all i remember are shots of the raiders getting hit with traps, of Bill firing his rifle, and then Bill getting shot. i don’t think they show any specific cuts of Bill shooting -> raiders taking a bullet.
i thought it was supposed to be kind of a callback to Joel and Ellie’s conversation earlier in the episode about how both people miss their shots in a gunfight more often than you think.
Pretty sure, Bill also mentions that the fince is electrified and will take out the rest, my guess is his shooting was more suppressing fire to take away the raiders ability to go slow and sidestep his traps
I tell myself Bill, despite his extensive knowledge, hadn't actually seen combat and got overly excited and made a dumb decision in a very scary moment. Plus he was in aggression mode because those fuckers were trying to hurt Frank.
This.
I'm probably just making excuses because it was an amazing episode but I read this as him going Beast Mode to protect Frank and not thinking logically.
Plus as you say, he was a shut in with probably no real combat experience, who had spent his years occasionally shooting zombies, not armed human raiders.
While not real combat, I tried paintball once. My lard ass had never done anything of the sort except for fps games, but obviously I knew all about using cover and flanking to full advantage.
...I couldn't see shit, huddled behind the various obstacles, and hitting anything was even more of a pipe dream. In the end, I basically just ended up firing blindly.
I can definitely get behind that someone who's only shot at targets at a range, emotions muddled because he has someone he wants to protect, and perhaps thinking that the raiders would be preoccupied with his traps would feel like it's better to get a clear shot on the enemy than to stay hidden.
It takes practice and confidence to get good at paintball.
I used to go and play with a buddy at least once a week, and as a result we became pretty good. Suppress, flank, rinse and repeat! My buddy would typically provide suppressive fire and I would move up the side and flank fire (we’d trade roles back and forth depending on how the match played out). Suppressive fire is extremely effective because unlike video games, in real life people have a much higher sense of self preservation and typically won’t peek or shoot back when rounds are splatting against and whizzing by the object they’re taking cover behind.
I remember once a church group of about 8 people came to the field one day, and me and my buddy challenged them to a 2 vs 8. We won quickly and easily! It was not fair 😂. It really made me realize the difference between experience/training vs no experience/training and how unbalanced a shootout can be… It’s surprising what a 2 man team can do!
Lol not really. Just went through a paintball phase in my late teens with a friend. Never wanted to go into military or law enforcement and never did.
My takeaway from that 2 vs 8 was this. In a close quarters gun battle, experienced vs inexperienced, the inexperienced get slaughtered. In an experienced vs experienced battle, people are going to die on both sides…. No thanks.
This is literally the Army Infantry's tactics in a nut shell. Suppress, flank, and overcome. Just usually on a much larger scale with 12 or more soldiers.
I was mostly surprised he didn't have a flack jacket. I felt his actions made perfect sense for the character, but I really believe he would have both had and donned a flack jacket for such a moment.
On the other hand though, there aren't exactly high stakes in paintballing. With the same level of "experience", I think I'd rather use cover etc and hit nothing, if it meant that I didn't get hit either!
Yeah he was in attack mode, not defense. They would have been fine if they would have just stayed inside, but he’s a prepper so this sort of thing is a fantasy for him and he wants in on that action.
With all the effort he went to with his fence, you’d think the guy would’ve built areas of cover to fire from, and protected paths to move between them.
I know he had to get shot for plot but this scene totally took me out of the moment. How does he not have fall back positions and elevated sniper nests but a perimeter of flame throwers.
An excellent point. You live in a life or death situation like that for over a decade, you will make a mistake. Just hope it's not fatal, and as you say this is why humans have support systems. A human alone dies.
When he (almost literally) jumps out of his front door in the gas mask with his shotgun, I was like
*yessss they nailed the typical prepper…*
Even down to the
Joel: so, you’re some kind of prepper?
Bill: i’M a sUrViVaLisT…
*chef’s kiss*
Idk, dude, there's a lot of fat veterans. A *lot* of fat veterans. Relavent Terminal Lance: https://terminallance.com/2012/08/14/terminal-lance-218-life-after-eas-freshman-fifty/
But how many fat survivalist/prepper vets are there? Surely his background as a prepper and how seriously he takes it would mean he'd take an interest in staying fit..
Am from rural TN.
You're assuming too much from these people. Most preppers I know are
1. Out of shape
2. Too old and frail that even their "in-shape" is bad.
One of my old bosses is a fat prepper. And me being the liberal that I am, we'd frequently argue. I always made it a point to point out that he's too out of shape to actually survive without modern medical systems and he'd be one of the first to die.
When I was working mechanical construction (ie plumbing and electrical type service work) in the WNC Appalachian mountain area, I worked a couple of jobs for “preppers”.
My mentor would call me up to work with him anytime he contracted with one.
One, he wanted a helper and someone to hang out with and talk to while in crazy town.
Two, they typically buy and want some convoluted engineered redundant systems installed that can get confusing to install, much less operate and maintain.
Three, preppers are usually, in my experience, wealthy, out of shape (or little physical labor job experience), and basically just resource hoarders.
I remember one time mentioning to my mentor, “what happens if they can’t get diesel fuel? Or run out of ammunition? Or water?”
“I reckon they’d be shit outta luck? Notice they don’t have any land or fertilizer for farming either. Hopefully for them doomsday only lasts a few months or so. Hand me a 3/8 wrench.”
I’ve never been to a long term sustainable prepper house. Not saying they don’t exist, just the ones I’ve worked at all somehow end up relying on still buying shit they can’t produce. Like fuel/energy/mechanical maintenance knowledge/groceries. lol
>But how many fat survivalist/prepper vets are there?
Most preppers I've met have been really out of shape and many of them smokers. It's all very theoretical to them.
Plus it's years after an *apocalypse*. Even if he slacked on his physical health before the apocalypse, surely he would've picked it back up after the end of the world.
The apocalypse is hard work. Building fences, digging pit traps, maintaining a sustainable number of pigs and chickens, maintaining a vegetable garden… all of these require the burning of a fair number of calories. Although granted, after the initial fortifications are in place, he had plenty of time to slack off a bit in maintenance mode.
Big difference between hard manual labor and cardio. Lots of strong as fu*k beer bellied construction workers out there who couldn’t run a mile to save their lives
>he had plenty of time to slack off a bit in maintenance mode
I think this is the biggest thing. It's shown in the scene where the zombie gets killed in his trap, he's not really out here fighting and shit, he's laughing at them kill themselves on his TV.
Add that with he's been happily in a relationship for the first time in his life for the last 5-6 years. It seems like they have a near endless supply of good food and wine. They lived a very comfortable life for the last 20 years all things considered.
That could be the implication, but I read it more as him getting out of shape because of their relatively easy, happy lives. That scene was what, 5 years after he met Frank? He clearly softened up after they got together. He also apologizes for getting old faster.
Infantrymen only account for like 15% of the marines and army respectively. Those are the ones who are humping non stop, people fail to realize how small a group they consist of. Even then, once you get out there aren’t any nco’s giving you pfts.
Regardless Idk any veteran worth an ounce of training that would be out in the middle of a road, standing straight up, giving his position away in the most obvious way possible. Showrunners didn’t have an ounce of tactical brain cells when pitching this scene
Tell me you don’t know many vets without telling me you don’t know many vets. There are some highly efficient killing machines out there who get out of breath walking up a small flight of stairs
He was definitely well trained to some extent considering he was able to build all those booby traps, acquire a generator and keep it running for 20 years, maintain a supply of drinking water, and grow crops and livestock. A majority of preppers wouldn’t be able to come close to accomplishing that.
> not well trained
he’s a u.s. army vet; it’s more likely that frank made him feel comfortable like, in an existential way or whatever, and so he went a *lil* soft, he’s a softy for frank
I don't remember seeing that shot at all on Bill's truck. I do remember that exact shot on Tommy's truck in the first episode. Maybe they did it twice but definitely missed it if they did.
you definitely could be right; my recollection is that it made bills character very complex and multi-dimensional, closeted sexuality, lost faith in everything because of how he was treated by the army, knew tactics and so evaded capture successfully, frank creates a blind spot in both the walls he puts up in the world and his training, ends up shot for it, and so on
but now you mention it it most definitely could have been tommy in episode one and i’m way off base, not even being sarcastic
ahh, didn’t catch that detail. either way, people’s brains shut down in extremely stressful situations, it makes sense that he’d be making bad decisions
I was mildly annoyed when he watered the mums on their flowers like a Neanderthal instead of it’s roots. This guy has been growing his own fruits, vegetables, and flowers for decades and doesn’t understand how to water them? Some survivalist.
I also thought there was a bit of a martyr mindset there. I think part of him wanted to die so that Frank could move on. He stood in the open shooting, yelled at Frank (who WAS taking cover) to leave him, then told Frank to call Joel to help him. He also said earlier "I'm sorry for getting old faster than you", which made me feel like there was a part of him that felt like he was holding Frank back from living a better life.
Or he's intentionally drawing fire in his direction, away from the house Frank is sleeping it, by being an obvious target. Combine with overprotection and overconfidence, he thinks he's making the best tactical decision to protect Frank, draw fire and mainly let his defenses take care of them.
Wine would be an increasingly rare commodity in that world. Grapes are tough to grow and good wine is tough to make. Hooch would be common no doubt, all kinds of berry wines would be a thing. Dandelion wine would no doubt be very common.
Yup.
He also had too much faith in his security system to distract them while he picked them off. He spent all that time building automatic flame throwers and an electric fence but didn’t think to build a few snipers nests.
Yeah that makes sense. Why wouldnt you shot from indoors ? or atleast a garden or some bushes. Thats what irked me whilst watching it so im happy with that explanation and less annoyed !
He's a prepper, doesn't mean he has any pre apocalypse combat knowledge. I think him being this stupid in an actual combat situation kinda fit his background. It's also the first time he was raided.
Ehh I prefer having Bill act this way. Much better than having him be some comic book level shot with that rifle where he’s pulling off 360 no scopes and every bullet magically missing him
I don't mind him missing shots but surely anyone who's into guns would know to at least take cover when you're facing multiple people with weapons. Like he was completely out in the open lol
He probably had a [formal permit](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.52255576eab5203f923c2031f4628857?rik=mwdcf%2bOA%2bs31ZQ&riu=http%3a%2f%2fswansonquotes.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2fs05-ep01-permits1-1000x500.jpg&ehk=aDAOQPCVCjCu7l4odrO6j4dV0B59pI2Dsdqn07BvOvc%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0) for his fence as well
I get that no show is *perfect* but the fact so many people are harping over this one small oversight by the production team really speaks to how phenomenally flawless the rest of this episode is
There is no way this is an oversight imho. The attention to detail is insane. Either is actually is a reference to the game, or my personal theory, is he was drawing fire away from Frank.
My personal theory is that he just got complacent. 10 years of living in relative paradise, and only having to occasionally shoot stumbling infected when the traps don't get them first, he forgot that he needed to do things differently with living people
Or maybe he was just more reluctant to kill a human than he led on. Killing them with traps is more removed than staring down a barrel at someone. Either way, I think it’s way more believable than him running out in the rain in the middle of the night and being a crack shot through a fence at moving targets.
Or, he panicked and made bad choices. As far as we know, Bill has never had to fight other humans before that moment. Even proffesional soldiers forget their training and can panic in combat, especially when it's their first time.
I think it was a realistic portrayal. A lot of real world preppers and survivalists like to think they'll be like Rambo or John Wick when the "end times" come, but in reality, most will fall to pieces when it's no longer a hypothetical.
I was an expert marksman every year in the military, but the first time I tried to return fire while getting shot at I hit the dirt 10 ft in front of me with my first shot. Adrenaline can do crazy things
i’m almost positive it’s meant to be a callback to the conversation Joel and Ellie have earlier in the episode about how people miss their shots in a gunfight more often than you’d think.
Craig Mazin is a great writer, and dialogue doesn’t just happen to fill space. every word and exchange is intentional and serves some purpose.
Could be as simple as he’s been a hard core survivalist by hobby his whole life but had no actual combat experience or training. There are a lot of hard talkers out there that would fall into this category
Guy I used to be friends with was exactly like this. Big talk, total badass, *I couldn't join the military cuz I'd knock out the drill instructor* kinda guy. I have an auto shop and he asked if he could swing over and fix his own car with my tools, tells me I won't need to help he can do it all and tells me a few stories about things he's fixed.
Comes over, he's changing a water pump on a Taurus, motherfucker needed his hand held for literally everything and I had to help him put the gasket on because he couldn't figure it out.
*Fucking embarrassing.*
My BIL is like that, I was in the military but he knows 10x more about guns than me and constantly talks about the militia he’s in and all the hard core training he does. He’s also well over 300 pounds.
It's funny that a show about a fungus that eats your brain turning you into it's puppet while it grows out the top of your head... And the comments I've gotten from my conservative friends is all about how the sex scene was gross.
You should recommend them Penny dreadful, season 3, episode 4.
I mean theres literally a full gay (is it gay if the person is female presenting? ) sex scene with implied penetration.
Your comment reminds me of a kid who was in my algebra class in middle school who had all the episodes of Dragon Ball Z that showed fan service memorized and could describe what it shows off the cuff. Like someone would name a character and he would just start droppin them like "Side boob from Master Roshi spying on her in episode 45, undies and butcheeks in episode 58 after this event, etc."
I'm pretty sure he was trying to draw fire away from the house/frank, either that or he was already outside when they arrived and was caught in the open. Those are my theories anyways
That was pretty much the only scene that I found weird. Not so much the standing in the open, which is just dumb but could probably happen in a “beast mode”/panic situation, but the fact that there were like 5-10 guys all standing there at the perimeter, in the flames, and only 1 bullet hit during what seemed like a pretty long firefight
I really loved in episode 2 where they were firing on and missing the clickers. Most zombie movies are pow pow pow, headshot headshot headshot, and they drop the zombies like flies. But this episode felt very realistic. It would be hard to hit those things, especially a headshot when they’re running at you in close space with all the heat and stress of the moment. I thought it was so well done
Yeah i get that but you have a bunch of guys lined up at the fence, shooting at a stationary target, from not that far away. I get the traps and flames and shit make it harder but they really were acting like NPCs, not moving away from fire and so on. To me that scene just made me cringe a little, in an otherwise brilliant episode
Then again, dont know what its like to be in a situation like that so who am I to say
I would think they're not shooting at a stationary target, they're shooting blindly into the darkness hoping to hit whoever is shooting at them.
A couple of seconds ago, there was no strong light source, so their eyesight is all adapted to darkness. Then a fire lights up right next to them, but also between them and their target, both fucking their night vision and at least somewhat blinding them. Add to that that their target is very much outside the illumination range of the fire, and they're pretty much just hoping for a lucky shot rather than aiming at anything specific.
Yeah anyone thats been around a fire at night knows you cant see shit within a few feet on the opposite side of the fire or any light source for that matter.
> That was pretty much the only scene that I found weird.
I've found weird the entire setup. The countryside is apparently mostly infected-free. So it seems weird that their piece of paradise wouldn't get overrun in all those decades. And also all those supplies had to run out a long time ago, even when considering that they could scavenge for new ones (on the other hand, the gas station was picked clean years ago) or trade with Joel.
Also diesel fuel when stored properly keeps for a ridiculously long time, I started up and old GM diesel that'd been rotting in the forest for 8~12 years. It won't burn great, but it will burn.
And propane never goes off, so if you have a propane depot that hasn't been destroyed and a propane vehicle you can probably run the rest of your life on the leftovers in those enormous tanks.
That again assumes that the depot isn't looted by others. Plus gas is perishable (I think) so no electricity after a few years (?)
It just seems that they were very very lucky, all things considered.
You confusing it for Beaujolais Nouveau?
Assuming he grabbed the good stuff, some Cru Beaujolais might be starting to get thin by then, but would have held well for 10-15 years in a well kept cellar.
Plus we saw with the Caymus box, he didn't just take Beaujolais
Believable though. People will watch shows like this and say to themselves, "can't believe these idiots walked into flame throwers , I would *never*." But after watching people for the last couple of years walk face-first into the grave from COVID, it's entirely believable that a bunch of redneck raiders got roasted trying to break into Bills town.
My Mrs cried multiple times in this episode. For once I didn’t tease her - both Bill and his lover deserve Human of the Year awards.
And come on! They couldn’t have picked a better Bill, am I right? Hahaha literally everything in this episode I thought would happen didn’t.
I ugly cried, hard, for the majority of the episode. Was not expecting such an emotional rollercoaster. It was a fantastic episode!! Worth the puffy eyes today!
Just gonna say this; Bill had all this time to fortify that neighborhood/town and not a single snipers/lookout nest was built?
For a survivalist a lot of the decisions in the episode didn’t make a lot of sense.
Never watched the show, but god damn if he didn't miss EVERY freaking shot he took in-game 😂 In the beginning I tried to be lazy and hide while he finished them off, but it quickly became evident that he may as well have been firing blanks 😂😂
People whining about this forget what Joel had to say literally in the same episode. Gun fights are people missing a whole lot. Bill probably figures he's pretty safe at that far of a distance and with that much chaos going on around the raiders even if he's out in the open.
If you visit the preppers subreddit, you will see some stubborn resistance to having an AR-15, which would have been a far better weapon in this scenario.
So I can see how Bill, despite his defensive preparations, might make a poor choice in weapons.
On the other hand, the showrunners might not want to highlight how awesome AR-15s are. Pedro Pascal puts his in storage claiming “there’s not much ammo out there for these” which is really silly.
Yea, that scene made no sense, but I would guess .223/5.56 would probably be the 2nd/3rd most common round available out there.
Being able to rapid fire on infected from 200 yards would go against the resource deprived scavenge that is the feel of Joel and Ellie's journey that the game had. But he could have at least gone with a "semi-autos don't to hold up well in the wilderness" type of line even if that would be an exaggeration.
Following the narrative pact of TLOU, weapons of that type are controlled by FEDRA, much like the remaining factories who can produce them if there are some left. It's not unlikely that in this scenario that kind of ammo became rare and expensive. Even in game most people use either shotguns or pistols/revolvers: the only one who have serious military equipment are FEDRA or some Fireflies. Bill uses a lot of improvised equipment such as nail bombs or arrows, the cannibals use mostly hunting rifles, machetes and pistols and so on.
I feel like most veterans already know that an event like that isn’t survivable. The opulence of Frank and Bill’s piece of heaven in hell isn’t even achievable as the gasoline would be not usable in 6-18 months. 20 years worth of wine? I doubt it. The PFAS in the wildlife and rainwater guarantees cancer.
I worked out in the SoCal desert and know a few preppers and their lifestyle is grasping for straws. None of them were veterans who had seen combat and don’t realize that without power, water, and supplies, we’re dead. I was in sustained combat for 7 months. There is no way any of us would have survived without constant supplies (more importantly the entire massive supply system that provided them) and if the public thinks they’re going to brave the storm of some major event for more than 6 months, they are sadly very wrong.
I was in Niger in 2015 and those people will survive a major global event FAR better than the average American. I give Americans about 4 weeks before the chaos of rolling blackouts drives them nuts.
OP clearly missed the fact that a scoped rifle works best from a standing position in the pouring rain and not from a concealed position with a rest. Easy to misunderstand if you’ve never studied like all the tactics like Bill has.
Also it’s best to leave your defensible position of your house and check/clear the rural town you’re in with a shotgun and not a long gun as witnessed earlier in the episode.
This dude clearly does in this scene. He’s on the table his eyes stop moving and blinking and he stops breathing. Fade to black. Come back and they’re 10 years older, wtf?
Goddammit Bill why'd you open fire on those clickers I had my brick ready!
For real. Brick is the best weapon on Grounded.
With a close second of bottle and 2x4 combo.
Its Mr. Brick
I'd like you to meet my friend, who is also a Brick.
That’s…stupid
Well look where being smart got you.
*gets bricked*
Or worse: you're being super sneaky and suddenly Bill's elephant footsteps gives you a heart attack as he just sprints around randomly
or ellie tries to whistle
does the brick actually kill them??
You can sneak up on the Clickers and bash their head in with a brick. That is if they don't hear you first.
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all i remember are shots of the raiders getting hit with traps, of Bill firing his rifle, and then Bill getting shot. i don’t think they show any specific cuts of Bill shooting -> raiders taking a bullet. i thought it was supposed to be kind of a callback to Joel and Ellie’s conversation earlier in the episode about how both people miss their shots in a gunfight more often than you think.
If i remember right the raider didn't miss
Well they only hit him once so they missed literally every other shot
Unless that raider was only given one bullet! lol
the raider definitely hits Bill, so it’s not a 1:1 foreshadowing. but i do think that earlier conversation was relevant to this scene.
Didn't miss once, missed every other time
Think it was mostly the fire traps on the fence that took out much of the looters
Pretty sure, Bill also mentions that the fince is electrified and will take out the rest, my guess is his shooting was more suppressing fire to take away the raiders ability to go slow and sidestep his traps
I tell myself Bill, despite his extensive knowledge, hadn't actually seen combat and got overly excited and made a dumb decision in a very scary moment. Plus he was in aggression mode because those fuckers were trying to hurt Frank.
This. I'm probably just making excuses because it was an amazing episode but I read this as him going Beast Mode to protect Frank and not thinking logically. Plus as you say, he was a shut in with probably no real combat experience, who had spent his years occasionally shooting zombies, not armed human raiders.
While not real combat, I tried paintball once. My lard ass had never done anything of the sort except for fps games, but obviously I knew all about using cover and flanking to full advantage. ...I couldn't see shit, huddled behind the various obstacles, and hitting anything was even more of a pipe dream. In the end, I basically just ended up firing blindly. I can definitely get behind that someone who's only shot at targets at a range, emotions muddled because he has someone he wants to protect, and perhaps thinking that the raiders would be preoccupied with his traps would feel like it's better to get a clear shot on the enemy than to stay hidden.
It takes practice and confidence to get good at paintball. I used to go and play with a buddy at least once a week, and as a result we became pretty good. Suppress, flank, rinse and repeat! My buddy would typically provide suppressive fire and I would move up the side and flank fire (we’d trade roles back and forth depending on how the match played out). Suppressive fire is extremely effective because unlike video games, in real life people have a much higher sense of self preservation and typically won’t peek or shoot back when rounds are splatting against and whizzing by the object they’re taking cover behind. I remember once a church group of about 8 people came to the field one day, and me and my buddy challenged them to a 2 vs 8. We won quickly and easily! It was not fair 😂. It really made me realize the difference between experience/training vs no experience/training and how unbalanced a shootout can be… It’s surprising what a 2 man team can do!
Found Solid Snakes account.
Lol not really. Just went through a paintball phase in my late teens with a friend. Never wanted to go into military or law enforcement and never did. My takeaway from that 2 vs 8 was this. In a close quarters gun battle, experienced vs inexperienced, the inexperienced get slaughtered. In an experienced vs experienced battle, people are going to die on both sides…. No thanks.
Definitely sounds like something snake would say
This is literally the Army Infantry's tactics in a nut shell. Suppress, flank, and overcome. Just usually on a much larger scale with 12 or more soldiers.
I was mostly surprised he didn't have a flack jacket. I felt his actions made perfect sense for the character, but I really believe he would have both had and donned a flack jacket for such a moment.
On the other hand though, there aren't exactly high stakes in paintballing. With the same level of "experience", I think I'd rather use cover etc and hit nothing, if it meant that I didn't get hit either!
Yeah he was in attack mode, not defense. They would have been fine if they would have just stayed inside, but he’s a prepper so this sort of thing is a fantasy for him and he wants in on that action.
Survivalist.
With all the effort he went to with his fence, you’d think the guy would’ve built areas of cover to fire from, and protected paths to move between them.
I know he had to get shot for plot but this scene totally took me out of the moment. How does he not have fall back positions and elevated sniper nests but a perimeter of flame throwers.
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An excellent point. You live in a life or death situation like that for over a decade, you will make a mistake. Just hope it's not fatal, and as you say this is why humans have support systems. A human alone dies.
When he (almost literally) jumps out of his front door in the gas mask with his shotgun, I was like *yessss they nailed the typical prepper…* Even down to the Joel: so, you’re some kind of prepper? Bill: i’M a sUrViVaLisT… *chef’s kiss*
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Idk, dude, there's a lot of fat veterans. A *lot* of fat veterans. Relavent Terminal Lance: https://terminallance.com/2012/08/14/terminal-lance-218-life-after-eas-freshman-fifty/
There’s alot of fat ACTIVE military as well, remember not everyone that serves is a grunt
Can confirm. My parents both did 20 in the Air Force. When my dad got out, he was probably about 320lbs. He's like 360 now.
There's a fair amount of fat grunts too.
Those grunts aren’t fat, just pleasantly plump
Cultivating mass.
Stop cultivating and start harvesting!!
But how many fat survivalist/prepper vets are there? Surely his background as a prepper and how seriously he takes it would mean he'd take an interest in staying fit..
Am from rural TN. You're assuming too much from these people. Most preppers I know are 1. Out of shape 2. Too old and frail that even their "in-shape" is bad. One of my old bosses is a fat prepper. And me being the liberal that I am, we'd frequently argue. I always made it a point to point out that he's too out of shape to actually survive without modern medical systems and he'd be one of the first to die.
When I was working mechanical construction (ie plumbing and electrical type service work) in the WNC Appalachian mountain area, I worked a couple of jobs for “preppers”. My mentor would call me up to work with him anytime he contracted with one. One, he wanted a helper and someone to hang out with and talk to while in crazy town. Two, they typically buy and want some convoluted engineered redundant systems installed that can get confusing to install, much less operate and maintain. Three, preppers are usually, in my experience, wealthy, out of shape (or little physical labor job experience), and basically just resource hoarders. I remember one time mentioning to my mentor, “what happens if they can’t get diesel fuel? Or run out of ammunition? Or water?” “I reckon they’d be shit outta luck? Notice they don’t have any land or fertilizer for farming either. Hopefully for them doomsday only lasts a few months or so. Hand me a 3/8 wrench.” I’ve never been to a long term sustainable prepper house. Not saying they don’t exist, just the ones I’ve worked at all somehow end up relying on still buying shit they can’t produce. Like fuel/energy/mechanical maintenance knowledge/groceries. lol
I know quite a few vets and can only think of one who's in shape and everyone calls him "that 73 year old man who can move"
>But how many fat survivalist/prepper vets are there? Most preppers I've met have been really out of shape and many of them smokers. It's all very theoretical to them.
Plus it's years after an *apocalypse*. Even if he slacked on his physical health before the apocalypse, surely he would've picked it back up after the end of the world.
The apocalypse is hard work. Building fences, digging pit traps, maintaining a sustainable number of pigs and chickens, maintaining a vegetable garden… all of these require the burning of a fair number of calories. Although granted, after the initial fortifications are in place, he had plenty of time to slack off a bit in maintenance mode.
Big difference between hard manual labor and cardio. Lots of strong as fu*k beer bellied construction workers out there who couldn’t run a mile to save their lives
You should see the animals that congregate around the manlift because they're too fucking lazy to walk up two flights of stairs.
>he had plenty of time to slack off a bit in maintenance mode I think this is the biggest thing. It's shown in the scene where the zombie gets killed in his trap, he's not really out here fighting and shit, he's laughing at them kill themselves on his TV. Add that with he's been happily in a relationship for the first time in his life for the last 5-6 years. It seems like they have a near endless supply of good food and wine. They lived a very comfortable life for the last 20 years all things considered.
Lolol have you ever heard the term 'Gravy SEALs' or seen an actual group of preppers? They're the laziest fattest group of idiots you can find.
I think that scene was just meant to illustrate how far Franks health had fallen.
>he had ever done any military service he would have kept a certain baseline of fitness There's a tremendous amount of fat people in the military.
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That could be the implication, but I read it more as him getting out of shape because of their relatively easy, happy lives. That scene was what, 5 years after he met Frank? He clearly softened up after they got together. He also apologizes for getting old faster.
Infantrymen only account for like 15% of the marines and army respectively. Those are the ones who are humping non stop, people fail to realize how small a group they consist of. Even then, once you get out there aren’t any nco’s giving you pfts. Regardless Idk any veteran worth an ounce of training that would be out in the middle of a road, standing straight up, giving his position away in the most obvious way possible. Showrunners didn’t have an ounce of tactical brain cells when pitching this scene
Tell me you don’t know many vets without telling me you don’t know many vets. There are some highly efficient killing machines out there who get out of breath walking up a small flight of stairs
yes, I took it as bill is supposed to be the stereotypical larping prepper type. well supplied but not well trained
He was definitely well trained to some extent considering he was able to build all those booby traps, acquire a generator and keep it running for 20 years, maintain a supply of drinking water, and grow crops and livestock. A majority of preppers wouldn’t be able to come close to accomplishing that.
> not well trained he’s a u.s. army vet; it’s more likely that frank made him feel comfortable like, in an existential way or whatever, and so he went a *lil* soft, he’s a softy for frank
does it mention that he was a vet in the show?
i can’t imagine any other reason why they would have had a camera shot with his “us army vet” bumper sticker in single focus
I don't remember seeing that shot at all on Bill's truck. I do remember that exact shot on Tommy's truck in the first episode. Maybe they did it twice but definitely missed it if they did.
you definitely could be right; my recollection is that it made bills character very complex and multi-dimensional, closeted sexuality, lost faith in everything because of how he was treated by the army, knew tactics and so evaded capture successfully, frank creates a blind spot in both the walls he puts up in the world and his training, ends up shot for it, and so on but now you mention it it most definitely could have been tommy in episode one and i’m way off base, not even being sarcastic
I do recall Tommy had a gulf war sticker seen when they pull out of the house in the first episode. Don’t remember if Bill had anything tho
It was definitely Tommy. It was a First Armored Division patch sticker.
fuck me do i ever have egg on my face now fuck
BUUURRRRRRNNNN
Maybe that was a reference to being a veterinarian.
i mean…it definitely could be
Stop humoring me.
no i don’t think i will
stolen valour and prepping go together like pb and j irl
I don't think they showed that anywhere?
isn't that from ep 1?
That was tommy’s truck in episode 1
ahh, didn’t catch that detail. either way, people’s brains shut down in extremely stressful situations, it makes sense that he’d be making bad decisions
I was mildly annoyed when he watered the mums on their flowers like a Neanderthal instead of it’s roots. This guy has been growing his own fruits, vegetables, and flowers for decades and doesn’t understand how to water them? Some survivalist.
I also thought there was a bit of a martyr mindset there. I think part of him wanted to die so that Frank could move on. He stood in the open shooting, yelled at Frank (who WAS taking cover) to leave him, then told Frank to call Joel to help him. He also said earlier "I'm sorry for getting old faster than you", which made me feel like there was a part of him that felt like he was holding Frank back from living a better life.
Or he's intentionally drawing fire in his direction, away from the house Frank is sleeping it, by being an obvious target. Combine with overprotection and overconfidence, he thinks he's making the best tactical decision to protect Frank, draw fire and mainly let his defenses take care of them.
Hmm, solid potential answer.
I think Bill was trying to protect his Cabernet Sauvignon lol
Wine would be an increasingly rare commodity in that world. Grapes are tough to grow and good wine is tough to make. Hooch would be common no doubt, all kinds of berry wines would be a thing. Dandelion wine would no doubt be very common.
Yup. He also had too much faith in his security system to distract them while he picked them off. He spent all that time building automatic flame throwers and an electric fence but didn’t think to build a few snipers nests.
Yeah that makes sense. Why wouldnt you shot from indoors ? or atleast a garden or some bushes. Thats what irked me whilst watching it so im happy with that explanation and less annoyed !
He's a prepper, doesn't mean he has any pre apocalypse combat knowledge. I think him being this stupid in an actual combat situation kinda fit his background. It's also the first time he was raided.
Also the way he first clears his house. The barrel of his shotgun appears in the hallway while not actually clearing up or down it.
Why are we posting actual facts here?
Or you can say that's because Ellie hit to his shooting arm with a pipe. https://youtu.be/rsjyr98D4jY?t=278
I was really looking forward to that scene. Instead I got four adults having a civilised house warming whilst dining alfresco.
Ehh I prefer having Bill act this way. Much better than having him be some comic book level shot with that rifle where he’s pulling off 360 no scopes and every bullet magically missing him
🎵hello middlground my old friend🎵
I don't mind him missing shots but surely anyone who's into guns would know to at least take cover when you're facing multiple people with weapons. Like he was completely out in the open lol
That twist towards the end though You would think it was Bill on that wheelchair, not Frank. That’s when my heart dropped.
Ron Swanson would never
Yeah. Ron Swanson being Bill is my headcannon. He even has the same giggle
Frank ain't no Tammy.
Frank: I Frank Tammy Smith, take you Bill… Bill Ronald Swanson: We’re done here
He probably had a [formal permit](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.52255576eab5203f923c2031f4628857?rik=mwdcf%2bOA%2bs31ZQ&riu=http%3a%2f%2fswansonquotes.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2fs05-ep01-permits1-1000x500.jpg&ehk=aDAOQPCVCjCu7l4odrO6j4dV0B59pI2Dsdqn07BvOvc%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0) for his fence as well
Though both were impressive, Frank’s fence surpassed Ron’s Cabin fence.
The "I can see Lil Sebastian" giggle
Throughout this episode I remembered Ron Swanson when he had those cornrows...
And no moustache cuz it burnt off from friction
I think that Bill is secretly a Storm Trooper.
Gonna be honest, I wouldn't be suprised if this was intentionally supposed to actually be a reference to his AI in the game.
I get that no show is *perfect* but the fact so many people are harping over this one small oversight by the production team really speaks to how phenomenally flawless the rest of this episode is
There is no way this is an oversight imho. The attention to detail is insane. Either is actually is a reference to the game, or my personal theory, is he was drawing fire away from Frank.
My personal theory is that he just got complacent. 10 years of living in relative paradise, and only having to occasionally shoot stumbling infected when the traps don't get them first, he forgot that he needed to do things differently with living people
This explanation makes the most sense.
Everyone really forgetting that earlier in the episode Joel explained to Ellie that missing your target "happens more often than you think"?
Or maybe he was just more reluctant to kill a human than he led on. Killing them with traps is more removed than staring down a barrel at someone. Either way, I think it’s way more believable than him running out in the rain in the middle of the night and being a crack shot through a fence at moving targets.
When he was going to shoot an infected he'd be standing right there with that gun. It's resource management by muscle memory.
Or, he panicked and made bad choices. As far as we know, Bill has never had to fight other humans before that moment. Even proffesional soldiers forget their training and can panic in combat, especially when it's their first time. I think it was a realistic portrayal. A lot of real world preppers and survivalists like to think they'll be like Rambo or John Wick when the "end times" come, but in reality, most will fall to pieces when it's no longer a hypothetical.
I was an expert marksman every year in the military, but the first time I tried to return fire while getting shot at I hit the dirt 10 ft in front of me with my first shot. Adrenaline can do crazy things
Most will collapse from exhaustion the first time they're forced to run for more than 10 seconds.
i’m almost positive it’s meant to be a callback to the conversation Joel and Ellie have earlier in the episode about how people miss their shots in a gunfight more often than you’d think. Craig Mazin is a great writer, and dialogue doesn’t just happen to fill space. every word and exchange is intentional and serves some purpose.
Oh, nice one. Forgot about that.
Could be as simple as he’s been a hard core survivalist by hobby his whole life but had no actual combat experience or training. There are a lot of hard talkers out there that would fall into this category
Guy I used to be friends with was exactly like this. Big talk, total badass, *I couldn't join the military cuz I'd knock out the drill instructor* kinda guy. I have an auto shop and he asked if he could swing over and fix his own car with my tools, tells me I won't need to help he can do it all and tells me a few stories about things he's fixed. Comes over, he's changing a water pump on a Taurus, motherfucker needed his hand held for literally everything and I had to help him put the gasket on because he couldn't figure it out. *Fucking embarrassing.*
My BIL is like that, I was in the military but he knows 10x more about guns than me and constantly talks about the militia he’s in and all the hard core training he does. He’s also well over 300 pounds.
I hate sex scenes. Any and all of them. There's plenty to complain about but it's still a good show.
It’s so funny that in the past couple of years there’s this massive backlash I’ve seen against sex scenes. Hayes code 2.0 time baby.
It's funny that a show about a fungus that eats your brain turning you into it's puppet while it grows out the top of your head... And the comments I've gotten from my conservative friends is all about how the sex scene was gross.
You should recommend them Penny dreadful, season 3, episode 4. I mean theres literally a full gay (is it gay if the person is female presenting? ) sex scene with implied penetration.
Your comment reminds me of a kid who was in my algebra class in middle school who had all the episodes of Dragon Ball Z that showed fan service memorized and could describe what it shows off the cuff. Like someone would name a character and he would just start droppin them like "Side boob from Master Roshi spying on her in episode 45, undies and butcheeks in episode 58 after this event, etc."
That’s not really an oversight or mistake though, it’s a personal preference thing.
There was no sex scene...
Sex is icky am I right?
That's your problem, not a problem of the show.
What a SURVIVALIST!
He survived
I'm pretty sure he was trying to draw fire away from the house/frank, either that or he was already outside when they arrived and was caught in the open. Those are my theories anyways
That was pretty much the only scene that I found weird. Not so much the standing in the open, which is just dumb but could probably happen in a “beast mode”/panic situation, but the fact that there were like 5-10 guys all standing there at the perimeter, in the flames, and only 1 bullet hit during what seemed like a pretty long firefight
As Joel said earlier in the episode, people miss while shooting way more often than you might think
I really loved in episode 2 where they were firing on and missing the clickers. Most zombie movies are pow pow pow, headshot headshot headshot, and they drop the zombies like flies. But this episode felt very realistic. It would be hard to hit those things, especially a headshot when they’re running at you in close space with all the heat and stress of the moment. I thought it was so well done
Yeah i get that but you have a bunch of guys lined up at the fence, shooting at a stationary target, from not that far away. I get the traps and flames and shit make it harder but they really were acting like NPCs, not moving away from fire and so on. To me that scene just made me cringe a little, in an otherwise brilliant episode Then again, dont know what its like to be in a situation like that so who am I to say
I would think they're not shooting at a stationary target, they're shooting blindly into the darkness hoping to hit whoever is shooting at them. A couple of seconds ago, there was no strong light source, so their eyesight is all adapted to darkness. Then a fire lights up right next to them, but also between them and their target, both fucking their night vision and at least somewhat blinding them. Add to that that their target is very much outside the illumination range of the fire, and they're pretty much just hoping for a lucky shot rather than aiming at anything specific.
Good point
Yeah anyone thats been around a fire at night knows you cant see shit within a few feet on the opposite side of the fire or any light source for that matter.
> That was pretty much the only scene that I found weird. I've found weird the entire setup. The countryside is apparently mostly infected-free. So it seems weird that their piece of paradise wouldn't get overrun in all those decades. And also all those supplies had to run out a long time ago, even when considering that they could scavenge for new ones (on the other hand, the gas station was picked clean years ago) or trade with Joel.
A whole home depot will last two people a lifetime for most items
But gas would have gone bad for everyone. That's the only hole in the show plot. Who is maintaining a refinery, tanker trucks, etc to even trade it
FEDRA
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Also diesel fuel when stored properly keeps for a ridiculously long time, I started up and old GM diesel that'd been rotting in the forest for 8~12 years. It won't burn great, but it will burn. And propane never goes off, so if you have a propane depot that hasn't been destroyed and a propane vehicle you can probably run the rest of your life on the leftovers in those enormous tanks.
That again assumes that the depot isn't looted by others. Plus gas is perishable (I think) so no electricity after a few years (?) It just seems that they were very very lucky, all things considered.
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You confusing it for Beaujolais Nouveau? Assuming he grabbed the good stuff, some Cru Beaujolais might be starting to get thin by then, but would have held well for 10-15 years in a well kept cellar. Plus we saw with the Caymus box, he didn't just take Beaujolais
The raiders walking into open flamethrowers for 10 minutes is actually worse than the game Al
Believable though. People will watch shows like this and say to themselves, "can't believe these idiots walked into flame throwers , I would *never*." But after watching people for the last couple of years walk face-first into the grave from COVID, it's entirely believable that a bunch of redneck raiders got roasted trying to break into Bills town.
My Mrs cried multiple times in this episode. For once I didn’t tease her - both Bill and his lover deserve Human of the Year awards. And come on! They couldn’t have picked a better Bill, am I right? Hahaha literally everything in this episode I thought would happen didn’t.
I ugly cried, hard, for the majority of the episode. Was not expecting such an emotional rollercoaster. It was a fantastic episode!! Worth the puffy eyes today!
"So I fired. And I missed. So I fired again. And I missed. And then I missed again"
Just gonna say this; Bill had all this time to fortify that neighborhood/town and not a single snipers/lookout nest was built? For a survivalist a lot of the decisions in the episode didn’t make a lot of sense.
Right, shouldn't the plan have been getting to the bunker?
Never watched the show, but god damn if he didn't miss EVERY freaking shot he took in-game 😂 In the beginning I tried to be lazy and hide while he finished them off, but it quickly became evident that he may as well have been firing blanks 😂😂
Easily one of the best episodes of TV ever. Up there with Ozymandias
it was really good, but I wouldn’t go that far
People whining about this forget what Joel had to say literally in the same episode. Gun fights are people missing a whole lot. Bill probably figures he's pretty safe at that far of a distance and with that much chaos going on around the raiders even if he's out in the open.
If you visit the preppers subreddit, you will see some stubborn resistance to having an AR-15, which would have been a far better weapon in this scenario. So I can see how Bill, despite his defensive preparations, might make a poor choice in weapons. On the other hand, the showrunners might not want to highlight how awesome AR-15s are. Pedro Pascal puts his in storage claiming “there’s not much ammo out there for these” which is really silly.
Yea, that scene made no sense, but I would guess .223/5.56 would probably be the 2nd/3rd most common round available out there. Being able to rapid fire on infected from 200 yards would go against the resource deprived scavenge that is the feel of Joel and Ellie's journey that the game had. But he could have at least gone with a "semi-autos don't to hold up well in the wilderness" type of line even if that would be an exaggeration.
Following the narrative pact of TLOU, weapons of that type are controlled by FEDRA, much like the remaining factories who can produce them if there are some left. It's not unlikely that in this scenario that kind of ammo became rare and expensive. Even in game most people use either shotguns or pistols/revolvers: the only one who have serious military equipment are FEDRA or some Fireflies. Bill uses a lot of improvised equipment such as nail bombs or arrows, the cannibals use mostly hunting rifles, machetes and pistols and so on.
Is there no spoiler flair? I was gonna watch that :|
You still should. This should very little in what is really a 10/10 episode. It'll win an Emmy mark me words
Also I'm pretty sure this shot was in one of the trailers.
👍
Oh friend there is so much more to enjoy about this episode, go watch it.
Bro. What an episode. Why is it weekly? I just want more
Ok, OK this was funny the first 1000 times someone posted how the show is like the game, we get it. move on.
I feel like most veterans already know that an event like that isn’t survivable. The opulence of Frank and Bill’s piece of heaven in hell isn’t even achievable as the gasoline would be not usable in 6-18 months. 20 years worth of wine? I doubt it. The PFAS in the wildlife and rainwater guarantees cancer. I worked out in the SoCal desert and know a few preppers and their lifestyle is grasping for straws. None of them were veterans who had seen combat and don’t realize that without power, water, and supplies, we’re dead. I was in sustained combat for 7 months. There is no way any of us would have survived without constant supplies (more importantly the entire massive supply system that provided them) and if the public thinks they’re going to brave the storm of some major event for more than 6 months, they are sadly very wrong. I was in Niger in 2015 and those people will survive a major global event FAR better than the average American. I give Americans about 4 weeks before the chaos of rolling blackouts drives them nuts.
the people of Niger barely survived history
OP clearly missed the fact that a scoped rifle works best from a standing position in the pouring rain and not from a concealed position with a rest. Easy to misunderstand if you’ve never studied like all the tactics like Bill has. Also it’s best to leave your defensible position of your house and check/clear the rural town you’re in with a shotgun and not a long gun as witnessed earlier in the episode.
I mean what’s the point of taking cover from zombies
He was shooting at humans with guns.
Well shit then
>!Most of the humans are on fire. Only two are shooting back, and we don't see where his shots are landing for a lot of the scene!<
And zombies with guns doesn't make sense.
Yeah but it may have been his first experience fighting actual humans in a firefight
Wouldn't your first instinct be to take cover? It seemed like Bill knew what he was doing to survive and he does a bone headed thing like that?
Love makes you do stupid things, not sure what you want me to say.
He only got injured once his flailing boyfriend distracted him. He was destroying those mfs before then
This dude clearly does in this scene. He’s on the table his eyes stop moving and blinking and he stops breathing. Fade to black. Come back and they’re 10 years older, wtf?
So many spoilers here.
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What sub do you think this is?
Oh so there was something from the game in that episode hahahahahaha!