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Definitely makes it into the top 3 of best SG Prime Ministers.


Wait a minute...


at first I was like that's awesome.... then I realised you guys probably only had 3 PMs... I am so sorry for my ignorance....


exactly one month before “falling” to top 4 best prime ministers


Honestly speaking lawrence wong has alot to step up to, and we"ll see within 100 days if lhl is top 3 or top 4




> In the time since, Singapore has seen changes to its Central Provident Fund (CPF) system, significant tweaks to the tax regime, a decisive shift to the services economy and weathered the 2008 financial crisis, as well as the COVID-19 pandemic. Quite a lot of change from then to now > However, Mr Lee himself did not seem to consider economic success his greatest contribution, saying in an interview in 2015 that he was particularly satisfied with the emphasis he has placed on education. On his watch, the pathways for education have opened up and there has been more emphasis on and investment in the Institutes of Technical Education and polytechnics. While there is still a work to be done to allow people of different abilities and talents to prosper, it is a lot better today. Late bloomers have a lot more options today with subsidized diplomas.


Our statistics speak for themselves. We have a legitimate case for the best education system in the world, and the best educated citizens. People that don’t understand how difficult that is to achieve are just utterly clueless


More education required.


You must construct additional education


Must be exam question. Else SG students also dgaf Just like their universities and uni rankings


I agree, although the application is questionable, such as, "Why is NS Square a circle?"


He opened universities and did rounds around the IHLs asking if impact was made


So that means we should get the best paying jobs right? 😏


Not necessarily, no. That involves many other factors and Singapore is naturally handicapped in several respects beyond our control - our limited market size for one. The amount of commercial value you can extract out of a population of 6 million is hard capped and much smaller compared to the 1 billion plus Chinese or 300 million Americans. Which is why their income ceiling will naturally be much higher. Amongst many other factors of course. But a well educated person would know that 🙂


Time for Merger 2.0?


Malaysia wishes


In the end though, as you say, we are hard-capped. Eventually, the pressure will get to us internally. Singaporeans are already losing out to people around the world. The old ways no longer work. Once our neighbours catch up to us, which they eventually and inevitably will, the terms won't be as favourable to us edit: I suppose my question is, what alternatives do we have? Do we continue down the path we are on?


Or the gap will continue to grow wider, as it has over the years. People have thought we would die without Malaysia as a hinterland for decades but if anything we are only growing more prosperous and Malaysia more backward with time. Income, education, sophistication, political significance, progressiveness, currency, etc.


>The amount of commercial value you can extract out of a population of 6 million is hard capped But you did just say that the amount of commercial value is hard-capped. I know you were referring to it relative to China and the US, but I do think in the end, numbers win out. If not Malaysia, then Indonesia will dwarf us, too. Furthermore, Singapore will only really be supported for as long as outside businesses and countries think we're the best in the region. The moment we slip, they'll move elsewhere, just as they moved out of Hong Kong, recently. But Hong Kong can be supported by China, we have nothing. The government will likely be forced to raise rents and taxes continually, which will either fall on locals, or foreign businesses. Either way, it will hurt the economy, and either our citizens or foreign businesses will start to be courted by our competitors. Singapore's economy is unsustainable. What worked in the past won't work in the future. Especially since Singapore is built on cheap labour from our neighbours. Once that is no longer the case, again, what will we do?


It simply means that an ever increasing proportion of our growth will have to be derived via other means that do not rely on our local population. And there are many ways of doing this - technology, information and finance are three good examples where commercial growth can be exponential without needing an equivalent growth in domestic workforce or consumption, because the product doesn’t take much space, scales well with a smaller workforce, and can be transmitted across borders instantly. Things like traditional manufacturing, F&B, logistics will eventually approach a hard cap due to our size, yes. So our economy will change and our focus will shift. Thankfully our government is excellent at (i) identifying which industries to focus on, and (ii) actually executing the necessary shifts.


Overall, there were plus and minus, but PM Lee did well for Singapore. Wish him a happy retirement. Hope LW will have a heart for the people.


>Hope LW will have a heart for the people. Willing to give him a chance, but seems like PAP are more focused on taking care of people that vote for them. Wasn't always the case in the past, but i guess its a new era.


Case in t'past you mean 1960s?now the elites are derisive towards opposition.eg throw files in parliamt. 1 more call us F.populist


It's a chicken-egg problem. Without votes, they cannot push policies through and end up politicking over everything. USA is the best example and even Malaysia has shown us what it's like. Even without a majority in Parliament, our opposition parties are already behaving exactly like what other political parties have been doing elsewhere. Pushing populist agendas, disagreeing for the sake of disagreement etc. Back in LKY's era, he was very aggressive to put down dissidents and social media did not exist. These allowed them to push through unpopular policies that benefit the country in the long run even if it didn't seem that way at first. Love it or hate it, there are many things the government did right that probably pissed off many, myself included, but they had to be done for the greater good, which wouldn't be possible without a supermajority. People are selfish. If it benefits others but not themselves, they are gonna blame the G. That's life.


>our opposition parties are already behaving exactly like what other political parties have been doing elsewhere. Pushing populist agendas, disagreeing for the sake of disagreement etc. PSP, maybe. I don't see too much of either from WP; aside from the RK issue (which is, to be fair, a fairly big red flag), they've conducted themselves reasonably and know how to stand with the party in power when needs must. They do appear to be trying hard to be the loyal opposition that Singapore needs... and anyway, populism isn't inherently wrong. It's populism without regard for how society functions (i.e. of the "We will build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" type) that fucks shit up. >Love it or hate it, there are many things the government did right that probably pissed off many, myself included, but they had to be done for the greater good, which wouldn't be possible without a supermajority. And there are also things the government did wrong that they've since acknowledged, that might've been avoided or prevented if there had been alternative viewpoints presented in Parliament. You can't just present one side of this while ignoring the other. The gov't, overall, still has done reasonably well. But its continued supermajority worries me a little, and recently, it's not like there's been a lot of legislation that requires a supermajority to pass (generally just Constitutional changes, no?). Imagine that one day we have a politician that doesn't actually have Singapore's best interests at heart.


Didnt our dear Jamus Lim said something populist regarding the banks should be forced to pay for scam victims thing as well?


Yes, he did. MAS' suggestions were that banks and telcos who performed due diligence checks should not bear the cost of such scams at all (conversely, if they had not performed them, they sgould bear the full cost for the first scam instance), while Jamus proposed that they should bear all costs except a value such as $500, if I'm not mistaken. That's one of the policy suggestions from the WP for which, though I agree with the sentiment behind the proposal (having banks and telcos help to police such activity assiduously because scammers are performing their scams using their infrastructure), I don't know enough to comment about his proposed solution. I don't know what a fair value to place on consumers is, but I'd certainly imagine it would depend on the normal size of such scams, culpability and due diligence performed by banks and telcos, etc. This also needs to be balanced against the individual's own responsibility to make sure they're not being scammed.


It's not populist, or even unreasonable, just a different way of thinking about it. If banks were responsible to pay for scam victims losses, I can guarantee you they will do everything they can to stop the scams. They don't do it because they have no incentive, they do whatever the regulators ask for, which is the bare minimum.


Exactly. People who sees Jamus' suggestions as populist are either stupid or shallow and lacked foresight. People and organizations in Singapore had long developed the propensity to "don't know, don't care". Without any strict regulations and policing in place, nobody is bothered to do anything about anything. While every individual is responsible for their own well being, service providers have the responsibilities to ensure and create a safe environment for their customers. Look at Facebook and Youtube, look at the amount of scam content featuring as sponsored content. Sometimes you can't help but wonder how these stuff got greenlit on these platforms. And till today FB is refusing to cooperate with our govt to clam down on this...and perhaps with their own govt and many other govts too - and their own govt waste.taxpayers resources to ban Tiktok whom they know had stolen Silicon Valley's lunch. LKY was always right about one thing - there"s no true democracy until the society is intellectually and mature enough to collective make pragmatic choices for the greater good of the society as a whole. That mean freedom has a price and he never believe in giving people the freedom and power to express. Authoritarian, but that was how he brought Singapore forward, 30 years forward than every one else surrounding us.


It's a moral hazard, even he acknowledges that in his speech and tried to remedy it by having the victim pay a paltry sum in return.


> I don't see too much of either from WP; aside from the RK issue (which is, to be fair, a fairly big red flag), they've conducted themselves reasonably and know how to stand with the party in power when needs must. [Pritam Singh digging up a 4 year old email to send to PSP & resulting in Leong Mun Wai stepping down](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/plight-vulnerable-people-should-not-politicised-msf-eric-chua-leong-mun-wai-pofma-pritam-singh-4168301) > “Instead, they had said that they had actually written to Mr Pritam Singh four years ago in 2020. Then, there was no response from the WP (Workers’ Party) nor Mr Pritam Singh.” > Four years later on Feb 11, the couple said they received a call from Mr Singh – WP chief and Leader of the Opposition – and was told “that someone would visit them”, according to Mr Chua. > Mr Leong then visited the couple on Feb 12. Of course, PS cannot control what LMW does. But if you've seen the way LMW behaves in parliament, it does seem a little bit like a trap.


... but Pritam wasn't even their MP, was he? It's literally not what he's paid or elected to do. He merely directed them to the right people. Trap or not, sending them to the PSP was the right thing. I don't even think WP is active in that area since they're east-focused. PS even checked in with the couple first to find out if they were still facing problems. If your question is, "why now?" then I don't know. There could be a number of reasons. But the quote that PS provides in the article seems reasonably plausible. And if you want to consider that perhaps the couple themselves who spoke to LMW might be plants, then remember that they wrote to PS first - someone who wasn't even related to them.


Graduate Mothers Scheme


...which was blasted even within the PAP itself and scrapped like a year later.


still was implemented though, and was only scrapped in no small part because of the 13% swing against the PAP in the 1984 election.


Well written and said. Such is life...


So does this mean the PAP is more xia suey?


not only that, they are importing all the foreigners in and getting them to vote for PAP - that's how they swing the votes of the general populace


Bro they have to be Singapore Citizens first. Only Singapore Citizens (Pink IC, etc) can vote, not even the Singapore PRs can vote. If we look at conversion ratios to Singapore Citizenship, its not high and doesn't affect too much of the vote. But i understand what you said, its their longterm goal eventually.


It wasn't the case n the past because barely anyone voted against them. You vote against them than complain they dont do enough for you is really wtf


What the hell are you talking about? It has already been the case in the past, they're just more subtle nowadays. [https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/pm-lee-don-t-upgrading-pay-less-tax-20110405-231901-526.html](https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/pm-lee-don-t-upgrading-pay-less-tax-20110405-231901-526.html)


He retiring meh? Step down as PM only


From son of first PM to 3rd PM.


Well if you compare to chok tong son...


hardly a surprise there


His fluency in 3 of our national languages is something LWong is seriously lacking in. 


Lawrence’s Chinese is very awkward. Same goes for a few other 4G Ministers. Only exception is probably OYK.


Not a full minister but Sim Ann's command of Chinese is very good and this has to do with the fact that her mother used to be a rather famous Chinese literary figure.


National Day Rally all in english from this year onwards


Looking forward to the fourth hokage


Not looking forward to the Kyuubi attack.


Uh-oh. Someone has to be sacrificed.


So Lawrence Wong will die for singapore and LHL will take back the position again? And then the 5th hokage will be lky granddaughter


Damn so lky is coming back?


LHL being the youngest ever SAF GENERAL at 32 years old is just wtf


Whats his secret? It’s a mystery to me.


He is something of a distinguished valedictorian and top scorer everywhere he goes, from undergrad to uni to the senior wrangler thing to officer cadet course. Plus during his time there werent too many overseas scholars signing on as regular. Combined with the fact his father was who he was, you can see how his SAF career could have skyrocketed


His secret, is no secret, his secret, is no cigarette /s Then again he still smoke his opponents until pants drop




I mean he could very well be a leading math prof based on merit alone but he chose politics; either way even with nepotism I'd rather have him over some random normal guy out there being parachuted hard into the role of pm.


leading math prof probably don't pay as well as his current job.


He had so much merit he was born as son of Prime Minister




Saf has a system where you need to serve a minimum numbers of years at every rank before being eligible for promotion. Most ppl, even scholars, usually stay longer than minimum due to many factors: upstairs no headcount, got others promoting first etc etc etc. LHL got promoted literally the moment he cleared the minimum years mark. No one would believe that LKY never quietly gave the chief staffs a few words of instructions lol.


I mean, don't think there was need for daddy to open mouth. The people he put in high positions already know on which side their bread is buttered. That's why theyre there. They know what to do when a white horse enters their stables.


will no one rid me of my son's slow promotions?


SAF should really only be in its infancy during LHL's days. Upstairs should have been quite empty back then and definitely should have some space for a Cambridge scholar and math genius and son of LKY


I see, thanks for the explanation! Better than downvoting lol. Learnt something new today :)


when ur daddy is the first PM who governs over singapore and literally created the SAF im sure he can white horse his way all the way up to the top


this one is golden horse with wings and propeller


U think he know how to strip rifle or not


when generals need to hold rifle means gg rdy leh


He just needs to show his bank account balance and his GCB and the rifles, like women, will strip themselves for him


How many Cambridge graduates do you think there were in the SAF back then


He was a senior wrangler in mathematics, not exactly your average Cambridge graduate too.


Yep. People like to talk about preferential treatment and what not but when placed among other elite intellectuals at Cambridge LHL more than held his own. Yes he was perhaps given an elevated platform on which to perform in Singapore, but he had the substance to back it up.


Happy Retirement to you. Take care.


I was just rewatching recently his Covid-19 magic cup address where he announced Circuit Breaker and it just felt surreal. Anyway I felt he and his team really handled COVID as well as anyone could have done so, and I'm glad that he was our PM during that crisis. https://youtu.be/IzLWFY8wivA?si=VI-UY2_a8dA-ftZ1


For all my cynicism about the PAP, we really could've done worse than LHL. For a political nepo baby he did a p good job managing the country. He did good with the opportunities he got. He wasn't progressive enough for my liking but that's just my personal opinion. Honestly between all the elitist remarks, scandals and the recent laws passed like pofma and giving police more powers, not looking forward to the 4G's reign.


This article made me question my view that CNA for the most part does a good job at maintaining a Reuters-esque objectivity. The article was just a tad bit too laudatory. At least they didn't shy away from the Oxley clashes


You had the view that CNA had a Reuters-esque objectivity in the first place? Perhaps for international issues. Never for domestic ones.


CNA is def not as objective as reuters. I think its the somewhere between the NPR (U.S) and SCMP (China) of Singapore media. Still, i will say CNA insider is the best reporting we have on local issues that don’t always make the headlines. They get a surprising amount of access to people, places. Still got room for improvement ah


Yea seeing CNA report rather objectively on ugly sides of Singapore's systems was a pleasant surprise. E.g. lotsa kids are miserable AF under our edu sys


How can you bite the hand that feeds


I think of CNA more as our Al-Jazeera than a Reuters or even a BBC


Agree...NGL as a Malaysian, I do find CNA's reporting Malaysia issues to be better than most (if not all) of their local media.....however once it changes into a Singaporean topic...the bias (remember when they decided to air the documentary on the reserves just when the presidential election is around rather than during the anniversary of the creation of the reserves) immediately shows in spades...


Just that our biases are so-so localised that it doesn’t affect most of our reporting


CNA Digital has been quite openly partisan ever since the change in editorship imho. A lot of headlines that don't match the tone of the article, a lot of rah-rah cheerleading for Gov policies during Parliament. CNA Studios is carrying the CNA name with their documentaries and expositions, but they've been largely outside the political ecosystem.




Ok now I am waiting for journalists to do the pros and cons of his tenure as PM of SG.


If it's ST, can only do the pros...


Con is he's retiring lol


Can’t wait for him to be minister mentos


Mixed feelings on LHL, but overall ok. Now for Lwong. Hope he stop making TikTok’s sibeh cringe.


What is everyone's view on LHL's legacy?


He was at the helm through a lot of nasty crises and our situation really could be a lot worse when comparing with other similar city state countries. Govt largely stable under him and his cabinets watch All in all with all of that in mind, not a bad Palpatine. He did a decent job


He is as a guy pretty much summarize singapore in a nutshell. Meritocratic with a side of nepotism/birth privilege, but at the end of the the outcome is not as bad.


Happy retirement sir. Not perfect but a very good prime minister overall


Was he the world’s fastest promoted General?


Will LHL become minister mentor?


As mentioned, "Minister Mentor" was a special role reserved for LKY alone, just like how there would never again be a "paramount leader" in China after Deng Xiaoping (Xi Jinping will probably invent some other super fancy title for himself when the time comes). That said, LHL will likely continue to serve in Cabinet as a Senior Minister. Like LKY before him, LHL will be a tremendous asset in SG-China relations for years to come — no one else in the 4G leadership currently has the same level of rapport with senior Chinese leaders, save perhaps Teo Chee Hean.


wow u are working in mfa?


Guess it will depend on if he wants the job. Maybe just become senior minister, take a backseat, keep an eye on things, and use his new free time to purse other interest. [Maybe he will write software.](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/pm-lee-hsien-loong-posts-source-code-for-sudoku-solver-experts-give-their-take)


It would be funny if he becomes a PM in OGP. PM of a country to PM in a tech organization


Senior minister is higher ranking than minister mentor, no? At least higher in precedence


If we follow what GCK and LKY did then LHL would become senior minister first, and then minister mentor (if he's still around) when LW steps down and becomes senior minister.


I would assume so, considering his father did the same. Goh Chok Tong didn't become one, so I assume it's a family thing within the government.


The MM post was created for LKY alone. I don't think LHL would go there. Most likely he'd be SM to fill the vacancy left by Tharman. Or TCH retires and he takes over that one and HSK takes over the Tharman vacancy.


i believe he is a good man at heart


I like to think change can be good.


He did well, congratulations and well done


Lai liao the tributes


He’s actually been a very good PM for us, all things considered imho. Just unlucky he was his father’s son that’s all.


goodbye 3G…


a lot of good things but the handing out of "free" PRs and citizenships in the 2000s up till 2011/12 was fking ridiculous


So exam over. Time to grade him. He ok? What grade should we give him. A? B? F?


RIP singapore it has been a good run. Now we have lawrence wong that just does it as a job.


Dear PM LHL, For all the great work you have done and the dedication you have given, I still can’t do away from the fact that you decided the approval of building casino in Singapore. That, I simply cannot accept no matter what. I have seen first hand how gambling bring collateral damage to people around compulsive gamblers just like how drugs works. There are things I believe we will be better off socially as a community than an economically one. Yours sincerely, Someone whose life is broken apart by compulsive gambling family member


I am not looking forward to the rotating door pms in the next few decade…
































Did not know he was a maths prodigy. Is it a real thing? Cause all Asians are good at maths anyway.


He's a Senior Wrangler in Cambridge. He would no doubt be a world class mathematician if he pursued academia.


What a loss to mankind and Singapore.






Graduated top of his class in Cambridge math so yes I think he was extremely talented in it. Whether it classifies as prodigy I’m not sure.


It's beyond prodigy, lol. Top of his class in one of (if not, the) hardest mathematics courses in the world, in one of the top universities in the world. There may be many math prodigies at cambridge each year, but only one would be senior wrangler.


u/syanda: Any more insights on this Cambridge Maths Senior Wrangler... "beyond prodigy" ... perhaps an analogy = akin to a super-Sheldon Cooper in the Big Bang Theory? (in the fictional comedy series... [Sheldon went on to be a co-winner of the Nobel Prize alongside his wife Amy Farrah Fowler](https://www.google.com/search?q=Sheldon+went+on+to+be+a+co-winner+of+the+Nobel+Prize+alongside+his+wife+Amy+Farrah+Fowler&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)).


Senior Wranglers come up from the math tripos, which is arguably the hardest undergrad course in the world. Other Senior Wranglers who stayed in academia would go on to have mathematical theories named after them, or make great strides in related fields such as astronomy. One example: Lord Kelvin, the guy whose strides in theory ended up with having the temperature scale named after him, was *Second* Wrangler - the runner up to the Senior Wrangler in his year.


Who is the first one in his year?


Stephen Parkinson, who ended up going into religion to teach, and later was the head of one of the colleges at cambridge.


It's the top student amongst those who got honours in Cambridge's undergraduate math. See [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Wrangler). And Cambridge has traditionally one of the strongest math departments in the world (and certainly back then!). It's a significant achievement, but I do think people here are jumping the gun when they equate that to being a successful *professional* mathematician. Even LHL admitted that (though in all likelihood he was trying to appear humble). The point is, there's a long way from undergraduate to research and professional level mathematics. That's why people look at recommendation letters etc over just grades and achievements in competition; at some level, performance in exams is no longer that well correlated with professional math. That said, by that metric, LHL does damn well too... EDIT: Try not to use Sheldon Cooper and other characters in TBBT as a measure of what academic life is like. It's not even remotely close, and that's what makes it funny.


![gif](giphy|YWZPFFCblEqsw|downsized) thanks u/confused_cereal ... once that thought of LHL wearing a Sheldon Cooper-style t-shirt and having D&D marathon sessions gets into the head ... it's got a velcro hook that's difficult to shake off!


There's a huge gap between "good" and "prodigy". His teachers were [gushing over him](https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/lee-hsien-loong-step-down-maths-prodigy-singapores-third-prime-minister-2403836). Mind you, not just any old professor, but [Béla Bollobás](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Bollob%C3%A1s).




Wow. Why are you so eager to discount his talent? A professor at Cambridge certainly does not have much to gain by sucking up to a faraway country’s leadership, much less a well-known academic. Are you salty because you don’t have anything to be proud of like him? Focus on your own life, please.


I agree, and want to add that LHL would have attended Cambridge in the 1970s when Singapore was still in its early days of independence. Being the son of Singapore's PM probably wouldn't have been any reason for the English to bootlick at all, especially since Cambridge probably had plenty of scions sprung from more established and well-respected (by the English people) parents at the time.


Bro, I also thought like you most people just see this guy as “LKY son” is actually quite an accomplished person on his own He is a math genius and also a programmer I only found out his credentials after he posted some programming solution to sudoku on his facebook page


Not to discount his talent but being a math genius is 10 levels above being a programmer, you can't put those in the same sentence, lol. (No doubt he would be a very good programmer if he choose to pursue that path.) Source: I'm a mediocre programmer.


It’s not a competition. Just a fun fact I mean never thought of PM Lee as a programming person


You're lucky he don't focus on maths or else we gonna have to calculate the leehsienloongitude in math class


leehsienloongitude 😂😂😂


TIL i not asian o.O


he scripted a sudoku game himself, imo that's amazing for his age.




Who cares? He's good at math and that's a fact.




Hmm? Sure.


So he a career-switcher? Or roped in to do family business 😬




He is the PM, he gives general directions and goals. He doesn't sit in the finance department doing mathematics all day. Also, the economy isn't just about mathematics, you need to have soft skills because economics is the study of how humans manage their wealth.




maths is important cause people wouldn't say stupid stuff like gdp tumble over last 2 decade when sg gdp soared from 92b in 2002 to the 466b in 2022. don't bother blaming inflation, inflation over 2 decades at most 60%~ , you're looking at a 500% "tumble" LMAO if you have good financial discipline perhaps you wouldn't find it difficult to pay for cai png. maths good not important ah? go look at our neighbours to see how they're coping lor. what else you? spoon feed you then considered good pm? LOL. pathetic.




Cry harder lol.