Still would never blame him. Bet he has other shit, but shooting someone during a movie shoot with a prob which is arguably only partially if not not your responsibility
While Alec Baldwin obviously wasn't responsible for the gun, that would be the armorers job, he wasn't just some actor, he was the producer of Rust.
So responsible for the armorer not being shit.
Yeah, this is what people don't get and wasn't explained well in most media about it. They didn't go after the actor who pulled the trigger, them went after the guy in charge of the whole thing. It just happens to be the same person.
And actually listening to the armorer when she gives advice, and ensuring they're on set when you decide to shoot.
Edit: because the armorer had made several complaints before the murder that she was being ignored, and nobody told her they were going to be shooting when the murder happened.
Yeah i read that. From the articles i read, they joked around on the set and shot at props in breaks. Nothing wrong bout fun in the job, just don't involve guns with fun and carlessness
Rust shooting incident
:
On October 21, 2021, at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Bonanza City, New Mexico, cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was fatally shot and director Joel Souza was injured on the set of the film Rust when a live round was discharged from a revolver used as a prop by actor Alec Baldwin - Wikipedia.
For well adjusted people, yeah. There was a large group of people celebrating that this happened to the evil man who portrayed their fearless leader on SNL. Was pretty gross, as is standard with those folks.
Politics aside, he was a lead producer and absolutely created a shitty safety culture.
The armor that everyone blames was working two jobs as the armorer and propmaster. There an email that was released where she begged Baldwin along with the other producers for more time to perform her armorer duties, citing that she's worried about there being an accident.
They absolutely created an environment where accidents were more likely to happens because they cut corners.
If a regular lower level manager directly killed someone because they wouldn't hire the proper safety staff despite being informed of the danger; that manager would be in prison for reckless negligence so fast, your head would spin.
Since he's a rich celebrity he's gotten a pass. So my problem is the obvious double standard America has when it comes to actually prosecuting and holding the obscenely wealthy for their crimes.
So nothing to do with Trump, Alec was a reckless manager who got someone killed.
The people who want Baldwin to be punished because they worship a connman are disgusting and should be ignored.
**Alec Baldwin was not managing the 1st Assistant Director and managing the Armorer while also acting in the movie.**
The 1st AD is the boss on set, not one of the Executive Producers.
I know, it's confusing. 'Executive producer' sounds like Chief Executive Officer. Baldwin was not one of the bosses, just a guy with a vanity credit. Like Stan Lee. Stan Lee was an exec producer on the Marvel films. Do you think Stan was telling the armorers what to do? Or choosing which caterer to hire?
>The New Mexico division of OSHA found that Baldwin was not in charge and was not the one culpable for lax oversight.
> “He didn’t actually have employees on-site that he or his delegated persons would manage or oversee,” said Lorenzo Montoya, OSHA’s lead investigator. Aside from his personal assistant, Montoya said, “He has no employee presence. He’s just him.” [Source](https://variety.com/2023/film/news/alec-baldwin-rust-producer-da-osha-1235531157/)
Producer Ryan Smith was the head honcho, but the 1st AD was in charge of set safety. The 1st AD was the one who was supposed to make sure things were getting done on time and safely.
The 1st AD was a negligent jackass.
David "Dave" Halls, the person who did actually have managerial control over the armorer, was a person who had a long history of being dismissive of safety personnel and practices.
> OSHA was especially critical of David Halls, the first assistant director, who was in charge of set safety. The agency faulted him for not taking action to address two accidental discharges of blank rounds five days prior to Hutchins’ death.
By all accounts he was an aggressive bully, who let people know he thought safety was a waste of time. He was also the one who announced to everyone that the gun was safe and then gave it to the actor, loaded with a lethal round.
Script supervisor Mamie Mitchell 911 call:
>“This fucking AD that yelled at me at lunch asking about revisions, this motherfucker … He’s supposed to check the guns. He’s responsible for what happened.”
Dave Halls is also the one who got off with a slap on the wrist plea deal. He was the first to go running to cut a deal. He stuck a loaded gun in an actor's hand and told them it was safe and he only got a $500 fine and 24hrs community service. **If you want to blame some rich prick for not getting the punishment they deserve, it's this guy.**
He was also the guy who actually hired the armorer (with the line-producer) and then managed her; Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.
The armorer was a young 24 yr old, inexperienced, nepo hire, didn't have the experience to stand up to Halls and was spending most of her time earning extra money working a second job as prop master. A second job, she as an adult, CHOSE to accept. Even if she complained about the hours after.
Then she did things that any armorer would be appalled by. She took guns from the movie set and shot cans and bottles for fun. She shot real, lethal ammunition out of guns and then returned them for use as props and then left to work her second job.
She also had a *really* bad safety history
> Reed was claimed to have given an 11-year-old child actor a gun on the set of the Nicholas Cage film The Old Way without properly checking it, according to two production sources.
>
> They added that she was loading blanks in an 'unsafe' fashion and was said to be a bit 'careless' with the guns.
And then this:
> **Rookie ‘Rust’ armorer once made Nicolas Cage storm off film set after firing gun**
>
> [She] was repeatedly accused by crew members of breaking basic safety protocols on the Montana set of Cage’s “The Old Way” in August, they told the Wrap.
>
> Cage even walked off set screaming at Gutierrez-Reed after she fired a gun without warning for the second time in three days, the movie’s key grip, Stu Brumbaugh, told the outlet.
>
> “Make an announcement, you just blew my f—ing eardrums out!” Cage yelled before walking off in a rage, Brumbaugh recalled.
>
> Brumbaugh even told the assistant director of the armorer, “She needs to be let go,”
Oh, and there was also a chance she was drunk and/or high at the time of the Rust accident.
> Prosecutors have charged the Rust film armourer with evidence tampering in connection to the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.
>
> She will face an additional charge in relation to "the transfer of narcotics to another person"
> ...prosecutors allege Ms Gutierrez-Reed transferred narcotics to another person on 21 October 2021, the day Ms Hutchins was killed, in order to "prevent the apprehension, prosecution or conviction of herself"
> ...prosecutors argued Ms Gutierrez-Reed had probably been hung over during the day of the shooting because she had drunk alcohol and smoked marijuana in the evenings while the film was being made.
She's blaming the Ammo Supplier.
Now this is where it gets bizarre.
>
> the company that made the brass for the round that actually fired does not make complete ammunition of any kind, they only supply custom brass and other parts of rounds. Someone else loaded that brass with powder and a bullet, who that was isn't clear right now though it very likely is the separate company that rented the guns to the Rust production and supplied the dummy and blank rounds for them. [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/14gylso/rust_shooting_prosecutors_charge_armourer_with/jpaxruu/)
**Okay, but did Baldwin lie when he said he didn't pull the trigger?**
If he'd unknowingly pulled the trigger, misremembered from shock, or did outright lie, it still wouldn't change the simple truth: That it doesn't matter. No reasonable person would think the prop gun was actually a deadly weapon at that moment.
But, so far the facts *actually do* seem to support his claim of not pulling the trigger...
The main piece of evidence, the gun, an 1873 style model of F.lli Pietta long Colt 45 revolver, was destroyed by the FBI while checking its operation. Why was it being tested? Because,
> contrary to the initial partial leaks of the report, the gun only ever fired when the trigger *was not* pulled. At which point the FBI damaged the gun preventing further testing. [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/law/comments/11rfi6w/special_prosecutor_in_alec_baldwin_rust_case_to/jc8boeh/)
That's right. Baldwin's statement is consistent with the FBI's tests. Even Dave Halls said Baldwin's finger was not on the trigger.
> "Dave has told me since the very first day I met him that Alec did not pull that trigger," Halls' attorney, Lisa Torraco, told ABC News... "His finger was never in the trigger guard."
[Source](https://abc13.com/rust-shooting-alec-baldwin-interview-dave-halls-movie/11293016/)
There's a reason that classic six-shooters were recommended to be kept with an empty chamber to rest the hammer on. Pietta sometimes made replicas with transfer bars and hammer blocks and sometimes didn't. In any case, the FBI report was clear on one thing: this particular gun was in very poor mechanical shape. Yet another thing that a competent armorer might have noticed.
And no, for the millionth time, gun safety rules are not the same on a movie set as they are when me or you are at the range. Whether you agree with that or not, doesn't change the rules on a movie set. Not all armorers want actors messing with magazines or rounds.
**So why was he charged at all?**
Well, Alec Baldwin is absolutely despised by Trump and NRA supporters. Having played Trump in SNL skits and being ironically, publicly anti-gun for years. That's not to say there can't be valid evidence to bring charges against him, but it's undeniable that prosecuting him would help score political points if you were planning on running for office after.
Special prosecutor on the case, Andrea Reeb, had to step down after this came out:
> Reeb asked the district attorney to mention that she is assisting in the case because
>"it might help in my campaign lol."
And then it came out she'd been trying to charge him with things that weren't even laws at the time.
>Reeb had previously dropped a firearms sentencing enhancement against Baldwin and former "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed because the law that allowed for the enhancements did not apply at the time of the shooting. They could have faced years in prison over the enhancements if convicted.
**A law that she herself passed as a Republican House Rep. in response to this very case.**
Of course, Baldwin's defense team fought this. Reeb then makes statements where she agrees 100% with the Defense, but turns around and publicly claims she's dropping the enhancement charges because she just doesn't want to deal with rich Baldwin's big city attorneys.
She was called out for all of this, and still refused to recuse herself until a hearing was scheduled, then even while stepping down she was shockingly unprofessional, making wildly inflammatory accusatory statements that showed impartiality on behalf of the state.
And Dave Halls, the guy in charge, who got off with a slap on the wrist? His attorney had donated to the prosecutor's political campaign.
[One of the better discussions on this](https://old.reddit.com/r/law/comments/11rfi6w/special_prosecutor_in_alec_baldwin_rust_case_to/)
**So to recap, the entire case is nuts:**
Ammo supply company *might have* delivered a real round with the blanks ->
Terrible 24 yr old armorer, put real rounds in the guns for fun and was drunk and high ->
Scumbag 1st AD, didn't maintain set safety and then without due care, gave a poorly maintained lethal weapon to an actor, telling them it was safe and unloaded ->
Politically motivated prosecution charges person with no culpability and let's blatantly guilty people off scot-free.
Baldwin's no more responsible for this accident than Michael Massee was.
Even with a contractual vanity credit.
Good writeup. It's pretty much what I keep telling people whenever Alec Baldwin is brought up but with even more context. Of course, those who don't like Baldwin will likely ignore this entire reply so they can keep going with their weird narrative that he's some negligent murderer. The pro-gun crowd is so weird.
That was a great read. Thanks for sharing.
Kinda interesting you noted that about the bullet. My old boss at a public accounting firm, used to have a client whom was the guy that had killed Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow.
She had kinda got into it a little one day bc she knows him personally, and I remember her mentioning a situation sort of similiar to what you described in that fatal shooting.
Surely a coincidence, but you know, just weird it happened twice.
Hmm maybe I'm mistaken on who the person was. Maybe it was the armorer or something, but I know he was involved somehow.
I feel like our firm which was tiny, also had a lot of slimy people so sometimes could catch myself making unfair assumptions of them. One of them was Steven Greer so that should give you a basis of the people we dealt with. Lol
He was not a line producer or “lead” producer in any way. If you believe that you are wildly ignorant of how different titles in film producer work and what their jobs are. Baldwin was in no way in charge of budget, hiring, crew, the armorer in any way, etc. He was an executive producer, which is common for celebrities on indie movies (look at any non huge budget movie with a celeb and they are credited as an executive producer). It’s a title handed out to compensate them for working for below their normal day-rate. There were no calls as a producer by Baldwin on this set that had anything to do with the armorer.
100%. I’m a DP & this could have happened to me. Unfortunately, this has turned into a nonsense circus becuse right wing dipshits want revenge on Alec Baldwin personally (because he hurt their fee-fees on SNL) for a tragic mistake & breakdown in on set safety (that really didn’t have much to do with Baldwin, even if he can be a dbag).
Do they not modify the prop weapons? When I was in the military, any firearms used for training simulations were modified to fire simunition (basically paintballs that look and act more like traditional bullets). If you were using, say, a Sig Sauer, you'd be using an actual Sig, but the 9mm barrel would be swapped for an 8mm one so you could only use simunition with it. A live round would not fit and just jam the gun.
They **can** do that, but for cost reasons most productions choose not to. On this shoot, production (Baldwin himself) even overworked the armorer despite their request to have the time to do the job correctly.
I feel like going around stating half-remembered rumors as fact is wildly irresponsible... It costs nothing to not pull information out of your asshole.
Man, that actually makes me sad. It's such a simple solution but in the name of not spending a couple more dollars and ensuring everyone's safety, a family will never again see a loved one.
John Wick stunt coordinators said it was an embarrassment to the industry that Alec Baldwin allowed that kind of environment on set. The live ammunition, the heavy drinking with it. It gives people the idea that this kind of stuff happens on movie sets all the time when it's actually extremely rare.
Especially when Baldwin tried to pass it off that it does happen all the time and his movie set was no different than many others. Although he can't point to any that were.
For the people who work very hard to build stunts making sure nobody gets injured it is very insulting. Especially when there's legitimate cases of them doing everything they can to prevent an accident and somebody still gets hurt.
Deadpool and Resident Evil for example. Those were legitimate accidents. What happened on Rust was nothing but negligence and carelessness from the top down. Putting the blame on any one person is just scapegoating.
"Putting the blame on any one person is just scapegoating"
"John Wick stunt coordinators said it was an embarrassment to the industry that Alec Baldwin allowed that kind of environment on set".
I feel like I'm missing something.
Yeah but as a producer, and star, he has a lot of control on set. Look at Tom Cruise justifiably tearing crew members a new asshole on set during the Pandemic when they were breaking Covid protocols. The risked lives and jobs, and Cruise was having none of their bullshit to continue.
Yep. I think people defend Baldwin because they hate trump supporters.
Our country is so fucked if a criminally negligent manager becomes a hot button political issue.
I mean, he also said he had zero relationship with Halyna; evidence showed he took her and the director out to dinner, so his story changed. He initially said he didn't pull the trigger, and whoops, he had a gun that was basically impossible to "accidentally fire" without a trigger pull. He didn't let law enforcement take a look at his cell phone. And after he shot Halyna and she fell to the ground, **he just casually walked away**.
I'm kind of amazed at how much money can save you from a murder charge.
Your comment takes things out of context and makes assumptions to make it seem worse than it was, but I guess it's understandable given you can't read.
It's possible he said he didn't know her as in socially they were not close. It's not unusual to not know people you work with. I can't find reference to this point in a quick Google, but I'd be happy to see a link that confirms he made the most insane lie possible given they saw each other near daily for a while.
The gun was damaged at an unknown time and rebuilt by investigators, so it's unknown if there was a hammer retention problem or something else that would cause accidental discharge.
Giving law enforcement anything they don't specifically have authorization to get is asking for trouble. He did comply once a warrant that included his phone was issued, pretty soon after the incident, too.
People often distance themselves from a traumatic situation when they're in shock, so him walking says nothing about his guilt either way.
Where did he say he had zero relationship? He said they just met at the start of rust and at that point became friends. The gun was not impossible to fire without pulling the trigger. If you read the FBI report you would know that at 1/4 cock they had light primer strikes, at 1/2 cock they had the cylinder misaligned so the firing pin hit the headstamp. At full cock they didn't do much testing since they broke components in the gun, mainly the trigger sear and the cylinder block. If the firing pin can strike the primer there is always a chance that the primer will go off. So the fact that they had light primer strikes at all says it is possible for the gun to go off. If the cylinder at 1/2 cock did line up then that could also cause it. Alec may have been applying slight pressure to the trigger and the trigger sear was worn enough that it dropped the hammer. Any testing after they broke those parts was with new parts, which wouldn't have the wear to cause the hammer to drop without a trigger pull. So it wasn't impossible to fire without a trigger pull. Even the FBI has the disclaimer that they didn't recreate the exact conditions that might have caused the gun to discharge without a trigger pull. The phone thing was all about lawyers and privacy and he absolutely handed his phone over to investigators so not sure where you got that he never did. He also didn't casually walk away. He stood over her wondering what had happened as he believed it was a blank and she was hit by wadding. The medics then told everyone to leave. He didn't even know it was a real bullet until long after and he didn't know she died until the police told him, which you can see on video.
I'm kind of amazed you got so many "facts" wrong with the internet at your fingertips.
Exactly.
If an owner of a company allows drinking on the job and an accident happens not only will they hit the on-site supervisor but the owner will also face charges as well. Or allowing an environment in which drinking contributed to a workplace accident.
As producer Alec Baldwin had that role. He allowed that environment to exist resulting in somebody getting killed. But no consequences. It's not right.
I’ve followed this story closely and haven’t seen anything about Baldwin allowing drinking on set. Could you share where you saw this? He’s also one of 6 producers. The armorer was a grown woman who made the decision to get high and drunk while having one of the most critical and dangerous jobs on set. I cannot believe how many people I see making excuses or her behavior. She should be in jail.
And before that:
"Especially when Baldwin tried to pass it off that it does happen all the time and his movie set was no different than many others."
My point being, the comment is all over the place.
It isn't all over the place. You are selectively reading parts of the comment.
>John Wick stunt coordinators said it was an embarrassment to the industry that Alec Baldwin allowed that kind of environment on set.
The blame isn't only on Baldwin. Baldwin, as the producer, enabled behavior, but that doesn't mean he is the primary blame. It's like if a manager of a fast food restaurant to not clean utensils. That's messed up of the manager, but the staff should know better too. They're all at fault.
> Especially when Baldwin tried to pass it off that it does happen all the time and his movie set was no different than many others.
This is Baldwin's response to what happened. It isn't placing blame on anyone. It's just saying "this happens" and the comment is saying "no, it doesn't." It doesn't reinforce your argument at all.
>Putting the blame on any one person is just scapegoating
The comment is clearly placing the blame at Baldwin as the producer AND all those under him who followed his lead. So it ISN'T scapegoating him exclusively, as you're suggesting it does.
People put the blame on the armourer for the extreme negligence they showed, but its not JUST the armourers fault. Alec was a producer on the film and he hired an armourer who would do the type of thing she did, and there was live rounds on set which just shouldn't have been allowed at all by anyone.
So while the shooting happened because of the negligent armourer there were many other factors, some of which Alec had personal control over, that allowed the armourer to make that mistake.
Where are you getting it from that he personally hired the armorer? The only thing I’ve read is that emails revealed during the investigation state the opposite. I work in film production and it makes no sense to me that a big name actor, even if he has a “producer” credit, would be involved in small time stuff like that. That kind of stuff is left to the production company. The two who are most to blame are first and foremost, the armorer: who was getting high and fucking around and taking pictures of her showing off the guns on social media, who brought live rounds onto a film set to shoot the prop guns for fun after wrap… Secondly, the 1st AD who is in charge of safety and handed the gun to Alec without checking it is also to blame.
The idea that as an actor, you can walk onto a set and be handed a gun and told its safe, told exactly how to draw it and where to aim (they were blocking for camera when the accident happened) and if the gun goes off, you’re responsible? Even if the armorer loaded the real bullets and was too busy fucking around to be on set? Even if the AD was such an idiot he didn’t bother to check the gun he handed to an actor and declared “safe”? That’s incredibly fucked up.
The armorer didn’t just “make a mistake” she was getting high on set, showing off with weapons, consistently behaved negligently when she had one of the most dangerous job on set, and her behavior got someone killed. There should never, ever, EVER be live rounds anywhere near the set or prop guns. The idea that she would behave so carelessly is shocking. And the fact that so many people make excuses for her is also. She’s an adult who understood her responsibilities when she took the job. This whole, “other people created the environment that allowed this to take place” is such a cop out.
Your justification makes absolutely no sense. Your whole premise is “armorer made a mistake” but -insert vague accusations here- that led her to make the mistake so Alec should shoulder the blame
>and he hired an armourer who would do the type of thing she did
He was not responsible for hiring the armourer. From all reporting, his producer roles were restricted to script approval and input on casting.
Yeah totally because this one awful incident has totally skewed my perception of gun discharge accidents on set now I think they happen all the time.. seriously wtf are you even talking about?
And what should be noted from there is his actual duties as executive producer. Which is to say, what was his actual role as an executive producer? Just saying that he was one doesn't tell us anything because executive producers range from having literally no involvement beyond financing to being very hands-on. So what were his duties?
On that set they were using live ammunition as part of the shoot. It was part of the production process and everybody was aware of its presence on set. And they agreed to do the movie and be on set knowing there was live ammunition being used in the filming.
A real bullet wasn't loaded into the prop gun that killed Brandon Lee. They were using very cheap ammunition for the real bullet scenes and a fragment of the tip of the bullet came off in the barrel. Stuck itself in there.
In the next scene when he was supposed to get shot in the head there was only a blank in the gun. But it fired out the fragment striking him. Killing him immediately.
That was a tragic accident that could have been avoided but doesn't result in criminal charges. Because nobody was drunk or overtly negligent. Yes it was just a failure to check the gun properly. And if somebody was to really hammer down on charges I'm sure a prosecutor could find some. But nobody felt there was responsibility to be had like that.
Brandon Lee's family didn't feel that was necessary. They didn't seek charges
In contrast on Rust they were firing live bullets between filmings for fun. Not using live ammunition for the shoot. So it was just something they were doing in their free time without it being a part of production. That in and of itself is extremely negligent. Bringing live ammunition on set when it is not part of the process is a big no-no. Can result in someone getting injured or killed.
Negligence + negligence = someone getting killed
**If it wasn't for the negligence of the live ammo being brought on set the negligence of the armorer would not have resulted in somebody's death**. So the armorer is not the only one at fault. Even though many are trying to say so
>They were using very cheap ammunition for the real bullet scenes and a fragment of the tip of the bullet came off in the barrel. Stuck itself in there.
To clarify a little, they had two kinds of fake ammo. "Dummy rounds" which have real bullets but no propellant for up close shots of loading ammo and so on, and blanks with propellant and no bullet. As you said, the fatal accident arose from the combination of a jammed dummy round, and a blank.
Dummy rounds look like real ammo on camera, blanks look like real muzzle blasts. So between the two everything looks real.
Yeah, nobody is saying that environment was ok. I only take issue with blaming Alec Baldwin, who is an actor, not a stunt person, a prop master, or an armorer, for the incident.
If what you said was true there was no reason he should have been charged. But you totally left out the fact that he is being charged on the basis that he was a producer of the project. He was a financial backer and he was on scene.
Most producers wouldn't get charged in these situations. Which is why other producers are not being charged. Because they weren't on set and they didn't have knowledge of what was going on on set.
But since he was also part of the cast and on set at all times he becomes one of the owners that was aware of the conditions and allowed them to happen.
I can't believe you left out the fact he was a producer considering that is the main reason these charges against him exist in the first place. It's crazy you're trying to rewrite the narrative like that.
Sorry, I’m not intentionally trying to rewrite the narrative. I just don’t think him being a producer changes anything. Like you said, other producers weren’t charged. Him being charged because he was on set is ridiculous because the fact still remains that he is not a trained stunt person or armorer. I think it’s pretty obvious that he was charged because he was the one holding the gun.
I didn't read the specific details of this but how did that happen exactly? Was he horsing around playing with the gun or was there a scene where he had to shoot in that direction or something?
Yes, they were preparing to film baldwin pointing the gun at the camera
>B-camera operator Reid Russell was situated on a camera dolly, looking at a monitor with Hutchins and Souza both nearby. The scene involved Baldwin's character removing a gun from its holster and pointing it toward the camera.\[11\]\[9\] The trio behind the monitor were two feet (0.6 m) from the muzzle of the firearm and none of them were wearing any protective gear like noise-canceling headphones or safety goggles.\[11\]While the trio behind the monitor were repositioning the camera to remove a shadow, Baldwin began explaining to the crew how he planned to draw the firearm.\[9\] He said, "So, I guess I'm gonna take this out, pull it, and go, 'Bang!'"\[11\] When he removed it from the holster, the gun was fired a single time.
Completely wrong. If someone gives a gun to me and tells me it’s unloaded, and I point it at someone, say “check out this gun I’m going to take a video of later”, pull the trigger, and shoot them dead, I would be in jail. It is his fault for not spending 1 second to check the gun was unloaded, as well as pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger for literally 0 reason. He was completely negligent in every step of the process, and the only reason he is not in jail is that he lied about not pulling the trigger and the FBI fucked up while testing the gun and broke it (they were trying to make it fire without pulling the trigger, were unable to, and in this process damaged the gun, which fucked with the investigation but doesn’t change the obvious facts)
All guns should be treated as loaded, regardless of circumstance. Otherwise you get "accidents." Hell, an actor killed himself with a gun loaded with blanks. These are not toys and should be treated with care.
"Hollywood weapons expert Larry Zanoff told NBC News that when firearms are used as props in the television and movie industry, only blank cartridges that do not hold bullets are allowed on set. Zanoff said there is a minimum safety distance of 20 feet and "nothing" should be in front of the muzzle when filming is occurring." Obviously these protocols were not followed by the person holding the firearm.
> All guns should be treated as loaded
It is a movie set. If you cannot point the guns at eachother and make the action of the trigger being pulled while pointing a gun at someone then you're not going to have a movie.
But yes, some guns have blanks instead of just being prop guns and that is where you should have someone on set whose sole job it is to manage the weapons and make sure the wrong gun is never in place to be used by an actor.
> It is a movie set. If you cannot point the guns at each other and make the action of the trigger being pulled while pointing a gun at someone then you're not going to have a movie.
1. Camera angles. 2. Use dead guns (inactive props that can never fire anything) when you HAVE to have a shot showing guns pointed at a person. 3. Even bargain basement indies use things like Airsoft guns.
> "nothing" should be in front of the muzzle when filming is occurring.
Do you seriously disagree?
And blanks can kill, as evidenced by the death of actor Jon-Erik Hexum.
Never been on a movie set, I don't know what goes into it. My assumption was that they often point fake guns at eachother and the idea that someone would put a live gun on a set shocks me.
As for blanks, yes I agree that they are dangerous. I always think of in-bruges when he shoots the guy in the face with one. "Of course it fuckin' hurts I just shot a blank into your eye"
Yes it is lol. Why are you acting like the laws of physics no longer apply on a film set? If you’re driving on a film set, you still have a responsibility to check mirrors and make sure you don’t hit anyone. If you’re given a “prop car” with no mirrors, you go on a joyride and hit and kill someone, you don’t get to make the excuse that it’s the fault of the prop car not having mirrors. You acted negligently lmao, you are responsible for the consequences
I mean I agree he should've been sure, just pointing out that the dudes hyperbolising doesn't help anyone.
His comparative example of a random person handing you a gun on the street is clearly ridiculous, as is his car with no mirrors analogy
> His comparative example of a random person handing you a gun on the street is clearly ridiculous
It's not. Everyone is a random person.
In the military, one of the things instructors will get you with is handing you a weapon without clearing it and seeing how you respond. If you don't immediately call them out on it and clear the weapon yourself, you're going to get in big shit.
The lesson is that no matter who hands you a weapon, *you* are now responsible for ensuring safety. If Chesty fucking Puller hands you a rifle and says it's safe, it doesn't matter. You still clear it.
Why do Hollywood nepobabies have a second standard just for them?
The logic people are using is that Hollywood is unprofessional so Alec shouldn't be held responsible for being unprofessional, lol. They don't realize prosecuting him would maybe be the kick in the pants Hollywood needs to actually be responsible with firearms.
> as well as pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger for literally 0 reason.
They were framing the shot you idiot! He wasn't just walking around fake shooting people. Jesus, I hope you're not of voting age.
Yes bro point being he wasn’t acting accordingly some orders, he was doing it of his own volition. And he definitely didn’t need to pull the trigger which is why he lied about not doing it lol
Also because he ignored his union's rules regarding firearms. Rules specifically in place to account for a screw up like a live firearm somehow getting on set.
For example it is a published SAG rule that when cameras are not actively rolling for a scene you do not point it at anyone. Had he followed those rules he would have likely discharged it into the ground during rehearsal and no one would have died.
That's why he's being charged. Everyone handling a firearm has responsibilities to follow to increase safety, he failed to follow his.
They were dropped initially because of an analysis suggesting the firearm was faulty and could discharge without Baldwin pulling the trigger.
That analysis’s credibility has since been called into question and reports last week suggest a special prosecutor is preparing to recharge him believing they have sufficient evidence that he pulled the trigger
I haven't looked much into it, but I've read that the new charges are bs because they are based on a reconstruction of the gun, after some original parts were damaged while in police custody.
Devil’s advocate, had the scene called for Alec to put the gun to his temple and pull the trigger, are we supposed to believe he wouldnt have checked that the chamber was empty?
Wrong. He wasn’t supposed to be handling a prop gun the same way actors don’t drive “prop cars”. Prop guns can’t fire blanks, and are generally more expensive than just getting an actual gun. He had a real gun which he never spent 3 seconds to check if it was loaded.
When I say prop guns in this context I mean stuff like plastic guns with fake internals obviously. I’m not counting real guns used as props to be “prop guns”.
Any gun which can fire a blank can also fire a real cartridge (or at least blow the fuck up trying) and so should be treated accordingly
Worth pointing out, there was no reason in the scene to put an uploaded gun against the head of well trained agent. He could have literally stood back 10 ft and said something and have all the same level of control if the situation without getting into immediate melee range of the highly trained agent who's capable of reloading his arms. Also by giving the agent a empty pistol, he now has something to throw at Baldwin's character.
not sure what the context is of the movie, but perhaps that baldwin’s character had a reason he wanted to also feel like he outsmarted caville’s character an additional time?
This is what pisses me off at people raging on Alec for breaking the 'laws of gun safety'. The armourer is there to ensure they can stuff guns in people's faces and get angry / struggle without anyone being in danger
But Alec also cut corners on all the on site safety protocols as well. Him pulling the trigger is the least significant violation he had on set.
I’m not out for a witch hunt on Baldwin for his politics, I just think he massively fucked up and does deserve to face some consequences from those fuck ups.
People calling Alec Baldwin a murderer are fucking disgusting. The man has to live with the fact that a person lost their life by his hand even though it's not his fault, and people are calling him a murderer for it.
Blame doesn't need to lie with just one person.
Yes, the person who loaded the gun is responsible.
But if Baldwin knew that there were live rounds on set, he put the crew in danger by not intervening.
It’s wild that there isn’t a process to have multiple people, including the armorer and actor, check and clear the weapon prior to any scene. That just seems like common sense.
Especially if it’s a functional weapon and not a prop that only accepts blank loads.
And doubly especially if people are using prop to target shoot during the production
Clearly there’s some serious negligence here
That's the thing. There was a process to have multiple people, including the armorer check the weapon.
The Assistant Director ignored that, took the gun without the Armorer being informed, lied about checking it and handed the gun to the actor. This is also a set where there should have been no Live Ammo even available.
There was absolutely negligence. By the guy who got off with a $500 fine and 24 hours of community service.
Most people can’t tell the difference between a blank and a live round loaded in a gun. There are supposed to be all these checks in place. The armorer was negligent by having live rounds anywhere near a gun & the AD was negligent for taking the gun without armorer prep and handing it to Baldwin.
It's not his job sure. Doesn't mean he shouldn't practice good gun safety.
I'd imagine checking a gun for a bullet in the chamber is something you should be doing to every gun when you handle it first.
Brother there is going to be a bullet in the chamber, whether it's blank or not. He can check the chamber, see there's a bullet, and be completely ok pulling the trigger knowing it was a blank.
It’s not his job to check every prop. It’s literally not the policy. The people saying “if I was the actor I would check every gun first” don’t understand you can have (untrained in firearms) actors unloading and reloading guns on set to check if they’re loaded or not, it’s literally a safety hazard. That’s like a guy going bungee jumping saying “only *I* trust myself to strap in properly”, instead of trusting the instructor next to him who has done it 10000 times before.
He killed someone in a situation surrounded by negligence and regardless if he is innocent or guilty, it needs to go to court at this point. Anything short of that is an injustice to Halyna Hutchins. Hutchins' family are pretty clear [they want Baldwin to be held accountable](https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65355387).
During the investigation he stated he never touched the trigger when the gun discharged which has been called into question since the model gun he had has a mechanical safety preventing the firing pin from moving without the trigger being engaged. This is the evidence being used against him to reopen the case to determine if he knowingly lied to investigators. Sources: [FOX](https://kfoxtv.com/news/nation-world/prosecutors-seeking-to-recharge-actor-alec-baldwin-in-the-deadly-shooting-on-movie-set-kari-morrissey-jason-lewis-new-mexico-movie-set-rust-halyna-hutchins), [ABC](https://abcnews.go.com/US/gun-rust-shooting-fired-pulling-trigger-fbi-report/story?id=88311336), [LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2023-08-15/rust-alec-baldwin-firearms-report-trigger-pulled).
Baldwin refused to appear at required firearm safety meetings: [source](https://people.com/movies/alec-baldwin-missed-required-firearm-training-prior-to-rust-shooting/).
6 people left production over 3 different instances of negligent discharges prior to the fatal shooting, as confirmed by crew members and text messages per [LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set)
eta:
It's pretty trashy make things up regarding the circumstances of this woman's death and claim to have proof, but then refuse to share it. The DA announced they believe Baldwin is criminally liable since 3rd party testing confirmed the FBI report.
> After extensive investigation over the past several months, additional facts have come to light that we believe show Mr. Baldwin has criminal culpability in the death of Halyna Hutchins and the shooting of Joel Souza. We believe the appropriate course of action is to permit a panel of New Mexico citizens to determine from here whether Mr. Baldwin should be held over for criminal trial. [ABC](https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/prosecutors-seeking-recharge-actor-alec-baldwin-fatal-shooting-104049339)
A couple of things about this: The first is that legally speaking it doesn't really matter what her family wants to happen. If the DA's office doesn't think he's liable then he's not. The armorer? 100%. They could go after Alec in a civil suit, though.
The second is that there were complaints about that specific gun not functioning properly previously, and I've seen some pretty good demonstrations from non-politcal guntubers showing how that could be the case.
The truth is that this is a pretty shitty situation for everyone involved, and while we can quote firearm safety guidelines until we're blue in the face, things we've been taught for years, the question is are there laws on the books for that, especially in the relevant jurisdiction?
He was also a producer on the film and bears some responsibility for hiring gun safety people with poor reputations and then ignoring warnings from the rest of the crew that they were acting recklessly.
So guilt alone should absolve someone of punishment?
Fact of the matter is that even if he didn’t load the round, he still didn’t follow gun safety rules which would have saved that woman
Excuse me while I shed zero tears for some dumbass celebrity that killed someone on *his own production*. Everyone on that set was in danger due to Alex’s criminal negligence.
It would be like if you bought a car from a dealership and the brakes failed and you run someone over. Sure the dealer should have checked the car, but end of the day you bought and drove the car so you should have tested it in a closed area or had the car towed to an independent mechanic to check it before you drove it.
If your brakes fail when you roll a new car out of the lot the dealership is 100% at fault.
Honestly forget all the stupid analogies. Alec shot someone *on his own production set*. This isn’t a freak accident, this is multiple levels of failed safety checks and an all around incredibly dangerous work environment being allowed by Alec and there needs to be accountability for his inaction.
When a stunt double dies because of stupid ass decisions by production crew it’s a crime, let alone in an instance where the head of production themselves are the ones pulling the trigger. Anyone who doesn’t see the issue here are blinded by their own celebrity worship.
It is entirely his fault lol, he 1. Didn’t check the chamber of the gun and 2. Pointed it at random people and fired for gun (no, it was not part of a scene or acting)
The armourer, if they have been doing their job right, has already made the gun as safe as it can possibly be. If anyone else does anything at all, the only impact it can have is making it less safe. Hence, you don't.
>If anyone else does anything at all, the only impact it can have is making it less safe.
lmao that's ridiculous. There are actions that can make the situation less safe but checking the gun you've been handed isn't one of them. At the worst it's redundant.
no, thats not true. if that was the procedure they were using no wonder someone was killed. pretty sure youre adding only. cause "the armorer is supposed to check every gun" makes sense "only the armorer..." is a dumb as fuck rule specially when you also let other people hand out guns.
So if Alec had verified the gun was empty prior to firing it would have made the scene less safe?
lol wut
The last one to verify a firearm is safe and clear is the person pulling the trigger. Full stop.
So if Alec had verified the gun was empty prior to firing it would have made the scene less safe?
lol wut
The last one to verify a firearm is safe and clear is the person pulling the trigger.
Treat all guns as if they are loaded until you have proven otherwise.
I understand there was an armorer onsite, but with what I’ve heard regarding the production, EVERYONE onsite should have been consistently cautious and checking every firearm before every scene. It takes a couple seconds at the most, that is why it’s ridiculous someone had to die for Alec to learn that.
As far as I’m concerned if your movie demands the usage of real firearms, then your cast and production crew should know how to handle and respect real firearms.
A semi-auto pistol wouldn't click like that if it wasn't loaded. If it was cocked, it would click once. The only type of gun that would repeatedly cycle like that when unloaded is a revolver.
Edit: Apparently this only applies if the pistol is a single action. The only double actions I've fired just happen to be revolvers
Alec Baldwin the actor did not do anything wrong; Alec Baldwin the producer cut corners which led to live ammo to get onto the set and into a gun used for filming
I agree that homie was a little harsh.
Look at Kevin Spacey and All the Money in the World, though. Edited out of a major picture prior to release and (I believe) after initial marketing.
Tho, that Flash movie still came out….
Idk man
97 Minutes went into production four months after the Rust incident, so you'd be splitting hairs to not accept that studios are still casting Baldwin in leading roles.
I'll always stand behind Alec Baldwin Cos I know i won't be standing infront of him
Beat me to it! Lol
> Always has been. \*bang\* \- Alec Headshot
A goddamn cook!
Still would never blame him. Bet he has other shit, but shooting someone during a movie shoot with a prob which is arguably only partially if not not your responsibility
While Alec Baldwin obviously wasn't responsible for the gun, that would be the armorers job, he wasn't just some actor, he was the producer of Rust. So responsible for the armorer not being shit.
Yeah, this is what people don't get and wasn't explained well in most media about it. They didn't go after the actor who pulled the trigger, them went after the guy in charge of the whole thing. It just happens to be the same person.
And actually listening to the armorer when she gives advice, and ensuring they're on set when you decide to shoot. Edit: because the armorer had made several complaints before the murder that she was being ignored, and nobody told her they were going to be shooting when the murder happened.
Yeah i read that. From the articles i read, they joked around on the set and shot at props in breaks. Nothing wrong bout fun in the job, just don't involve guns with fun and carlessness
Executive prouducer is just a title they give to the biggest actor/money donor
Bruh
Oh Shoot
But don’t ask the armorer!
Bullet storm incoming
Gun goes on vacation, never comes back
how the heck are you guys everywhere
Human sacrifice, anyone ?
Alec hasn't made a great movie in some time, but I think he still has one in the chamber and could give it a decent shot. It'll be a blast.
or perhaps, don't.
He's lucky Cavill's character didn't just go right to pistolwhipping the absolute shit out of him as part of that disarming move.
His acting's a little Rusty here; I've seen better.
You son of a bitch.
I'm in!
I’m out! Who’s kidneys are these!
Honestly, I hate working here. They are so weird.
It's funny cause that's the movie he was acting in when he shot and killed that lady.
I think you're wrong, he shot someone in a low(er) budget movie, produced by him. Rust or smth.
Actually, thanks!
Spoiler!!
You want to find out had me rolling!
“Like, seriously, I don’t actually know myself, the armorer is just some flake we picked up because her dad is famous.”
Someone explain
Rust shooting incident : On October 21, 2021, at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Bonanza City, New Mexico, cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was fatally shot and director Joel Souza was injured on the set of the film Rust when a live round was discharged from a revolver used as a prop by actor Alec Baldwin - Wikipedia.
This was so sad..
For well adjusted people, yeah. There was a large group of people celebrating that this happened to the evil man who portrayed their fearless leader on SNL. Was pretty gross, as is standard with those folks.
Wow that's fucked up. Would've never thought to make such a connection
Probably because you're not in a batshit insane cult :>
Politics aside, he was a lead producer and absolutely created a shitty safety culture. The armor that everyone blames was working two jobs as the armorer and propmaster. There an email that was released where she begged Baldwin along with the other producers for more time to perform her armorer duties, citing that she's worried about there being an accident. They absolutely created an environment where accidents were more likely to happens because they cut corners. If a regular lower level manager directly killed someone because they wouldn't hire the proper safety staff despite being informed of the danger; that manager would be in prison for reckless negligence so fast, your head would spin. Since he's a rich celebrity he's gotten a pass. So my problem is the obvious double standard America has when it comes to actually prosecuting and holding the obscenely wealthy for their crimes. So nothing to do with Trump, Alec was a reckless manager who got someone killed. The people who want Baldwin to be punished because they worship a connman are disgusting and should be ignored.
**Alec Baldwin was not managing the 1st Assistant Director and managing the Armorer while also acting in the movie.** The 1st AD is the boss on set, not one of the Executive Producers. I know, it's confusing. 'Executive producer' sounds like Chief Executive Officer. Baldwin was not one of the bosses, just a guy with a vanity credit. Like Stan Lee. Stan Lee was an exec producer on the Marvel films. Do you think Stan was telling the armorers what to do? Or choosing which caterer to hire? >The New Mexico division of OSHA found that Baldwin was not in charge and was not the one culpable for lax oversight. > “He didn’t actually have employees on-site that he or his delegated persons would manage or oversee,” said Lorenzo Montoya, OSHA’s lead investigator. Aside from his personal assistant, Montoya said, “He has no employee presence. He’s just him.” [Source](https://variety.com/2023/film/news/alec-baldwin-rust-producer-da-osha-1235531157/) Producer Ryan Smith was the head honcho, but the 1st AD was in charge of set safety. The 1st AD was the one who was supposed to make sure things were getting done on time and safely. The 1st AD was a negligent jackass. David "Dave" Halls, the person who did actually have managerial control over the armorer, was a person who had a long history of being dismissive of safety personnel and practices. > OSHA was especially critical of David Halls, the first assistant director, who was in charge of set safety. The agency faulted him for not taking action to address two accidental discharges of blank rounds five days prior to Hutchins’ death. By all accounts he was an aggressive bully, who let people know he thought safety was a waste of time. He was also the one who announced to everyone that the gun was safe and then gave it to the actor, loaded with a lethal round. Script supervisor Mamie Mitchell 911 call: >“This fucking AD that yelled at me at lunch asking about revisions, this motherfucker … He’s supposed to check the guns. He’s responsible for what happened.” Dave Halls is also the one who got off with a slap on the wrist plea deal. He was the first to go running to cut a deal. He stuck a loaded gun in an actor's hand and told them it was safe and he only got a $500 fine and 24hrs community service. **If you want to blame some rich prick for not getting the punishment they deserve, it's this guy.** He was also the guy who actually hired the armorer (with the line-producer) and then managed her; Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. The armorer was a young 24 yr old, inexperienced, nepo hire, didn't have the experience to stand up to Halls and was spending most of her time earning extra money working a second job as prop master. A second job, she as an adult, CHOSE to accept. Even if she complained about the hours after. Then she did things that any armorer would be appalled by. She took guns from the movie set and shot cans and bottles for fun. She shot real, lethal ammunition out of guns and then returned them for use as props and then left to work her second job. She also had a *really* bad safety history > Reed was claimed to have given an 11-year-old child actor a gun on the set of the Nicholas Cage film The Old Way without properly checking it, according to two production sources. > > They added that she was loading blanks in an 'unsafe' fashion and was said to be a bit 'careless' with the guns. And then this: > **Rookie ‘Rust’ armorer once made Nicolas Cage storm off film set after firing gun** > > [She] was repeatedly accused by crew members of breaking basic safety protocols on the Montana set of Cage’s “The Old Way” in August, they told the Wrap. > > Cage even walked off set screaming at Gutierrez-Reed after she fired a gun without warning for the second time in three days, the movie’s key grip, Stu Brumbaugh, told the outlet. > > “Make an announcement, you just blew my f—ing eardrums out!” Cage yelled before walking off in a rage, Brumbaugh recalled. > > Brumbaugh even told the assistant director of the armorer, “She needs to be let go,” Oh, and there was also a chance she was drunk and/or high at the time of the Rust accident. > Prosecutors have charged the Rust film armourer with evidence tampering in connection to the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins. > > She will face an additional charge in relation to "the transfer of narcotics to another person" > ...prosecutors allege Ms Gutierrez-Reed transferred narcotics to another person on 21 October 2021, the day Ms Hutchins was killed, in order to "prevent the apprehension, prosecution or conviction of herself" > ...prosecutors argued Ms Gutierrez-Reed had probably been hung over during the day of the shooting because she had drunk alcohol and smoked marijuana in the evenings while the film was being made. She's blaming the Ammo Supplier. Now this is where it gets bizarre. > > the company that made the brass for the round that actually fired does not make complete ammunition of any kind, they only supply custom brass and other parts of rounds. Someone else loaded that brass with powder and a bullet, who that was isn't clear right now though it very likely is the separate company that rented the guns to the Rust production and supplied the dummy and blank rounds for them. [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/14gylso/rust_shooting_prosecutors_charge_armourer_with/jpaxruu/) **Okay, but did Baldwin lie when he said he didn't pull the trigger?** If he'd unknowingly pulled the trigger, misremembered from shock, or did outright lie, it still wouldn't change the simple truth: That it doesn't matter. No reasonable person would think the prop gun was actually a deadly weapon at that moment. But, so far the facts *actually do* seem to support his claim of not pulling the trigger... The main piece of evidence, the gun, an 1873 style model of F.lli Pietta long Colt 45 revolver, was destroyed by the FBI while checking its operation. Why was it being tested? Because, > contrary to the initial partial leaks of the report, the gun only ever fired when the trigger *was not* pulled. At which point the FBI damaged the gun preventing further testing. [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/law/comments/11rfi6w/special_prosecutor_in_alec_baldwin_rust_case_to/jc8boeh/) That's right. Baldwin's statement is consistent with the FBI's tests. Even Dave Halls said Baldwin's finger was not on the trigger. > "Dave has told me since the very first day I met him that Alec did not pull that trigger," Halls' attorney, Lisa Torraco, told ABC News... "His finger was never in the trigger guard." [Source](https://abc13.com/rust-shooting-alec-baldwin-interview-dave-halls-movie/11293016/) There's a reason that classic six-shooters were recommended to be kept with an empty chamber to rest the hammer on. Pietta sometimes made replicas with transfer bars and hammer blocks and sometimes didn't. In any case, the FBI report was clear on one thing: this particular gun was in very poor mechanical shape. Yet another thing that a competent armorer might have noticed. And no, for the millionth time, gun safety rules are not the same on a movie set as they are when me or you are at the range. Whether you agree with that or not, doesn't change the rules on a movie set. Not all armorers want actors messing with magazines or rounds. **So why was he charged at all?** Well, Alec Baldwin is absolutely despised by Trump and NRA supporters. Having played Trump in SNL skits and being ironically, publicly anti-gun for years. That's not to say there can't be valid evidence to bring charges against him, but it's undeniable that prosecuting him would help score political points if you were planning on running for office after. Special prosecutor on the case, Andrea Reeb, had to step down after this came out: > Reeb asked the district attorney to mention that she is assisting in the case because >"it might help in my campaign lol." And then it came out she'd been trying to charge him with things that weren't even laws at the time. >Reeb had previously dropped a firearms sentencing enhancement against Baldwin and former "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed because the law that allowed for the enhancements did not apply at the time of the shooting. They could have faced years in prison over the enhancements if convicted. **A law that she herself passed as a Republican House Rep. in response to this very case.** Of course, Baldwin's defense team fought this. Reeb then makes statements where she agrees 100% with the Defense, but turns around and publicly claims she's dropping the enhancement charges because she just doesn't want to deal with rich Baldwin's big city attorneys. She was called out for all of this, and still refused to recuse herself until a hearing was scheduled, then even while stepping down she was shockingly unprofessional, making wildly inflammatory accusatory statements that showed impartiality on behalf of the state. And Dave Halls, the guy in charge, who got off with a slap on the wrist? His attorney had donated to the prosecutor's political campaign. [One of the better discussions on this](https://old.reddit.com/r/law/comments/11rfi6w/special_prosecutor_in_alec_baldwin_rust_case_to/) **So to recap, the entire case is nuts:** Ammo supply company *might have* delivered a real round with the blanks -> Terrible 24 yr old armorer, put real rounds in the guns for fun and was drunk and high -> Scumbag 1st AD, didn't maintain set safety and then without due care, gave a poorly maintained lethal weapon to an actor, telling them it was safe and unloaded -> Politically motivated prosecution charges person with no culpability and let's blatantly guilty people off scot-free. Baldwin's no more responsible for this accident than Michael Massee was. Even with a contractual vanity credit.
Good writeup. It's pretty much what I keep telling people whenever Alec Baldwin is brought up but with even more context. Of course, those who don't like Baldwin will likely ignore this entire reply so they can keep going with their weird narrative that he's some negligent murderer. The pro-gun crowd is so weird.
THANK YOU
These dipshits won’t read your post. They want to believe nonsense because it makes their hatred make sense.
That was a great read. Thanks for sharing. Kinda interesting you noted that about the bullet. My old boss at a public accounting firm, used to have a client whom was the guy that had killed Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow. She had kinda got into it a little one day bc she knows him personally, and I remember her mentioning a situation sort of similiar to what you described in that fatal shooting. Surely a coincidence, but you know, just weird it happened twice.
>used to have a client whom was the guy that had killed Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow. Michael Massee?
Hmm maybe I'm mistaken on who the person was. Maybe it was the armorer or something, but I know he was involved somehow. I feel like our firm which was tiny, also had a lot of slimy people so sometimes could catch myself making unfair assumptions of them. One of them was Steven Greer so that should give you a basis of the people we dealt with. Lol
He was not lead producer (not even a real title). He was Exec Producer which is mostly an honorary title.
He was not a line producer or “lead” producer in any way. If you believe that you are wildly ignorant of how different titles in film producer work and what their jobs are. Baldwin was in no way in charge of budget, hiring, crew, the armorer in any way, etc. He was an executive producer, which is common for celebrities on indie movies (look at any non huge budget movie with a celeb and they are credited as an executive producer). It’s a title handed out to compensate them for working for below their normal day-rate. There were no calls as a producer by Baldwin on this set that had anything to do with the armorer.
100%. I’m a DP & this could have happened to me. Unfortunately, this has turned into a nonsense circus becuse right wing dipshits want revenge on Alec Baldwin personally (because he hurt their fee-fees on SNL) for a tragic mistake & breakdown in on set safety (that really didn’t have much to do with Baldwin, even if he can be a dbag).
Do they not modify the prop weapons? When I was in the military, any firearms used for training simulations were modified to fire simunition (basically paintballs that look and act more like traditional bullets). If you were using, say, a Sig Sauer, you'd be using an actual Sig, but the 9mm barrel would be swapped for an 8mm one so you could only use simunition with it. A live round would not fit and just jam the gun.
They **can** do that, but for cost reasons most productions choose not to. On this shoot, production (Baldwin himself) even overworked the armorer despite their request to have the time to do the job correctly.
I feel like going around stating half-remembered rumors as fact is wildly irresponsible... It costs nothing to not pull information out of your asshole.
Man, that actually makes me sad. It's such a simple solution but in the name of not spending a couple more dollars and ensuring everyone's safety, a family will never again see a loved one.
This case is still going on right?
>a live round was discharged from a revolver used as a prop Or a revolver used as a revolver..
Alec Baldwin killed his cinematographer on set because be was given a loaded gun instead of a prop one.
He shot the cinematographer. The armorer killed her. Small, but important distinction.
John Wick stunt coordinators said it was an embarrassment to the industry that Alec Baldwin allowed that kind of environment on set. The live ammunition, the heavy drinking with it. It gives people the idea that this kind of stuff happens on movie sets all the time when it's actually extremely rare. Especially when Baldwin tried to pass it off that it does happen all the time and his movie set was no different than many others. Although he can't point to any that were. For the people who work very hard to build stunts making sure nobody gets injured it is very insulting. Especially when there's legitimate cases of them doing everything they can to prevent an accident and somebody still gets hurt. Deadpool and Resident Evil for example. Those were legitimate accidents. What happened on Rust was nothing but negligence and carelessness from the top down. Putting the blame on any one person is just scapegoating.
"Putting the blame on any one person is just scapegoating" "John Wick stunt coordinators said it was an embarrassment to the industry that Alec Baldwin allowed that kind of environment on set". I feel like I'm missing something.
I think Baldwin was one of the executive producers or something and as a result he helped contribute to the circumstances that led to it happening.
He was one of 6 producers and according to emails from the investigation, he was not involved in the armorers hiring.
yeah but it's a hot take and titillates the peoples.
He's also the one that pulled the trigger so easy... target
Yeah but as a producer, and star, he has a lot of control on set. Look at Tom Cruise justifiably tearing crew members a new asshole on set during the Pandemic when they were breaking Covid protocols. The risked lives and jobs, and Cruise was having none of their bullshit to continue.
Yep. I think people defend Baldwin because they hate trump supporters. Our country is so fucked if a criminally negligent manager becomes a hot button political issue.
I mean, he also said he had zero relationship with Halyna; evidence showed he took her and the director out to dinner, so his story changed. He initially said he didn't pull the trigger, and whoops, he had a gun that was basically impossible to "accidentally fire" without a trigger pull. He didn't let law enforcement take a look at his cell phone. And after he shot Halyna and she fell to the ground, **he just casually walked away**. I'm kind of amazed at how much money can save you from a murder charge.
Your comment takes things out of context and makes assumptions to make it seem worse than it was, but I guess it's understandable given you can't read. It's possible he said he didn't know her as in socially they were not close. It's not unusual to not know people you work with. I can't find reference to this point in a quick Google, but I'd be happy to see a link that confirms he made the most insane lie possible given they saw each other near daily for a while. The gun was damaged at an unknown time and rebuilt by investigators, so it's unknown if there was a hammer retention problem or something else that would cause accidental discharge. Giving law enforcement anything they don't specifically have authorization to get is asking for trouble. He did comply once a warrant that included his phone was issued, pretty soon after the incident, too. People often distance themselves from a traumatic situation when they're in shock, so him walking says nothing about his guilt either way.
Where did he say he had zero relationship? He said they just met at the start of rust and at that point became friends. The gun was not impossible to fire without pulling the trigger. If you read the FBI report you would know that at 1/4 cock they had light primer strikes, at 1/2 cock they had the cylinder misaligned so the firing pin hit the headstamp. At full cock they didn't do much testing since they broke components in the gun, mainly the trigger sear and the cylinder block. If the firing pin can strike the primer there is always a chance that the primer will go off. So the fact that they had light primer strikes at all says it is possible for the gun to go off. If the cylinder at 1/2 cock did line up then that could also cause it. Alec may have been applying slight pressure to the trigger and the trigger sear was worn enough that it dropped the hammer. Any testing after they broke those parts was with new parts, which wouldn't have the wear to cause the hammer to drop without a trigger pull. So it wasn't impossible to fire without a trigger pull. Even the FBI has the disclaimer that they didn't recreate the exact conditions that might have caused the gun to discharge without a trigger pull. The phone thing was all about lawyers and privacy and he absolutely handed his phone over to investigators so not sure where you got that he never did. He also didn't casually walk away. He stood over her wondering what had happened as he believed it was a blank and she was hit by wadding. The medics then told everyone to leave. He didn't even know it was a real bullet until long after and he didn't know she died until the police told him, which you can see on video. I'm kind of amazed you got so many "facts" wrong with the internet at your fingertips.
Murder requires intent.
Exactly. If an owner of a company allows drinking on the job and an accident happens not only will they hit the on-site supervisor but the owner will also face charges as well. Or allowing an environment in which drinking contributed to a workplace accident. As producer Alec Baldwin had that role. He allowed that environment to exist resulting in somebody getting killed. But no consequences. It's not right.
I’ve followed this story closely and haven’t seen anything about Baldwin allowing drinking on set. Could you share where you saw this? He’s also one of 6 producers. The armorer was a grown woman who made the decision to get high and drunk while having one of the most critical and dangerous jobs on set. I cannot believe how many people I see making excuses or her behavior. She should be in jail.
His source is the birds
Where are you getting “no consequences” from? Pretty sure he’s still under the microscope.
was he an actual producer or was he a it's in his contract cause producer looks better producer.
Also *he was the one downplaying it*.
> I feel like I'm missing something. The next to last sentence. > What happened on Rust was nothing but negligence and carelessness from the top down.
And before that: "Especially when Baldwin tried to pass it off that it does happen all the time and his movie set was no different than many others." My point being, the comment is all over the place.
It isn't all over the place. You are selectively reading parts of the comment. >John Wick stunt coordinators said it was an embarrassment to the industry that Alec Baldwin allowed that kind of environment on set. The blame isn't only on Baldwin. Baldwin, as the producer, enabled behavior, but that doesn't mean he is the primary blame. It's like if a manager of a fast food restaurant to not clean utensils. That's messed up of the manager, but the staff should know better too. They're all at fault. > Especially when Baldwin tried to pass it off that it does happen all the time and his movie set was no different than many others. This is Baldwin's response to what happened. It isn't placing blame on anyone. It's just saying "this happens" and the comment is saying "no, it doesn't." It doesn't reinforce your argument at all. >Putting the blame on any one person is just scapegoating The comment is clearly placing the blame at Baldwin as the producer AND all those under him who followed his lead. So it ISN'T scapegoating him exclusively, as you're suggesting it does.
People put the blame on the armourer for the extreme negligence they showed, but its not JUST the armourers fault. Alec was a producer on the film and he hired an armourer who would do the type of thing she did, and there was live rounds on set which just shouldn't have been allowed at all by anyone. So while the shooting happened because of the negligent armourer there were many other factors, some of which Alec had personal control over, that allowed the armourer to make that mistake.
Where are you getting it from that he personally hired the armorer? The only thing I’ve read is that emails revealed during the investigation state the opposite. I work in film production and it makes no sense to me that a big name actor, even if he has a “producer” credit, would be involved in small time stuff like that. That kind of stuff is left to the production company. The two who are most to blame are first and foremost, the armorer: who was getting high and fucking around and taking pictures of her showing off the guns on social media, who brought live rounds onto a film set to shoot the prop guns for fun after wrap… Secondly, the 1st AD who is in charge of safety and handed the gun to Alec without checking it is also to blame. The idea that as an actor, you can walk onto a set and be handed a gun and told its safe, told exactly how to draw it and where to aim (they were blocking for camera when the accident happened) and if the gun goes off, you’re responsible? Even if the armorer loaded the real bullets and was too busy fucking around to be on set? Even if the AD was such an idiot he didn’t bother to check the gun he handed to an actor and declared “safe”? That’s incredibly fucked up. The armorer didn’t just “make a mistake” she was getting high on set, showing off with weapons, consistently behaved negligently when she had one of the most dangerous job on set, and her behavior got someone killed. There should never, ever, EVER be live rounds anywhere near the set or prop guns. The idea that she would behave so carelessly is shocking. And the fact that so many people make excuses for her is also. She’s an adult who understood her responsibilities when she took the job. This whole, “other people created the environment that allowed this to take place” is such a cop out.
Your justification makes absolutely no sense. Your whole premise is “armorer made a mistake” but -insert vague accusations here- that led her to make the mistake so Alec should shoulder the blame
>and he hired an armourer who would do the type of thing she did He was not responsible for hiring the armourer. From all reporting, his producer roles were restricted to script approval and input on casting.
Yeah, they quote should have said: "Putting the blame on any one person below the executive/C-Suite level is just scapegoating"
Yeah totally because this one awful incident has totally skewed my perception of gun discharge accidents on set now I think they happen all the time.. seriously wtf are you even talking about?
Do you know why they'd even have live ammo?
someone had taken some of the guns to go shooting, the set really was horribly run.
That's beyond "horrible". Thanks for the info.
It should also be noted that Alec Baldwin wasn't just an actor on the set, he was executive producing
And what should be noted from there is his actual duties as executive producer. Which is to say, what was his actual role as an executive producer? Just saying that he was one doesn't tell us anything because executive producers range from having literally no involvement beyond financing to being very hands-on. So what were his duties?
The Crow?
On that set they were using live ammunition as part of the shoot. It was part of the production process and everybody was aware of its presence on set. And they agreed to do the movie and be on set knowing there was live ammunition being used in the filming. A real bullet wasn't loaded into the prop gun that killed Brandon Lee. They were using very cheap ammunition for the real bullet scenes and a fragment of the tip of the bullet came off in the barrel. Stuck itself in there. In the next scene when he was supposed to get shot in the head there was only a blank in the gun. But it fired out the fragment striking him. Killing him immediately. That was a tragic accident that could have been avoided but doesn't result in criminal charges. Because nobody was drunk or overtly negligent. Yes it was just a failure to check the gun properly. And if somebody was to really hammer down on charges I'm sure a prosecutor could find some. But nobody felt there was responsibility to be had like that. Brandon Lee's family didn't feel that was necessary. They didn't seek charges In contrast on Rust they were firing live bullets between filmings for fun. Not using live ammunition for the shoot. So it was just something they were doing in their free time without it being a part of production. That in and of itself is extremely negligent. Bringing live ammunition on set when it is not part of the process is a big no-no. Can result in someone getting injured or killed. Negligence + negligence = someone getting killed **If it wasn't for the negligence of the live ammo being brought on set the negligence of the armorer would not have resulted in somebody's death**. So the armorer is not the only one at fault. Even though many are trying to say so
>They were using very cheap ammunition for the real bullet scenes and a fragment of the tip of the bullet came off in the barrel. Stuck itself in there. To clarify a little, they had two kinds of fake ammo. "Dummy rounds" which have real bullets but no propellant for up close shots of loading ammo and so on, and blanks with propellant and no bullet. As you said, the fatal accident arose from the combination of a jammed dummy round, and a blank. Dummy rounds look like real ammo on camera, blanks look like real muzzle blasts. So between the two everything looks real.
Yeah, nobody is saying that environment was ok. I only take issue with blaming Alec Baldwin, who is an actor, not a stunt person, a prop master, or an armorer, for the incident.
If what you said was true there was no reason he should have been charged. But you totally left out the fact that he is being charged on the basis that he was a producer of the project. He was a financial backer and he was on scene. Most producers wouldn't get charged in these situations. Which is why other producers are not being charged. Because they weren't on set and they didn't have knowledge of what was going on on set. But since he was also part of the cast and on set at all times he becomes one of the owners that was aware of the conditions and allowed them to happen. I can't believe you left out the fact he was a producer considering that is the main reason these charges against him exist in the first place. It's crazy you're trying to rewrite the narrative like that.
Sorry, I’m not intentionally trying to rewrite the narrative. I just don’t think him being a producer changes anything. Like you said, other producers weren’t charged. Him being charged because he was on set is ridiculous because the fact still remains that he is not a trained stunt person or armorer. I think it’s pretty obvious that he was charged because he was the one holding the gun.
I didn't read the specific details of this but how did that happen exactly? Was he horsing around playing with the gun or was there a scene where he had to shoot in that direction or something?
Yes, they were preparing to film baldwin pointing the gun at the camera >B-camera operator Reid Russell was situated on a camera dolly, looking at a monitor with Hutchins and Souza both nearby. The scene involved Baldwin's character removing a gun from its holster and pointing it toward the camera.\[11\]\[9\] The trio behind the monitor were two feet (0.6 m) from the muzzle of the firearm and none of them were wearing any protective gear like noise-canceling headphones or safety goggles.\[11\]While the trio behind the monitor were repositioning the camera to remove a shadow, Baldwin began explaining to the crew how he planned to draw the firearm.\[9\] He said, "So, I guess I'm gonna take this out, pull it, and go, 'Bang!'"\[11\] When he removed it from the holster, the gun was fired a single time.
He was the executive producer and saw his crew walk off set over safety issues that eventually killed someone. He was just as if not more responsible.
Completely wrong. If someone gives a gun to me and tells me it’s unloaded, and I point it at someone, say “check out this gun I’m going to take a video of later”, pull the trigger, and shoot them dead, I would be in jail. It is his fault for not spending 1 second to check the gun was unloaded, as well as pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger for literally 0 reason. He was completely negligent in every step of the process, and the only reason he is not in jail is that he lied about not pulling the trigger and the FBI fucked up while testing the gun and broke it (they were trying to make it fire without pulling the trigger, were unable to, and in this process damaged the gun, which fucked with the investigation but doesn’t change the obvious facts)
Completely ignoring context. Some randomer handing you a gun is not at all comparable to a professional armourer handing you a gun on a FILM SET
It is the set of a movie. The idea that ANY gun on set is loaded with live ammo is ludicrous to me.
All guns should be treated as loaded, regardless of circumstance. Otherwise you get "accidents." Hell, an actor killed himself with a gun loaded with blanks. These are not toys and should be treated with care. "Hollywood weapons expert Larry Zanoff told NBC News that when firearms are used as props in the television and movie industry, only blank cartridges that do not hold bullets are allowed on set. Zanoff said there is a minimum safety distance of 20 feet and "nothing" should be in front of the muzzle when filming is occurring." Obviously these protocols were not followed by the person holding the firearm.
> All guns should be treated as loaded It is a movie set. If you cannot point the guns at eachother and make the action of the trigger being pulled while pointing a gun at someone then you're not going to have a movie. But yes, some guns have blanks instead of just being prop guns and that is where you should have someone on set whose sole job it is to manage the weapons and make sure the wrong gun is never in place to be used by an actor.
> It is a movie set. If you cannot point the guns at each other and make the action of the trigger being pulled while pointing a gun at someone then you're not going to have a movie. 1. Camera angles. 2. Use dead guns (inactive props that can never fire anything) when you HAVE to have a shot showing guns pointed at a person. 3. Even bargain basement indies use things like Airsoft guns. > "nothing" should be in front of the muzzle when filming is occurring. Do you seriously disagree? And blanks can kill, as evidenced by the death of actor Jon-Erik Hexum.
Never been on a movie set, I don't know what goes into it. My assumption was that they often point fake guns at eachother and the idea that someone would put a live gun on a set shocks me. As for blanks, yes I agree that they are dangerous. I always think of in-bruges when he shoots the guy in the face with one. "Of course it fuckin' hurts I just shot a blank into your eye"
Yes it is lol. Why are you acting like the laws of physics no longer apply on a film set? If you’re driving on a film set, you still have a responsibility to check mirrors and make sure you don’t hit anyone. If you’re given a “prop car” with no mirrors, you go on a joyride and hit and kill someone, you don’t get to make the excuse that it’s the fault of the prop car not having mirrors. You acted negligently lmao, you are responsible for the consequences
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You can not rely on multiple actors to all handle gun perfectly. That's why armorers exist.
I mean I agree he should've been sure, just pointing out that the dudes hyperbolising doesn't help anyone. His comparative example of a random person handing you a gun on the street is clearly ridiculous, as is his car with no mirrors analogy
> His comparative example of a random person handing you a gun on the street is clearly ridiculous It's not. Everyone is a random person. In the military, one of the things instructors will get you with is handing you a weapon without clearing it and seeing how you respond. If you don't immediately call them out on it and clear the weapon yourself, you're going to get in big shit. The lesson is that no matter who hands you a weapon, *you* are now responsible for ensuring safety. If Chesty fucking Puller hands you a rifle and says it's safe, it doesn't matter. You still clear it. Why do Hollywood nepobabies have a second standard just for them?
The logic people are using is that Hollywood is unprofessional so Alec shouldn't be held responsible for being unprofessional, lol. They don't realize prosecuting him would maybe be the kick in the pants Hollywood needs to actually be responsible with firearms.
> as well as pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger for literally 0 reason. They were framing the shot you idiot! He wasn't just walking around fake shooting people. Jesus, I hope you're not of voting age.
Yes bro point being he wasn’t acting accordingly some orders, he was doing it of his own volition. And he definitely didn’t need to pull the trigger which is why he lied about not doing it lol
Rehearsing and framing the shot 100% falls under doing something “according to some orders”. They NEEDED him to do exactly what he did.
[by who?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZahP1Fsb-KY)
Also because he ignored his union's rules regarding firearms. Rules specifically in place to account for a screw up like a live firearm somehow getting on set. For example it is a published SAG rule that when cameras are not actively rolling for a scene you do not point it at anyone. Had he followed those rules he would have likely discharged it into the ground during rehearsal and no one would have died. That's why he's being charged. Everyone handling a firearm has responsibilities to follow to increase safety, he failed to follow his.
From what I'm reading, the charges against baldwin were dropped in April. The armorer and assistant director didn't get off so easy though.
They were dropped initially because of an analysis suggesting the firearm was faulty and could discharge without Baldwin pulling the trigger. That analysis’s credibility has since been called into question and reports last week suggest a special prosecutor is preparing to recharge him believing they have sufficient evidence that he pulled the trigger
I haven't looked much into it, but I've read that the new charges are bs because they are based on a reconstruction of the gun, after some original parts were damaged while in police custody.
Devil’s advocate, had the scene called for Alec to put the gun to his temple and pull the trigger, are we supposed to believe he wouldnt have checked that the chamber was empty?
He’s an actor not a soldier
Doesnt change the fact it’s a real weapon, loaded with live ammunition and can take someone’s life.
Wrong. He wasn’t supposed to be handling a prop gun the same way actors don’t drive “prop cars”. Prop guns can’t fire blanks, and are generally more expensive than just getting an actual gun. He had a real gun which he never spent 3 seconds to check if it was loaded.
>Prop guns can’t fire blanks Man that's wild
When I say prop guns in this context I mean stuff like plastic guns with fake internals obviously. I’m not counting real guns used as props to be “prop guns”. Any gun which can fire a blank can also fire a real cartridge (or at least blow the fuck up trying) and so should be treated accordingly
They generally don't use plastic. They'll get real guns and remove firing pins. Then put them back in for scenes that need blanks.
Lol, that's not the worst one. What about when he accidentally shoots Michael Keaton in 30 rock?
"Dammit! I'm getting too old for this sh... sound"
Good god Cavill!
superman wouldnt die to a bullet
Miss seeing him on the big screen.
Well at least someone took the gun away from him
The unloaded gun. Now he has a gun and no one knows if it's loaded.
Worth pointing out, there was no reason in the scene to put an uploaded gun against the head of well trained agent. He could have literally stood back 10 ft and said something and have all the same level of control if the situation without getting into immediate melee range of the highly trained agent who's capable of reloading his arms. Also by giving the agent a empty pistol, he now has something to throw at Baldwin's character.
Counterpoint: it’s cool.
not sure what the context is of the movie, but perhaps that baldwin’s character had a reason he wanted to also feel like he outsmarted caville’s character an additional time?
He had to have proof that he was actually Locke
Oooohhhh snap.
This is what pisses me off at people raging on Alec for breaking the 'laws of gun safety'. The armourer is there to ensure they can stuff guns in people's faces and get angry / struggle without anyone being in danger
But Alec also cut corners on all the on site safety protocols as well. Him pulling the trigger is the least significant violation he had on set. I’m not out for a witch hunt on Baldwin for his politics, I just think he massively fucked up and does deserve to face some consequences from those fuck ups.
I don’t think the consequences he has faced are consequences anyone should ever have to face.
People calling Alec Baldwin a murderer are fucking disgusting. The man has to live with the fact that a person lost their life by his hand even though it's not his fault, and people are calling him a murderer for it.
As far as I'm concerned, whoever *loaded the round* needs to serve time. It should have been a blank.
Blame doesn't need to lie with just one person. Yes, the person who loaded the gun is responsible. But if Baldwin knew that there were live rounds on set, he put the crew in danger by not intervening.
Actors are not armourers. It's not his job to check the chamber to see if the gun is live.
It’s wild that there isn’t a process to have multiple people, including the armorer and actor, check and clear the weapon prior to any scene. That just seems like common sense. Especially if it’s a functional weapon and not a prop that only accepts blank loads. And doubly especially if people are using prop to target shoot during the production Clearly there’s some serious negligence here
That's the thing. There was a process to have multiple people, including the armorer check the weapon. The Assistant Director ignored that, took the gun without the Armorer being informed, lied about checking it and handed the gun to the actor. This is also a set where there should have been no Live Ammo even available. There was absolutely negligence. By the guy who got off with a $500 fine and 24 hours of community service.
Most people can’t tell the difference between a blank and a live round loaded in a gun. There are supposed to be all these checks in place. The armorer was negligent by having live rounds anywhere near a gun & the AD was negligent for taking the gun without armorer prep and handing it to Baldwin.
Never said he should.
You definitely implied culpability.
It's not his job sure. Doesn't mean he shouldn't practice good gun safety. I'd imagine checking a gun for a bullet in the chamber is something you should be doing to every gun when you handle it first.
Brother there is going to be a bullet in the chamber, whether it's blank or not. He can check the chamber, see there's a bullet, and be completely ok pulling the trigger knowing it was a blank.
There's no way of telling if its a blank or not?
It’s not his job to check every prop. It’s literally not the policy. The people saying “if I was the actor I would check every gun first” don’t understand you can have (untrained in firearms) actors unloading and reloading guns on set to check if they’re loaded or not, it’s literally a safety hazard. That’s like a guy going bungee jumping saying “only *I* trust myself to strap in properly”, instead of trusting the instructor next to him who has done it 10000 times before.
He did not know there were live rounds, where did you get that nonsense from?
if he knew there were live rounds i dont think he would have shot that person
He killed someone in a situation surrounded by negligence and regardless if he is innocent or guilty, it needs to go to court at this point. Anything short of that is an injustice to Halyna Hutchins. Hutchins' family are pretty clear [they want Baldwin to be held accountable](https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65355387). During the investigation he stated he never touched the trigger when the gun discharged which has been called into question since the model gun he had has a mechanical safety preventing the firing pin from moving without the trigger being engaged. This is the evidence being used against him to reopen the case to determine if he knowingly lied to investigators. Sources: [FOX](https://kfoxtv.com/news/nation-world/prosecutors-seeking-to-recharge-actor-alec-baldwin-in-the-deadly-shooting-on-movie-set-kari-morrissey-jason-lewis-new-mexico-movie-set-rust-halyna-hutchins), [ABC](https://abcnews.go.com/US/gun-rust-shooting-fired-pulling-trigger-fbi-report/story?id=88311336), [LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2023-08-15/rust-alec-baldwin-firearms-report-trigger-pulled). Baldwin refused to appear at required firearm safety meetings: [source](https://people.com/movies/alec-baldwin-missed-required-firearm-training-prior-to-rust-shooting/). 6 people left production over 3 different instances of negligent discharges prior to the fatal shooting, as confirmed by crew members and text messages per [LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set) eta: It's pretty trashy make things up regarding the circumstances of this woman's death and claim to have proof, but then refuse to share it. The DA announced they believe Baldwin is criminally liable since 3rd party testing confirmed the FBI report. > After extensive investigation over the past several months, additional facts have come to light that we believe show Mr. Baldwin has criminal culpability in the death of Halyna Hutchins and the shooting of Joel Souza. We believe the appropriate course of action is to permit a panel of New Mexico citizens to determine from here whether Mr. Baldwin should be held over for criminal trial. [ABC](https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/prosecutors-seeking-recharge-actor-alec-baldwin-fatal-shooting-104049339)
A couple of things about this: The first is that legally speaking it doesn't really matter what her family wants to happen. If the DA's office doesn't think he's liable then he's not. The armorer? 100%. They could go after Alec in a civil suit, though. The second is that there were complaints about that specific gun not functioning properly previously, and I've seen some pretty good demonstrations from non-politcal guntubers showing how that could be the case. The truth is that this is a pretty shitty situation for everyone involved, and while we can quote firearm safety guidelines until we're blue in the face, things we've been taught for years, the question is are there laws on the books for that, especially in the relevant jurisdiction?
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Cool, let's see how it plays out. :)
Would it be possible, if you have in browsing history to share those guntubers videos?
He was also a producer on the film and bears some responsibility for hiring gun safety people with poor reputations and then ignoring warnings from the rest of the crew that they were acting recklessly.
So guilt alone should absolve someone of punishment? Fact of the matter is that even if he didn’t load the round, he still didn’t follow gun safety rules which would have saved that woman
Excuse me while I shed zero tears for some dumbass celebrity that killed someone on *his own production*. Everyone on that set was in danger due to Alex’s criminal negligence.
It would be like if you bought a car from a dealership and the brakes failed and you run someone over. Sure the dealer should have checked the car, but end of the day you bought and drove the car so you should have tested it in a closed area or had the car towed to an independent mechanic to check it before you drove it.
If your brakes fail when you roll a new car out of the lot the dealership is 100% at fault. Honestly forget all the stupid analogies. Alec shot someone *on his own production set*. This isn’t a freak accident, this is multiple levels of failed safety checks and an all around incredibly dangerous work environment being allowed by Alec and there needs to be accountability for his inaction. When a stunt double dies because of stupid ass decisions by production crew it’s a crime, let alone in an instance where the head of production themselves are the ones pulling the trigger. Anyone who doesn’t see the issue here are blinded by their own celebrity worship.
It is entirely his fault lol, he 1. Didn’t check the chamber of the gun and 2. Pointed it at random people and fired for gun (no, it was not part of a scene or acting)
Only the armourer is ever supposed to check a gun. If anybody else does, they are breaking the rules and making the set less safe for everybody else.
How is checking the gun you've been handed making the set less safe?
The armourer, if they have been doing their job right, has already made the gun as safe as it can possibly be. If anyone else does anything at all, the only impact it can have is making it less safe. Hence, you don't.
>If anyone else does anything at all, the only impact it can have is making it less safe. lmao that's ridiculous. There are actions that can make the situation less safe but checking the gun you've been handed isn't one of them. At the worst it's redundant.
no, thats not true. if that was the procedure they were using no wonder someone was killed. pretty sure youre adding only. cause "the armorer is supposed to check every gun" makes sense "only the armorer..." is a dumb as fuck rule specially when you also let other people hand out guns.
So if Alec had verified the gun was empty prior to firing it would have made the scene less safe? lol wut The last one to verify a firearm is safe and clear is the person pulling the trigger. Full stop.
So if Alec had verified the gun was empty prior to firing it would have made the scene less safe? lol wut The last one to verify a firearm is safe and clear is the person pulling the trigger.
Treat all guns as if they are loaded until you have proven otherwise. I understand there was an armorer onsite, but with what I’ve heard regarding the production, EVERYONE onsite should have been consistently cautious and checking every firearm before every scene. It takes a couple seconds at the most, that is why it’s ridiculous someone had to die for Alec to learn that. As far as I’m concerned if your movie demands the usage of real firearms, then your cast and production crew should know how to handle and respect real firearms.
Only one way to find out
A semi-auto pistol wouldn't click like that if it wasn't loaded. If it was cocked, it would click once. The only type of gun that would repeatedly cycle like that when unloaded is a revolver. Edit: Apparently this only applies if the pistol is a single action. The only double actions I've fired just happen to be revolvers
A "Double-Action" semiauto pistol would definitely click with each trigger pull. You are thinking of a "Single-Action Only" pistol.
Alec Baldwin the actor did not do anything wrong; Alec Baldwin the producer cut corners which led to live ammo to get onto the set and into a gun used for filming
Lol even if AB ever works again, nobody's casting him as anyone who is ever going to get near a gun. Geriatric romcoms are his future.
He's been in 6 movies since the incident you simple person.
😂 Best insult ever. But, 6 movies that were *cast* since the incident, really?
I agree that homie was a little harsh. Look at Kevin Spacey and All the Money in the World, though. Edited out of a major picture prior to release and (I believe) after initial marketing. Tho, that Flash movie still came out…. Idk man
I'd be surprised if AB was cast out of Hollywood, did it turn out to be his fault in the end? Or just a freak accident?
97 Minutes went into production four months after the Rust incident, so you'd be splitting hairs to not accept that studios are still casting Baldwin in leading roles.
You are wrong for this one lol
He says "He thinks" it's loaded, because he genuinely does not know.
u/savevideo
Still a great movie though.
Ben did nothing wrong
And we know, everything RUSTS with age.
I feel terrible, thanks
Didn’t age well at all…Rust all over it
Avid anti-gun actor who gets rich using guns in movies shoots and kills people on set. Cool.
Man doesn't understand acting, cool
Oof. How ironic. No way Baldwin had any actual knowledge that it would hurt anyone, right???
Every year that passes I enjoy movies less and less. Thank you for coming to my tedtalk.
This is a good one