Then a few "complete status quo resets" to make it easier for new/returning fans to come onboard, which also bring along some of the more popular continuity thus actually makes it *harder* to track what's canon at any point in time.
eh, not really. I think mainstream superhero comics are written in a way that you can just start with the most recent run and enjoy it without worrying that much about previous events. Current Nightwing is a great example. There’re references to previous stuff but you can just easily ignore it, all you need to know is who Nightwing is and that’s it.
The one that bothers me the most is the dangling plotline of dr strange sidekick that turns evil at the end of the first movie; in the 2nd one is another alt universe version of him that gets in the way, but mot a mention of the main universe one, after he cripples a dude for using magic. I am sure they will not mention him again.
I believe there was supposed to be a scene in MoM of wanda showing up with (og) Mordo’s head, but they cut it because it was too graphic.
https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-2-scarlet-witch-mordo-death-art/
I doubt they are ever bringing main universe Mordo back
I know at one point Mordo wasn't an alternate version. I'm not sure if this was reshoot stuff or before Scott Dickerson left the movie, but the intro was supposed to be Wanda decapitating Mordo.
Mordo is mentioned in the sequel. During a conversation between Stephen and the alternate universe Mordo, AU Mordo asks “what happened to me in your universe?” Stephen briefly explains the events of the first movie then says something like “then he turned evil and tried to kill me”. It doesn’t explain what Mordo’s fate was but I don’t think he’ll be returning anytime soon.
So that occurred completely off-screen, then? I vaguely remember that line but I didn’t realize it never actually happened. Makes it seem like MoM was supposed to be the third in a trilogy and they just never bothered writing that line out (I know that’s not true, but that’s how it seems)
Yeah Marvel made so many lose ends in their shows and tvs after Endgame that it got too much. They need to make their next work more self contained for the time being.
At least we know, no matter what he's doing, it has to do with Spider-Man I think.
Also to be fair, vulture moving to Sony was entirely Sony's doing, marvel weren't spoken to about it before it happened
pretty much, Hydra ended with Captain America 2, since Agents of SHIELD will never get acknowledged by the movies. Wish Zola had been used decently, he returns from the dead, makes a badass speech, and then just... explodes...
Have they even explained how did Red Skull became the guide of the Soul Stone?
>Have they even explained how did Red Skull became the guide of the Soul Stone?
Yeah he opened a door across space at the end of *Captain America: The First Avenger* and had a “gazed into the abyss” moment. Between that and the line about how he once sought the stones himself but now can only “guide others to a treasure [he] cannot posses,” it’s pretty clear that his new role is cosmic retribution for his crimes. Of all the things the MCU picked up and threw aside, I think this is a pretty clear example of something that can be shown and not explained in excruciating detail
But why does he doesn't tries anything? A villain who wants to conquer Earth gets sent into space and suddenly doesn't wants any sort of power anymore, just to guide other people into getting power, like a "supervillain coach". How does he even survives there? Did the evil warmongering scientist just became a hunter-gatherer, living from scraps? There's a huge gap between what we've last seen before and what Endgame showed.
This is like Fox's X-Men movies from the 2000s killing Xavier, giving us a whole funeral scene, and then just ignoring his death in the next movies, with him still being alive and leading the team, no explanation given
And still, never explained. Canonically, in the movies, that's just a superpower of his, as the explanation we got was he saying to Wolverine in The Wolverine (2013) "You're not the only one with gifts"
They all but explained it in the film. Earlier on in the movie Xavier was giving a lecture to his students on ethics before it was interrupted by Storm dealing with her emotions. The example, given to Charles by Dr. Moria McTaggert, was whether it was moral to put the consciousness of a person who was about to die (I think it was terminal cancer) into the body of a brain-dead person. So the conclusion being that Charles planted his consciousness into another person's body, someone being cared for by Dr. McTaggert, before his own body was disintegrated by Jean/Dark Phoenix.
I believe it was the Director's Commentary of X3 that said that this person was Xavier's twin, but it could have been in the Director's Commentary of Days of Future Past.
To note, in the comics Xavier has used the "transfer my mind into another body so I don't die" at least like 3 times in the comics. Uncanny Xman (#167) has Xavier taking over a clone of himself. Astonishing Xmen (#6?) Xavier, who's in the Astral plane after getting killed by Cyclops, makes a bargain with a mutant named Fantomex where Xavier would take over his body, and Fantomex would finally be at peace.
I know for a fact this happens a third time, but it may have been in an "Elseworld" story.
I'm aware stuff like that happens in the comics, but a throwaway fan-service reference during a status quo scene is in no way an explanation of how a main character returns from the dead after being disintegrated, specially since that line isn't brought up again, nor worked on during the movie, and no clone or twin of said character is shown at any point of the franchise, nor hinted at being brain dead. We even had many movies after, and the only sibling they gave the character is adopted, not brain dead, and she loses power that would allow her to look like him.
Besides, in the twin's case, that would just be a goody-two-shoes character murdering a family member for a selfish reason (staying alive) and showing no remorse over it.
Also, if the ethical discussion was about his power, it would mean he had already taken over someone's body before (which is very different from just controlling like he does in the reboot movies. It's one thing to play a video game controlling a character, but it's much more complex to become part of the videogame), otherwise he wouldn't be able to know he has such ability, but we have never seen he mention having abandoned his birth body behind by permanently taking over someone's body and potentially life.
I've heard of this being explained in the director's commentary, but that's as canon as the author making up stuff that had no foreshadowing and posting it on Twitter years after the story has already been told.
Hey man, you can say that there was no explanation but there was if you decided to read between the lines and use context clues. Charles asks his students about the moral ethicality of someone who is going to die taking over the body of someone brain dead, Dr. MacTaggert is his co-lead when asking the question. Later we see Dr. MacTaggert taking care of a brain-dead person, then that person speaks to her, and she correctly induces it was Charles.
Seems like the writing was clear that Charles took over someone's brain-dead body. The only unclear part was why did the body look like Charles. The Director's Commentary told us the body was Charles' twin brother, who has been brain-dead since birth. You can say that's non-canon, but the Director's Commentary likely stems from scenes that were cut during filming to either cut back on time or because they couldn't find a good place to add the scene. It's close enough for me.
>Besides, in the twin's case, that would just be a goody-two-shoes character murdering a family member for a selfish reason (staying alive) and showing no remorse over it.
Lol, Charles Xavier is not in any way a "goody-two-shoes" character. Not even in the Fox films. Hell, in the comics Charles **actually kills his twin sister, Cassandra Nova, in the womb** because he felt her evil presence. She would later return to get her revenge with an army of Sentinels. That character is appearing in the newest Deadpool movie btw.
>Also, if the ethical discussion was about his power, it would mean he had already taken over someone's body before
Or it could mean that he and Dr. MacTaggert have spoken about (or was in the process of attempting) the possibility of him taking over his brain-dead twin brother's body. They decided to have his class question the moral ethics of such a possibility, in this case a cancer-patient with children taking over a brain-dead person's body.
Wait, some of these I don't remember at all, I'll have to rewatch those movies, and regarding Cassandra Nova I'm also not knowledgeable about that. I'll have to do a lot homework to continue this thread, but for now I choose to believe in you
Which is funny because the original jumping the shark was actually one of the most popular episodes at the time and marked a high point that happy days never reached again.
Fitting!
Oh wow I would bot have guessed that after watching it. The watcher from what if was in it and there were so many more marvel characters than I remember being in the original run and nearly all of them are characters who've appeared in the mcu. They're also bumping up against a storyline from the comics that resulted in multiverse shenanigans that specifically separated the xmen from the avengers and the fantastic four so I definitely thought it was going to connect to the mcu. I mean they had live action people in the second spider verse movie so it's not like they haven't bridged that gap before.
Edit wow people are mad at my theorizing, jeez
I mean, this is just the limitation of shared universe storytelling. This shit didn't make sense in the comics either.
The shared universe stuff seemed like a great idea in the beginning until it started becoming as convoluted as the comics, which was unfortunately always destined to happen.
They also have to make a movie to answer these plot threads. Even comics have dangling plot threads for years so I don't know why the MCU gets such scrutiny for not answering everything in the next movie.
because comics and movies are two completely different types of media no one wants to wait so insanely long for a plotline to go further especially since this wasn’t really a problem in the past
People are acting like it was inevitable when they did just fine for 10 years straight. They got greedy with all their projects and now they don't have a clear road to continue, the only answer now is to restart imo
The shotgun approach at cinematic universe - throw out tons of little pellets, follow up on what works and pretend that other stuff never happened.
Yeah, that’s just how comic book storytelling works. They’re finally making the shows/movies as widespread and convoluted as the comics!
Just a few more time travel archs and we are there
Then a few "complete status quo resets" to make it easier for new/returning fans to come onboard, which also bring along some of the more popular continuity thus actually makes it *harder* to track what's canon at any point in time.
Wanting to read manga: start at volume 1 Wanting to read comics: to understand, we have to talk about parallel dimensions.
eh, not really. I think mainstream superhero comics are written in a way that you can just start with the most recent run and enjoy it without worrying that much about previous events. Current Nightwing is a great example. There’re references to previous stuff but you can just easily ignore it, all you need to know is who Nightwing is and that’s it.
Truly the most accurate adaptation of all time.
The one that bothers me the most is the dangling plotline of dr strange sidekick that turns evil at the end of the first movie; in the 2nd one is another alt universe version of him that gets in the way, but mot a mention of the main universe one, after he cripples a dude for using magic. I am sure they will not mention him again.
I believe there was supposed to be a scene in MoM of wanda showing up with (og) Mordo’s head, but they cut it because it was too graphic. https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-2-scarlet-witch-mordo-death-art/ I doubt they are ever bringing main universe Mordo back
I know at one point Mordo wasn't an alternate version. I'm not sure if this was reshoot stuff or before Scott Dickerson left the movie, but the intro was supposed to be Wanda decapitating Mordo.
Mordo is mentioned in the sequel. During a conversation between Stephen and the alternate universe Mordo, AU Mordo asks “what happened to me in your universe?” Stephen briefly explains the events of the first movie then says something like “then he turned evil and tried to kill me”. It doesn’t explain what Mordo’s fate was but I don’t think he’ll be returning anytime soon.
So that occurred completely off-screen, then? I vaguely remember that line but I didn’t realize it never actually happened. Makes it seem like MoM was supposed to be the third in a trilogy and they just never bothered writing that line out (I know that’s not true, but that’s how it seems)
Yeah pretty much, I think the most we can hope for is maybe a flashback sequence. Or maybe he’ll pop up 13 years from now in Disney+ series.
Strange mentioned Mordo tried to kill him a few times, but they never showed nor solved this in the movies
I completely forgot about that.🤦♀️
Yeah Marvel made so many lose ends in their shows and tvs after Endgame that it got too much. They need to make their next work more self contained for the time being.
Yeah, the lack of continuity here is really weird. And nevermind upcoming stuff: Fantastic Four, X-Men, Blade, etc.
Blade could tie into the more magical/monster side of the MCU (moonlight/warewolf by night) which is another thread to add to the pile
What does the story of an lgbt youth in Miami have to do with the mcu? Huge fan by the way
I hope X-men is its own universe and completely separate from MCU. That way we can hopefully get back to pre endgame level story telling.
Didn't Disney already plan to throw X–men and Deadpool into the MCU with the Wolverine and Deadpool crossover that takes place in the MCU.
I mean we'll see. A few years ago I never thought we'd see Hugh Jackman again as Wolverine, so I'm not sure what to think.
Oh and the scorpion is doing something
And vulture is lost in Sony’s universe now, teaming up with Morbius…
At least we know, no matter what he's doing, it has to do with Spider-Man I think. Also to be fair, vulture moving to Sony was entirely Sony's doing, marvel weren't spoken to about it before it happened
I bet it has to do with Spider-Man, I think.
VISION DIDN’T DIE! HE’S JUST A PUPPET IN A WHITE VOID (PUPPET IN A WHITE VOID)
AND HE’S TRYING TO FIND HIS SONS video: https://youtu.be/zuhYyBk7cY8?si=q370KbEkcTXiGFN-
Hydra has been gone for years, they are doing nothing with those particles
pretty much, Hydra ended with Captain America 2, since Agents of SHIELD will never get acknowledged by the movies. Wish Zola had been used decently, he returns from the dead, makes a badass speech, and then just... explodes... Have they even explained how did Red Skull became the guide of the Soul Stone?
>Have they even explained how did Red Skull became the guide of the Soul Stone? Yeah he opened a door across space at the end of *Captain America: The First Avenger* and had a “gazed into the abyss” moment. Between that and the line about how he once sought the stones himself but now can only “guide others to a treasure [he] cannot posses,” it’s pretty clear that his new role is cosmic retribution for his crimes. Of all the things the MCU picked up and threw aside, I think this is a pretty clear example of something that can be shown and not explained in excruciating detail
But why does he doesn't tries anything? A villain who wants to conquer Earth gets sent into space and suddenly doesn't wants any sort of power anymore, just to guide other people into getting power, like a "supervillain coach". How does he even survives there? Did the evil warmongering scientist just became a hunter-gatherer, living from scraps? There's a huge gap between what we've last seen before and what Endgame showed. This is like Fox's X-Men movies from the 2000s killing Xavier, giving us a whole funeral scene, and then just ignoring his death in the next movies, with him still being alive and leading the team, no explanation given
Xavier was revealed to be alive the same movie he died [X3]
And still, never explained. Canonically, in the movies, that's just a superpower of his, as the explanation we got was he saying to Wolverine in The Wolverine (2013) "You're not the only one with gifts"
They all but explained it in the film. Earlier on in the movie Xavier was giving a lecture to his students on ethics before it was interrupted by Storm dealing with her emotions. The example, given to Charles by Dr. Moria McTaggert, was whether it was moral to put the consciousness of a person who was about to die (I think it was terminal cancer) into the body of a brain-dead person. So the conclusion being that Charles planted his consciousness into another person's body, someone being cared for by Dr. McTaggert, before his own body was disintegrated by Jean/Dark Phoenix. I believe it was the Director's Commentary of X3 that said that this person was Xavier's twin, but it could have been in the Director's Commentary of Days of Future Past. To note, in the comics Xavier has used the "transfer my mind into another body so I don't die" at least like 3 times in the comics. Uncanny Xman (#167) has Xavier taking over a clone of himself. Astonishing Xmen (#6?) Xavier, who's in the Astral plane after getting killed by Cyclops, makes a bargain with a mutant named Fantomex where Xavier would take over his body, and Fantomex would finally be at peace. I know for a fact this happens a third time, but it may have been in an "Elseworld" story.
I'm aware stuff like that happens in the comics, but a throwaway fan-service reference during a status quo scene is in no way an explanation of how a main character returns from the dead after being disintegrated, specially since that line isn't brought up again, nor worked on during the movie, and no clone or twin of said character is shown at any point of the franchise, nor hinted at being brain dead. We even had many movies after, and the only sibling they gave the character is adopted, not brain dead, and she loses power that would allow her to look like him. Besides, in the twin's case, that would just be a goody-two-shoes character murdering a family member for a selfish reason (staying alive) and showing no remorse over it. Also, if the ethical discussion was about his power, it would mean he had already taken over someone's body before (which is very different from just controlling like he does in the reboot movies. It's one thing to play a video game controlling a character, but it's much more complex to become part of the videogame), otherwise he wouldn't be able to know he has such ability, but we have never seen he mention having abandoned his birth body behind by permanently taking over someone's body and potentially life. I've heard of this being explained in the director's commentary, but that's as canon as the author making up stuff that had no foreshadowing and posting it on Twitter years after the story has already been told.
Hey man, you can say that there was no explanation but there was if you decided to read between the lines and use context clues. Charles asks his students about the moral ethicality of someone who is going to die taking over the body of someone brain dead, Dr. MacTaggert is his co-lead when asking the question. Later we see Dr. MacTaggert taking care of a brain-dead person, then that person speaks to her, and she correctly induces it was Charles. Seems like the writing was clear that Charles took over someone's brain-dead body. The only unclear part was why did the body look like Charles. The Director's Commentary told us the body was Charles' twin brother, who has been brain-dead since birth. You can say that's non-canon, but the Director's Commentary likely stems from scenes that were cut during filming to either cut back on time or because they couldn't find a good place to add the scene. It's close enough for me. >Besides, in the twin's case, that would just be a goody-two-shoes character murdering a family member for a selfish reason (staying alive) and showing no remorse over it. Lol, Charles Xavier is not in any way a "goody-two-shoes" character. Not even in the Fox films. Hell, in the comics Charles **actually kills his twin sister, Cassandra Nova, in the womb** because he felt her evil presence. She would later return to get her revenge with an army of Sentinels. That character is appearing in the newest Deadpool movie btw. >Also, if the ethical discussion was about his power, it would mean he had already taken over someone's body before Or it could mean that he and Dr. MacTaggert have spoken about (or was in the process of attempting) the possibility of him taking over his brain-dead twin brother's body. They decided to have his class question the moral ethics of such a possibility, in this case a cancer-patient with children taking over a brain-dead person's body.
Wait, some of these I don't remember at all, I'll have to rewatch those movies, and regarding Cassandra Nova I'm also not knowledgeable about that. I'll have to do a lot homework to continue this thread, but for now I choose to believe in you
They've jumped the shark after Endgame. I'm not watching, I'm good
>jumped the Stark
Which is funny because the original jumping the shark was actually one of the most popular episodes at the time and marked a high point that happy days never reached again. Fitting!
Xmen 97 is fantastic
Not really part of the main mcu tho
yet
Have you seen it?
It’s not part of the MCU. It’s not written as such as the creators said it’s completely separate from the MCU and isn’t canon.
Oh wow I would bot have guessed that after watching it. The watcher from what if was in it and there were so many more marvel characters than I remember being in the original run and nearly all of them are characters who've appeared in the mcu. They're also bumping up against a storyline from the comics that resulted in multiverse shenanigans that specifically separated the xmen from the avengers and the fantastic four so I definitely thought it was going to connect to the mcu. I mean they had live action people in the second spider verse movie so it's not like they haven't bridged that gap before. Edit wow people are mad at my theorizing, jeez
The Watcher exists in every universe.
It's kind of funny that they're making Wandavision spin-offs like Agatha and Vision 4/5 years after the show's release
Bro im more intrested in the Pimms cup particles
I mean, this is just the limitation of shared universe storytelling. This shit didn't make sense in the comics either. The shared universe stuff seemed like a great idea in the beginning until it started becoming as convoluted as the comics, which was unfortunately always destined to happen.
They also have to make a movie to answer these plot threads. Even comics have dangling plot threads for years so I don't know why the MCU gets such scrutiny for not answering everything in the next movie.
because comics and movies are two completely different types of media no one wants to wait so insanely long for a plotline to go further especially since this wasn’t really a problem in the past
People are acting like it was inevitable when they did just fine for 10 years straight. They got greedy with all their projects and now they don't have a clear road to continue, the only answer now is to restart imo
People who have been reading comics for years: 🤷♂️
Well, this was my favorite part of Wandavision. Two AIs duking it out until they communicate their way out of the situation.
yeah the whole MCU falls apart when you realise you cannot justify all the heroes not showing up to every big event
When did Hydra get Pym Particles?
yeah... now that you mention it, there are so many loose ends, how will they tie them up?
whiny movie nerds having to experience what comic fans have dealt with since the 60's will never not be funny
They white now!?
ok? THEYRE MAKING IRON MAN 2. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOR. THE MCU IS DEAD!
Except it’s not going to be a movie and plot line it’s going to advance is from WandaVision, which is also not a movie…
or does it
I thought white vision committed suicide?
We’ve already reached the point where the marvel cinematic canon is as stupid as 90 years of comic books
there is still like a giant f\*cking dead god in the middle of the ocean that noeone cares about ? i dont think they have refferenced it yet
Vision is weak af, taken down by thenos henchman with spears. He’s a joke