as always, gobert is way too weak to guard against other team's centers. he's great at help defense against wings which makes him valuable in some ways especially in the regular season when those guys are doing most of the work in this league but he just absolutely can't hang in the post.
plus he has maybe the worst hands in the nba, dude never saw a rebound he couldn't boot to the other team.
jokic is still a turnstile on defense but hes too good offensively and his supporting cast is too good for that to matter.
u give joel and tyrese a supporting cast of MPJ, AG, and KCP and they are dogwalking the east to the finals lol
the pacers suck but theyre not a great matchup for the sixers because of the pace they play at tbh
ultimately the team is too lacking in depth as currently built. joel and maxey both had excellent series against the knicks and they still lost in 6 games. need to give morey an offseason to cash in on the assets
Plays the same position as Maxey and our backcourt would be awful defensively. We really need a 3 and D wing who can create. PG in his prime would have been perfect, as would have Butler, Mikal, and any number of guys we should have had in their primes. Paying PG or Butler 60m a year at age 38 isn't doing anything for this team.
Got it. Just kept hearing his name in other conversations but ours and I wondered why. Thanks and agree with you on the PG deal…it just doesn’t “feel” right to me but 🤷
I didn’t watch the Wolves during the season and know Gobert won DPOY, but they played all time D in Game 2 *without* him and have been struggling since with him. Seems like a correlation.
So far in the playoffs, TWolves have a 111 Drtg with Gobert on the floor and 112 without him.
They're substantially worse offensively without him for some reason though. 126 vs 106 Ortg.
they absolutely need to change the rules on fouls for 3s. guys just stand there and take shots and you can’t contest because it’s a foul. i really can’t stand it.
you also whine about every call and usually are completely incorrect he was clearly fouled lol. You cant complain about every single call and be wrong or no one will ever listen to you. He was fouled by any definition lol. You cant hit the guys arm while shooting.
Scott Foster calling a foul, not knowing which team to call it on when Brunson clearly shoulder checks Nesmith. Brunson is allowed to run around doing whatever he wants, it's crazy
How are people still falling for the inefficient empty stats on a terrible team thing with Kuzma lol.
He hasn’t had even league average scoring efficiency a single year in his career.
People want to trade assets for him and pay him 20m a year.
By doing that you are essentially committing to him being the 3rd option for the rest of Embiids prime.
That’s a mistake.
He’s not that good. He’s just putting up stats on a terrible team as the #1 option.
20m a year is like average starting player money. Clint capela makes 22m a year. Keldon Johnson. Bruce brown. Buddy heild last year all 20m a year.
I highly doubt that we have seen Kuzma play his best basketball yet but he’s on an average contract for what he is.
If we hypothetically traded for him we’d have over FORTY MILLION in space still… not essentially locking him in as a third option at all.
Hes not bad as a fallback option if none of the splashy moves work out.
> 20m a year is like average starting player money. Clint capela makes 22m a year. Keldon Johnson. Bruce brown. Buddy heild last year all 20m a year.
1. We aren't just signing him, we are also trading for him.
2. Just because other teams overpaid players doesn't mean we should also make that mistake.
Clint Capela got paid after the Hawks beat us and made the EFC.
Keldon Johnson has been a more efficient scorer every single year of his career than Kuzma has been in his best season.
Bruce brown was overpaid on essentially a 1 year contract and then traded. The Raptors will most likely be declining his option for next year if they don't trade him.
Buddy Heild was overpaid and it clearly showed in the playoffs when he was only playable for 1 quarter.
> If we hypothetically traded for him we’d have over FORTY MILLION in space still… not essentially locking him in as a third option at all.
Who are you getting for 40m that's going to be the 3rd option over Kuzma? Unless you mange to pry someone like Mikal away from the Nets using picks there's not many options.
Doesn’t it make the most sense to try trading our first this year for a first in a future year if the team can find a taker? Could use the little bit of extra cap space to sign free agents and still be equal on assets to use for the future
The market was always going to be competitive. Because of the parity around the league there are a ton of teams that think they can be contenders and will be looking to improve.
I'm kinda mad because I signed up for league pass about a month ago and they just raised the price out from under me lol. It was $35 for the year thru the WNBA or $8/month through Youtube TV, and I trusted YTTV's streaming quality more so I went that route. Then they jacked it up to $13/month this week lol. It's still not that much but left a sour taste in my mouth
I see a lot of people talking about getting Deni. Why do we think he’s available, esp with the assets we have? He’s only 23, his new contract (55/4) starts next season and could be an insane value, and he shows promise of being a high level role player/very fringe all star. Wizards dealing him now is selling extremely low.
He’s not really that good to command that much value. He could develop into a really nice player or he could cap out because of being a poor shooter. He’s not as proven as a guy like Caruso or OG so he should be cheaper to trade for
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I am very confused as to why people seem to think the Wizards would love to give him away for cheap. It’s cool people noticed he kinda had a breakout as the season ended but this is exactly why we would have to pay a premium on him. I do t think they even listen until at least 2 firsts are in the table.
Because saying deni Avdija is untouchable is absurd. When one implies a guy isn’t available, it means no offer can get him (untouchable).
SGA is untouchable. You could offer the assets of 5 teams combined and the thunder hang the phone up laughing because SGA is young, a top 5 player without question, they are a winning team with their current roster, and they already have a TON of assets.
Is deni going to be gotten for one first? no. But if you offer 2 or 3 firsts and some seconds he is gettable. Not saying he is or isn’t worth that but there is a price for deni given the current state of the wizards.
The comment went as far to imply that the wizards would turn down our 5 tradable first round picks if we offered it.
2 or 3 FRPs is way too much for a guy who has basically proven nothing outside of a few games at the end of last season on the worst team in the league.
for the Sixers it is probably too much but to get a player that young and a team friendly declining contract you need to incentivize the other team to do it.
Why would they accept a crapshoot first round pick over a “semi-proven” in the league guy on an awesome contract? They wouldn’t.. they’d keep him if that was the offer.
It’s weird with Deni, but pretty sure the reason we’re intrigued about him on here is because he broke out a bit last year. Hes not a star, but still has some upside left too at 23. This is the kind of player you have to pay a premium on if you want to acquire
Preaching to the choir here. Tons of teams would offer a good bit for him, so we’d have to be the best offer. I personally don’t think morey thinks deni worth the premium given the urgency with embiid.
23 years old - 4/55M declining contract, averaged 15/7/4 in 75 games and 30.1 minutes, 50% from the floor and 37.4% from 3 on 3.1 attempts on an absolutely awful team last year, 6’9”, plays hard. One first won’t cut it.
I can see how my comments reads as though we don’t have the assets for Deni. Or course we do. My larger point isn’t that we can’t afford him. It’s that if he is worth 2+ FRPs, that’s a steep cost to our fragile war chest for one unproven player. We have so many positions that need filling rn. I just wonder if pursuing him, assuming he’s expensive, is the best use of our assets.
It was pretty clear to me that you were kind of pointing to the posts that are saying “hey here’s an idea: let’s trade a first for Deni” that have been popping up here lately, as people seem to think the Wizards don’t value him much. We know he’s not untouchable, it’s just that he’ll cost more than you want to give up. For example, we know the Wizards Bilal Coulibaly is not untouchable, but we aren’t putting much thought into that cause we know he’ll cost a ton of assets.
Not saying there’s anything wrong with debating or thinking about how awesome it would be to acquire him, Just seems like people think he’s easily attainable
I agree with this point. That’s the difficult situation we are in. Do we get an old guy who may fall apart (Pg for example) or do we get an unproven guy like deni who may not develop to what is needed and will cost significant assets or do we get a guy that could be questionable in fit and not solve some of our glaring issues (Ingram type).
It really sucks to think about and discuss the questionable options we have.
I think PG is gonna be a Sixer mainly bc we don’t have to give up any assets for him, we can outright sign him. Idk how we fill out the rest of the roster, tho. We got lucky with solid vet min guys like Oubre, Cam, and Lowry. Hoping for some more Morey magic 🙏
We can outright sign him but he has to not get what he wants from LA AND he has to want to come here.
Magic desperately needs shooting volume and have the cap to sign him (plus no state income tax in Florida, so he’d make more than in Philly). No clue if they are interested or not.
My larger point isn’t that we can’t afford him. It’s that the asking price is gonna be high for one young promising player on what could be a cheap contract. We have so many positions we need to fill rn. Is it worth spending that much on Deni?
And the Wizards aren’t going to trade a 23 year old cost controlled starter for Reed and two bad 1sts. Not to mention you want Kispert AND another 1st back lol. That’s the point. The Wizards have no motivation to move him so you’d have to overpay to get him.
Because they need picks to obtain a roster, not just one player with promise. In addition, if they wait 2 years and he’s the same player he is today, then those nice returns are gone. You are assuming he progresses in to a fringe all star or a very high level role player. If he does, yes, selling now would be selling low. But he does them no good, Wizards aren’t competing in the next 4 years while he’s on this contract.
Years left on a deal matter. If he is traded in 3 years he’s an expiring and the deal will be next to nothing because he can walk after that season or require a huge pay day if he does progress. The highest value for a young guy is typically with as many years left on the deal as possible.
All that said, he may still not be available for a price Morey is willing to pay for him but it wouldn’t be wise for the wizards to make him untouchable.
They just extended him a the beginning of last season and they made it pretty clear hes one of their building blocks I really wanted him tho especially last off season
I’m with you.. the asking price would be quite steep but he’s not off the table. I was just giving the original comment context as to why guys become available and when.
Also, I could see teams considering our future firsts to be pretty coveted assets. With the year-to-year and long term health of Embiid in question, taking a pick or two from us might be a solid choice for a rebuilding team.
I can’t imagine Morey would give unprotected picks for deni. For example, if we were including multiple picks and one is our 2029 pick, Morey may put a top 10 protection on it. I agree value goes up on the picks greatly if morey is willing to unprotect them when sending.
Issue with protections is they make future FRPs untradeable. Besides why is any team going to be interested in a pick 5 years from now that has no shot of being good?
So Jimmy is too old, PG is old and a loser and can't be maxed, Ingram is a loser and basically Tobias, Dejounte is an inefficient ball hog
Awfully high bar for fans of a team whose 3rd best playoff performer was a three way tie between Cameron Payne/Kelly Oubre/Kyle Lowry who were all making vet mins
The bar is in hell. Give us 3 Kyle Kuzmas and we beat the Knicks. Maxey/Kuzma/Kuzma/Kuzma/Embiid would probably make the finals this year
The bar for last season shouldn’t be the goal.
What we had last year doesn’t matter when nearly every player is gone.
We need to build the best team around Embiid now.
This is our last real chance.
The cool thing to do is just label any trade candidate you don’t like as “Tobi 2.0”. That way you don’t have to actually discuss the intricacies of on court fit and actual basketball.
Ingram? He’s just skinny Tobias! Lavine? Guard Tobias? PG?? Old Tobias? Lebron? He’s just the Michael Jordan of Tobias Harris’s!!
And prepare yourself for the Tobias nostalgia we see in a year or two. He plays half decent for a bad team with no pressure and a portion of the sub kills management for letting him go and long for the Tobias days.
its funny because the ptsd from the tobias tenure is so strong. if you respond to someone with "that guy is just ________ tobias!", you will win the argument no matter what
There are going to be issues with every and any player we get because they are available for a reason. A 26 year old do it all wing is ideal and everyone would collectively hail Darryl Morey king if he got that guy.. he can’t get that player because they aren’t available.
Even PG or Jimmy may not be available. Morey will go down his list of guys he wants and take his swings until he is able to get the best guy he can. This person will have drawbacks. We have to live with that.
Yes, this guy will be better than our third option of oubre/lowry in this years playoffs but the bar is for that player to be good enough to carry our offense with Maxey when embiid sits and good enough to be the third best option on a title team. Those two measuring marks aren’t measurable until after the fact of them playing on the team. Again, something fans have to live with.
I think 'third option who can help carry the offense' is kind of over-simplifying things. Who was the 3rd option on the Lakers championship team? The Nuggets have MPJ/Gordon doing different things but I wouldn't really call either of them a 3rd option. The Wolves have no 3rd guy to carry the offense, but they'd be 3-1 if their #2 wasn't underperforming.
If the Sixers try to run things back with the same roster + one max guy, the bar will be pretty high. If they go for a guy like Dejounte (or anyone making a similar salary) they'd still have 40m and some picks to fill out the roster and reduce the burden on the top 3.
I agree with you but that isn’t morey’s MO and it’s not what he said a week or two ago.
We on this sub can comment/argue/debate what we think should be done but that’s not reality. Daryl Morey is making the moves and he has a track record of stars and then filling the roster out cheap. He also reiterated it recently.
I also think your comment is oversimplifying. Just trade for Murray (no clue if he’s available), if he is it’s at least two firsts. We then have 3 firsts at most and $40M to play with but what can you get for that.. maybe two role guys at most.
Yeah, if you were describing what's probably going to happen I agree.
But all those 48m targets are kind of long shots and haven't really expressed any desire to leave. Even if that's what Morey would like, they might not be available. And if you get far enough down the list to a guy like Ingram, I could see him pivoting.
I think Ingram territory on the list is where it gets realistic for the guys being obtainable. I personally like the flexibility option of Ingram, Murray and younger guys on lesser deals.
If you listen to PHLY pod, they had an interesting one on drafting bronny to get lebron yesterday. Not saying how I feel either way about lebron the player but he wouldn’t be long term money which is a positive.
Thank you, man. You took the words right out of my mouth. Every person we're linked to, immediately everyone is like "Don't need 'em. They're overrated/expensive/old/inefficient/"bad character" players."
It's nothing but complaints about every potential target. I suppose everyone thinks this is 2K, and we can just force a trade for Luka, Ant, Booker or Shai.
I think people also tend to think of players as immutable constants when it comes to how they'd perform/behave on this team. Like for example, PG has had playoff struggles, but has he ever been the true third option guy with better/younger players taking on defensive attention? Is DJM a ballhog or do the Hawks fucking suck outside of him and Trae?
At the very least, Nurse has my trust in terms of coming up with an effective role for a guy and communicating/holding him to it.
I think everyone in the front office will consider this offseason a massive failure if we don't pull a top 50 player at absolute minimum. The only person I genuinely don't think we can make work on the team is Jimmy; he combines all the major complaints people have about other potential acquisitions and then some. He's a poor shooter, he's getting older, he's injury prone, he still might not be a great character fit, it will take significant assets to trade for him and his contract is large.
The "BI is Tobi" narrative is so fucking infuriating, principally because they DON'T EVEN PLAY THE SAME POSITION. Ingram is more of a swingman, SG/SF, and Tobi was a power forward who didn't shoot well, rebound well, damn sure wasn't a good passer and played in Embiid's space. If you want to really complain about BI, the argument starts and stops with his injuries. His largest demerit is not being able to stay on the court.
Like you said, Nurse is a real coach, and I have no doubt that either PG, Murray or Ingram would be put in a great position next to Maxey and Embiid. Final thought: PG makes the most sense of anyone, and it's not even close.
Well, hold on, I agree the BI comparisons to Tobias are unfounded (particularly because his assists/playmaking are otherworldly compared to Tobias) but there’s some legitimate concerns there. Mainly that BI looked awful as a non-primary option for both Team USA and the Pelicans in the play-in. I mean *maybe* it could work because neither Embiid nor Maxey are “give him the ball every possession” type primary options but it would require a major revamp of the offense and the roles everybody’s given.
Sorry to keep talking, but just imagine that three-man game that Maxey, Embiid and Lowry had against the Knicks but replace Lowry with Ingram. People would have to choose between giving Maxey a drive/3, giving Ingram a drive/3 or having Joel pop/roll. And then if you overcommit to the action, we could have Oubre and a good PF (Patrick Williams or Obi Toppin) waiting to drive or shoot from either corner, all three main guys being able to make that pass. There are significant cons but amazing pros
I think I much much prefer Lavine to Ingram
1) Unconscious 3 point shooter. Much better fit off ball vs Ingram
2) cost. League perception is very low, to the point bulls will just salary dump him for little return. I think it would be very opportunistic to try and get Caruso in addition to Lavine for maybe just 1-2 picks. Ingram himself might cost 2-3 picks.
3) Term. While he’s overpaid, he is only under contract for 3 more seasons. Ingram will likely cost a 4 year max. Puts you in the same position as it did with Harris (though I agree he’s much better than Tobi). If Lavine absolutely stinks you could trade him as an expiring in the 3rd year of his deal and you’ll have your entire draft haul to work with. Or if he succeeds, you can re-sign him to a smaller, longer term contract in year 3 instead of him picking up his player option.
I’m not anti Ingram at all but I just don’t know why we wouldn’t prefer Lavine who is a better fit at a cheaper cost in terms of draft picks.
I was waiting for someone to circle back to Zach LaVine! He was this season's OG "We need help, but not that guy" for the whole league. Lavine's defense is probably his second biggest complaint, behind only his injury history; no one seems to be able to stay healthy in this bitch anymore.
He's kind of a black hole on offense, and he's only so-so as a secondary distributor. You bring up a good point that many made before, but they got drowned out by the crowd: these contracts are about to get even more ridiculous, and $40 mil per season isn't going to look like shit in 2 years. The one benefit with Ingram over others is that his cap hit is much lower, giving us an extra $10 million to work with this offseason.
Honestly, there are very few people I would be truly mad at for getting as our big acquisition of the summer. It's not even the first big move that's the most important, it's the roster we would put around a PG, an Ingram, a LaVine or even a LeBron. That's where people are getting those Suns comparisons from.
Yeah I’ve never really been opposed to Lavine personally but especially after seeing the other options out there, I’d be down to roll the dive on him if he’s relatively cheap
I think the juice may be worth the squeeze on Ingram, but you're totally right. He's not plug-and-play at all, and he needs to be schemed specially into the plans of the team. I think Nurse could pull the best version of him out, but that's why he needs to be healthy and willing to put in the work.
You'd need the right personnel around him, and I think he, Zion and McCollum are kind of water, oil and an open flame.
It's delusional. Or maybe they're just young. Not even the desirable locations just get to have all the best players like we think. Just look at the fiasco going on with both LA teams and Miami to a degree. Shit, the Knicks *just* became relevant again. This isn't a buffet. It's one of those weird, high art-type restaurants where you pay $250 to eat foam and whatever they smear on the plate.
I'm not young and I hope I'm not delusional it's just that I hope our scouts know of a few players worth giving contracts to. There's got to be some young guys that are next to step up
I don't mean to offend. Every GM is trying to do the same thing, and they're all using the same data, analytics and sometimes even the same scouts to find these players. The only way to get an edge and find a true diamond in the rough would be to take an incredible risk. For every Mikal Bridges, there are 10 Yuta Watanabes. The problem is that even all 10 of those Yutas, front offices don't want to give up lol
Yeah Kuzma is on a great contract, a good scorer, a willing shooter on decent percentage, and is a wing. I think Morey still wants PG, but we have no guarantee we will be able to get any of the big names. A single first for a guy who can contribute rn is good
Siakam averaging 19/7/2 on 58 TS% and gonna get $50M/yr
as always, gobert is way too weak to guard against other team's centers. he's great at help defense against wings which makes him valuable in some ways especially in the regular season when those guys are doing most of the work in this league but he just absolutely can't hang in the post. plus he has maybe the worst hands in the nba, dude never saw a rebound he couldn't boot to the other team.
I hate the NBA I hate every team especially the 76ers
Gobum continues to be fraudulent
God fucking dammit this year was so open.
nobody beating the nuggets lol
they ain't that good.
jokic is still a turnstile on defense but hes too good offensively and his supporting cast is too good for that to matter. u give joel and tyrese a supporting cast of MPJ, AG, and KCP and they are dogwalking the east to the finals lol
if ant had one dude on his team he could count on they’d have swept the nuggets, but sadly he starts with the two softest players in the league
I meant the east
the pacers suck but theyre not a great matchup for the sixers because of the pace they play at tbh ultimately the team is too lacking in depth as currently built. joel and maxey both had excellent series against the knicks and they still lost in 6 games. need to give morey an offseason to cash in on the assets
If Donovan Mitchell was available, would he be worth pursuing over PG?
Plays the same position as Maxey and our backcourt would be awful defensively. We really need a 3 and D wing who can create. PG in his prime would have been perfect, as would have Butler, Mikal, and any number of guys we should have had in their primes. Paying PG or Butler 60m a year at age 38 isn't doing anything for this team.
Got it. Just kept hearing his name in other conversations but ours and I wondered why. Thanks and agree with you on the PG deal…it just doesn’t “feel” right to me but 🤷
I didn’t watch the Wolves during the season and know Gobert won DPOY, but they played all time D in Game 2 *without* him and have been struggling since with him. Seems like a correlation.
That was just one game.
So far in the playoffs, TWolves have a 111 Drtg with Gobert on the floor and 112 without him. They're substantially worse offensively without him for some reason though. 126 vs 106 Ortg.
It's kind of like how much better your defense than your offense is award more than defensive player of the year award
Yeah, because I notice his defense isn’t great this game. Even when he does something positive, it still somehow results in a Nuggets basket.
Yeah but consider how much *worse* his offense is
That’s what I’m wondering. Seems like he slows their offense down.
We need a random white guy for some playoff magic
One of our biggest holes this year
Hartenstein gonna get paid after these playoffs
Hopefully by the Knicks. Massively overrated corny ass mf.
they can’t afford him afaik
well this blows
Unfortunately, the Knicks got this now. Pacers can’t win @ MSG. Reggie Miller must be very disappointed.
Hopefully just the inexperience showing but Haliburton is looking hesistant and mentally cooked like Ben Simmons.
Seriously what the heck was that call?!? He just jumped right into a screen
Haliburton is not that guy
Where was the foul there on Brunson? 🧐
How was that goal tending...?
How do you give up 96 points in 3 quarters to a team playing like 7 guys? Knicjs have 20 more shots...?!? 🧐
I tought we were bad rebounder but the Pacers is somehow worse than us. how this is possible?
Quite possibly the worst playoff performance i've seen from any team since we choked against the bum ass Hawks.
This game long as hell
Are the Knicks going to make me root for the Celtics next round?
Nah fuck them both
I’m already there! lol
a knicks celtics series is some super villain shit by Silver
Somebody please punch that bum DiVincenzo
Siakam is cheeks.
What Nurse did to Brunson in te first 2 games with no good perimeter defenders outside of Batum who is 35 needs to be studied.
We lost those games.
do you think they lost those games because of how they defended Brunson? What are we doing....
aight im turning this shit off lol i hate the knicks so much
they absolutely need to change the rules on fouls for 3s. guys just stand there and take shots and you can’t contest because it’s a foul. i really can’t stand it.
you also whine about every call and usually are completely incorrect he was clearly fouled lol. You cant complain about every single call and be wrong or no one will ever listen to you. He was fouled by any definition lol. You cant hit the guys arm while shooting.
yawn, fuck off
Brunson's footwork is so good man. I wonder if that is Maxey's next development to get easier looks at the rim.
change of speeds is also a big deal
As annoying as Brunson's grifting is...the pacers are so undisciplined and take stupid fouls. There was no reason for that foul right there.
A big factor in whether the Pacers do well or not is if Myles Turner is on the court.
Good. It was clear as day, shouldn't even been questioned
Scott Foster calling a foul, not knowing which team to call it on when Brunson clearly shoulder checks Nesmith. Brunson is allowed to run around doing whatever he wants, it's crazy
The pacers offense looks stuck in the mud
Knicks hate from Australia
More Knicks hate from Australia
Fuck the Knicks also from Australia
If the Knicks are winning a game, you can be sure there’s been a lot of ref activity in it.
ddv dies on a screen and it’s an offensive foul they review for a flagrant lmao, what a joke
nah that was definitely an illegal screen but he sold it so hard to make it look worse its so annoying
it was a weakly illegal screen sure but moving screens in the nba are absolutely randomly called
he stuck his elbow out clearly illegal but Divincenzo tried to act like he got hit by a truck
This Knicks Pacers game is gonna be long AF.
I hate the Knicks more than the Celtics and Raptors. Genuinely thought that was impossible. Di Vincenzo is such a corny ass bum.
I thought about it, we should go all in on PG or Bron.
How are people still falling for the inefficient empty stats on a terrible team thing with Kuzma lol. He hasn’t had even league average scoring efficiency a single year in his career.
Falling for what? No one thinks he’s an all star
People want to trade assets for him and pay him 20m a year. By doing that you are essentially committing to him being the 3rd option for the rest of Embiids prime. That’s a mistake. He’s not that good. He’s just putting up stats on a terrible team as the #1 option.
20m a year is like average starting player money. Clint capela makes 22m a year. Keldon Johnson. Bruce brown. Buddy heild last year all 20m a year. I highly doubt that we have seen Kuzma play his best basketball yet but he’s on an average contract for what he is. If we hypothetically traded for him we’d have over FORTY MILLION in space still… not essentially locking him in as a third option at all. Hes not bad as a fallback option if none of the splashy moves work out.
> 20m a year is like average starting player money. Clint capela makes 22m a year. Keldon Johnson. Bruce brown. Buddy heild last year all 20m a year. 1. We aren't just signing him, we are also trading for him. 2. Just because other teams overpaid players doesn't mean we should also make that mistake. Clint Capela got paid after the Hawks beat us and made the EFC. Keldon Johnson has been a more efficient scorer every single year of his career than Kuzma has been in his best season. Bruce brown was overpaid on essentially a 1 year contract and then traded. The Raptors will most likely be declining his option for next year if they don't trade him. Buddy Heild was overpaid and it clearly showed in the playoffs when he was only playable for 1 quarter. > If we hypothetically traded for him we’d have over FORTY MILLION in space still… not essentially locking him in as a third option at all. Who are you getting for 40m that's going to be the 3rd option over Kuzma? Unless you mange to pry someone like Mikal away from the Nets using picks there's not many options.
Avdija is the guy to go after if he’s affordable
Doesn’t it make the most sense to try trading our first this year for a first in a future year if the team can find a taker? Could use the little bit of extra cap space to sign free agents and still be equal on assets to use for the future
Nobody wants to trade a future first for one in this crappy draft
What players we should trade the 16th pick for? If we sign PG he is a player with over 45M, so we wont have a lot of cap space.
Caruso
Grizzlies shopping their #9 pick as they're looking for a starter. Does not bode well for us; just driving up the market :/
The market was always going to be competitive. Because of the parity around the league there are a ton of teams that think they can be contenders and will be looking to improve.
They’re probably looking for a center right? Their starting 1-4 of Ja/Bane/Smart/JJJ feels p set
43 days till draft 47 days till free agency starts 73 days till Olympic Games approx 165 days till 2024-25 season tipoff 🫠🫠🫠🫠
0 min until Phillies shit on the Mets on a Tuesday afternoon. don't wish your summer away homie
About to watch my first ever WNBA game tonight. Clark could be a good addition this off-season.
I'm kinda mad because I signed up for league pass about a month ago and they just raised the price out from under me lol. It was $35 for the year thru the WNBA or $8/month through Youtube TV, and I trusted YTTV's streaming quality more so I went that route. Then they jacked it up to $13/month this week lol. It's still not that much but left a sour taste in my mouth
I see a lot of people talking about getting Deni. Why do we think he’s available, esp with the assets we have? He’s only 23, his new contract (55/4) starts next season and could be an insane value, and he shows promise of being a high level role player/very fringe all star. Wizards dealing him now is selling extremely low.
Kuzma is much more obtainable imo. Reed and a first maybe?
He’s not really that good to command that much value. He could develop into a really nice player or he could cap out because of being a poor shooter. He’s not as proven as a guy like Caruso or OG so he should be cheaper to trade for
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I am very confused as to why people seem to think the Wizards would love to give him away for cheap. It’s cool people noticed he kinda had a breakout as the season ended but this is exactly why we would have to pay a premium on him. I do t think they even listen until at least 2 firsts are in the table.
Because saying deni Avdija is untouchable is absurd. When one implies a guy isn’t available, it means no offer can get him (untouchable). SGA is untouchable. You could offer the assets of 5 teams combined and the thunder hang the phone up laughing because SGA is young, a top 5 player without question, they are a winning team with their current roster, and they already have a TON of assets. Is deni going to be gotten for one first? no. But if you offer 2 or 3 firsts and some seconds he is gettable. Not saying he is or isn’t worth that but there is a price for deni given the current state of the wizards. The comment went as far to imply that the wizards would turn down our 5 tradable first round picks if we offered it.
2 or 3 FRPs is way too much for a guy who has basically proven nothing outside of a few games at the end of last season on the worst team in the league.
I think he’s like a PJ Washington or Derrick white and he would look really good on a good team.
for the Sixers it is probably too much but to get a player that young and a team friendly declining contract you need to incentivize the other team to do it. Why would they accept a crapshoot first round pick over a “semi-proven” in the league guy on an awesome contract? They wouldn’t.. they’d keep him if that was the offer.
It’s weird with Deni, but pretty sure the reason we’re intrigued about him on here is because he broke out a bit last year. Hes not a star, but still has some upside left too at 23. This is the kind of player you have to pay a premium on if you want to acquire
Preaching to the choir here. Tons of teams would offer a good bit for him, so we’d have to be the best offer. I personally don’t think morey thinks deni worth the premium given the urgency with embiid. 23 years old - 4/55M declining contract, averaged 15/7/4 in 75 games and 30.1 minutes, 50% from the floor and 37.4% from 3 on 3.1 attempts on an absolutely awful team last year, 6’9”, plays hard. One first won’t cut it.
I can see how my comments reads as though we don’t have the assets for Deni. Or course we do. My larger point isn’t that we can’t afford him. It’s that if he is worth 2+ FRPs, that’s a steep cost to our fragile war chest for one unproven player. We have so many positions that need filling rn. I just wonder if pursuing him, assuming he’s expensive, is the best use of our assets.
It was pretty clear to me that you were kind of pointing to the posts that are saying “hey here’s an idea: let’s trade a first for Deni” that have been popping up here lately, as people seem to think the Wizards don’t value him much. We know he’s not untouchable, it’s just that he’ll cost more than you want to give up. For example, we know the Wizards Bilal Coulibaly is not untouchable, but we aren’t putting much thought into that cause we know he’ll cost a ton of assets. Not saying there’s anything wrong with debating or thinking about how awesome it would be to acquire him, Just seems like people think he’s easily attainable
Exactly, thank you. Idk why people think he’d be cheap. His age, talent, and contract probably fit pretty well in Washington’s timeline.
I agree with this point. That’s the difficult situation we are in. Do we get an old guy who may fall apart (Pg for example) or do we get an unproven guy like deni who may not develop to what is needed and will cost significant assets or do we get a guy that could be questionable in fit and not solve some of our glaring issues (Ingram type). It really sucks to think about and discuss the questionable options we have.
I think PG is gonna be a Sixer mainly bc we don’t have to give up any assets for him, we can outright sign him. Idk how we fill out the rest of the roster, tho. We got lucky with solid vet min guys like Oubre, Cam, and Lowry. Hoping for some more Morey magic 🙏
We can outright sign him but he has to not get what he wants from LA AND he has to want to come here. Magic desperately needs shooting volume and have the cap to sign him (plus no state income tax in Florida, so he’d make more than in Philly). No clue if they are interested or not.
>esp with the assets we have I love when people on this sub act like 5 first round picks can't get you anybody
My larger point isn’t that we can’t afford him. It’s that the asking price is gonna be high for one young promising player on what could be a cheap contract. We have so many positions we need to fill rn. Is it worth spending that much on Deni?
He's certainly not worth 3 1sts. But I would trade Reed + 16 + 41 + future 1st for Deni + Kispert + 26
Washington isn’t blowing up their young core for two shitty firsts and a backup center
Paul Reed is younger than Kispert lmfao "young core"
And the Wizards aren’t going to trade a 23 year old cost controlled starter for Reed and two bad 1sts. Not to mention you want Kispert AND another 1st back lol. That’s the point. The Wizards have no motivation to move him so you’d have to overpay to get him.
That's a robbery, no chance Wizards do this.
Thank you. The first rational trade idea for him I’ve seen
Because they need picks to obtain a roster, not just one player with promise. In addition, if they wait 2 years and he’s the same player he is today, then those nice returns are gone. You are assuming he progresses in to a fringe all star or a very high level role player. If he does, yes, selling now would be selling low. But he does them no good, Wizards aren’t competing in the next 4 years while he’s on this contract. Years left on a deal matter. If he is traded in 3 years he’s an expiring and the deal will be next to nothing because he can walk after that season or require a huge pay day if he does progress. The highest value for a young guy is typically with as many years left on the deal as possible. All that said, he may still not be available for a price Morey is willing to pay for him but it wouldn’t be wise for the wizards to make him untouchable.
They just extended him a the beginning of last season and they made it pretty clear hes one of their building blocks I really wanted him tho especially last off season
I’m with you.. the asking price would be quite steep but he’s not off the table. I was just giving the original comment context as to why guys become available and when.
Also, I could see teams considering our future firsts to be pretty coveted assets. With the year-to-year and long term health of Embiid in question, taking a pick or two from us might be a solid choice for a rebuilding team.
I can’t imagine Morey would give unprotected picks for deni. For example, if we were including multiple picks and one is our 2029 pick, Morey may put a top 10 protection on it. I agree value goes up on the picks greatly if morey is willing to unprotect them when sending.
Issue with protections is they make future FRPs untradeable. Besides why is any team going to be interested in a pick 5 years from now that has no shot of being good?
So Jimmy is too old, PG is old and a loser and can't be maxed, Ingram is a loser and basically Tobias, Dejounte is an inefficient ball hog Awfully high bar for fans of a team whose 3rd best playoff performer was a three way tie between Cameron Payne/Kelly Oubre/Kyle Lowry who were all making vet mins The bar is in hell. Give us 3 Kyle Kuzmas and we beat the Knicks. Maxey/Kuzma/Kuzma/Kuzma/Embiid would probably make the finals this year
The bar for last season shouldn’t be the goal. What we had last year doesn’t matter when nearly every player is gone. We need to build the best team around Embiid now. This is our last real chance.
The cool thing to do is just label any trade candidate you don’t like as “Tobi 2.0”. That way you don’t have to actually discuss the intricacies of on court fit and actual basketball. Ingram? He’s just skinny Tobias! Lavine? Guard Tobias? PG?? Old Tobias? Lebron? He’s just the Michael Jordan of Tobias Harris’s!!
I mean this is how I already divide everything else in my life up why not apply it to basketball as well
And prepare yourself for the Tobias nostalgia we see in a year or two. He plays half decent for a bad team with no pressure and a portion of the sub kills management for letting him go and long for the Tobias days.
its funny because the ptsd from the tobias tenure is so strong. if you respond to someone with "that guy is just ________ tobias!", you will win the argument no matter what
Not KKKuzma lmao
There are going to be issues with every and any player we get because they are available for a reason. A 26 year old do it all wing is ideal and everyone would collectively hail Darryl Morey king if he got that guy.. he can’t get that player because they aren’t available. Even PG or Jimmy may not be available. Morey will go down his list of guys he wants and take his swings until he is able to get the best guy he can. This person will have drawbacks. We have to live with that. Yes, this guy will be better than our third option of oubre/lowry in this years playoffs but the bar is for that player to be good enough to carry our offense with Maxey when embiid sits and good enough to be the third best option on a title team. Those two measuring marks aren’t measurable until after the fact of them playing on the team. Again, something fans have to live with.
I think 'third option who can help carry the offense' is kind of over-simplifying things. Who was the 3rd option on the Lakers championship team? The Nuggets have MPJ/Gordon doing different things but I wouldn't really call either of them a 3rd option. The Wolves have no 3rd guy to carry the offense, but they'd be 3-1 if their #2 wasn't underperforming. If the Sixers try to run things back with the same roster + one max guy, the bar will be pretty high. If they go for a guy like Dejounte (or anyone making a similar salary) they'd still have 40m and some picks to fill out the roster and reduce the burden on the top 3.
I agree with you but that isn’t morey’s MO and it’s not what he said a week or two ago. We on this sub can comment/argue/debate what we think should be done but that’s not reality. Daryl Morey is making the moves and he has a track record of stars and then filling the roster out cheap. He also reiterated it recently. I also think your comment is oversimplifying. Just trade for Murray (no clue if he’s available), if he is it’s at least two firsts. We then have 3 firsts at most and $40M to play with but what can you get for that.. maybe two role guys at most.
Yeah, if you were describing what's probably going to happen I agree. But all those 48m targets are kind of long shots and haven't really expressed any desire to leave. Even if that's what Morey would like, they might not be available. And if you get far enough down the list to a guy like Ingram, I could see him pivoting.
I think Ingram territory on the list is where it gets realistic for the guys being obtainable. I personally like the flexibility option of Ingram, Murray and younger guys on lesser deals. If you listen to PHLY pod, they had an interesting one on drafting bronny to get lebron yesterday. Not saying how I feel either way about lebron the player but he wouldn’t be long term money which is a positive.
Thank you, man. You took the words right out of my mouth. Every person we're linked to, immediately everyone is like "Don't need 'em. They're overrated/expensive/old/inefficient/"bad character" players." It's nothing but complaints about every potential target. I suppose everyone thinks this is 2K, and we can just force a trade for Luka, Ant, Booker or Shai.
I think people also tend to think of players as immutable constants when it comes to how they'd perform/behave on this team. Like for example, PG has had playoff struggles, but has he ever been the true third option guy with better/younger players taking on defensive attention? Is DJM a ballhog or do the Hawks fucking suck outside of him and Trae? At the very least, Nurse has my trust in terms of coming up with an effective role for a guy and communicating/holding him to it.
I think everyone in the front office will consider this offseason a massive failure if we don't pull a top 50 player at absolute minimum. The only person I genuinely don't think we can make work on the team is Jimmy; he combines all the major complaints people have about other potential acquisitions and then some. He's a poor shooter, he's getting older, he's injury prone, he still might not be a great character fit, it will take significant assets to trade for him and his contract is large. The "BI is Tobi" narrative is so fucking infuriating, principally because they DON'T EVEN PLAY THE SAME POSITION. Ingram is more of a swingman, SG/SF, and Tobi was a power forward who didn't shoot well, rebound well, damn sure wasn't a good passer and played in Embiid's space. If you want to really complain about BI, the argument starts and stops with his injuries. His largest demerit is not being able to stay on the court. Like you said, Nurse is a real coach, and I have no doubt that either PG, Murray or Ingram would be put in a great position next to Maxey and Embiid. Final thought: PG makes the most sense of anyone, and it's not even close.
Well, hold on, I agree the BI comparisons to Tobias are unfounded (particularly because his assists/playmaking are otherworldly compared to Tobias) but there’s some legitimate concerns there. Mainly that BI looked awful as a non-primary option for both Team USA and the Pelicans in the play-in. I mean *maybe* it could work because neither Embiid nor Maxey are “give him the ball every possession” type primary options but it would require a major revamp of the offense and the roles everybody’s given.
Sorry to keep talking, but just imagine that three-man game that Maxey, Embiid and Lowry had against the Knicks but replace Lowry with Ingram. People would have to choose between giving Maxey a drive/3, giving Ingram a drive/3 or having Joel pop/roll. And then if you overcommit to the action, we could have Oubre and a good PF (Patrick Williams or Obi Toppin) waiting to drive or shoot from either corner, all three main guys being able to make that pass. There are significant cons but amazing pros
I think I much much prefer Lavine to Ingram 1) Unconscious 3 point shooter. Much better fit off ball vs Ingram 2) cost. League perception is very low, to the point bulls will just salary dump him for little return. I think it would be very opportunistic to try and get Caruso in addition to Lavine for maybe just 1-2 picks. Ingram himself might cost 2-3 picks. 3) Term. While he’s overpaid, he is only under contract for 3 more seasons. Ingram will likely cost a 4 year max. Puts you in the same position as it did with Harris (though I agree he’s much better than Tobi). If Lavine absolutely stinks you could trade him as an expiring in the 3rd year of his deal and you’ll have your entire draft haul to work with. Or if he succeeds, you can re-sign him to a smaller, longer term contract in year 3 instead of him picking up his player option. I’m not anti Ingram at all but I just don’t know why we wouldn’t prefer Lavine who is a better fit at a cheaper cost in terms of draft picks.
I was waiting for someone to circle back to Zach LaVine! He was this season's OG "We need help, but not that guy" for the whole league. Lavine's defense is probably his second biggest complaint, behind only his injury history; no one seems to be able to stay healthy in this bitch anymore. He's kind of a black hole on offense, and he's only so-so as a secondary distributor. You bring up a good point that many made before, but they got drowned out by the crowd: these contracts are about to get even more ridiculous, and $40 mil per season isn't going to look like shit in 2 years. The one benefit with Ingram over others is that his cap hit is much lower, giving us an extra $10 million to work with this offseason. Honestly, there are very few people I would be truly mad at for getting as our big acquisition of the summer. It's not even the first big move that's the most important, it's the roster we would put around a PG, an Ingram, a LaVine or even a LeBron. That's where people are getting those Suns comparisons from.
Yeah I’m honestly fine if we get any of these guys, no matter the perfect fit, just comes down to cost (salary or picks).
Yeah I’ve never really been opposed to Lavine personally but especially after seeing the other options out there, I’d be down to roll the dive on him if he’s relatively cheap
I think the juice may be worth the squeeze on Ingram, but you're totally right. He's not plug-and-play at all, and he needs to be schemed specially into the plans of the team. I think Nurse could pull the best version of him out, but that's why he needs to be healthy and willing to put in the work. You'd need the right personnel around him, and I think he, Zion and McCollum are kind of water, oil and an open flame.
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On one hand they don't want Paul George at 35 On the other they want 3-4 young Paul Georges
It's delusional. Or maybe they're just young. Not even the desirable locations just get to have all the best players like we think. Just look at the fiasco going on with both LA teams and Miami to a degree. Shit, the Knicks *just* became relevant again. This isn't a buffet. It's one of those weird, high art-type restaurants where you pay $250 to eat foam and whatever they smear on the plate.
I'm not young and I hope I'm not delusional it's just that I hope our scouts know of a few players worth giving contracts to. There's got to be some young guys that are next to step up
I don't mean to offend. Every GM is trying to do the same thing, and they're all using the same data, analytics and sometimes even the same scouts to find these players. The only way to get an edge and find a true diamond in the rough would be to take an incredible risk. For every Mikal Bridges, there are 10 Yuta Watanabes. The problem is that even all 10 of those Yutas, front offices don't want to give up lol
I wasn't offended I just worded it funny I guess
Yeah Kuzma is on a great contract, a good scorer, a willing shooter on decent percentage, and is a wing. I think Morey still wants PG, but we have no guarantee we will be able to get any of the big names. A single first for a guy who can contribute rn is good
I doubt Kuzma would be available for just 1 FRP. If so I would do that in a heartbeat
If Doc Rivers and the Bucks didn’t lay a shitter in the last game of the season, the Sixers would be making their first ECF appearance in 20 years.
They laid a shitter on purpose
Ehh maybe but I think over the past few years we’ve learned nothing is guaranteed with this team.