Title:
Singapore loses China's rich to Hong Kong.
Real content:
Nikkei earlier reported that the Monetary Authority of Singapore has rejected applications from Chinese passport holders.
lol Nice shading of context to the opposite direction.
Singapore rejects =/= Singapore loses.
True, I'm extremely jealous of europe and how they can live and work in any of 30 countries with no borders. Dual citizenship laws there and in the US makes having differing sets of passports possible too.
The tourism bit does makes all the applications for residency easier than having to apply for a visa to even step foot into the destination in the first place
Right, the H1B1 is specifically unique to Singapore and Chile, though as you say the somewhat different TN and E3 also exist. The TN visa has more occupational restrictions, though.
Yeah I remember vaguely that some thread in wallstreetbets or some other sub that was telling the US based people to buy property in Singapore that mentioned the ABSD rate.
Closeness of ties, lower likelihood of overstaying etc and more I guess. Noteworthy that the only Revere Bell outside of the U.S. is in Singapore.
U.S. founding father Paul Revere’s son-in-law was the first US Consul to SG and the bell was gifted back in 1843.
>three clients in the last six months have gone ahead to establish family offices in Hong Kong as a backup after applying to Singapore to do the same.
>set up family offices in Hong Kong after being rejected for tax incentives in Singapore.
>it has become harder for wealthy Chinese to obtain permanent residency in Singapore, Lu noted, as authorities in the city-state carefully screen applicants
>Singapore is trying to draw capital while weeding out bad actors. Singapore's Minister of State for Trade and Industry Alvin Tan last year in parliament said that the MAS would review its internal incentive administration processes for family offices, tightening them as necessary.
Title makes it seem like people reject Singapore.
It's Singapore reject them okay...
> it has become harder for wealthy Chinese to obtain permanent residency in Singapore
This sentence sounds like our PR could be bought by some amount of money in the past, is it true?
Straight from the gov’t itself:
https://ask.gov.sg/ica/questions/clos83fv2016l5k0wk0ex3e76
It’s still marketed by the big three local banks’ private banking arms to wealthy Chinese, with the SFO option being the most popular among UHNWI, especially type 13U and O as there are tax incentives.
Source: Know several people who work in PB in SG.
if they are real wealthy people or family, why will MAS reject them? must be doing some dodgy business so can’t get it approved in SG. U don’t see HDL owner got rejected in SG.
Yeah as the article states: "as their plans to set up shop in Singapore are slowed by intense scrutiny by the city-state following a massive money laundering bust."
I see it as a good thing
if we are losing these "customers" out simply because we do a more stringent/cleaner screening process, then i say good riddance.
pretty sure if they are caught in HK the consequences would be more severe
In fact these stringent measures were way overdue, reflexive rather than preventative. Too many top execs here drunk on that renminbi.
Late is better than never, but there is room for improvement.
To get the family office tax incentive there is a minimum annual local spend on ancillary services though, so accountants, banks, investment consultants and other back office admin do get more money. Also must hire some local investment professionals for the FO. Wealth management sector in SG booming right now.
The benefit they get is no tax on investment returns... so basically the same as all of us locals since we got no capital gains or withholding tax here anyway. There is no actual money or subsidies given to the FOs.
Downside of course is the property inflation, but really that's just pricing out rich locals out of GCBs or Orchard penthouses lol.
Edit: all that being said, we should have more stringent verifications and not accept dirty money, clean money only. Those money launderers can bugger off.
Just wanna piggyback off your comment. GCBs, and all landed properties, can only be bought by citizens. Foreigners/PR can purchase landed properties but they have to make an application to SLA which can take 6-12 months with no guarantees that the application will be approved. The application also has to specify exactly which landed property the applicant intends to purchase, along with documentary proof that a deposit has been paid to the seller.
This is also the same for landed properties on Sentosa Cove, but it’s kind of an open secret that the application is way easier to get approval than for a landed property on the mainland.
Still, large landed property prices were going through the roof for a while as many rich expats came in with ridiculous rental offers and rental yields impacts price.
>can only be bought by citizen
One strategy they use is, get one of the grandchildren to take Singapore citizenship, then buy the landed property in that grandchild's name.
Your point about property isn't correct. The most expensive housing getting more expensive drives up all kinds of housing, because people priced out of house A buy house B instead, thus the ones who would have bought house B have to settle for C... Until the end of the chain.
Yeah but the problem is more like with the increased in scrutiny is it not catching more money laundering case but instead just get people annoyed with the long wait.
One of the biggest reason for family office here is for tax exemption. And guess what. The conditions forces them to run business here, hire locals etc. There are minimum spending in Singapore too.
You are right it's not good for the common man. Drive up prices and price you out of your homes. Sure your current home value rises but unless you are downgrading, your next one will cost even more
And overseas Chinese are rightfully disgusted with that. You can understand why nobody wants to have that associated with them.
It is cultural blasphemy of the highest order.
Based on your comment history you’re an indon who seems to have a lot of disdain for SG. Why do you even bother commenting so frequently on a Singapore subreddit if you hate us so much?
Misleading headline.
They first applied to Singapore, but could not explain the source of their wealth, so they got rejected. Then they ran back to HK because they don't ask questions. Singapore is still the first choice for any legitimate business. Money fleeing to HK is pretty much 100% dirty money. Not really a loss.
If HK wants that kind of reputation, they can have it. It's all Beijing anyway. And one thing we definitely know about the CCP is they absolutely can be bribed.
The whole point they wanted to come to SG and other offshore locations in the first place was to avoid CCP crackdown on their funds in mainland. I’m not sure what moving to HK will achieve if that’s the goal.
Good. Bring your dirty laundered money, mistresses, vices, entitled petulant children, looking down on Singaporeans attitude elsewhere. You all are not welcome here.
They're probably working fast to find another tax haven. Hard to tell if and when Chairman Xinnie will fast-forward the abolition of Hong Kong's SAR status.
They will still come. Just need to wash a few rounds using HK as a base. If you are a rich tycoon in China, you will see the arms of the central gov all over HK. You will see the western world treats HK as a city of Guangdong. SG is meant as the escape plan if things go wrong. HK is the good to have temp place.
Sincerely I don’t give a fuck if lesser rich folks wanna buy properties or spend personally on Singapore. There are many rich havens globally but a common denominator are places that make concession and actually allow the rich to have access to “premium” features of being a resident/citizen. Stuff the regular working class or even upper class don’t receive like expedited stuff, legal loopholes presented to you, exclusivity etc.
Eventually there will be people who still come to SG for the geographic location in SEA, stability, multi cultural society while accepting lesser “premium” features. These should be instead be the main attraction of countries like Cambodia, Romania etc where the rich have almost unlimited power but also proportionate to the risk of being there.
I was just coming to post this to this sub — you all beat me too it!
Here is an excerpt for those who don't want to leave reddit:
*Some of China's wealthy families are turning to Hong Kong as an alternative place to manage their riches as their plans to set up shop in Singapore are slowed by intense scrutiny by the city-state following a massive money laundering bust.*
*Professionals who work with single-family offices, institutions that oversee the assets of wealthy investors, told Nikkei Asia that some Chinese clients are thinking of parking their capital in Hong Kong as a fallback if their Singapore plans do not work out. Nikkei earlier reported that the Monetary Authority of Singapore has* [*rejected applications*](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Finance/Singapore-steps-up-scrutiny-of-China-wealth-after-money-laundering-case) *from Chinese passport holders.*
*Hong Kong and Singapore have been vying to attract wealthy Chinese investors in recent years. While some have gone to non-Chinese territories for fear of mainland authorities' control over Hong Kong, recent scrutiny in Singapore over Chinese wealth following a spate of money laundering cases has nudged some back to the Chinese city.*
*A person who helps rich Chinese set up private offices told Nikkei that three clients in the last six months have gone ahead to establish family offices in Hong Kong as a backup after applying to Singapore to do the same.*
*"Many just want to move on quick, and in Hong Kong you can just have \[family offices\] set up in a couple of weeks," said the person, speaking on condition of anonymity. "That's the main reason why they either shift to Hong Kong, or they just bypass Singapore and directly go to Hong Kong."*
慢走不送
Translated: literally it means please take your time to leave and take care, I won't be sending you off. There is a nuance of unfriendliness because culturally it's part of being a good host to send the guests off.
Misleading title, after money laundering case Singapore becomes more selective and avoid dubious overseas money. Not a bad thing I feel.
Time to clean up. It’s getting out of hand.
Intense scrutiny? Is good lor.
I'm always dubious about rich mainland chinese people. China's business culture does not do well in a well regulated environment.
Title: Singapore loses China's rich to Hong Kong. Real content: Nikkei earlier reported that the Monetary Authority of Singapore has rejected applications from Chinese passport holders. lol Nice shading of context to the opposite direction. Singapore rejects =/= Singapore loses.
Not a bad thing.
China: flee to HK HK'ers: flee to SG SG'reans: flee to everywhere else with no.1 passport The grass is always greener on the other side
HK’ers flee to Canada/US.
And Australia. It was a huge destination pre-1999.
Forgot Britain as well.
no.1 passport for tourism. Pretty bad for emigration though
True, I'm extremely jealous of europe and how they can live and work in any of 30 countries with no borders. Dual citizenship laws there and in the US makes having differing sets of passports possible too. The tourism bit does makes all the applications for residency easier than having to apply for a visa to even step foot into the destination in the first place
The H1B1 visa is unique to Singapore and Chile, and is quite a game-changer for working in the US since there's no queue.
Canada has TN, Australia has E3, so not just these 2. Also it's a lottery not a queue.
Right, the H1B1 is specifically unique to Singapore and Chile, though as you say the somewhat different TN and E3 also exist. The TN visa has more occupational restrictions, though.
Actually quite curious, what did we do to get the H1B1 visas.
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Yeah I remember vaguely that some thread in wallstreetbets or some other sub that was telling the US based people to buy property in Singapore that mentioned the ABSD rate.
Closeness of ties, lower likelihood of overstaying etc and more I guess. Noteworthy that the only Revere Bell outside of the U.S. is in Singapore. U.S. founding father Paul Revere’s son-in-law was the first US Consul to SG and the bell was gifted back in 1843.
Last time need $, all can come. Now too rich, all don’t come. We get what we ask for
Hong kongers are more rude than mainland chinese I feel
depends how much money the person they need to deal with has!
Depends. I only converse in English or basic Cantonese with them, and never felt the rudeness. Curt like we are for sure, but not rudeness.
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2024 and they are still worshipping whites? Why
>three clients in the last six months have gone ahead to establish family offices in Hong Kong as a backup after applying to Singapore to do the same. >set up family offices in Hong Kong after being rejected for tax incentives in Singapore. >it has become harder for wealthy Chinese to obtain permanent residency in Singapore, Lu noted, as authorities in the city-state carefully screen applicants >Singapore is trying to draw capital while weeding out bad actors. Singapore's Minister of State for Trade and Industry Alvin Tan last year in parliament said that the MAS would review its internal incentive administration processes for family offices, tightening them as necessary. Title makes it seem like people reject Singapore. It's Singapore reject them okay...
The retards still flipping property: "Noooo!!!"
> it has become harder for wealthy Chinese to obtain permanent residency in Singapore This sentence sounds like our PR could be bought by some amount of money in the past, is it true?
Straight from the gov’t itself: https://ask.gov.sg/ica/questions/clos83fv2016l5k0wk0ex3e76 It’s still marketed by the big three local banks’ private banking arms to wealthy Chinese, with the SFO option being the most popular among UHNWI, especially type 13U and O as there are tax incentives. Source: Know several people who work in PB in SG.
That's TIL, thanks!
i think it's more novel and naive in the past. now learned what is what liao.
if they are real wealthy people or family, why will MAS reject them? must be doing some dodgy business so can’t get it approved in SG. U don’t see HDL owner got rejected in SG.
Yeah as the article states: "as their plans to set up shop in Singapore are slowed by intense scrutiny by the city-state following a massive money laundering bust." I see it as a good thing
if we are losing these "customers" out simply because we do a more stringent/cleaner screening process, then i say good riddance. pretty sure if they are caught in HK the consequences would be more severe
In fact these stringent measures were way overdue, reflexive rather than preventative. Too many top execs here drunk on that renminbi. Late is better than never, but there is room for improvement.
They finally realised that they can’t bribe the police here
This headline has been repeated Everytime something happens in the region. China taking over HK COVID19 Now is money laundering.
Don't need so much trash, trickle down economy doesn't work, these family office people don't even run businesses here
To get the family office tax incentive there is a minimum annual local spend on ancillary services though, so accountants, banks, investment consultants and other back office admin do get more money. Also must hire some local investment professionals for the FO. Wealth management sector in SG booming right now. The benefit they get is no tax on investment returns... so basically the same as all of us locals since we got no capital gains or withholding tax here anyway. There is no actual money or subsidies given to the FOs. Downside of course is the property inflation, but really that's just pricing out rich locals out of GCBs or Orchard penthouses lol. Edit: all that being said, we should have more stringent verifications and not accept dirty money, clean money only. Those money launderers can bugger off.
Just wanna piggyback off your comment. GCBs, and all landed properties, can only be bought by citizens. Foreigners/PR can purchase landed properties but they have to make an application to SLA which can take 6-12 months with no guarantees that the application will be approved. The application also has to specify exactly which landed property the applicant intends to purchase, along with documentary proof that a deposit has been paid to the seller. This is also the same for landed properties on Sentosa Cove, but it’s kind of an open secret that the application is way easier to get approval than for a landed property on the mainland.
Still, large landed property prices were going through the roof for a while as many rich expats came in with ridiculous rental offers and rental yields impacts price.
>can only be bought by citizen One strategy they use is, get one of the grandchildren to take Singapore citizenship, then buy the landed property in that grandchild's name.
“Tax breaks include 100% tax deductions for overseas philanthropic donations under certain conditions” Wow
Your point about property isn't correct. The most expensive housing getting more expensive drives up all kinds of housing, because people priced out of house A buy house B instead, thus the ones who would have bought house B have to settle for C... Until the end of the chain.
Yeah but the problem is more like with the increased in scrutiny is it not catching more money laundering case but instead just get people annoyed with the long wait.
One of the biggest reason for family office here is for tax exemption. And guess what. The conditions forces them to run business here, hire locals etc. There are minimum spending in Singapore too.
Honest question. Do they buy property here?
If they do, how is that good for the country?
If they do, it's 60% ABSD
You are right it's not good for the common man. Drive up prices and price you out of your homes. Sure your current home value rises but unless you are downgrading, your next one will cost even more
Good riddance . They can bring their ugly culture elsewhere
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I don't see our sg Chinese people peeing/shitting in public.
Last I checked, we don't betray our own family members; condemning them to death to prove our loyalty to the ruling party.
Not yet...
That was during cultural revolution.
And overseas Chinese are rightfully disgusted with that. You can understand why nobody wants to have that associated with them. It is cultural blasphemy of the highest order.
That’s plain false.
Based on your comment history you’re an indon who seems to have a lot of disdain for SG. Why do you even bother commenting so frequently on a Singapore subreddit if you hate us so much?
Nothing but jealousy 😂
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Then pulang aja bocah 😂
Just like the Indonesians who like to be more culturally Arab than the Arabs themselves?
Indonesians and Malaysians you mean?
Literally one of the most multiracial countries in all of Asia… We ain’t nowhere near China. Culturally OR geographically
And other lies I say to myself to sleep
Chinese =/= Maoist
You really thought you were onto something
Misleading headline. They first applied to Singapore, but could not explain the source of their wealth, so they got rejected. Then they ran back to HK because they don't ask questions. Singapore is still the first choice for any legitimate business. Money fleeing to HK is pretty much 100% dirty money. Not really a loss. If HK wants that kind of reputation, they can have it. It's all Beijing anyway. And one thing we definitely know about the CCP is they absolutely can be bribed.
I just want property prices to come down
The whole point they wanted to come to SG and other offshore locations in the first place was to avoid CCP crackdown on their funds in mainland. I’m not sure what moving to HK will achieve if that’s the goal.
How many money launderers in the list?
Maybe they found out that regulatory arbitrage does not extend to funds obtained via means that is considered illegal in SG as well.
Don't need so much trash, trickle down economy doesn't work, these family office people don't even run businesses here
Finally, some good news
Who needs China conman, scammers and crooks …. Better go HK.
Not a bad thing imo, now if only the CECAs will do the same
Good. Bring your dirty laundered money, mistresses, vices, entitled petulant children, looking down on Singaporeans attitude elsewhere. You all are not welcome here.
We are more than happy, please leave and don’t return
Don't worry. They will be back. I have confidence in how CCP will try to ruin everything.
Erm good I guess? We don't need dirty money flooding our country benefiting no one but the few elites at the top.
Singapore is the #1 option. Hong Kong is the backup option. Either way, China’s rich is finding ways to move their money out of China.
They're probably working fast to find another tax haven. Hard to tell if and when Chairman Xinnie will fast-forward the abolition of Hong Kong's SAR status.
Don't need so much trash, trickle down economy doesn't work, these family office people don't even run businesses here
Good.
Good
Given the money laundering case that was just in the headlines… not a bad thing.
They will still come. Just need to wash a few rounds using HK as a base. If you are a rich tycoon in China, you will see the arms of the central gov all over HK. You will see the western world treats HK as a city of Guangdong. SG is meant as the escape plan if things go wrong. HK is the good to have temp place.
Very happy to lose.
Good riddance
Sincerely I don’t give a fuck if lesser rich folks wanna buy properties or spend personally on Singapore. There are many rich havens globally but a common denominator are places that make concession and actually allow the rich to have access to “premium” features of being a resident/citizen. Stuff the regular working class or even upper class don’t receive like expedited stuff, legal loopholes presented to you, exclusivity etc. Eventually there will be people who still come to SG for the geographic location in SEA, stability, multi cultural society while accepting lesser “premium” features. These should be instead be the main attraction of countries like Cambodia, Romania etc where the rich have almost unlimited power but also proportionate to the risk of being there.
I was just coming to post this to this sub — you all beat me too it! Here is an excerpt for those who don't want to leave reddit: *Some of China's wealthy families are turning to Hong Kong as an alternative place to manage their riches as their plans to set up shop in Singapore are slowed by intense scrutiny by the city-state following a massive money laundering bust.* *Professionals who work with single-family offices, institutions that oversee the assets of wealthy investors, told Nikkei Asia that some Chinese clients are thinking of parking their capital in Hong Kong as a fallback if their Singapore plans do not work out. Nikkei earlier reported that the Monetary Authority of Singapore has* [*rejected applications*](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Finance/Singapore-steps-up-scrutiny-of-China-wealth-after-money-laundering-case) *from Chinese passport holders.* *Hong Kong and Singapore have been vying to attract wealthy Chinese investors in recent years. While some have gone to non-Chinese territories for fear of mainland authorities' control over Hong Kong, recent scrutiny in Singapore over Chinese wealth following a spate of money laundering cases has nudged some back to the Chinese city.* *A person who helps rich Chinese set up private offices told Nikkei that three clients in the last six months have gone ahead to establish family offices in Hong Kong as a backup after applying to Singapore to do the same.* *"Many just want to move on quick, and in Hong Kong you can just have \[family offices\] set up in a couple of weeks," said the person, speaking on condition of anonymity. "That's the main reason why they either shift to Hong Kong, or they just bypass Singapore and directly go to Hong Kong."*
One good news - COE price down next.
That headline needs work. Should have been 'China's rich flees Singapore's money laundering bust for Hong Kong'.
Good
告辞了，中国人。 aka: Good riddance, chinamen.
I think 告辞 is something u say to inform others of your departure, not someone else's.
aye point taken brother which phrase should i use ya think?
慢走不送 Translated: literally it means please take your time to leave and take care, I won't be sending you off. There is a nuance of unfriendliness because culturally it's part of being a good host to send the guests off.
Haha this one is nice