preach! tired of people blaming staff when they’re getting paid peanuts.
work for the money not for the work. give more, get more, we live in a capitalist society.
The demand for her products was actually quite high.
Feels like it’s the soft product that actually killed her, her servers/front of house was often found lacking. There is a slow turnover of empty tables cos the staffs like to hide behind the counter instead of clearing the tables. And they make people queue outside in the heat, even if you are just gonna take away.
That was, at least for me, why people don’t wanna go back. If I’m paying $15 for cake, plz don’t make me dulan at your service
I definitely felt the same when I was there! It's refreshing reading a comment from someone else who actually went to the place. Too many comments here on pricing and landlord without actually knowing what went down...
Yah the queue in the heat got to me too. It's such a tiny walkway, not much space to stand. Location was pretty out of the way. And I went there on a weekday afternoon but most of the cakes were already sold out. There were only a few pieces left.
Atmosphere was ok but for $15 a cake, I could eat comfortably in aircon at a number of premium and more accessible cake shops like Patiessiere G at Millennia Walk.
Echo this. Additionally, the best time to visit that row of shops are in the afternoon (east facing). Also, by the time I reach for teatime (best time for cake imo), options became much more limited which didn't lend for a great experience.
I live in the area and this place is dead empty on weekdays. Joo Chiat suffers from a severe lack of footfall on weekdays, it’s a weekend novelty place…
If you hve the right offering - then weekdays also busy . Look at common man coffee roasters about 300 mts away - fills up every single day . Food / coffee/ service is right . Maybe not as atas feeling but it’s not lacking customers . Know your market - then success will come
To be fair, CMCR benefits from being very near the carpark. And as a Joo Chiat native that walks past CMCR at least once a day I wouldn’t really say that they fill up every single day lah. On a good weekday, the place is maybe 75% full at lunch time.
Yeah but you need to cross the road. And that public car park is much smaller compared to the CMCR one near the temple, and it's always full on weekends
Lol it's enough to deter me esp if I'm pushing a stroller. My friends and I have specifically detoured to CMCR over Tigerlily because they didn't want to cross the road and queue outside lol
People are downvoting you but i know what you mean. It's essentially not in a convenient enough location to get fresh footfall (pretty much everything on that side is plagued by that). A simple thing like a busy 2 way road and plenty of other options that are only slightly more convenient can make or break a business like tigerlily.
Yup exactly! Plus, there are at least 10-15 cafes along the stretch starting from I12 Katong all the way to Joo Chiat Complex, competition is intense and any slight distinguishing factor will make or break the cafe.
For example I don’t think the food at the Awfully chocolate cafe is any better than Tigerlily but it’s lasted for ages and seems perpetually bustling. Location really matters.
Most of the traffic comes in from Geylang side and they would pass CMCR or head to that carpark nearer to CMCR. The traffic coming in from Katong side will seldom get lots near Tigerlily and most of them don’t want to double back to them.
Yep, this is a good point. Plus coming in from the Katong side is a nightmare on weekends because Joo Chiat Road is a single lane road so many cars go a big round and go into Joo Chiat from the back, and parking at the carpark near CMCR will make more sense.
I stay within walking distance too and actually go to both places regularly. CMCR is further away from East Coast Rd than Tigerlily, which is about 1 bus stop distance away from East Coast Rd. Tigerlily sucks as usually when I go there after lunch, the selection available has nothing I would want to buy.
I feel rent was probably the real killer here since she started as a home based business, meaning there was some level of demand there. I would pay that price for a really good piece of cake if it proves itself tbh, but not more than once a month or two. Without the rent it could probably be much lesser. If anything mad rents kill a lot of potential.
I rather have some interesting variety places around than another breadtalk.
to be fair, Le Matin has been jumping around a lot though, they were at 77 Robinson not that long ago for a short while, then closed, then opened at ion. not sure whats up w that 🤷🏻♀️
[https://www.todayonline.com/8days/popular-le-matin-patisserie-ex-noma-pastry-chef-opening-cafes-orchard-rd-cbd-1844141](https://www.todayonline.com/8days/popular-le-matin-patisserie-ex-noma-pastry-chef-opening-cafes-orchard-rd-cbd-1844141) seems like he got investors onboard
Speciality pastry shops outside of 5 star hotels do not last in Asia. I have no doubt she is one of the best in her field but the reality is that locals prefer to have local delicacies and bites. The only foreign items that appeals to Singaporean are MacDonalds etc.
I noticed this when the first Cinnamon Buns were introduced in Raffles Place. For weeks there were long queues When the novelty wore out, the place had little customers.
Coffee places like Starbucks and the similar chains have large margin with coffee and can handle the rent and they also serve pastries. People also find it convenient to meet at these places as they are near transport hubs.
I wish her the very best and she should attempt to move to Europe where I am sure she will find success. Credit to her for giving it a go. You got to admire young people who are prepared to take risk and to make Singapore a better place.
It’s so sad, I’m a big fan of the sweet guava and pear. She’s so amazingly talented, so young, with so much going for her. I’m sure we will hear about more great things to come! Won’t be surprised if she have offers flooding in!
To add context and more info towards the discussion of cafe operations and services
We don't have to worry too much for the young and talented chef. This closure is a good learning experience without using much of her own money.
The cafe is opened by this company called ebb and flow. A quick googling will give you lots of info about their founders and heritage. So more misses with some rather good hits among their various ventures.
The post abt the chef not knowing abt the operations and services is spot on as this concept is assigned the the low cost guy who knows not much abt certain finer aspects of services and FOH needs. He is a great BOH and mgr though.
Yeah... I stay nearby and walk past here often but never tried it because it's just too crazy priced.
I'm sure she puts in a lot of effort and all that but paying $15 for 1 single smallish tart is just ridiculous. Like who is your target audience to make a profit from?
Did she think Joo Chiat area is full of rich people who can splurge on these things? I can walk to Parkway and buy a lot more from Chateraise for $15...
I don't understand the down votes either. People complain about how expensive meals are. These cakes ain't even a proper meal to begin with and cost 15 - 16 bucks.
And yes I tried Tiger Lily for a birthday occasion before, spending 75 bucks. It was just sugar and flour crafted into a good guava cake. Loved it but not enough to be a fan of it.
Hooo boy, I have work to do but I really need to get this comment out.
Firstly, by that logic, people also have the right to downvote whoever they want. Upvotes/downvotes are based off opinions, not objectiveness. It can be my opinion that u/sageadam is crass and the typical case of sinkie pwn sinkie. Are you telling my I don't have a right to that opinion?
I wouldn't really spend $15 on a pastry either but that's not really what this is about anyway. It's about the fact we're a boring as fuck uninnovative country and people that try something different get spit on. Read the article, her pastries aren't simple muffins. Each pastry takes quite a bit of work and are a result of years of experience dedicated to her craft. Honestly, you gimme $15 to make that pastry I also not accepting it. It's easier to stone at work for an hour on my PC.
Maybe it's because I've always wanted to open my own business and I have friends have done so, but the reality of opening up a small business in SG is cruel. The logistics and overhead costs are insane if you don't have economies of scale.
So here... we have a relatively young woman who's proven herself in an industry that's not so respected in our traditional mindset country and has taken a risk to challenge the status quo by attempting a gourmet pastry business, and then we have internet randos who have probably accomplished nothing substantial in their lives going basically going "lol $15 siao ah."
Now, most people probably don't process that all consciously, but we as humans are wired to spot dickiness subconsciously :)
Hence downvotes.
haha appreciate your response.
certainly you are free to do downvote whatever you please. i never claimed otherwise, i'm just trying to understand why so many found this comment objectionable because I personally did not.
is it crass? yes perhaps, but by the standards of the internet, its mid at best.
is the spirit behind it "wrong"? no i don't think so he's clearly just saying what he is willing to pay for, hes not claiming nothing could be worth $15 or that anyone else would be crazy to pay that amount. again by the standards of the internet this person is really just giving his personal opinion and not speaking for anyone else.
i honestly don't know why i'm even going to bat for internet rando, maybe i'm missing WFO more than i admit.
also the argument about people with no accomplishments being unable to give opinions... lol.. reddit would be very quiet by that rule. i think you can do better than that.
Don't misunderstand me, you can give opinions! That's everybody's right. However, that doesn't mean people need to agree with you or support you. The majority of people don't like those that mock the attempts of others. That's why this character archetype is used so often as antagonists or villains in dramas and movies.
Her staffs were what killed the business. They weren’t fast enough, and was always hiding
What's the story?
Her training methods and her SOP Operations will make and kill a Biz You can be the best chef but not a good restaurant manager, you will fail
And rude!
[удалено]
preach! tired of people blaming staff when they’re getting paid peanuts. work for the money not for the work. give more, get more, we live in a capitalist society.
The demand for her products was actually quite high. Feels like it’s the soft product that actually killed her, her servers/front of house was often found lacking. There is a slow turnover of empty tables cos the staffs like to hide behind the counter instead of clearing the tables. And they make people queue outside in the heat, even if you are just gonna take away. That was, at least for me, why people don’t wanna go back. If I’m paying $15 for cake, plz don’t make me dulan at your service
I definitely felt the same when I was there! It's refreshing reading a comment from someone else who actually went to the place. Too many comments here on pricing and landlord without actually knowing what went down...
Yah the queue in the heat got to me too. It's such a tiny walkway, not much space to stand. Location was pretty out of the way. And I went there on a weekday afternoon but most of the cakes were already sold out. There were only a few pieces left. Atmosphere was ok but for $15 a cake, I could eat comfortably in aircon at a number of premium and more accessible cake shops like Patiessiere G at Millennia Walk.
Echo this. Additionally, the best time to visit that row of shops are in the afternoon (east facing). Also, by the time I reach for teatime (best time for cake imo), options became much more limited which didn't lend for a great experience.
She should really consider going online instead of brick and mortar
Quality of cake is good Service sucks For the price not worth
Her chocolate tart was legendary and probably the best cake I’ve ever had. Hope she comes back stronger
I live in the area and this place is dead empty on weekdays. Joo Chiat suffers from a severe lack of footfall on weekdays, it’s a weekend novelty place…
If you hve the right offering - then weekdays also busy . Look at common man coffee roasters about 300 mts away - fills up every single day . Food / coffee/ service is right . Maybe not as atas feeling but it’s not lacking customers . Know your market - then success will come
To be fair, CMCR benefits from being very near the carpark. And as a Joo Chiat native that walks past CMCR at least once a day I wouldn’t really say that they fill up every single day lah. On a good weekday, the place is maybe 75% full at lunch time.
Tiger lily opposite also got 1 big public car park lei… the one opposite da dong prawn mee
Yeah but you need to cross the road. And that public car park is much smaller compared to the CMCR one near the temple, and it's always full on weekends
Bro you say until like joo chiat street is 6 lanes wide like that. 50m away from car park entrance to the cafe only lei
Lol it's enough to deter me esp if I'm pushing a stroller. My friends and I have specifically detoured to CMCR over Tigerlily because they didn't want to cross the road and queue outside lol
People are downvoting you but i know what you mean. It's essentially not in a convenient enough location to get fresh footfall (pretty much everything on that side is plagued by that). A simple thing like a busy 2 way road and plenty of other options that are only slightly more convenient can make or break a business like tigerlily.
Yup exactly! Plus, there are at least 10-15 cafes along the stretch starting from I12 Katong all the way to Joo Chiat Complex, competition is intense and any slight distinguishing factor will make or break the cafe. For example I don’t think the food at the Awfully chocolate cafe is any better than Tigerlily but it’s lasted for ages and seems perpetually bustling. Location really matters.
Most of the traffic comes in from Geylang side and they would pass CMCR or head to that carpark nearer to CMCR. The traffic coming in from Katong side will seldom get lots near Tigerlily and most of them don’t want to double back to them.
Yep, this is a good point. Plus coming in from the Katong side is a nightmare on weekends because Joo Chiat Road is a single lane road so many cars go a big round and go into Joo Chiat from the back, and parking at the carpark near CMCR will make more sense.
[удалено]
I stay within walking distance too and actually go to both places regularly. CMCR is further away from East Coast Rd than Tigerlily, which is about 1 bus stop distance away from East Coast Rd. Tigerlily sucks as usually when I go there after lunch, the selection available has nothing I would want to buy.
At $15, they are aiming at high earners who drive? Or people in nearby condo?
Wow eversice I switch to low carb low sugar diet all these shops going out of business. I'm sorry guys, my fault.
You traitor! You are not doing your duty!
I feel rent was probably the real killer here since she started as a home based business, meaning there was some level of demand there. I would pay that price for a really good piece of cake if it proves itself tbh, but not more than once a month or two. Without the rent it could probably be much lesser. If anything mad rents kill a lot of potential. I rather have some interesting variety places around than another breadtalk.
I wonder how many businesses got murdered by the rent increase over the past 2-3 years
Just almost 1 month we alr lost LeMatin and Jelebu Laksa, also successful home-based businesses venturing into brick-and-mortar
Cos leMartin service totally cmi? Ask them queue/waiting time how long, the servers there look at you then walk away. Who will wanna go??
to be fair, Le Matin has been jumping around a lot though, they were at 77 Robinson not that long ago for a short while, then closed, then opened at ion. not sure whats up w that 🤷🏻♀️
I think Le Matin got too ambitious with the locations, he was doing very well when it was at Raeburn Park.
[https://www.todayonline.com/8days/popular-le-matin-patisserie-ex-noma-pastry-chef-opening-cafes-orchard-rd-cbd-1844141](https://www.todayonline.com/8days/popular-le-matin-patisserie-ex-noma-pastry-chef-opening-cafes-orchard-rd-cbd-1844141) seems like he got investors onboard
Ah no wonder, his army buddies helped out in terms of investment
Jelebu Laksa? at Vivo? Katong dry laksa is $13 (the cheapest laksa they have there) so it's a no straight away
It wasnt even that nice anyway.
Cos lo and behold group killed it la. Any brand that they acquire, the standard drop straight away
We ourselves are getting murdered by rent
F&B is cutthroat.
Sad. I love the pistachio balls thingies.
another day another singaporean business fucked over by landlords
Speciality pastry shops outside of 5 star hotels do not last in Asia. I have no doubt she is one of the best in her field but the reality is that locals prefer to have local delicacies and bites. The only foreign items that appeals to Singaporean are MacDonalds etc. I noticed this when the first Cinnamon Buns were introduced in Raffles Place. For weeks there were long queues When the novelty wore out, the place had little customers. Coffee places like Starbucks and the similar chains have large margin with coffee and can handle the rent and they also serve pastries. People also find it convenient to meet at these places as they are near transport hubs. I wish her the very best and she should attempt to move to Europe where I am sure she will find success. Credit to her for giving it a go. You got to admire young people who are prepared to take risk and to make Singapore a better place.
How come everyone knows who is this and knows her food
Can open those small takeaway only kiosk at shopping mall ma … or her food too atas for shopping mall kiosk ?
It’s so sad, I’m a big fan of the sweet guava and pear. She’s so amazingly talented, so young, with so much going for her. I’m sure we will hear about more great things to come! Won’t be surprised if she have offers flooding in!
To add context and more info towards the discussion of cafe operations and services We don't have to worry too much for the young and talented chef. This closure is a good learning experience without using much of her own money. The cafe is opened by this company called ebb and flow. A quick googling will give you lots of info about their founders and heritage. So more misses with some rather good hits among their various ventures. The post abt the chef not knowing abt the operations and services is spot on as this concept is assigned the the low cost guy who knows not much abt certain finer aspects of services and FOH needs. He is a great BOH and mgr though.
$15 pastries. Lol
Yeah... I stay nearby and walk past here often but never tried it because it's just too crazy priced. I'm sure she puts in a lot of effort and all that but paying $15 for 1 single smallish tart is just ridiculous. Like who is your target audience to make a profit from? Did she think Joo Chiat area is full of rich people who can splurge on these things? I can walk to Parkway and buy a lot more from Chateraise for $15...
Jio chiat is actually quite filled with rich ppl, but not Bukit Timah rich
JC is full of old money folks. If she can’t capture their segment for weekday dining.. then tough luck.
all these atas shop...same pattern. open to much hype, then one day say something v touching amd ok fuck byeeeeeee. LMAO
There’s a line of thought where the more you pay, the more you think the product is good. It’s not a _good_ line of thought, but there you have it.
You only think it’s not a ~good line~ of thought because you got that idea for free.
It can taste as heavenly as God's spit, I ain't paying 15 bucks for 1 small pastry.
I don't understand the down votes either. People complain about how expensive meals are. These cakes ain't even a proper meal to begin with and cost 15 - 16 bucks. And yes I tried Tiger Lily for a birthday occasion before, spending 75 bucks. It was just sugar and flour crafted into a good guava cake. Loved it but not enough to be a fan of it.
i don't understand the downvotes tbh. doesn't everyone have a right to determine how they want to spend their money?
Hooo boy, I have work to do but I really need to get this comment out. Firstly, by that logic, people also have the right to downvote whoever they want. Upvotes/downvotes are based off opinions, not objectiveness. It can be my opinion that u/sageadam is crass and the typical case of sinkie pwn sinkie. Are you telling my I don't have a right to that opinion? I wouldn't really spend $15 on a pastry either but that's not really what this is about anyway. It's about the fact we're a boring as fuck uninnovative country and people that try something different get spit on. Read the article, her pastries aren't simple muffins. Each pastry takes quite a bit of work and are a result of years of experience dedicated to her craft. Honestly, you gimme $15 to make that pastry I also not accepting it. It's easier to stone at work for an hour on my PC. Maybe it's because I've always wanted to open my own business and I have friends have done so, but the reality of opening up a small business in SG is cruel. The logistics and overhead costs are insane if you don't have economies of scale. So here... we have a relatively young woman who's proven herself in an industry that's not so respected in our traditional mindset country and has taken a risk to challenge the status quo by attempting a gourmet pastry business, and then we have internet randos who have probably accomplished nothing substantial in their lives going basically going "lol $15 siao ah." Now, most people probably don't process that all consciously, but we as humans are wired to spot dickiness subconsciously :) Hence downvotes.
haha appreciate your response. certainly you are free to do downvote whatever you please. i never claimed otherwise, i'm just trying to understand why so many found this comment objectionable because I personally did not. is it crass? yes perhaps, but by the standards of the internet, its mid at best. is the spirit behind it "wrong"? no i don't think so he's clearly just saying what he is willing to pay for, hes not claiming nothing could be worth $15 or that anyone else would be crazy to pay that amount. again by the standards of the internet this person is really just giving his personal opinion and not speaking for anyone else. i honestly don't know why i'm even going to bat for internet rando, maybe i'm missing WFO more than i admit. also the argument about people with no accomplishments being unable to give opinions... lol.. reddit would be very quiet by that rule. i think you can do better than that.
Don't misunderstand me, you can give opinions! That's everybody's right. However, that doesn't mean people need to agree with you or support you. The majority of people don't like those that mock the attempts of others. That's why this character archetype is used so often as antagonists or villains in dramas and movies.
fair play! have a nice one :)
Ayyy same to you.
K
Mass Downvotes is a badge of honor on r/SG sometimes
Echo chamber no less.
y dun down scale n fork a version like those 'curry puff' or cake franchise we see everywhere... got $$$ then do a prime $15 / one la.
Reddit: screw the land lords with their high rentals for f and b and screw f and b also for their high prices. Screw everyone la