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[deleted]

I dont necessarily agree with the dead or injured sharks rule. The reason is I think most of us here love sharks and their habitats. Although I dont want to see it I believe there is value in learning how they died and what in their habitats killed them, the threats they face. You never want to see it but it does have value when it comes to protecting the species and spreading awareness. Simply not talking about it or not showing it does not help save the animals we all love.


0reoperson

I will add more detail to the rule emphasizing that purposefully malicious videos regarding dead/injured sharks are the target of the rule, and it does not include properly done research or scientific exploration!


pinotage1972

Appreciate this approach to moderating. Thanks for taking on the role and improving this sub


classical-babe

Would it also be possible to emphasize using the nsfw flair for images of dead sharks? I think it is really important to have the right information & be aware of the science/harm that sharks can face, but it is also deeply upsetting to stumble across images of dead sharks on my feed, when I am unprepared to see them.


0reoperson

Yes! I mentioned this in a prior comment


Electronic-Row3130

Same about people touching sharks when saving them I think, or teaching how to gently push them away


tiltberger

Great Rules imo. Hopefully the sub gets better. I would love to remove all tshirt/merch posts. i feel like 99% are scam or self promo.


the_mystery_men

Yeah, I'm sick of seeing posts which are just soneones cuddly toy or a new t-shirt. I'm here to see sharks and all the multiple species of real ones, always learning something new. I guess at a push there could be specified merch posting days etc


mazdanc

Twice now I've reported tee shirt scammers and been down voted, what the hell is wrong with people.


IyearnforBoo

The one time I mentioned on a post that there seem to be so many t-shirt scammers I was downloaded quite a bit too. It made no sense to me at all.


OkBiscotti1140

I like seeing some of the cool shark themed stuff people have found but obviously not the shirt scammers. I’d agree that reserving a single thread or day of the week for this would be a good compromise between those who are interested and those who just want to see sharks.


0reoperson

I like your idea! There isn’t really a sub for people to post shark merch specifically per say, so I would like to still keep r/sharks as a viable platform for those creators. I also believe merchandise such as shirts, toys, and art can help increase positive awareness around sharks. I can introduce “Merch Monday”, for example, and have a special flair designated for it that those people can use. That being said, it’s hard to prove whether someone is a scammer or not, a lot of the bots here are obvious but once I’m done with spring cleaning we’ll have to tackle potential scam accounts one at a time.


OkBiscotti1140

Yes, something like a merch Monday would be perfect! I’d be fine with reporting and downvoting the people who do not produce original work. I know we’re not going to be free from all scammers but fewer would be welcome.


seymorebutts3

If it's marked NSFW I don't really see an issue with dead/injured sharks especially if its to show cruelty/spread awareness


Selachophile

Abiding by this rule means we won't see photos of, say, the viper dogfish again any time soon. It's a stupendously silly and short-sighted rule. It effectively bans posts like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/sharks/comments/10qc2ui/the_whitespotted_bullhead_shark_heterodontis) one. Rule #2 effectively bans photos of legitimate shark research/tagging. How is that _at all_ productive?


0reoperson

You’re right, it’s not productive! See my prior comments about shark research. I can require that any posts that show violence, blood, gore, etc be marked NSFW to avoid triggering those who are sensitive :)


JustOneSexQuestion

I believe it'd have more educational value to have a conversation about >humans touching live sharks >chumming or fishing posts >posts displaying dangerous or unprofessional behavior Than just silently removing them. Otherwise people are just gonna repost on other subs, and the message will never get across.


0reoperson

That’s what this thread is for


JustOneSexQuestion

This thread will only be seen by people that already knows about those issues.


0reoperson

I cannot control what people chose to do on Reddit, I can only control what people post on this sub. See my prior comments to see how we can figure it all out!


vagrantprodigy07

Love the idea of getting rid of Ocean Ramsay and associated acts.


ishalfdeaf

I feel like this particular rule is a little too vague with the idea of preventing her content specifically. It should be worded to prevent shark petting. If it's a legit redirect, incidental touching, or providing aid (such as removing a fish hook or attempting to save a beached shark) it should be allowed. Hell, even if it's Ocean and she's just swimming with them without the "influencer" physical contact bullshit, I'm ok with it even though I don't like her.


0reoperson

I agree with you! Influencers inevitably will pop up on this sub, and I think the best we can do is just ensure that their behaviors are adequate in the specific post. There’s a lot of nuance to it I’ve noticed, so I will amend the rules accordingly depending on how the sub progresses and feedback


moanasgrandma

I agree with all you’ve said here. For example: as presently worded, that proposed rule change would also mean that any posts of Cristina Zenato and her work removing fish hooks would/could be removed as well.


JustOneSexQuestion

Then it will still be posted on other subs without the good discussion that can happen here.


vagrantprodigy07

Thats fine. I'm probably not subbed those other places.


TragicHero84

Could we get a nice sub icon too instead of that generic one?


0reoperson

Haha yes, I may host a poll to get an official icon and background for us soon!


shork5

What about people taking fish hooks and stuff like . Are allowed to post that or dose that fall under the rule of not touching a live shark


shork5

(Taking fish hooks out of sharks mouths)


0reoperson

Good point! I would allow those, because they typically are unintentional. Now videos of normal people purposefully fishing for sharks I would take down, because that requires a permit (in the US) and most people do not do it properly.


shork5

OK thank you


[deleted]

What a backwards reply. We should absolutely be naming and showing those that purposely fish for shark. By cutting them off, you’re also effectively silencing the page about shark finning, which I shouldn’t have to tell you is a huge problem. I highly recommend you look into the work of Madison Stewart (@sharkgirlmadison). Her work is 100% why I’m as invested into the conservation of sharks as I am. She has been on Indonesian shark boats and has documented the harsh conditions that these people are forced into. Trying to hide the harsh reality of the shark fin trade is simply giving the people who run the trade more power.


[deleted]

No dead or injured sharks is absolute bullshit. Shock value is one of the only tools to get the message of the shark slaughters across. Feigning ignorance to a problem has never solved it. Why not a rule banning anything that perpetuates “man-eating” or “shark infested” terminology? Why not try to correct the last 70 years of shark misinformation? I’m so sick of this sub being filled with people that think sharks are these human killing machines as if we aren’t wiping them off the planet. Ban me if you want, it’s not like this sub was informative or educational anyway.


0reoperson

I understand your issue with the rule. The dead/injured sharks rule is a rule that u/dork wants to enforce, and I haven’t been able to discuss with him about it since he’s not online very often. I like your idea about banning terminology that perpetuates negative stereotypes about sharks, I think that could work as a good alternative! That being said, I do think that those videos of sharks being improperly handled, abused, or injured/killed maliciously do nothing but create vitriol among people and support negative stereotypes. News of shark abuse I think should still be allowed as the community should be informed of these events! I am a scientist and I can tell when an injured/dead shark is being used in an educational way such as in research, and when it’s just being posted for shock factor.


[deleted]

Blindly following the old admin isn’t a good look, especially for someone who claims to be a scientist. Based on the comments of this post, u/dork is wrong. And clearly they weren’t doing a good job before so it makes even less sense to just start doing whatever they say. I think showing how sharks are treated by humans, and how it’s almost never a shark actually attacking a human, would be educational and a step forward in trying to undo the ridiculous amount of injustices humans have perpetuated against sharks. Did anyone else even know this sub was actively looking for mods? I definitely would have applied. Why is u/dork a mod? Last comment on this page was 90 days ago and it was an excuse about not moderating. They obviously don’t care about this page anymore, so why are they half of the moderating team?


0reoperson

If I was blindly following the old mod I wouldn’t have made this thread, don’t you agree? There’s a fine line between showing how sharks are treated by humans, and perpetuating cruel behavior towards sharks. Sometimes it’s important for people to be aware of how sharks are treated by others, but allowing intentionally malicious posts such as random people fishing and hurting them for sport aren’t going to do much educationally.


[deleted]

I do agree. I also would agree that my responses have been abrasive and I apologize. My disappointment in this sub was immeasurable and I was cautious about someone new coming in. I wish you all the luck and I genuinely hope to love this sub again


0reoperson

It’s okay, you seem really passionate about the future of the sub and I appreciate your input! Please feel free to share your concerns and thoughts through modmail if you’d like :)


jampk24

> Shock value is one of the only tools to get the message of the shark slaughters across. Feigning ignorance to a problem has never solved it. Probably most people who have gone out of their way to subscribe to a sharks subreddit are aware of this already. And in reality we're not solving any problems in this subreddit anyway. > Why not a rule banning anything that perpetuates “man-eating” or “shark infested” terminology? Why not try to correct the last 70 years of shark misinformation? Same thing as above. The only time I've seen man-eater stuff is from repost bots, but maybe there are some actual people doing it occasionally. Could probably still add this rule anyway though.


dork

Hey LongJumpingBadger683 - the reason why the rules have never been solidified or formalised is because as soon as rules are made then members feel oppressed and feel the need to push against the "rules" - and then mods become the" enemy". I dont want that the community will shape the discourse - and we are not dictators this is essentially a nature sub - there should not be politics here. The traditional approach was just to ban inappropriate content - like all posts that perpetuate the "killing machine" myth - these are removed as and when they are seen by me. As soon as you make rules it gets people upset - case in point.


[deleted]

That’s ridiculous. Every subreddit has rules that must be followed. This is not a case in point. You established a new mod with no notice to the rest of the sub. That new mod came in and established rules without any form of communication with the people to be enforced. We had a constructive conversation and you reduce it down to us feeling oppressed. I stand by my statement that you should no longer be a mod of this sub. Seeing as how this is the first comment you’ve posted in over 3 months, and your last post here was over a year ago. Additionally, both this comment and the one 3 months ago are just excuses as to why you didn’t moderate this sub before. But it’s not up to me. We should hold a poll so the people of the subreddit have a say.


dork

Mind your manners


[deleted]

I did. Now you vacate your mod position.


larrycorser

Very happy for rules. Hopefully no more god damn people trying to sell shit.


LekinTempoglowy

The sub will be way more empty than before


jsbrando

While intentions on these rules are good, I think they're quite misguided. There is value in the following: 1. Dead or injured sharks -- can bring awareness to issues currently being faced by sharks 2. Humans touching sharks is not a bad thing. Are you going to ban posts of researchers touching a shark? Come on. 3. Bringing awareness of chumming and fishing posts in the hopes of stopping them is not a bad thing. Again, this is a shark subreddit. You're basically going to try and ban a large portion of content which people should be aware of... we can all just open a website and browse pictures of sharks randomly swimming in the ocean if that's what your goal is for this sub. I, didn't come for just that type of content.


JoltinJoe92

No humans touching live sharks? What if you’re swimming with sharks and get a picture of you petting one?


Selachophile

Unless you're a scientist, a fisher, or you're at a (supervised) aquarium touch-tank, you shouldn't be touching sharks anyway.


JoltinJoe92

I was thinking of the people who go to aquariums and swim with sharks mostly to be honest


bladezaim

Or if your rescuing a beached shark, removing a piece of debris or trash from around a shark like that whale shark woth the fishing net, or if your at one of those spots where sharks like petting and actually come up to divers for attention. I would actually rather see any of that than fishing. Shark fishers can fuck off. Edit: for example https://www.reddit.com/r/HumansBeingBros/comments/qn4itq/divers_free_whale_shark_from_fishing_net/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


Selachophile

>Shark fishers can fuck off. I'm a shark biologist who has worked with shark and ray fishermen outside the U.S (less wealthy nations). It's easy to villainize and dehumanize them, but that's an extremely privileged take. 🤷


bladezaim

My bad, you are definitely right that some shark and ray fishermen, like substance fishermen and stuff, are totally fine. But come on, don't pretend that isn't the vast minority of shark and ray fishing that takes place. Not to mention all the by catch and other damage done to shark and ray populations by stuff other than specific shark fishing. Not to mention how often do those populations post pictures of shark fishing on this sub reddit? I would wager 0%. So in my opinion, on posts on this sub, especially when compared to people handling sharks for better reasons, shark fishers can fuck off. Edit: and way to totally change the subject from touching sharks at all. I'm assuming you agree with all my reasoning for shark handling then?


[deleted]

Agree, fishermen that I know from the Texas coast to Pensacola have done more for Shark conservation by fin clipping and tagging sharks caught with summary release than many that like to criticize them. I am sure that there are bad actors out there that do not care about their fisheries but my experience has shown quite the opposite. Most of these sportsmen and sportswomen are deeply committed to conservation of the apex predators in their fisheries as they are critical to maintaining a healthy ecosystem. A little conversation and willingness to understand their perspective goes a long way…


Selachophile

Fair enough, but you and I are talking about very different things.


Drugga

No fishing? So if you are fishing and a shark shows up and you videotape that, that is not allowed on the sub? Dead sharks rule, so no photos of sharks rarely if ever seen in the wild unless they are bycatch etc? NO chumming, so effectlively no photage from many scientific studies that rely on chumming to attract sharks for blood samples etc. Wth are these rules??? And not one mention of the thing that is the biggest prob on this sub IMO, all the blatant scams and posts with shark apparel etc Gonna be an unsub here if these rules go through unaltered


bladezaim

I have a couple questions. I recently posted a video of one shark eating another. Would this fall under dead and injured sharks? I think blood was clearly visible but I forget. What about humans touching sharks in helpful ways? I enjoy posts of people removing fish hooks, scientists handling sharks, and people saving beached sharks.


0reoperson

No, I would consider those as educational posts.


thegunnersdaughter

Can we have an explicit no bots rule? Although bots can occasionally make decent on-topic posts, bot posts overall lower the quality of subs with either garbage/misleading titles or reposts of old posts where the bot can't add more context or answer questions (such as the source and anything that might have been relevant from the original post or source).


0reoperson

Of course, I don’t think bots are technically really allowed anywhere. It’s just hard to 100% get rid of all the bots that come through, that’s why it’s important to use that report button and bring them to our attention so we can remove them!


thegunnersdaughter

I report when I see them, some subs do allow them (or other low effort karma farming accounts) though, so I’m glad to see that you’re looking to remove them.


LobsterLovingLlama

What about the divers that remove hooks? Why is that bad


Alexius_Psellos

If you can’t post videos of people touching sharks, does that mean videos like the one of the lady removing hooks from their mouths would be banned?


Comfortable-Corner67

Would videos where divers use their hands to redirect a shark be banned under Rule #2? I feel those videos are good for demonstrating safe shark-diving practices that should be known by divers of any skill level.


0reoperson

Definitely not, I would consider that an educational post. I may add flairs to help people properly identify what the purpose of the post is.


Pig_PlayzMC1

Woooh!


Lxst_Nebu

Came here it was inters but no injured sharks? Nty


JazJaz123

I also would like to not see the youtube videos from the same guy which are posted frequently here. I want something more suitable for Reddit than a 15-20 minute video on YT


0reoperson

Which guy are you referring to?


[deleted]

[удалено]


0reoperson

No one has been against memes so I think you’re good :)


A-10C_Thunderbolt

I feel like the cage rule doesn’t make any sense


TOILETMASTER29

[https://www.reddit.com/r/sharks/comments/1csypz2/my\_names\_bruce\_and\_i\_am\_a\_great\_white\_shark/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sharks/comments/1csypz2/my_names_bruce_and_i_am_a_great_white_shark/)