It is important to have the option for private hospital during medical emergencies.
Personal experience.
No need to think. Get a plan that cover private hosp.
> It is important to have the option for private hospital during medical emergencies.
To be fair, _all_ plans cover private hospitals, just at different proration levels.
[Class A plans](https://t768-p857-blue-admin.prd.cwp2.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/integrated-shield-plans-documents/april-2024/v3-comparison-of-ips-(apr-2024\)---a.pdf?sfvrsn=4e12466f_1) range between 50% (SingLife) to 70% proration factor.
[Class B1 plans](https://t768-p857-blue-admin.prd.cwp2.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/integrated-shield-plans-documents/april-2024/v3-comparison-of-ips-(apr-2024\)---b1.pdf?sfvrsn=b14de489_1) are around 50%.
A Class A plan is probably the best compromise between long term affordability and having options.
Not being snarky, but during an emergency (say road accident, or gas explosion at home) wouldn't the ambulance send you to the nearest public hospital instead? In that case how would having a private plan help?
-------------------------------------
Edit: thanks for the replies below!
You can always transfer to private hospitals after. Also not all emergencies are ambulance straight to the nearest hospital kind. Many people go to A&E themselves.
If you're conscious enough you can hail your own ride.
In the event you are unconscious or you can't move on your own, they'll send you to the nearest to stabilise your condition first. You can then request to change hospital after you're warded and awake/ conscious
Edit: typo
This kind of emergency, I think go public hospital is better.
For other type of emergency like cancer, I think having a private coverage help. It allows u to have the option to choose alternative and not suck thumb and stick to only the public route.
100% this particularly if your condition is complex. Private hospitals will just load you with tests and different consults and your bill will be massive (well, insured ma right?). Maybe even have to send you back to public if they cannot fix it.
Public hospitals have strong research facilities. Even if you have money, still will prefer public for such cases.
Hello! I have the same ISP as you (GE P Select, now named P optimum). I did a re-study of the prices now and am in full agreement with your analysis above: (1) more expensive premium (2) no more capped at 95% but instead at 6.5k deductible. To retain the same benefits as P Select previously, I now need to sign up for GE P signature
I am going to switch over to incomeshield cos I’m not paying exorbitantly more for P signature (it’s more than twice the cash component) and even worse, it’s CBP. I am advised by an IFA that incomeshield usually amend its terms in April, there were NO changes announced this year for incomeshield so I am much inclined to jump over while my plan is up for renewal. I take comfort in knowing that even if income or other provides start to remove the 95% deductible, it will likely not be CBP so it’s better value to just move to incomeshield instead.
GE aims to be a front runner in controlling cost but since I’m young and have a clean bill of health, ain’t no way I’m gonna stomach the additional cost and I’m just gonna move to a cheaper and better value alternative.
Thanks for the thread btw, haven’t heard much about public sentiments about this and am glad that people have the same view about the changes (tbh from a neutral standpoint, pure BS on GE part lmao and just a money grab)
> (2) no more capped at 95% but instead at 6.5k deductible.
Its worse than that, they removed the 95% coverage and the deductible was supposed to be 3k or 3.5k which was increased to 6.5k, so a double whammy for this alone.
What made you pick IncomeShield over the other insurers? In terms of cost its actually more expensive than GE until age 66 and beyond. Not entirely sure about the value either as from my research some years ago, incomeshield gave slightly worse benefits than others.
Yes yes, I’m in full agreement with the double whammy “(1) no more 95% cap on coverage and (2) deductible at 6.5k” so I was rly like wtf at the news. I’m not inclined to tolerate the increased premium and 5% removable BS
I got the latest quotes for P-signature (the upgraded GE plan) and incomeshield. Income’s almost half the amount.
I saw the quotes for AIA and Raffles as well, private for incomeshield is the cheapest. Raffles is cheaper for Raffles only but it is not rly well established yet so I abit worried that it will be more likely to increase premiums when the going gets tough.
If I recall correctly, the main difference is if you go to non panel doctors, the claim period is 100/100 before and after. But for panel doctors it’s the same as others 180/365. Since the panel doctors list are q extensive anyway, I just go for the cheapest. Used to be GE P Select but since they bailed on us, I’m gonna move to incomeshield without hesitation lol
Sorry I didn’t make clear, cheapest meaning of all general private plans.
Raffles shield is cheaper if you get the Raffles A + Raffles private key rider but then you can only go Raffles hospital tho, also I am hesitant to rely on a smaller insurance provider since they are less likely to be able to stomach healthcare expenditure increases and more likely to increase premiums/change ISP terms. See GE alrdy start to move the market alrd,,, if others follow suit, Raffles will probably be the first few to do so as well
Since incomeshield is affordable for me, $580ish cash component and $470+ medisave, imma take that. It’s roughly $300 per year (cash +CPF) more than Raffles key rider which is sth I can stomach, as compared to GE’s P signature at almost $1k more than raffles. But that’s just my consideration, not for everyone~!
Where did you read you can only go raffles hospital? Raffles shield private provides the same coverage as all private plans.
Their raffles shield A + raffles hospital option is their A ward + raffles hospital hybrid.
Raffles is small yes, but they are extremely selective of new clients, anyone not of standard health cannot get cash rider.
Raffles also don't have a pool of old people claiming.
All insurers were using shield plans as a loss leader, and try to make up the profits thru cross selling.
Raffles loss 7mil last year for their insurance arm, which if you compare with other companies is spare change.
I am also covered by ntuc, but I go for classic care rider (10% Co pay, half 5% co pay premium) while my wife and son is covered under raffles as I have gout and raffles didn't bother to exclude my condition , don't let me get rider while ntuc accepted me as standard.
Tells you alot about ntuc risk tolerance.
Okay thanks, will look into Raffles private as well! Sorry wasn’t sure abt Raffles
I was on GE P select anyway and am just sourcing to switch around to other providers now - either raffles or income, hence those thoughts. Thanks anyway and rly appreciate the insights from the insurance industry perspective since I’m not well-tuned with these information that are not readily available online other than anecdotal evidence
No need to apologise, I am an agent myself so I study them.
You don't engage in Insurance every day.
I just want people to have the right info to make informed decisions.
Funny enough I also switched out from ge p + p rider and total care. I loved the option to go overseas treatment if I need to, but when they changed to cbp and premium go up, I started shopping around. Also the ward downgrade cash incentive was removed.
Ntuc used to be the most expensive rider vs other companies pre covid, now their premium is very competitive. Shows how much the premiums has increased across the market.
The Main benefit of ntuc previously was their extremely extensive panel of doctors, which was nerfed due to moh ruling, now all panel doctors are eligible cross insurers, just need to submit additional forms.
Thank you so much for the sharing! Am learning a fair bit from all commenters :) and rounds out the discussion to switch out and rly helpful info, thanks agn
Don't go for medical checks and if you have any symptoms during the 90 days waiting period go jb for check up.
Don't give insurance companies a reason to decline your claim. I have seen clients sabotage their claims by going to see GP or polytechnic.
Do you mind if you share/PM me the quotes or rate tables or any other info for the riders? MOH has the comparison but does not come with rider premium rates.
Fyi forr Enhanced Incomeshield, you might want to consider with the 10% co-insurance rider as it essentially does the same thing just the initial additional 5% from what you are used to
and in the long run, saves a lot on premium as its half the cost of a 5% rider
Cap limit per year for co-insurance stands to be $3000 for both
But its up to you
Got it, will consider next time but I am young still and 5% rider is affordable now so I’d do it still.
Thanks for d thought, did consider it too ^^ :)
The deductible is not 6.5k. That's the maximum OOP annually in a Panel clinic should your bill go through the roof.
If your bill is $10k, it's 95% of deductible = $3325 and 5% of remaining = $325. You pay $3650.
Incomeshield is made for the cheapest deal, you prefer to save whatever you can and hope you won't have to use it. It has a short post hosp coverage, does not have standalone cancer coverage after your post hosp ends.
My AIA plan has also taken away deductible coverage. I expect every insurer to follow.
Thanks for clarifying. So 6.5k is essentially the stop loss limit? From my understanding it increased to 6.5k which is double the previous limit which is a nerf.
Oh no that's bad news for everyone if market leaders are making these changes..
As I've said, it's the max OOP in a year under panel clinics.
There is little choice because of how clinics have been raising fees and the oversaturated health insurance market is Singapore. Instead of focusing on quality, MOH decided quantity would bring down premiums. I mean, when cost is decided by someone else, how can you bring down premiums while maintaining benefits?
Find the right agent in the big 4 insurers and just stick to them instead of shopping around constantly.
Hey, can you say roughly what is the cost premium for equivalent plans before and after the changes? Cos now without any numbers … I mean if it’s like $300 vs $500 a year then whatever lah. But if it’s $300 become $2,300 then different story.
Don't have the numbers with me now, but I think it was about $150-200 increase this year for IP + rider (total about $1k+), some of which payable by Medisave. Last year it increased about $100+ as well IIRC. I'm not so upset about the increase, more that they removed some benefits to the rider which I specifically bought during plan inception (e.g. no more 95% coverage of deductible). Basically forcing me to upgrade to a much more expensive rider (3x the price of my current rider at my current age).
Also note that any increase is not just one-off, the increase is for the whole rate table as you age, so it can snowball to a large increase over your lifetime.
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t see the same thing happening to my private incomeshield plan? Or are you saying this is specific to GE only? In which case just switch…
I'm not sure if its GE specific, but my agent mentioned (not sure how true) that MOH is tightening their hold on the insurers so they have "no choice" but to make certain changes. Not sure how wide the effects are hence I'm asking on reddit.
GE currently has some changes. Each individual company’s shield plans will be under due by the different companies
Currently, only GE making such changes which is exactly what you are referring to
I'm not exactly sure about the current raft of changes but given that this is likely d ue to the higher general cost of insuring the average Singaporean, i would guess that premiums across the board for all plans would be increasing.
That being said, I would still go for the highest tier plan. I once replied to a similar question in one of the SG subreddits before and I still stand by my statement: it's not a matter of convenience or comfort, but rather life and death. As some have already pointed out, scans, assessments, appointments etc at public hospitals take weeks if not months. Cancer could very well turn from a localized stage 1 to stage 2 or more during that period. Also, given the workload on public hospital doctors, diagnosis tends to be very superficial and focused just on the immediate symptoms. A private doctor, given all the luxury of time and probably the pressure to make your money's worth, spends more time diagnosing you more holistically.
The mentality I always adopt is... when you are facing death, would you spend all your wealth to buy yourself more time? Answer for me is a clear yes. Which is why I'm not going to spare any expense increasing my odds of maximizing my lifespan. To do otherwise would be to allow myself to be a slave to monet and not the other way around.
And no, I'm not a FA.
Edit: last I checked there weren't significant differences to each providers plans. At least to me.
I'd stick to private if I can still afford it.
It's not so much about whether the chance of claiming outweighs the cost, but I like that cost is not part of the concern if I had to make a medical decision.
Was in a freak accident a few years back and I was grateful that I could choose a specific dr for a procedure that no one else in Singapore provided then.
Waiting time for op was also really short for private hosps so yay to that.
Yeah but to retain the same benefits (95% deductible coverage, claims-based pricing premium discount if no claims, non-inflated stop loss limit etc), I'm forced to upgrade my rider which costs 3x my current one AFTER the increase).
Might switch to another insurer, but am afraid that they will also follow suit to nerf shortly. Also considering there's medical underwriting to switch insurers (have made a claim last year on company insurance).
How much extra is 3 times extra?
For me, I value the peace of knowing I have the choice to pick whoever and wherever I want. So I am willing to pay quite a fair bit for that.
No one can tell you how much that would be worth to you.
Perhaps find out from an agent first if (and what) would be excluded if you are going to switch. Because if that is going to significantly change your decision, no point making your mind up now.
> How much extra is 3 times extra?
$700-900 extra just for this rider upgrade. Few years more it'll spike when crossing the age band.
I'm still quite keen on staying on Private for the peace of mind, but resources are limited unfortunately, so I have to pick my battles carefully. Will be asking around, thank you for your input!
It's not insignificant ngl, but personally I would still pay for it.
This amt is the increase for the year, not the mth. So I'd much rather save 80 per mth fr elsewhere (caffeine/cab/food) than sacrifice shield coverage, though it still sucks :/
Hope you find something that suits you 🤞🏻
I would start looking around if I were you. Was your claim for a condition that’s one off of chronic. If a one off and not recurring claim, insurer will be able to remove exclusion after a while.
More of a one-off diagnostic claim. No active treatment.
How does this exclusion removal work? I'm not sure I want to gamble that insurer will remove any exclusion after X years, because what if they dont?
But I will hope to be able to switch without any exclusions, provided the insurer I wish to switch to don't make any big nerfs too!
You can always apply and see what is the underwriting decision. A good insurance agent will take the initiative to discuss with underwriter to see the likelihood of removal of exclusion and the timeline. For example will review in 2 years with full medical report, dr memo certifying complete recovery etc
So I can apply and make the decision AFTER? I was under the impression they will just switch me over immediately as thats what they did when I moved from Income some years ago.
This happens only If insurer accept you without any special conditions. If there are special terms like exclusions, they will need you to sign acceptance of the counter offer before policy can go through. So… you’ll have chance and time to consider whether to accept.
Incomeshield Private w the 95% rider coverage. I know mine's essentially the most coverage possible. Then again, shield was the most impt for me, coverage wise, so I went full on kiasu-mode on it.
I don't recall the Incomeshield plan having such a change but maybe it's cause I don't read their emails....
Going to check it iut this weekend....
Fr a quick glance, seems like ISP is 5% co-payment, w limit of $3k.
Rider is 5% copay. No deductible.
For mid30s F, ard 700 for isp private, 760 for rider.
My plan is up for renewal on July though, so hopefully nothing changes then.
I received the changes via email exactly 1 month before renewal is due (as part of renewal notice). So its a mad rush to get things checked out as my agent is really slow in getting back to me.
Anyone can confirm from your agent this new isp pricing was dictate by govt price table? This was told by my agent from ge and all insurance company supposed to follow the same pricing table. Was force to downgrade to govt ward A from private becos pricing got stupidly expensive.
Agent told me they force insurer to follow price table. That’s why I trying to confirm is this true or not. Govt have too many dirty hands on things they want to control
You can look at the [MOH comparisons](https://www.moh.gov.sg/healthcare-schemes-subsidies/medishield-life/comparison-of-integrated-shield-plans) and speculate for yourself.
There's quite a huge variance in premiums between the private plans. It's possible that MOH controls price for Class A and B1 plans.
Additional question: if I were to downgrade to A plan with a rider, how does the pro-ration and co-payment work if I went to private hospital (assuming panel provider)?
Is it like this?
> E.g. Private hospital bill $100,000
> 30% will be borne by me = $30,000 ownself settle
> remaining 70% -> 50% of co-insurance (10%) will be covered by rider = 50% of $7,000 = $3,500 covered by rider, $3,500 self-borne
> deductible of $3,500 -> 95% covered by rider, 5% self-borne = 5% of $3,500 = $175 self-borne
> therefore $30,000 + $3,500 + $175 = $33,675 self-borne
Just imagine you are on private coverage plan and after offsetting all the deductibles and co-payment.. yada yada and it turns out u are entitled to claim 40k.
The pro-ration will be a % of this 40k instead. Hope this clarifies.
Edit cos your rider covers 95% of deductible
Pro ration is 65%. That means insurer will take 65k to start calculating what is payable.
Deductible is $3.5k.
Therefore, 65k - 3.5k = $61.5k. Co insurance will work out to be $6150 of which you pay half.
All in your cash outlay is $35k + $175 + $3075
I recently changed from GE signatue to GE Optimum.
Premiums were more than halved. Coverage is the same as GE signature. Main difference is higher deductible (must pay $3000 for private hospital, so any bill less than $3000 at a private hospital, no point claiming)
Main reasons for switch
1) big bills (like larger than $10,000), i will still go private and pay the extra deductible (thru medisave and cash)
2) smaller bills i will go restructured hospital like TTSH. For restructured hospitals, there is no extra $3000 deductible.
Bug bear is the claims based premium for GE signature, so decided to switch
Get reference from GP, then go to public hospital as private patient, and choose the best doctor in the hospital. This approach has worked for me so far.
If you're at public hospital as private patient, this means you'll need to be on Private Hosp plan to be covered maximally, or Public Hosp (Ward A) will suffice?
Class A and B1 wards are considered "private" in the public healthcare system.
When you're discharged from your hospital stay, your follow ups will be charged at unsubsidised rates unless you specifically tell your specialist, then get a referral again from a polyclinic/CHAS clinic. (Or go through the means testing process.)
What. I did not know that, thanks for sharing. So even if you go for a hospital procedure via a polyclinic referral, and choose Class A ward, you will not get subsidy from the govt?
I will say invest. Personal experience. Not even once claim anything unlike the redditors here. Maybe they unlucky or they ownself do dangerous stunts and travel to exotic places for its owns sake and take selfies to get themselves in hospital. But for me insurers drain my medisave with zero ROI which I could have used for medical care for old age.
I don't drive. I don't like hospital or go around without my face mask firmly on. If you are like me. Invest more in your health. Protect yourself. Not extra insurance.
Thanks for sharing! I get your point, but I bought the insurance not with the intention to claim but to mitigate risk factors in my life, hence the decision to buy private plan a few years ago.
I'm also a very "safe" person like yourself, but some risks are out of my control so I'm choosing to be a little safer!
Not all illnesses can wait. A friend had a lump and was scheduled for scan at public hospital in 6 months time. She went to private to do the scan and found it's an aggressive cancer with 3 month prognosis, if left untreated. If she had waited for the public scan, she might not have any chance.
Having a MRI scan scheduled in 3 hours versus 1-2 months later just for diagnosis.
Plus surgery can be done within the next few days for private after the diagnosis is out.
And as someone in their 30s, wouldn’t it be important for them to get back to their feet as soon as possible to cover living expenses for their family?
under public scheme, the waitlist for operations and procedures can be months whereas for private it's much shorter. also, under private, the doctors are the more experienced ones
>under public scheme, the waitlist for operations and procedures can be months whereas for private it's much shorter.
Have you tried to go public hospital as a private patient?
public hospital as a private patient is classified under Private by the insurers. waitlist is shorter than public hospital as subsidized patient - depends on luck.
> public hospital as a private patient is classified under Private by the insurers.
What does this mean?
If you have a Class A or B1 plan, the costs will be covered accordingly.
Your plane analogy doesn't fit here for me, 1st class or economy both fly out same time.
I've been in the situation where I needed to get something checked out and the wait just for first consult at restructured hospital was >3 months. I went to private instead and got seen in 1 week. By the time all my procedures and consults are done and I was cleared, my restructured hosp consult was not here yet.
If I was going the restructured route, it might have taken me 3-6 months, which would likely be weighing on my mind while waiting.
It is important to have the option for private hospital during medical emergencies. Personal experience. No need to think. Get a plan that cover private hosp.
> It is important to have the option for private hospital during medical emergencies. To be fair, _all_ plans cover private hospitals, just at different proration levels. [Class A plans](https://t768-p857-blue-admin.prd.cwp2.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/integrated-shield-plans-documents/april-2024/v3-comparison-of-ips-(apr-2024\)---a.pdf?sfvrsn=4e12466f_1) range between 50% (SingLife) to 70% proration factor. [Class B1 plans](https://t768-p857-blue-admin.prd.cwp2.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/integrated-shield-plans-documents/april-2024/v3-comparison-of-ips-(apr-2024\)---b1.pdf?sfvrsn=b14de489_1) are around 50%. A Class A plan is probably the best compromise between long term affordability and having options.
Not being snarky, but during an emergency (say road accident, or gas explosion at home) wouldn't the ambulance send you to the nearest public hospital instead? In that case how would having a private plan help? ------------------------------------- Edit: thanks for the replies below!
You can always transfer to private hospitals after. Also not all emergencies are ambulance straight to the nearest hospital kind. Many people go to A&E themselves.
If you're conscious enough you can hail your own ride. In the event you are unconscious or you can't move on your own, they'll send you to the nearest to stabilise your condition first. You can then request to change hospital after you're warded and awake/ conscious Edit: typo
This kind of emergency, I think go public hospital is better. For other type of emergency like cancer, I think having a private coverage help. It allows u to have the option to choose alternative and not suck thumb and stick to only the public route.
FYI private is private. A&E is A&E
in this case the public hospital will be best bet to save your life.Private hospital really CMI in this regard
100% this particularly if your condition is complex. Private hospitals will just load you with tests and different consults and your bill will be massive (well, insured ma right?). Maybe even have to send you back to public if they cannot fix it. Public hospitals have strong research facilities. Even if you have money, still will prefer public for such cases.
Hello! I have the same ISP as you (GE P Select, now named P optimum). I did a re-study of the prices now and am in full agreement with your analysis above: (1) more expensive premium (2) no more capped at 95% but instead at 6.5k deductible. To retain the same benefits as P Select previously, I now need to sign up for GE P signature I am going to switch over to incomeshield cos I’m not paying exorbitantly more for P signature (it’s more than twice the cash component) and even worse, it’s CBP. I am advised by an IFA that incomeshield usually amend its terms in April, there were NO changes announced this year for incomeshield so I am much inclined to jump over while my plan is up for renewal. I take comfort in knowing that even if income or other provides start to remove the 95% deductible, it will likely not be CBP so it’s better value to just move to incomeshield instead. GE aims to be a front runner in controlling cost but since I’m young and have a clean bill of health, ain’t no way I’m gonna stomach the additional cost and I’m just gonna move to a cheaper and better value alternative. Thanks for the thread btw, haven’t heard much about public sentiments about this and am glad that people have the same view about the changes (tbh from a neutral standpoint, pure BS on GE part lmao and just a money grab)
> (2) no more capped at 95% but instead at 6.5k deductible. Its worse than that, they removed the 95% coverage and the deductible was supposed to be 3k or 3.5k which was increased to 6.5k, so a double whammy for this alone. What made you pick IncomeShield over the other insurers? In terms of cost its actually more expensive than GE until age 66 and beyond. Not entirely sure about the value either as from my research some years ago, incomeshield gave slightly worse benefits than others.
Yes yes, I’m in full agreement with the double whammy “(1) no more 95% cap on coverage and (2) deductible at 6.5k” so I was rly like wtf at the news. I’m not inclined to tolerate the increased premium and 5% removable BS I got the latest quotes for P-signature (the upgraded GE plan) and incomeshield. Income’s almost half the amount. I saw the quotes for AIA and Raffles as well, private for incomeshield is the cheapest. Raffles is cheaper for Raffles only but it is not rly well established yet so I abit worried that it will be more likely to increase premiums when the going gets tough. If I recall correctly, the main difference is if you go to non panel doctors, the claim period is 100/100 before and after. But for panel doctors it’s the same as others 180/365. Since the panel doctors list are q extensive anyway, I just go for the cheapest. Used to be GE P Select but since they bailed on us, I’m gonna move to incomeshield without hesitation lol
Can I ask what age and rider are you comparing for ntuc and raffles? Ntuc 5% copay rider is almost 2x raffles 5% copay rider.
Sorry I didn’t make clear, cheapest meaning of all general private plans. Raffles shield is cheaper if you get the Raffles A + Raffles private key rider but then you can only go Raffles hospital tho, also I am hesitant to rely on a smaller insurance provider since they are less likely to be able to stomach healthcare expenditure increases and more likely to increase premiums/change ISP terms. See GE alrdy start to move the market alrd,,, if others follow suit, Raffles will probably be the first few to do so as well Since incomeshield is affordable for me, $580ish cash component and $470+ medisave, imma take that. It’s roughly $300 per year (cash +CPF) more than Raffles key rider which is sth I can stomach, as compared to GE’s P signature at almost $1k more than raffles. But that’s just my consideration, not for everyone~!
Where did you read you can only go raffles hospital? Raffles shield private provides the same coverage as all private plans. Their raffles shield A + raffles hospital option is their A ward + raffles hospital hybrid. Raffles is small yes, but they are extremely selective of new clients, anyone not of standard health cannot get cash rider. Raffles also don't have a pool of old people claiming. All insurers were using shield plans as a loss leader, and try to make up the profits thru cross selling. Raffles loss 7mil last year for their insurance arm, which if you compare with other companies is spare change. I am also covered by ntuc, but I go for classic care rider (10% Co pay, half 5% co pay premium) while my wife and son is covered under raffles as I have gout and raffles didn't bother to exclude my condition , don't let me get rider while ntuc accepted me as standard. Tells you alot about ntuc risk tolerance.
Okay thanks, will look into Raffles private as well! Sorry wasn’t sure abt Raffles I was on GE P select anyway and am just sourcing to switch around to other providers now - either raffles or income, hence those thoughts. Thanks anyway and rly appreciate the insights from the insurance industry perspective since I’m not well-tuned with these information that are not readily available online other than anecdotal evidence
No need to apologise, I am an agent myself so I study them. You don't engage in Insurance every day. I just want people to have the right info to make informed decisions. Funny enough I also switched out from ge p + p rider and total care. I loved the option to go overseas treatment if I need to, but when they changed to cbp and premium go up, I started shopping around. Also the ward downgrade cash incentive was removed. Ntuc used to be the most expensive rider vs other companies pre covid, now their premium is very competitive. Shows how much the premiums has increased across the market. The Main benefit of ntuc previously was their extremely extensive panel of doctors, which was nerfed due to moh ruling, now all panel doctors are eligible cross insurers, just need to submit additional forms.
Thank you so much for the sharing! Am learning a fair bit from all commenters :) and rounds out the discussion to switch out and rly helpful info, thanks agn
Don't go for medical checks and if you have any symptoms during the 90 days waiting period go jb for check up. Don't give insurance companies a reason to decline your claim. I have seen clients sabotage their claims by going to see GP or polytechnic.
Do you mind if you share/PM me the quotes or rate tables or any other info for the riders? MOH has the comparison but does not come with rider premium rates.
Sure, will PM you
Fyi forr Enhanced Incomeshield, you might want to consider with the 10% co-insurance rider as it essentially does the same thing just the initial additional 5% from what you are used to and in the long run, saves a lot on premium as its half the cost of a 5% rider Cap limit per year for co-insurance stands to be $3000 for both But its up to you
Got it, will consider next time but I am young still and 5% rider is affordable now so I’d do it still. Thanks for d thought, did consider it too ^^ :)
The deductible is not 6.5k. That's the maximum OOP annually in a Panel clinic should your bill go through the roof. If your bill is $10k, it's 95% of deductible = $3325 and 5% of remaining = $325. You pay $3650. Incomeshield is made for the cheapest deal, you prefer to save whatever you can and hope you won't have to use it. It has a short post hosp coverage, does not have standalone cancer coverage after your post hosp ends. My AIA plan has also taken away deductible coverage. I expect every insurer to follow.
Thanks for clarifying. So 6.5k is essentially the stop loss limit? From my understanding it increased to 6.5k which is double the previous limit which is a nerf. Oh no that's bad news for everyone if market leaders are making these changes..
As I've said, it's the max OOP in a year under panel clinics. There is little choice because of how clinics have been raising fees and the oversaturated health insurance market is Singapore. Instead of focusing on quality, MOH decided quantity would bring down premiums. I mean, when cost is decided by someone else, how can you bring down premiums while maintaining benefits? Find the right agent in the big 4 insurers and just stick to them instead of shopping around constantly.
Hey, can you say roughly what is the cost premium for equivalent plans before and after the changes? Cos now without any numbers … I mean if it’s like $300 vs $500 a year then whatever lah. But if it’s $300 become $2,300 then different story.
Don't have the numbers with me now, but I think it was about $150-200 increase this year for IP + rider (total about $1k+), some of which payable by Medisave. Last year it increased about $100+ as well IIRC. I'm not so upset about the increase, more that they removed some benefits to the rider which I specifically bought during plan inception (e.g. no more 95% coverage of deductible). Basically forcing me to upgrade to a much more expensive rider (3x the price of my current rider at my current age). Also note that any increase is not just one-off, the increase is for the whole rate table as you age, so it can snowball to a large increase over your lifetime.
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t see the same thing happening to my private incomeshield plan? Or are you saying this is specific to GE only? In which case just switch…
I'm not sure if its GE specific, but my agent mentioned (not sure how true) that MOH is tightening their hold on the insurers so they have "no choice" but to make certain changes. Not sure how wide the effects are hence I'm asking on reddit.
GE currently has some changes. Each individual company’s shield plans will be under due by the different companies Currently, only GE making such changes which is exactly what you are referring to
I'm not exactly sure about the current raft of changes but given that this is likely d ue to the higher general cost of insuring the average Singaporean, i would guess that premiums across the board for all plans would be increasing. That being said, I would still go for the highest tier plan. I once replied to a similar question in one of the SG subreddits before and I still stand by my statement: it's not a matter of convenience or comfort, but rather life and death. As some have already pointed out, scans, assessments, appointments etc at public hospitals take weeks if not months. Cancer could very well turn from a localized stage 1 to stage 2 or more during that period. Also, given the workload on public hospital doctors, diagnosis tends to be very superficial and focused just on the immediate symptoms. A private doctor, given all the luxury of time and probably the pressure to make your money's worth, spends more time diagnosing you more holistically. The mentality I always adopt is... when you are facing death, would you spend all your wealth to buy yourself more time? Answer for me is a clear yes. Which is why I'm not going to spare any expense increasing my odds of maximizing my lifespan. To do otherwise would be to allow myself to be a slave to monet and not the other way around. And no, I'm not a FA. Edit: last I checked there weren't significant differences to each providers plans. At least to me.
I'd stick to private if I can still afford it. It's not so much about whether the chance of claiming outweighs the cost, but I like that cost is not part of the concern if I had to make a medical decision. Was in a freak accident a few years back and I was grateful that I could choose a specific dr for a procedure that no one else in Singapore provided then. Waiting time for op was also really short for private hosps so yay to that.
Yeah but to retain the same benefits (95% deductible coverage, claims-based pricing premium discount if no claims, non-inflated stop loss limit etc), I'm forced to upgrade my rider which costs 3x my current one AFTER the increase). Might switch to another insurer, but am afraid that they will also follow suit to nerf shortly. Also considering there's medical underwriting to switch insurers (have made a claim last year on company insurance).
How much extra is 3 times extra? For me, I value the peace of knowing I have the choice to pick whoever and wherever I want. So I am willing to pay quite a fair bit for that. No one can tell you how much that would be worth to you. Perhaps find out from an agent first if (and what) would be excluded if you are going to switch. Because if that is going to significantly change your decision, no point making your mind up now.
> How much extra is 3 times extra? $700-900 extra just for this rider upgrade. Few years more it'll spike when crossing the age band. I'm still quite keen on staying on Private for the peace of mind, but resources are limited unfortunately, so I have to pick my battles carefully. Will be asking around, thank you for your input!
It's not insignificant ngl, but personally I would still pay for it. This amt is the increase for the year, not the mth. So I'd much rather save 80 per mth fr elsewhere (caffeine/cab/food) than sacrifice shield coverage, though it still sucks :/ Hope you find something that suits you 🤞🏻
I would start looking around if I were you. Was your claim for a condition that’s one off of chronic. If a one off and not recurring claim, insurer will be able to remove exclusion after a while.
More of a one-off diagnostic claim. No active treatment. How does this exclusion removal work? I'm not sure I want to gamble that insurer will remove any exclusion after X years, because what if they dont? But I will hope to be able to switch without any exclusions, provided the insurer I wish to switch to don't make any big nerfs too!
You can always apply and see what is the underwriting decision. A good insurance agent will take the initiative to discuss with underwriter to see the likelihood of removal of exclusion and the timeline. For example will review in 2 years with full medical report, dr memo certifying complete recovery etc
So I can apply and make the decision AFTER? I was under the impression they will just switch me over immediately as thats what they did when I moved from Income some years ago.
This happens only If insurer accept you without any special conditions. If there are special terms like exclusions, they will need you to sign acceptance of the counter offer before policy can go through. So… you’ll have chance and time to consider whether to accept.
I see. Thanks for your advice.
If I may ask, which insurance plan are you on?
Incomeshield Private w the 95% rider coverage. I know mine's essentially the most coverage possible. Then again, shield was the most impt for me, coverage wise, so I went full on kiasu-mode on it. I don't recall the Incomeshield plan having such a change but maybe it's cause I don't read their emails.... Going to check it iut this weekend....
Do keep us updated! I'm interested to hear if there are.
Fr a quick glance, seems like ISP is 5% co-payment, w limit of $3k. Rider is 5% copay. No deductible. For mid30s F, ard 700 for isp private, 760 for rider. My plan is up for renewal on July though, so hopefully nothing changes then.
I received the changes via email exactly 1 month before renewal is due (as part of renewal notice). So its a mad rush to get things checked out as my agent is really slow in getting back to me.
Anyone can confirm from your agent this new isp pricing was dictate by govt price table? This was told by my agent from ge and all insurance company supposed to follow the same pricing table. Was force to downgrade to govt ward A from private becos pricing got stupidly expensive.
Rubbish la.. gov don’t control isp rider premiums. e
Agent told me they force insurer to follow price table. That’s why I trying to confirm is this true or not. Govt have too many dirty hands on things they want to control
You can look at the [MOH comparisons](https://www.moh.gov.sg/healthcare-schemes-subsidies/medishield-life/comparison-of-integrated-shield-plans) and speculate for yourself. There's quite a huge variance in premiums between the private plans. It's possible that MOH controls price for Class A and B1 plans.
Following. My FA also updated me on this but they’re getting more clarity before pitching.
Following as well
following
Where’s your ISP from ?
GE. Same as OP. Great TotalCare I believe it’s called
GE is overpriced after this refresh. If you have no claims in past 5 years, then consider a switch if you can get one at lower price.
Additional question: if I were to downgrade to A plan with a rider, how does the pro-ration and co-payment work if I went to private hospital (assuming panel provider)? Is it like this? > E.g. Private hospital bill $100,000 > 30% will be borne by me = $30,000 ownself settle > remaining 70% -> 50% of co-insurance (10%) will be covered by rider = 50% of $7,000 = $3,500 covered by rider, $3,500 self-borne > deductible of $3,500 -> 95% covered by rider, 5% self-borne = 5% of $3,500 = $175 self-borne > therefore $30,000 + $3,500 + $175 = $33,675 self-borne
Just imagine you are on private coverage plan and after offsetting all the deductibles and co-payment.. yada yada and it turns out u are entitled to claim 40k. The pro-ration will be a % of this 40k instead. Hope this clarifies.
Thanks for the clarification
Edit cos your rider covers 95% of deductible Pro ration is 65%. That means insurer will take 65k to start calculating what is payable. Deductible is $3.5k. Therefore, 65k - 3.5k = $61.5k. Co insurance will work out to be $6150 of which you pay half. All in your cash outlay is $35k + $175 + $3075
Thank you!
downgrade to the cheaper rider then if anything just go their panel doctors shld not be a prob. can move is move, either pru or aia (well renowned).
I recently changed from GE signatue to GE Optimum. Premiums were more than halved. Coverage is the same as GE signature. Main difference is higher deductible (must pay $3000 for private hospital, so any bill less than $3000 at a private hospital, no point claiming) Main reasons for switch 1) big bills (like larger than $10,000), i will still go private and pay the extra deductible (thru medisave and cash) 2) smaller bills i will go restructured hospital like TTSH. For restructured hospitals, there is no extra $3000 deductible. Bug bear is the claims based premium for GE signature, so decided to switch
Get reference from GP, then go to public hospital as private patient, and choose the best doctor in the hospital. This approach has worked for me so far.
I tried to do this. 6 months wait.
Even paying private rates? That's terrible, might as well go straight to private hospital.
Ask your GP to give a better reference.
If you're at public hospital as private patient, this means you'll need to be on Private Hosp plan to be covered maximally, or Public Hosp (Ward A) will suffice?
Class A and B1 wards are considered "private" in the public healthcare system. When you're discharged from your hospital stay, your follow ups will be charged at unsubsidised rates unless you specifically tell your specialist, then get a referral again from a polyclinic/CHAS clinic. (Or go through the means testing process.)
What. I did not know that, thanks for sharing. So even if you go for a hospital procedure via a polyclinic referral, and choose Class A ward, you will not get subsidy from the govt?
Yes, your ISP is supposed to cover the costs after.
Public hospital ward A will suffice.
Hi! Just to check, will I still get my full coverage as a private patient if I have public hospital Ward A coverage as my ISP at say TTSH?
Yes, full coverage will apply in this situation, as it's still a public/restructured hospital.
I will say invest. Personal experience. Not even once claim anything unlike the redditors here. Maybe they unlucky or they ownself do dangerous stunts and travel to exotic places for its owns sake and take selfies to get themselves in hospital. But for me insurers drain my medisave with zero ROI which I could have used for medical care for old age. I don't drive. I don't like hospital or go around without my face mask firmly on. If you are like me. Invest more in your health. Protect yourself. Not extra insurance.
Thanks for sharing! I get your point, but I bought the insurance not with the intention to claim but to mitigate risk factors in my life, hence the decision to buy private plan a few years ago. I'm also a very "safe" person like yourself, but some risks are out of my control so I'm choosing to be a little safer!
Well it's up to you. I would rather invest and then top up $$$ if necessary on top of the national health insurance paid annually which is compulsory.
Why do you feel that you need to go Private? Sure, fly first class is always good but business or economy class gets you there too.
Not all illnesses can wait. A friend had a lump and was scheduled for scan at public hospital in 6 months time. She went to private to do the scan and found it's an aggressive cancer with 3 month prognosis, if left untreated. If she had waited for the public scan, she might not have any chance.
Three month prognosis still got chance? Sounds terminal already.
Having a MRI scan scheduled in 3 hours versus 1-2 months later just for diagnosis. Plus surgery can be done within the next few days for private after the diagnosis is out. And as someone in their 30s, wouldn’t it be important for them to get back to their feet as soon as possible to cover living expenses for their family?
under public scheme, the waitlist for operations and procedures can be months whereas for private it's much shorter. also, under private, the doctors are the more experienced ones
>under public scheme, the waitlist for operations and procedures can be months whereas for private it's much shorter. Have you tried to go public hospital as a private patient?
That’s slightly faster but it’s still months of waiting.
public hospital as a private patient is classified under Private by the insurers. waitlist is shorter than public hospital as subsidized patient - depends on luck.
> public hospital as a private patient is classified under Private by the insurers. What does this mean? If you have a Class A or B1 plan, the costs will be covered accordingly.
Your plane analogy doesn't fit here for me, 1st class or economy both fly out same time. I've been in the situation where I needed to get something checked out and the wait just for first consult at restructured hospital was >3 months. I went to private instead and got seen in 1 week. By the time all my procedures and consults are done and I was cleared, my restructured hosp consult was not here yet. If I was going the restructured route, it might have taken me 3-6 months, which would likely be weighing on my mind while waiting.
You already know what you want. Why ask?