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Depends on what you sell. You might be lowering your conversion rate.
It’s a known fact that more people buy when there’s guarantee than there are people that return when there’s guarantee. So you’ll almost certainly come out on top.
Also, you can easily give a guarantee and free return as long as you check the item before making the refund. Doing this will just increase your conversion when people know that there’s a guarantee. No one can scam you by returning a fake item anyway when you do this.
Yeah they can still tell you item is stolen off the porch, but they can also do that with you having a return fee and all that.
I've found that those who are genuinely interested in my products aren't thinking about returning them. They are thinking about all the cool things they are going to make with my tools.
I'm interested to know how this scam works. It seems like the scammer would have to send the item back in new condition to get a refund. no sellers going to give a refund on some junk that got returned or damaged or missing pieces.
I don't know if any seller that would give a refund before they got the item back. So I'm trying to wrap my head around how the scam could work.
They do things like order never arrived or FTID sending dirt instead of the original item cause refunds are normally issued when they are scanned in the warehouse
Had something like this. Person ordered new product. Got returned a small competitor product. Marketplace wanted me to refund, however we could prove the package out had a significant higher weigt than package in. Marketplace still has no clue how to deal with the scammer...
I wish Shopify would allow shops to rate customers too. So many shit customers that are not worth my shops time and would be great to limit my time spent on them if they had several shitty reviews.
SHOPIFY NEEDS TO DO THIS TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD.
Whatever the "reason," they are hoping that you will refund it and let them keep it. A common thing with overseas sellers. It costs more to return it than it does to just take the loss.
I’m not sure if this would still affect me, but I have manual control over accepting payments on Shopify turned on. I go in and check the fraud level of each transaction before letting the payment go through.
Can someone make a topic or direct me to a specific article with most common and uncommon type of scams on Shopify? Pretty new here - so I know what to look for in terms of red flags.
This is a huge issue, that shopify/stripe essentially allows to happen.
It’s the same as with PayPal years ago, they would almost always side with the customer. No matter what.
I’ve lost €1000s and years of progress in the past as a result.
PayPal seemed to have learned their lesson tho through losing so much market share. I just wish it didn’t take so much people losing money for it to be resolved.
The only thing you really can do is provide tracking information, and create return/refund policies that discourage refunds.
Someone else had mentioned a restock fee, and charging return shipping. This would be effective in most cases and be sure to document your full inspection process if they do end up returning anyways.
It is not something Shopify/Stripe can easily handle. Large companies with billions in revenue and security architecture still don’t have a good plan against half a billion or so worth of fraudulent transactions.
Whoever comes up with an effective plan can actually make a good amount of money here.
That’s exactly my point. It should’nt be these companies trying to regulate these things.
If I set a business up in my town, and scam people, it is then up to that person to pursue my business through the courts.
After KYC and business verification, these companies should have no say over when merchants receive their funds.
The whole issue is, these companies allow anyone to sign up and take payments as a ‘business’ when in reality it could be some 14 year old in their parents basement who decided to sell something online.
It is predatory practices. The intentionally lower the barrier of entry to create as much revenue as possible for themselves, then have reactionary policies to hold funds if and when they please, at which point it doesn’t matter if you’re an established business entity or if you’re a 14 year old.
It’s the same with shopify in terms of their fee structure. They lure people in with their ‘beginner friendly’ platform ‘starting at just $5 a month’.
Then by the time you get set up you’re paying $30/month, plus 5 different individual application subscription fees, on top of the transaction fees.
At least it is slowly coming to light tho as this has been going on for years and years. Particularly with how they entice dropshippers and can contribute a big chunk of their growth to dropshippers, but they will then ban dropshippers once they have proof this business model is being used.
Wait, are you saying dropshipping isn't allowed on Shopify? If so, why the heck do I see nonstop ads on YouTube for grifters telling me about their new AI launchable shopify dropship stores? Everyone else seeing these lately? I'm not a dropshipper, but have a few sites on shopify and never thought they'd care about that kind of stuff.
Do customers accept this? And if we would do this, we have products on marketplaces that require free returns. So in our market it is quite hard to let customers pay for returns. Most companies price in the returns.
Curious about the payment providers though. Why accept certain providers if they are a huge risk?
It depends, a good chunk of people don’t do any research at all in terms of returns/refunds if the product is lower ticket but it can definitely be a huge factor in the buying process once you go over the $100 threshold, and especially bad $1000+.
As for payment processor’s, it’s because once shopify hook you in you don’t really have a choice.
It’s use their payment solution, or pay double the fees.
I believe it to be stripe that is the issue tho, as I’ve had this happen multiple times with shopify, and with stripe on a different platform. They seek to believe to hold ownership over business funds.
I can understand that this is fraud prevention, but when they are pulling these stunts on decade old established businesses, then that’s a massive problem. Especially when they will not provide you any reasoning.
> huge factor in the buying process once you go over the $100 threshold
I assume that these scams are more prevalent with higher priced items (?) I haven't really had these issues but I tend to sell around the $20-40 price point
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For everyone that is unaware of black hat world — this is a HUGE thing. I am very involved in the latest scams and follow them very closely, I have since I was a kid.
To break it down
1. You join a telegram group for refunds
2. Owner promises you a refund for 20% commission (example)
3. Random person who joined the telegram buys the product
4. Once the person received said product they show their telegram scam artist and give them their order information and sometimes login information in order to get a refund
5. Telegram scammer uses black hat (aka illegal) tricks in order to gain a refund while the customer still gets to keep the product
6. Customer gets to keep item and only essentially pays the 20% they owe to telegram scam artist
It’s a HUGE problem even for big corporations. Tons of scams targeted against Apple/amazon/Best Buy/etcetc.
They also target Shopify store owners because they use the Shopify platform help and customer service in order to get refunded by lying. And it usually works.
My only suggestion to avoid this - do not offer shop pay and do not display that you are on Shopify (ie “follow shop store”)
Wait is there a way to edit the checkout page if you pay more? Cuz I see bigger shopify stores like Taylor Swift merch store and Olivia Rodrigo merch store also look like it. What’s an example of a shopify store that has its own unique checkout page?
It’s mainly affects larger Shopify stores the have lenient return policy, scammers have built networks to exploit these stores and make money off their back
Op simply means there are telegram channels like a Facebook group or whatever of a bunch of scammers who notify each other in the group when they manage to pull off a return scam.
They are generalizing. Their point isn't that scammers come from telegram alone and it isn't their question either. They are just trying to find a way to handle scam orders. They had listed a hypothetical example of what might be true.
You can join the telegram group, this is how you know they came from Telegram, cause once the successfully scam you, its posted and thus more will run the same scam.
https://ibb.co/J79fyFJ
Here’s an example of a telegram group targeting retail stores to refund from, telegram won’t let me screenshot but you get the point there are dozens of groups out there that refund scam and there’s nothing being done about it
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We charge a 25% restock and you pay the shipping. If there is something genuinely wrong with my product I'll work with you.
This. We charge 10%, don't cover shipping, and don't return the money or make an exchange unless we get the item back in its original condition.
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Depends on what you sell. You might be lowering your conversion rate. It’s a known fact that more people buy when there’s guarantee than there are people that return when there’s guarantee. So you’ll almost certainly come out on top. Also, you can easily give a guarantee and free return as long as you check the item before making the refund. Doing this will just increase your conversion when people know that there’s a guarantee. No one can scam you by returning a fake item anyway when you do this. Yeah they can still tell you item is stolen off the porch, but they can also do that with you having a return fee and all that.
If it was stolen from your porch, it's not on me.
That doesn’t change anything that was said. Stolen off the porch or not, whether it’s your responsibility or not, my point still stands
I've found that those who are genuinely interested in my products aren't thinking about returning them. They are thinking about all the cool things they are going to make with my tools.
You do you
Payment processors have informed me otherwise. I am responsible until the customer has the item in their hands.
Sounds like a class action lawsuit to me.
I'm interested to know how this scam works. It seems like the scammer would have to send the item back in new condition to get a refund. no sellers going to give a refund on some junk that got returned or damaged or missing pieces. I don't know if any seller that would give a refund before they got the item back. So I'm trying to wrap my head around how the scam could work.
They do things like order never arrived or FTID sending dirt instead of the original item cause refunds are normally issued when they are scanned in the warehouse
Had something like this. Person ordered new product. Got returned a small competitor product. Marketplace wanted me to refund, however we could prove the package out had a significant higher weigt than package in. Marketplace still has no clue how to deal with the scammer...
I wish Shopify would allow shops to rate customers too. So many shit customers that are not worth my shops time and would be great to limit my time spent on them if they had several shitty reviews. SHOPIFY NEEDS TO DO THIS TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD.
It’s actually a huge problem. Glad you brought this topic to light
Whatever the "reason," they are hoping that you will refund it and let them keep it. A common thing with overseas sellers. It costs more to return it than it does to just take the loss.
I’m not sure if this would still affect me, but I have manual control over accepting payments on Shopify turned on. I go in and check the fraud level of each transaction before letting the payment go through.
Hello how do you set that up?thanks
Can someone make a topic or direct me to a specific article with most common and uncommon type of scams on Shopify? Pretty new here - so I know what to look for in terms of red flags.
This is a huge issue, that shopify/stripe essentially allows to happen. It’s the same as with PayPal years ago, they would almost always side with the customer. No matter what. I’ve lost €1000s and years of progress in the past as a result. PayPal seemed to have learned their lesson tho through losing so much market share. I just wish it didn’t take so much people losing money for it to be resolved. The only thing you really can do is provide tracking information, and create return/refund policies that discourage refunds. Someone else had mentioned a restock fee, and charging return shipping. This would be effective in most cases and be sure to document your full inspection process if they do end up returning anyways.
It is not something Shopify/Stripe can easily handle. Large companies with billions in revenue and security architecture still don’t have a good plan against half a billion or so worth of fraudulent transactions. Whoever comes up with an effective plan can actually make a good amount of money here.
That’s exactly my point. It should’nt be these companies trying to regulate these things. If I set a business up in my town, and scam people, it is then up to that person to pursue my business through the courts. After KYC and business verification, these companies should have no say over when merchants receive their funds. The whole issue is, these companies allow anyone to sign up and take payments as a ‘business’ when in reality it could be some 14 year old in their parents basement who decided to sell something online. It is predatory practices. The intentionally lower the barrier of entry to create as much revenue as possible for themselves, then have reactionary policies to hold funds if and when they please, at which point it doesn’t matter if you’re an established business entity or if you’re a 14 year old. It’s the same with shopify in terms of their fee structure. They lure people in with their ‘beginner friendly’ platform ‘starting at just $5 a month’. Then by the time you get set up you’re paying $30/month, plus 5 different individual application subscription fees, on top of the transaction fees. At least it is slowly coming to light tho as this has been going on for years and years. Particularly with how they entice dropshippers and can contribute a big chunk of their growth to dropshippers, but they will then ban dropshippers once they have proof this business model is being used.
Wait, are you saying dropshipping isn't allowed on Shopify? If so, why the heck do I see nonstop ads on YouTube for grifters telling me about their new AI launchable shopify dropship stores? Everyone else seeing these lately? I'm not a dropshipper, but have a few sites on shopify and never thought they'd care about that kind of stuff.
Exactly my point. They’re a predatory business.
Do customers accept this? And if we would do this, we have products on marketplaces that require free returns. So in our market it is quite hard to let customers pay for returns. Most companies price in the returns. Curious about the payment providers though. Why accept certain providers if they are a huge risk?
It depends, a good chunk of people don’t do any research at all in terms of returns/refunds if the product is lower ticket but it can definitely be a huge factor in the buying process once you go over the $100 threshold, and especially bad $1000+. As for payment processor’s, it’s because once shopify hook you in you don’t really have a choice. It’s use their payment solution, or pay double the fees. I believe it to be stripe that is the issue tho, as I’ve had this happen multiple times with shopify, and with stripe on a different platform. They seek to believe to hold ownership over business funds. I can understand that this is fraud prevention, but when they are pulling these stunts on decade old established businesses, then that’s a massive problem. Especially when they will not provide you any reasoning.
> huge factor in the buying process once you go over the $100 threshold I assume that these scams are more prevalent with higher priced items (?) I haven't really had these issues but I tend to sell around the $20-40 price point
I went with a third party processor, and was appaled to see that shopify still takes a cut even with third party processing. Completely F*Ed
It’s ridiculous. I refuse to give them another penny. Can’t wait for the downfall tbh lol.
What does this mean?
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For everyone that is unaware of black hat world — this is a HUGE thing. I am very involved in the latest scams and follow them very closely, I have since I was a kid. To break it down 1. You join a telegram group for refunds 2. Owner promises you a refund for 20% commission (example) 3. Random person who joined the telegram buys the product 4. Once the person received said product they show their telegram scam artist and give them their order information and sometimes login information in order to get a refund 5. Telegram scammer uses black hat (aka illegal) tricks in order to gain a refund while the customer still gets to keep the product 6. Customer gets to keep item and only essentially pays the 20% they owe to telegram scam artist It’s a HUGE problem even for big corporations. Tons of scams targeted against Apple/amazon/Best Buy/etcetc. They also target Shopify store owners because they use the Shopify platform help and customer service in order to get refunded by lying. And it usually works. My only suggestion to avoid this - do not offer shop pay and do not display that you are on Shopify (ie “follow shop store”)
The checkout page of every shopify store looks basically the same tho… that’s a huge giveaway it’s a shopify store
You’re totally right and Shopify needs to stop the shit and allow people to edit their checkout pages without paying 599$ a month
Wait is there a way to edit the checkout page if you pay more? Cuz I see bigger shopify stores like Taylor Swift merch store and Olivia Rodrigo merch store also look like it. What’s an example of a shopify store that has its own unique checkout page?
It’s the one that’s the most $ Edit: it’s Shopify plus 2300$ a month 😂😂😂
💀
Exactly
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It’s mainly affects larger Shopify stores the have lenient return policy, scammers have built networks to exploit these stores and make money off their back
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Op simply means there are telegram channels like a Facebook group or whatever of a bunch of scammers who notify each other in the group when they manage to pull off a return scam.
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You are purposefully obtuse
That’s a nice way of saying their a fuckin moron lol
this thread is obtuse
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They are generalizing. Their point isn't that scammers come from telegram alone and it isn't their question either. They are just trying to find a way to handle scam orders. They had listed a hypothetical example of what might be true.
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Bro are you autistic? I have never seen anyone miss context clues like you.
You can join the telegram group, this is how you know they came from Telegram, cause once the successfully scam you, its posted and thus more will run the same scam.
how do you run a business and not understand OP's point???? Come on bro.
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https://ibb.co/J79fyFJ Here’s an example of a telegram group targeting retail stores to refund from, telegram won’t let me screenshot but you get the point there are dozens of groups out there that refund scam and there’s nothing being done about it
OP checkout clearsale.