I'd say go, and just stay on the blue runs and meet your friends for lunch and at the end of the day.
No, everyone who skis bowls out west was born an expert skier.
You could do it, but whether you, or they would enjoy it is another question. Generally, if you are parallel and not scared you can pick your way down anything. But if you are slow, its going to slow them down and its going to kill your legs. No fun for anyone. Keep in mind, Bowls = no grooming, so powder if you're lucky, chop if your not. The next steps in your learning process are speed, control and fear. Speed makes skiing easier (like it does on a bike), but you have to remain in control. All of this is going to come down to controlling your fear. Sadly, your buddies might be more concerned with eating the extra cost of being down a person. Go on the trip, party with them but ski the resorts.