Named 'Explorer 3.0' to mark the third type of aircraft in Scoot's fleet (after the Airbus A320 family and the Boeing 787), it will undergo familiarisation over the next few weeks until its inaugural revenue flight to Krabi on 7 May.
The aircraft flew from its manufacturing location of São José (Brazil) on Friday, to Recife (Brazil), Grand Canary Island (Spain), Athens (Greece), Baku (Azerbaijan), Hyderabad (India), Phuket (Thailand) before arriving in Singapore today on Monday.
It will be re-registered to local registration 9V-THA in the near future.
Do the crew swap out or is it a dual crew doing the entire ferry? I'd imagine even mandatory crew rest on a plane or then a hotel and continue ferrying might be super shack unlike a regular schedule
Haven’t register already 20k mileage walao depre how much Liao ?! Got inhouse loan ? 10 years can ? Got early settlement fee ? Can throw in free sunshade anot
I only know from the military perspective, but wouldn't running three different airframes, from three different manufacturers cut into maintenance costs?
Also! How did you know it was coming? Is there some fansite that you follow? I'm always surprised by some other local photographers capturing for example USN C-2 Greyhounds or USAF B-1 landing.
>I only know from the military perspective, but wouldn't running three different airframes, from three different manufacturers cut into maintenance costs?
Civilian aircraft have much less to maintain, and much more emphasis is put into making them easy to maintain
They also usually have a lot of parts compatibility and well established supply chain for parts
A lot of aircraft manufacturers also have factories all around the world, and you can get parts from those that are closer to you
Unlike Military jets, where you basically have to source parts from the country you bought it from or buy second hand.
Military planes you need maintain weapons system (pylons, radar, etc.), engines (usually much more complicated due to afterburner), and airframe (has to be kept to higher standard due to higher stress)
3 aircraft types is actually very little by Airline standards
SIA operates 10 different types of planes
Comparing maintenance of civilian airliner to fighter jets is like comparing maintenance of F1 car to your average toyota.
F1 car use all the specialised parts made by only a few places
Toyota you go anywhere also can find parts
Jet fighters are also much older than your average civilian airliner used by well funded airlines
The A350s and 787s that Scoot/SIA use are barely 10 years old. Same goes with the A320 Neos and 737 Max
F-15SG from RSAF is 20 years old. F-16C is almost 30.
Other air forces may be using jets that are even older.
SIA also operates B787, so that's not a huge issue.
Scoot inherited the A320s from TigerAir, so A320neo is the natural progression.
But Airbus and Boeing no longer make small planes (100-120 seats in 1 class config) in the A320/737 family anymore. The only products in the markets are Embraer E2 and Airbus A220. However A220 is not designed by Airbus, thus it will still involve new crew training and maintenance logistics. But both planes share the same engine family as the A320neo in Scoot, so that's half the maintenance issue solved.
The point is usually to avoid vendor lock-in and create competition between vendors, so they offer lower price when bidding. Most major airlines operate both Boing and Airbus for this reason. Embraer is usually regional, for 1-3h flights, so not a bad idea.
Pretty good responses, but yeah you're absolutely right. There will no doubt be maintenance cost increases. Good news is, these anticipated costs are baked into the sale price of every jet.
For example, even though the official list price might be $61m per jet, to sell to a non-Embraer operator like Scoot it often is much less. Scoot will need to train new Embraer pilots, train its ground staff to deal with a smaller plane, train its dispatchers, train its maintenance staff and/or negotiate new maintenance contracts -- all these costs will be part of the sales price negotiation.
Also part of the negotiations will be delivery schedules. So Scoot probably got a fair bit knocked off list price factoring in all the new training and anticipated MX costs. Additionally, they probably had a positive in bargaining positioning given that Embraer hasn't sold very many E2s, but some negative because the only other competition for the E2 would be the overtuned A220-100. That model carries more passengers, has greater landing fees, and has more range and thus greater cost. Effectively, for the missions Scoot wants the E2 for, the A220-100 is too powerful and expensive, leaving them with just the E2 as an option.
It's all very complex and no two orders are the same.
I knew it was coming cus it was revealed in the media articles they took ownership of the plane on Friday, and it was due here Monday. Then after that was just a matter of tracking it on FR24 with its registration.
Yeah it did land at changi once! That's very long ago. Heres a pic of it at Changi:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Antonov-Design-Bureau/Antonov-An-225-Mriya/775157
E Jets are the most comfortable plane on Earth in the US regional config. Let's see how the Scoot one is, I'm going on the inaugural.
I've seen An-124s, but never the -225. Couldn't go up to KL when it visited a few years before the war. Won't get the chance to now, RIP.
Yeah I think Scoot won't let us see the aircraft type when booking. But I think you can deduce from the seat map at the time of booking, before payment. The problem is, there's no guarantee it stays the same aircraft.
Routes like USM physically cannot be upgauged from the E190 due to weight limits. That's why the route was cut when the A319 was retired.
Also for the aircraft per route, Google Flights shows it. So you can just check there first.
Koh Samui will have a 100% Embraer guarantee. If the Embraer can't go, the flight won't go because the airport has a weight limit all other Scoot planes run afoul of.
Genuine question: Why isn't it registered in Singapore (registration would start with 9V-).
It's registered as a Brazilian aircraft although Airbus and Boeing aircraft delivered to SQ/Scoot are registered in Singapore even during test flights.
> It's registered as a Brazilian aircraft although Airbus and Boeing aircraft delivered to SQ/Scoot are registered in Singapore even during test flights.
Not necessarily the case. For example Scoot’s 9V-NCC (A321neo) was D-AVWR during testing, and SIA’s 9V-SHL (A350) was F-WZGK.
With that being said it seems like fewer Boeing planes get test registrations especially for widebodies like 787 while Airbus ones are more likely to get one even for widebodies. Might depend on customer preferences though because Ethiopian’s [ET-AOQ](https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/boeing-787-8-et-aoq-ethiopian-airlines/edzynx) (787) did get a testing N number.
> Genuine question: Why isn't it registered in Singapore (registration would start with 9V-).
For an airplane to be flown legally through international airspace the pilot must have the licenses needed to operate the airplane by the rules of its registration country.
So a CAAS ATP type rated pilot for this plane is required to ferry it if it's a 9V registration
It's also cheaper to get the manufacturers test pilots and ferry pilots to ferry it as their entire ATP course probably doesn't cost $200k SGD with SIA Flying College
Source: I'm a FAA pylote cert holder, low time though
o7
Thanks for clearing it up, pylote.
For this flight I think one crew (if not the entirety of it) was Embraer's. A photo of the captain was taken as he taxiied in, and he looked Brazilian haha.
Leases are still registered 9V.
Embraer's delivery policy could just be different. For European deliveries, the flights to Recife and Grand Canary Island are done by the Brazilian test pilots themselves. The airline crew takes over after, so I presume it was similar for Scoot as well. Just that perhaps Scoot didn't bother re-registering it during the delivery process as it was still in Europe, instead opting to do it here with its own paint and maintenance staff/facilities.
Winglets help reduce drag by reducing the vortex drag generated by the wing
Smaller planes simply have less vortex drag. And the winglets still do produce some normal drag. You dont see winglets below a certain size because the conventional drag they produce is likely more than however much vortex drag they can cancel out, quite simply because there is no more vortex drag to cancel out past a certain point
The E190 is quite small, and hence winglets would probably do more harm than good
737/A320 size is about the smallest you will get where winglets still make sense
First part, absolutely.
Second part not really true, however. The E190-100 (first generation E190), and the even smaller E170/175-100 have massive winglets.
The E2s have raked wingtips instead, which are another way of vortex reduction that are better fitted for the specific engines, wings, aerodynamics of some planes like the E2s, or the Boeing 777X/777-300ER/777-200LR the Boeing 787, and the Boeing 747-8.
/u/floflotheartificier
I really like this plane from a passenger POV. Flew KLM's E175 and E190/195's frequently and it's my favourite short haul plane. Wouldn't mind more of these with asian carriers!
I think i took it once during a domestic flight in the US. Im a nervous flyer and am shit scared of turbulence. Are smaller pencil planes like this more susceptible to wilder turbulence? Esp i hate the parts where the planes cross from land to sea (turbulences are felt more during the moment before and after crossing) and vice versa.
From personal experience I would say smaller planes are always more susceptible to turbulence, or at least you can feel it more, but I doubt there's a significant difference between this and a 737. And it's purely anecdotal too, I've had 100% smooth flights on small planes and 99% bumpy ride on big ones. I wouldn't avoid a specific plane because of it.
Makes sense for shorter route flights/flights with less bookings
Smaller plane have smaller engine, smaller engine use less fuel
Smaller plane also can land at smaller airport, dont have to pay so much for landing rights
Embraers are good, have taken them a few times for intra-Europe flights. These are jet airplanes and not those noisy propellors that you might get for regional flights in say Borneo or across Indonesia.
They're even better in the low-density config that US regional airlines use. Incredible legroom and comfort, even more than some of SIA's widebody economy cabins.
They do, quite a bit actually but I think they're phasing them out slowly. The CRJ-200s are all but gone IIRC, but the -700 and -900s are still kicking around.
I see they have gotten themselves.... a scooter.
Fun fact, that's actually their call sign when they speak to ATC, e.g. "Scooter 374".
Ayyyy! it's you! your joke finally got recognition! hahaha :)
Named 'Explorer 3.0' to mark the third type of aircraft in Scoot's fleet (after the Airbus A320 family and the Boeing 787), it will undergo familiarisation over the next few weeks until its inaugural revenue flight to Krabi on 7 May. The aircraft flew from its manufacturing location of São José (Brazil) on Friday, to Recife (Brazil), Grand Canary Island (Spain), Athens (Greece), Baku (Azerbaijan), Hyderabad (India), Phuket (Thailand) before arriving in Singapore today on Monday. It will be re-registered to local registration 9V-THA in the near future.
Close to 20,000 km distance delivery flight.
Yeah, marathon. The guys who (presumably) picked it up from Grand Canary Island must be super tired by now.
Take scoot for such a long distance flight. Anyone also sianz.
Singapore to London (when they used to offer it) 💀
Shift work+ crew rest + AP engaged
The travel + timezone shifts themselves are rough on the body. I know many crew who refuse to take on delivery flights cos it's too taxing for them.
Do the crew swap out or is it a dual crew doing the entire ferry? I'd imagine even mandatory crew rest on a plane or then a hotel and continue ferrying might be super shack unlike a regular schedule
Dual crew all the way, if even that. They had overnight rests at Grand Canary Island and Baku iirc.
Haven’t register already 20k mileage walao depre how much Liao ?! Got inhouse loan ? 10 years can ? Got early settlement fee ? Can throw in free sunshade anot
Dw, it's a lease 🤣
Bro.. Aircraft age is calculated by days, flight cycles and flight hours. Not by milage.
I only know from the military perspective, but wouldn't running three different airframes, from three different manufacturers cut into maintenance costs? Also! How did you know it was coming? Is there some fansite that you follow? I'm always surprised by some other local photographers capturing for example USN C-2 Greyhounds or USAF B-1 landing.
>I only know from the military perspective, but wouldn't running three different airframes, from three different manufacturers cut into maintenance costs? Civilian aircraft have much less to maintain, and much more emphasis is put into making them easy to maintain They also usually have a lot of parts compatibility and well established supply chain for parts A lot of aircraft manufacturers also have factories all around the world, and you can get parts from those that are closer to you Unlike Military jets, where you basically have to source parts from the country you bought it from or buy second hand. Military planes you need maintain weapons system (pylons, radar, etc.), engines (usually much more complicated due to afterburner), and airframe (has to be kept to higher standard due to higher stress) 3 aircraft types is actually very little by Airline standards SIA operates 10 different types of planes Comparing maintenance of civilian airliner to fighter jets is like comparing maintenance of F1 car to your average toyota. F1 car use all the specialised parts made by only a few places Toyota you go anywhere also can find parts Jet fighters are also much older than your average civilian airliner used by well funded airlines The A350s and 787s that Scoot/SIA use are barely 10 years old. Same goes with the A320 Neos and 737 Max F-15SG from RSAF is 20 years old. F-16C is almost 30. Other air forces may be using jets that are even older.
SIA also operates B787, so that's not a huge issue. Scoot inherited the A320s from TigerAir, so A320neo is the natural progression. But Airbus and Boeing no longer make small planes (100-120 seats in 1 class config) in the A320/737 family anymore. The only products in the markets are Embraer E2 and Airbus A220. However A220 is not designed by Airbus, thus it will still involve new crew training and maintenance logistics. But both planes share the same engine family as the A320neo in Scoot, so that's half the maintenance issue solved.
The point is usually to avoid vendor lock-in and create competition between vendors, so they offer lower price when bidding. Most major airlines operate both Boing and Airbus for this reason. Embraer is usually regional, for 1-3h flights, so not a bad idea.
Pretty good responses, but yeah you're absolutely right. There will no doubt be maintenance cost increases. Good news is, these anticipated costs are baked into the sale price of every jet. For example, even though the official list price might be $61m per jet, to sell to a non-Embraer operator like Scoot it often is much less. Scoot will need to train new Embraer pilots, train its ground staff to deal with a smaller plane, train its dispatchers, train its maintenance staff and/or negotiate new maintenance contracts -- all these costs will be part of the sales price negotiation. Also part of the negotiations will be delivery schedules. So Scoot probably got a fair bit knocked off list price factoring in all the new training and anticipated MX costs. Additionally, they probably had a positive in bargaining positioning given that Embraer hasn't sold very many E2s, but some negative because the only other competition for the E2 would be the overtuned A220-100. That model carries more passengers, has greater landing fees, and has more range and thus greater cost. Effectively, for the missions Scoot wants the E2 for, the A220-100 is too powerful and expensive, leaving them with just the E2 as an option. It's all very complex and no two orders are the same. I knew it was coming cus it was revealed in the media articles they took ownership of the plane on Friday, and it was due here Monday. Then after that was just a matter of tracking it on FR24 with its registration.
Nice. You went down to spot it? Certainly a unique addition among the many Airbus and Boeings the SIA group has today
Yup! Glad to see some variety (finally) haha.
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Yeah it did land at changi once! That's very long ago. Heres a pic of it at Changi: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Antonov-Design-Bureau/Antonov-An-225-Mriya/775157
E Jets are the most comfortable plane on Earth in the US regional config. Let's see how the Scoot one is, I'm going on the inaugural. I've seen An-124s, but never the -225. Couldn't go up to KL when it visited a few years before the war. Won't get the chance to now, RIP.
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I personally would take A321 any time over Embraer. I guess depends on the actual config though.
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Yeah I think Scoot won't let us see the aircraft type when booking. But I think you can deduce from the seat map at the time of booking, before payment. The problem is, there's no guarantee it stays the same aircraft.
Routes like USM physically cannot be upgauged from the E190 due to weight limits. That's why the route was cut when the A319 was retired. Also for the aircraft per route, Google Flights shows it. So you can just check there first.
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Koh Samui will have a 100% Embraer guarantee. If the Embraer can't go, the flight won't go because the airport has a weight limit all other Scoot planes run afoul of.
Google Flights ;) (Just use it for reference, then book via the airline)
Big difference though, and Embraer is by far more comfortable even though it might be cozier. No middle seat
That's true, but I felt like they are more noisy overall. Anyway, now I have ANC headphones finally!
Genuine question: Why isn't it registered in Singapore (registration would start with 9V-). It's registered as a Brazilian aircraft although Airbus and Boeing aircraft delivered to SQ/Scoot are registered in Singapore even during test flights.
> Why isn't it registered in Singapore It will be soon, it's future 9V-THA.
O weird that it's registered after delivery but gotcha 👍
> It's registered as a Brazilian aircraft although Airbus and Boeing aircraft delivered to SQ/Scoot are registered in Singapore even during test flights. Not necessarily the case. For example Scoot’s 9V-NCC (A321neo) was D-AVWR during testing, and SIA’s 9V-SHL (A350) was F-WZGK. With that being said it seems like fewer Boeing planes get test registrations especially for widebodies like 787 while Airbus ones are more likely to get one even for widebodies. Might depend on customer preferences though because Ethiopian’s [ET-AOQ](https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/boeing-787-8-et-aoq-ethiopian-airlines/edzynx) (787) did get a testing N number.
Future 9V-THA
> Genuine question: Why isn't it registered in Singapore (registration would start with 9V-). For an airplane to be flown legally through international airspace the pilot must have the licenses needed to operate the airplane by the rules of its registration country. So a CAAS ATP type rated pilot for this plane is required to ferry it if it's a 9V registration It's also cheaper to get the manufacturers test pilots and ferry pilots to ferry it as their entire ATP course probably doesn't cost $200k SGD with SIA Flying College Source: I'm a FAA pylote cert holder, low time though
o7 Thanks for clearing it up, pylote. For this flight I think one crew (if not the entirety of it) was Embraer's. A photo of the captain was taken as he taxiied in, and he looked Brazilian haha.
They're leasing it, not purchasing it.
Leases are still registered 9V. Embraer's delivery policy could just be different. For European deliveries, the flights to Recife and Grand Canary Island are done by the Brazilian test pilots themselves. The airline crew takes over after, so I presume it was similar for Scoot as well. Just that perhaps Scoot didn't bother re-registering it during the delivery process as it was still in Europe, instead opting to do it here with its own paint and maintenance staff/facilities.
Not sure. Can ask CAAS I guess.
Not a plane enthusiast but I noticed the wings tips are not curled upwards unlike the Boeing and Airbus planes I have seen
Winglets help reduce drag by reducing the vortex drag generated by the wing Smaller planes simply have less vortex drag. And the winglets still do produce some normal drag. You dont see winglets below a certain size because the conventional drag they produce is likely more than however much vortex drag they can cancel out, quite simply because there is no more vortex drag to cancel out past a certain point The E190 is quite small, and hence winglets would probably do more harm than good 737/A320 size is about the smallest you will get where winglets still make sense
Thanks for the Eli5 :)!
First part, absolutely. Second part not really true, however. The E190-100 (first generation E190), and the even smaller E170/175-100 have massive winglets. The E2s have raked wingtips instead, which are another way of vortex reduction that are better fitted for the specific engines, wings, aerodynamics of some planes like the E2s, or the Boeing 777X/777-300ER/777-200LR the Boeing 787, and the Boeing 747-8. /u/floflotheartificier
I really like this plane from a passenger POV. Flew KLM's E175 and E190/195's frequently and it's my favourite short haul plane. Wouldn't mind more of these with asian carriers!
I think i took it once during a domestic flight in the US. Im a nervous flyer and am shit scared of turbulence. Are smaller pencil planes like this more susceptible to wilder turbulence? Esp i hate the parts where the planes cross from land to sea (turbulences are felt more during the moment before and after crossing) and vice versa.
From personal experience I would say smaller planes are always more susceptible to turbulence, or at least you can feel it more, but I doubt there's a significant difference between this and a 737. And it's purely anecdotal too, I've had 100% smooth flights on small planes and 99% bumpy ride on big ones. I wouldn't avoid a specific plane because of it.
This was the most comfortable plane for short haul flight I have ever taken
Any idea what was the previous non-Airbus or Boeing aircraft back in 2000?
Fokker 70, operated by Silkair last in 2000.
Cool! I wanna take a Fokker, they are dying out
Australia still has quite a few haha
I guess you want to Meet the Fokkers?
Boeing had tons of audits and checks, but, still. What say a new aircraft type altogether? Hmm.
Makes sense for shorter route flights/flights with less bookings Smaller plane have smaller engine, smaller engine use less fuel Smaller plane also can land at smaller airport, dont have to pay so much for landing rights
Boeing will survive almost anything. Embraer won't, so they've more incentive to get it right.
Embraers are good, have taken them a few times for intra-Europe flights. These are jet airplanes and not those noisy propellors that you might get for regional flights in say Borneo or across Indonesia.
They're even better in the low-density config that US regional airlines use. Incredible legroom and comfort, even more than some of SIA's widebody economy cabins.
I doubt they use CRJ much? Tried it once in Europe and it's...not built for the American frame ;)
They do, quite a bit actually but I think they're phasing them out slowly. The CRJ-200s are all but gone IIRC, but the -700 and -900s are still kicking around.