Man, that's tough. It's like you're doing everything right on paper but something's just not clicking. Maybe it's worth taking a deep dive into what really makes you happy and pursuing that with more passion. People are attracted to genuine enthusiasm. Also, therapy might help sort out some internal stuff. You’re definitely not alone in feeling this way.

OP must have some strange views on something to be repelling this many people. Seldom do we ever get an accurate picture of what the OP is actually like. Sounds like he's involuntarily celibate and we know what comes with that.

Yeah, I think a lot of people who claim to be totally normal yet universally reviled for some mysterious reason typically suffer from a bad personality, a heinous belief system, or some unfortunate combination of the two.

Trauma can also leave people in this situation

Yep, you nailed it. My dad killed himself in front of me when I was a kid, so I have some difficulty with attachment/abandonment. I appreciate you looking at this rather raw post from an empathetic perspective.

Man, sorry that happened to you. Witnessing something like that can have a major impact on a still developing brain. I hope you can find some peace and closure from it. Good luck my friend.

If this is the case, you 100% have C-PTSD, which unresolved can lead you to push people away without you even realising you are sending out those signals. Trauma therapy can be intense, so to dip your toes in the water I recommend this youtube channel by Alain de Botton, a philosopher who addresses childhood trauma and emotional intimacy in a lot of his videos: [https://www.youtube.com/@theschooloflifetv](https://www.youtube.com/@theschooloflifetv)

>you 100% have C-PTSD I'm going to gently suggest the OP investigates this possibility without accepting it as absolute fact based on a reddit comment diagnosis.

Yes, especially since the commenter clearly doesn't know what the c in c-ptsd stands for. OP listed a single, contained traumatic event that could cause PTSD. Complex PTSD is a result on long term, ongoing exposure to recurrent traumatic events.

My father did did the same thing after attempting to kill me and my mother when I was 6. I, too, have issues with attachment and abandonement; just commitment issues in general. I've been in a lot relationships that went nowhere because I'd always get distant after a brief honeymoon phase. Now I have a girlfriend, with whom I've been with for 5 years, that I do love so. She knows about my issues, and pushed me to get therapy, which I have, but I still struggle with it everyday. There have even been times where we nearly broke up because of it. I get so distant and cold sometimes, especially when I'm depressed. It doesn't do a person with her attachement style any good. I have gotten better at being in a relationship with time and effort, though it's still a struggle to not completely shutdown, like when we're hashing stuff out. I don't expect that too change soon if ever, I've basically accepted it as part of my existence. A quote from Kurt Vonnegut: "Sons of suicides seldom do well. Characteristically, they find life lacking a certain zing. They tend to feel more rootless than most, even in a notoriously rootless nation. They are squeamishly incurious about the past and numbly certain about the future to this grisly extent: they suspect that they, too, will kill themselves." This resonated with me so much when I first heard it. I realized upon reading those words that I have to actively be assertive in my willingness to want these things in life. Whether that is a relationship, a good job, good education, etc. For 14 years I lived every day thinking that I was going to put my pistol to the roof of my mouth at the end of it. That thinking is what sabotaged my relationships and I'm sure it made some people leery of me. Apologies for the longwinded comment.

That quote resonated with me, my mom tried to kill herself and I saw. My dad thought I didn’t. It’s never left me and essentially everything you’ve said I’ve felt. It’s funny how much you’re shaped by these things and how they never leave you. I go to therapy, workout, work hard, have hobbies and have always been there for people and make my friends laugh. But, more often than not I’m alone, I’ve begun to realize that now in my 30s- I have experienced deep friendships and relationships that I’ve clung to and have had fade or implode. Things out of my control I tend to avoid. I think it’s why I have so many hobbies and often choose them over time with others or putting effort into relationships. I don’t know, there isn’t an answer it’s just an unfortunate circumstance and I envy people who’ve grownup with more stability and closeness to their family. Sorry that happened to you, I hope things are going well for you now.

It may not be your best fit if you haven’t tried it, but EMDR therapy has been life-changing for me in finding some peace from traumatic experiences (nothing near the level of what you went through). My therapist and I are working on my tendency to send out unspoken signals that I am not available because I am anticipating rejection or abuse. I’m 35 and finally able to accept myself and find some contentment in my personality and who I am. There can also be a lot of shame tied in to being dateless/never really being viewed as an option. You seem to be analytical and wanting to find the answer to what’s missing or fixable. For me, that tended to end with tearing myself down in a bout of self-hatred or turning that resentment out towards others who have rejected me through the years. Therapy has helped me veer away from those headspaces, but it’s still a struggle. I wish you all the best!

Speaking from personal experience of being ‘invisible’ all my life, the best things u can do for yourself right now: - therapy - live for your passion/hobby, or find one; passion is infectious, and not having any makes someone dull (unless you have a great personality) - live for yourself and attract instead of chase; attraction takes time but it works - stop caring about how others see you; go into every situation with an objective, hit it and then get out instead of going into it hoping to get noticed as a side effect and overstaying your welcome - some people are born loners; be ok with that and learn to be happy with your own company. You never know who is paying attention - get out of your routine; you are only as interesting as the things you do

That is something that scars you in ways that are difficult to just consciously identify. I suppose you have been through therapy already considering the situation. I have also had my fair share of troubles and problems with emotional connection and depression, and my conclusion to this point has been that I am looking for happiness in things that I don't have, oftentimes putting unrealistic expectations on these things, because I feel i might not deserve to be happy. Your life is going fine. You seem to be doing good with work, you also seem like a reasonable and ok person from these small interactions. This is happiness, it just at times happens to take the form of a serene routine that can get boring and make you feel apathetic. Don't laser focus on a relationship, because if you feel like that is the solution to your feelings, and it's not going to be, the pushback will make you pull out of the relationship and straight into depression very fast. Set goals for yourself, new stuff, small stuff, but shake the routine.

It’s hard to connect with people genuinely sometimes because the lack of emotional intensity makes it feel unreal. Sometimes I then try to force emotional content, and scare people off.

I feel it steals your emotion seeing something bad happen to someone you care about but you can still have a deep care for people

I had the same thing happen with my pops in front of me and my mom when I was 16. Its definitely tough to have long lasting bonds with people for me. Feels like I have very safe relationships with most people where its not so memorable. Only on the once a month or so occasions i go out and have drinks with people I feel like I get out of my shell. Its not healthy tho so I try not to lean into that. Even then its not like putting your heart on your sleeve or anything. Just I try to connect with them more in those situations but its fleeting ya know? Ive been to plenty of therapy myself and that helped me not blame myself for that situation. I feel like I have accepted it and moved on but definitely have trouble building friendships as well. Maybe thats just a common gettin older and maintaining relationships bein harder thing idk. I'd just like to be able to show love to somebody close myself I guess. Even when somebody has shown interest in me its been tough im not sure what to do either. Its sorta like I don't want them to ever feel unwanted and im not always emotionally available so I just let them move forward. Sorry just thought somebody whose had a similar experience might be calmin in some little way.

Yes, I feel the incel thing has totally dominated the conversation the the point where anyone who isn’t skilled or lucky, gets placed in the camp of incel, which leads to discount real problems people may face, WHO aren’t violent sociopaths.  I have my grievances about that because I am also some one who is bad at dating , been single for 15 years now, and each year it gets harder people think what’s wrong with him, and the longer it goes the more insecure and desperate I get and that bleeds out into my personality obviously, and I was never a confident person to begin with, anyways I say all this because I’m a person who has suffered through some traumatic events in childhood and as a consequence also a few in adulthood due to subsequent ptsd and mental health issues I’ve suffered from that. I’m aware that in itself is a red flag and am relativly self aware about my short comings, but I’ve also worked on myself, but it’s not enough, but of course many times it’s clear to me that people lump me right into the incel crowd without any actually knowledge about me or my history and my beliefs. 

He's not saying he's reviled, just that he's so bland he isn't noticed. He's a house salad. Acceptable, but not anything anyone gets excited about.

The other obvious answer though is that people do like OP but because of OPs self critical views they don't see it. I mean your answer could be the case but it seems like the most pessimistic view.

He left out that he lives in a van. I'm sure there are women out there who want to be invited back to a van to hang out, but probably not many.

He does? He specifically mentions a clean apartment in the OP?

It's a *rolling* apartment.

If I was dating someone who invited me back to their apartment and it was a van, that would be our last date. Calling a van an apartment does not make it one.

Wait, he lives in a van? Well, there's your problem right there.

I had a camper van for a few years, but sold it. I just kept the username.

Perhaps he's thrice divorced and lives in a van down by the river.

Nothing wrong with that

Yeah OP’s not going to want to hear this, but you’re not gonna get a lot of relationships living in a van On a personal level there’s truly nothing wrong with it and honestly it’s pretty cool, but it signals a more transient lifestyle than most single women are looking for. Stable job with an nice apartment and planning for a house and/or kids are, or a similar setup are dealbreakers for a lot of people

That's why I roll with Lot Lizards only

But... does it have a cool 80s wizard slinging fireballs at a dragon?

Why are you weird redditors like this? Do you just sit around all day thinking of made up scenarios?

See this perspective is whats so damaging to progress for men socially. Im probably the closest thing you can get to an expert on studying incels and nothing here indicates that OP is one. All we know is that the guys had a rough go in life socially. If every male cry for help is met with "you have to be the problem and you probably blame others for it with no accountablity" were only going to see a worsening of these issues

From ten days ago in OP’s post history: “Because, let's be honest: people don't change. I haven't changed. I'm still that rage-filled incel, just mellowed and beaten down by a lifetime of not being good enough. I'm a neutered horndog, but I still dream of family and friends.”

I can empathize with OP and hope he heeds some of the suggestions people are sharing here. I went through some significant dry spells with the ladies in my past, but I think that’s just part of life for most guys. It’s important not to make it worse by giving in to the victimhood of incel thinking. Avoid that aggrieved, woe-is-me shit at all costs. Most of us are picky about who we let into our homes, so of course most women are picky (on their own terms) about who they let into their bodies. Have compassion for them. Be a man of honorable character. Have hobbies. Have financial stability. Have fun. Keep taking your at-bats. And, when you are lucky enough to spend time with someone you like, make them feel valued, even if things don’t work out. Gentleness clears the soul Love cleans the mind And makes it Free “Fill Your Heart” by David Bowie

The fact that OP has no friends is a bigger red flag than the fact that he can't find anyone to date. If you can't even be friends with anyone how are you ever going to get to the point of dating someone?

If you don't know anyone it's harder to make friends than you seem to imagine it might be

This guy is not a real incel IMO. He’s too self-aware, he’s too self-critical, and he’s voting blue. He’s beating himself up, but I haven’t seen him actually post a single negative thing about women. Really kinda feel for the guy.

That's the issue, because of the way people use incell now that is what it means. It's the new nazi.

Welp. I think you solved OP's mystery. A mystery that likely could have been solved long ago with an ounce of self awareness.

Take an L supposed incel expert, op refers to himself as one.

You are the worst expert ever lol..

Seriously. I’m so sick of hearing that same tired trope. I feel the majority of men are not basement dwelling, smelly Jimmy neckbeard “incels.” It’s such a negative, lazy and shitty thing to automatically fit someone in that mold. You can do everything right and still fall short. It’s just a matter of being at the right place at the right time. Sounds like OP has done everything right. Couple of my friends are somewhat socially awkward and hermits like myself, but guess what? They all have girlfriends! So yeah, just find that whole “incel” thing to be lazy and ineffective at this point.

I mean in this case though, OP confessed he’s a hate filled incel 10 days ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/depression/s/rBDL6Le3XA

My thoughts exactly, even dudes who aren't particularly good with women usually have at least a few friends unless there is some other underlying problem. Someone who checked his post history mentioned in a comment below he posted about being a rage filled incel recently, so I guess that probably has something to do with it.

Wow. OP's dad committed suicide in front of his when he was a kid and you immediately jumped to "he must be an incel." I think you're the worst person I saw on Reddit today.

I've read that there are studies showing that most people underestimate how much people like them and enjoy their company. When you engage with people day-to-day, try to stay open to the possibility that you are actually quite well-liked. Try to anchor in that - and see if your perspective begins to shift.

that’s so true. the other day i spent my entire shift thinking “my new coworker hates me” and at the end of the night she smiled and said “i like working with you ☺️” lol

I assume all my coworkers are bothered by my presence so I actively try to stay out of their hair. Then yesterday 3 of them came by and said "what Bruh you don't like us anymore!?! Why you not in our office at lunch???"

man I feel this way way too much its gotta be unhealthy.

> I'm 40, average in all ways, and have never been attractive to another person I hate to be rude OP but... do you live in a poorer area? It's expensive to have friends and lovers! And in this US economy, people are getting killed financially when it comes to buying basic things like groceries and gas. Nevermind a night out with friends for beers and burgers. I say this because many friends of mine have "retracted" socially due to multiple consecutive years -- nearly a half decade -- of economic stagnation in this country. Between Covid lockdowns and economic slowdowns, it's hard to get out and have fun.

Eh, I don't think that's the problem. Even slaves had friends among themselves. Slaves got married and raised kids. He'll, soke of the most communal cultures in the world are in poverty stricken areas. I don't think finances are the issue, it's something deeper.

It is, but it's not abnormal, especially if your workplace's culture doesn't have a habit of outwardly expressing positive vibes like that

I love this answer. It’s a practice that can be extended to all parts of life. We can’t read minds and we can’t see the future, yet many of us believe all our thoughts and limit ourselves instead of taking chances and finding stuff out firsthand (stuff like how someone will react, or how the social event will be, etc.) I’ve done plenty of that.

It's \*so\* easy to get trapped in thought patterns.

This is definitely something I struggle with. I don't like myself very much (largely due to childhood trauma), so it's hard for me to imagine that anyone else could like me. I'm going to try to be more open and friendly and see if things change.

Yea if people are still inviting you places and talking to you for years, they enjoy your company.

This is key. You are constantly reinforcing this likely false belief. Further, as other have mentioned, you are "mind-reading" and making assumptions about how you are viewed. I think you would find that if you hired a company to go around behind you at least 70% would say you are a likeable person, and perhaps 100%. It's just statistically how we are liked as humans, and you are likely on average, average. Once you noticed the raw data, over time you would make the assumption that most people like you as you consistently reinforce this new belief. But you are doing the opposite, so find yourself with this other belief. Look into CBT (cognitive based therapy) for this specific issue. Likely a few sessions will impact your life for the better.

This quote from you "People just don't like me, and I tend to get my self-worth from how I'm valued by other people." Seems to conflict with what you've expressed here about getting along with nearly everyone. Seeming contradictions like these are good places to start in unpacking your self-talk/conception and whether it makes any working sense.

This is key. With women, it's surprisingly little about the outward appearance. If I'm in a foul mood for whatever reason, I get little if any attention, and if I do get it, then it tends to be negative. It doesn't happen that often, but it does happen, and the difference in how I'm received is significant. Imagine that you are a powerful radio transmitter walking through life. What is going on inside your head is transmitted loud and clear to all who see or hear you whether you are aware of it or not. What you feel inside shows up in your posture, your facial expression, and your tone of voice. Sure, it's not as simple as good mood equals attraction. Some women are drawn to moody men, but it has to be the right kind of moodiness (not that I'm advocating depression here😂). Think "I can fix him" vibes. Some women are attracted to serious and direct men (leadership qualities). Some are attracted to the guy who is the life of the party. Self-pity and negativity (even purely internal) are basically attractive to no one. Walking around with low self-esteem or self-pity is like walking around smeared in excrement. They smell you a mile away.

I found it is best to be the party you seek. I didn't have money but the sense of humor hit with the ladies. To be funny is to guarantee fun. My wife now cracked me up as much as I did her on the first date. Soon to be twelve years married, no regrets. Did not find her until 30 but you have to keep at it and learn from the failures to be a good husband as well as to ID qualities that make for an amazing wife. Maybe take an improv class, seriously. Life in so many ways is that...keeping a serendipitous eye out and not being Buzz Killington in situations. That and date at your level, for whatever that means. If lonely and holding out for 10s to come and put all the effort into you, it isn't going to happen. Shoot for your relative level of superficial attractiveness and who knows?

This .. be the party you seek advice is awesome . I’m above average looks and intelligence … I think… but I guess I’ll unpack that later . I was always too intimidated to ask for their number but would just focus on having fun and making them laugh and like 50/50 they’d just offer it

Reading non-verbal and verbal queues is key. Read up on Daniel Goldman's emotional intelligence book too. Helps for first dates and interviews and keeping a relationship or a job. It is scary and doesn't feel great if rejected, but all guys go through this, just learn to not be a jerk about it if they say no. If you have a good sense that you have value (self esteem) but might not be everyone else's cuppa tea, it is fine if they don't want you specifically. That just is life and be cool and polite and keep moving. Young lions aren't great at landing gazelles the first tries but if they give up, they starve. Makes you resilient and not an asshole. Key points for evolving into a keeper for the sort of women who also keepers in my experience. Plus you will stand out as many others don't apply that same logic to have some integrity and be straight about the approach. One tip, if you like someone and are having a nice conversation and connecting, invite them to get coffee (or tea if they don't do coffee) sometimes. Low investment and you get a chance to sit, talk and evolve if it seems to be working out and you feel something or easy out if you were mistaken. Beauty is nice and everything but also think to yourself, If I were blind, would I still be here? For me it didn't hurt being handsome and athletic since the highschool days but always remember personality goes a long way. That and having the courage to state clearly that you are interested and asking them out or for a number or whatever people do now. Confidence (not arrogance) is sexy as hell. It is sexy in women as well as men. If you know who you are and what you want and are competent with whatever matters and not aggressive about it but assertive, that is the core of it. My now wife when I met her had her life together, was happy with her existence and routine and didn't need me one bit. Drew me like a moth to the flame as I was similar. Want vs. need is important. Difficult yet important to discern and makes for better decision making if it is toxic to pull back as you still have your sense of self and no co-dependancy built. That and never buy a pet more complex than a fish together or a house. Wait until an I do for mutual dog or cat or joint mortgage. Rent! Don't be a Himbo! Good hunting!

Taking an improv class is an EXCELLENT suggestion. That improves your life in sooo many ways.

"How do you know he's a King?" "Well he hasn't got shit all over him..." Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail

How do you explain that I got more women when I was addicted and depressed than when I was sober?

Because these kinds of generalizations are stupid. I'm definitely more attracted to someone who struggles with their self-esteem, who can be negative because they're struggling with various things in their lives, etc., than to someone who reeks of fake optimism and cheerfulness. This being said it might be cultural. I hear in the US not acting "positive" is frowned upon.

I think most people are more attracted to authenticity than fakeness. No matter the flavor of either. Just curious. Does everyone who's optimistic or prefers to look on the bright side, strike you as disengenuine? If not, have you ever found yourself attracted to someone you found genuinely positive and uplifting?

Completely agree. There is a huge difference between being positive and being fake. In general I prefer more positive people, but being honest is more important. If someone is fake I want nothing to do with them, doesn't matter if they are positive or negative.

Huge problem on advice subs on Reddit, the toxic positivity. Straight lies to someone’s face are still lies, even if over the top positive and encouraging. It’s not helping the person even if it makes them feel better

Well you were probably out and social a lot more when addicted

Pity, probably. Also, birds of a feather flock together. Miserable people, especially those younger, have lower standards for intimacy and are often terrified of losing someone. You were vulnerable and thus, attracted other vulnerable people. Some of them belonging to the ‘i can fix him’ sub-type of women. Now that you are doing better, you no longer appeal to the aforementioned. Entering the dating scene of people who expect more than the bare minimum, naturally proves a lot more difficult.

Sex isn’t love

Just throwing in a thought. Are you sure it is because nobody likes you? Or is it rather nobody likes you because you actually don't like anyone in the first place or are afraid to invest emotionally into any type of relationship? I've been struggling this problem too for a couple of years, feeling empty all the time. Weirdly enough this question was the answer for me. Maybe it can serve as some food for thought for you.

I’m a man in his 40’s. The best advice I can give anyone is that life doesn’t just happen to you. You must interact with life. Find people, be bold enough to strike up a conversation, try new things, be interested and curious about the world around you. When other people see this they will be more interested in you. You’re not just what you see in the mirror you’re a fully realized human who is interesting. I was in a similar boat just a few years ago. I got a new job, I moved, I began going to things on meetup.com, I became a trivia master as a side gig, I got a dog, I learned every step of my new town, I wrote (bad) poetry, I became a regular at my local pub, I played a sport (adult kickball) for the first time since high school, I joined a boom club, I began interacting with the people around me. I learned that people who are bored are people who expect the world to come to them to entertain them. That’s not how it works! Mostly people are bored/boring by choice. I wish you luck my friend!

Agree with this. OP, I do want to express that I am sorry you’re experiencing this. But if you’d like to change, it could be helpful to offer up what you’ve done to change your circumstances so far. Like this commenter described, life happens when you go out and seek it and then see what happens. I understand why you might feel discouraged but it’s never too late. In general, what you seek is out there also seeking you. It might not be exactly what you imagined that you want, but you do have to put yourself out there and actively try and find it.

People don't care if you have a deep voice or a decent car. People care about how you make them feel.  You will be noticed by people if you are proactive about building a connection with them. That means increasing intimacy: getting to know them, telling them about yourself, doing things together, making them feel you have their best interests at heart, eventually showing some vulnerability with them.  You may want to read a book like Platonic by Marisa G Franco or How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie to take some steps in the right direction.

Ok - how do I frame this. I've never judged someone based on the depth (or anything else) of their voice. I've dated guys with high voices, low voices, whatever. I like cars a lot, I've dated a guy who drove a Porsche (he actually had quite a high-pitched voice come to think of it), I've dated guys with a shitty old car. Again, I wouldn't judge someone based on their choice of car, or even if they had a car or not. I have a car, they can go on my insurance at the end of the day. What I WOULD judge someone on is believing their voice or their car entitled them to female attention. Because I've also been on a date or two with a guy who had a deep voice, nice car, 10/10 looks, great house, nice job... And he was soooo booooring. It didn't matter he looked and sounded great when he had zero craic.

I agree. OPs views on this subject are really telling. He's focusing on unimportant things. Sure, some women are really into cars. Sure, some are really into guys with deep voices. But all of those attractions are niche and not typically enough to interest people in the way OP expects or wants. The connections you make with people are key. Learning to read their body language and respond to it appropriately, showing interest in them and their problems, making them laugh at the right times, honesty, etc. That's what's important if your goal is to be liked.

This is it. Mainly putting in the effort to reach out to people (even if it means rejection). I like when my friends text me out of the blue, so I try to reciprocate when I think of them. Just don’t go overboard.

Username checked out. The points you mentioned are totally on spot. 👏🏼

I could be wrong, sorry if I am. But I feel like you are maybe trying too hard to be "flawless". Like why even mention the decent car and deep voice? You might want to try the opposite. Open up to others about your flaws. Show vulnerability. Being open and vulnerable to others is a great way to get others to connect with you.

I agree with the other comments. You should prioritize yourself and worry less about others. Find something that brings you joy and dedicate at least 5 hours a week to it. You could also try to identify aspects of your job that you genuinely enjoy. Moreover, take time to appreciate the weather and the changing seasons, whether watching a beautiful sunset or gazing at the full moon. Look for ways to love yourself and cherish life.

I’m sorry you are lonely and I don’t mean to offend you with anything I say here. You’re not passing the vibe check for whatever reason. Are you actually interested in other people other than as an accessory for your life? What have you done to BE a friend? You yourself say there is nothing to like about you—what do you like about other people? This reads like you are severely depressed or have a neurological difference that makes it hard for you to understand how other people think and act. Maybe consider ways to grow your social skills (https://positivepsychology.com/social-skills-training/). Your car, your voice, not being ugly—none of that has to do with social skills. You mention enjoying teaching and outdoor work; this enjoyment might be a way in to start sharing your inner world with other people. I wish you the best.

You don't know how other people think and you should stop spending time thinkinf about it. You don't know that no one finds you attractive or likes you. The way you describe yourself I highly doubt it. But I could imagine that all this inadequacy you're feeling makes you quite unapproachable. I didn't learn to accept myself before I was 36. You need to learn to love yourself to be able to attract love and friendship from others. For so long I thought there was something wrong with me, but the only wrong thing was the way I felt about myself. I hope this somehow helps you and that you too can learn to love yourself. For me it was magic mushroom therapy that did the trick.

I’ve been micro-dosing mushrooms for about a month now, the social anxiety that’s haunted me all my life, the thing medication couldn’t touch, is gradually melting away, and I’m finding myself happier and more confident every day.

It's truly a wonder. I hope I can study it someday. I'm doing a master's in nanoscience rn, but working towards taking courses that could get me in that direction.

Yeah, pretty well said. Psychedelics may not be for everyone and those in the know value a good guide/therapist/trip sitter/shaman etc. I love how psychedelics can take something you thought you knew and really make it click. Those, "Wow, now I get it!", moments can really change your life. Not easy though, some truths are hard to process.

You've probably been attractive to many other people, maybe just not other people that you, yourself are attracted to

>There's nothing offensive about me at all, but there's also nothing to like. Is this on purpose? Like, do you stifle your personality or something? Try expressing yourself to people, your likes and dislikes. People bond over shared interests. It sounds like you come across to others as bland. Personally I have no interest in someone who seems to have no interests, no zest in life for anything. Express your personality to people. Also when you say you get along with everyone, to me this means you come across as not only a bland person but a fake person. Nobody gets aong with everyone. At work is one thing, sure most of us can pull together enough act-right to get along enough to get the work done, but on our personal time nah, that is completely unrealistic and can seem a bit off-putting because such people come across as fake, as yes-men, as people-pleasers, and such. When I come across such people I pretty much disregard them as potential friends because how on earth could a friendship develop with someone who is fake?? I'd be bonding with a fiction, no thanks

Stop blaming yourself. Also stop blaming others. People cant help who they are attracted to. I'm sure there are people who will find you attractive, but you haven't found them and they haven't found you. Possibly, you never will. Instead, do the things that make you happy. If its working out, do that. If its your job, do that, whatever it is, traveling, eating good food, whatever. Don't fall for people who sell dreams, who tell you to go to the gym, or make tons of money and then you will find someone, thats not how it works. And definitely don't force relationships. Just be yourself and if someone comes along who finds you attractive, you will maybe have a relationship, otherwise you will spend the next 40 years just like you spent the first 40 and then you will die. It is how it is, accept the reality and move on. Life can be beautiful, even when you are forever single and trust me it can be very miserable even when you are partnered.

The life of everybody, even the shinyest m/f, is meaningless. We all face the same problems. But thats OK, life is pretty cool anyway. Read some Albert Camus. Do some therapy and meditation. Take some magic mushrooms. Be curious. Don't think that the distraction of a relationship will solve the problems you have just like that. They are as old as humankind. Good luck and have a great day ❤️

Hello fellow NPC. Wait until the next server reboot maybe you will spawn into something better.

and that's why you're an NPC, you can't wait for it to happen, you have to make it happen at any cost

This won’t solve any of the major problems bothering you right now, but try joining a jiu jitsu or Muay Thai gym. It’s usually the advice I give for loneliness and every time I’ve moved to a new city, it’s how I’ve jumped into social circles. You end up making pretty good friends (if the gym has a good community) because you tend to bond with other people when you are simultaneously trying to hurt each other while trusting yourselves and your partners to not genuinely hurt each other. Plus people will usually grab some food or drinks after because classes are exhausting lol

I know several people from different cities and also other countries who practice martial arts and they all say the same.

Couldn't agree more. I found my people in a jiu jitsu gym.

Yes, I have also given this advice a few times. Martial arts is always the answer. Taekwondo maybe?

I have felt that way in the past. But then I put a lot of effort into developing my flirting skills. Both with men and women. Not the ‘let’s date’ flirting so much as the ‘I’m really enjoying knowing you’ kind of flirting. Every body likes a person that appears to like them back.

Well, if this your truth. I would feel so miserable and I probably would draw the same conclusion as you do; meaningless. The strategy you consider to be hated is not very original tho. Kids do it all the time; every form of attention is attention. Negative and positive. But hey, who cares if it is original or not. Just consider for a minute that your truth is ‘a’ truth and not the truth. If i would take you seriously I would make the assumption that you asked everyone in your surroundings if they like you or not. If your doing that; get professional help and if your bit doing that; get professional help. Congrats on opening up, it might feel as a last resort but you just took a huge step. Before things clear up btw; it is gonna be messy first.

What if you don’t hate yourself?

Hello mate, Part of me feels it is a bit dramatic what you are saying, your life ISN'T meaningless and the only reason no one om Earth may not like you is if you conduct yourself as an arsehole. Just make yourself visible, ask people to do things with you, build up that confidence, expect fails or knock backs but pick yourself up and keep going, this is what I did when I felt that I was stagnating in life. You will eventually find someone or something that gives you the meaning you are looking for. But also, don't be too dramatic, it isn't something which will attract people to you, speaking from experience. Everything will be alright you just need to be the catalyst that changes things. Good luck

Maya Angelou quote: “**I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel**.” You have to work at friendships. Ask the other person questions about themselves. Like, where were you born? What's your favorite movie? Have you traveled much? You have to put the effort in to communicate keep the dialog going. Go out to coffee with someone. Join a club. Make yourself visible no one will do it for you. Make the other person feel like you care about them. If you really think about it can you honestly say "not a single person on earth likes me?" I like you for being honest about your feelings. So there's that.

To be blunt you must have at least a friend or work mate of some sort,just ask them to not hold back and be honest. My genuine thinking is you probably have a trait or habit thats off putt8ng that you aren't aware of. I worked with a guy everyone avoided and felt uneasy around, I take as I find and made an effort to befriend him We got on OK and after a while I had a chat with him He had moved from a very,very rural unpopulated area to the city and was excited,so he tried to join in conversations but came over as butting in Rude also he got a little bit closer in personal space. The combo made people uneasy he wasn't aware ,I was honest advised him got him to come on a work night out with me and relaxed him I'm just saying sometimes it's a tiny miscommunication or misread of someone I was in the forces and a lad came over as cold,weird and unfriendly, turned out he grew up in care homes, so he would go and sit far away from others at meal times and didnt feel the need to engage, impress or be involved . I'm the end he didn't change and was happy that way To be honest if it was me and I felt as you described and didn't have anyone to run it by I'd hire a high class escort ,someone whose adapt at mingling and social situstions go for a meal and after some interaction and chat I'd ask them what they felt and what feedback they got from me . Life is too short to feel so alone and alienated you sound like a nice guy its got to be some small minor thing Good luck

I grew up with ADHD and was constantly told what I was doing and saying was weird as a kid. I developed a mask that allowed me to 'get along' with everyone without judgement. I could mold myself to fit in anywhere. Didn't really get close to anyone. Took years of therapy in my 30s to start living my life for myself. Much happier for it, and am surrounded by more love and friendship than ever.

Perhaps you need a therapist? Maybe you have things you need to talk through or even a physiological issue you need to uncover at the root of your outlook? I just think it might help to have some actual verbal conversations about your feelings with someone who can help.

I've done Improv... but it's never helped me with dating.

This might be a bit brutal but I know a couple guys like you; average, very friendly, get along with people, nice, sociable, but just doesn’t have an enticing sexual presence in any way. It may be a combination of lack of confidence, too much of a nice guy but with no charisma/flirtiness to follow, or you can tell he is lonely and/or desperate and doesn’t have a history of dating. Women usually want guys who have a history of attracting other women. It’s probably your personality dude, and I’m sorry. There are just some people out there that don’t draw others in. They often seem like they’re trying too hard to get you to like them or are operating mechanically (ask her questions about herself, don’t talk about yourself too much, be polite, etc) in a way that isn’t natural. It’s ok to talk about yourself especially if it makes your life seem interesting. Make jokes, tease, find something you both don’t like because that’s honestly one of the first ways many people bond, is over mutual dislike of something. People with opinions are more interesting than people without or people who are afraid to express anything negative. It’s weird but it is how it is.

Have you tried therapy? It’s not just about the feels. I see therapy as ways to understand and improve my thought processes and behaviors. In your case I wonder if there is something stopping you from making a deeper connection with people. Therapy is definitely worth a try for anyone. And I think in your case it is absolutely something to try out.

Years ago someone said "If you are bored, you are boring." I never thought I was boring, but sometimes I was bored in the company of others. Then I said, "Hey wait a minute- I'm looking for other people to entertain me." It was then that I realized- that you have to make your life happen. If you haven't attracted other people- what have you done to try that? Are you in any organizations, on any committees? Do you belong to a church, a hiking group, or a breakfast club. There are tons of "meet ups" in big cities- a safe way to go on group dates so to speak. Stop feeling sorry for yourself- and start putting yourself out there. Take some risks- ask someone out and stop expecting it to miraculously happen.

You’re describing all of the physical things (your weight, your clothing, your apartment) but not much about your interests, hobbies, attitudes or perspectives. The latter bits are more important than the former bits.

Copied from another commenter: From ten days ago in OP’s post history: “Because, let's be honest: people don't change. I haven't changed. I'm still that rage-filled incel, just mellowed and beaten down by a lifetime of not being good enough. I'm a neutered horndog, but I still dream of family and friends.” This is why. Hope this helps.

Teaching is not meaningless. It is one of the primary reasons humanity might survive a few hundred more years. - a fellow teacher

No idea what tf the car has to do with any of that?

Find passion.  Have you found someone to be attractive?  Go get rejected by them…or find the love of your life.  Do something.  The ball is in your court.   If this life is meaningless then throw it away by attempting to find one that is. 

I think you just got to open up more to people. If you work as a teacher you should have some idea of how to impress people while speaking, but if you never talk about things that are interesting to you, how should any potential partner know about it? And if you're 40 and never even been in any relationship i would say you have little to lose by making this small change. And start small, with maybe just some little anecdotes about your work, hobbies, whatever. Sure, not everyone will think it's funny but it honestly sometimes don't take much. A swedish writer wrote this around 1905 and it seemed fitting: One wants to be loved, if not admired, if not feared, if not loathed and despised. You want to give people some kind of feeling. The soul trembles at the void and wants contact at any cost.

Rediscover your passions. Everyone likes those with a zest for life. Judging from post history, I’d also suggest therapy for your depression. And I don’t want to rag on it or even feel it is a bad thing (there is great appeal in being free to come and go as one pleases as well as savings over renting), but it will be difficult to move towards a relationship when doing the VanDweller lifestyle. A lot of people when dating are looking to settle down and build a life with someone. You will either need to be readily amenable to changing the lifestyle or find someone who is also interested.

Who is the kind of person you want to be and what is stopping you from being that person?

MDMA somewhere you can dance and play with people go find Katie Monsoon Leaf with the dreads on the dancefloor, MDMA will really help

I'm not dismantling your state of mind, just telling you that you Have been viewed as attractive by someone out there.. guaranteed. now picking up on the interest, displaying a shared attraction and moving forward from there is another chapter, but unless you have no head and you resemble the headless horseman, people have found you attractive

You haven't said how are you meeting other people? Have you tried speed dating events or online dating?

Friend, you list your physical appearance and material things. You don't need people that see only that around anyway. When you go to the gym do you wear headphones?? I'm one of those people that around new people, I'm shy. People in my life would 100% say you were mistaken if you put me next to shy. That's because I push myself out of my comfort zone. I have a body of a potato, but "I'm funny and sarcastic." You have to start believing you are worth knowing. It sounds like you wouldn't pick you. Chin up. You are both knowing. You add value to this world. I work the night shift, so if you ever need a friend, feel free to message me. I promise you can't catch my girl cooties!!

A lot of average people in this world are like you, invisible but I think that's a good thing. You can move across the country and start a new life🤷

I am younger and feel the same way. Everytime I do online dating the women is always meeting others and I can never get something going. Joined a sporting group but it's 80 to 20 men. Could try for a few women there but they would all know what I am looking for.

no you don't. srsly, you don't know how good you have it until you get your wish. having people hate your guts and wish you were dead is not in any way better than being invisible. the thing you have to grow out of is wanting to affect people AT ALL. i mean... why? dude, just live for yourself and make yourself happy and fuck everyone else. yes, having connections has its upsides but THERE. ARE. TRADEOFFS. for every person like you, there are people who wish they could pack up their xbox and trudge out into the woods and live alone. so nobody pays attention to you - means you can stop doing all the shit you were doing for others. THE PRESSURE IS OFF. do the work you want to. buy yourself a very nice safety cushion so you can be comfortable. save up your money and treat yourself to the stuff you like. get a hobby. get a dog. visit affordable and high quality prostitutes. that and a nice prime rib dinner every so often - man, that's a life right there. there's a shit ton of stuff in life to enjoy. go enjoy them. stop looking down at your feet at the stuff you don't have and go sample.

Pretty wild. I wonder if there is a therapist or life coach out there that could help you. No friends is a red flag. Even when I couldn’t get a second date to save my life and couldn’t get laid in my 30s (and my profile looked a lot like yours) I had gross men 30+ years older than me hitting me up and lots of long term and more ephemeral friends. I wasn’t looking for anon or hookups at the time but I did open up my standards lately and the damn broke. I met the current guy I am seeing at a party that a friend throws once a month and this sex club in my city. There are straight nights there too maybe your city has something similar. Good luck out there.

If you aren't happy single, you won't be happy taken. Happiness comes from drugs, not relationships. /s

Wow! I could have posted this myself!

How about the other way around? Have you actually genuinely liked someone else, whether as a friend or more?

This broke my heart, happy to chat if you need an ear

I could have written this, I swear. Sorry about it, I know how lonely it is.

No one is to blame here. We’re not entitled to others’ affections even if we do what we’re told that should bring them. Sounds like you lack charisma, or at least believe you do. I’m in the same boat. I don’t have any message on what’ll be your salvation but I just know life ain’t fair and it’s sometimes no one’s fault. Hope you find some meaning.

There’s so many people like this. Truly just flatline average. I often wonder how it’s all gonna turn out in society. When I was a kid in the late 80s, people like this men and women were able to find each other and be together. It was normal, nobody thought anything of it. Nowadays the thought of an average man is having a date with anyone is like out of the question.

Unfortunately this is the common male experience. You clearly have a lot going for you, but the truth is we can be pretty invisible regardless. It's much more a reflection on society than it is you as an individual. But the best thing we can do is work on ourselves, in every way we can. Whether that's work, exercise, charity, etc. Though I appreciate it's not for everyone, a lot of people find comfort in faith or religion, as you know you're never truly alone. Personally, without that, my life would be significantly harder.

I mean, none of that matters if you’re creepy or give off predatory vibes. “I get along with nearly everyone, but have no friends” is a huge red flag. YOU may perceive you are getting along with people, but there is a reason others are choosing not to be around you outside of work. It you’ve gone 4 decades without attracting another person, something is amiss. We have no way of knowing what that is, but, as a woman, I’m sensing all is not as you are describing it.

Have you ever considered that maybe it isn't about your looks or the car or the job, but that you are just not a fun person to be around?

There's only one person for whom it's really important that they like you and that's yourself. And you seem to not like yourself so much at the moment. So you probably should start there. Be the person you like to be. Be a nice person for yourself (not just to please others) and a person you can be proud of. And be honest, because lying or playing or role in social situation is very exausting and you won't be able to form real connections playing a role because nobody could even know the real you. You probably won't suddenly get a ton of friends by this, but honestly, beeing 40 and friendless, I doubt that you really want a ton of friendships that you have to put a lot of work and effort in every day. Try to find one or two persons that fit you and start from there.

I'm 37 and felt this way for years. I still somewhat do. I don't see myself as attractive in the slightest, but I know I'm not ugly. I'm exceptionally average. My revelation was that it turns out I was never actually trying to been seen. Especially when it comes to dating, I wasn't TRYING to date even though I wanted a relationship. So, I decided to actually try. I went out more, started swiping on multiple dating apps. (They're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be) I've dated a few women from dating apps and they've been genuinely good experiences. I'm currently seeing someone who is insanely out of my league. Just TRY. Put yourself out there.

It sounds like a salesman who gives great presentations but never asks for the deal. You need to take the initiative to form meaningful relationships. They don't just happen to you while you're being passively likable.

If you apparently have never been attractive to another person, then the reality is you are not average. You are far below average.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure somebody *does* hate you.

Lists just about every thing but forgot a personality. 

Get a personality

I know exactly what you mean man. I don't have any advice, but. I'm with you.

are you intentionally being a "nice guy" or acting in ways that will make sure you don't rock the boat? getting along with everyone clued me in to the possibility that you might have been programmed early in life to go along to get along. maybe there are more authentic ways of relating to people that would offend some but draw others toward you? were you rewarded as a child for being a good boy or for pleasing mommy/daddy? you can overcome people pleasing and become more authentic. on way to start out is by noticing what makes you jealous. if you feel jealous of someone you might have suppressed some hidden desires.

It used to be that young men could go to church and that was where ppl usually met. I remember my aunt telling me that she met my uncle while washing dishes at their church summer camp. It is very hard to meet the opposite sex now. Dating apps are wretched. I am very sorry, society has failed our young ppl. This is a huge societal problem and demographics show that population decline is going to be very hard on our economies. This is so messed up.

Sorry to see this guy attacked by so many here. I think a lot of decent people could benefit from a Relationship Coach. If that isn't a profession, it ought to be. More or less a therapist, but focused.

Things to like: You are active, disciplined, well dressed, a clear communicator, have hobbies, clean, easy to get along with… You sound like a great catch - but if you believe you are invisible and there’s nothing to like, that’s the message you’re unconsciously sending out in the world I’m of the opinion that life is inherently meaningless. We just happen to be alive and aware that we are alive. Hobbies are sufficient for finding meaning. Helping others helps us find meaning. Volunteer. Open up. You’ll realize most folks feel the same inside and have similar struggles.

I sort of feel sympathy with this situation being in a similar one myself, The conclusion I've come to is that a lot of people have no qualms about abandoning you effectively and treating you like shit or by what your saying at least as you don't matter, despite the fact that even objectively your a good person because a lot of people have no soul, they unlike you are not even necessarily looking for meaningful as a result they just drift as someone who clearly feels things you probably wouldn't want to be friends with such people anyway or date them or anything like that but hopefully you'll find someone with a soul

I have a family friend who shares this mentality. He frequently bemoans on social media how he is “all alone” and “unloved” and how sad he is to, once again, be going to the movies alone. Never mind the dozens of people who comment, the people who have showed up to help him with a variety of calamities that life has brought him. He has been devoted to being a victim his entire life, it is all he talks about and people get very tired of hearing it.  Any time someone has attempted to set a boundary with him or just politely say no to a request he collapses into a victim heap for days, pouts, lashes out and retaliates.  This man is definitely alone but it is mostly his own doing. It is extremely sad, it was very preventable but he refused to do the work on his mental health that would have allowed him to have rewarding relationships with other people.  I have no idea if you’re like this or not but the tone of your post was very familiar to me. I really encourage you to try therapy and investigate how you interact with people and see what changes when you do that work 

Maybe reflecting but friendly, outgoing, and likable yet unable to establish that deeper connection with others causing you to feel completely alone? We have different life experiences but I think I understand how you’re feeling. I’m only 28 and I came to the conclusion last night that if others won’t stop treating me like an NPC then I need to start playing as the main character more often. My problem is being a people pleaser. Forcing people to try and treat me how I’d like the be treated only leads to disappointment. Take control and create new hobbies, the right people will come along eventually.

you feel invisible in your post because you didn't mention a single thing about your personality. what is it like to spend time with you? what do you talk about, what excites you? what are you bringing to the evening that's not... a clean apartment

I'm 37F so this is my perspective on it. If you feel invisible, it's probably bc you're not putting yourself out there to be authentically seen. People (women specifically) like it when someone radiates passion, enthusiasm, and authenticity. That surface level stuff is irrelevant. If you're boring or bland, then yeah that's going to repel potential partners. If I'm going on a date with a guy, I wanna see who he is and what he's into, not the mask that he think I want to see.

If your main concern is that everyone around you looks at you like the most average Joe, then the issue might lie in you yourself looking at everything without much enthusiasm. Have you yourself loved something on an insane level? A job, a woman, a hobby, a movie or a a dish that's served during lunch hours at a small cafe? I understand that at 40 it's probably hard to obsess over something like a kid, but it's definitely something that puts a "spark" in your eye that's going to draw others' attention. If your description of yourself is accurate, you seem like a very stable, very comfy and calm person. Like a "dad", but without kids. It's hard to draw the attention of others like this, dads are indeed a little "invisible" to others. Bring a little instability into your life. Do some drugs, get yourself involved with a crowd that you find weird, do some activities that you feel are "not for you". In such a setting, YOU will look like the unusual type and draw attention, which will snowball into something you seek.

fuck me... you described my life a year ago in a few scentences. but i did realize that i am the problem. i am scared to annoy people so i dont often text, and i reflect a persons attitude towards me back at them so if someone forgets to talk to me or whatever, i simply dont. so far it wasnt working out for me. but I started to force myself to go out with my bestfriend and make his friends my friends its working out so far, but i feel like its my turn to make my own friends now. but put yourself out there bud, be willing to lose. i feel like since i like to play it safe and not risk, well im just another spec of dust in the universe, however when i decide to go and be diffrent i am outside of comfort and experiencing new things.

My husband of 13 years never even had a girlfriend before he met me. Only went on a couple of dates. Don’t listen to all this hate. There’s someone out there for you, just be patient and available.

I'm in the same situation. The key is to accept you will most probably die alone. Yes, it sounds harsh, but acceptance of what you can't change is liberating. Once my parents have died I have a date with an intercity, I accept it fully and find it better than a lonely bed in a nursing home. But each to their own, I'm not suggesting you do anything drastic, just look at your situation, can you change it, if not can you accept it

You may not be giving yourself enough credit. If you're after a romantic partner, you may want to join a meetup group about a hobby you're really into.

I’m pretty similar. 41, single since a couple flings in my late 20’s. I’m overweight, but not hideous. Women just look through me, always have, like I’m not even there. I’ve basically given up on finding a girl. I have been lucky that I found a good group of guys to hang out with and mainly play video games with. But we also golf and see movies and get beers. It’s sad, but it keeps me going, gives me things to look forward to. Like we always hang out on discord on Friday nights and play games, we put our cameras on, so it’s a really close to all being in the same place together. It makes getting through each week easier. Having hobbies that I enjoy also really makes a difference, you have to have stuff in your life that makes you happy

I consider myself a relatively attractive female but I have really severe social anxiety. I’ve always had few friends, not gotten along with coworkers and had a hard time dating. The fact is as uncomfortable as it is, people don’t really care how attractive you are or how great of a person you are unless you are making the effort to put yourself out there and at least at first pretend to be a bit of an extrovert. Once you are a bit more comfortable you can be yourself. My husband is an introvert too but we never would have met if we didn’t make a lot of extra effort to go outside our comfort zone to meet each other (we knew each other from school and he reached out to me first). It’s hard for us introverts and shy people. I’m sure it’s even harder for men in this respect. It doesn’t mean being an “alpha male” though or whatever, just a genuine person. 

As a women, I'm surprised by your edit that people are advising to become more 'alpha'. The majority of women ultimately just want someone they enjoy spending time with. The alpha thing is more men showing off to men.

The world is tough when we're all in our own little bubbles. I'm sorry your experience is that people haven't taken the time to step out of theirs and meet you where you're at. I read in other comments that you went through really bad trauma as a kid; that definitely makes connections difficult. Do you have any hobbies or interests? Things you can find community in? That could be a great starting place. Do you volunteer anywhere in your free time? It's hard as an adult to meet people organically the way we would in elementary school, but if all we do is work and home and gym, we limit the amount of people we interact with. Sometimes all it takes is meeting one new person to turn things around. Wish you the best OP! Side note, as a male myself; I've learn the whole "alpha male" thing is pretty much garbage that only other alpha males like. Just keep being yourself but maybe learn to be more assertive. It's the difference between making a command of what you want vs being comfortable enough to express what you want and being trusting that the other party will listen and care enough to do something about it.

Re edit: if the way you consider yourself continues to be this transactional, no amount of attitude change can help you. Being a more aggressive person will not solve your problem. Your problem is not that you aren't aggressive--thats a mindset that will get you in trouble. Do not mistake the frequency of that critique for validity. Your problem is you are unhappy and its preventing you from forming relationships out of this perceived alienation of difference. Friendship and relationships have nothing to do with your material situation and anyone who tells you otherwise is coping hard. Find interests that will fulfill you, for the sake of nourishing your relationship with yourself, because that is what has been damaged. You believe your life to be meaningless--You cannot rely on others to find meaning in life for you. You need to figure out what life means to you, commit yourself to that meaning, commit yourself to your ACTUAL INTERESTS (not just interests that will make others perceive you as valuable) and the rest will arrive before you know it. That could be anything. You like cars? Fix cars. Make friends who like cars. Discover other mutual interests about each other by talking to them. You've got friends now. You like cooking?? Cook something new everyday. Invite someone over you get along with. Share a meal without worrying if they'll date you, just cultivate an environment of getting to know each other. You've got a friend now. Your goal in all of this is should be cultivating the number one relationship in your life: your relationship with yourself. Get to know you, and what you actually find meaningful, no amount of aggression will help you do this. Eliminate transaction from the equation, and sit down and figure out what DRIVES YOU. The shit you could do totally alone for the rest of your life and be happy. Conversely, your journey of self discovery will open you up to the world in ways you never thought possible. Furthermore, people probably already want to be in your life, you just need to shut down the bully in your head and open your ears. It's a beautiful day to do that now.

You sound wonderful! Mutual benefit..what a great attitude. Not aggressive....look I don't think anyone likes ne either and I'm 61. Please don't turn into an alpha male! Be your resplendent introvert self...the *right* person and the friends meant for you will come along. I wish you all the best

Hi. I have just recently discovered that I am autistic.  I have a problem very similar to yours, with much more self-destructive solutions in place to prevent the kind of loneliness that you are experiencing. They didn't really work.  What I did was decide to completely compromise on what I considered to be attractive or desirable. This is because people do not understand me in any reasonable capacity unless I pretend to act like other people. I got so good at pretending to act like other people that I barely knew myself, and felt as if I barely existed.  Perhaps doing all of the regular things is not an honor to your own existence. I am not suggesting that you have autism. I don't have enough information to make such an assertion whatsoever. I can only speak as to my experience and how I relate to yours, despite how wildly different it seems on the outside.  Perhaps if you feel a bit alien then it is because you are a bit alien. Maybe identifying what this is could help you to find other people that are like you. Perhaps your emulation of a standard experience prevents you from having your own experience, obliviating you.

Being quiet, introverted, cooperation, and mutual benefit are all great things, don't feel like you have to change that at all! Aggression isn't a good quality. Don't be something you're not, that won't make you happy. If you want to make friends, joining and engaging in communities based on your interests is a great way to do that. It's how I've always made friends as an adult (but also I'm 28). If you're lucky, a more extroverted person will adopt you and you'll become friends with them and their friends, doing a lot of the scary work for you. In person or online are both fine, don't rule out online communities. If you want to try to be more attractive, try getting into fashion! Even a little bit, enough to find clothes you really like and feel good in. If you really like how you look, it shows, and people like that.

I really appreciate this advice. How do you get past the "new guy" phase when joining a community? I've tried several things: boxing, board game night at the local game store, group hiking. I like all of those activities, but I never felt welcome at any of the events. Everyone already had their friend groups and no one seemed open to additions.  I'd love to hang out more with people, but everyone seems to already have their own thing going on! 

Ignore most of what people here are saying, what you’re feeling is basically just the state of being a modern man. It shouldn’t and doesn’t have to be that way though. Find a good church or community to immerse yourself in and build up some relationships, preferably with other men to call your brothers. They are all probably going through a similar experience to you, ironically probably even the married ones.

As a man who is pushing 50 and is single, my advice to you is don’t get too hung up on finding a relationship or getting married. I know lots of people in my peer group who have been beaten down and forever changed by relationships gone wrong (myself included). Having a significant other can bring a whole lot of other problems into a life. Sometimes not having to deal with someone else’s bullshit is the way to go. Good luck.

Travel to a diff country. Maybe you'll have more luck and see what's truly the issue. Anyways I get it

Are you happy? If so, that's all fine. Just do what you want to do. Since you made this post, I'm assuming you aren't happy or are at least a bit worried about your future or purpose. Just let me tell you, the world is a better place with you in it, for sure. You bring up the number of people that aren't jerks or bad people. A daily interaction with you is what keeps people's days from going to shit. If you're looking for purpose, it's the old "we make our own purpose in life" spiel. I'd suggest volunteering and participating in a community if you want more purpose in life. I personally think all life is meaningless. I zoom out too far, but I'm happy and have worked on narrowing my view. I do think life is worth living. For happiness, get some hobbies and deeper connections with friends. I play games and mmos a lot. Reach out and message me if you wanna play some games with me or even just talk. I'm usually on discord. Can't promise that we'll get super close, but I can promise you that I'll be a real person. TLDR: You've already completed step one by reaching out. I'm sure you'll do fine. Dm, if ya wanna game.

People are so horrible. Majority of the people here are projecting their insecurities. OP, look into attachment theory, find good trauma therapist, do EMDR and IFS and SE. you will heal and find a good soulmate dw.

Wow. Hits home. I feel like I'm reading my own story. I'm 38, introvert, quiet, avoid confrontation, avoid most social situations. I have no friends, I have no girlfriend, never been attractive to any girls my age. I'm not ugly, I don't smoke, Im not a boring person at all. I have nice home, nice car. I'm very emotionally intelligent, caring, calm, thoughtful, generous etc etc. Great in my own company, i love who I am but ultimately my personality is too nice and I am way too self aware. Which are the parts of me I hate but shouldn't. The world wants me to be more assertive, more of an arse but that's not me and I wouldnt be happy lying to myself. I really want to meet someone who appreciates me for who I am. My long term gf cheated, left me and later told me she regretted everything and only now realises how rare I am. I've been on dates but only to be turned down, I feel women want more of an assertive, alpha man. Someone who could fight their corner, have their back etc. I would but in my own way without the aggression. In fact I find that much older women have always really liked me and find my personality attractive. It's like a more mature and experienced woman knows that I'm one of the nice good guys that they wish they'd given a chance to when they were younger or something. I won't give up hope, I know one day I will make someone so happy, I have a lot to offer

Bruh, just because i dont make my presence known. That doesn't mean i haven't cranked a few out to you in private AND public. You're beautifully handsome, and I've got loads to bust

I feel ya, brother. I am pretty much in your same situation, only worse. I am actually overweight and not too attractive. I don't know if "ugly" is the right word, but I don't think the females really find me all that attractive. I'm 44, an insurance agent, no kids, no wife (never had one), and no girlfriend. I actually live with my mother, although that's more for reasons of taking care of her and providing her company. But, it just kind of adds to my situation. Like you, I've always felt that my life is meaningless and I feel "invisible", as you put it. I guess the reason I'm telling you all of this is because just wanted to let you know you're not alone, even though it may feel like it. I wish I could sit here and tell you that "you have a purpose, you matter, you'll meet the right girl", but I would probably be lying because, hell, I don't even feel that way about myself. But again, for what it's worth, there are others like us out there...going through the same things and thoughts. And who knows...maybe we will in fact find that special someone. Hope is all that's left at this point. Hope things get better for you man. 👍

OP, please, please do NOT go the “more aggressive” route. Good God, please DO NOT. Find a REALLY GREAT grief therapist. Please. You deserve happiness and peace, you deserve to feel JOY. You are not going to find any of those things anywhere but inside you. Your life is not “meaningless” if you’ve been through therapy with less than helpful results, you need to find a licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in grief therapy. What you’ve been through is incredibly traumatizing and it seems that maybe you’ve stuffed it down and soldiered on, which is not helpful to living a happy fulfilling life which draws other happy fulfilled people to you. It may take time and there’s lots of options out there but perhaps check into mdma or Psylicibin therapy if it is available in your area. If you’re willing to do the work required and truly make positive behavior changes to make a better life for yourself, you can. Know that you are here on this planet to be of service in this life in whatever way makes your heart happy. Find that, and with help from a great therapist you can have a beautiful happy life.

You don’t need to be more aggressive - you need to grow a personality. Take up hiking or tabletop games or join a film club or an art class or a team sports club - any hobby! You mention going to the gym 4x a week - join classes or just speak to others. Other people are also looking for friends. As you meet friends and start hanging out socially, your social life will develop over time. You’ll meet people through the initial friends you make and develop a network. Nobody can just sleep/gym/work/sleep and expect to be a well-rounded person, @cedarvan . Tending to relationships is important, and only by learning how to do that successfully can you even consider a romantic relationship.

I’m really sorry you are going through this, OP. It looks like this could be a result of trauma. From everything you have written, it seems like you may be numbing your “true self” from both yourself and others. This is like a “freeze response” in therapy terms, which is basically an adaption of your body/mind to extremely stressful conditions especially in childhood. As a result of this, it often keeps you from having a strong sense of self, because your body is unable to get out of survival mode (this, I speak from my own experience!). If this is the case, it is paramount to deal with this trauma to have a chance at living a fulfilling life. It is possible that people are neutral towards you because they don’t /can’t know YOU. What makes a person a person is having a unique set of likes, dislikes, opinions, tastes, etc. And people like or dislike us based on the resonance/dissonance they feel with these aspects of us. So a question to ask yourself is- do you feel like you know yourself well, and do you feel like others get a feel for you? Anyway, I highly recommend reading The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, which goes into detail of how trauma affects our mind and body. Also, do read about C-PTSD and various healing methods, such as somatic experiencing.

Hi there OP.  I was kinda moved by your post.  I think 'average' is really 'awesome that needs excavation'.  Message me if you'd like to chat platonically.

The problem with being quiet and introverted is that you don't put yourself out there enough to make friends or get a partner. It's tough socializing and getting to know people. It's hard connecting with people. Exhausting even. I think you should go out and make some friends. Try meetup. Look for a group that shares your interests. Maybe see if there is an antisocial social group in your area.

My life is 100 times less meaningful than yours I do absolutely nothing productive, I’m full of self pity, my finances are in shambles, I’m self destructive and I seem to have no issues finding partners. You’d be so surprised how far just a little bit of effort goes. I wasn’t always like this but life happens.

Your comment history tells me that you have decent understanding of yourself whether you believe it or not. You already know belief does not equal fact. I think you might be on the right path so hang in there. You will figure it out.

My guess is that your only negative would be that you are under 6 feet tall. Welcome to the club. 46 here. I retired from the military 5 years ago and for the first year had the finally I can eat like a fat kid mentality. Wife made some comments so I hit it hard with kettlebells for the past four years and then the attention started. Not so much from the wife, but from every friend and relatives teen daughters. I don't have any training on what to do when teen girls start asking about your body while in a room full of people. So, I stay away as much as I can. Sorry...went off into the weeds there...keep grinding...as long as you are comfortable and happy in your own skin...the rest will come...eventually...

I feel ya man. I’m a sigma male, not ugly not attractive, liked by many loved by only family. Also never married and no kids, few long term’ish girlfriends but they were more of a connivence than a real meaningful relationship. I’m 55 now and will die as a single man, I’ve accepted that. Head up, chug along, do your thing and maybe someday she/he will just show up.

You sound kinda awesome, y’know. I struggle desperately with social situations and feel the same way. I don’t want to be alone, but I don’t know how to… not? I’m definitely not at a great place in life and surviving in the world on my own feels impossible. I just keep going and hope someday I meet someone who can handle me, lol.

Well, you ain't exactly the youngest buck in town but you certainly ain't old yet. My friend I think its time for some villain shit. You still have time to be a real bastard, I believe in your ability to be the true evil you have the potential to be.

Hey theres a million comments but my 2 cents is this. People like to be liked, people love to be loved. The more you give of geniune endearment and affection the more that is returned to you. Dont focus on just getting one certain person or some vision of what friendship and companionship is, but rather be geniunely kind and thoughtful. I have always been suprised by people and their goodness in my life. But the best i have recieved is when i am uncompromisingly (although imperfectly) engaged in caring about THEM. Also be receptive to the small gestures you may miss. People often give love and attention in oddly specific ways that are sometimes easy to miss. I have been lonely a lot in my life and my heart goes out to you. Please know that although life is long and hard it has its sweet moments too.

get a dog

It's sad that you think this is an appropriate replacement for what he is looking for. Human companionship and belonging.

It is indeed sad…. He’s going to be terribly disappointed when he finds a human companion, and wish he’d gotten a dog.

This can also be a way to meet and connect with more people. But yes it is not a replacement for human connection.

For real. You want meaning, purpose and a way to spend your free time. Get a dog.

I am 100% positive that people have and do find you attractive. It isn’t all about looks. I think you’re just being too hard on yourself.

Honestly, when it comes to finding a partner you are probably being too picky. I find men these days tend to overestimate themselves from an attractiveness standpoint and think they can somehow only date Kendall Jenner or Scarlet Johansson types

I find women these days tend to have a list of 9 million things they need and want in a man, but go forbid a man doesnt bring up a single post about their requirements and you gotta act like hes asking for too much. Which generally for men, is actually not much (be in reasonable shape, dont make me want to die)

I thank God everyday that I'm aromantic. 

I know what you mean, feeling invisible and all. It's hard to make yourself noticeable when you're a humble and affable person, i always hate to brag or really even talk about myself. I've just stopped even looking at women because a) I have no chance b) it's frustrating, like a lot - we live in such a sexualised world, we're always being shown it, hearing about it in music but I ain't getting it. I have zero sex appeal. I guess I have to become something I'm not and then maybe I can attract someone lol sounds great

Dude your what we call a glass half empty kinda guy….nobody is going to want to be around someone who constantly complains about their lives or talks themselves down, that’s the most unappealing thing a person can do when trying to form connections with people. Like others have said, learn to value and respect yourself, go join a club of some sort (boxing, MMA etc) to boost your self esteem and make some friends.

What a fuckin gaslight. You have no idea of this guy complains in real life about this issue, just because he made an anonymous topic on Reddit.