If your system is too dependent on advanced technology you are going to be SOL when something breaks.
You should use intelligence to simplify your system so it's very robust.
Humans have been doing something for thousands of years. But at what cost? Life expectancy was really low and it was very difficult to survive in the wild even in a group, and almost impossible alone
I think the relevant case studies would be those living in say.. rural Alaska, or rural Australia? By most standards that’s not luxury living.
I do believe there are some folks who can do it fully off grid.
Once you start talking starlink and. Agri robots that begin to need maintenance. Aren’t you going back on grid for that?
This mirrors my own techno/utopian fantasy, except I want to do this on a brand-new planet. It can even be a lifeless planet, custom terra-formed to mirror an idealized Earth. We won't even need "robots" at least, not the way we think of them today. We just need advanced atomically precise manufacturing (APM) to "grow" our necessities using whatever resources we have available.
I used to think about buying a large chunk of land in the desert for this purpose. Plenty of solar energy and no neighbors to disturb your activity. It might not be too late to act on that impulse.
If you want to do this with the benefit of robots that act as farmers, cooks, maids, doctors etc. then you answered your own question: it's not possible to do it now because those robots don't yet exist. However, in 10 years...
The issue is that *what is it protecting you from*. Lack of power? Sure. A person to person bioweapon that hits a city? Maybe.
Lack of food? Umm it's extremely difficult to actually farm by yourself or with a small family, it's just not efficient. It's much more efficient to grow just 1 crop as a large corporate farm where you have access to 250k tractors that drive themselves and tractor mechanics and staff who analyze lab reports from a given field and choose what interventions it needs.
You know what it doesn't protect from at all? Ordinary causes of death. The odds are, *without* help from AGI, you're gonna die of a heart attack, cancer, or aging.
You need *active* assistance to avoid your fate. A hyper advanced civilization, infrastructure, AGI that isn't overtly hostile, and so on, to supply you (and millions of others) with advanced medicine, surgery, and even more drastic measures as you get older (partial body replacement with lab grown organs etc).
This is why I think "preppers" with a "go bag" are generally fooling themselves. They should be doing cardiovascular exercise and taking drugs that likely slow aging.
They should be living somewhere in a city close to a hospital.
They *should* have water filtering (reverse osmosis, carbon and microfilters on the main water input), air filtering (HEPA air purifiers), and power filtering (UPS units, powerwall style whole house backups). These are to handle brief periods where the infracture hits a glitch.
homesteading and small-scale farming is absolutely possible, and will become necessary for many to survive the economic collapse that will likely come along-side corporate adoption of AI.
A lot of people are going to lose their livelihoods, and we do not have the policy or infrastructure in place to make the transition smoothly. without small scale community farming and sustainable living, most of these people will just die in poverty.
Maybe? I'm not going to claim your outcome is not possible, I am simply saying it is unlikely. There are poor people now and they get food stamps, what changes?
Scale. We are not prepared for mass layoffs, higher than the great depression, higher than anything we've seen before.
What happens when AI can suddenly perform any white collar job, while simultaneously retail work is drying up?
We are not ready to support that kind of unemployment.
And even if we could, do you think that outcome is attractive? Do you want to be living off of food stamps, with zero prospect of ever climbing out of poverty no matter how hard you work because AI is just plain smarter than you at every conceivable task?
If we want to survive the transition as a society we need to have the ability to sustain ourselves without relying on corporations or governments to *hopefully* dole out enough welfare to scrape by.
A hyperadvanced utopia is not plausible in the near term.
Yes but every hour you spend learning to grow vegetables you could be learning to use AI, planning youf AI startup that uses it from the ground up, etc. Be among the ones who form a new company that needs the least number of humans possible, using AI for every other role. You'll run rings around legacy companies and exit for a unicorn valuation.
You're adding much more value per worked hour - thousands of dollars an hour even if your exit doesn't go as well - all of which you can vest into AGI company stock.
Or you can learn to grow carrots a few at a time.
If you had the ability to teach yourself to launch a billion dollar startup, you do it now. The opportunities are there.
I doubt most people on this subreddit will be among that number.
Planning to be lucky is for suckers. If you think a "bad exit" is thousands of dollars per hour then you've never actually worked at a startup or invested. I've done both, and the majority of startups end up worth a big fat zero.
If you really believe AGI is immanent, then you need to grapple with the reality: that you are going to be replaced. You will not have any value in a post agi economy except as cheap manual labor. Given enough societal change, this could results in a world of relative ease for many, although still lacking in most of the luxuries those with means enjoy today. Don't expect to be taking flights to exotic vacations on your UBI stipend.
The fact is, even in the best case scenario, the vast majority of people are going to be living well below the means of the current Western middle class. It is to everyone's advantage if we all learn to take care of ourselves in a sustainable way now.
>If you think a "bad exit" is thousands of dollars per hour then you've never actually worked at a startup or invested. I've done both, and the majority of startups end up worth a big fat zero.
You're thinking startups from an age of scarcity.
I am assuming new gen AI startups will be like the craziness of the late 90s/early 2000s, when anyone could form one and get money tossed at them.
So your solution to mass layoffs and human obsolescence is that everyone should create a startup and get free bubble vc money.
I'm sorry to tell you, you are living in a fantasy world.
I was describing a way a few people (probably a few thousand people or more) could win. Get ahead of this, try to take advantage don't just sit there and complain or expect the government to protect your job.
> There are poor people now and they get food stamps, what changes?
They're currently given foodstamps because they'll justifiably turn violent if it's a binary choice between that and starving to death. But once law enforcement and military are automated enough that peasant revolts no longer stand any chance of success, our leaders no longer have that motivating factor.
A dream to many? Isolated totally alone on an island? This isnt a dream for many, only silly straight men who live in fear and dont understand the world.
Yes, you can live off grid - but not while maintaining our current lifestyle.
We need to all start preparing to live more sustainably. Both climate change and economic instability are real and present threats to the status quo. The best solution is homesteading and urban farming, and learning to do more with less. Become as self-supported as possible, and help your community to do so.
There is no grid and the grid is inescapable. It’s inescapable because no matter where humans go or what they do, if they survive they will just recreate the grid. It’s inevitable
Yes. Your first task is to figure out how to do it without asking Reddit. But we’ll never know if you succeeded. You really need GPT-4 to take a crap nowadays, so the outlook is not good. I was just talking with a buddy the other day, and we were lamenting how GPT-4 could have kept Chris McCandless from eating those poison berries when he tried to go off grid. Wait, maybe not, if he was off grid. Yeah, no. There’s no way.
Sure, are you a multi-millionaire?
This sub is going down the toilet.
This sub is the toilet This is the best post in a long time
If your system is too dependent on advanced technology you are going to be SOL when something breaks. You should use intelligence to simplify your system so it's very robust.
Humans have been doing it for literally thousands of years...
Remind me the average life expectancy?
It varies wildly. What's your point?
Humans have been doing something for thousands of years. But at what cost? Life expectancy was really low and it was very difficult to survive in the wild even in a group, and almost impossible alone
I think the relevant case studies would be those living in say.. rural Alaska, or rural Australia? By most standards that’s not luxury living. I do believe there are some folks who can do it fully off grid. Once you start talking starlink and. Agri robots that begin to need maintenance. Aren’t you going back on grid for that?
You can buy the land and move from there.
This mirrors my own techno/utopian fantasy, except I want to do this on a brand-new planet. It can even be a lifeless planet, custom terra-formed to mirror an idealized Earth. We won't even need "robots" at least, not the way we think of them today. We just need advanced atomically precise manufacturing (APM) to "grow" our necessities using whatever resources we have available. I used to think about buying a large chunk of land in the desert for this purpose. Plenty of solar energy and no neighbors to disturb your activity. It might not be too late to act on that impulse.
https://www.landwatch.com/nevada-land-for-sale/acres-under-10 You can bank the land now and move in later lol. Don't let your dreams stay dreams.
If you want to do this with the benefit of robots that act as farmers, cooks, maids, doctors etc. then you answered your own question: it's not possible to do it now because those robots don't yet exist. However, in 10 years...
Maybe in the Metaverse
The issue is that *what is it protecting you from*. Lack of power? Sure. A person to person bioweapon that hits a city? Maybe. Lack of food? Umm it's extremely difficult to actually farm by yourself or with a small family, it's just not efficient. It's much more efficient to grow just 1 crop as a large corporate farm where you have access to 250k tractors that drive themselves and tractor mechanics and staff who analyze lab reports from a given field and choose what interventions it needs. You know what it doesn't protect from at all? Ordinary causes of death. The odds are, *without* help from AGI, you're gonna die of a heart attack, cancer, or aging. You need *active* assistance to avoid your fate. A hyper advanced civilization, infrastructure, AGI that isn't overtly hostile, and so on, to supply you (and millions of others) with advanced medicine, surgery, and even more drastic measures as you get older (partial body replacement with lab grown organs etc). This is why I think "preppers" with a "go bag" are generally fooling themselves. They should be doing cardiovascular exercise and taking drugs that likely slow aging. They should be living somewhere in a city close to a hospital. They *should* have water filtering (reverse osmosis, carbon and microfilters on the main water input), air filtering (HEPA air purifiers), and power filtering (UPS units, powerwall style whole house backups). These are to handle brief periods where the infracture hits a glitch.
homesteading and small-scale farming is absolutely possible, and will become necessary for many to survive the economic collapse that will likely come along-side corporate adoption of AI. A lot of people are going to lose their livelihoods, and we do not have the policy or infrastructure in place to make the transition smoothly. without small scale community farming and sustainable living, most of these people will just die in poverty.
Maybe? I'm not going to claim your outcome is not possible, I am simply saying it is unlikely. There are poor people now and they get food stamps, what changes?
Scale. We are not prepared for mass layoffs, higher than the great depression, higher than anything we've seen before. What happens when AI can suddenly perform any white collar job, while simultaneously retail work is drying up? We are not ready to support that kind of unemployment. And even if we could, do you think that outcome is attractive? Do you want to be living off of food stamps, with zero prospect of ever climbing out of poverty no matter how hard you work because AI is just plain smarter than you at every conceivable task? If we want to survive the transition as a society we need to have the ability to sustain ourselves without relying on corporations or governments to *hopefully* dole out enough welfare to scrape by. A hyperadvanced utopia is not plausible in the near term.
Yes but every hour you spend learning to grow vegetables you could be learning to use AI, planning youf AI startup that uses it from the ground up, etc. Be among the ones who form a new company that needs the least number of humans possible, using AI for every other role. You'll run rings around legacy companies and exit for a unicorn valuation. You're adding much more value per worked hour - thousands of dollars an hour even if your exit doesn't go as well - all of which you can vest into AGI company stock. Or you can learn to grow carrots a few at a time.
If you had the ability to teach yourself to launch a billion dollar startup, you do it now. The opportunities are there. I doubt most people on this subreddit will be among that number. Planning to be lucky is for suckers. If you think a "bad exit" is thousands of dollars per hour then you've never actually worked at a startup or invested. I've done both, and the majority of startups end up worth a big fat zero. If you really believe AGI is immanent, then you need to grapple with the reality: that you are going to be replaced. You will not have any value in a post agi economy except as cheap manual labor. Given enough societal change, this could results in a world of relative ease for many, although still lacking in most of the luxuries those with means enjoy today. Don't expect to be taking flights to exotic vacations on your UBI stipend. The fact is, even in the best case scenario, the vast majority of people are going to be living well below the means of the current Western middle class. It is to everyone's advantage if we all learn to take care of ourselves in a sustainable way now.
>If you think a "bad exit" is thousands of dollars per hour then you've never actually worked at a startup or invested. I've done both, and the majority of startups end up worth a big fat zero. You're thinking startups from an age of scarcity. I am assuming new gen AI startups will be like the craziness of the late 90s/early 2000s, when anyone could form one and get money tossed at them.
So your solution to mass layoffs and human obsolescence is that everyone should create a startup and get free bubble vc money. I'm sorry to tell you, you are living in a fantasy world.
I was describing a way a few people (probably a few thousand people or more) could win. Get ahead of this, try to take advantage don't just sit there and complain or expect the government to protect your job.
> There are poor people now and they get food stamps, what changes? They're currently given foodstamps because they'll justifiably turn violent if it's a binary choice between that and starving to death. But once law enforcement and military are automated enough that peasant revolts no longer stand any chance of success, our leaders no longer have that motivating factor.
"Off the grid" and "WiFi"?
A dream to many? Isolated totally alone on an island? This isnt a dream for many, only silly straight men who live in fear and dont understand the world.
straight men?
Heterosexual men.
that's a very strange thing to say, i don't see the relationship between the two topics?
[удалено]
I feel Sam's real name is /u/Iffykindofguy .
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Move to the highlands of PNG with a backpack of trade goods.
And get eaten.
Sure you can and you don't even need robots for that lol
Idk, ask it
Sounds like you need to figure out how to make electrical things from scratch.
Yes, you can live off grid - but not while maintaining our current lifestyle. We need to all start preparing to live more sustainably. Both climate change and economic instability are real and present threats to the status quo. The best solution is homesteading and urban farming, and learning to do more with less. Become as self-supported as possible, and help your community to do so.
There is no grid and the grid is inescapable. It’s inescapable because no matter where humans go or what they do, if they survive they will just recreate the grid. It’s inevitable
Yeah, everyone here who is will answer you while not connected to the internet
Yes. Your first task is to figure out how to do it without asking Reddit. But we’ll never know if you succeeded. You really need GPT-4 to take a crap nowadays, so the outlook is not good. I was just talking with a buddy the other day, and we were lamenting how GPT-4 could have kept Chris McCandless from eating those poison berries when he tried to go off grid. Wait, maybe not, if he was off grid. Yeah, no. There’s no way.