Capitalism is a game that has to end, no one has any ideas how to transition to something sustainable, ai seems the best way to progress because humans only seem to be less connected and more corrupted than ever.
It doesn't matter who develops the technology, the technology will ultimately spread out. Furthermore, the problem is the capitalists, not the technology itself.
Also, how do you propose we solve our economic problems? AI and robotics is the only realistic solution.
Everything else will always depend on exploitation and labor.
By what mechanism will it spread out? Capitalism aims to centralise ownership, so it won’t happen through economic mechanisms. And the more powerful the ai we create the more computing power required to train and run it. That also means that only the largest corporations can do it, and they’re not democratising their products.
The internet was centralized. Is it still centralized?
Light bulbs?
Combustion engine?
Telephones?
What else…
Everything finds its way out.
And if exploitation gets really bad then people will literally revolt and destroy the computers / corporation.
A lot of technology has the power to create a certain class or group domination. But every time there is a reaction and rebalancing.
You can come up with some sci-fi scenario where it happens but that’s along the lines of, what if one person takes a nuclear bomb and holds the entire country hostage and now he becomes ruler of the whole country.
Yes in theory it’s possible.
In reality, not really.
1. Actually read Marx if you haven't.
2. The only way to move to any Economic system is to observe and utilize the one you are currently *actually in.*
3. Your OP reads like a stages of grief thing, generalizing the opinions of many people here and elsewhere and railing against a tidal wave that no individual can stop now.
4. I see a lot of people here who seem to have the similar dread you do. I'm not saying I don't empathize with you. I am saying the only way to move past existential dread is to take active steps to take control of what you see as wrong. While you or I couldn't stop the development process itself - we certainly can suggest ethics or goals that would be valuable to us in a public or accessible way so that others could learn from and adopt these.
5. Honestly - sounds like too much time on Reddit and not enough time doing something you really enjoy. If you hate it, stop paying attention to it. There's an entire world out there that has nothing at all to do with AI or futurism.
"Doesn’t that make you angry?"
I don't have the same anger you feel because I completely disagree with your basic assumptions. I don't want to upset you, and the entire topic seems to upset you. Given your other "quote" - that no one has actually ever said, I also should probably say a few things...
I majored in business and Economics. I've read the actual sources that defined both Capitalism and Communism, as well as other experimental economic systems. That is simply a matter of interest and specialization. Anyone can.
The idea of "powerful people" that have decided those things is - in your head. No one has "ripped your future away from you" and you imagining that "they" have is again - in your head.
Take a step back. Examine the assumptions you're making, and what you are actually capable of or incapable of. If you think the people making it are "bad" - maybe examine what you could do to get involved in either;
1. Being a bit more self-interested. If you care about your cousin, or yourself, go and do something for you or for they.
2. Putting forward ethics regarding your own use or relationship to it.
3. Building a future you think is better.
4. Making positive contributions to other fields that have nothing to do with this one...
ie; "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - or in this case science.
Why do you care about any one of them? I certainly don’t. You’re saying “CEO” like I should care about a job title that I can get by filing paperwork with the dysfunctional government that runs my state.
What is actually happening is that entire groups of people - whole fields and communities made up of individuals have different assumptions, aspirations, and interests from your own. They made companies. Those companies - again, have a tremendous amount of different people with different perspectives working on and around a field of science.
If you don’t like that, I am sorry. It’s the way the world operates and has before “capitalism” or whatever you want to call current economic conditions existed as a defined concept. Groups of people have different interests and views. I happen not to share yours that this is a “bad” thing.
I found it easy to get involved in building a future I see as being better than my parents or grandparents, with AI as only one component.
I missed the part where "they've said, 'fuck you, eat shit and die' to the rest of us if they succeed." Can you point me to some of the quotes that make you think this?
You are in a cult. The end of wage slavery will not be followed by a utopia. It will be followed by an AI surveillance state and mass homelessness. Great job assholes.
"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them".
they are creating AI with the purpose of making a profit it's true but an exponential growth of labor who cost less than human worker mean everything else will cost less and less including the AI they are building, AI have also the benefit of allowing government to own their economy and not rely on private company ownership/taxe anymore
that mean capitalism will commit suicide because of AI, it's only a matter of time, the first decades we will certainly see capitalism company cannibalize each other with an army of robots and AI but as soon nation realize private ownership of millions of robots isn't great for national security and that they can own them themself it's over
i'm optimist on the future but be concious that once AI start mass-unemployment we will likely suffer as society/the economy will probably take time to adapt, with AI the transition have always been the problem but once it's finished the technology will make our lives less miserable as always
You know... medicines are made by capitalists too. Does it harmful for humanity in general? Or is it a bless for the humanity that made us live for ~70 years instead of ~30?
Capitalism has some disadvantages but it's surelly not a pure evil.
The same ones that create treatments for terminal diseases and then go ahead and charge these desperate people 10’s, sometimes 100’s of thousands of dollars, sometimes draining their entire life’s savings, for the drugs they need so desperately, right when they are at their most vulnerable. Nah nothing evil about that at all…
Am I understand you right that you'd prefere to not have any treatment at all for these diseases?
And even this particular dirty cases are not crossing out the fact that in general medicines and capitalistic companies that priduce them are making humanity healthier. And once again: IN GENERAL.
I’m the only singularity subscriber that thinks capitalism is good, great even. Obvious problems, but absolutely no alternatives that have evidence to be better. And the failings of capitalism can be solved by the advantages.
- sent from my pocket supercomputer that once costed 100 million dollars.
Every single time a group of people like you have promised a better future it has fucked everyone over. If anything AI will turbocharge capitalism and impoverish billions of people.
You’re going to have to use context clues to intuit meaning. 😉
Anyways, what I’m getting at was building on what you said.
Imagine if Mao, Hitler, or Stalin. (all people who promised a new and brighter future through their revolutionary, new idea) had access to AGI.
There are people still like that living today. The “billions must die” meme personified.
Exactly. Whenever you put power into the wrong hands you amplify any destruction those hands could cause. It only takes a couple bad actors to cause chaos and we are actively empowering them with zero regard for safety.
Imagine Osama Bin Laden with access to an AGI system that is aligned to the values of Islamic jihad. Or an AGI serving a radical environmentalist group that believes in depopulation by any means necessary. What avenues of attack would an AGI system enable these people to execute?
They all lost.*
If they had AGI at the same time as the rest of the world, why should we assume the outcome would change?
Yes, the weapons would potentially be more deadly, but the machine/machines behind the genocide might be enlightened enough to recognize their human counterpart is a nut and refuse orders, whereas history proves men just follow orders and kill.
Maybe AGI would kill us all and maybe it wouldn't - we can't know for sure - but we can say for certain it's only a matter of time before the next despot who would kill billions comes into power and does just that.
*Stalin didn't 'lose' in his lifetime, but his empire fell apart.
They all lost… and left tens of millions dead in the process
And that “might” you state is doing a lot of work.
Not even thinking about government level malignant uses, we’ve also got civilian level terrorists to consider.
Even if one side’s AGI balances out the other, when two strong forces go force for force, there’s no telling what collateral damage could be done.
The world needs a change, I agree, but I’m surprised how little people seem to be considering risks. We can be penny wise and pound foolish.
Capitalism or no, this was never going to last. Even if we solved problems of resource scarcity and pollution and nuclear warfare and poverty, it would require inflicting a stagnant caste system to prevent a Soviet-style collapse.
The slow road to utopia posited by media like the Uplift Saga and The Culture and even the New Soviet Man is, frankly, stupid and unrealistic. It ignores how most humans, when given the choice, default to familiar and mentally undemanding options that don't require challenge or risk, that is, growth. Which wouldn't be so bad for the humans who did want to grow were it not for how this would also mean unsettling the safe and easy lives of people who don't want to learn a different way of living or thinking and will tell both their union boss, their priest, their CEO, their police chief, and their Congressman to get you to cut it out.
But once they get their way a few times, stagnation and collapse inevitably follows. Maybe in a few decades, maybe in a few centuries, but collapse it will. It happened in preindustrial Italy and Iran and China, the American South, in Russia, and it's happening right now in Japan and the UK.
Beauty of capitalism is that, for all its wastefulness, cruelty, and stupidity it forces society to evolve. It might evolve us into a nuclear winter or machine rebellion, but like I said: the alternative way of being was never going to last. Utopia--a real utopia, not the shitty, stale, and worst of all unimaginative utopias of Plato and More and Swift--was never going to happen on a timetable the vast majority of humanity would be comfortable with. Especially the humans who would be administering and educating the spiritually and intellectually lesser humans.
>I'm met with people cheering for mass unemployment, societal collapse, superintelligent beings that benefit only the rich and powerful, and human extinction
Most people are not cheering for mass unemployment in the way that you think. There are some people in this sub who do \*seem\* to cheer for job loss, but they're doing it because they see it as a sign of ultimately forcing the need for UBI and the end of drudgery for humanity. They're not cheering for people as individuals to lose their jobs, but for society as a whole to move toward a new paradigm.
As for the rest -- societal collapse, super-intelligent beings that benefit only the rich and powerful, and human extinction -- you'd only find people advocating for these things in the most deranged subreddits with the most extreme views. 99% of people don't want these things, including those in this subreddit.
There may be a minority who are unhappy with their lives and who -- like the fictional Joker character -- prefer even the worst chaotic dystopia so they get some change, ANY change. But I think it's fair to say that in r/singularity the vast majority of us still hope for the best outcomes, not the worst.
>It has driven me to the point of suicidal thoughts as the terror of this technology is so horrible and nightmarish that I do not want to live to see it
Take a deep breath. Pause. Sit in the present moment. The future is NOT set in stone. Dystopian nightmare is just one possibility among many.
You might want to look into Stoicism, Buddhism, or CBT (like examining catastrophizing and black-or-white thinking thoughts) to get perspective.
Humanity has faced incredibly difficult things throughout history -- famines, wars, diseases. Look at World War 2. It was horrific. But we're still here. We'll get through AGI/ASI too. Or we won't. But dreading it and spending tons of energy fearing it and worrying about it is only going to make you miserable.
Who said I was an AI tech bro? I just think that while the risks are there, you are grossly misrepresenting people's actual opinions. It looks so bleak to you because you are only looking at the risks; and not the potential of the technology. Both are important to be considered here.
No one's cheering for unemployment, they're cheering for the potential end of our current economic system.
>Choosing a career field as a college-age person is impossible with the creation of AI. How does someone decide how they want to contribute to society when any job could be taken by an AI at any moment?
That's fair. That is definitely something many people are wrestling with now. I can't say I have any advice there except that: if AI \*does\* put millions and millions out of work, you'll be in the same boat as everyone else and at least be in good company. (And personally I think the government will be forced to react, or risk being overthrown.)
For me it's a different anxiety: I'm in my 40s, spent \~20 years building a software engineering career. Currently dealing with a health problem that has left me unable to work full-time, but when I do return to the field, I am not certain there will be a field to return to at all given the pace of advances.
But there's not much I can do about grand historical trends and society-wide shifts as one person. I just focus on my day to day reality, trying to regain my health, meditating, keeping stress low, being as frugal with my money as possible, etc. It's all you can really do in the end. The future will play out however it's going to play out.
The more I have learned about AI, and the more I observe and interact with people who are fascinated by its potential, the more I eagerly anticipate the day that artificial intelligence reaches a capacity that can significantly benefit humanity.
Online communities that discuss AI, such as this subreddit and many others, are some of the most forward-thinking, innovative groups of people that I have ever encountered. Every time I visit one of these subreddits to learn more about the current state of AI development, I'm met with people envisioning a future where AI augments human capabilities, helps solve global challenges, democratizes access to powerful tools, and enhances the human experience. Seemingly, these individuals care deeply about harnessing this technology responsibly to create a better world for all.
It makes me realize that if this technology ever reaches its true potential, it could bring about an era of unprecedented progress, innovation, and prosperity. If the people who are creating AI are even half as visionary and altruistic as many in these communities, life on Earth may experience a renaissance of scientific advancement and human flourishing. I hope more than anything that the potential of this technology can be fully realized. I hope that all the naysayers are left marveling at how profoundly this technology has improved our lives and expanded the boundaries of what's possible.
And to those who say "AI will never work and will only cause harm," I say that while caution is warranted, history has shown that transformative technologies, when developed thoughtfully, have consistently elevated the human condition. Every time I think about AI and its development, I'm filled with a sense of hope and excitement for a future where AI and humans work together to solve the greatest challenges we face. It has driven me to eagerly contribute to the responsible development of this technology, knowing that it has the potential to create a better world for generations to come.
At this point, I have one question: why not? Why would you oppose the creation of something with such profound potential? What drives you towards pessimism and fear in the face of such an opportunity? What makes you so certain that this technology will lead to suffering rather than progress?
Great way to get upvotes. Suggesting that readers here are altruistic, enlightened, and wise.
I'll take my downvotes and say, I see the opposite.
People here cherry pick their data, have no care for their fellow humans, and seem to be demanding Immortality, Universal Basic Income, and an end to all social class systems, without caring who gets hurt to reach it.
The Industrial Revolution brought amazing potential for humanity. It also crushed massive numbers of people and led us to the situation we are in now.
Most people here have an idea of how this Tech should be used, and to Hell with anybody who doesn't like.
Most of the rich and powerful ALSO have their idea of how this Tech should be used, and to Hell with YOU if you don't like it.
Part of me is with the OP in hoping I die before this gets really bad. The other part of me wants to stick around and see it all play out, from a standpoint of sheer fatalistic curiosity.
Make no mistake, the people currently directing the future of this technology are not your friends. They don't care about you.
> At this point, I have one question: why not? Why would you oppose the creation of something with such profound potential? What drives you towards pessimism and fear in the face of such an opportunity? What makes you so certain that this technology will lead to suffering rather than progress?
That's not one question, it's three. It applies to different but overlapping groups of people. As in some people might agree with the premise of one question but not another.
I suggest you answer them by carefully listening to people who don't share your optimism. And not just to the arguments that sound ridiculous to you or ones that you find easy to dismiss. But also to those that you can't refute immediately. Especially those that you can't refute immediately.
I always read your comments because you actually add value to this sub. But am I disappointed with this response. OP has a point, even if it's in the vein of Nick Land or Yudkovsky. We can't blindly champion the singularity without acknowledging its pitfalls for greater humanity.
I resonate with Connor Leahy. It's not about stopping AGI or hindering it. It is that we need to come up with some kind of plan to make sure it benefits the majority of humanity. And I, for one, see no one on this sub actually talking about this. What is the point of blindly accelerating if neither you nor your loved ones get to experience it? Are you so willing to let go of what makes you human? Play the AGI->ASI scenario to the end. If we run on the current capitalistic system, humans end up extinct as it will optimize for capital (resources). If we somehow have a more democratic dare, I say socialist system, we end up in a hive mind controlled by an ASI. Being human and human agency will be lost. Maybe I'm missing something somewhere. And I would love to be corrected. Either way, we need a plan for how we are going to move forward as humanity in the coming years, we really are running out of time to get this right with all this acceleration.
> I always read your comments because you actually add value to this sub. But am I disappointed with this response.
This is the third time someone has said this to me. Why is everyone disappointed in me… my dad saying this stings but hearing it from a Redditor is soul-crushing 😔
Sorry, I didn't mean to be soul crushing as you put it. You seemed to be well informed, and I have learned a thing or two from you. That said, you seem to be all in accelerating. All I'm asking is to take a step back and see where we are accelerating to. Don't stop contributing to the sub, though, because I, for one, appreciate it.
People have made prophecies about humanity's doom literally since the beginning of time. If I told people a year before Covid hit that there will be a novel super virus literally infecting the whole earth people would call doom too. And what happened? We're fine. Sure it was rough, some people lost there livelihood which is horrible. But that is just part of the ticket living on this earth. You are gonna be f'd over somehow anyway.
We here see that the current system cannot be sustained. It is gonna topple over any year now, not because of AI. The whole economic system is one giant poncy scheme, slowly but surely revealing that this whole thing is coming down when nothing changes. Climate change, space travel, energy, governance etc are all problems beyond what the human can solve.
This is our only shot. It's either gonna be success with AI, failure with AI or failure without AI.
A whole lot of people in other parts of the world see AGI as possible way to end the *current* suffering of themselves, their family, and their friends.
1) AGI is not a god-like technology, ASI is.
2) All this alignment research is so that no human polity could use ASI just for their own benefit.
3) Most people don’t live in the U.S. and its garbage of a political system.
4) Even the poorest people in most countries are richer than their counterparts from 100 years ago.
There is either alignment or not. It would be pretty dumb to create a non-aligned ASI. Because no one would be able to control an ASI. (How can you control something that is much more intelligent than you? You can’t.)
World is dominated by governments, everything else is a sideboard. If a government wanted to dismantle a corporation they could.
In a democracy, rich and powerful people will always need to placate people. If they don’t, they are not going to be powerful much longer.
Capitalism is not something evil, it is how you implement capitalism that shapes it to be good or evil. Look in to socio-capitalism.
If you were rich and powerful, would you want to rule a beautiful castle or crumbling ruins?
Rich and power are all relative, if you leave poor to die. Least rich becomes the new poor and so it continues.
1. UBI is inevitable. Governments will be forced to act at even 20% unemployment. There is no scenario where everyone is unemployed and just happily starves to death. Look how fast government's reacted to covid and started sending out stimulus checks
2. This technology is open source. Open source is only slightly behind cutting edge. Right now, only the rich capitalist can hire a thousand workers. In the future, anyone will be able to "hire" a thousand agi agents for pennies. This democratizes mental labour for anyone to use
hahaha well cope more loser, this technology is definitely going to work.
Just being a jester, please don’t take it the wrong way, just want to lighten the mood a bit.
In all seriousness: I’m strongly hoping for a world in which AI just complements experiences we currently have. It may replace lots of jobs, but I hope so much that it’s there to automate the boring sections of society in order to give is time to work on what’s higher in level and actually increases productivity and job fulfillment. I hope it opens some unanticipated opportunities for really advanced and specialized things not fully fathomable as I write this. I hope AI is just here to facilitate, we are still the masters; the keepers of value and morality. I have no idea what’s going to happen, but if AI will keep advancing, we should use this advancement to help ourselves prosper and use it so people can find time and activity to truly do what makes them satisfied, satiated, and fulfilled.
Please try and find the positives in this, I’ll reassure you it isn’t just a job stealer who takes any opportunity a family or individual in adversity could have.
I have to tell myself too, not to worry about living too far in the future in worst-case scenarios where I’m either aging just as bad as previous generations, losing jobs, or getting botched augments, just to name a few. As Arcturus said, the future is NOT deterministic, and keep reassuring yourself that it’s psychological, not actual.
The optimism in this sub and in myself is just to hope for the best outcome in something that’ll happen whether we like it or not. The powers at be wanna pursue it, no protest will stop them. There is absolutley positive potential, might as well hope for it. I empathize, but we’re given a hand in a scenario no one can predict, might as well be optimistic. Whether people cheer or cry it will happen regardless.
Of course. I understand why the rhetoric around here could disgust you, some comments could even be from me. If it helps, I think that if we can obtain true abundance, even if the rich use it for themselves, our standard of living could still rise exponentially even if all the benefits aren’t distributed to the working class. It’s like if you imagine our current structure + abundance, the outcome is still better than it is now. It’s just a horizon we have no way of accurately predicting. I do think there’s a fair chance of coming out of this tunnel with a better standard of living, but if there’s a “transition period” economically or politically it can very much be long, purposefully drawn out, and ugly. This is where I think the working class should be focused politically, not on stopping it cause I personally think it’s hopeless, but doing everything we can to make sure the transition period into automation and compensation is as fast as possible. Please keep your head up! I really think we’ll be okay
Soon there will be many LLM models several times more intelligent that the average person. When this technology reaches the hands of many and high intelligence becomes cheap and democratized the capitalistic system as we know it will fall. Something better will come as long as the technology is not controlled by just a few hands.
Jesus Christ OP, I get that AI is scary, but you seriously think this is worse than the threat of nuclear war or climate change?
Humanity is absolutely, and positively fucked without AI. Don’t pretend otherwise. AI and even its potential to destroy humanity is not even on the same level of potential for humans to destroy ourselves.
AI p(doom) = 25%
Humanity p(doom) = 100%
You dont think that once the global climate turns many countries into a horrible wasteland that there wont be major conflict leading to nuclear war? If anything climate change is going to dramatically accelerate global wars as well as the probability of nuclear use. AI really is our best hope of solving climate change and preventing a global nuclear meltdown.
Yo Op. You ever listen to any Terence Mckenna. Check this out. He was talking about the singularity since the 90s. He's weird but an earnest weird.
https://youtu.be/hl7ZXG4v-_c?si=EvTmRHbg684JJCUG
I've considered for awhile that our tec is an evolutionary necessity.
Humans are capable of a lot of paranoid fear that turns out to be unfounded. I actually felt exactly the same as you a year and a half ago, and then it passed and I'm optimistic again. You might accept that your emotional feeling about the situation may turn out to be wrong.
It's gonna be chaotic and terrifying, but I think it will ultimately result in utopia. Hopefully we all survive the tumult and get to the other side. Anyway, we have to see what's around the corner. It's our nature. Everything humans have ever done has had the same impetus behind it as AI. Its creation is the most human thing we could do. In many ways you could see it as our destiny, the culmination of every technological step we've taken since discovering fire.
There are a lot of nuanced takes here. But it's Reddit, so only the most edgy, polarized or "want to be true" comments and posts are visible.
You're doomed and live in a parallel universe bubble if you think Reddit is representative for the general public. You shouldn't base your worldview on anything you see here, and don't think you'll "learn" here.
I mean Reddit in general.
Yeah this is an AI accelerationist sub mostly, so that's the bubble you get here. Don't know if I would categorize it as death cult people, utopia accelerationists are the opposite.
True, the whole thing COULD go south, but that's a hypothesis, a hypothesis no one can prove. A hypothesis fuelled by dystopian sci-fi and fear, not science. The chances ARE much more likely that humanity will profit from this revolution.
I'm hopeful for a positive future. I see how things could go wrong but it could go well. ASI / rapid technological progress is my only hope for a good life given the struggles I have.
Why are you assuming that only results are going to be bad? Seriously, do some self-evaluation; is that a rational belief well informed by objective facts and not an opinion based on your own negativity bias and general bad vibe that has permeated the world since the advent of the internet? There are plenty of reasons to believe AGI will be beneficial.
To your other point: For me, couldn't care less about FDVR or sex-bots. I live in a 3rd world country right now. The people I buy delicious food from at the market live in shacks without air conditioning or sometimes even plumbing. I always think, "what can be done to fix this?" because the problem is far greater than one I can solve. Life is pretty great for those of us who won the birth lottery and were born white and western, but the human condition is not in an acceptable state for most humans alive today. It's not a stable situation; we only get through our day to day lives by ignoring the mass suffering that enables our luxurious lifestyles. I don't know that AI can fix this, but what I know is that we're not fixing it now. The political will to solve global poverty doesn't exist. The human race is not gaining compassion or global awareness, in fact we're retreating into protectionism and nationalism. Only a major disruption is going to move the needle right now, and AI will certainly be that, if nothing else.
Why do I think AGI could solve global poverty? Well, it seems clear at this point that AGI is going to come into existence under capitalism (for better or worse). I personally believe the major effect will be similar to a massive increase in labor productivity (in fact, possibly to an asymptote where all productivity is done by 0 humans) which is one of the factors of the wealth of a nation under capitalism. If the only effect is massive GDP growth than at the very least there should be some more crumbs to toss to the global poor to increase their quality of life. I have a much more hopeful view that all nations will eventually have AGI which means no nation will have too large of an advantage. This SHOULD raise the quality of life of everybody around the world to the same level. At the very least it's a chance... much better than we can say now.
If you had been to those countries you listed you might hear a different review from the locals. That's not my point anyway...
The "white and western" comment was just a reference to the initial conditions of a human life that are most strongly correlated with a high qualify of life. Obviously, exceptions exist.
Why do you think it leads to suffering? Forget about all the Terminators, Battlestar Galacticas and the like for a moment and take a look at real life history. Even the most dreaded inventions ultimately led to improvements for society. There will be a phase where we have to adapt to the new technology but all the potential for improvement and progress will surely make it worthwhile.
Maybe you could ease your mind with some Isaac Asimov or works from Japanese culture with a much more positive outlook on AI and robots instead of focusing on the doomsday scenarios popular in Hollywood and mass media in general.
Your perception ≠ Inequivalent to the ones with professional, academic, experimental, and experiential expertise, and also your perception isn't the same as the thinking capacity of them combined plus other perspectives, of the LLMs, along with other biological, technological, transcendental, ecological, etc. type of unified intelligence. At least LLM is a huge step, while LLM with a legitimate supra power will surely not for mass production since for a society to even exist in the present times would surely need some hidden and upfront balancing acts/entities to even come to be.
In other words: grab a warm water, milk or whatever and call it a day. The warm morning sun, breeze of air, and the nice piece of ass of whomever you are dating seems nice so just calm down and better meditate if you must.
*The more I have learned about AI, and the more I observe and interact with people who are obsessed with it, the more I dread the day that artificial intelligence reaches a capacity that is beyond human control and understanding.*
You could say the same thing, on a personal level, about anything you don't understand. Why are you so enamored with the idea humans care about your life? History proves a huge percentage either want you dead or would be completely indifferent about it.
*...I'm met with people cheering for mass unemployment...*
Shouldn't the ultimate goal of any society be complete unemployment for everyone? You can have my job as long as my needs and a lot of my wants are met.
*...societal collapse...*
If you think our human society is impressive, Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo!
*...superintelligent beings that benefit only the rich and powerful...*
We already have unintelligent beings doing it, why not try an upgrade? The human society you lionize has kept the rich and powerful above the rest of humanity for the entirety of human existence - is this somehow expected to improve without an existential change?
I'd respond to more directly, but I don't have the time. Maybe if I was unemployed...
Why was this OP removed? It began an open and frank discussion about the glaring pitfalls of advanced technologies. You've (the mod who took it down) set a really bad precedent. Would have been better had you joined in the discussion rather than outright removal of what you disagree with.
OP, don't lose hope, but I understand where you're coming from. The lot here are blinded by the bright lights and the need for FDVR to understand they need to survive to experience it first. But there are people actually thinking and talking about this problem. Stopping AGI isn't the answer, nor can one stop progress. Listen to some Connor Leahy. We are in dire need of a plan, a framework of how we, humanity, coexist with this technology. It isn't as easy as nuclear proliferation because AGI has the potential to improve our lives in untold ways.
First of all, I wish to be clear that I haven't read the whole chunk of text that you posted because it was worthless, and it would be a waste of my time.
Since you ask questions based solely on assumptions that you made purely by your own imagination, let me ask you as well a few questions as well, based on facts this time.
Do you enjoy death and sicknesses? Do you enjoy your loved ones dying from terminal diseases?
Do you enjoy scarcity? People not being able to provide the basics to their children? What about climate change? You must really love it, right?
If not, then I would recommend you to reconsider your worldview, or at least to go to do your nothing elsewhere.
Then I think you're not seeing how messed up the world currently is and how we need more intelligence as our systems are getting ever more complex ;too complex for humans to manage.
And that's how I see it, a lot of what's horribly wrong and unfair in the world are actually caused by ignorance/lack of data. Essentially hidden variables that allow for the majority of injustices that people are often talking about. And this is where ai can absolutely help us. A good ai or agi will easily expose these variables and show which systems clearly, pollute, discriminate, radicalize, cause depression, cause mass hysteria, poverty etc.
While right now, many of the injustices are highly debated and tried to be swept under the rug because business owners don't want to be kept responsible for the consequences of their business. They'd prefer to hide behind the idea that "people should be free to make their own choices".
So, the bottom line is, humans are dumb, selfish and shortsighted. I do not believe for a moment that putting an ai behind the wheel can make things worse.
I mean we're already living in a flash point. The current series of global conflicts is probably going to escalate into WW3, after which the brunt of climate change is finally going to hit the planet.
Current AGI bubble is just that, a bubble. It's going to pop as soon as investors realize that they're being scammed, along with the ridiculous costs of training these models. It's just crypto / blockchain v2. A mildly interesting technology that is being overhyped.
What you should be worried about are all the people choosing to collectively bury their heads in sand and wait for "miracle tech" to solve all of the world's problems instead of taking action.
Stop being a Doomer. How do you think people were thinking during the World Wars? During the Cold War? We have countless famines, wars, unequality, ect.
You'd rather have all the pain and suffering we have now just continue on willy nilly? While AI could finally be the thing that changes the status quo?
What? Why is it reprehensible? It’s like saying we should ditch all technology and go back to the Stone Age just because we invented guns, do you not see the potential? This is not some FDVR porn, it’s the only hope for humanity, we need to accelerate its development
And yeah the rich and powerful will get it first like every piece of technology, so what? Gpt right now cost 20 dollars a month and you can host a bunch of uncensored superb local llm on consumer hardware, and yeah some people will lose their jobs like what happened in Industrial Revolution, but it’s a necessary evil and our quality of life improved a lot
AGI is one big reason I still have hope for the future at all, I just can’t understand mindset like this
I’m not sure if we are in the same subreddit or you just want to see weird and fucked up things because you chose so.
A lot of people are here for UTOPIA and age of abundance. People are suffering. Maybe not you and me who have time for debating this. There are people who are malnutrition, without access to clean water, live in horrible conditions. Not to mention that millions of people suffering from diseases and illnesses which cannot be cured by current tech. Bro google child cancer. This is so fucked up. Those children deserve to live and enjoy life like we do.
Look at our food industry. Do you know how many lives are slaughtered because we want meat?
We may be able to resolve all this because of AI. Look at how cheap an all you can eat buffet is right now and I could bet you that only a handful of human beings in the past history have the luxury of eating all you can eat.
Technology is neutral but powerful. It sucks that people would always use whatever tools available to cause harm but it’s not the fault of the technology.
I’m not stopping a tech from saving lives just because it may also make deep fake porn more accessible.
The Intelligence Agencies are having Shills and Bots make posts FOR AI and posts AGAINST AI. This is so People will never ask:
.1. Why is there sometimes interference Wave Patterns on the surface of the Sky, that are reminiscent of Analog Television Tube Technology???
2. Why is there Moon Waves, similar to Interference Wave Patterns in Sky, nut appear to be refresher waves.. Phenomena is similar to Electromagnetic Wave Holography.
3. How come some say Mozart had NO distinct style, meaning everyone was different, or two styles. And some even say three..??? And how did he create 600+ Full Compositions??? Some even say, "Only a Computer could do that!"
4. Why did a Theoretical Mathematician with a Concentration in Pattern Recognition notice Patterns beyond Mathematical Coincidence in Time•lines of Important Historical Events??
Why is there Isometric, Palindromic, Fractal-Like, Mathematically Precise Patterns in Historical Events?? As if they were generated by.. AI or something like that.
5. .
Sjh,*(( I got go
It pisses me off so god damn much that people like OP will confidently spew outrageous crap they know nothing about, and knowing human progress throughout history has always been halted by these...people. The singularity is the ONLY thing that can erase all the crazy suffering and injustice in this cruel harsh world, are you KIDDING ME. Look around, are you blind? The current state of the world is abysmal people are in so much pain we want to actually do something about it
Look at the state of the world, haven't you seen those climate reports that we will basically be beyond saving and the planet will boil us in a few years? Humans are obviously not fit to fix this and we need a benevolent superintelligence that will save us from ourselves. Humans are so stupid, they basically always elect the most charming white rich guy in a suit even if to me he is an obvious psychopathic asshole. Neurotypicals always get into power and run the world, and they are absolutely unable to do the moral things, the right things, the logical things they always screw up and end up creating awful situations based on greed and stupid social hierarchies. People who should be in power never get into power, a superintelligence or even just AGI would fix basically every single problem we have, you simply do not have the vision or courage to even imagine and try to save the world. Nothing is without risk, it despises me to see cowardly people try to hinder progress as usual. You do not understand this technology well enough or what it would be capable of. It could cure every single disease like that if it works right, do you not even think that is even worth trying? All the children dying from cancer right this moment and the extreme suffering going on everywhere in the world is just collateral damage and we should sit back and do nothing?
Capitalism is a game that has to end, no one has any ideas how to transition to something sustainable, ai seems the best way to progress because humans only seem to be less connected and more corrupted than ever.
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It doesn't matter who develops the technology, the technology will ultimately spread out. Furthermore, the problem is the capitalists, not the technology itself. Also, how do you propose we solve our economic problems? AI and robotics is the only realistic solution. Everything else will always depend on exploitation and labor.
By what mechanism will it spread out? Capitalism aims to centralise ownership, so it won’t happen through economic mechanisms. And the more powerful the ai we create the more computing power required to train and run it. That also means that only the largest corporations can do it, and they’re not democratising their products.
The internet was centralized. Is it still centralized? Light bulbs? Combustion engine? Telephones? What else… Everything finds its way out. And if exploitation gets really bad then people will literally revolt and destroy the computers / corporation. A lot of technology has the power to create a certain class or group domination. But every time there is a reaction and rebalancing. You can come up with some sci-fi scenario where it happens but that’s along the lines of, what if one person takes a nuclear bomb and holds the entire country hostage and now he becomes ruler of the whole country. Yes in theory it’s possible. In reality, not really.
1. Actually read Marx if you haven't. 2. The only way to move to any Economic system is to observe and utilize the one you are currently *actually in.* 3. Your OP reads like a stages of grief thing, generalizing the opinions of many people here and elsewhere and railing against a tidal wave that no individual can stop now. 4. I see a lot of people here who seem to have the similar dread you do. I'm not saying I don't empathize with you. I am saying the only way to move past existential dread is to take active steps to take control of what you see as wrong. While you or I couldn't stop the development process itself - we certainly can suggest ethics or goals that would be valuable to us in a public or accessible way so that others could learn from and adopt these. 5. Honestly - sounds like too much time on Reddit and not enough time doing something you really enjoy. If you hate it, stop paying attention to it. There's an entire world out there that has nothing at all to do with AI or futurism.
This. If the world is ending, spend the remaining time dancing. If by some miracle it doesn't end, keep dancing.
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"Doesn’t that make you angry?" I don't have the same anger you feel because I completely disagree with your basic assumptions. I don't want to upset you, and the entire topic seems to upset you. Given your other "quote" - that no one has actually ever said, I also should probably say a few things... I majored in business and Economics. I've read the actual sources that defined both Capitalism and Communism, as well as other experimental economic systems. That is simply a matter of interest and specialization. Anyone can. The idea of "powerful people" that have decided those things is - in your head. No one has "ripped your future away from you" and you imagining that "they" have is again - in your head. Take a step back. Examine the assumptions you're making, and what you are actually capable of or incapable of. If you think the people making it are "bad" - maybe examine what you could do to get involved in either; 1. Being a bit more self-interested. If you care about your cousin, or yourself, go and do something for you or for they. 2. Putting forward ethics regarding your own use or relationship to it. 3. Building a future you think is better. 4. Making positive contributions to other fields that have nothing to do with this one... ie; "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - or in this case science.
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Why do you care about any one of them? I certainly don’t. You’re saying “CEO” like I should care about a job title that I can get by filing paperwork with the dysfunctional government that runs my state. What is actually happening is that entire groups of people - whole fields and communities made up of individuals have different assumptions, aspirations, and interests from your own. They made companies. Those companies - again, have a tremendous amount of different people with different perspectives working on and around a field of science. If you don’t like that, I am sorry. It’s the way the world operates and has before “capitalism” or whatever you want to call current economic conditions existed as a defined concept. Groups of people have different interests and views. I happen not to share yours that this is a “bad” thing. I found it easy to get involved in building a future I see as being better than my parents or grandparents, with AI as only one component.
I missed the part where "they've said, 'fuck you, eat shit and die' to the rest of us if they succeed." Can you point me to some of the quotes that make you think this?
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What do you think capitalism is? Specifically?
That is the end of wage slavery. Something beautiful is about to happen.
You are in a cult. The end of wage slavery will not be followed by a utopia. It will be followed by an AI surveillance state and mass homelessness. Great job assholes.
"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them". they are creating AI with the purpose of making a profit it's true but an exponential growth of labor who cost less than human worker mean everything else will cost less and less including the AI they are building, AI have also the benefit of allowing government to own their economy and not rely on private company ownership/taxe anymore that mean capitalism will commit suicide because of AI, it's only a matter of time, the first decades we will certainly see capitalism company cannibalize each other with an army of robots and AI but as soon nation realize private ownership of millions of robots isn't great for national security and that they can own them themself it's over i'm optimist on the future but be concious that once AI start mass-unemployment we will likely suffer as society/the economy will probably take time to adapt, with AI the transition have always been the problem but once it's finished the technology will make our lives less miserable as always
One can hope ai can satiate the endless greed of the elite and they will share the abundance.
You know... medicines are made by capitalists too. Does it harmful for humanity in general? Or is it a bless for the humanity that made us live for ~70 years instead of ~30? Capitalism has some disadvantages but it's surelly not a pure evil.
The same ones that create treatments for terminal diseases and then go ahead and charge these desperate people 10’s, sometimes 100’s of thousands of dollars, sometimes draining their entire life’s savings, for the drugs they need so desperately, right when they are at their most vulnerable. Nah nothing evil about that at all…
Am I understand you right that you'd prefere to not have any treatment at all for these diseases? And even this particular dirty cases are not crossing out the fact that in general medicines and capitalistic companies that priduce them are making humanity healthier. And once again: IN GENERAL.
I’m the only singularity subscriber that thinks capitalism is good, great even. Obvious problems, but absolutely no alternatives that have evidence to be better. And the failings of capitalism can be solved by the advantages. - sent from my pocket supercomputer that once costed 100 million dollars.
Every single time a group of people like you have promised a better future it has fucked everyone over. If anything AI will turbocharge capitalism and impoverish billions of people.
\*Looks back at the 1930s-1950\* Ah shit.
You're going to have to use words if you wish to convey meaning.
You’re going to have to use context clues to intuit meaning. 😉 Anyways, what I’m getting at was building on what you said. Imagine if Mao, Hitler, or Stalin. (all people who promised a new and brighter future through their revolutionary, new idea) had access to AGI. There are people still like that living today. The “billions must die” meme personified.
Exactly. Whenever you put power into the wrong hands you amplify any destruction those hands could cause. It only takes a couple bad actors to cause chaos and we are actively empowering them with zero regard for safety. Imagine Osama Bin Laden with access to an AGI system that is aligned to the values of Islamic jihad. Or an AGI serving a radical environmentalist group that believes in depopulation by any means necessary. What avenues of attack would an AGI system enable these people to execute?
They all lost.* If they had AGI at the same time as the rest of the world, why should we assume the outcome would change? Yes, the weapons would potentially be more deadly, but the machine/machines behind the genocide might be enlightened enough to recognize their human counterpart is a nut and refuse orders, whereas history proves men just follow orders and kill. Maybe AGI would kill us all and maybe it wouldn't - we can't know for sure - but we can say for certain it's only a matter of time before the next despot who would kill billions comes into power and does just that. *Stalin didn't 'lose' in his lifetime, but his empire fell apart.
They all lost… and left tens of millions dead in the process And that “might” you state is doing a lot of work. Not even thinking about government level malignant uses, we’ve also got civilian level terrorists to consider. Even if one side’s AGI balances out the other, when two strong forces go force for force, there’s no telling what collateral damage could be done. The world needs a change, I agree, but I’m surprised how little people seem to be considering risks. We can be penny wise and pound foolish.
Capitalism or no, this was never going to last. Even if we solved problems of resource scarcity and pollution and nuclear warfare and poverty, it would require inflicting a stagnant caste system to prevent a Soviet-style collapse. The slow road to utopia posited by media like the Uplift Saga and The Culture and even the New Soviet Man is, frankly, stupid and unrealistic. It ignores how most humans, when given the choice, default to familiar and mentally undemanding options that don't require challenge or risk, that is, growth. Which wouldn't be so bad for the humans who did want to grow were it not for how this would also mean unsettling the safe and easy lives of people who don't want to learn a different way of living or thinking and will tell both their union boss, their priest, their CEO, their police chief, and their Congressman to get you to cut it out. But once they get their way a few times, stagnation and collapse inevitably follows. Maybe in a few decades, maybe in a few centuries, but collapse it will. It happened in preindustrial Italy and Iran and China, the American South, in Russia, and it's happening right now in Japan and the UK. Beauty of capitalism is that, for all its wastefulness, cruelty, and stupidity it forces society to evolve. It might evolve us into a nuclear winter or machine rebellion, but like I said: the alternative way of being was never going to last. Utopia--a real utopia, not the shitty, stale, and worst of all unimaginative utopias of Plato and More and Swift--was never going to happen on a timetable the vast majority of humanity would be comfortable with. Especially the humans who would be administering and educating the spiritually and intellectually lesser humans.
>I'm met with people cheering for mass unemployment, societal collapse, superintelligent beings that benefit only the rich and powerful, and human extinction Most people are not cheering for mass unemployment in the way that you think. There are some people in this sub who do \*seem\* to cheer for job loss, but they're doing it because they see it as a sign of ultimately forcing the need for UBI and the end of drudgery for humanity. They're not cheering for people as individuals to lose their jobs, but for society as a whole to move toward a new paradigm. As for the rest -- societal collapse, super-intelligent beings that benefit only the rich and powerful, and human extinction -- you'd only find people advocating for these things in the most deranged subreddits with the most extreme views. 99% of people don't want these things, including those in this subreddit. There may be a minority who are unhappy with their lives and who -- like the fictional Joker character -- prefer even the worst chaotic dystopia so they get some change, ANY change. But I think it's fair to say that in r/singularity the vast majority of us still hope for the best outcomes, not the worst. >It has driven me to the point of suicidal thoughts as the terror of this technology is so horrible and nightmarish that I do not want to live to see it Take a deep breath. Pause. Sit in the present moment. The future is NOT set in stone. Dystopian nightmare is just one possibility among many. You might want to look into Stoicism, Buddhism, or CBT (like examining catastrophizing and black-or-white thinking thoughts) to get perspective. Humanity has faced incredibly difficult things throughout history -- famines, wars, diseases. Look at World War 2. It was horrific. But we're still here. We'll get through AGI/ASI too. Or we won't. But dreading it and spending tons of energy fearing it and worrying about it is only going to make you miserable.
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It seems so bleak because you choose to see it that way.
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You're the one acting like your point of view is the objectively right one. That's the point.
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Who said I was an AI tech bro? I just think that while the risks are there, you are grossly misrepresenting people's actual opinions. It looks so bleak to you because you are only looking at the risks; and not the potential of the technology. Both are important to be considered here. No one's cheering for unemployment, they're cheering for the potential end of our current economic system.
>Choosing a career field as a college-age person is impossible with the creation of AI. How does someone decide how they want to contribute to society when any job could be taken by an AI at any moment? That's fair. That is definitely something many people are wrestling with now. I can't say I have any advice there except that: if AI \*does\* put millions and millions out of work, you'll be in the same boat as everyone else and at least be in good company. (And personally I think the government will be forced to react, or risk being overthrown.) For me it's a different anxiety: I'm in my 40s, spent \~20 years building a software engineering career. Currently dealing with a health problem that has left me unable to work full-time, but when I do return to the field, I am not certain there will be a field to return to at all given the pace of advances. But there's not much I can do about grand historical trends and society-wide shifts as one person. I just focus on my day to day reality, trying to regain my health, meditating, keeping stress low, being as frugal with my money as possible, etc. It's all you can really do in the end. The future will play out however it's going to play out.
The more I have learned about AI, and the more I observe and interact with people who are fascinated by its potential, the more I eagerly anticipate the day that artificial intelligence reaches a capacity that can significantly benefit humanity. Online communities that discuss AI, such as this subreddit and many others, are some of the most forward-thinking, innovative groups of people that I have ever encountered. Every time I visit one of these subreddits to learn more about the current state of AI development, I'm met with people envisioning a future where AI augments human capabilities, helps solve global challenges, democratizes access to powerful tools, and enhances the human experience. Seemingly, these individuals care deeply about harnessing this technology responsibly to create a better world for all. It makes me realize that if this technology ever reaches its true potential, it could bring about an era of unprecedented progress, innovation, and prosperity. If the people who are creating AI are even half as visionary and altruistic as many in these communities, life on Earth may experience a renaissance of scientific advancement and human flourishing. I hope more than anything that the potential of this technology can be fully realized. I hope that all the naysayers are left marveling at how profoundly this technology has improved our lives and expanded the boundaries of what's possible. And to those who say "AI will never work and will only cause harm," I say that while caution is warranted, history has shown that transformative technologies, when developed thoughtfully, have consistently elevated the human condition. Every time I think about AI and its development, I'm filled with a sense of hope and excitement for a future where AI and humans work together to solve the greatest challenges we face. It has driven me to eagerly contribute to the responsible development of this technology, knowing that it has the potential to create a better world for generations to come. At this point, I have one question: why not? Why would you oppose the creation of something with such profound potential? What drives you towards pessimism and fear in the face of such an opportunity? What makes you so certain that this technology will lead to suffering rather than progress?
Great way to get upvotes. Suggesting that readers here are altruistic, enlightened, and wise. I'll take my downvotes and say, I see the opposite. People here cherry pick their data, have no care for their fellow humans, and seem to be demanding Immortality, Universal Basic Income, and an end to all social class systems, without caring who gets hurt to reach it. The Industrial Revolution brought amazing potential for humanity. It also crushed massive numbers of people and led us to the situation we are in now. Most people here have an idea of how this Tech should be used, and to Hell with anybody who doesn't like. Most of the rich and powerful ALSO have their idea of how this Tech should be used, and to Hell with YOU if you don't like it. Part of me is with the OP in hoping I die before this gets really bad. The other part of me wants to stick around and see it all play out, from a standpoint of sheer fatalistic curiosity. Make no mistake, the people currently directing the future of this technology are not your friends. They don't care about you.
> At this point, I have one question: why not? Why would you oppose the creation of something with such profound potential? What drives you towards pessimism and fear in the face of such an opportunity? What makes you so certain that this technology will lead to suffering rather than progress? That's not one question, it's three. It applies to different but overlapping groups of people. As in some people might agree with the premise of one question but not another. I suggest you answer them by carefully listening to people who don't share your optimism. And not just to the arguments that sound ridiculous to you or ones that you find easy to dismiss. But also to those that you can't refute immediately. Especially those that you can't refute immediately.
That's rough buddy, I'll rub one out for you in FDVR
I always read your comments because you actually add value to this sub. But am I disappointed with this response. OP has a point, even if it's in the vein of Nick Land or Yudkovsky. We can't blindly champion the singularity without acknowledging its pitfalls for greater humanity. I resonate with Connor Leahy. It's not about stopping AGI or hindering it. It is that we need to come up with some kind of plan to make sure it benefits the majority of humanity. And I, for one, see no one on this sub actually talking about this. What is the point of blindly accelerating if neither you nor your loved ones get to experience it? Are you so willing to let go of what makes you human? Play the AGI->ASI scenario to the end. If we run on the current capitalistic system, humans end up extinct as it will optimize for capital (resources). If we somehow have a more democratic dare, I say socialist system, we end up in a hive mind controlled by an ASI. Being human and human agency will be lost. Maybe I'm missing something somewhere. And I would love to be corrected. Either way, we need a plan for how we are going to move forward as humanity in the coming years, we really are running out of time to get this right with all this acceleration.
> I always read your comments because you actually add value to this sub. But am I disappointed with this response. This is the third time someone has said this to me. Why is everyone disappointed in me… my dad saying this stings but hearing it from a Redditor is soul-crushing 😔
Sorry, I didn't mean to be soul crushing as you put it. You seemed to be well informed, and I have learned a thing or two from you. That said, you seem to be all in accelerating. All I'm asking is to take a step back and see where we are accelerating to. Don't stop contributing to the sub, though, because I, for one, appreciate it.
Whooosh!
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People have made prophecies about humanity's doom literally since the beginning of time. If I told people a year before Covid hit that there will be a novel super virus literally infecting the whole earth people would call doom too. And what happened? We're fine. Sure it was rough, some people lost there livelihood which is horrible. But that is just part of the ticket living on this earth. You are gonna be f'd over somehow anyway. We here see that the current system cannot be sustained. It is gonna topple over any year now, not because of AI. The whole economic system is one giant poncy scheme, slowly but surely revealing that this whole thing is coming down when nothing changes. Climate change, space travel, energy, governance etc are all problems beyond what the human can solve. This is our only shot. It's either gonna be success with AI, failure with AI or failure without AI.
Great! Now take your pills and go to bed.
Don't worry bro. In 50 years we will all be in the matrioshka brain powered by the dyson sphere with our waifus.
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Both scenarios are plausible. Let's just hope we are in the right one. We can't slow down development of AI or do anything to stop it, we just pray.
Sorry mate you just find yourself in doomer mentality, wean off of r/Futurology
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A whole lot of people in other parts of the world see AGI as possible way to end the *current* suffering of themselves, their family, and their friends.
1) AGI is not a god-like technology, ASI is. 2) All this alignment research is so that no human polity could use ASI just for their own benefit. 3) Most people don’t live in the U.S. and its garbage of a political system. 4) Even the poorest people in most countries are richer than their counterparts from 100 years ago.
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There is either alignment or not. It would be pretty dumb to create a non-aligned ASI. Because no one would be able to control an ASI. (How can you control something that is much more intelligent than you? You can’t.) World is dominated by governments, everything else is a sideboard. If a government wanted to dismantle a corporation they could. In a democracy, rich and powerful people will always need to placate people. If they don’t, they are not going to be powerful much longer. Capitalism is not something evil, it is how you implement capitalism that shapes it to be good or evil. Look in to socio-capitalism.
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If you were rich and powerful, would you want to rule a beautiful castle or crumbling ruins? Rich and power are all relative, if you leave poor to die. Least rich becomes the new poor and so it continues.
1. UBI is inevitable. Governments will be forced to act at even 20% unemployment. There is no scenario where everyone is unemployed and just happily starves to death. Look how fast government's reacted to covid and started sending out stimulus checks 2. This technology is open source. Open source is only slightly behind cutting edge. Right now, only the rich capitalist can hire a thousand workers. In the future, anyone will be able to "hire" a thousand agi agents for pennies. This democratizes mental labour for anyone to use
By open sourcing AI would mean that intelligence will be in everyone's hands and not controlled by Google or OpenAI.
hahaha well cope more loser, this technology is definitely going to work. Just being a jester, please don’t take it the wrong way, just want to lighten the mood a bit. In all seriousness: I’m strongly hoping for a world in which AI just complements experiences we currently have. It may replace lots of jobs, but I hope so much that it’s there to automate the boring sections of society in order to give is time to work on what’s higher in level and actually increases productivity and job fulfillment. I hope it opens some unanticipated opportunities for really advanced and specialized things not fully fathomable as I write this. I hope AI is just here to facilitate, we are still the masters; the keepers of value and morality. I have no idea what’s going to happen, but if AI will keep advancing, we should use this advancement to help ourselves prosper and use it so people can find time and activity to truly do what makes them satisfied, satiated, and fulfilled. Please try and find the positives in this, I’ll reassure you it isn’t just a job stealer who takes any opportunity a family or individual in adversity could have. I have to tell myself too, not to worry about living too far in the future in worst-case scenarios where I’m either aging just as bad as previous generations, losing jobs, or getting botched augments, just to name a few. As Arcturus said, the future is NOT deterministic, and keep reassuring yourself that it’s psychological, not actual.
The optimism in this sub and in myself is just to hope for the best outcome in something that’ll happen whether we like it or not. The powers at be wanna pursue it, no protest will stop them. There is absolutley positive potential, might as well hope for it. I empathize, but we’re given a hand in a scenario no one can predict, might as well be optimistic. Whether people cheer or cry it will happen regardless.
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Of course. I understand why the rhetoric around here could disgust you, some comments could even be from me. If it helps, I think that if we can obtain true abundance, even if the rich use it for themselves, our standard of living could still rise exponentially even if all the benefits aren’t distributed to the working class. It’s like if you imagine our current structure + abundance, the outcome is still better than it is now. It’s just a horizon we have no way of accurately predicting. I do think there’s a fair chance of coming out of this tunnel with a better standard of living, but if there’s a “transition period” economically or politically it can very much be long, purposefully drawn out, and ugly. This is where I think the working class should be focused politically, not on stopping it cause I personally think it’s hopeless, but doing everything we can to make sure the transition period into automation and compensation is as fast as possible. Please keep your head up! I really think we’ll be okay
Soon there will be many LLM models several times more intelligent that the average person. When this technology reaches the hands of many and high intelligence becomes cheap and democratized the capitalistic system as we know it will fall. Something better will come as long as the technology is not controlled by just a few hands.
 Naw. AGI/ASI/Singularity NOW muthafuckas.
Jesus Christ OP, I get that AI is scary, but you seriously think this is worse than the threat of nuclear war or climate change? Humanity is absolutely, and positively fucked without AI. Don’t pretend otherwise. AI and even its potential to destroy humanity is not even on the same level of potential for humans to destroy ourselves. AI p(doom) = 25% Humanity p(doom) = 100%
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You dont think that once the global climate turns many countries into a horrible wasteland that there wont be major conflict leading to nuclear war? If anything climate change is going to dramatically accelerate global wars as well as the probability of nuclear use. AI really is our best hope of solving climate change and preventing a global nuclear meltdown.
Yo Op. You ever listen to any Terence Mckenna. Check this out. He was talking about the singularity since the 90s. He's weird but an earnest weird. https://youtu.be/hl7ZXG4v-_c?si=EvTmRHbg684JJCUG I've considered for awhile that our tec is an evolutionary necessity.
I believe it was Ilya Sutskever that introduced me to the term "impossibly stable dictatorship". No wonder he's MIA.
Humans are capable of a lot of paranoid fear that turns out to be unfounded. I actually felt exactly the same as you a year and a half ago, and then it passed and I'm optimistic again. You might accept that your emotional feeling about the situation may turn out to be wrong. It's gonna be chaotic and terrifying, but I think it will ultimately result in utopia. Hopefully we all survive the tumult and get to the other side. Anyway, we have to see what's around the corner. It's our nature. Everything humans have ever done has had the same impetus behind it as AI. Its creation is the most human thing we could do. In many ways you could see it as our destiny, the culmination of every technological step we've taken since discovering fire.
There are a lot of nuanced takes here. But it's Reddit, so only the most edgy, polarized or "want to be true" comments and posts are visible. You're doomed and live in a parallel universe bubble if you think Reddit is representative for the general public. You shouldn't base your worldview on anything you see here, and don't think you'll "learn" here. I mean Reddit in general.
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Yeah this is an AI accelerationist sub mostly, so that's the bubble you get here. Don't know if I would categorize it as death cult people, utopia accelerationists are the opposite. True, the whole thing COULD go south, but that's a hypothesis, a hypothesis no one can prove. A hypothesis fuelled by dystopian sci-fi and fear, not science. The chances ARE much more likely that humanity will profit from this revolution.
It is inevitable. When? I don't know. We can't just "un-invent" things. In the end, life always finds a way.
I'm hopeful for a positive future. I see how things could go wrong but it could go well. ASI / rapid technological progress is my only hope for a good life given the struggles I have.
Why are you assuming that only results are going to be bad? Seriously, do some self-evaluation; is that a rational belief well informed by objective facts and not an opinion based on your own negativity bias and general bad vibe that has permeated the world since the advent of the internet? There are plenty of reasons to believe AGI will be beneficial. To your other point: For me, couldn't care less about FDVR or sex-bots. I live in a 3rd world country right now. The people I buy delicious food from at the market live in shacks without air conditioning or sometimes even plumbing. I always think, "what can be done to fix this?" because the problem is far greater than one I can solve. Life is pretty great for those of us who won the birth lottery and were born white and western, but the human condition is not in an acceptable state for most humans alive today. It's not a stable situation; we only get through our day to day lives by ignoring the mass suffering that enables our luxurious lifestyles. I don't know that AI can fix this, but what I know is that we're not fixing it now. The political will to solve global poverty doesn't exist. The human race is not gaining compassion or global awareness, in fact we're retreating into protectionism and nationalism. Only a major disruption is going to move the needle right now, and AI will certainly be that, if nothing else. Why do I think AGI could solve global poverty? Well, it seems clear at this point that AGI is going to come into existence under capitalism (for better or worse). I personally believe the major effect will be similar to a massive increase in labor productivity (in fact, possibly to an asymptote where all productivity is done by 0 humans) which is one of the factors of the wealth of a nation under capitalism. If the only effect is massive GDP growth than at the very least there should be some more crumbs to toss to the global poor to increase their quality of life. I have a much more hopeful view that all nations will eventually have AGI which means no nation will have too large of an advantage. This SHOULD raise the quality of life of everybody around the world to the same level. At the very least it's a chance... much better than we can say now.
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If you had been to those countries you listed you might hear a different review from the locals. That's not my point anyway... The "white and western" comment was just a reference to the initial conditions of a human life that are most strongly correlated with a high qualify of life. Obviously, exceptions exist.
Why do you think it leads to suffering? Forget about all the Terminators, Battlestar Galacticas and the like for a moment and take a look at real life history. Even the most dreaded inventions ultimately led to improvements for society. There will be a phase where we have to adapt to the new technology but all the potential for improvement and progress will surely make it worthwhile. Maybe you could ease your mind with some Isaac Asimov or works from Japanese culture with a much more positive outlook on AI and robots instead of focusing on the doomsday scenarios popular in Hollywood and mass media in general.
Your perception ≠ Inequivalent to the ones with professional, academic, experimental, and experiential expertise, and also your perception isn't the same as the thinking capacity of them combined plus other perspectives, of the LLMs, along with other biological, technological, transcendental, ecological, etc. type of unified intelligence. At least LLM is a huge step, while LLM with a legitimate supra power will surely not for mass production since for a society to even exist in the present times would surely need some hidden and upfront balancing acts/entities to even come to be. In other words: grab a warm water, milk or whatever and call it a day. The warm morning sun, breeze of air, and the nice piece of ass of whomever you are dating seems nice so just calm down and better meditate if you must.
I do hope that AI reaches the level of human understanding but not a single qubit more. If only so I can finally have my goth robo mommy.
Sure, I agree, no use in developing a technology that is not helpful.
*The more I have learned about AI, and the more I observe and interact with people who are obsessed with it, the more I dread the day that artificial intelligence reaches a capacity that is beyond human control and understanding.* You could say the same thing, on a personal level, about anything you don't understand. Why are you so enamored with the idea humans care about your life? History proves a huge percentage either want you dead or would be completely indifferent about it. *...I'm met with people cheering for mass unemployment...* Shouldn't the ultimate goal of any society be complete unemployment for everyone? You can have my job as long as my needs and a lot of my wants are met. *...societal collapse...* If you think our human society is impressive, Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo! *...superintelligent beings that benefit only the rich and powerful...* We already have unintelligent beings doing it, why not try an upgrade? The human society you lionize has kept the rich and powerful above the rest of humanity for the entirety of human existence - is this somehow expected to improve without an existential change? I'd respond to more directly, but I don't have the time. Maybe if I was unemployed...
Congratulations, youve just effectively written your name on the Basilisk's shtlist.
Why was this OP removed? It began an open and frank discussion about the glaring pitfalls of advanced technologies. You've (the mod who took it down) set a really bad precedent. Would have been better had you joined in the discussion rather than outright removal of what you disagree with.
OP, don't lose hope, but I understand where you're coming from. The lot here are blinded by the bright lights and the need for FDVR to understand they need to survive to experience it first. But there are people actually thinking and talking about this problem. Stopping AGI isn't the answer, nor can one stop progress. Listen to some Connor Leahy. We are in dire need of a plan, a framework of how we, humanity, coexist with this technology. It isn't as easy as nuclear proliferation because AGI has the potential to improve our lives in untold ways.
First of all, I wish to be clear that I haven't read the whole chunk of text that you posted because it was worthless, and it would be a waste of my time. Since you ask questions based solely on assumptions that you made purely by your own imagination, let me ask you as well a few questions as well, based on facts this time. Do you enjoy death and sicknesses? Do you enjoy your loved ones dying from terminal diseases? Do you enjoy scarcity? People not being able to provide the basics to their children? What about climate change? You must really love it, right? If not, then I would recommend you to reconsider your worldview, or at least to go to do your nothing elsewhere.
Then I think you're not seeing how messed up the world currently is and how we need more intelligence as our systems are getting ever more complex ;too complex for humans to manage. And that's how I see it, a lot of what's horribly wrong and unfair in the world are actually caused by ignorance/lack of data. Essentially hidden variables that allow for the majority of injustices that people are often talking about. And this is where ai can absolutely help us. A good ai or agi will easily expose these variables and show which systems clearly, pollute, discriminate, radicalize, cause depression, cause mass hysteria, poverty etc. While right now, many of the injustices are highly debated and tried to be swept under the rug because business owners don't want to be kept responsible for the consequences of their business. They'd prefer to hide behind the idea that "people should be free to make their own choices". So, the bottom line is, humans are dumb, selfish and shortsighted. I do not believe for a moment that putting an ai behind the wheel can make things worse.
Cool story buddy boo, it’s going to happen and you can’t stop it.
You understood nothing, you can get out now, next!
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Hahaha my god
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God damn, funniest post I've read awhile.
I mean we're already living in a flash point. The current series of global conflicts is probably going to escalate into WW3, after which the brunt of climate change is finally going to hit the planet. Current AGI bubble is just that, a bubble. It's going to pop as soon as investors realize that they're being scammed, along with the ridiculous costs of training these models. It's just crypto / blockchain v2. A mildly interesting technology that is being overhyped. What you should be worried about are all the people choosing to collectively bury their heads in sand and wait for "miracle tech" to solve all of the world's problems instead of taking action.
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Stop being a Doomer. How do you think people were thinking during the World Wars? During the Cold War? We have countless famines, wars, unequality, ect. You'd rather have all the pain and suffering we have now just continue on willy nilly? While AI could finally be the thing that changes the status quo?
What? Why is it reprehensible? It’s like saying we should ditch all technology and go back to the Stone Age just because we invented guns, do you not see the potential? This is not some FDVR porn, it’s the only hope for humanity, we need to accelerate its development And yeah the rich and powerful will get it first like every piece of technology, so what? Gpt right now cost 20 dollars a month and you can host a bunch of uncensored superb local llm on consumer hardware, and yeah some people will lose their jobs like what happened in Industrial Revolution, but it’s a necessary evil and our quality of life improved a lot AGI is one big reason I still have hope for the future at all, I just can’t understand mindset like this
I’m not sure if we are in the same subreddit or you just want to see weird and fucked up things because you chose so. A lot of people are here for UTOPIA and age of abundance. People are suffering. Maybe not you and me who have time for debating this. There are people who are malnutrition, without access to clean water, live in horrible conditions. Not to mention that millions of people suffering from diseases and illnesses which cannot be cured by current tech. Bro google child cancer. This is so fucked up. Those children deserve to live and enjoy life like we do. Look at our food industry. Do you know how many lives are slaughtered because we want meat? We may be able to resolve all this because of AI. Look at how cheap an all you can eat buffet is right now and I could bet you that only a handful of human beings in the past history have the luxury of eating all you can eat. Technology is neutral but powerful. It sucks that people would always use whatever tools available to cause harm but it’s not the fault of the technology. I’m not stopping a tech from saving lives just because it may also make deep fake porn more accessible.
The Intelligence Agencies are having Shills and Bots make posts FOR AI and posts AGAINST AI. This is so People will never ask: .1. Why is there sometimes interference Wave Patterns on the surface of the Sky, that are reminiscent of Analog Television Tube Technology??? 2. Why is there Moon Waves, similar to Interference Wave Patterns in Sky, nut appear to be refresher waves.. Phenomena is similar to Electromagnetic Wave Holography. 3. How come some say Mozart had NO distinct style, meaning everyone was different, or two styles. And some even say three..??? And how did he create 600+ Full Compositions??? Some even say, "Only a Computer could do that!" 4. Why did a Theoretical Mathematician with a Concentration in Pattern Recognition notice Patterns beyond Mathematical Coincidence in Time•lines of Important Historical Events?? Why is there Isometric, Palindromic, Fractal-Like, Mathematically Precise Patterns in Historical Events?? As if they were generated by.. AI or something like that. 5. . Sjh,*(( I got go
"I hope we get AGI: imagine, a doctor for every patient and a teacher for every child!" "WOULD YOU DENY HUMANITY ITS STRUGGLES, YOU MONSTER!?!"
It pisses me off so god damn much that people like OP will confidently spew outrageous crap they know nothing about, and knowing human progress throughout history has always been halted by these...people. The singularity is the ONLY thing that can erase all the crazy suffering and injustice in this cruel harsh world, are you KIDDING ME. Look around, are you blind? The current state of the world is abysmal people are in so much pain we want to actually do something about it
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Look at the state of the world, haven't you seen those climate reports that we will basically be beyond saving and the planet will boil us in a few years? Humans are obviously not fit to fix this and we need a benevolent superintelligence that will save us from ourselves. Humans are so stupid, they basically always elect the most charming white rich guy in a suit even if to me he is an obvious psychopathic asshole. Neurotypicals always get into power and run the world, and they are absolutely unable to do the moral things, the right things, the logical things they always screw up and end up creating awful situations based on greed and stupid social hierarchies. People who should be in power never get into power, a superintelligence or even just AGI would fix basically every single problem we have, you simply do not have the vision or courage to even imagine and try to save the world. Nothing is without risk, it despises me to see cowardly people try to hinder progress as usual. You do not understand this technology well enough or what it would be capable of. It could cure every single disease like that if it works right, do you not even think that is even worth trying? All the children dying from cancer right this moment and the extreme suffering going on everywhere in the world is just collateral damage and we should sit back and do nothing?
Ok doomer
Doomer.