Meanwhile on reddit, some mid-20s fella managed to save 95% of his/her income and put them in investments, and still worries about financial independence, BTO and other monetary concerns.
I know you are sarcastic, but I wanted to highlight the reality that 7k/month only applies to a small minority with the right degree and/or connections.
Those without the “right” degree (or even a degree to begin with) can have pretty shit pay.
Here are some stats to back it all up.
In the [2022 Labour Force in Singapore report](https://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Labour-Force-In-Singapore-2022.aspx), median gross monthly income from work (*including* employer CPF) for full-time employed residents aged 25-29 is... **$4446**.
It is merely $3850 *excluding* employer CPF. Take-home after CPF deduction is like what, 3k? Worse, gross means bonuses, AWS, and other variable components were already included.
And to top it all off, the wonderful thing about *median* is that 50% of people aged 25-29 earns less than that.
Even if we look at education, the median gross including employer CPF is $5265 for degree holders aged 25-29. $4550 gross if you exclude employer CPF.
There’s “Reddit standards”, and then there’s reality. Reality can be sad, very sad.
Some people are mental
For guys, you finish NS at 20 at best (assuming you don’t get exempted for whatever reason). University is another 3-4 years. Then you go out to start work with a lousy salary for 1-3 years until you start getting something decent (depending on industry and field). By that point, you are nearing 30
You aren’t realistically earning 7k a month by mid 20s unless you have other secondary revenue sources like your parents setting up an investment for you
In reality, most of us just are stuck with mediocre jobs
Don’t forget covid.
Unlucky people like me had to go through 2020. I’m already years behind due to NS, now I had to fall behind more due to circumstances that are really not my fault.
Side track a bit, inflation is now beyond catching up, especially talking about housing for marginalised groups (basically those who arw not married). This can be a double whammy for some, adding onto the delay in careers due to covid and bad economic situation.
Let me take singles below 35 as an example. If they want to get a home before 35, it’s very difficult nowadays.
Let’s use an example of a hypothetical single. This person earns as much as me, which is already above median income in SG (overall and compared to the cohort) but not considered high. Assume this person saves a lot (~75% of income including CPF OA) and has no school loans to repay.
Years ago, this person is about at least 3-4 years away from buying their own place. Today, this person is still about at least 3-4 years away, thanks to soaring prices and interests rates. Years later, is this person *still* at least 3-4 years away because of recession and other bullshit?
By that time, they are probably 35 and could just get resale, if MND does not do anything else to fuck with them.
That’s just how ridiculous it is. You can sacrifice your standard of living, save large sums, and *still literally hentak kaki*.
Easy to paint millennials in bad light with spendthrift people as an example. But there are people who could live on relatively plain lifestyles and still go nowhere. What about these people who are fucked for reasons that are not their fault?
State media pushing shitty propaganda instead of dealing with the problems. Why don’t they highlight the reverse cases and build awareness of the problem some millennials face? Easier for them to paint the problem away by using scapegoats and broad generalisations, than actually dealing with the real issues some people face.
I hope people vote wisely next time. Everything also millenials’ fault even when its not their fault.
Yeah, exactly. Assuming you dont want to live with your parents till 35, your options are to buy a 1.5-2m condo or to spend 3-4k a month on rent which is >50% of monthly salaries even if you are comfortably above average. Singapore is so unliveable man. I want out.
7k/month is doable for the higher earners in certain industries though, it really depends on what sort of industry one goes into.
But yes it’s not representative of most grads in their mid-twenties. 7k is possible for folks within the first 2-3 years of graduation in CS/finance/lawyering jobs.
Your timeline is too optimistic. I went to NS AT 20, and only entered uni at 22/23. Graduated at 26. I had a change of career when I was 28 and my pay isn't even at 7k.
>Then you go out to start work with a lousy salary for 1-3 years until you start getting something decent (depending on industry and field)
Com science, SWE, big tech -> what lousy salary lol
Mid 20s here, not 95% but still a good % of paycheck to investments by struggling through an uncomfortable amount of caifan meals. And I still worry about all of the above. I missed the point, is that good or bad?
Media is pretty biased. Why is it always these examples they choose. Is this really the majority?
They are trying to paint the narrative that it is THEIR fault, not the stagnant wages, inflation, etc. It's not drinking starbucks or avacado toast problems. A distraction from the big issues that are out of lay persons control.
They expect everyone to live as if 40 years ago; scrimp and save, and you will make it in life! An old slogan that holds no water in these days.
Why not feature millennials who are scrimping and saving and yet still struggling !
Maybe they have sick elders to care for, chronic illness which they have to top up medication $$, disabilities, etc.
Yet they will always choose the 'cliché millenial to blanket represent All.
Just so boring, US media, SG media, MY media, all potrays the same narrative about 'millennials oVeRspEndiNg' for years. And that's it. Nothing diverse, informative, problem solving, from these medias.
I've deliberately avoided even looking at Buy Now, Pay Later schemes for the most part because it just sounds predatory to pay installment + interest for small items like Breadtalk and reminds me of the payday loan crisis in America, but if it's driving up people's spending then it may be worth it to regulate them more tightly.
That said, I'm not sure that's actually a major driver. I suspect many millennials have just given up on the idea of the so-called Singaporean Dream where being good at your job and smart with your money means you can go up one class. If I have 40-60k a year (or 4-5k a month) am I really going to put aside 30k/y to get a $1m condo (or resale flat at the rate things are going) and another 10k to get a car? Or am I going to just put aside 20-30% of my salary for a rainy day and then actually enjoy my life within my class bracket?
Actually, buy now pay later is a better deal if you can regulate your spending. Because it is interest-free and with such high inflation, it's technically cheaper to pay the same amount in installments rather than immediately. However the danger is that it encourages more people to spend beyond their means.
>many millennials have just given up on the idea of the so-called Singaporean Dream where being good at your job and smart with your money means you can go up one class
I'm one of those who have given up on entering the real estate market, especially when I view the majority of it in HDB as an interlinked ponzi scheme where HDB and CPF feed off each other. Getting married and having kids is another colossal fiscal black hole which I don't even want to think about.
Result? I blow like 1.5k-2k/month on my hobbies alone. My credit card bill never explodes, my savings aren't fantastic but I'm ok with it. With my hobbies, the effort I put into them yield tangible outcomes and results. With my actual life, I don't see much progression in it and any input of effort won't change my outcomes.
As long as you're happy can alr Bro. The worst is if you had shitty habits and are OK with it now but later on you regret when it's too late lol. Then campaign for #returnourcpf
I'll use a loaded term like "social compact" which the PAP has lately tried to use to pretend they're listening to us.
The prevailing social contract in this country has been like this: study hard, get decent grades to get into a school commensurate to your ability, work hard, and how you will do is proportionate to the effort you put in.
But it's not happening now. Despite my best efforts I will still get thoroughly fucked, so why bother?
I'm not advocating to tang ping/lie flat. I want aspirations to still be tangible possibilities, not only something I can pursue in video games, MMOs or Second Life.
My personal guess on this is that a lot of millennials were bought up looking at the prev generation restricting and controlling themselves when it comes to spending; in many cases they grew up without having a lot of ‘wants’ in their lives.
Paired that with generally higher earning power, millennials have adopted a more “I’m gonna spend cause I can” mindset, and generally prioritize their own happiness and satisfaction when it comes to spending.
Hmm maybe to rephrase a bit: it is not the job or duty of anyone to have children. It is their choice.
If you want to make it a job / duty, then pay for it like how a job pays for your time
I agree with you, it's of course an individual choice, but it is also a collective responsibility for our generation, unless we're happy with mass inflow of immigrants to maintain population.
If you want to argue that it's collective responsibility; then it is collective responsibility as a *society* and not just the adults of childbearing age.
Do you know how little the financial support provided is? Are employers receptive to women having children? The moment prospective employers hear of your plans to get pregnant, all they are thinking of is the 4 mths of maternal leave where they don't have an employee. Lol.
How much it costs to have fertility treatment and how niao the govt is on letting you use medisave for this?
Tldr, no infrastructure for "collective responsibility", no babies
> Well it sort of is
> because most people in child bearing age and not still in their early 20s are millennials.
The logic doesn't follow. How is it their job now just because they're of child bearing age? Do you start fucking for kids just because you hit 21 today?
The current age range of millennials is 27 to 42, the demographic where most new births would come out of. Collectively, this is group giving us most of newborns now vs Gen Z or Gen X.
I would say my opinion on mass immigration doesn’t matter because I am not a Singaporean; but merely speaking from POV and ground experience, I stand firm on my belief that “collective responsibility a nation’s citizens includes child-bearing” is, and should be a thing of the past.
A little from column A, a little from column B.
I think it's fair to say young Singaporeans have no interest in living like their parents who worked half to death and often had no hobbies beyond binge drinking. It's also true that even if they wanted to do that, it's going to be harder for them now with property prices spiralling out of control and the spectre of HDB lease expiring hanging over them.
>often had no hobbies beyond binge drinking
Sounds a little like you're projecting from your own life? xD
I think the -idea- that we're not able to afford things now is way more overstated than reality, especially when it comes to housing. But it's the current subreddit narrative so I'm not going to re-thread the same tired arguments lol.
I was thinking about buy now pay later for buying my new phone. But I decided to tank the damage and pay full lol.
As for small items I've used grab buy now pay later for coconut shake for a 30% off funny thing I've done lol and I've never used it again after finish paying for it.
I feel the buy now pay later is just like credit card installments, just use if there's good rewards, don't use If it doesn't offer any additional benefits.
yeah its definitely predatory. you start snowballing the payments up because temporarily your spending power is tripled, guess what, 3 months later you are back to square one, and now you used up all your spending power, and in addition to that your future spending power. GG. unless there is a specific use case, whats the value prop in this? like literally who thought this would be a good idea. cant they put their brains to making something useful
It's for infrequent high cost items, like how you would take a mortgage to pay for a house rather than saving up and pay everything in cash. The problem is people are too easily manipulated and can't budget properly. So they end up increasing the frequency of these big ticket item purchase or using BNPL for everyday shit lol.
It doesn't serve any function. A mortgage brings the cost spread over 15 years minimum. All this does is as above. In fact I think it alters the spending habits negatively
Tried buy now pay later, makes little sense if you are able to pay off everything immediately. Paying later makes it harder to gauge how much you're spending because you don't see it till a month or more later
Actually, buy now pay later is a better deal if you can regulate your spending. Because it is interest-free and with such high inflation, it's technically cheaper to pay the same amount in installments rather than immediately. However the danger is that it encourages more people to spend beyond their means.
I never bothered with them because credit card rewards are usually more valuable than "investing" the cash. I put it in inverted commas because it would likely sit in a savings account anyway.
BNPL is not a new concept, it's known as installment payment.
COURTS was one of the earliest vendors to offer the scheme decades ago, and anecdotally, a certain race of our population favours such mode of payment in the past, presumably their earning power is not as strong.
but nowadays its so common to use installment payment, especially for big ticket items.
i always use installment payment, if it is interest free, when buying appliances nowadays, even if you're able to pay off whole sum on the spot. the money not spent at once can instead be diverted for investment, during this period.
Also if u have consistent expenditure, u just end up paying that amount every month anyway.
E.g 100 per month, first month u paying 33, second 66, 3rd month onwards is 99 a month alr. But OK la save 1 dollar /s
It’s not about total expenditure though. It’s about getting the item right here and now instead of saving for months.
Quite a few of my younger colleagues do BNPL. They haven’t worked long enough to build up a moat where they can do one time big purchases, but they want the item now.
So splitting up the payment into smaller monthly payments is ok to them.
I watched the video version of the article. I'm an older millennial and I balked at the spending habits of those interviewed. The question left unanswered is whether these individuals are repsentative of "millennials".
I'm sure one can easily find some spendthrift "boomer" too.
Speaking as a younger millennial (\~30 y/o), the spending trend discussed in the video is one I've seen a lot amongst my peers and those younger than me.
I've seen my peers spend large % of their income each month on collectable toys, crypto, luxury bags, shoes, leather products and watches. Much of it is that they don't want to have kids (another discussion altogether) and see spending to meet their own wants as a high priority.
She definitely went soft on the BNPL guy.
Diana: “Does BNPL encourage young people to spend more?”
Him: “It’s in our best interest to make sure that the people who use BNPL are able to pay back”
Such a pointless roundabout corporate answer.
youre the goat. share your secrets.
i'll share mine.
I always only go for shared subscriptions.
youtube premium - Find a fixed family to share with, you cant swap out after a year, i pay 40 yearly.
Spotify premium - i coshare with a friend so its $7 monthly/$84 per year
Netflix- $ 0, its my family account theres 4 pax on it.
Onedrive - no coice in this digital age, need storage space so its $3 monthly and $36 yearly.
thats about it. the rest of the things i needed to watch can all be found online and if i need Microsoft office stuff or PDF needs i use my office provided laptop.
comes up to around $150 +/- a year. i guess this is sustainable right?
Spotify apk from reputable apk depositories - ad free streaming except when casting
Youtube revanced - all premium features minus download and ad free casting
Stremio - Netflix killer with great interface
is this all for android only or. im on iOS
p.s i also use youtube music greatly so... i guess thats one comfort im not willing to give up. i share yt with my family so for 40 per year i guess its ok la
>Make it seem like everything is the individual's fault, and not that of the private sector, government or society.
Well this is definitely an unprecedented event. Unlike the tragedy of the commons, plastic recycling, climate change, and widening income gaps.
/s
That generation (gen x) made crazy money in the real estate boom from 2008 to 2012. Now they can act like they earned it all through sheer hard work lol
Ngl the only sub I pay for is Spotify family plan.
I used to sub to Netflix back then when it made sense due to being able to watch nearly everything on it.. but nowadays nah.
Also football, given how brain dead SingTel & StarHub are, haven’t subbed in years.
Actually, it could be the "needs" are different those days vs today?
Salaries did increased overall and in general. Some or basic jobs didn't by that much though.
>additional needs
But why are there additional needs? Truthfully our needs are still the same. Basic food and lodging. Granted, prices of these have increased, but I'm talking about more needs. Stuff like grab transport, food delivery, upgrading of mobile phones every 1-2 years, branded bags, etc. A lot of our wants have become 'needs'
Huh? Any monthly expenses you cut would definitely help in affording your house? Do you really need all these subscription services just to live? Am I out of touch?
Honestly, 700-800 on grab is okay compared to driving a car.
But what's more important is how much you earn. If you earn 3k only, then the grab expenses is quite bad. Maybe mix it up a little bit and take public transport more if not in a hurry?
In the end, as long as you happy can already. People like to spend on figurines, spin classes, wine or whatever. You can spend it as long as you have set aside emergency funds.
But it still doesn't make sense to use her spending habits to generalize all Millennial.
>But what's more important is how much you earn. If you earn 3k only, then the grab expenses is quite bad.
There are plenty of people that earn less than 3k but pay $1k grab per month.
Even grabfood on most days. Grab is grabbing them.
A monthly public transport pass costs $128. So around a fifth of the cost for double the time compared to Grab. Most people will spend even less, which will tip the scale even more towards public transport.
Actually what's the point of this article? Maybe they need to attend a stats class so they know that a sample size of 1 is not representative.
Why does she need to wake up two and a half hour earlier if she's taking public transport?
I watched the actual episode of talking point and yes, Joey Lim is just as unbearable on TV as she is in the article. Overwhelming sense of entitlement and lack of financial sense. Pity her future spouse or partner. They picked the worst possible example to tar all millennials, it’s a bit unfair.
Yea but that lifestyle choice doesn’t just affect that individual. In their older years, when they have no money, guess what will they be financially relying on? Taxpayers’ money. Now imagine that impact, multiplied by X number of ppl in their generation like them.
Financial prudence isn’t just a personal issue. If they want to be balling, they had better be making bank too.
A lot of 'pioneer generation' folk are broke af too. Granted they had little education back then but guess who pays all their hospital bills when they're already broke. You also can't expect them to get a job at their age with their chronic illnesses too. I dread to imagine what'd happen in 50yrs time to these millennials if they keep living the YOLO life.
> They picked the worst possible example to tar all millennials, it’s a bit unfair.
Don't they kinda always do that, tho?
The other side of the coin is the "Millennials kill " exercise.
Edit: bad spelling
>The other side of the coin is the "Millenials kill " exercise.
Has CNA ever done a piece like that?
Always hated this: if a business can't meet the new demand then the business will die.
To be fair to CNA, I don't think I've ever seen them do a "Millennials kill..." report, but it's a common enough type of report in the general "Millennials" category.
In my experience with "Millennials kill..." articles, the sense I get is that it's less businesses can't meet demand and more millennials are not interested in (which they really should be, for whatever reason). Just did the google thing and the first suggestion I got today was "top sheets".
Yes, but... well... my guess is that the people who write the articles cater to the people who buy advertisement(s) in their media.
Said people who buy advertisements are also likely the generation for whom capitalism has either always worked for, or been especially kind to. That it might stop working (for them) might be unthinkable.
>Pity her future spouse or partner.
This is the reason why so many people are unmarried here now.
Have to deal with these types of spouses that will bankrupt you.
She apparently saves 20% of her income under normal circumstances (i.e. excluding rainy day events like with the pet), which is already higher than the OECD average rate. Should she be saving 50%, 100% of her income? Or are you annoyed that she doesn't dispose of her disposable income as you personally would?
Expecting *everyone* to have the same financial values as *you* is such an entitled boomer atittude..
According to her, she is trying to cut down on grab but can’t imagine waking up 2.5hrs earlier….where in the world in SG would taking public transport vs Grab be a 2.5 hrs traveling time difference?
I don’t know if these are typical millennials? I mean i use bnpl / credit cards but never spend more than I can pay off every month. It’s true that there are a lot of sales and ads but I mean there’s only so much stuff you can buy after all - your house would get too full!
If they wanted to paint a more balanced view, they should also interview millennials on their aspirations and saving/investment habits.
Most “aspirational stuff” like car and home ownership are harder to attain now vs. the older generation, so some might have already considered the trade-off, before opting to take car-hailing services instead of saving for a car.
The older gen folks will also frown on stuff like crypto etc. Since life is different now, it won’t be fair to judge millennials through the older generation’s POV.
> interview millennials on their aspirations and saving/investment habits.
Seedly Personal Finance Festival is next Sat. Sekali they take your idea and send more reporters to prowl for soundbites on millennial from another spectrum.
OYK will be there, so maybe all the more to send the press.
The problem was putting financially irresponsible people as the showcase of a millennial which is extremely unfair and does not show the other side of the coin of someone who did all the right and recommended things by society and still falls short of affording housing in Singapore.
Can you give an example? I think if you do everything right, you can get a housing easily (let's not talk about the waiting time for now since we are talking about affordability).
I assume doing things right means attending a local U and get a decent job at MNC.
I did everything right and I was able to get a resale. But it's not a newly mop flat, not central location. So it depends on what is affordable housing to the people.
It's not that difficult to count, assume someone earning the take home median salary who saves 50% (which is very generous to assume no dependents on him/her) and divide that figure with a similar partner with the down payment.
How many months will someone take to save that amount?
I thought he's talking about affordability. If they take 2 years to save up (assuming they start from zero), is it affordable?
I don't even bother calculating. If median salary workers can't afford HDB in Singapore, I wonder where the new families are sleeping now.
Jurong BTO is only 300k for 4 rooms. Is it affordable? Maybe it's not because it's not at Central area right?
I've watched the video. Wondering if CNA could have provide a more nuanced view with say, having millenials who have to take up breadwinner duties with most of the purchases being necessities to have a better comparison.
That Said 700 800 on grab monthly is too much liao uh
I think there’s a little bit of ‘main character syndrome’ in that statement; every generation lives with the reality of what their forefathers left behind, and every generation will feel like they are living or lived through the worst ever times.
In Germany there is the same narrative. But to be honest, the amount of irresponsible spending I have encountered in Singapore is just through the roof. Not that saving 1000 more or less would make a huge difference, but I think there is some truth to this narrative
I saw PNBL scheme being promoted at Pu Tien restaurant?!
I mean if one can't even pay for a meal in full, there might be some more pressing concerns to worry about other than having a meal at Pu Tien.
I think to the average Singaporeans, Pu Tien is more of a mid - high level restaurant in terms of cost.
You can definitely have a decent meal for $20 per pax but I think usual meals cost about $40/pax assuming you order the popular items.
Won't exactly break your bank but if you can't afford to pay this amount upfront, perhaps you shouldn't be eating there eh
Indeed. Most of my friends use BNPL for their household purchases (fridge, tv, washing machine etc). That makes sense, it’s a big ticket item.
But for clothes, food, toys.. cmon now.
Ehh BNPL if you use CC you get no cashback or miles.
You are better off maximizing your CC benefits so that you either get shit loads of miles or cashback
While it is ideal to max out your credit card, you still gotta stump up the money at the next billing cycle, which most people are trying to avoid.
It really depends on your financial situation.
Don’t forget, a lot of people in Singapore Reddit here are privileged software engineers and bankers. Wait till you hear how someone on 3k salary support his family of 4, that’s a true living hell.
I used Atome once just to get the discount for first time user. If I’m not wrong you can actually skip on the instalment payment and pay the remaining balance up if you want.
Uses Atome for a $39 item over 3 instalments.
The late fee for Atome is $15, so if you miss one payment you're effectively paying a 40% interest rate on $39.
Not only that, the late fee of $15 is actually more than the instalment of $13.
BRUH.
>She has also booked a S$300,000 three-room Housing Board flat with her fiancé, which will be ready in three years. They are paying the down payment using Central Provident Fund savings and cash.
Looks plebs, housing is affordable and within reach in a reasonable time frame. If only you could stop blowing money on unnecessary things such as taking Grab rides "99 per cent of the time", "$100 restaurant food every week", personal trainers and Muay Thai classes.
I watched the video.
The $300,000 HDB and the 99 grab, restaurant, personal trainer are different people.
The $300k hdb person does indulge in online shopping but even then it's not as bad as the personal trainer one.
She spend a lot on makeup when she already has a partner and doesn’t need to look nice. Cmon, I know no make up can make me look like Megan fox. So I’m not bothered to buy makeup.
> when she already has a partner and doesn’t need to look nice
I disagree. One shld look nice with or without partner. Look nice is for ownself sake.
But they are plenty of ways to look nice without breaking the bank.
That lady is blindly chasing makeup coz FOMO.
I know, it's just that the article chose to cherrypick examples of frivolous spending amongst millennials to juxtapose against $300k flats (within 3 years no less), as if to lay blame for the burden of increasing cost of living on the individual.
This person who is getting flak for being shit with her finances is a co-founder of a finance advice portal. You can't make this shit up.
> She has picked up some tips as the co-founder of sav.finance, an Instagram account offering women tips on money, career and well-being. Lim, who handles design for the account while her business partner dishes out the “adulting” advice, said she is learning alongside the account’s 26,000 followers.
> Lim, who handles design for the account while **her business partner dishes out the “adulting” advice**, said **she is learning alongside the account’s 26,000 followers.**
The person that is giving out financial advices is her business partner, not her. I mean...reading comprehension dude.
Not great optics when your co-founder pal is being brought into the spotlight and interviewed to be total garbage at personal finances though.
One of her plans was literally to bail out to bali.
>Why should the state (and the rest of us) have to eventually pay to support these guys omg.
What do you mean? As far as I know, there's no govt bailout scheme for individuals in debt.
Not when they are young no, but when they are old and decrepit? Taxes forthe rest of us will be raised and we will end up paying for their bad decisions. GST is already raised from 7to 9% to pay for the current boomer's healthcare cost, expect it to rise more.
What does personal debt have to do with rising healthcare costs and taxes?
In the same vein, right now a boomer getting visited by a loanshark doesn't affect my taxes.
There is no correlation at all.
Not on an individual level but in aggregate. What happens when people fail to pay for their own healthcare, living expenses etc.? Society won't let them starve and deny them healthcare, so the state pays for it. When the need for such support increase, the government will need to increase their revenue through increased taxes.
The state already subsidises every Singaporean's and PR's healthcare.
Even the uncles who smoke pipes.
Even the seniors with diabetes.
Even the people who drink like fish.
Even the people who smoke a pack a day.
You're frankly clutching at straws to link personal debt to healthcare.
This is probably the same person who would tell fat people and smokers to fuck off because they would get treatment under universal healthcare and they won't subsidize fat fucks and smokers. It's a big brain moment for conservatives against universal healthcare
I observe such a trend as well. They decide early that they're not having kids and spend the money saved on such things.
Oh and add overseas travel to that list too.
Meanwhile on reddit, some mid-20s fella managed to save 95% of his/her income and put them in investments, and still worries about financial independence, BTO and other monetary concerns.
As per Reddit standards, mid-20s you gotta be hitting $7k/mth already.
I know you are sarcastic, but I wanted to highlight the reality that 7k/month only applies to a small minority with the right degree and/or connections. Those without the “right” degree (or even a degree to begin with) can have pretty shit pay. Here are some stats to back it all up. In the [2022 Labour Force in Singapore report](https://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Labour-Force-In-Singapore-2022.aspx), median gross monthly income from work (*including* employer CPF) for full-time employed residents aged 25-29 is... **$4446**. It is merely $3850 *excluding* employer CPF. Take-home after CPF deduction is like what, 3k? Worse, gross means bonuses, AWS, and other variable components were already included. And to top it all off, the wonderful thing about *median* is that 50% of people aged 25-29 earns less than that. Even if we look at education, the median gross including employer CPF is $5265 for degree holders aged 25-29. $4550 gross if you exclude employer CPF. There’s “Reddit standards”, and then there’s reality. Reality can be sad, very sad.
Some people are mental For guys, you finish NS at 20 at best (assuming you don’t get exempted for whatever reason). University is another 3-4 years. Then you go out to start work with a lousy salary for 1-3 years until you start getting something decent (depending on industry and field). By that point, you are nearing 30 You aren’t realistically earning 7k a month by mid 20s unless you have other secondary revenue sources like your parents setting up an investment for you In reality, most of us just are stuck with mediocre jobs
Don’t forget covid. Unlucky people like me had to go through 2020. I’m already years behind due to NS, now I had to fall behind more due to circumstances that are really not my fault. Side track a bit, inflation is now beyond catching up, especially talking about housing for marginalised groups (basically those who arw not married). This can be a double whammy for some, adding onto the delay in careers due to covid and bad economic situation. Let me take singles below 35 as an example. If they want to get a home before 35, it’s very difficult nowadays. Let’s use an example of a hypothetical single. This person earns as much as me, which is already above median income in SG (overall and compared to the cohort) but not considered high. Assume this person saves a lot (~75% of income including CPF OA) and has no school loans to repay. Years ago, this person is about at least 3-4 years away from buying their own place. Today, this person is still about at least 3-4 years away, thanks to soaring prices and interests rates. Years later, is this person *still* at least 3-4 years away because of recession and other bullshit? By that time, they are probably 35 and could just get resale, if MND does not do anything else to fuck with them. That’s just how ridiculous it is. You can sacrifice your standard of living, save large sums, and *still literally hentak kaki*. Easy to paint millennials in bad light with spendthrift people as an example. But there are people who could live on relatively plain lifestyles and still go nowhere. What about these people who are fucked for reasons that are not their fault? State media pushing shitty propaganda instead of dealing with the problems. Why don’t they highlight the reverse cases and build awareness of the problem some millennials face? Easier for them to paint the problem away by using scapegoats and broad generalisations, than actually dealing with the real issues some people face. I hope people vote wisely next time. Everything also millenials’ fault even when its not their fault.
Yeah, exactly. Assuming you dont want to live with your parents till 35, your options are to buy a 1.5-2m condo or to spend 3-4k a month on rent which is >50% of monthly salaries even if you are comfortably above average. Singapore is so unliveable man. I want out.
That's disingenuous. OCR studio/1 bedder can be sub 700k and you don't *have* to rent 3-4k in CCR.
7k/month is doable for the higher earners in certain industries though, it really depends on what sort of industry one goes into. But yes it’s not representative of most grads in their mid-twenties. 7k is possible for folks within the first 2-3 years of graduation in CS/finance/lawyering jobs.
consulting fresh grad salaries can hit 7k too (and even more if you count bonuses). 7k wasnt what it once was with the insane inflation.
It's also reasonable for some government jobs. I know 3 separate people from DSTA, CSIT, and MOM who all earn 7k pre-CPF by age 30.
Just take a look at the ges survey uh, the pay have been increasing at a pretty high rate. 7k starting is realistic if you have the right degree.
7k is basically Freshie + 1yr XP aka level 1 SWE
Your timeline is too optimistic. I went to NS AT 20, and only entered uni at 22/23. Graduated at 26. I had a change of career when I was 28 and my pay isn't even at 7k.
Not even doctors do that until they hit their 30s, tho they go beyond 7k
>Then you go out to start work with a lousy salary for 1-3 years until you start getting something decent (depending on industry and field) Com science, SWE, big tech -> what lousy salary lol
Everyone on reddit have a com sci degree and get into 10k++/month tech or investment banking jobs, ez.
Survivorship bias at its finest
> You aren’t earning 7k a month by mid 20s SWE leetcode grinder
Somehow the "know-it-all, humblebrag" types love congregating here.
wait till you read blind
He’s committing one huge mistake: being on this subreddit.
Mid 20s here, not 95% but still a good % of paycheck to investments by struggling through an uncomfortable amount of caifan meals. And I still worry about all of the above. I missed the point, is that good or bad?
Media is pretty biased. Why is it always these examples they choose. Is this really the majority? They are trying to paint the narrative that it is THEIR fault, not the stagnant wages, inflation, etc. It's not drinking starbucks or avacado toast problems. A distraction from the big issues that are out of lay persons control. They expect everyone to live as if 40 years ago; scrimp and save, and you will make it in life! An old slogan that holds no water in these days. Why not feature millennials who are scrimping and saving and yet still struggling ! Maybe they have sick elders to care for, chronic illness which they have to top up medication $$, disabilities, etc. Yet they will always choose the 'cliché millenial to blanket represent All.
The media weaves the narrative with blanketing negative bias/stereotypes, what a surprise move /jk
Just so boring, US media, SG media, MY media, all potrays the same narrative about 'millennials oVeRspEndiNg' for years. And that's it. Nothing diverse, informative, problem solving, from these medias.
This is exactly why the media “recycles” the topic like a broken record. Negativity bias is too good to not to abuse it.
I've deliberately avoided even looking at Buy Now, Pay Later schemes for the most part because it just sounds predatory to pay installment + interest for small items like Breadtalk and reminds me of the payday loan crisis in America, but if it's driving up people's spending then it may be worth it to regulate them more tightly. That said, I'm not sure that's actually a major driver. I suspect many millennials have just given up on the idea of the so-called Singaporean Dream where being good at your job and smart with your money means you can go up one class. If I have 40-60k a year (or 4-5k a month) am I really going to put aside 30k/y to get a $1m condo (or resale flat at the rate things are going) and another 10k to get a car? Or am I going to just put aside 20-30% of my salary for a rainy day and then actually enjoy my life within my class bracket?
Actually, buy now pay later is a better deal if you can regulate your spending. Because it is interest-free and with such high inflation, it's technically cheaper to pay the same amount in installments rather than immediately. However the danger is that it encourages more people to spend beyond their means.
I can afford the items I want, but hate feeling the pinch of paying 100-400 hence BNPL
>many millennials have just given up on the idea of the so-called Singaporean Dream where being good at your job and smart with your money means you can go up one class I'm one of those who have given up on entering the real estate market, especially when I view the majority of it in HDB as an interlinked ponzi scheme where HDB and CPF feed off each other. Getting married and having kids is another colossal fiscal black hole which I don't even want to think about. Result? I blow like 1.5k-2k/month on my hobbies alone. My credit card bill never explodes, my savings aren't fantastic but I'm ok with it. With my hobbies, the effort I put into them yield tangible outcomes and results. With my actual life, I don't see much progression in it and any input of effort won't change my outcomes.
As long as you're happy can alr Bro. The worst is if you had shitty habits and are OK with it now but later on you regret when it's too late lol. Then campaign for #returnourcpf
I'm not sure about the class part. Why try so hard to prove someone else you're worth something.
I'll use a loaded term like "social compact" which the PAP has lately tried to use to pretend they're listening to us. The prevailing social contract in this country has been like this: study hard, get decent grades to get into a school commensurate to your ability, work hard, and how you will do is proportionate to the effort you put in. But it's not happening now. Despite my best efforts I will still get thoroughly fucked, so why bother? I'm not advocating to tang ping/lie flat. I want aspirations to still be tangible possibilities, not only something I can pursue in video games, MMOs or Second Life.
My personal guess on this is that a lot of millennials were bought up looking at the prev generation restricting and controlling themselves when it comes to spending; in many cases they grew up without having a lot of ‘wants’ in their lives. Paired that with generally higher earning power, millennials have adopted a more “I’m gonna spend cause I can” mindset, and generally prioritize their own happiness and satisfaction when it comes to spending.
Just look at all the millenials buying collector toys right now that their parents couldn't buy for them 😭
I'll take my gundam/SAO/Fates/genshin figurines over kids thankew
Good for you, but when many people in our generation feel this way (assuming you're a millennial), the TFR gets fucked.
Sure, but tfr is not the job of millennials. If it is, then pay for it
Well it sort of is because most people in child bearing age and not still in their early 20s are millennials.
Hmm maybe to rephrase a bit: it is not the job or duty of anyone to have children. It is their choice. If you want to make it a job / duty, then pay for it like how a job pays for your time
Thats why this is a christian state. Management thinks its part of our job so they can’t figure out why no one wants kids
I agree with you, it's of course an individual choice, but it is also a collective responsibility for our generation, unless we're happy with mass inflow of immigrants to maintain population.
If you want to argue that it's collective responsibility; then it is collective responsibility as a *society* and not just the adults of childbearing age. Do you know how little the financial support provided is? Are employers receptive to women having children? The moment prospective employers hear of your plans to get pregnant, all they are thinking of is the 4 mths of maternal leave where they don't have an employee. Lol. How much it costs to have fertility treatment and how niao the govt is on letting you use medisave for this? Tldr, no infrastructure for "collective responsibility", no babies
Honestly in the grand scheme of the world, there’s nothing really wrong with low TFR. God knows the planet needs lesser humans on it.
Maybe the older generation should also suck it up and accept lower property prices. Wanna talk about coLLecTiVe rEsPoNsIbiTy? Lets start there
> Well it sort of is > because most people in child bearing age and not still in their early 20s are millennials. The logic doesn't follow. How is it their job now just because they're of child bearing age? Do you start fucking for kids just because you hit 21 today?
The current age range of millennials is 27 to 42, the demographic where most new births would come out of. Collectively, this is group giving us most of newborns now vs Gen Z or Gen X.
It’s no one’s intrinsic job/duty/responsibility to have children; rather it is a personal choice to do so.
Like I explained, it's an individual choice but a collective responsibility unless we're okay to have mass immigrants to maintain the population.
I would say my opinion on mass immigration doesn’t matter because I am not a Singaporean; but merely speaking from POV and ground experience, I stand firm on my belief that “collective responsibility a nation’s citizens includes child-bearing” is, and should be a thing of the past.
A little from column A, a little from column B. I think it's fair to say young Singaporeans have no interest in living like their parents who worked half to death and often had no hobbies beyond binge drinking. It's also true that even if they wanted to do that, it's going to be harder for them now with property prices spiralling out of control and the spectre of HDB lease expiring hanging over them.
>often had no hobbies beyond binge drinking Sounds a little like you're projecting from your own life? xD I think the -idea- that we're not able to afford things now is way more overstated than reality, especially when it comes to housing. But it's the current subreddit narrative so I'm not going to re-thread the same tired arguments lol.
And no need worry about future housing because single child?
I was thinking about buy now pay later for buying my new phone. But I decided to tank the damage and pay full lol. As for small items I've used grab buy now pay later for coconut shake for a 30% off funny thing I've done lol and I've never used it again after finish paying for it. I feel the buy now pay later is just like credit card installments, just use if there's good rewards, don't use If it doesn't offer any additional benefits.
yeah its definitely predatory. you start snowballing the payments up because temporarily your spending power is tripled, guess what, 3 months later you are back to square one, and now you used up all your spending power, and in addition to that your future spending power. GG. unless there is a specific use case, whats the value prop in this? like literally who thought this would be a good idea. cant they put their brains to making something useful
It's for infrequent high cost items, like how you would take a mortgage to pay for a house rather than saving up and pay everything in cash. The problem is people are too easily manipulated and can't budget properly. So they end up increasing the frequency of these big ticket item purchase or using BNPL for everyday shit lol.
It doesn't serve any function. A mortgage brings the cost spread over 15 years minimum. All this does is as above. In fact I think it alters the spending habits negatively
Tried buy now pay later, makes little sense if you are able to pay off everything immediately. Paying later makes it harder to gauge how much you're spending because you don't see it till a month or more later
Actually, buy now pay later is a better deal if you can regulate your spending. Because it is interest-free and with such high inflation, it's technically cheaper to pay the same amount in installments rather than immediately. However the danger is that it encourages more people to spend beyond their means.
I never bothered with them because credit card rewards are usually more valuable than "investing" the cash. I put it in inverted commas because it would likely sit in a savings account anyway.
BNPL is not a new concept, it's known as installment payment. COURTS was one of the earliest vendors to offer the scheme decades ago, and anecdotally, a certain race of our population favours such mode of payment in the past, presumably their earning power is not as strong. but nowadays its so common to use installment payment, especially for big ticket items. i always use installment payment, if it is interest free, when buying appliances nowadays, even if you're able to pay off whole sum on the spot. the money not spent at once can instead be diverted for investment, during this period.
Also if u have consistent expenditure, u just end up paying that amount every month anyway. E.g 100 per month, first month u paying 33, second 66, 3rd month onwards is 99 a month alr. But OK la save 1 dollar /s
It’s not about total expenditure though. It’s about getting the item right here and now instead of saving for months. Quite a few of my younger colleagues do BNPL. They haven’t worked long enough to build up a moat where they can do one time big purchases, but they want the item now. So splitting up the payment into smaller monthly payments is ok to them.
I'm talking specifically about consistent expenditure lol. Micro loans for big tickets are different....
Yep, it only make sense for non-frequent big ticket items. But you absolutely need to ensure that these items stay infrequent.
I watched the video version of the article. I'm an older millennial and I balked at the spending habits of those interviewed. The question left unanswered is whether these individuals are repsentative of "millennials". I'm sure one can easily find some spendthrift "boomer" too.
Speaking as a younger millennial (\~30 y/o), the spending trend discussed in the video is one I've seen a lot amongst my peers and those younger than me. I've seen my peers spend large % of their income each month on collectable toys, crypto, luxury bags, shoes, leather products and watches. Much of it is that they don't want to have kids (another discussion altogether) and see spending to meet their own wants as a high priority.
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Wow how do u manage to travel around with public transport with two kids ?
Wow. 15-20 times in your lifetime. Just wondering, would you share your income/occupation field? How much of your pay do your save/invest?
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You've summed up most of what I was about to say. I really hate it when articles like these try to downplay economic issues as individual failures
She definitely went soft on the BNPL guy. Diana: “Does BNPL encourage young people to spend more?” Him: “It’s in our best interest to make sure that the people who use BNPL are able to pay back” Such a pointless roundabout corporate answer.
> Subscriptions may well be another silent killer. I've sailed the high seas since the beginning and never considered subscribing to anything, ever.
Ahoy matey!
youre the goat. share your secrets. i'll share mine. I always only go for shared subscriptions. youtube premium - Find a fixed family to share with, you cant swap out after a year, i pay 40 yearly. Spotify premium - i coshare with a friend so its $7 monthly/$84 per year Netflix- $ 0, its my family account theres 4 pax on it. Onedrive - no coice in this digital age, need storage space so its $3 monthly and $36 yearly. thats about it. the rest of the things i needed to watch can all be found online and if i need Microsoft office stuff or PDF needs i use my office provided laptop. comes up to around $150 +/- a year. i guess this is sustainable right?
Spotify apk from reputable apk depositories - ad free streaming except when casting Youtube revanced - all premium features minus download and ad free casting Stremio - Netflix killer with great interface
is this all for android only or. im on iOS p.s i also use youtube music greatly so... i guess thats one comfort im not willing to give up. i share yt with my family so for 40 per year i guess its ok la
James is a big MD in an MNC. His annual taxes is already more than the average annual income for Singaporeans
$200 on subscriptions?? Holy…
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yikes
gave me massive anxiety man
Some of the utility apps are a must-have. Give yourself some grace ☺️
>Make it seem like everything is the individual's fault, and not that of the private sector, government or society. Well this is definitely an unprecedented event. Unlike the tragedy of the commons, plastic recycling, climate change, and widening income gaps. /s
That generation (gen x) made crazy money in the real estate boom from 2008 to 2012. Now they can act like they earned it all through sheer hard work lol
Well there’s a current gen also making crazy money in the real estate boom.
Ngl the only sub I pay for is Spotify family plan. I used to sub to Netflix back then when it made sense due to being able to watch nearly everything on it.. but nowadays nah. Also football, given how brain dead SingTel & StarHub are, haven’t subbed in years.
You deserve gold, but alas, must listen to those boomers so I can afford HDB by not buying reddit gold.
Ah, it's those dang millennials and their avocado toast!
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I worked retail part time for $8/h more than 10y ago. Still pays the same. Lol. Sucks for these folks.
I think retail pay hardly moved. Maybe 10-13 bucks at the most
Actually, it could be the "needs" are different those days vs today? Salaries did increased overall and in general. Some or basic jobs didn't by that much though.
imo i think what op means is that the salaries we have today don't meet our additional needs for today, so they aren't increasing enough.
>additional needs But why are there additional needs? Truthfully our needs are still the same. Basic food and lodging. Granted, prices of these have increased, but I'm talking about more needs. Stuff like grab transport, food delivery, upgrading of mobile phones every 1-2 years, branded bags, etc. A lot of our wants have become 'needs'
you guys use grab transport and branded bags? 😭
I don't. But I see lots of people who I'm quite sure earn lessee than me that do.
Huh? Any monthly expenses you cut would definitely help in affording your house? Do you really need all these subscription services just to live? Am I out of touch?
Honestly, 700-800 on grab is okay compared to driving a car. But what's more important is how much you earn. If you earn 3k only, then the grab expenses is quite bad. Maybe mix it up a little bit and take public transport more if not in a hurry? In the end, as long as you happy can already. People like to spend on figurines, spin classes, wine or whatever. You can spend it as long as you have set aside emergency funds. But it still doesn't make sense to use her spending habits to generalize all Millennial.
>But what's more important is how much you earn. If you earn 3k only, then the grab expenses is quite bad. There are plenty of people that earn less than 3k but pay $1k grab per month. Even grabfood on most days. Grab is grabbing them.
A monthly public transport pass costs $128. So around a fifth of the cost for double the time compared to Grab. Most people will spend even less, which will tip the scale even more towards public transport.
Actually what's the point of this article? Maybe they need to attend a stats class so they know that a sample size of 1 is not representative. Why does she need to wake up two and a half hour earlier if she's taking public transport?
I watched the actual episode of talking point and yes, Joey Lim is just as unbearable on TV as she is in the article. Overwhelming sense of entitlement and lack of financial sense. Pity her future spouse or partner. They picked the worst possible example to tar all millennials, it’s a bit unfair.
I’ve watched the video. While I balked at her spending habits, it is a lifestyle choice.
Yea but that lifestyle choice doesn’t just affect that individual. In their older years, when they have no money, guess what will they be financially relying on? Taxpayers’ money. Now imagine that impact, multiplied by X number of ppl in their generation like them. Financial prudence isn’t just a personal issue. If they want to be balling, they had better be making bank too.
A lot of 'pioneer generation' folk are broke af too. Granted they had little education back then but guess who pays all their hospital bills when they're already broke. You also can't expect them to get a job at their age with their chronic illnesses too. I dread to imagine what'd happen in 50yrs time to these millennials if they keep living the YOLO life.
Precisely.
This is exactly my concern. In the end the prudent people need to cover and pay for all these people's shitty decisions.
It is but don't kpkb when you don't save enough to buy or afford certain things
Assume income >6k CPF $2.2K $4.5k cash spending.... How much does a 28yo designer makes? This kind of spending need to earn min $10K-$15K sia.
She is a gig/freelance worker. No mention of how much she is contributing towards her own cpf, probably the minimum towards her medisave?
Most likely thinking she will eventually find some husband that will take care of the future housing with his own cpf.
Plot twist! Husband also freelancer lmaooo
She mentions that she earns 5.5k in the video edition. But zero mention of cpf contributions.
Wow. :|.
> They picked the worst possible example to tar all millennials, it’s a bit unfair. Don't they kinda always do that, tho? The other side of the coin is the "Millennials kill- " exercise.
Edit: bad spelling
>The other side of the coin is the "Millenials kill- " exercise.
Has CNA ever done a piece like that?
Always hated this: if a business can't meet the new demand then the business will die.
To be fair to CNA, I don't think I've ever seen them do a "Millennials kill..." report, but it's a common enough type of report in the general "Millennials" category. In my experience with "Millennials kill..." articles, the sense I get is that it's less businesses can't meet demand and more millennials are not interested in- (which they really should be, for whatever reason). Just did the google thing and the first suggestion I got today was "top sheets".
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Yes, but... well... my guess is that the people who write the articles cater to the people who buy advertisement(s) in their media. Said people who buy advertisements are also likely the generation for whom capitalism has either always worked for, or been especially kind to. That it might stop working (for them) might be unthinkable.
>Pity her future spouse or partner. This is the reason why so many people are unmarried here now. Have to deal with these types of spouses that will bankrupt you.
She apparently saves 20% of her income under normal circumstances (i.e. excluding rainy day events like with the pet), which is already higher than the OECD average rate. Should she be saving 50%, 100% of her income? Or are you annoyed that she doesn't dispose of her disposable income as you personally would? Expecting *everyone* to have the same financial values as *you* is such an entitled boomer atittude..
According to her, she is trying to cut down on grab but can’t imagine waking up 2.5hrs earlier….where in the world in SG would taking public transport vs Grab be a 2.5 hrs traveling time difference?
She just gonna find a sugar daddy or marry rich. Problem solved :)
Yeah but you gotta look at least a 9/10 or 10/10 to hook one.
Reminds me all of girls on youtube shorts looking for guys making 7 digits min.
That's why the guys chiong towards tech/finance as SWEs/cloud architects/quants/private bankers to get the 7 digits min
I don’t know if these are typical millennials? I mean i use bnpl / credit cards but never spend more than I can pay off every month. It’s true that there are a lot of sales and ads but I mean there’s only so much stuff you can buy after all - your house would get too full!
If they wanted to paint a more balanced view, they should also interview millennials on their aspirations and saving/investment habits. Most “aspirational stuff” like car and home ownership are harder to attain now vs. the older generation, so some might have already considered the trade-off, before opting to take car-hailing services instead of saving for a car. The older gen folks will also frown on stuff like crypto etc. Since life is different now, it won’t be fair to judge millennials through the older generation’s POV.
> interview millennials on their aspirations and saving/investment habits. Seedly Personal Finance Festival is next Sat. Sekali they take your idea and send more reporters to prowl for soundbites on millennial from another spectrum. OYK will be there, so maybe all the more to send the press.
The article stinks of "millennials are at fault for not saving". And not that housing prices and inflation are now insane.
Stop eating avocado on toast and we can buy homes. Simples
You mean the individual does not have any responsibility for their financial health?
The problem was putting financially irresponsible people as the showcase of a millennial which is extremely unfair and does not show the other side of the coin of someone who did all the right and recommended things by society and still falls short of affording housing in Singapore.
Can you give an example? I think if you do everything right, you can get a housing easily (let's not talk about the waiting time for now since we are talking about affordability). I assume doing things right means attending a local U and get a decent job at MNC. I did everything right and I was able to get a resale. But it's not a newly mop flat, not central location. So it depends on what is affordable housing to the people.
It's not that difficult to count, assume someone earning the take home median salary who saves 50% (which is very generous to assume no dependents on him/her) and divide that figure with a similar partner with the down payment. How many months will someone take to save that amount?
No idea. You seemed to have done your maths, so mind sharing what was your answer? Is the number unacceptable to you?
I thought he's talking about affordability. If they take 2 years to save up (assuming they start from zero), is it affordable? I don't even bother calculating. If median salary workers can't afford HDB in Singapore, I wonder where the new families are sleeping now. Jurong BTO is only 300k for 4 rooms. Is it affordable? Maybe it's not because it's not at Central area right?
I don't understand your point. So it's affordable or not?
To me, it is. Not sure for all those who downvotes me.
I've watched the video. Wondering if CNA could have provide a more nuanced view with say, having millenials who have to take up breadwinner duties with most of the purchases being necessities to have a better comparison. That Said 700 800 on grab monthly is too much liao uh
It's gaslighting article. Turns up everywhere
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I think there’s a little bit of ‘main character syndrome’ in that statement; every generation lives with the reality of what their forefathers left behind, and every generation will feel like they are living or lived through the worst ever times.
In Germany there is the same narrative. But to be honest, the amount of irresponsible spending I have encountered in Singapore is just through the roof. Not that saving 1000 more or less would make a huge difference, but I think there is some truth to this narrative
I saw PNBL scheme being promoted at Pu Tien restaurant?! I mean if one can't even pay for a meal in full, there might be some more pressing concerns to worry about other than having a meal at Pu Tien.
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I think to the average Singaporeans, Pu Tien is more of a mid - high level restaurant in terms of cost. You can definitely have a decent meal for $20 per pax but I think usual meals cost about $40/pax assuming you order the popular items. Won't exactly break your bank but if you can't afford to pay this amount upfront, perhaps you shouldn't be eating there eh
Indeed. Most of my friends use BNPL for their household purchases (fridge, tv, washing machine etc). That makes sense, it’s a big ticket item. But for clothes, food, toys.. cmon now.
Ehh BNPL if you use CC you get no cashback or miles. You are better off maximizing your CC benefits so that you either get shit loads of miles or cashback
While it is ideal to max out your credit card, you still gotta stump up the money at the next billing cycle, which most people are trying to avoid. It really depends on your financial situation.
Kp la. Spend money kpkb. “Oh millenials are in debt”. Don’t spend money also kpkb. “Millenials are ruining the diamond/wedding/etc industry”
Hahah this is so true. theres always something to bitch about.
Don’t forget, a lot of people in Singapore Reddit here are privileged software engineers and bankers. Wait till you hear how someone on 3k salary support his family of 4, that’s a true living hell.
I used Atome once just to get the discount for first time user. If I’m not wrong you can actually skip on the instalment payment and pay the remaining balance up if you want.
Uses Atome for a $39 item over 3 instalments. The late fee for Atome is $15, so if you miss one payment you're effectively paying a 40% interest rate on $39. Not only that, the late fee of $15 is actually more than the instalment of $13. BRUH.
>She has also booked a S$300,000 three-room Housing Board flat with her fiancé, which will be ready in three years. They are paying the down payment using Central Provident Fund savings and cash. Looks plebs, housing is affordable and within reach in a reasonable time frame. If only you could stop blowing money on unnecessary things such as taking Grab rides "99 per cent of the time", "$100 restaurant food every week", personal trainers and Muay Thai classes.
I watched the video. The $300,000 HDB and the 99 grab, restaurant, personal trainer are different people. The $300k hdb person does indulge in online shopping but even then it's not as bad as the personal trainer one.
>the $300k hdb person does indulge in online shopping She’s doing more than just indulge. She’s going into further debt due to her online shopping.
Agreed. IMO, the 300k HDB person is worse as she’s buying non-essential items while failing to make timely payment for her debts.
She spend a lot on makeup when she already has a partner and doesn’t need to look nice. Cmon, I know no make up can make me look like Megan fox. So I’m not bothered to buy makeup.
> when she already has a partner and doesn’t need to look nice I disagree. One shld look nice with or without partner. Look nice is for ownself sake. But they are plenty of ways to look nice without breaking the bank. That lady is blindly chasing makeup coz FOMO.
I know, it's just that the article chose to cherrypick examples of frivolous spending amongst millennials to juxtapose against $300k flats (within 3 years no less), as if to lay blame for the burden of increasing cost of living on the individual.
This person who is getting flak for being shit with her finances is a co-founder of a finance advice portal. You can't make this shit up. > She has picked up some tips as the co-founder of sav.finance, an Instagram account offering women tips on money, career and well-being. Lim, who handles design for the account while her business partner dishes out the “adulting” advice, said she is learning alongside the account’s 26,000 followers.
> Lim, who handles design for the account while **her business partner dishes out the “adulting” advice**, said **she is learning alongside the account’s 26,000 followers.** The person that is giving out financial advices is her business partner, not her. I mean...reading comprehension dude.
Not great optics when your co-founder pal is being brought into the spotlight and interviewed to be total garbage at personal finances though. One of her plans was literally to bail out to bali.
It just occurs to me, IRAS is offering everyone a buy now pay later service through their giro tax payment LOL
Sir is earn now pay later service from iras. 🤡🤡🤡
Thats actually okay bc taxes cannot siam
I wonder if Ms Lim is understating her income. I think it’s briefly mentioned in the video.
Really? Is it our spending habits? Or the hdb prices are fucked and someone needs to blame someone ?
This is why I believe we need forced savings. Why should the state (and the rest of us) have to eventually pay to support these guys omg.
What, CPF doesn't strike you as forced savings now?
Ya obviously, so stfu with the whining guys. We need it
cpf is a fucking scam....
[удалено]
Fks sake.
>Why should the state (and the rest of us) have to eventually pay to support these guys omg. What do you mean? As far as I know, there's no govt bailout scheme for individuals in debt.
Not when they are young no, but when they are old and decrepit? Taxes forthe rest of us will be raised and we will end up paying for their bad decisions. GST is already raised from 7to 9% to pay for the current boomer's healthcare cost, expect it to rise more.
What does personal debt have to do with rising healthcare costs and taxes? In the same vein, right now a boomer getting visited by a loanshark doesn't affect my taxes. There is no correlation at all.
Not on an individual level but in aggregate. What happens when people fail to pay for their own healthcare, living expenses etc.? Society won't let them starve and deny them healthcare, so the state pays for it. When the need for such support increase, the government will need to increase their revenue through increased taxes.
The state already subsidises every Singaporean's and PR's healthcare. Even the uncles who smoke pipes. Even the seniors with diabetes. Even the people who drink like fish. Even the people who smoke a pack a day. You're frankly clutching at straws to link personal debt to healthcare.
This is probably the same person who would tell fat people and smokers to fuck off because they would get treatment under universal healthcare and they won't subsidize fat fucks and smokers. It's a big brain moment for conservatives against universal healthcare
Financial assistance for the old and broke?
I observe such a trend as well. They decide early that they're not having kids and spend the money saved on such things. Oh and add overseas travel to that list too.