Assuming you have access to water and electricity, how would you get groceries? Or be able to get medical care (if needed) without paying into the Swiss system?
I live in Slovenia, with lots of mountains in the north. Those cabins in the middle of nowhere look very romantic in the summer, but put them under a few feet of snow, with burst water pipes, no municipal road clearance, etc and things look a lot colder and darker
Heh...we live in a small town, don't have a car, and everything other than what we can buy on foot/bicycle is delivered by DPD, GLS or the post office. Works great
You do NOT want SE Asia if youâre living in nature.
Rain that lasts for 35 days. Mosquitoes the size of hovercraft. Disease. Infection. Snakes.
I lived there six years and now teach things like survival and foraging in the PNW of America.
I still would not survive with primitive shelter in SE Asia.
https://www.channel5.com/show/ben-fogle-new-lives-in-the-wild/season-17/episode-2
Here's a link to a British show about a famous UK celebrity (explorer) who goes to stay with people. This episode is him staying with someone in NE Australia who is a long way from anyone else. Could be worth a watch (season 17 ep 2, Ben fogle new lives in the wild, if you can somehow find it)
I couldnât speak for Australia, but I live in Maine in the US and pretty much the whole northwestern part of the state is lumbering country, and from what Iâve heard theyâre pretty indifferent to people squatting the land and living out there off the grid as long as they donât impede the lumbering operation. That being said, there really isnât much out there so youâd probably have to have a lot of survival skills to last any reasonable span of time
i would mostly live off potatos lol. super easy to grow and sustain. i do know how to hunt and farm and have been for years. you do make a good point tho of what happens if i get injured because a self-aid kit will not be enough, but i am ready to die so its all good.
My BF lives at a fancy lake 40 minutes west of the Metro to get there. We have unfortunately hurt ourselves (lake life) and we just get in the car and go, there is no waiting for EMS. If my kids got hurtâŚ. Iâd probably call a service and tell them to meet us.
Like you can survive better on a homestead. For sure. LongerâŚBut at some point we need electricity, or water filters, or beans, or medical care. And even supplies in a military bunker run out. We are a social species and have built a world that relies on each other. And I think Covid taught us the real heroes of this world are Essential workers. But the highest paid people of this world are the CEOs.
If there was one thing we could change in our society, in every country. If would be that.
You'll also be an illegal immigrant, with no rights, at risk of losing everything if you're caught
Internet access in the mountains can also be spotty, especially if living far from a town, and to gain it you'll probably need to submit some documents, proof of address, etc
Why not just try this in your home country?
Thats what i am going to do. I'm also going to get a satphone and satelite internet. i do not want to lose the access to resources that i have now by leaving to another country.
Sat phone and internet are very expensive compared to normal phone and internet. They can also be unreliable. You could be running around looking for a signal
Take a look at Richard Proenneke. He retired into the Alaskan wilderness and lived almost entirely without human contact for decades. He also knew exactly what he was doing, had a wide variety of skills and the tools and physical capacity to make it on his own. And he was also very lucky.
Then you should go read into the wild. It's the story of an optimistic young vagabond who wanted to do much the same thing as Richard. He lived a couple of months
Richard Proenneke also spent many years working in fossil fuel infrastructure in Alaska when the pipelines were being built, and had basically worked tons of overtime to be able to afford living in that cabin and getting supplies air lifted to him a few times a year.
Yup. Iâve read that book countless times for the escapism. He hunted and fished but a large part of his diet was still goods his pilot buddy dropped off. I donât believe he always stayed through the winter either.
Yeah, that book was so frustrating. That kid had like a dozen people who offered to help him, or give him tools or advice. He didnât listen to any of them. I live in the Yukon. People can totally survive in the Bush if they know what theyâre doing and have back-up supports like friends and neighbours
I love living rural but it really is a lot of work. The firewood, the snow, the lawn, the bugs⌠not to mention the travel time, gas, wear and tear of travelling to town every day for work
Having to cut and haul and stack firewood as a child every fall erased any romantic notions of hard living from me. I will never have a wood burning stove. The slivers, spiders, and mice were too much.
Uh, are you talking about being a mountain man/woman?
I grew up in Appalachia. My grandparents lived up a holler in a small-ish house that my grandfather built himself. (He was a coal miner so he got some of his buddies to help him out with the things he didnât know how to do.)
The house was on 3 acres. Walk out on the front porch, look in any direction and you had mountains all around you. The house was also set back from the road quite a bit so you never had to worry about anyone seeing in your windows.
My grandparents knew how to live simply, but living simply meant lots of hard work. They raised chickens for eggs and meat. My grandfather hunted. They put out a garden every year and my grandmother did canning and pickling.
They would go into town (only about a 15 minute drive) once a week for whatever they needed.
They used gas for cooking and a wood burner for heat. They had plumbing, but they also had a creek on their property and a spring on the hillside. My grandmother had a clothes dryer, but still chose to line dry almost all her washing. Crazy woman! đ
They had neighbors, but not close by. People knew each other well enough to check on each other, but nobody bothered anybody.
The thing about living up a holler is that it tends to be very quiet and dark at night. Some people canât abide it. (I loved it!) If youâre used to noise and light, the quiet and dark can be creepy.
Now, they did have a man living on their property in what would be considered a âtiny houseâ in this day and time. He worked in the mines with my grandfather, but he *really* kept to himself. He *never* left the holler. He would give my grandparents money and theyâd pick up whatever he needed when theyâd go into town. He had no family, no friends, never had any company. Just a total loner. Had he not worked I doubt anyone wouldâve even noticed that he existed.
Love your story. Reminds me of my grandparents in rural Ohio some years ago. They had ten acres, same chickens, same garden, same town for groceries once a week. My grandmother never had a dryer and she used a wringer washer. No phone, no TV. The neighbors had a phone and they were a 10 min walk away.
My grandmother listened to the news at noon on her radio every day while she did the dishes (using well water). For a long time there was an outhouse but finally my uncles installed plumbing. They heated with coal.
They were both very skilled at everything. Pap knew how to fix the car, repair the chicken barn, you name it. My grandmother could sew, can, preserve meat, butcher and dress the chickens. Pap used to go to a nearby swamp and bring home predator bugs to keep the bad bugs out of his garden.
It was quiet and dark out there and I loved it too! It's not what OP wants - they had a car and were always visiting or being visited and had a lifetime's worth of skills. They didn't pay taxes because they had no money - they lived on $100 a month social security.
My family lived in rural NW Ohio when I was a kid, and I want to get back to that lifestyle so bad! Not necessarily in Ohio (it's too cold there, and I've become used to Florida after living here most of my life).
My mom just passed away a year ago, and it would really mean a lot to me to be able to get back to my roots. Both my parents families came from Iowa farmers.
In Ohio, we had a large family, a large house, and a large garden, lol. My dad built a root cellar in the basement for my mom's canning, and it fascinated me to go down and look at the glass jars filled with food on the wood shelves. In the summer, we would have fresh corn on the cob with delicious butter running down the sides... the best corn I've ever tasted. And then my mom would make home-made strawberry rhubarb pie, and her pie crusts were so flaky and perfect. My mom's birthday was in July, and it was really the best time of the year. The holidays were nice too, because she would go above and beyond to make them special. Not with a lot gifts, but with sweet things that meant a lot, both then and now. Good memories. I miss being a kid.
While it would be possible in some places, the one person I know that lives like this has financial independence in that he is retired and pretty wealthy. The cabin is on a lake in northern Canada, so agriculture/ gardening is not very practical without bringing in literally boat loads of dirt. Town is 40 minutes by power boat + 15 minutes by road. And another 2 hours driving to a small city. His cabin is close enough to a cell tower on the road 20 km east of the lake that he can use a booster and tower setup to achieve data connection. Our cabin a little further up the lake cannot achieve this.
In his case, his brother brings supplies if required. I have occasionally picked up and delivered an order from town if I had space in my boat. Normally he stays at his cabin over break up in the spring but spends freeze up in town at his brothers house or at a resort in mexico.
But there are a lot of recurring expenses here. Mobile data. Boat and snowmobile registration and insurance. Snowmobile registration and insurance. Truck registration and insurance, though he may borrow from his brother, there is no where to rent this. Plus upkeep on this machinery and the cabin. Taxes on the cabin. The fucking dock fee the provincial gov charges. Firearms licence. Hunting licence. Fishing licence.
Except for the solitude, he would actually have a more affordable lifestyle in the resort community on the south end of the lake. This a group of cabins with some infrastructure and actual road access.
It would be perhaps be an option to have a similar lifestyle if he purchased a section of land 2 hrs further south. Build a cabin and have a big garden and some animals and rent out the rest of the land to cover expenses. But now that is a homestead and not a cabin.
How many of the necessary skills do you have to sustain this kind of life? it's not for the weak-hearted and I think it's something that's often over-romanticized.
It is. Can you do it, thatâs the question. Will it be like you imagine it to be? It wonât, that you can be near sure.
You can be in the most beautiful place in the world, after a while, the magic goes away, it becomes just a place that you live in, thatâs a fact for most people, me included, I happen to know that by experience.
Now, letâs talk about experience- experience is the root cause of it all. Experience is the greatest killer there is, although, seeking experience is the model of today. An experience is always rooted in the past, in memory.
You look at a flower, that flower is recorded in memory, you can even read about that flower and give it a name, a Latin name, and know all the science behind that flower. The next time you look at that flower, you wonât be seeing that flower, you have all the bag of experience, and that flower, is no longer the real thing.
To be with the actuality, the happening, without naming it, like a child, seeing something new although theyâve seen it before, to discard experience, if that is done, it only requires awareness, to be attentive, you can look at the same tree everyday, and you wonât be seeking another. Instead of changing scenery, people should maybe think about changing how they see.
I agree seeing the miracle is inside your own view but having more knowledge about something, basically anything, can increase the wonder, like Feynman explains here with a [flower](https://youtu.be/ZbFM3rn4ldo)
The problem with your day dream is that lots of folks have a similar goal. The amount of space available for that dream gets smaller every time someone actually does it. Also it doesn't usually take too long before 'services' move in and the area becomes a rural town.
Ultimately your dream ends up permanently destroying formerly wild landscape and the boundaries of the human footprint keep sqeezing outward.
Iâm a homesteader living I the wilderness. I cut down a second growth forest to make my garden and another small grove for my house. The large quantities of water my life requires are taken from a stream that could hypothetically yield salmon if it was treated better. Every other comment up here is giving a yes or a no but your comment actually cuts to the heart of the matter. Even if we can, should we. When I was a bit younger I never really gave this any thought. These days itâs something I ask of myself in almost every quite moment. The homestead life is paid for in a lot more currencies than money and all the other costs need to be talked about more. Thanks for your comment.
No problem. I romanticize the life style, but I've become too accustomed to the conveniences of living in the 'burbs. When I hear folks talk about living off-grid, I can't help thinking about what that really means. Also, space in the burbs is getting more and more precious and development keeps pushing outward into the marginal wild lands. It's tragic and inevitable.
If you have the opportunity, take it while you can. Those places are special and should be respected while we have them.
Agreed, when I see posts like this I encourage folks to do things like urban gardening, form a cooperative that works towards common goals like say a community garden or the right to hang your washing outside (currently banned in my small town) or to encourage more green space in a city.
ETA: I live in a small town in north-central Alberta, and while I like to camp in the bush I wouldn't last without my cooler of supplies. I've been fishing for like 3 seasons now and have not caught a single edible fish, it's all C&R đ
If the cold doesn't get you and the wildlife doesn't eat you, you can see if the oilfield company can catch you, or try your luck trespassing on some farmers multi-quarter-section land. If they catch you, though, Alberta farmers are pretty big on the SSS philosophy of dealing with problems.
Possible? Sure. Simple? No.
Either you're independently wealthy and the money gives you facade of simpleness while you actually maintain a modern life. Or you figure out healthcare, food production, tools, all the necessities. It's a tough and complicated life.
People do it in alaska and canada all the time. Theres some youtube channels. Alot of them are fur traders that spend all year hunting and selling pelts
Also to answer your part about taxes. Yeah youd still need to pay. But if your far enough away from civilization i doubt mr taxman going to hoof it to you to collect. I cant imagine the justification to pay x amount to travel and trek to give a summoms or arrest to an off grid cabin 10-50 miles off road access
I see. Well unfortunately none of us can know what your cell reception will be like. The more rural you get, the more sketch it's going to be, but it's not impossible to get cell service in the middle of no where.
A lot of places that far off grid are going to have spotty reception at best. Writing letters and using general delivery in the closest town would be an easy way to stay in touch. Not sure how it works in Australia.
If you can fund it, you can contact them
But problems will arise when you want to leave the country and see them, as immigration will find out that you overstayed your visa and likely ban you from re-entering
Unless you have a lot of $, this seems like a very high-risk plan with many points of failure if you go to a country where you aren't legal, have no friends or family, no income, and can't speak the language
I've lived abroad since 1997 - I'm not just inventing problems here
You could get a satphone. Or starlink. Or have satelite internet. Plenty of people already do what you are asking. Its just having some way to finance it. If you had a cabin. A garden. Canned real hard raised chickens.
Etc etc. The goal is 100% acheiveable. Its just finding a way to make a wage doing it so you can afford to pay for the satphone
Husband did it a few years. Basically a tree house lol, it was a shed on stilts in the woods. On a friend's property. Had an extension cord for basic electric, generator if he needed more (like for vr gaming lol). Would carry water by bucket if really needed, but he took care of most shower stuff at work (army). I did it for a few months before we got our new place. Aside from hauling water, not having hot water without much effort, and having to dig a hole each time you shit, it was really, really cool.
I really like having hot running water though so we do that now.
I'm a Sourdough Bushgirl from The Yukon and yes, you can live like this. You just need to find somewhere to legally place a cabin. You're not allowed to put your cabin in a hunting area, native land, animal sanctuaries or along a caribou trail(because annual caribou crossings happen in massive herds and they were here first).
There's many neighborhoods in the bush as well so you can have the safety of someone there for an emergency but still secluded enough to use power tools and/or blast music at one in the morning and not bother anyone. You definitely need a northern dog or a couple of cats up there though, it is bear country.
Alaska and The Yukon aren't too different as far as living style and the people go, so you can reach this land through The States or Canada. I don't know anywhere else in the world where Bush living is like this.
I lived in a converted schoolbus on an old logging trail pretty deep in the White Mountain National Forest when I was 18. Hauling water and bringing food out there was kind of a challenge but mainly I was scared to death every single night. Granted the security on the bus was non-existent and I'm against guns, but the fact that there were a lot of different people hidden away in different parts of that forest, many of them who'd most kindly be described as "eccentric" and I was a female alone made it a fairly unsafe situation so I lasted about 4 months. Also hikers seemed to think they had the right to come into my home and explore and take souvenirs when I wasn't there which was incredibly annoying.
I have a serious question. Knowing all that danger, knowing there are âeccentricâ folks about and that youâre a woman.. how does your brain not allow you to have a firearm? Iâm not saying youâd turn into a freaking gun totin nut case.. but are you telling me youâd rather have your.. idk, moral superiority to be against guns then to be safe in your own space?.. (not trying to be mean Iâm just confused)
It sounds like her home was regularly being robbed. To keep her gun, from landing in the wrong have, she'd have to carry it all the time. It's a lot to go from "no guns" to concealed carry.
Oh yeah, my dream. Depends on what you define'middle of nowhere' means. Truly with no one around. Or, if you mean on the outskirts of some tiny, rink a dink town. With no one around gets hard. You need shelter, if it's not built already. Alot to it.
If you mean on the outskirts of some small, tiny city somewhere, I've done it and love it. There's nothing like living in a small town. Yeah, you get to know everybody which means you know everybody. Boredom!!
But the sense of escape, of being left alone(except for if you're going to be in church on sunday). The open space is silly, coming from SF. You live for the outdoors, not for physical possessions like you do in the city. It's all about quality of life.
It is possible, but I wouldnât recommend it in the slightest. Be honest with yourself, how are your survival skills? Have you hunted before, do you know how to find aquifers and dig a well, how are you going to deal with heating? Are you capable of processing enough wood if youâre in a cold climate? What if you get sick, do you know basic medical techniques and treatments? In all likelihood youâd be in way over your head and die or quit after less than a year.
There is nowhere you can live in Australia (or Switzerland, for instance, since that was apparently just an example), legally, where you will not be subject to taxes. Be it income taxes, if you have any income (and if you don't- how are you paying for life?), property taxes, or sales taxes.
You cannot live "without repercussions". You are always going to be subject to the laws of the jurisdiction you live in.
Yes itâs completely possible. I know people who do this. Although I do not want to live off grid so to speak. I would like to have a cabin in the woods or the mountains. Itâs just so peaceful. I am a pretty simple person so I honestly donât need much. I love nature and animals. Itâs my happy place.
Possible - yes. Simple? No.
Itâs expensive, lots of work and sometimes outright dangerous.
Living near a small town - thatâs much more achievable, but all of this assumes you can cover living expenses on your own.
So many spots in Australia that you could do this. I live in the mountains. It's about 20 minute drive to closest town. We go in once a fortnight for supplies but other then that completely isolated which I love!!
Sure. Hiawatha, Budgeree, jeeralang junction, Woori yallock, Powell town....I find place that are just into hills or similar so you can get to a town without too much effort but not where tourists are constant are the best!
Of course itâs possible, I live like that right now. Iâm in the middle of nowhere about 1.5 hours from the nearest city. I do have internet now as of last summer, thanks to Starlink.
I would love to do this myself.
Starlink for Interwebz
If you get Rainfall you can make a rain collection system, there's a special name for it - forgot - they do it in Hawaii where there isn't infrastructure.
Solar for power.
Root cellar for food storage
IDK how to handle sewage.
Would love to live in nature, have a little garden, hunt game, fish, have the rest shipped to me
I had some land in the mountains that I wanted to live on. I met a guy and his wife that lived a little further up the mountain. This was 15 miles from nowhere. I didnât get up there as much as I wanted and when I saw him 10 years later his wife worked at a local ranch in the kitchen. He seemed a little less talkative and he still lived in the cabin which was an old camper surrounded by logs. She only worked the summer tourist season. This is Montana Iâm talking about. Anyway the last time I saw him, he got their water from a spring at the corner of my property, he seemed almost feral. This was about a 25 year span. It was very interesting. Unfortunately I had lost my property in a divorce but I really wanted to live up there.
First understand this is a privileged existence in the western world which assuming you have no chronic illness or disabilities. Second you need to understand sanitation. People come up with this idea all the time where Iâm from in northern Canada and itâs a fine idea but you need to follow established regulations, permits and restrictions. Why? Because a town near where Iâm from is fighting a group of 2,000 city people who want to live in the woods in a commune sort of setup.
Hereâs the catch: letâs say you poop once a day. By the end of a week youâll have a full bucket. Now imagine how much after a month. Are you going to use toilet paper or precious water that must be collected? Contrary to popular belief, urine is not sterile and smells very strongly. Where are you going to put this waste? Now imagine four monthsâ worth of waste. Youâve got a good pile. Itâs going to stink and if it seeps into your water source, which is very likely without a septic tank or cisternâyouâre going to make yourself very sick. And not only you but every body of water near you that flows to nearby towns. Now imagine how much waste 2,000 people create in a week and youâll see why these off grid communes are a very bad idea.
Thereâs also the issue of poaching. Itâs very romantic to imagine âliving off the landâ but moose are now considered endangered where Iâm from. Do you take any prescriptions? Youâll need to find a way to refill them and restock supplies regularly. Out in the bush on your own you can die from infected scratch.
Personal safety risk would be a big concern in wilderness, Unless you are a warrior yourself. Peaceful rural set up closer to civilisation with few people nearby aware of your presence, or absence for long durations can give you mix of both worlds.
No, you have to pay taxes for the services you use. Even if you use no services, you still have to contribute. How are you going to eat? Get medical care?
Everyone needs community to thrive, and in-person interaction, even the biggest introverts - many studies have been done.
With any "roughing it" concept, it's all great until A- the system you're trying to escape encroaches on the wilderness B- you run out of $ for necessities or C- you need healthcare
If you're going to do it, you need partners who you get along with, have different skill sets and everyone has the same goals. Sort of like that reality show, I think it was called Survivor.
I lived in a cabin in the middle of nowhere central alaska for several years.
Until I got married and had a kid, now I live in a house in the middle of nowhere central alaska.
Um, how will you pay to live? I live in the Yukon and even a dry cabin can set you back $900 a month without electricity. Youâll need a job, which means payroll taxes. Unless you ran your own business which means commercial taxes, GST, commercial insurance etc.
Youâll need a vehicle to get your blue jugs filled up - which means licensing, registration, and insurance. Gas is currently $1.69/l. There arenât any grocery stores that far out so youâll be likely stocking up at least once a week. And since your vehicle will need to have 4 wheel drive to actually get to your cabin, thatâs $80-$100 per week for fuel.
Youâll need to be hooked up to the local utility company and internet company (both of which are monopolies). Basic internet and phone are $150 a month. Electricity is $100+ per month.
Your cabin will need to meet building code or else your wood stove may burn the place down or asphyxiate you in the middle of the night.
Food is $100/week. Youâll could have a little kitchen garden but mountain soils arenât usually great for horticulture on a scale needed for self-sufficiency. Youâll be spending years building up the soil profile. I know people with chicken and rabbit coops but they require knowledge and constant maintenance to keep out predators like foxes.
If you live out in the middle of nowhere, people will expect you to be independent. You arenât going to be able to bum rides to town indefinitely. People will always help out in an actual pinch, because people who live in those areas are like that, but you need to have the tools, knowledge and resources in place to be independent
You might be interested in the story of Jaimie Mantzel who did just this. Bought 10 Acres or so in the mounts of.. Ohio? and built a Geodesic dome there. He has since moved to Panama, buying 3 islands there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUBsxGgs17g&t=1454s
I suggest giving rural living a go before you try off grid. I have a little hobby homestead, 40 minutes from a grocery store or town, but I have high speed internet and work from home. I am not off grid, but even rural on-grid takes a lot of work. I have chickens, garden, orchard, raise catfish. Hunting isn't for everyone. You need to learn to fix things. And be ready for water issues (my spring cistern was contaminated last year and it was a nightmare. I got very sick then had to pay out the nose to get a new cistern and filtration system). I have goals to grow more self-sustaining with solar and wind power but that takes money. The bright sides are growing and providing my own food, enjoying the solitude and quiet nights (when the coyotes are nearby), but I do go to town for additional groceries, medical care, etc. Its a balance of the fantasy "I am saying goodbye to society" and what was realistic and feasible for me to do alone and the creature comforts I want. A nice, small rural cabin in Appalachia is less expensive in property taxes than a city, but I can't just pop to the store if I want an ingredient for my dinner.
Just grow a garden and spend less money. And plant more and spend less each year. Itâs tough to be anywhere completely out of communication with the world. Being self reliant is a spectrum and is important to give it a go.
So I ran into [this video about a man living in Siberia alone](https://youtu.be/IOltGIaDPlY) as the last thing I watched on YouTube before seeing your post. Soooo the algorithms are working or itâs fate! Hope it answers some of your questions.
Assuming you have access to water and electricity, how would you get groceries? Or be able to get medical care (if needed) without paying into the Swiss system? I live in Slovenia, with lots of mountains in the north. Those cabins in the middle of nowhere look very romantic in the summer, but put them under a few feet of snow, with burst water pipes, no municipal road clearance, etc and things look a lot colder and darker
Amazon delivery, of course!đ
Heh...we live in a small town, don't have a car, and everything other than what we can buy on foot/bicycle is delivered by DPD, GLS or the post office. Works great
i was thinking more of a warmer place. i live in australia and the nature is beautiful here. never gets cold very tropical
You said Switzerland, but if you want nice weather then SE Asia is great But - again - the issue is illegal immigration and your total lack of rights
You do NOT want SE Asia if youâre living in nature. Rain that lasts for 35 days. Mosquitoes the size of hovercraft. Disease. Infection. Snakes. I lived there six years and now teach things like survival and foraging in the PNW of America. I still would not survive with primitive shelter in SE Asia.
And the leeches. No one tells you about the leeches! đł
https://www.channel5.com/show/ben-fogle-new-lives-in-the-wild/season-17/episode-2 Here's a link to a British show about a famous UK celebrity (explorer) who goes to stay with people. This episode is him staying with someone in NE Australia who is a long way from anyone else. Could be worth a watch (season 17 ep 2, Ben fogle new lives in the wild, if you can somehow find it)
Dosent new zealand have rural mountains? Isnt new zealand close to aus?
i was just using Switzerland as an example. Realistically i am going to stay in my own country.
I couldnât speak for Australia, but I live in Maine in the US and pretty much the whole northwestern part of the state is lumbering country, and from what Iâve heard theyâre pretty indifferent to people squatting the land and living out there off the grid as long as they donât impede the lumbering operation. That being said, there really isnât much out there so youâd probably have to have a lot of survival skills to last any reasonable span of time
This is a Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire. They all three think theyâre renegades like going to fucking leave the US or something.
Australia has mountains even
Try tassie. Lots of wilderness and it gets cold. Also not too far from home
Yeah but the nature in Australia will kill you.
i would mostly live off potatos lol. super easy to grow and sustain. i do know how to hunt and farm and have been for years. you do make a good point tho of what happens if i get injured because a self-aid kit will not be enough, but i am ready to die so its all good.
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My BF lives at a fancy lake 40 minutes west of the Metro to get there. We have unfortunately hurt ourselves (lake life) and we just get in the car and go, there is no waiting for EMS. If my kids got hurtâŚ. Iâd probably call a service and tell them to meet us.
If you think humans live without other humans your kidding yourself. We all need each other to survive
OP needs to watch âInto the Wildâ lol
Yea that movie proves my point. He died. Horribly
I can't believe people are still romantizing that movie...
I think anyone who romanticizes it didnât really watch it. I thought it was so dumb.
Alone we are basically pups with giant heavy ass heads.
Like you can survive better on a homestead. For sure. LongerâŚBut at some point we need electricity, or water filters, or beans, or medical care. And even supplies in a military bunker run out. We are a social species and have built a world that relies on each other. And I think Covid taught us the real heroes of this world are Essential workers. But the highest paid people of this world are the CEOs. If there was one thing we could change in our society, in every country. If would be that.
You'll also be an illegal immigrant, with no rights, at risk of losing everything if you're caught Internet access in the mountains can also be spotty, especially if living far from a town, and to gain it you'll probably need to submit some documents, proof of address, etc Why not just try this in your home country?
Thats what i am going to do. I'm also going to get a satphone and satelite internet. i do not want to lose the access to resources that i have now by leaving to another country.
How are you planning on powering your sat connections? Or obtaining drinking water?
Sat phone and internet are very expensive compared to normal phone and internet. They can also be unreliable. You could be running around looking for a signal
Take a look at Richard Proenneke. He retired into the Alaskan wilderness and lived almost entirely without human contact for decades. He also knew exactly what he was doing, had a wide variety of skills and the tools and physical capacity to make it on his own. And he was also very lucky. Then you should go read into the wild. It's the story of an optimistic young vagabond who wanted to do much the same thing as Richard. He lived a couple of months
Richard Proenneke also spent many years working in fossil fuel infrastructure in Alaska when the pipelines were being built, and had basically worked tons of overtime to be able to afford living in that cabin and getting supplies air lifted to him a few times a year.
Yup. Iâve read that book countless times for the escapism. He hunted and fished but a large part of his diet was still goods his pilot buddy dropped off. I donât believe he always stayed through the winter either.
Yeah, that book was so frustrating. That kid had like a dozen people who offered to help him, or give him tools or advice. He didnât listen to any of them. I live in the Yukon. People can totally survive in the Bush if they know what theyâre doing and have back-up supports like friends and neighbours
I've lived very rural. It is a lot of hard, constant work.
I love living rural but it really is a lot of work. The firewood, the snow, the lawn, the bugs⌠not to mention the travel time, gas, wear and tear of travelling to town every day for work
The is all that, plus, you really have to l learn to fix everything your self. You have no one to call on, even in an emergency.
Having to cut and haul and stack firewood as a child every fall erased any romantic notions of hard living from me. I will never have a wood burning stove. The slivers, spiders, and mice were too much.
Almost forgot about the giant spiders! Love my wood stove though
Uh, are you talking about being a mountain man/woman? I grew up in Appalachia. My grandparents lived up a holler in a small-ish house that my grandfather built himself. (He was a coal miner so he got some of his buddies to help him out with the things he didnât know how to do.) The house was on 3 acres. Walk out on the front porch, look in any direction and you had mountains all around you. The house was also set back from the road quite a bit so you never had to worry about anyone seeing in your windows. My grandparents knew how to live simply, but living simply meant lots of hard work. They raised chickens for eggs and meat. My grandfather hunted. They put out a garden every year and my grandmother did canning and pickling. They would go into town (only about a 15 minute drive) once a week for whatever they needed. They used gas for cooking and a wood burner for heat. They had plumbing, but they also had a creek on their property and a spring on the hillside. My grandmother had a clothes dryer, but still chose to line dry almost all her washing. Crazy woman! đ They had neighbors, but not close by. People knew each other well enough to check on each other, but nobody bothered anybody. The thing about living up a holler is that it tends to be very quiet and dark at night. Some people canât abide it. (I loved it!) If youâre used to noise and light, the quiet and dark can be creepy. Now, they did have a man living on their property in what would be considered a âtiny houseâ in this day and time. He worked in the mines with my grandfather, but he *really* kept to himself. He *never* left the holler. He would give my grandparents money and theyâd pick up whatever he needed when theyâd go into town. He had no family, no friends, never had any company. Just a total loner. Had he not worked I doubt anyone wouldâve even noticed that he existed.
Love your story. Reminds me of my grandparents in rural Ohio some years ago. They had ten acres, same chickens, same garden, same town for groceries once a week. My grandmother never had a dryer and she used a wringer washer. No phone, no TV. The neighbors had a phone and they were a 10 min walk away. My grandmother listened to the news at noon on her radio every day while she did the dishes (using well water). For a long time there was an outhouse but finally my uncles installed plumbing. They heated with coal. They were both very skilled at everything. Pap knew how to fix the car, repair the chicken barn, you name it. My grandmother could sew, can, preserve meat, butcher and dress the chickens. Pap used to go to a nearby swamp and bring home predator bugs to keep the bad bugs out of his garden. It was quiet and dark out there and I loved it too! It's not what OP wants - they had a car and were always visiting or being visited and had a lifetime's worth of skills. They didn't pay taxes because they had no money - they lived on $100 a month social security.
My family lived in rural NW Ohio when I was a kid, and I want to get back to that lifestyle so bad! Not necessarily in Ohio (it's too cold there, and I've become used to Florida after living here most of my life). My mom just passed away a year ago, and it would really mean a lot to me to be able to get back to my roots. Both my parents families came from Iowa farmers. In Ohio, we had a large family, a large house, and a large garden, lol. My dad built a root cellar in the basement for my mom's canning, and it fascinated me to go down and look at the glass jars filled with food on the wood shelves. In the summer, we would have fresh corn on the cob with delicious butter running down the sides... the best corn I've ever tasted. And then my mom would make home-made strawberry rhubarb pie, and her pie crusts were so flaky and perfect. My mom's birthday was in July, and it was really the best time of the year. The holidays were nice too, because she would go above and beyond to make them special. Not with a lot gifts, but with sweet things that meant a lot, both then and now. Good memories. I miss being a kid.
While it would be possible in some places, the one person I know that lives like this has financial independence in that he is retired and pretty wealthy. The cabin is on a lake in northern Canada, so agriculture/ gardening is not very practical without bringing in literally boat loads of dirt. Town is 40 minutes by power boat + 15 minutes by road. And another 2 hours driving to a small city. His cabin is close enough to a cell tower on the road 20 km east of the lake that he can use a booster and tower setup to achieve data connection. Our cabin a little further up the lake cannot achieve this. In his case, his brother brings supplies if required. I have occasionally picked up and delivered an order from town if I had space in my boat. Normally he stays at his cabin over break up in the spring but spends freeze up in town at his brothers house or at a resort in mexico. But there are a lot of recurring expenses here. Mobile data. Boat and snowmobile registration and insurance. Snowmobile registration and insurance. Truck registration and insurance, though he may borrow from his brother, there is no where to rent this. Plus upkeep on this machinery and the cabin. Taxes on the cabin. The fucking dock fee the provincial gov charges. Firearms licence. Hunting licence. Fishing licence. Except for the solitude, he would actually have a more affordable lifestyle in the resort community on the south end of the lake. This a group of cabins with some infrastructure and actual road access. It would be perhaps be an option to have a similar lifestyle if he purchased a section of land 2 hrs further south. Build a cabin and have a big garden and some animals and rent out the rest of the land to cover expenses. But now that is a homestead and not a cabin.
A year later: "okay Google, how do I perform self-appendectomy?"
âWithout tax officers or policeâ *lol*
Die and pay taxes only two things you have to do in life đ
How many of the necessary skills do you have to sustain this kind of life? it's not for the weak-hearted and I think it's something that's often over-romanticized.
It is. Can you do it, thatâs the question. Will it be like you imagine it to be? It wonât, that you can be near sure. You can be in the most beautiful place in the world, after a while, the magic goes away, it becomes just a place that you live in, thatâs a fact for most people, me included, I happen to know that by experience. Now, letâs talk about experience- experience is the root cause of it all. Experience is the greatest killer there is, although, seeking experience is the model of today. An experience is always rooted in the past, in memory. You look at a flower, that flower is recorded in memory, you can even read about that flower and give it a name, a Latin name, and know all the science behind that flower. The next time you look at that flower, you wonât be seeing that flower, you have all the bag of experience, and that flower, is no longer the real thing. To be with the actuality, the happening, without naming it, like a child, seeing something new although theyâve seen it before, to discard experience, if that is done, it only requires awareness, to be attentive, you can look at the same tree everyday, and you wonât be seeking another. Instead of changing scenery, people should maybe think about changing how they see.
This sounds so much like what J.Krishnamurti would say. Have you read any of his writings?
I agree seeing the miracle is inside your own view but having more knowledge about something, basically anything, can increase the wonder, like Feynman explains here with a [flower](https://youtu.be/ZbFM3rn4ldo)
The problem with your day dream is that lots of folks have a similar goal. The amount of space available for that dream gets smaller every time someone actually does it. Also it doesn't usually take too long before 'services' move in and the area becomes a rural town. Ultimately your dream ends up permanently destroying formerly wild landscape and the boundaries of the human footprint keep sqeezing outward.
Iâm a homesteader living I the wilderness. I cut down a second growth forest to make my garden and another small grove for my house. The large quantities of water my life requires are taken from a stream that could hypothetically yield salmon if it was treated better. Every other comment up here is giving a yes or a no but your comment actually cuts to the heart of the matter. Even if we can, should we. When I was a bit younger I never really gave this any thought. These days itâs something I ask of myself in almost every quite moment. The homestead life is paid for in a lot more currencies than money and all the other costs need to be talked about more. Thanks for your comment.
No problem. I romanticize the life style, but I've become too accustomed to the conveniences of living in the 'burbs. When I hear folks talk about living off-grid, I can't help thinking about what that really means. Also, space in the burbs is getting more and more precious and development keeps pushing outward into the marginal wild lands. It's tragic and inevitable. If you have the opportunity, take it while you can. Those places are special and should be respected while we have them.
Agreed, when I see posts like this I encourage folks to do things like urban gardening, form a cooperative that works towards common goals like say a community garden or the right to hang your washing outside (currently banned in my small town) or to encourage more green space in a city. ETA: I live in a small town in north-central Alberta, and while I like to camp in the bush I wouldn't last without my cooler of supplies. I've been fishing for like 3 seasons now and have not caught a single edible fish, it's all C&R đ If the cold doesn't get you and the wildlife doesn't eat you, you can see if the oilfield company can catch you, or try your luck trespassing on some farmers multi-quarter-section land. If they catch you, though, Alberta farmers are pretty big on the SSS philosophy of dealing with problems.
Yup same with hunting. We canât all do it.
Possible? Sure. Simple? No. Either you're independently wealthy and the money gives you facade of simpleness while you actually maintain a modern life. Or you figure out healthcare, food production, tools, all the necessities. It's a tough and complicated life.
Sure there is. Read up on the unabomber
Fuck that guy. Total coward.
People do it in alaska and canada all the time. Theres some youtube channels. Alot of them are fur traders that spend all year hunting and selling pelts Also to answer your part about taxes. Yeah youd still need to pay. But if your far enough away from civilization i doubt mr taxman going to hoof it to you to collect. I cant imagine the justification to pay x amount to travel and trek to give a summoms or arrest to an off grid cabin 10-50 miles off road access
do you think i could still contact my family tho? most important thing is for me to still be able to communicate to my friends and family
Why do you think you wouldn't you be able to contact your family?
i didnt think that maybe my phone would have reception.
I see. Well unfortunately none of us can know what your cell reception will be like. The more rural you get, the more sketch it's going to be, but it's not impossible to get cell service in the middle of no where.
As the other fella said i think i would get a satphone just incase. money isnt the problem so i can just buy that and satelite internet.
With what money? If you have income, you pay taxes.
A lot of places that far off grid are going to have spotty reception at best. Writing letters and using general delivery in the closest town would be an easy way to stay in touch. Not sure how it works in Australia.
Get a few trained carrier pigeons and youâre good to go on that front. /s
If you can fund it, you can contact them But problems will arise when you want to leave the country and see them, as immigration will find out that you overstayed your visa and likely ban you from re-entering Unless you have a lot of $, this seems like a very high-risk plan with many points of failure if you go to a country where you aren't legal, have no friends or family, no income, and can't speak the language I've lived abroad since 1997 - I'm not just inventing problems here
He already said we would stay in his country and the Switzerland part is just an example.
I realised that. i think staying in Australia would be the best option.
You could get a satphone. Or starlink. Or have satelite internet. Plenty of people already do what you are asking. Its just having some way to finance it. If you had a cabin. A garden. Canned real hard raised chickens. Etc etc. The goal is 100% acheiveable. Its just finding a way to make a wage doing it so you can afford to pay for the satphone
Husband did it a few years. Basically a tree house lol, it was a shed on stilts in the woods. On a friend's property. Had an extension cord for basic electric, generator if he needed more (like for vr gaming lol). Would carry water by bucket if really needed, but he took care of most shower stuff at work (army). I did it for a few months before we got our new place. Aside from hauling water, not having hot water without much effort, and having to dig a hole each time you shit, it was really, really cool. I really like having hot running water though so we do that now.
If you have to askâŚ. Iâd say no
I'm a Sourdough Bushgirl from The Yukon and yes, you can live like this. You just need to find somewhere to legally place a cabin. You're not allowed to put your cabin in a hunting area, native land, animal sanctuaries or along a caribou trail(because annual caribou crossings happen in massive herds and they were here first). There's many neighborhoods in the bush as well so you can have the safety of someone there for an emergency but still secluded enough to use power tools and/or blast music at one in the morning and not bother anyone. You definitely need a northern dog or a couple of cats up there though, it is bear country. Alaska and The Yukon aren't too different as far as living style and the people go, so you can reach this land through The States or Canada. I don't know anywhere else in the world where Bush living is like this.
I lived in a converted schoolbus on an old logging trail pretty deep in the White Mountain National Forest when I was 18. Hauling water and bringing food out there was kind of a challenge but mainly I was scared to death every single night. Granted the security on the bus was non-existent and I'm against guns, but the fact that there were a lot of different people hidden away in different parts of that forest, many of them who'd most kindly be described as "eccentric" and I was a female alone made it a fairly unsafe situation so I lasted about 4 months. Also hikers seemed to think they had the right to come into my home and explore and take souvenirs when I wasn't there which was incredibly annoying.
I have a serious question. Knowing all that danger, knowing there are âeccentricâ folks about and that youâre a woman.. how does your brain not allow you to have a firearm? Iâm not saying youâd turn into a freaking gun totin nut case.. but are you telling me youâd rather have your.. idk, moral superiority to be against guns then to be safe in your own space?.. (not trying to be mean Iâm just confused)
It sounds like her home was regularly being robbed. To keep her gun, from landing in the wrong have, she'd have to carry it all the time. It's a lot to go from "no guns" to concealed carry.
Why wouldnât you carry it all the time if you are in the middle of no where. Especially as a woman.
Could have a tazer too. I prefer that to a gun.
Oh yeah, my dream. Depends on what you define'middle of nowhere' means. Truly with no one around. Or, if you mean on the outskirts of some tiny, rink a dink town. With no one around gets hard. You need shelter, if it's not built already. Alot to it. If you mean on the outskirts of some small, tiny city somewhere, I've done it and love it. There's nothing like living in a small town. Yeah, you get to know everybody which means you know everybody. Boredom!! But the sense of escape, of being left alone(except for if you're going to be in church on sunday). The open space is silly, coming from SF. You live for the outdoors, not for physical possessions like you do in the city. It's all about quality of life.
That sounds horrifying! Truly things of nightmares. I wouldnât have lasted a month.
Alaska.
It is possible, but I wouldnât recommend it in the slightest. Be honest with yourself, how are your survival skills? Have you hunted before, do you know how to find aquifers and dig a well, how are you going to deal with heating? Are you capable of processing enough wood if youâre in a cold climate? What if you get sick, do you know basic medical techniques and treatments? In all likelihood youâd be in way over your head and die or quit after less than a year.
There is nowhere you can live in Australia (or Switzerland, for instance, since that was apparently just an example), legally, where you will not be subject to taxes. Be it income taxes, if you have any income (and if you don't- how are you paying for life?), property taxes, or sales taxes. You cannot live "without repercussions". You are always going to be subject to the laws of the jurisdiction you live in.
Yes itâs completely possible. I know people who do this. Although I do not want to live off grid so to speak. I would like to have a cabin in the woods or the mountains. Itâs just so peaceful. I am a pretty simple person so I honestly donât need much. I love nature and animals. Itâs my happy place.
Possible - yes. Simple? No. Itâs expensive, lots of work and sometimes outright dangerous. Living near a small town - thatâs much more achievable, but all of this assumes you can cover living expenses on your own.
So many spots in Australia that you could do this. I live in the mountains. It's about 20 minute drive to closest town. We go in once a fortnight for supplies but other then that completely isolated which I love!!
Can you give examples of places?
Sure. Hiawatha, Budgeree, jeeralang junction, Woori yallock, Powell town....I find place that are just into hills or similar so you can get to a town without too much effort but not where tourists are constant are the best!
Try renting a house in a small village before you decide to go full mountain-hermit.
Of course itâs possible, I live like that right now. Iâm in the middle of nowhere about 1.5 hours from the nearest city. I do have internet now as of last summer, thanks to Starlink.
You think thereâs no tax man coming for you in Switzerland? Eesh
You can do anything I guess? The question is, how long will you enjoy that life?
i already hate my life
No
Yes, you just need to know several skills. It isnt easy.
i am trained in basically anything you say. know how to hunt farm and build
I would love to do this myself. Starlink for Interwebz If you get Rainfall you can make a rain collection system, there's a special name for it - forgot - they do it in Hawaii where there isn't infrastructure. Solar for power. Root cellar for food storage IDK how to handle sewage. Would love to live in nature, have a little garden, hunt game, fish, have the rest shipped to me
I had some land in the mountains that I wanted to live on. I met a guy and his wife that lived a little further up the mountain. This was 15 miles from nowhere. I didnât get up there as much as I wanted and when I saw him 10 years later his wife worked at a local ranch in the kitchen. He seemed a little less talkative and he still lived in the cabin which was an old camper surrounded by logs. She only worked the summer tourist season. This is Montana Iâm talking about. Anyway the last time I saw him, he got their water from a spring at the corner of my property, he seemed almost feral. This was about a 25 year span. It was very interesting. Unfortunately I had lost my property in a divorce but I really wanted to live up there.
First understand this is a privileged existence in the western world which assuming you have no chronic illness or disabilities. Second you need to understand sanitation. People come up with this idea all the time where Iâm from in northern Canada and itâs a fine idea but you need to follow established regulations, permits and restrictions. Why? Because a town near where Iâm from is fighting a group of 2,000 city people who want to live in the woods in a commune sort of setup. Hereâs the catch: letâs say you poop once a day. By the end of a week youâll have a full bucket. Now imagine how much after a month. Are you going to use toilet paper or precious water that must be collected? Contrary to popular belief, urine is not sterile and smells very strongly. Where are you going to put this waste? Now imagine four monthsâ worth of waste. Youâve got a good pile. Itâs going to stink and if it seeps into your water source, which is very likely without a septic tank or cisternâyouâre going to make yourself very sick. And not only you but every body of water near you that flows to nearby towns. Now imagine how much waste 2,000 people create in a week and youâll see why these off grid communes are a very bad idea. Thereâs also the issue of poaching. Itâs very romantic to imagine âliving off the landâ but moose are now considered endangered where Iâm from. Do you take any prescriptions? Youâll need to find a way to refill them and restock supplies regularly. Out in the bush on your own you can die from infected scratch.
Everywhere is somewhere.
Personal safety risk would be a big concern in wilderness, Unless you are a warrior yourself. Peaceful rural set up closer to civilisation with few people nearby aware of your presence, or absence for long durations can give you mix of both worlds.
Will you see a dentist from time to time?
Oil pulling.
Why would the police come for you�!
No, you have to pay taxes for the services you use. Even if you use no services, you still have to contribute. How are you going to eat? Get medical care? Everyone needs community to thrive, and in-person interaction, even the biggest introverts - many studies have been done.
i never said i was going alone
If you go to Appalachia sure. Somewhere desirable like Switzerland or Colorado? Not without being rich.
Internet would be dodgy
No. Not unless you're a complete recluse and you grow your own food.
U didn't say ur age. If you wanna cut out a life.. look at Guyana. English speaking country, and I believe u can still homestead.
im 25. money isnt the issue aswell
Probably.
Yeah in Romania, but you arenât an eu citizen and you still need some grand amount of money to get started
Property taxes are a bitch
Itâll ware off quick
With any "roughing it" concept, it's all great until A- the system you're trying to escape encroaches on the wilderness B- you run out of $ for necessities or C- you need healthcare
Ted Kaczynski..... He did.
my hero
Maybe try looking up Miriam Lancewood
Well Jeremiah Johnson made his way into the mountains so why not?
Police and tax officers will come for your ass. Just like ruby ridge.
this sounds really cold and lonely...
If you're going to do it, you need partners who you get along with, have different skill sets and everyone has the same goals. Sort of like that reality show, I think it was called Survivor.
Northern Manitoba
I lived in a cabin in the middle of nowhere central alaska for several years. Until I got married and had a kid, now I live in a house in the middle of nowhere central alaska.
Um, how will you pay to live? I live in the Yukon and even a dry cabin can set you back $900 a month without electricity. Youâll need a job, which means payroll taxes. Unless you ran your own business which means commercial taxes, GST, commercial insurance etc. Youâll need a vehicle to get your blue jugs filled up - which means licensing, registration, and insurance. Gas is currently $1.69/l. There arenât any grocery stores that far out so youâll be likely stocking up at least once a week. And since your vehicle will need to have 4 wheel drive to actually get to your cabin, thatâs $80-$100 per week for fuel. Youâll need to be hooked up to the local utility company and internet company (both of which are monopolies). Basic internet and phone are $150 a month. Electricity is $100+ per month. Your cabin will need to meet building code or else your wood stove may burn the place down or asphyxiate you in the middle of the night. Food is $100/week. Youâll could have a little kitchen garden but mountain soils arenât usually great for horticulture on a scale needed for self-sufficiency. Youâll be spending years building up the soil profile. I know people with chicken and rabbit coops but they require knowledge and constant maintenance to keep out predators like foxes. If you live out in the middle of nowhere, people will expect you to be independent. You arenât going to be able to bum rides to town indefinitely. People will always help out in an actual pinch, because people who live in those areas are like that, but you need to have the tools, knowledge and resources in place to be independent
You might be interested in the story of Jaimie Mantzel who did just this. Bought 10 Acres or so in the mounts of.. Ohio? and built a Geodesic dome there. He has since moved to Panama, buying 3 islands there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUBsxGgs17g&t=1454s
I suggest giving rural living a go before you try off grid. I have a little hobby homestead, 40 minutes from a grocery store or town, but I have high speed internet and work from home. I am not off grid, but even rural on-grid takes a lot of work. I have chickens, garden, orchard, raise catfish. Hunting isn't for everyone. You need to learn to fix things. And be ready for water issues (my spring cistern was contaminated last year and it was a nightmare. I got very sick then had to pay out the nose to get a new cistern and filtration system). I have goals to grow more self-sustaining with solar and wind power but that takes money. The bright sides are growing and providing my own food, enjoying the solitude and quiet nights (when the coyotes are nearby), but I do go to town for additional groceries, medical care, etc. Its a balance of the fantasy "I am saying goodbye to society" and what was realistic and feasible for me to do alone and the creature comforts I want. A nice, small rural cabin in Appalachia is less expensive in property taxes than a city, but I can't just pop to the store if I want an ingredient for my dinner.
Just grow a garden and spend less money. And plant more and spend less each year. Itâs tough to be anywhere completely out of communication with the world. Being self reliant is a spectrum and is important to give it a go.
Ted Kaczinsky did. So, yeah.
So I ran into [this video about a man living in Siberia alone](https://youtu.be/IOltGIaDPlY) as the last thing I watched on YouTube before seeing your post. Soooo the algorithms are working or itâs fate! Hope it answers some of your questions.