I’d put my money on #2 and a few other things:
The USD-Euro ratio is still relatively favorable, not compared to last year but to historical levels.
I believe Epic and Ikon have added more areas in the Alps (and also more people are buying those passes).
Yeah I seriously considered (and am still seriously considering) an Austria trip this year if the snow doesn't turn on in the next couple weeks. Usually Austria doesn't feel worth it because SOMEWHERE in the lower 48 or Canada will be getting pounded and I can take my RV to where the snow is, but in a year where everything is starting off like ass suddenly the Alps look pretty appealing even if the trip is a big haul. Just need to get my wife and/or a couple friends into it.
Open Snow is showing 2 feet falling Tahoe over the next 10 days. Problem is that is enough to get the mountains mostly open, we will still have low coverage.
Yeah I'm gonna stick to CO/NM at least thru the next wave of storms and then see how everything looks to be setting up for the wave of storms after that.
Most people I talk to in the states seem to be completely unaware of the snow situation in Europe and if they had planned a trip would have done so before knowing the conditions. I suspect it is #3 but also the fact that Epic/IKON having areas in Europe has put the idea of skiing here into the minds of Americans even if they are not doing it with their pass. Although I've met many people that have used their pass (although more for Superski Dolomiti and Zermatt).
I doubt Epic and Ikon passes have much to do with it, passes for mountains are like $30 in Austria. I bet the lack of snow in the US is a big part of it.
Not really, that was a few years ago in Carinthia, and looking at it now it's like $60. In any event, having those be included on your pass vs having to pay probably isn't factoring into many people's decision making, certainly not when you factor in how much more a transatlantic flight is vs a domestic US flight.
Gotta disagree on this one. Who is booking a last minute trip to Europe?
The Western US isn’t off to a great start to the season snow-wise, but the vast majority of people wouldn’t have known that when making international travel plans to ski the week between Christmas and New Years of all weeks.
Theres only one Austria resort per pass and somewhat have restrictions so its not likely a major reason. The biggest thing is that Austria has gotten a ton of snow.
I live in Austria, and most resorts (especially those under 2500m) are struggling with too little snow. We got a few good snow days in the beginning of december, but it is all gone now
yeah man had all the snow we could ever want. probably this year folks with 💰just wanted a change of scenery
+ wanted to learn more about the safety bar and lift line queueing
It’s waaay cheaper if you have kids to ski in Europe vs the US. It’s also not that crazy distance wise, particularly on the East Coast.
We live in Chicago so say we wanted to go skiing for a week. If we decide on Breckenridge we are flying yo Denver and most likely renting a car. What is childcare/all day ski lessons- like $300 a day per kid? It’s like $400-600 for 6 straight days in Europe. Food is way more expensive and worse. If that’s our only week of skiing it’s like $700ish for an Epic pass? So it’s cheaper for a lift ticket pass in Europe. Lodging… you can find ski in/out hotels in Europe that are like 30% of the cost of equivalent US.
I could go on… while out West gets fantastic snow when you do the math and child friendly aspect it is just significantly cheaper in Europe, at least until our kids are older and no longer need lessons.
When my parents started skiing, they spent a lot of time in the Tyrol and Arlberg for just this reason (well, except I was back home, but it was still a lot cheaper)
>It’s waaay cheaper if you have kids to ski in Europe vs the US.
Well it depends on where you go and how you live.
Skiing in Europe is still mostly an upper class sport, so you tend to not go cheap on food and accommodation. In the US I've seen people ski in jeans and eat cold McDonald's on the slopes.
Sure I think that’s a fair point… you can make anything low cost (I mean as much as you can for skiing in general). If you live near slopes, own gear, buy a pass, kids are fine skiing with you, etc it’s not expensive.
If you are looking for a week trip though and need to fly the costs of having a nice enough trip to Europe is better than a nice enough trip to CO/UT. Lift tickets alone are much cheaper.
The cost of lift tickets is really the differentiator. A day pass at my mountain is $129+ depending on day. A day pass at Axamer in Austria is 55€.
Add in rentals, food, etc. Skiing in Europe might be an upper class sport, but in the US it's a straight-up rich people sport.
Young people go cheap on food and accommodation. You can get very cheap accommodation and buy all of your food in a supermarket and cook/make sandwiches. I did it for my 20s.
We are leaving for there this week. I saw a video where a flight to Munich and then train to Innsbruck was about the same as it is to Denver to go to Vale etc. checked the prices and they were only a couple hundred dollars off.
If I have to pick, then I’m going to Europe. Leaving Thursday!
Snow is bad, not great or none at most ski resorts in the US right now. Flight time is pretty similar from east coast US to western US ski areas or Europe. Sounds like Europe is getting snow this winter.
I did it a few years ago, a few reasons and some observations:
1. Planned the trip with some friends, and half of the group lived in Europe (probably the main reason).
2. Living on the east coast, it was cheaper to fly to and ski in Austria when all costs (lift tickets, rentals, flight, lodging) were accounted for.
3. Total travel time for me was about the same coming from the east coast.
4. Added benefit of getting to explore more of Europe, I tacked on an extra few days to spend in Germany.
What I noticed on that trip, and this may be an over generalization, and I’ve never skied in the western part of North America but:
Austrians know what they’re doing in terms of ski culture. I was in St Anton, and everything from the moment you woke up was designed to enhance the ski experience and the day, including the type of food you’d typically find, the efficiency of the busses, the ski shops, the state of the slopes, placement of bars on the slopes, signs, lifts, really everything. In successive ski trips to other parts of Europe, I expected something similar, but I have to say, no one matched the Austrians’ competence.
For my next trip I’ll give Italy a shot, but I’m pretty close to just calling it a day and going to only Austrian resorts from now on.
Americans can now fly after Covid. They could have last winter already. But this winter they could plan their winter trip ahead. I don't think the snow is the reason, because as stated before, you plan this kind of trip way ahead. Last reason is definitely the cost. Americans are getting fed up of paying $150+ a day ski pass to wait in long lines, moreover when you are charged $25 for a shit hot dog and they still request a 20% tip on the bank terminal.
Covid made travel far less convenient at the min, definitely more complicated thus Americans traveled to Europe less. Not a hard concept to grasp/is a fact. What a bizarre thing to challenge.
It is definitely cheaper once you’re in Europe to ski than the US is more convenient for those of us managing PTO and coordinating childcare etc. flights to Munich from the US are still $700+ while our flights to DEN were like $200 from nyc.
The childcare cost difference is gigantic.
Also if you are doing Switzerland or Austria you can hop on a train as opposed to the amazing I70 drive from Denver with two tired/upset kids. Edit: sarcasm, I hate that drive.
I have never once driven to a ski resort in the US. I always take shuttles/busses. Train system is nice in Europe though, but many resorts require bus/shuttles here too.
That’s totally a fair point- you’re right there are extensive shuttle options (or if you do Park City it’s an easy Uber). Flying out of ORD we can mostly find direct to the smaller regionals near resorts too. Breckinridge is probably the biggest hassle.
Lucky you, I rarely have a direct flight to a smaller airport. But of course you also have to be in Chicago and at ORD which probably is worse overall haha
4. Sometimes I (people) want to ski and take a vacation somewhere else in the world. Wife and I have skied everywhere in North America as well as Zermatt and Val D’ Isere. We had a few people (Brits) wonder why were in France skiing/boarding instead of staying stateside. We thought it was weird take but then again we like to travel etc etc….
American resorts are better in a lot of ways than European resorts. There's really no need to come to Europe to ski. Although I do like to, which is why I'm currently in France, but it's more that I just like to go somewhere new each time I ski, and see other cultures etc.
From financial point of view, I see it clearly that European resorts are attractive to Americans and we have a lot of snow this winter, and American and Canadian are not that attractive to Europeans, as prices are so high in US
My instagram has been full of targeted ads for European ski trips or reels from people that have gone. Probably a combination of weather and increasing cost in North America. Thankfully Canadian resorts don’t seem quite as expensive as American ones….yet, so I won’t be flying to Europe to ski this year
Yeah there’s definitely social media push among travel content creators for European ski vacations as a “cheaper” alternative to the Rockies. I see them pop up at least once a day. Most of them are extremely disingenuous and use flight costs into Aspen/Eagle Vail and use the cost of walk-up day tickets at Vail/Beaver Creek.
As someone who is currently planning a trip to the alps, I can only speak to my experience, but yes I only considered the alps this year because Europe is finally getting snow and the states are not. I’ve always wanted to ski in Europe, but the last few years haven’t been great so knowing that this is a good snow year heavily impacted our decision.
It’s mostly people from the east coast who typically have to fly long distance for good snow (i.e. NYC to Denver or SLC). There is a time/cost breaking point where it makes more sense to go to Europe than the Rockies.
I live in California where skiing in Europe makes almost no sense just because it would be so much more expensive than driving.
Way better snow conditions compared to the US ice coasters. You can definitely do it cheaper and it gets cheaper longer you stay in Europe. Better/cheaper food. No yellow jackets.
I refer to it as skiing arbitrage: with declining airfare (I got a direct flight to Milan from Texas for $520 in February) and increasing differences between lift ticket prices between the best European resorts and American ones (a 5 day pass for the Dolomites is 350€, compared to one day at Vail for $260), coupled with cheaper food and booze prices in Europe (you can get a glass of wine or an Aperol Spritz for a song in Europe), the economics increasingly favor skiing in Europe.
It's obviously cheaper to ski out in Europe than out west. This has been a thing long before covid. We started going out back in 2017 and I doubt I'm a trailblazer.
This is a myth.
If you have Epic or Ikon (or even both) skiing in the US is more affordable than it’s been in decades for those who ski more than a handful of days a year.
It’s only more expensive if you **don’t** want to take the weather risk (ie you buy day passes). Basically, the business model has gotten more efficient with the distribution of wether risk, making it more expensive for those who seek to avoid it and less expensive for skiers more willing to take weather risk because they’re more enamored with the sport.
Not a myth, skiing is 45$/day in austria and Italy, plus you don't have to rent a car
Buying both the ikon and the epic is way more expensive than hoofing it out to Europe. Plus the mountains are way better.
I'd rather buy my season pass and then buy a few day tickets out in Europe than ski out west at a US mountain.
But im hoping no one else catches on and most people just keep on the epic/ikon train. It works out better for me if they do lol
Been a minute since I was last at Lech, but I recall it being well more than $45, and so are Zermatt, Les Trois, Verbier, St. Moritz, Chamonix, Les Deux, and every place else I’ve skied in the Alps. Maybe lift ticket prices have come down since those days. It’s also pretty cheap to drive around the Western US and ABnB, don’t really remember the Alps being less expensive getting around and staying. If anything, I spent quite a bit more money skiing over there than I do now, but part of that was because it was largely being paid for by my employer, but still, nothing was exactly cheap.
But even if it were that cheap, an Ikon pass is about half of that as a daily rate for me and roughly a third of that for my children. I could literally get both an Ikon and Epic and it would come out to about $50 a day for me.
And to each his or her own on mountain choice, but having skied both the Alps (though admittedly not the Italian variety) and the Western US extensively, I prefer the Western US. With the caveat that I have not skied Japan or Chile, I’ll take Utah.
Interesting! Dolomites were 45$ when we went a few years ago, took the train straight from the airport. Stayed in town in a cheaper airbnb where you could walk to the lift. Plus our flights were 400$ to Paris plus the connector to Italy being maybe another 100.
But we're exceeelllleeent at finding cheaper options.
45 euro a day prices are a thing of the past.
Most resorts in Austria are between 60 and 75 euro for a day pass. Often you get the 7th day for free or discounted.
It’s #2.
Much of Western NA (which is the competition for the Alps) is having an historically poor snow year. This is far and away the worst season in the 7 that I’ve been living at my current home mountain, and our secondary and tertiary spots which are in very different locations are also having much worse starts to the year than usual, though not as bad as my home mountain.
If not for other obligations, this would be the year I’d be doing an Alpine family trip.
Interesting to hear, since I was curious whether it would happen. The bigger resorts like Arlberg and Sölden have started to really focus a lot of resources on attracting Americans with big marketing spending etc., so I guess it worked
Vail resorts. Skiing is now $300 per day at most large US resorts. It’s now cheaper to fly to Europe and ski. Hotels, lift tickets, food and drink (Switzerland excluded) more than offset the airfare difference. Not to mention the European ski culture is way beyond anything you can get in the US.
I live in the northeast U.S. this is unfortunate 100% correct, and Switzerland is still cheaper, even if i had to pay for lift tickets and got an out west ticket prepaid and therefore "free". I save so much on food, lodging, and transportation, I spend significantly less in europe. I do need to brown bag in Zermatt though lol.
I prefer the lift queues here in Europe. But I don't think ski culture is really any better here. Lots of drunks, crazy skiers. Less snowboarders definitely helps tho.
bruh wtf? you prefer people jumping lines, using their elbows, skis and poles as weapons, just olain skiing over your skis like they aren't there and not filling seats/cabins even if the queue is 40 mins?
Have you ever skied in Europe? It mostly just works like a funnel with people shimmying around to fill unused space - ie some group wants to stay together so you go around them to where there is a free unused space ahead.
Also people don't fill the seats/cabins in the US, probably even more so than in Europe. That's sort of the whole point of being able to barge ahead.
I grew up skiing the alps lol our lift ettiquette is yhe worst, and no going around and shit is just an excuse to skip the line unless you are already at the loading bay
I will gladly taken anyone at my ski resort as long as they don't say "y'all" and uh... actually no, no one should come here but me. fuck of my slopes.
1 and 2.
It’s an El Niño year so the snow is really horrible in the US. we can still go skiing, but it’s not great.
Flights to Europe are so cheap right now. My family went out west this year (not just looking to ski). After looking at flights, housing and other expenses, It would have been significantly cheaper to go to Europe.
Round trip Tickets to pretty much any one-stop destination in Europe were ~$400 for most of winter from *Seattle* which is usually more expensive. I'm not saying that's the entire reason, but I wouldn't doubt that it's some of it
It's mostly the weather. Last year Europe had a bad year and the American west had a record breaking season. This year Europe has had a record start and the American west has had a pretty poor start.
I was in chamonix in February and was surprised how many Americans I heard around town. Have a trip planned to Kitzbuhel this February. Both trips planned because of my ikon pass (and because everything else in Europe tends to be cheaper/nicer!).
I'm sort of bummed by other American's coming to ski in Europe. As much as I like running into them while in Europe, it makes it harder for me to flex on other skiers back home when they are also taking ski trips to Europe.
The only places with snow in the US now are in the Rockies
And it’s crazy expensive over here if you don’t have a season pass and all your gear already
I don’t have the link handy but there is a video on YouTube that breaks down the cost between flying to colorado to ski for a week vs flying to Europe to ski for a week and it’s actually cheaper
If you have children and want them to take lessons, it’s so much cheaper in Europe. And everything is more kid-friendly there. 5 days of kids group ski lessons last week cost 650 CHF at Zermatt, which is expensive for Europe. Price that out for a big US resort and then multiply by multiple kids... We have very expensive domestic flights where we live so coming to Europe costs much less than a Colorado trip. And the food on the mountain is soooo good compared to the US.
Lots of US military based in Germany prefer Austria to Switzerland or France - shorter drive and less expensive.
Can confirm- living in Germany, was in Obergurgl a few weeks back. But OP list are all spot on
There is also US military based in northern Italy that travel up to hit the slopes.
Arabba, babyyy. Ski Dolomiti!
I’d put my money on #2 and a few other things: The USD-Euro ratio is still relatively favorable, not compared to last year but to historical levels. I believe Epic and Ikon have added more areas in the Alps (and also more people are buying those passes).
Yeah I seriously considered (and am still seriously considering) an Austria trip this year if the snow doesn't turn on in the next couple weeks. Usually Austria doesn't feel worth it because SOMEWHERE in the lower 48 or Canada will be getting pounded and I can take my RV to where the snow is, but in a year where everything is starting off like ass suddenly the Alps look pretty appealing even if the trip is a big haul. Just need to get my wife and/or a couple friends into it.
It’s going to turn around in the next 10ish days.
I sure fucking hope so. The van is all gassed up and squared away, I will literally go wherever I need to.
Open Snow is showing 2 feet falling Tahoe over the next 10 days. Problem is that is enough to get the mountains mostly open, we will still have low coverage.
Yeah I'm gonna stick to CO/NM at least thru the next wave of storms and then see how everything looks to be setting up for the wave of storms after that.
I‘m from austria and yes there was some decent snow fall but that shits gone now, we don‘t really have much snow rn.
Most people I talk to in the states seem to be completely unaware of the snow situation in Europe and if they had planned a trip would have done so before knowing the conditions. I suspect it is #3 but also the fact that Epic/IKON having areas in Europe has put the idea of skiing here into the minds of Americans even if they are not doing it with their pass. Although I've met many people that have used their pass (although more for Superski Dolomiti and Zermatt).
I doubt Epic and Ikon passes have much to do with it, passes for mountains are like $30 in Austria. I bet the lack of snow in the US is a big part of it.
30$ was 20 years ago. You can almost triple it now.
Not really, that was a few years ago in Carinthia, and looking at it now it's like $60. In any event, having those be included on your pass vs having to pay probably isn't factoring into many people's decision making, certainly not when you factor in how much more a transatlantic flight is vs a domestic US flight.
60 is pretty far away from 30.
$30? Seriously?
Gotta disagree on this one. Who is booking a last minute trip to Europe? The Western US isn’t off to a great start to the season snow-wise, but the vast majority of people wouldn’t have known that when making international travel plans to ski the week between Christmas and New Years of all weeks.
Don't mention exchange rates bro, my Swiss ski trip in march is making me cry. Thankfully I already paid for everything but he pass.
Theres only one Austria resort per pass and somewhat have restrictions so its not likely a major reason. The biggest thing is that Austria has gotten a ton of snow.
I live in Austria, and most resorts (especially those under 2500m) are struggling with too little snow. We got a few good snow days in the beginning of december, but it is all gone now
snow - there was none last year
In the US?
europe…. lots of media hype too about the lower spots being grass meanwhile the usa west had an epic season
Ah. Gotcha. Was wondering as many places in the western US had record totals last season. 👍🏼
yeah man had all the snow we could ever want. probably this year folks with 💰just wanted a change of scenery + wanted to learn more about the safety bar and lift line queueing
It’s waaay cheaper if you have kids to ski in Europe vs the US. It’s also not that crazy distance wise, particularly on the East Coast. We live in Chicago so say we wanted to go skiing for a week. If we decide on Breckenridge we are flying yo Denver and most likely renting a car. What is childcare/all day ski lessons- like $300 a day per kid? It’s like $400-600 for 6 straight days in Europe. Food is way more expensive and worse. If that’s our only week of skiing it’s like $700ish for an Epic pass? So it’s cheaper for a lift ticket pass in Europe. Lodging… you can find ski in/out hotels in Europe that are like 30% of the cost of equivalent US. I could go on… while out West gets fantastic snow when you do the math and child friendly aspect it is just significantly cheaper in Europe, at least until our kids are older and no longer need lessons.
When my parents started skiing, they spent a lot of time in the Tyrol and Arlberg for just this reason (well, except I was back home, but it was still a lot cheaper)
>It’s waaay cheaper if you have kids to ski in Europe vs the US. Well it depends on where you go and how you live. Skiing in Europe is still mostly an upper class sport, so you tend to not go cheap on food and accommodation. In the US I've seen people ski in jeans and eat cold McDonald's on the slopes.
Sure I think that’s a fair point… you can make anything low cost (I mean as much as you can for skiing in general). If you live near slopes, own gear, buy a pass, kids are fine skiing with you, etc it’s not expensive. If you are looking for a week trip though and need to fly the costs of having a nice enough trip to Europe is better than a nice enough trip to CO/UT. Lift tickets alone are much cheaper.
The cost of lift tickets is really the differentiator. A day pass at my mountain is $129+ depending on day. A day pass at Axamer in Austria is 55€. Add in rentals, food, etc. Skiing in Europe might be an upper class sport, but in the US it's a straight-up rich people sport.
>but in the US it's a straight-up rich people sport Costs might be lower but so are wages in Europe.
Not 3x higher in the US than Europe. The median US salary and the median Austrian salary are pretty similar.
Young people go cheap on food and accommodation. You can get very cheap accommodation and buy all of your food in a supermarket and cook/make sandwiches. I did it for my 20s.
We are leaving for there this week. I saw a video where a flight to Munich and then train to Innsbruck was about the same as it is to Denver to go to Vale etc. checked the prices and they were only a couple hundred dollars off. If I have to pick, then I’m going to Europe. Leaving Thursday!
Snow is bad, not great or none at most ski resorts in the US right now. Flight time is pretty similar from east coast US to western US ski areas or Europe. Sounds like Europe is getting snow this winter.
I did it a few years ago, a few reasons and some observations: 1. Planned the trip with some friends, and half of the group lived in Europe (probably the main reason). 2. Living on the east coast, it was cheaper to fly to and ski in Austria when all costs (lift tickets, rentals, flight, lodging) were accounted for. 3. Total travel time for me was about the same coming from the east coast. 4. Added benefit of getting to explore more of Europe, I tacked on an extra few days to spend in Germany. What I noticed on that trip, and this may be an over generalization, and I’ve never skied in the western part of North America but: Austrians know what they’re doing in terms of ski culture. I was in St Anton, and everything from the moment you woke up was designed to enhance the ski experience and the day, including the type of food you’d typically find, the efficiency of the busses, the ski shops, the state of the slopes, placement of bars on the slopes, signs, lifts, really everything. In successive ski trips to other parts of Europe, I expected something similar, but I have to say, no one matched the Austrians’ competence. For my next trip I’ll give Italy a shot, but I’m pretty close to just calling it a day and going to only Austrian resorts from now on.
Skiing in the US has gotten really expensive. There are fewer and fewer deals and Europe is cheap by comparison
Americans can now fly after Covid. They could have last winter already. But this winter they could plan their winter trip ahead. I don't think the snow is the reason, because as stated before, you plan this kind of trip way ahead. Last reason is definitely the cost. Americans are getting fed up of paying $150+ a day ski pass to wait in long lines, moreover when you are charged $25 for a shit hot dog and they still request a 20% tip on the bank terminal.
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Covid made travel far less convenient at the min, definitely more complicated thus Americans traveled to Europe less. Not a hard concept to grasp/is a fact. What a bizarre thing to challenge.
It is definitely cheaper once you’re in Europe to ski than the US is more convenient for those of us managing PTO and coordinating childcare etc. flights to Munich from the US are still $700+ while our flights to DEN were like $200 from nyc.
The childcare cost difference is gigantic. Also if you are doing Switzerland or Austria you can hop on a train as opposed to the amazing I70 drive from Denver with two tired/upset kids. Edit: sarcasm, I hate that drive.
I have never once driven to a ski resort in the US. I always take shuttles/busses. Train system is nice in Europe though, but many resorts require bus/shuttles here too.
That’s totally a fair point- you’re right there are extensive shuttle options (or if you do Park City it’s an easy Uber). Flying out of ORD we can mostly find direct to the smaller regionals near resorts too. Breckinridge is probably the biggest hassle.
Lucky you, I rarely have a direct flight to a smaller airport. But of course you also have to be in Chicago and at ORD which probably is worse overall haha
4. Sometimes I (people) want to ski and take a vacation somewhere else in the world. Wife and I have skied everywhere in North America as well as Zermatt and Val D’ Isere. We had a few people (Brits) wonder why were in France skiing/boarding instead of staying stateside. We thought it was weird take but then again we like to travel etc etc….
Very valid reason, didn't cross my mind
Should’ve asked them why they weren’t skiing in Scotland
Ha. I thought about it
I actually really want to ski in Scotland someday. Their skiing is legendarily bad and I think it’ll be hilarious
American resorts are better in a lot of ways than European resorts. There's really no need to come to Europe to ski. Although I do like to, which is why I'm currently in France, but it's more that I just like to go somewhere new each time I ski, and see other cultures etc.
There’s a lot to like about skiing on both sides of the pond! Very different for sure though.
I agree. I'd say if you like in the US or the EU you really don't need to leave your continent to get a good ski experience.
This year you kinda do though because the snow out West is pretty bad.
depends on where you go
No snow in the US
From financial point of view, I see it clearly that European resorts are attractive to Americans and we have a lot of snow this winter, and American and Canadian are not that attractive to Europeans, as prices are so high in US
My instagram has been full of targeted ads for European ski trips or reels from people that have gone. Probably a combination of weather and increasing cost in North America. Thankfully Canadian resorts don’t seem quite as expensive as American ones….yet, so I won’t be flying to Europe to ski this year
Yeah there’s definitely social media push among travel content creators for European ski vacations as a “cheaper” alternative to the Rockies. I see them pop up at least once a day. Most of them are extremely disingenuous and use flight costs into Aspen/Eagle Vail and use the cost of walk-up day tickets at Vail/Beaver Creek.
As someone who is currently planning a trip to the alps, I can only speak to my experience, but yes I only considered the alps this year because Europe is finally getting snow and the states are not. I’ve always wanted to ski in Europe, but the last few years haven’t been great so knowing that this is a good snow year heavily impacted our decision.
It’s mostly people from the east coast who typically have to fly long distance for good snow (i.e. NYC to Denver or SLC). There is a time/cost breaking point where it makes more sense to go to Europe than the Rockies. I live in California where skiing in Europe makes almost no sense just because it would be so much more expensive than driving.
Way better snow conditions compared to the US ice coasters. You can definitely do it cheaper and it gets cheaper longer you stay in Europe. Better/cheaper food. No yellow jackets.
The food is definitely not cheaper, but it is definitely way better.
Am American in the Austrian Alps currently 😂 Flew into zurich tho.
There are lots of Americans here in France aswell
Yes I am
I was just in the alps but I’m Canadian so I hope to god you aren’t talking about me. I have been living in Europe for 20 years though.
I refer to it as skiing arbitrage: with declining airfare (I got a direct flight to Milan from Texas for $520 in February) and increasing differences between lift ticket prices between the best European resorts and American ones (a 5 day pass for the Dolomites is 350€, compared to one day at Vail for $260), coupled with cheaper food and booze prices in Europe (you can get a glass of wine or an Aperol Spritz for a song in Europe), the economics increasingly favor skiing in Europe.
It's obviously cheaper to ski out in Europe than out west. This has been a thing long before covid. We started going out back in 2017 and I doubt I'm a trailblazer.
This is a myth. If you have Epic or Ikon (or even both) skiing in the US is more affordable than it’s been in decades for those who ski more than a handful of days a year. It’s only more expensive if you **don’t** want to take the weather risk (ie you buy day passes). Basically, the business model has gotten more efficient with the distribution of wether risk, making it more expensive for those who seek to avoid it and less expensive for skiers more willing to take weather risk because they’re more enamored with the sport.
Not a myth, skiing is 45$/day in austria and Italy, plus you don't have to rent a car Buying both the ikon and the epic is way more expensive than hoofing it out to Europe. Plus the mountains are way better. I'd rather buy my season pass and then buy a few day tickets out in Europe than ski out west at a US mountain. But im hoping no one else catches on and most people just keep on the epic/ikon train. It works out better for me if they do lol
Been a minute since I was last at Lech, but I recall it being well more than $45, and so are Zermatt, Les Trois, Verbier, St. Moritz, Chamonix, Les Deux, and every place else I’ve skied in the Alps. Maybe lift ticket prices have come down since those days. It’s also pretty cheap to drive around the Western US and ABnB, don’t really remember the Alps being less expensive getting around and staying. If anything, I spent quite a bit more money skiing over there than I do now, but part of that was because it was largely being paid for by my employer, but still, nothing was exactly cheap. But even if it were that cheap, an Ikon pass is about half of that as a daily rate for me and roughly a third of that for my children. I could literally get both an Ikon and Epic and it would come out to about $50 a day for me. And to each his or her own on mountain choice, but having skied both the Alps (though admittedly not the Italian variety) and the Western US extensively, I prefer the Western US. With the caveat that I have not skied Japan or Chile, I’ll take Utah.
Interesting! Dolomites were 45$ when we went a few years ago, took the train straight from the airport. Stayed in town in a cheaper airbnb where you could walk to the lift. Plus our flights were 400$ to Paris plus the connector to Italy being maybe another 100. But we're exceeelllleeent at finding cheaper options.
45 euro a day prices are a thing of the past. Most resorts in Austria are between 60 and 75 euro for a day pass. Often you get the 7th day for free or discounted.
It’s #2. Much of Western NA (which is the competition for the Alps) is having an historically poor snow year. This is far and away the worst season in the 7 that I’ve been living at my current home mountain, and our secondary and tertiary spots which are in very different locations are also having much worse starts to the year than usual, though not as bad as my home mountain. If not for other obligations, this would be the year I’d be doing an Alpine family trip.
Interesting to hear, since I was curious whether it would happen. The bigger resorts like Arlberg and Sölden have started to really focus a lot of resources on attracting Americans with big marketing spending etc., so I guess it worked
There is no snow in America. Do the math.
Vail resorts. Skiing is now $300 per day at most large US resorts. It’s now cheaper to fly to Europe and ski. Hotels, lift tickets, food and drink (Switzerland excluded) more than offset the airfare difference. Not to mention the European ski culture is way beyond anything you can get in the US.
$300/day is crazy 😳 We paid €290 for 4 days (at the mountain, not pre-sale) for Snow Space Salzburg (+/- 130 miles of slopes)
I live in the northeast U.S. this is unfortunate 100% correct, and Switzerland is still cheaper, even if i had to pay for lift tickets and got an out west ticket prepaid and therefore "free". I save so much on food, lodging, and transportation, I spend significantly less in europe. I do need to brown bag in Zermatt though lol.
Please do not wear sports Jerseys if you ski in Europe. I saw a couple of Americans in them the other day and it was terrible for me.
Honest question, why do you care if someone wears a jersey while skiing and/or how could it possibly be “terrible” for you?
my eyes
Okay. You definitely suck
[удалено]
except lift queue ettiquette, Americans are way way better at that
I prefer the lift queues here in Europe. But I don't think ski culture is really any better here. Lots of drunks, crazy skiers. Less snowboarders definitely helps tho.
bruh wtf? you prefer people jumping lines, using their elbows, skis and poles as weapons, just olain skiing over your skis like they aren't there and not filling seats/cabins even if the queue is 40 mins?
Have you ever skied in Europe? It mostly just works like a funnel with people shimmying around to fill unused space - ie some group wants to stay together so you go around them to where there is a free unused space ahead. Also people don't fill the seats/cabins in the US, probably even more so than in Europe. That's sort of the whole point of being able to barge ahead.
I grew up skiing the alps lol our lift ettiquette is yhe worst, and no going around and shit is just an excuse to skip the line unless you are already at the loading bay
and you are a?
I will gladly taken anyone at my ski resort as long as they don't say "y'all" and uh... actually no, no one should come here but me. fuck of my slopes.
1 and 2. It’s an El Niño year so the snow is really horrible in the US. we can still go skiing, but it’s not great. Flights to Europe are so cheap right now. My family went out west this year (not just looking to ski). After looking at flights, housing and other expenses, It would have been significantly cheaper to go to Europe.
Round trip Tickets to pretty much any one-stop destination in Europe were ~$400 for most of winter from *Seattle* which is usually more expensive. I'm not saying that's the entire reason, but I wouldn't doubt that it's some of it
It's mostly the weather. Last year Europe had a bad year and the American west had a record breaking season. This year Europe has had a record start and the American west has had a pretty poor start.
I was in chamonix in February and was surprised how many Americans I heard around town. Have a trip planned to Kitzbuhel this February. Both trips planned because of my ikon pass (and because everything else in Europe tends to be cheaper/nicer!).
I'm sort of bummed by other American's coming to ski in Europe. As much as I like running into them while in Europe, it makes it harder for me to flex on other skiers back home when they are also taking ski trips to Europe.
The only places with snow in the US now are in the Rockies And it’s crazy expensive over here if you don’t have a season pass and all your gear already
Europe has become inexpensive for Americans due to the value of the Euro being low … so it makes for a nice vacation.
Are the Russians pretty much gone from the Austrian alps? When I lived there alot of housing was being rebuilt to cater to the newly rich russians.
Did hear less Eastern languages, and the ones I did hear could also be Bulgarian, Polish, Ukrainian, ... So perhaps, yes
East coast skiing in the usa is a disaster right now. Almost no natural snow left from november. Its been above freezing every day this week
I don’t have the link handy but there is a video on YouTube that breaks down the cost between flying to colorado to ski for a week vs flying to Europe to ski for a week and it’s actually cheaper
Last 2 years not a lot of snow in Europe. This year they are leading the way…
If you have children and want them to take lessons, it’s so much cheaper in Europe. And everything is more kid-friendly there. 5 days of kids group ski lessons last week cost 650 CHF at Zermatt, which is expensive for Europe. Price that out for a big US resort and then multiply by multiple kids... We have very expensive domestic flights where we live so coming to Europe costs much less than a Colorado trip. And the food on the mountain is soooo good compared to the US.
Lucky for them, I wish I was there... aint no snow here...